Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote

>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>
> Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe?
> Have to make up for the cheap plans?

I don't see anything from Joerg but I do see Alan Brown's posts where I pay
about $25 a month per line for unlimited everything in the USA on T-Mobile.
<https://i.postimg.cc/L6dFGXVd/tmopromo03.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees
Note: Two of those lines are free for life, but Apple bricked one iPad.

How much does unlimited everything typically cost in Europe & in the UK?

In uk.telecom.mobile Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote
>
> >> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
> >> what they are in Europe or Asia.
> >
> > Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe?
> > Have to make up for the cheap plans?
>
> I don't see anything from Joerg but I do see Alan Brown's posts where I pay
> about $25 a month per line for unlimited everything in the USA on T-Mobile.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/L6dFGXVd/tmopromo03.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees
> Note: Two of those lines are free for life, but Apple bricked one iPad.
>
> How much does unlimited everything typically cost in Europe & in the UK?

For the UK: £16 a month, with a £30 gift card and a 50% discount for the
first 3 months, 12 month contract, on iD Mobile, free roaming in 50
countries including EU. Works out to be £11.50/month.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheap-mobile-finder/sim-only/

For 100GB it's £10/month on the same deal (£20 gift card), working out to be
£7.09/month on average.

We don't tend to do multi-line contracts (they exist, but they aren't
necessarily cheaper)

MMS on iD mobile is 55p per message, and not included in 'unlimited' deals.
On Vodafone MMS is 62p, on O2 and Three it's 65p.

I don't think any operator includes MMS. Nobody uses it.

Theo

In misc.phone.mobile.iphone Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
....
> Note: Two of those lines are free for life, but Apple bricked one iPad.

Apple bricked iPad? How so? They couldn't recover it?
--
"When you are harvesting in your field and you overlook a sheaf, do not go back to get it. Leave it for the alien, the fatherless and the widow, so that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands." --Deuteronomy 24:19. More ????s, bugs, updates, lack of QA, delays, bodies, colony, no haircut, etc. again! RIP & GG, E3.
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Theo wrote:

> wrote:
>
>> How much does unlimited everything typically cost in Europe & in the UK?
>
> For the UK: £16 a month, with a £30 gift card and a 50% discount for the
> first 3 months, 12 month contract, on iD Mobile, free roaming in 50
> countries including EU. Works out to be £11.50/month.
> https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheap-mobile-finder/sim-only/

Another datapoint :-

O2, unlimited minutes to landline/mobile numbers, unlimited SMS, 20GB
data, roaming within 40 european countries, £8.20/month, was originally
an 18 month contract, now past the minimum term, annual inflation+3.9%
increase.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Theo wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> How much does unlimited everything typically cost in Europe & in the UK?
>>
>> For the UK: £16 a month, with a £30 gift card and a 50% discount for the
>> first 3 months, 12 month contract, on iD Mobile, free roaming in 50
>> countries including EU. Works out to be £11.50/month.
>> https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheap-mobile-finder/sim-only/
>
> Another datapoint :-
>
> O2, unlimited minutes to landline/mobile numbers, unlimited SMS, 20GB
> data, roaming within 40 european countries, £8.20/month, was originally
> an 18 month contract, now past the minimum term, annual inflation+3.9%
> increase.
>
>
>

Without any offers, a Vodafone unlimited contract is 33 pounds per month.

On 2023-12-13, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> In misc.phone.mobile.iphone Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> ...
>> Note: Two of those lines are free for life, but Apple bricked one
>> iPad.
>
> Apple bricked iPad? How so? They couldn't recover it?

You haven't been paying attention (which is unfortunately common for you
here). Arlen logged into iCloud on his iPad, then forgot his credentials
(which he admits were made up in the name of "privacy"), then refused to
recover his account when the server asked him to verify his credentials,
and then turned around and blamed Apple for his stupidity.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 13 Dec 2023 11:13:41 -0400 Wally J wrote:
>Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote
>
>>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>>
>> Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe?
>> Have to make up for the cheap plans?
>
>I don't see anything from Joerg but I do see Alan Brown's posts where I pay
>about $25 a month per line for unlimited everything in the USA on T-Mobile.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/L6dFGXVd/tmopromo03.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees
> Note: Two of those lines are free for life, but Apple bricked one iPad.
>
>How much does unlimited everything typically cost in Europe & in the UK

Here's the answer I gave in to that the other thread:

Here in the UK there is keen competition on price, wide network coverage,
and it's easy to swap mobile supplier and port your phone number. The
standard competitive offering these days is a SIM-only rolling monthly
contract with unlimited voice calls and SMSs and varying amounts of data:
typicaly £10/month upwards but can be half that for small amounts of
data. To my knowledge MMSs are always extra - a quick google suggests
£0.5 per MMS is typical. Few people use them so there's no incentive to
include them and every incentive to charge a lot for them.

I think the unpopularity of MMSs is historical, predating smartphones and
the rise of mobile data. Kids sent huge numbers of SMSs, and we adults
used them quite a lot, so operators offered ever higher numbers of them
'free'. MMS never caught on - probably because the experience on a tiny
display was so poor. With smartphones the number of SMSs has declined
drastically, so they're free.

Soon after smartphones appeared, there was WhatsApp! Everybody - apart
from all-iPhone families - had WA and knew that, for sharing photos and
videos, that's what you used. (This was back in the days of Android 4.)

I can't speak knowledgeably about 'Europe' as a whole but for countries
I've had SIMs for, it seemed the same.

To which I would add:
'Unlimited' in the UK means voice calls, 'texts', and mobile data. I don't
think it includes MMSs. (I doubt if it includes 3g Video Calls either -
30p/min on my giffgaff!)

--
(Remove numerics from email address)

Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote

>> Note: Two of those lines are free for life, but Apple bricked one iPad.
>
> Apple bricked iPad? How so? They couldn't recover it?

Hi Ant,

Remember that only Apple requires you to log into their servers in order
for your device to continue to function - or Apple will brick that device.
<https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg> Apple _disables_ the device!

Yes, Apple unilaterally bricks your iOS device.

Try what I tried.
Three times.
Three different devices.

Same end result.

I ran the experiment on three different iPads - all with the same result
(bear in mind I know the AppleID/password so that's NOT the problem here).
<https://i.postimg.cc/nrFHSvby/appleid11.jpg> Apple _forces_ extra logins!

If you refuse to constantly log into your Apple accounts (there are
multiple accounts so it's not just one even though they're all the same
login/password), Apple will brick your iOS device rendering it unusable.
<https://i.postimg.cc/7P7NCctS/locked-01.jpg> AppleID is locked by Apple
<https://i.postimg.cc/4dHQQFfk/locked-02.jpg> Password was always good
<https://i.postimg.cc/vTdfLY2f/locked-03.jpg> Apple wants a gov license!!!
<https://i.postimg.cc/rpmJKw7p/locked-04.jpg> Then, iCloud works again
<https://i.postimg.cc/rwyGPpV9/locked-05.jpg> Then, Messages works again

You probably don't get your iOS device bricked because you log in again
(and again, and again, etc. ad infinitum) every time Apple asks you to.
<https://i.postimg.cc/9fPjQpr3/nag01.jpg> 3 iOS nag items
<https://i.postimg.cc/wxwgN0Fg/nag02.jpg> 2 iOS nag items
<https://i.postimg.cc/3NVqB4dC/nag03.jpg> 1 Update Apple ID settings

Notice I never changed the login/password but I refused to log in every day
of my life - and after two years - on three iPads - Apple bricked each one.

I did this on purpose, of course, just as I refuse to create an account on
Android - but Google doesn't brick your Android device if you don't log in.
<https://i.postimg.cc/NG5pHyBx/aurora10.jpg> No need for a Google Account

What happens if you refuse to constantly log into Apple's servers is Apple
will lock your Apple ID and they will not let you back in until you prove
to Apple who you are in person using your government issued ID.

Then they'll unlock your device (see above) and your original
login/password will work again - but the same thing will happen over & over
(you don't notice it because you constantly log into Apple servers, Ant).
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg> Apple _locks_ you out!

The point here is that the "walled garden" stops working the instant you
decide not to play Apple's game of constantly logging into their servers.
--
The beauty of Usenet is you learn from the experience of others.

On 2023-12-13 18:04, Wally J wrote:
> Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote
>
>>> Note: Two of those lines are free for life, but Apple bricked one iPad.
>>
>> Apple bricked iPad? How so? They couldn't recover it?
>
> Hi Ant,
>
> Remember that only Apple requires you to log into their servers in order
> for your device to continue to function - or Apple will brick that device.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg> Apple _disables_ the device!

False.

>
> Yes, Apple unilaterally bricks your iOS device.

False.

>
> Try what I tried.
> Three times.
> Three different devices.
>
> Same end result.
>
> I ran the experiment on three different iPads - all with the same result
> (bear in mind I know the AppleID/password so that's NOT the problem here).
> <https://i.postimg.cc/nrFHSvby/appleid11.jpg> Apple _forces_ extra logins!

You're not telling the whole story...

....liar.

"Unlimited" is always going to be subject to a FUP.

That is why when you stay in some airb&b, you find the wifi probably
blocks

- SMTP
- VPN
- VOIP

and whatever other ports... About 10 years ago I set up a terminator
for a port 443 Softether VPN for exactly this purpose.

They don't want somebody to be up/downloading 100GB of movies or
whatever.

So the real answer depends on why somebody wants this...

Postman Pat <at@the-post-office-not.com> wrote

> "Unlimited" is always going to be subject to a FUP.

Agree that "unlimited" never means unrestricted... in so much as...

I'm a creature of detail, so I am aware what "unlimited" means
for my specific account - but I'm not sure what others mean by it.
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg>

My $25/month unlimited plan, as far as I'm aware, means to T-Mobile USA
- Unlimited free phone calls to/from USA to/from USA numbers
- Unlimited free SMS messaging (also both ways)
- Unlimited free MMS messaging (also both ways)
- Unlimited free high speed data (also both ways, see caveat)
- Unlimited free roaming (I'm not sure if that's for data or phone though)
- 5GB/month free hotspot/tethering (also both ways)

Plus I have two SIM-enabled iPads which have 200MB/month for life
(while both were bricked, I proved to Apple I bought one of them,
so at the moment, only one of those two SIM-enabled iPads is still
bricked by Apple for me not having logged into Apple servers frequently).

Note: I've _never_ needed to create a mothership account on my Android
where I can do anything I want given there are plenty of FOSS apps to
replace Google app functionality such as the FOSS Google Play Store app and
the FOSS Google YouTube app and the FOSS Ungoogled Chromium app, etc.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Bnyr9fP1/account01.jpg> Works better w/o Google

In fact, just as a Windows PC works better with iOS without iTunes, an
Android phone works better when you don't create any accounts on it.
<https://i.postimg.cc/fRtZFGSt/sharepod01.jpg>

The caveat is that T-Mobile reserves the right to limit the high-speed data
to 50GB per month per tower if the tower is considered a congested tower.

In that case, the data does NOT turn off but drops to lower speeds
(perhaps unusably so - as I've never gotten anywhere close to 50GB).

My plan used to be much less than $25/month/line but I added "Simple
Global" to all the lines because we visit Germany frequently.

The Simple Global plan includes (as I recall):
- Free data (not guaranteed to be high speed) while in most of Europe
- Phone calls from Europe to USA for twenty five cents (USD) per minute
- Unlimited free roaming (I'm not sure if that's for data or phone though)
- The 200MB/month for the iPads does NOT work while in Europe (too bad)

In addition, for years now (AFAIK) T-Mobile will give any postpaid USA
customer a free 5G Android phone (mine are the Galaxy A32-5G) per line,
where I've gotten five of them so far (3+2 returns under warranty).
<https://i.postimg.cc/Xq5SpS4D/tmopromo02.jpg>

I also picked up an iPhone from them but it was only at half price
(with a trade-in) so the Android phones are a much better deal overall.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YC1B906F/tmopromo01.jpg> A32-5G & iPhone 12 contract

Where you can see in those screenshots that T-Mobile breaks the discount
into 24 monthly chunks, meaning you have to pay what's remaining if you
leave T-Mobile (as far as I know, T-Mobile doesn't do "contracts" per se).

You can leave anytime - and if you do, you simply pay what part of the
phone is left that wasn't already discounted due to your monthly credits.

The only cost for the free Android phone is the up-front sales tax (which
is $0 in some red states but in my very blue California, it's 10% of MSRP).

Other than the sales tax and the fact there's a two-year time period for
the free'ness of the phone to be realized, there are no other charges.

Note: I'm well aware the ignorant iKooks _hate_ that Android phones are
free, so they claim there's a cost - but there isn't any change in your
plan costs whether or not you take T-Mobile up on their free Androids.
--
Usenet allows people around the world to compare and contrast their plans.

On 13/12/2023 20:22, Dave Royal wrote:
> On 13 Dec 2023 11:13:41 -0400 Wally J wrote:
>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote
>>
>>>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>>>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>>>
>>> Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe?
>>> Have to make up for the cheap plans?
>>
>> I don't see anything from Joerg but I do see Alan Brown's posts where I pay
>> about $25 a month per line for unlimited everything in the USA on T-Mobile.
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/L6dFGXVd/tmopromo03.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees
>> Note: Two of those lines are free for life, but Apple bricked one iPad.
>>
>> How much does unlimited everything typically cost in Europe & in the UK
>
> Here's the answer I gave in to that the other thread:
>
> Here in the UK there is keen competition on price, wide network coverage,
> and it's easy to swap mobile supplier and port your phone number. The
> standard competitive offering these days is a SIM-only rolling monthly
> contract with unlimited voice calls and SMSs and varying amounts of data:
> typicaly £10/month upwards but can be half that for small amounts of
> data. To my knowledge MMSs are always extra - a quick google suggests
> £0.5 per MMS is typical. Few people use them so there's no incentive to
> include them and every incentive to charge a lot for them.

I'm sure I've used MMS for free on my PAYG Vodafone monthly (£10 for
14GB). For that I also get unlimited calls and texts (it doesn't say
SMS-only for those). Usually, though, I'd attach a photo to an email.

> To which I would add:
> 'Unlimited' in the UK means voice calls, 'texts', and mobile data. I don't
> think it includes MMSs. (I doubt if it includes 3g Video Calls either -
> 30p/min on my giffgaff!)

--

Jeff

On 2023-12-14 18:37, Wally J wrote:
> Postman Pat <at@the-post-office-not.com> wrote
>
>> "Unlimited" is always going to be subject to a FUP.
>
> Agree that "unlimited" never means unrestricted... in so much as...
>
> I'm a creature of detail, so I am aware what "unlimited" means
> for my specific account - but I'm not sure what others mean by it.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg>
>
> My $25/month unlimited plan, as far as I'm aware, means to T-Mobile USA
> - Unlimited free phone calls to/from USA to/from USA numbers
> - Unlimited free SMS messaging (also both ways)
> - Unlimited free MMS messaging (also both ways)
> - Unlimited free high speed data (also both ways, see caveat)
> - Unlimited free roaming (I'm not sure if that's for data or phone though)
> - 5GB/month free hotspot/tethering (also both ways)

When I was this summer in Ottawa, first with T-Mobile, later with
Bell-Canada, I could not phone to Europe. Not included.

The SIM claimed "unlimited", but that was in the USA, in Canada it was 5
gigs.

I don't remember all the details.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2023-12-13 21:22, Dave Royal wrote:
> On 13 Dec 2023 11:13:41 -0400 Wally J wrote:
>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote

....

> To which I would add:
> 'Unlimited' in the UK means voice calls, 'texts', and mobile data. I don't
> think it includes MMSs. (I doubt if it includes 3g Video Calls either -
> 30p/min on my giffgaff!)

You mention "3g Video Calls". I'm curious about those.

When I browse the address book in phones, some times I see the offer of
"video call", and I wondered what were those. I was told they were
expensive.

So that's the name, "3g Video Calls"?

Do you have more information on those, a link perhaps? For curiosity shake.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> wrote:
> On 13 Dec 2023 11:13:41 -0400 Wally J wrote:
> >Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote
> >
> >>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
> >>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
> >>
> >> Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe?
> >> Have to make up for the cheap plans?
> >
> >I don't see anything from Joerg but I do see Alan Brown's posts where I pay
> >about $25 a month per line for unlimited everything in the USA on T-Mobile.
> > <https://i.postimg.cc/L6dFGXVd/tmopromo03.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees
> > Note: Two of those lines are free for life, but Apple bricked one iPad.
> >
> >How much does unlimited everything typically cost in Europe & in the UK
>
> Here's the answer I gave in to that the other thread:
>
> Here in the UK there is keen competition on price, wide network coverage,
> and it's easy to swap mobile supplier and port your phone number. The
> standard competitive offering these days is a SIM-only rolling monthly
> contract with unlimited voice calls and SMSs and varying amounts of data:
> typicaly £10/month upwards but can be half that for small amounts of
> data. To my knowledge MMSs are always extra - a quick google suggests
> £0.5 per MMS is typical. Few people use them so there's no incentive to
> include them and every incentive to charge a lot for them.

Here in The Netherlands, it's probably very similar to the UK.

Just a quick example: Unlimited voice calls and SMSs and 10GB data for
EUR 10/month. Unlimited data plans are quite a bit more expensive, some
EUR 25 for slower speeds and some EUR 30 for high speeds.

So also quite a lot cheaper than Alan Browne's Canadian example
("Amazing. Here (Canada) an unlimited contract with a paltry 3 - 5 GB
of data is on the order of $40+tax/month.").

My EUR 10 (CAD 15) example has twice the data and includes taxes.

So Joerg was 'wrong', in Canada (not the US) the price level isn't
almost double that in Europe, but three times as high! :-)

[...]

On 14 Dec 2023 20:07:44 +0100 Carlos E.R. wrote:
>You mention "3g Video Calls". I'm curious about those.
>
>When I browse the address book in phones, some times I see the offer of
>"video call", and I wondered what were those. I was told they were
>expensive.
>
>So that's the name, "3g Video Calls"?
>
>Do you have more information on those, a link perhaps? For curiosity sake.

I too was curious about video calls when I saw it, along with MMSs under
'extras' in my giffgaff tariff. (It's 50p/minute, not 30p as I said.)

<https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/223908/how-to-enable-3g-video-calls-on-android-smartphone>

I'd forgotten about them. But I had (still have) Nokia phones which will
do this.

I mentioned it as an example, along with MMS, of a near-obsolete
technology ;)

--
(Remove numerics from email address)

On 2023-12-14 21:28, Dave Royal wrote:
> On 14 Dec 2023 20:07:44 +0100 Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> You mention "3g Video Calls". I'm curious about those.
>>
>> When I browse the address book in phones, some times I see the offer of
>> "video call", and I wondered what were those. I was told they were
>> expensive.
>>
>> So that's the name, "3g Video Calls"?
>>
>> Do you have more information on those, a link perhaps? For curiosity sake.
>
> I too was curious about video calls when I saw it, along with MMSs under
> 'extras' in my giffgaff tariff. (It's 50p/minute, not 30p as I said.)
>
>
> <https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/223908/how-to-enable-3g-video-calls-on-android-smartphone>
>
> I'd forgotten about them. But I had (still have) Nokia phones which will
> do this.
>
> I mentioned it as an example, along with MMS, of a near-obsolete
> technology ;)

Thanks, that is very illustrative. Basically, it is an obsolete
technology, running on 3G, which was marked for removal in Europe for
2020..21. I confirm, I had to dump a phone that did not do $g because 3G
died, it would not get internet.

However, when I open my phone book in my Motorola G52 phone, and look
somebody up, running Android 13, it offers:

phone call
SMS
Video
Email
share location

I started a video call. It worked partially, the other phone (A Motorola
G62 5G) refused to do video, but the G52 did display the video after
insisting.

So, what service is it really using?

Phone G52 also displays a small message saying "invite {name} to Google
Meet".

Phone G62 when I tap "video" displays a blacked out menu for a second,
then it is gone. Apparently I have to choose a camera. There is a button
to choose a camera, but tapping it produces the same dark menu for a second.

Meet works, but the working is ridiculous.

I open Meet in both phones. I choose new, select the contact of the
other phone, call, and instead it tells me to send an invite link, over
whatsapp. If I open the link, the videocall starts. Why all that, just
ring the phone and start it if the other side accepts. Silly.

ok, so the "video call" that appears in my contact link is actually
"Google Meet", but I can not actually initiate a video call solely by
tapping on Meet. I have to go the roundabout of "send an invite".

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2023-12-14 13:50, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 13/12/2023 20:22, Dave Royal wrote:
>> On 13 Dec 2023 11:13:41 -0400 Wally J wrote:
>>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote
>>>
>>>>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost
>>>>> double
>>>>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>>>>
>>>> Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe?
>>>> Have to make up for the cheap plans?
>>>
>>> I don't see anything from Joerg but I do see Alan Brown's posts where
>>> I pay
>>> about $25 a month per line for unlimited everything in the USA on
>>> T-Mobile.
>>> <https://i.postimg.cc/L6dFGXVd/tmopromo03.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16
>>> fees
>>> Note: Two of those lines are free for life, but Apple bricked one iPad.
>>>
>>> How much does unlimited everything typically cost in Europe & in the UK
>>
>> Here's the answer I gave in to that the other thread:
>>
>> Here in the UK there is keen competition on price, wide network coverage,
>> and it's easy to swap mobile supplier and port your phone number. The
>> standard competitive offering these days is a SIM-only rolling monthly
>> contract with unlimited voice calls and SMSs and varying amounts of data:
>> typicaly £10/month upwards but can be half that for small amounts of
>> data. To my knowledge MMSs are always extra - a quick google suggests
>> £0.5 per MMS is typical. Few people use them so there's no incentive to
>> include them and every incentive to charge a lot for them.
>
> I'm sure I've used MMS for free on my PAYG Vodafone monthly (£10 for
> 14GB). For that I also get unlimited calls and texts (it doesn't say
> SMS-only for those). Usually, though, I'd attach a photo to an email.

Heresy! If you're not against MMS you're a terrible, terrible person!

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 14/12/2023, Alan Browne wrote:
> Heresy! If you're not against MMS you're a terrible, terrible person!

This is from the guy who said earlier today that any attempt to integrate
the rest of the world with Apple is a direct "attack" on Apple's walled
garden (with respect to Beeper).

For Apple to play nice with Android is just terrible. Absolutely horrible.
According to this person anyway (Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com>).

On 2023-12-14 19:13, Patrick wrote:
> On 14/12/2023, Alan Browne wrote:
>> Heresy!  If you're not against MMS you're a terrible, terrible person!
>
> This is from the guy who said earlier today that any attempt to
> integrate the rest of the world with Apple is a direct "attack" on
> Apple's walled garden (with respect to Beeper).
> For Apple to play nice with Android is just terrible. Absolutely horrible.
> According to this person anyway (Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com>).

I'd like to see those quotes if you don't mind.

On 2023-12-14 22:13, Patrick wrote:
> On 14/12/2023, Alan Browne wrote:
>> Heresy!  If you're not against MMS you're a terrible, terrible person!
>
> This is from the guy who said earlier today that any attempt to
> integrate the rest of the world with Apple is a direct "attack" on
> Apple's walled garden (with respect to Beeper).

1) The post was a reply to someone else.
2) It was humour. Obviously.
3) There is no Apple walled garden. Think of it more as the Apple eco
system or use the "country club" analogy I've provided in other posts.

> For Apple to play nice with Android is just terrible. Absolutely horrible.
> According to this person anyway (Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com>).

Stop casting troll boy. You're just not very good at it.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 14/12/2023 17:37, Wally J wrote:
> - Unlimited free high speed data (also both ways, see caveat)
> - 5GB/month free hotspot/tethering (also both ways)

That sucks.

I think Ofcom have now ruled in the UK that data is data so if you're
allowed X GB to use on your phone you must legally also be allowed to
use any or all of it for tethering.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

On 13.12.23 16:13, Wally J wrote:
> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote
>
>>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>>
>> Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe?
>> Have to make up for the cheap plans?
>
> I don't see anything from Joerg but I do see Alan Brown's posts where I pay
> about $25 a month per line for unlimited everything in the USA on T-Mobile.

Like always you are an evil liar:

My Wingo Business costs me $50/month everything flat golablly inculding
the US and Canada. Unlimited data roaming everywhere. To put that into
perspective: Switzerland is rather a high price country for
communication services.

> How much does unlimited everything typically cost in Europe & in the UK?

And what does that change with your situation? Brain dead idiot and
eternal Troll.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

On 2023-12-15 21:23, Brian Gregory wrote:
> On 14/12/2023 17:37, Wally J wrote:
>> - Unlimited free high speed data (also both ways, see caveat)
>> - 5GB/month free hotspot/tethering (also both ways)
>
> That sucks.
>
> I think Ofcom have now ruled in the UK that data is data so if you're
> allowed X GB to use on your phone you must legally also be allowed to
> use any or all of it for tethering.

Nice.

They probably gave things like 50 GB assuming that most people would not
use them, whereas people that connect a computer or two will use the data.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

>> I think Ofcom have now ruled in the UK that data is data so if you're
>> allowed X GB to use on your phone you must legally also be allowed to
>> use any or all of it for tethering.
>
> Nice.
>
> They probably gave things like 50 GB assuming that most people would not
> use them, whereas people that connect a computer or two will use the data.

These are all good observations of how it sucks to have such an arbitrarily
puny limitation on hotspotting/tethering in the USA on postpaid T-Mobile.

To perhaps find a way to work around those arbitrary limitations, this
thread was just opened in these same ngs to flesh out how to avoid that.
*What's the easiest way to manually switch the cell tower you are hotspotting/tethering to?
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/xszxDu9quZ8>

In that way, ANYONE in the world who has similar arbitrary limitations may
easily bypass them as we have easily done so many other times in the past.

Just to be clear on how the 5GB/month/tower tethering/hotspotting
limitation works in the USA on a typical post-paid T-Mobile plan...

Here's my understanding based on experience & T-Mobile's explanations
1. The 5GB/month is per tower and that's high-speed tethering/hotspotting
2. If you move to another tower, that 5GB/month/line is still available
3. After that, T-Mobile _never_ shuts data down - but it slows down
4. T-Mobile sends a text at 80% (my grandkids get warned all the time)
5. For a one-time $10 (I believe) you can add another 50GB per month
6. Which, like all T-Mobile plans, you can cancel the next day if you like

What I'd like to know is how they know you're hotspotting and/or tethering.
Also if it's possible to _manually_ switch towers w/o changing location
--
I can't remember the last time I wasn't able to get around restrictions.