I've patched tubes for 20 years, and generally keep patching them
until either the stem fails or the leak is too near an existing
patch. The last year or so I've had quite a number of patches
fail, and I'm looking for tips.

I tend to save flatted tubes until I have 3-6, and then do several
at once in the garage--so these are not done in the field. I'm
careful to thoroughly sand a patch sized area around the flat,
sanding 3-4 different directions. I put on an even coating of the
glue/solvent, and let it sit until no longer shiny--maybe a minute
or two. Then I peel off the backing of the patch, apply it to the
prepped spot, and then hold it pressed together for a minute or so
-- and then weight it for another 5-10 minutes. Then I roll up
the tube and put it back in a box, ready to use when I need it.

I seem to remember someone suggesting a while back that the Rema
glue is best. Indeed, my troubles started about the time I got to
a batch of kits I'd picked up with other brands. The latest I
have say PAX on the tube. Does it seem my technique is okay and
the glue may be the culprit?

I'm planning to buy more patch kits, making sure to get the Rema
brand. Any reason not to keep the patches from the cheap kits I
still have on hand? I'm planning to chuck the little tubes of
glue.

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

On 12/27/2021 3:38 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
> I've patched tubes for 20 years, and generally keep patching them
> until either the stem fails or the leak is too near an existing
> patch. The last year or so I've had quite a number of patches
> fail, and I'm looking for tips.
>
> I tend to save flatted tubes until I have 3-6, and then do several
> at once in the garage--so these are not done in the field. I'm
> careful to thoroughly sand a patch sized area around the flat,
> sanding 3-4 different directions. I put on an even coating of the
> glue/solvent, and let it sit until no longer shiny--maybe a minute
> or two. Then I peel off the backing of the patch, apply it to the
> prepped spot, and then hold it pressed together for a minute or so
> -- and then weight it for another 5-10 minutes. Then I roll up
> the tube and put it back in a box, ready to use when I need it.
>
> I seem to remember someone suggesting a while back that the Rema
> glue is best. Indeed, my troubles started about the time I got to
> a batch of kits I'd picked up with other brands. The latest I
> have say PAX on the tube. Does it seem my technique is okay and
> the glue may be the culprit?
>
> I'm planning to buy more patch kits, making sure to get the Rema
> brand. Any reason not to keep the patches from the cheap kits I
> still have on hand? I'm planning to chuck the little tubes of
> glue.
>

I like Rema and we sell them. Not to disparage any other
brand in particular but Rema are consistent and reliable.

Although we seldom patch nowadays I spent my first decade in
the business patching tubes all day long. If I might
suggest, this technique may be helpful to you:

Locate the injury, arrange the tube such that the hole is
centered with the tube held flat across the back of your
hand. Sanding may or may not be helpful (suit yourself) but
regular automotive patch buffer is a real plus. Use a clean
cloth, wipe vigorously and repeat until no more black crud
comes off. All the loose black material is a barrier between
your fresh patch surface and the tube itself and sanding is
less effective than actual cleaning IMHO.

Yes you're right to just wet an area larger than the patch,
allow the surface to appear dry and then apply the patch. A
patch stitcher is a good idea.

https://products.techtirerepairs.com/chemical-solutions/rubber-cleaners/rub-o-matic/

https://products.techtirerepairs.com/product/1-8in-stitcher-plastic-handle/
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, December 27, 2021 at 1:38:51 PM UTC-8, Ted Heise wrote:
> I've patched tubes for 20 years, and generally keep patching them
> until either the stem fails or the leak is too near an existing
> patch. The last year or so I've had quite a number of patches
> fail, and I'm looking for tips.
>
> I tend to save flatted tubes until I have 3-6, and then do several
> at once in the garage--so these are not done in the field. I'm
> careful to thoroughly sand a patch sized area around the flat,
> sanding 3-4 different directions. I put on an even coating of the
> glue/solvent, and let it sit until no longer shiny--maybe a minute
> or two. Then I peel off the backing of the patch, apply it to the
> prepped spot, and then hold it pressed together for a minute or so
> -- and then weight it for another 5-10 minutes. Then I roll up
> the tube and put it back in a box, ready to use when I need it.
>
> I seem to remember someone suggesting a while back that the Rema
> glue is best. Indeed, my troubles started about the time I got to
> a batch of kits I'd picked up with other brands. The latest I
> have say PAX on the tube. Does it seem my technique is okay and
> the glue may be the culprit?
>
> I'm planning to buy more patch kits, making sure to get the Rema
> brand. Any reason not to keep the patches from the cheap kits I
> still have on hand? I'm planning to chuck the little tubes of
> glue.

I don't think that the Rema glue is any better but rather the bottom crimp on the tube and the top cap seal are very much better and glue doesn't dry up in the tube. I don't have any problems with sanding a large enough area and don't bother with several directions. I don't weight the patch after pressing it on the almost fully dried glue and just making sure that it is pressed down for the full diameter of the patch. I think that a reason for patches failing is putting on insufficient area of glue so that it is larger than the patch.

On Monday, December 27, 2021 at 3:17:24 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, December 27, 2021 at 1:38:51 PM UTC-8, Ted Heise wrote:
> > I've patched tubes for 20 years, and generally keep patching them
> > until either the stem fails or the leak is too near an existing
> > patch. The last year or so I've had quite a number of patches
> > fail, and I'm looking for tips.
> >
> > I tend to save flatted tubes until I have 3-6, and then do several
> > at once in the garage--so these are not done in the field. I'm
> > careful to thoroughly sand a patch sized area around the flat,
> > sanding 3-4 different directions. I put on an even coating of the
> > glue/solvent, and let it sit until no longer shiny--maybe a minute
> > or two. Then I peel off the backing of the patch, apply it to the
> > prepped spot, and then hold it pressed together for a minute or so
> > -- and then weight it for another 5-10 minutes. Then I roll up
> > the tube and put it back in a box, ready to use when I need it.
> >
> > I seem to remember someone suggesting a while back that the Rema
> > glue is best. Indeed, my troubles started about the time I got to
> > a batch of kits I'd picked up with other brands. The latest I
> > have say PAX on the tube. Does it seem my technique is okay and
> > the glue may be the culprit?
> >
> > I'm planning to buy more patch kits, making sure to get the Rema
> > brand. Any reason not to keep the patches from the cheap kits I
> > still have on hand? I'm planning to chuck the little tubes of
> > glue.
> I don't think that the Rema glue is any better but rather the bottom crimp on the tube and the top cap seal are very much better and glue doesn't dry up in the tube. I don't have any problems with sanding a large enough area and don't bother with several directions. I don't weight the patch after pressing it on the almost fully dried glue and just making sure that it is pressed down for the full diameter of the patch. I think that a reason for patches failing is putting on insufficient area of glue so that it is larger than the patch.

I'd completely forgotten about those Flow Seal cement cans. Somewhere or other I used to use those and I got the idea that the glue never had the solvent evaporate out of it. Though perhaps that was because whatever I used it on I would use the entire can up fairly rapidly. Perhaps I used that on tires long before there were tubeless tires.

On 12/27/2021 6:10 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/27/2021 3:38 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
>> I've patched tubes for 20 years, and generally keep patching them
>> until either the stem fails or the leak is too near an existing
>> patch.  The last year or so I've had quite a number of patches
>> fail, and I'm looking for tips.
>>
>> I tend to save flatted tubes until I have 3-6, and then do several
>> at once in the garage--so these are not done in the field.  I'm
>> careful to thoroughly sand a patch sized area around the flat,
>> sanding 3-4 different directions.  I put on an even coating of the
>> glue/solvent, and let it sit until no longer shiny--maybe a minute
>> or two.  Then I peel off the backing of the patch, apply it to the
>> prepped spot, and then hold it pressed together for a minute or so
>> -- and then weight it for another 5-10 minutes.  Then I roll up
>> the tube and put it back in a box, ready to use when I need it.
>>
>> I seem to remember someone suggesting a while back that the Rema
>> glue is best.  Indeed, my troubles started about the time I got to
>> a batch of kits I'd picked up with other brands.  The latest I
>> have say PAX on the tube.  Does it seem my technique is okay and
>> the glue may be the culprit?
>>
>> I'm planning to buy more patch kits, making sure to get the Rema
>> brand.  Any reason not to keep the patches from the cheap kits I
>> still have on hand?  I'm planning to chuck the little tubes of
>> glue.
>>
>
> I like Rema and we sell them. Not to disparage any other brand in
> particular but Rema are consistent and reliable.
>
> Although we seldom patch nowadays I spent my first decade in the
> business patching tubes all day long. If I might suggest, this technique
> may be helpful to you:
>
> Locate the injury, arrange the tube such that the hole is centered with
> the tube held flat across the back of your hand. Sanding may or may not
> be helpful (suit yourself) but regular automotive patch buffer is a real
> plus. Use a clean cloth, wipe vigorously and repeat until no more black
> crud comes off. All the loose black material is a barrier between your
> fresh patch surface and the tube itself and sanding is less effective
> than actual cleaning IMHO.
>
> Yes you're right to just wet an area larger than the patch, allow the
> surface to appear dry and then apply the patch. A patch stitcher is a
> good idea.
>
>
> https://products.techtirerepairs.com/chemical-solutions/rubber-cleaners/rub-o-matic/

It wasn't clear to me: Is the stuff linked above what you call
"automotive patch buffer"? As opposed to something like this?
https://www.amazon.com/OEMTOOLS-24410-Air-Tire-Buffer/dp/B01C3W6KLK

Also, anyone know what's in that chemical cleaner? For example, would
acetone work as well?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 12/27/2021 4:38 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
> I've patched tubes for 20 years, and generally keep patching them
> until either the stem fails or the leak is too near an existing
> patch. The last year or so I've had quite a number of patches
> fail, and I'm looking for tips.
>
> I tend to save flatted tubes until I have 3-6, and then do several
> at once in the garage--so these are not done in the field. I'm
> careful to thoroughly sand a patch sized area around the flat,
> sanding 3-4 different directions. I put on an even coating of the
> glue/solvent, and let it sit until no longer shiny--maybe a minute
> or two. Then I peel off the backing of the patch, apply it to the
> prepped spot, and then hold it pressed together for a minute or so
> -- and then weight it for another 5-10 minutes. Then I roll up
> the tube and put it back in a box, ready to use when I need it.
>
> I seem to remember someone suggesting a while back that the Rema
> glue is best. Indeed, my troubles started about the time I got to
> a batch of kits I'd picked up with other brands. The latest I
> have say PAX on the tube. Does it seem my technique is okay and
> the glue may be the culprit?

Your technique sounds OK to me. Mine's only slightly different, as I've
described before. I use a couple dowels, maybe 3/4" diameter and 8" to
12" long when patching tubes. One gets clamped in my bench vise to use
as an anvil or work surface. I drape the tube over that, hole facing up.
For buffing, I use a woodworking sanding block.

I cement and apply the patch as you do ("back of finger test" for dry
cement) but then I use the other dowel as a baker uses a rolling pin,
leaning in to put plenty of pressure on all of the patch's surface; much
more than I'd get with Andy's stitcher.

I'm probably overly careful. Patching failures don't show up until
months later, when I'd have forgotten what I did wrong, if anything. So
I try hard for perfection.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 20:37:10 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 12/27/2021 6:10 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 12/27/2021 3:38 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
>>> I've patched tubes for 20 years, and generally keep patching them
>>> until either the stem fails or the leak is too near an existing
>>> patch.  The last year or so I've had quite a number of patches
>>> fail, and I'm looking for tips.
>>>
>>> I tend to save flatted tubes until I have 3-6, and then do several
>>> at once in the garage--so these are not done in the field.  I'm
>>> careful to thoroughly sand a patch sized area around the flat,
>>> sanding 3-4 different directions.  I put on an even coating of the
>>> glue/solvent, and let it sit until no longer shiny--maybe a minute
>>> or two.  Then I peel off the backing of the patch, apply it to the
>>> prepped spot, and then hold it pressed together for a minute or so
>>> -- and then weight it for another 5-10 minutes.  Then I roll up
>>> the tube and put it back in a box, ready to use when I need it.
>>>
>>> I seem to remember someone suggesting a while back that the Rema
>>> glue is best.  Indeed, my troubles started about the time I got to
>>> a batch of kits I'd picked up with other brands.  The latest I
>>> have say PAX on the tube.  Does it seem my technique is okay and
>>> the glue may be the culprit?
>>>
>>> I'm planning to buy more patch kits, making sure to get the Rema
>>> brand.  Any reason not to keep the patches from the cheap kits I
>>> still have on hand?  I'm planning to chuck the little tubes of
>>> glue.
>>>
>>
>> I like Rema and we sell them. Not to disparage any other brand in
>> particular but Rema are consistent and reliable.
>>
>> Although we seldom patch nowadays I spent my first decade in the
>> business patching tubes all day long. If I might suggest, this technique
>> may be helpful to you:
>>
>> Locate the injury, arrange the tube such that the hole is centered with
>> the tube held flat across the back of your hand. Sanding may or may not
>> be helpful (suit yourself) but regular automotive patch buffer is a real
>> plus. Use a clean cloth, wipe vigorously and repeat until no more black
>> crud comes off. All the loose black material is a barrier between your
>> fresh patch surface and the tube itself and sanding is less effective
>> than actual cleaning IMHO.
>>
>> Yes you're right to just wet an area larger than the patch, allow the
>> surface to appear dry and then apply the patch. A patch stitcher is a
>> good idea.
>>
>>
>> https://products.techtirerepairs.com/chemical-solutions/rubber-cleaners/rub-o-matic/
>
>It wasn't clear to me: Is the stuff linked above what you call
>"automotive patch buffer"? As opposed to something like this?
>https://www.amazon.com/OEMTOOLS-24410-Air-Tire-Buffer/dp/B01C3W6KLK
>
>Also, anyone know what's in that chemical cleaner? For example, would
>acetone work as well?

See
https://techtirerepairs.com/content/product-documents/704%20ANSI%20Canada%20English.pdf
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 12/27/2021 7:37 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 12/27/2021 6:10 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 12/27/2021 3:38 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
>>> I've patched tubes for 20 years, and generally keep
>>> patching them
>>> until either the stem fails or the leak is too near an
>>> existing
>>> patch. The last year or so I've had quite a number of
>>> patches
>>> fail, and I'm looking for tips.
>>>
>>> I tend to save flatted tubes until I have 3-6, and then
>>> do several
>>> at once in the garage--so these are not done in the
>>> field. I'm
>>> careful to thoroughly sand a patch sized area around the
>>> flat,
>>> sanding 3-4 different directions. I put on an even
>>> coating of the
>>> glue/solvent, and let it sit until no longer shiny--maybe
>>> a minute
>>> or two. Then I peel off the backing of the patch, apply
>>> it to the
>>> prepped spot, and then hold it pressed together for a
>>> minute or so
>>> -- and then weight it for another 5-10 minutes. Then I
>>> roll up
>>> the tube and put it back in a box, ready to use when I
>>> need it.
>>>
>>> I seem to remember someone suggesting a while back that
>>> the Rema
>>> glue is best. Indeed, my troubles started about the
>>> time I got to
>>> a batch of kits I'd picked up with other brands. The
>>> latest I
>>> have say PAX on the tube. Does it seem my technique is
>>> okay and
>>> the glue may be the culprit?
>>>
>>> I'm planning to buy more patch kits, making sure to get
>>> the Rema
>>> brand. Any reason not to keep the patches from the
>>> cheap kits I
>>> still have on hand? I'm planning to chuck the little
>>> tubes of
>>> glue.
>>>
>>
>> I like Rema and we sell them. Not to disparage any other
>> brand in particular but Rema are consistent and reliable.
>>
>> Although we seldom patch nowadays I spent my first decade
>> in the business patching tubes all day long. If I might
>> suggest, this technique may be helpful to you:
>>
>> Locate the injury, arrange the tube such that the hole is
>> centered with the tube held flat across the back of your
>> hand. Sanding may or may not be helpful (suit yourself)
>> but regular automotive patch buffer is a real plus. Use a
>> clean cloth, wipe vigorously and repeat until no more
>> black crud comes off. All the loose black material is a
>> barrier between your fresh patch surface and the tube
>> itself and sanding is less effective than actual cleaning
>> IMHO.
>>
>> Yes you're right to just wet an area larger than the
>> patch, allow the surface to appear dry and then apply the
>> patch. A patch stitcher is a good idea.
>>
>>
>> https://products.techtirerepairs.com/chemical-solutions/rubber-cleaners/rub-o-matic/
>
>
> It wasn't clear to me: Is the stuff linked above what you
> call "automotive patch buffer"? As opposed to something like
> this?
> https://www.amazon.com/OEMTOOLS-24410-Air-Tire-Buffer/dp/B01C3W6KLK
>
>
> Also, anyone know what's in that chemical cleaner? For
> example, would acetone work as well?
>
>

Isn't English great? Yes the chemical prep is called
'buffer' and smells like acetone. Now we patch so rarely I
use auto brake cleaner (mostly acetone) because we have it
at hand.

And yes, for patching the inside of motor vehicle tire the
mechanical cleaning device is also called a buffer.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 17:10:11 -0600,
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 12/27/2021 3:38 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
> > I've patched tubes for 20 years, and generally keep patching
> > them until either the stem fails or the leak is too near an
> > existing patch. The last year or so I've had quite a number
> > of patches fail, and I'm looking for tips.

> I like Rema and we sell them. Not to disparage any other brand
> in particular but Rema are consistent and reliable.
>
> Although we seldom patch nowadays I spent my first decade in
> the business patching tubes all day long. If I might suggest,
> this technique may be helpful to you:
>
> Locate the injury, arrange the tube such that the hole is
> centered with the tube held flat across the back of your hand.
> Sanding may or may not be helpful (suit yourself) but regular
> automotive patch buffer is a real plus. Use a clean cloth, wipe
> vigorously and repeat until no more black crud comes off. All
> the loose black material is a barrier between your fresh patch
> surface and the tube itself and sanding is less effective than
> actual cleaning IMHO.
>
> Yes you're right to just wet an area larger than the patch,
> allow the surface to appear dry and then apply the patch. A
> patch stitcher is a good idea.
>
> https://products.techtirerepairs.com/chemical-solutions/rubber-cleaners/rub-o-matic/
>
> https://products.techtirerepairs.com/product/1-8in-stitcher-plastic-handle/

Thanks, Andrew, and all, for the tips. I had not heard of using a
stitcher (or other tool) before. I already have a plastic screen
rolling tool, and wonder if that might be adequate...

https://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-8-in-Plastic-Screen-Rolling-Tool/1000880542?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-hdw-_-ggl-_-LIA_HDW_145_General-Hardware-_-1000880542-_-local-_-0-_-0&ds_rl=1286981&gclid=CjwKCAiAiKuOBhBQEiwAId_sK313d6TS1UiuNsp4VByI4scauPvfb8nD_97PZYccKFEULMcaJRWMcxoCm8cQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I'm at a stage of my life that downsizing seems important, so not
eager to add "stuff." If the screen rolling tool seems a bad
idea, I may try the dowel method Frank suggested.

Similarly, I'm not keen on buying additional chemicals, not only
for downsizing purposes but to minimize environmental impact. Any
thoughts on whether fingernail polish remover might work okay for
cleaning? I believe it's mostly acetone.

Finally, regarding the Rema and tube crimp. The tubes I've used
were definitely not dried out--they were unopened and had plenty
of solvent in them. I still suspect the glue, given the high
correlation of patch failures with its use. I know correlation is
not causation, but to go from decades with virtually no failures
to a year or so of greater than 50% failures is surely
suspicious. And technique was unchanged.

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 09:15:50 +0700,
John B <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 20:37:10 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >On 12/27/2021 6:10 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 12/27/2021 3:38 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
> >>> I've patched tubes for 20 years, and generally keep patching
> >>> them until either the stem fails or the leak is too near an
> >>> existing patch.? The last year or so I've had quite a number
> >>> of patches fail, and I'm looking for tips.

> >> I like Rema and we sell them. Not to disparage any other
> >> brand in particular but Rema are consistent and reliable.
> >>
> >> Although we seldom patch nowadays I spent my first decade in
> >> the business patching tubes all day long. If I might suggest,
> >> this technique may be helpful to you:
> >>
> >> Locate the injury, arrange the tube such that the hole is
> >> centered with the tube held flat across the back of your
> >> hand. Sanding may or may not be helpful (suit yourself) but
> >> regular automotive patch buffer is a real plus. Use a clean
> >> cloth, wipe vigorously and repeat until no more black crud
> >> comes off. All the loose black material is a barrier between
> >> your fresh patch surface and the tube itself and sanding is
> >> less effective than actual cleaning IMHO.

> >> https://products.techtirerepairs.com/chemical-solutions/rubber-cleaners/rub-o-matic/
> >
> >It wasn't clear to me: Is the stuff linked above what you call
> >"automotive patch buffer"? As opposed to something like this?
> >https://www.amazon.com/OEMTOOLS-24410-Air-Tire-Buffer/dp/B01C3W6KLK
> >
> >Also, anyone know what's in that chemical cleaner? For example,
> >would acetone work as well?
>
> See
> https://techtirerepairs.com/content/product-documents/704%20ANSI%20Canada%20English.pdf

Sorry, should have looked at this too before following up. This
looks like mostly alkanes, though perhaps not a high percentage of
them (could be up to 50% other stuff). And yes, I recognize it's
likely just a fraction of crude distillation, so would not expect
higher purity.

I'll rumage around in the garage and see what other solvents I
have available. Probably residues from the fragrances they tend
to put in fingernail polish remover would run counter to effective
cleaning.

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

On 12/28/2021 9:41 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
>
>
> Similarly, I'm not keen on buying additional chemicals, not only
> for downsizing purposes but to minimize environmental impact. Any
> thoughts on whether fingernail polish remover might work okay for
> cleaning? I believe it's mostly acetone.

I sympathize about the downsizing syndrome. It seems to be a normal part
of reaching my (or our?) age.

But acetone is handy stuff! It seems to be very close to a universal
solvent. I always have a small can of acetone in my workshop. I've used
it to remove various unwanted stains, sticky adhesives, etc.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 5:47:05 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 12/28/2021 9:41 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
> >
> >
> > Similarly, I'm not keen on buying additional chemicals, not only
> > for downsizing purposes but to minimize environmental impact. Any
> > thoughts on whether fingernail polish remover might work okay for
> > cleaning? I believe it's mostly acetone.
> I sympathize about the downsizing syndrome. It seems to be a normal part
> of reaching my (or our?) age.
>
> But acetone is handy stuff! It seems to be very close to a universal
> solvent. I always have a small can of acetone in my workshop. I've used
> it to remove various unwanted stains, sticky adhesives, etc.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

Be careful with some sort of plastics.

Lou

Lou Holtman <lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 5:47:05 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 12/28/2021 9:41 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Similarly, I'm not keen on buying additional chemicals, not only
>>> for downsizing purposes but to minimize environmental impact. Any
>>> thoughts on whether fingernail polish remover might work okay for
>>> cleaning? I believe it's mostly acetone.
>> I sympathize about the downsizing syndrome. It seems to be a normal part
>> of reaching my (or our?) age.
>>
>> But acetone is handy stuff! It seems to be very close to a universal
>> solvent. I always have a small can of acetone in my workshop. I've used
>> it to remove various unwanted stains, sticky adhesives, etc.
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> Be careful with some sort of plastics.
>
> Lou
>

And your liver…

On 12/28/2021 11:08 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> Lou Holtman <lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 5:47:05 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 12/28/2021 9:41 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Similarly, I'm not keen on buying additional chemicals, not only
>>>> for downsizing purposes but to minimize environmental impact. Any
>>>> thoughts on whether fingernail polish remover might work okay for
>>>> cleaning? I believe it's mostly acetone.
>>> I sympathize about the downsizing syndrome. It seems to be a normal part
>>> of reaching my (or our?) age.
>>>
>>> But acetone is handy stuff! It seems to be very close to a universal
>>> solvent. I always have a small can of acetone in my workshop. I've used
>>> it to remove various unwanted stains, sticky adhesives, etc.
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>> Be careful with some sort of plastics.
>>
>> Lou
>>
>
> And your liver…
>
Sometimes. Mine's impervious to anything after many years of
adversity training.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 11:11:47 -0600,
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 12/28/2021 11:08 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > Lou Holtman <lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 5:47:05 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>> On 12/28/2021 9:41 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Similarly, I'm not keen on buying additional chemicals, not
> >>>> only for downsizing purposes but to minimize environmental
> >>>> impact. Any thoughts on whether fingernail polish remover
> >>>> might work okay for cleaning? I believe it's mostly
> >>>> acetone.
> >>> I sympathize about the downsizing syndrome. It seems to be a
> >>> normal part of reaching my (or our?) age.
> >>>
> >>> But acetone is handy stuff! It seems to be very close to a
> >>> universal solvent. I always have a small can of acetone in
> >>> my workshop. I've used it to remove various unwanted stains,
> >>> sticky adhesives, etc.

Well, it turns out I had various partial containers of naptha and
mineral spirits, so I will give those a go. They're all flavors
of saturated hydrocarbons, so I just consolidated into one
container.

FWIW, the LBS owner I talked to this afternoon has had the same
experience as I: can't get patches to work for the last year or
two. He suspects some change in mold release agents, so cleaning
with a solvent would also make sense in that case. I'm going to
go with that approach (as Andrew described) with the patches and
glue I already have (and order some Rema kits as back up).

All this got me to thinking, what's the best approach for a field
repair, if needed? I'm not gonna carry solvent around with me, so
I guess just especially thorough sanding?

> >> Be careful with some sort of plastics.

Yup. Ketones simply dissolve some plastics.

> > And your liver???
>
> Sometimes. Mine's impervious to anything after many years of
> adversity training.

Hah. I overtrained mine (as well as my living circumstances) and
had to give it up years ago. It was actually a good choice, for
me at least.

Thanks again for the input!

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 6:52:02 AM UTC-8, Ted Heise wrote:

> I'll rumage around in the garage and see what other solvents I
> have available. Probably residues from the fragrances they tend
> to put in fingernail polish remover would run counter to effective
> cleaning.

Somewhat related to the application of patches to inner tubes is the attachment of soles to shoes. I'd asked the local shoe repair place what they do to clean surfaces prior to gluing, and they were cagey with their answer until after I'd paid for the barge cement. While I was expecting a chemical answer, the final answer was: sandpaper. This made complete sense in retrospect, and agrees exactly with Jobst Brandt's writings on the subject. Rather than clean the surface of whatever substances may interfere with gluing, they both advocate that you remove the surface altogether, exposing bare material.

Chemical cleaning may work if the only contaminant of interest is known to be soluable, in which case the cleaner substituting for the sanding (buffing) makes it a chemical buffer. However, if the surface is of talc-based mold release that's captured in the surface of the rubber, I don't know that any solvent would help with a good bond.

I haven't had an adhesive failure which I felt could have been avoided by the use of chemicals, but I haven't had sufficient samples of both to know for sure. I'm more than happy to manually sand surfaces I'm gluing - be they tubes or shoes - rather than unnecessarily expose myself to solvent vapours.

On a related note, while I haven't tried it yet, I suspect that barge glue would work perfectly well as tube patching cement. I may try it when my tube of Rema dries up, but only if my tube of barge hasn't done the same in the meanwhile.

-Luns

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 8:59:52 AM UTC-8, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Be careful with some sort of plastics.

I was shocked the day my Swiss Army Knife sat in a little puddle of accidentally spilled
mosquito repellent, 100% DEET. The red plastic of the handle was soft and distorted.

- Frank Krygowski

On 12/28/2021 7:01 PM, Luns Tee wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 6:52:02 AM UTC-8, Ted Heise wrote:
>
>> I'll rumage around in the garage and see what other solvents I
>> have available. Probably residues from the fragrances they tend
>> to put in fingernail polish remover would run counter to effective
>> cleaning.
>
> Somewhat related to the application of patches to inner tubes is the attachment of soles to shoes. I'd asked the local shoe repair place what they do to clean surfaces prior to gluing, and they were cagey with their answer until after I'd paid for the barge cement. While I was expecting a chemical answer, the final answer was: sandpaper. This made complete sense in retrospect, and agrees exactly with Jobst Brandt's writings on the subject. Rather than clean the surface of whatever substances may interfere with gluing, they both advocate that you remove the surface altogether, exposing bare material.
>
> Chemical cleaning may work if the only contaminant of interest is known to be soluable, in which case the cleaner substituting for the sanding (buffing) makes it a chemical buffer. However, if the surface is of talc-based mold release that's captured in the surface of the rubber, I don't know that any solvent would help with a good bond.
>
> I haven't had an adhesive failure which I felt could have been avoided by the use of chemicals, but I haven't had sufficient samples of both to know for sure. I'm more than happy to manually sand surfaces I'm gluing - be they tubes or shoes - rather than unnecessarily expose myself to solvent vapours.
>
> On a related note, while I haven't tried it yet, I suspect that barge glue would work perfectly well as tube patching cement. I may try it when my tube of Rema dries up, but only if my tube of barge hasn't done the same in the meanwhile.
>
> -Luns
>

Nice product. I'm a fan (we even have the special $$ Barge
thinner here) but not for inner tubes.

A Rema or other quality rubber patching system is chemically
superior to a regular (or even super duper) adhesive, making
sulphur and zinc 'cold vulcanize' bonds.

https://www.reddit.com/r/bicycling/comments/fhf03/how_do_vulcanizing_tire_patches_work/

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 19:16:12 -0600,
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 12/28/2021 7:01 PM, Luns Tee wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 6:52:02 AM UTC-8, Ted Heise wrote:
> >
> >> I'll rumage around in the garage and see what other solvents
> >> I have available. Probably residues from the fragrances they
> >> tend to put in fingernail polish remover would run counter to
> >> effective cleaning.
> >
> > Somewhat related to the application of patches to inner tubes
> > is the attachment of soles to shoes. I'd asked the local shoe
> > repair place what they do to clean surfaces prior to gluing,
> > and they were cagey with their answer until after I'd paid for
> > the barge cement. While I was expecting a chemical answer, the
> > final answer was: sandpaper. This made complete sense in
> > retrospect, and agrees exactly with Jobst Brandt's writings on
> > the subject. Rather than clean the surface of whatever
> > substances may interfere with gluing, they both advocate that
> > you remove the surface altogether, exposing bare material.
> >
> > Chemical cleaning may work if the only contaminant of interest
> > is known to be soluable, in which case the cleaner
> > substituting for the sanding (buffing) makes it a chemical
> > buffer. However, if the surface is of talc-based mold release
> > that's captured in the surface of the rubber, I don't know
> > that any solvent would help with a good bond.
> >
> > I haven't had an adhesive failure which I felt could have been
> > avoided by the use of chemicals, but I haven't had sufficient
> > samples of both to know for sure. I'm more than happy to
> > manually sand surfaces I'm gluing - be they tubes or shoes -
> > rather than unnecessarily expose myself to solvent vapours.
> >
> > On a related note, while I haven't tried it yet, I suspect
> > that barge glue would work perfectly well as tube patching
> > cement. I may try it when my tube of Rema dries up, but only
> > if my tube of barge hasn't done the same in the meanwhile.

> Nice product. I'm a fan (we even have the special $$ Barge
> thinner here) but not for inner tubes.
>
> A Rema or other quality rubber patching system is chemically
> superior to a regular (or even super duper) adhesive, making
> sulphur and zinc 'cold vulcanize' bonds.
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/bicycling/comments/fhf03/how_do_vulcanizing_tire_patches_work/

Good thoughts, Luns. Your point about sandpapering having a
deeper effect is reasonable.

And a nice overview of vulcanization. As a chemist, it makes
sense to me.

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 19:16:12 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 12/28/2021 7:01 PM, Luns Tee wrote:
>> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 6:52:02 AM UTC-8, Ted Heise wrote:
>>
>>> I'll rumage around in the garage and see what other solvents I
>>> have available. Probably residues from the fragrances they tend
>>> to put in fingernail polish remover would run counter to effective
>>> cleaning.
>>
>> Somewhat related to the application of patches to inner tubes is the attachment of soles to shoes. I'd asked the local shoe repair place what they do to clean surfaces prior to gluing, and they were cagey with their answer until after I'd paid for the barge cement. While I was expecting a chemical answer, the final answer was: sandpaper. This made complete sense in retrospect, and agrees exactly with Jobst Brandt's writings on the subject. Rather than clean the surface of whatever substances may interfere with gluing, they both advocate that you remove the surface altogether, exposing bare material.
>>
>> Chemical cleaning may work if the only contaminant of interest is known to be soluable, in which case the cleaner substituting for the sanding (buffing) makes it a chemical buffer. However, if the surface is of talc-based mold release that's captured in the surface of the rubber, I don't know that any solvent would help with a good bond.
>>
>> I haven't had an adhesive failure which I felt could have been avoided by the use of chemicals, but I haven't had sufficient samples of both to know for sure. I'm more than happy to manually sand surfaces I'm gluing - be they tubes or shoes - rather than unnecessarily expose myself to solvent vapours.
>>
>> On a related note, while I haven't tried it yet, I suspect that barge glue would work perfectly well as tube patching cement. I may try it when my tube of Rema dries up, but only if my tube of barge hasn't done the same in the meanwhile.
>>
>> -Luns
>>
>
>Nice product. I'm a fan (we even have the special $$ Barge
>thinner here) but not for inner tubes.
>
>A Rema or other quality rubber patching system is chemically
>superior to a regular (or even super duper) adhesive, making
>sulphur and zinc 'cold vulcanize' bonds.
>
>https://www.reddit.com/r/bicycling/comments/fhf03/how_do_vulcanizing_tire_patches_work/

Somewhere I have read that bicycle tubes can be made from natural
rubber or butyl rubber in which case the "vulcanizing" action if any
will require different chemicals depending on the type of rubber. I
believe that natural rubber uses some form of sulphur compound.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 29 Dec 2021 09:02:24 +0700,
John B <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 19:16:12 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >On 12/28/2021 7:01 PM, Luns Tee wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 6:52:02 AM UTC-8, Ted Heise wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'll rumage around in the garage and see what other solvents
> >>> I have available. Probably residues from the fragrances they
> >>> tend to put in fingernail polish remover would run counter
> >>> to effective cleaning.
> >>
> >> Somewhat related to the application of patches to inner tubes
> >> is the attachment of soles to shoes. I'd asked the local shoe
> >> repair place what they do to clean surfaces prior to gluing,
> >> and they were cagey with their answer until after I'd paid
> >> for the barge cement. While I was expecting a chemical
> >> answer, the final answer was: sandpaper. This made complete
> >> sense in retrospect, and agrees exactly with Jobst Brandt's
> >> writings on the subject. Rather than clean the surface of
> >> whatever substances may interfere with gluing, they both
> >> advocate that you remove the surface altogether, exposing
> >> bare material.
> >>
> >> Chemical cleaning may work if the only contaminant of
> >> interest is known to be soluable, in which case the cleaner
> >> substituting for the sanding (buffing) makes it a chemical
> >> buffer. However, if the surface is of talc-based mold release
> >> that's captured in the surface of the rubber, I don't know
> >> that any solvent would help with a good bond.
> >>
> >> I haven't had an adhesive failure which I felt could have
> >> been avoided by the use of chemicals, but I haven't had
> >> sufficient samples of both to know for sure. I'm more than
> >> happy to manually sand surfaces I'm gluing - be they tubes or
> >> shoes - rather than unnecessarily expose myself to solvent
> >> vapours.
> >>
> >> On a related note, while I haven't tried it yet, I suspect
> >> that barge glue would work perfectly well as tube patching
> >> cement. I may try it when my tube of Rema dries up, but only
> >> if my tube of barge hasn't done the same in the meanwhile.
> >>
> >
> >Nice product. I'm a fan (we even have the special $$ Barge
> >thinner here) but not for inner tubes.
> >
> >A Rema or other quality rubber patching system is chemically
> >superior to a regular (or even super duper) adhesive, making
> >sulphur and zinc 'cold vulcanize' bonds.
> >
> >https://www.reddit.com/r/bicycling/comments/fhf03/how_do_vulcanizing_tire_patches_work/
>
> Somewhere I have read that bicycle tubes can be made from
> natural rubber or butyl rubber in which case the "vulcanizing"
> action if any will require different chemicals depending on the
> type of rubber. I believe that natural rubber uses some form of
> sulphur compound.

Interesting thought. It caused me to reflect a bit more on my
experience of the last 1-2 years, and I realized that patch
failures have more often than not happened on tubes that had a
number of prior patches (2-4 on average) all of which were by
definition obviously successful. So this additional fact makes me
think the current problems are unlikely due to differences in tire
material or mold release agents, and puts the "glue" and/or patch
materials back at top of the suspect list.

I've got some Rema patch kits coming, and intend to use them for a
time--holding the other kits back until I see if I've better luck
with the Remas. At some point, if the failures keep happening,
I'll probably just give up on patching entirely.

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

On 12/28/2021 8:02 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 19:16:12 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 12/28/2021 7:01 PM, Luns Tee wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 6:52:02 AM UTC-8, Ted Heise wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'll rumage around in the garage and see what other solvents I
>>>> have available. Probably residues from the fragrances they tend
>>>> to put in fingernail polish remover would run counter to effective
>>>> cleaning.
>>>
>>> Somewhat related to the application of patches to inner tubes is the attachment of soles to shoes. I'd asked the local shoe repair place what they do to clean surfaces prior to gluing, and they were cagey with their answer until after I'd paid for the barge cement. While I was expecting a chemical answer, the final answer was: sandpaper. This made complete sense in retrospect, and agrees exactly with Jobst Brandt's writings on the subject. Rather than clean the surface of whatever substances may interfere with gluing, they both advocate that you remove the surface altogether, exposing bare material.
>>>
>>> Chemical cleaning may work if the only contaminant of interest is known to be soluable, in which case the cleaner substituting for the sanding (buffing) makes it a chemical buffer. However, if the surface is of talc-based mold release that's captured in the surface of the rubber, I don't know that any solvent would help with a good bond.
>>>
>>> I haven't had an adhesive failure which I felt could have been avoided by the use of chemicals, but I haven't had sufficient samples of both to know for sure. I'm more than happy to manually sand surfaces I'm gluing - be they tubes or shoes - rather than unnecessarily expose myself to solvent vapours.
>>>
>>> On a related note, while I haven't tried it yet, I suspect that barge glue would work perfectly well as tube patching cement. I may try it when my tube of Rema dries up, but only if my tube of barge hasn't done the same in the meanwhile.
>>>
>>> -Luns
>>>
>>
>> Nice product. I'm a fan (we even have the special $$ Barge
>> thinner here) but not for inner tubes.
>>
>> A Rema or other quality rubber patching system is chemically
>> superior to a regular (or even super duper) adhesive, making
>> sulphur and zinc 'cold vulcanize' bonds.
>>
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/bicycling/comments/fhf03/how_do_vulcanizing_tire_patches_work/
>
> Somewhere I have read that bicycle tubes can be made from natural
> rubber or butyl rubber in which case the "vulcanizing" action if any
> will require different chemicals depending on the type of rubber. I
> believe that natural rubber uses some form of sulphur compound.
>

I'm weak on chemistry but yes latex tubes take a different
patch solution and a different patch.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 12/28/2021 5:01 PM, Luns Tee wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 6:52:02 AM UTC-8, Ted Heise wrote:
>
>> I'll rumage around in the garage and see what other solvents I
>> have available. Probably residues from the fragrances they tend
>> to put in fingernail polish remover would run counter to effective
>> cleaning.
>
> Somewhat related to the application of patches to inner tubes is the attachment of soles to shoes. I'd asked the local shoe repair place what they do to clean surfaces prior to gluing, and they were cagey with their answer until after I'd paid for the barge cement. While I was expecting a chemical answer, the final answer was: sandpaper. This made complete sense in retrospect, and agrees exactly with Jobst Brandt's writings on the subject. Rather than clean the surface of whatever substances may interfere with gluing, they both advocate that you remove the surface altogether, exposing bare material.
>
> Chemical cleaning may work if the only contaminant of interest is known to be soluable, in which case the cleaner substituting for the sanding (buffing) makes it a chemical buffer. However, if the surface is of talc-based mold release that's captured in the surface of the rubber, I don't know that any solvent would help with a good bond.
>
> I haven't had an adhesive failure which I felt could have been avoided by the use of chemicals, but I haven't had sufficient samples of both to know for sure. I'm more than happy to manually sand surfaces I'm gluing - be they tubes or shoes - rather than unnecessarily expose myself to solvent vapours.
>
> On a related note, while I haven't tried it yet, I suspect that barge glue would work perfectly well as tube patching cement. I may try it when my tube of Rema dries up, but only if my tube of barge hasn't done the same in the meanwhile.

Might be worth a try, but tire patch cement is "vulcanizing" while I
doubt if Barge cement has the same chemical composition. You can buy an
8 ounce can of vulcanizing tire cement for less than $10 so I don't know
that I'd waste time with experimenting with Barge.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 5:01:29 PM UTC-8, Luns Tee wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 6:52:02 AM UTC-8, Ted Heise wrote:
>
> > I'll rumage around in the garage and see what other solvents I
> > have available. Probably residues from the fragrances they tend
> > to put in fingernail polish remover would run counter to effective
> > cleaning.
> Somewhat related to the application of patches to inner tubes is the attachment of soles to shoes. I'd asked the local shoe repair place what they do to clean surfaces prior to gluing, and they were cagey with their answer until after I'd paid for the barge cement. While I was expecting a chemical answer, the final answer was: sandpaper. This made complete sense in retrospect, and agrees exactly with Jobst Brandt's writings on the subject. Rather than clean the surface of whatever substances may interfere with gluing, they both advocate that you remove the surface altogether, exposing bare material.
>
> Chemical cleaning may work if the only contaminant of interest is known to be soluable, in which case the cleaner substituting for the sanding (buffing) makes it a chemical buffer. However, if the surface is of talc-based mold release that's captured in the surface of the rubber, I don't know that any solvent would help with a good bond.
>
> I haven't had an adhesive failure which I felt could have been avoided by the use of chemicals, but I haven't had sufficient samples of both to know for sure. I'm more than happy to manually sand surfaces I'm gluing - be they tubes or shoes - rather than unnecessarily expose myself to solvent vapours.
>
> On a related note, while I haven't tried it yet, I suspect that barge glue would work perfectly well as tube patching cement. I may try it when my tube of Rema dries up, but only if my tube of barge hasn't done the same in the meanwhile.

Jobst was a highly competent mechanical engineer with serious experience. I'm sure that he never worked with carbon fiber though so I would take his opinions on that subject, secondary to Andrew.

On Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 5:25:52 AM UTC-8, Ted Heise wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Dec 2021 09:02:24 +0700,
> John B <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 19:16:12 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > >On 12/28/2021 7:01 PM, Luns Tee wrote:
> > >> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 6:52:02 AM UTC-8, Ted Heise wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I'll rumage around in the garage and see what other solvents
> > >>> I have available. Probably residues from the fragrances they
> > >>> tend to put in fingernail polish remover would run counter
> > >>> to effective cleaning.
> > >>
> > >> Somewhat related to the application of patches to inner tubes
> > >> is the attachment of soles to shoes. I'd asked the local shoe
> > >> repair place what they do to clean surfaces prior to gluing,
> > >> and they were cagey with their answer until after I'd paid
> > >> for the barge cement. While I was expecting a chemical
> > >> answer, the final answer was: sandpaper. This made complete
> > >> sense in retrospect, and agrees exactly with Jobst Brandt's
> > >> writings on the subject. Rather than clean the surface of
> > >> whatever substances may interfere with gluing, they both
> > >> advocate that you remove the surface altogether, exposing
> > >> bare material.
> > >>
> > >> Chemical cleaning may work if the only contaminant of
> > >> interest is known to be soluable, in which case the cleaner
> > >> substituting for the sanding (buffing) makes it a chemical
> > >> buffer. However, if the surface is of talc-based mold release
> > >> that's captured in the surface of the rubber, I don't know
> > >> that any solvent would help with a good bond.
> > >>
> > >> I haven't had an adhesive failure which I felt could have
> > >> been avoided by the use of chemicals, but I haven't had
> > >> sufficient samples of both to know for sure. I'm more than
> > >> happy to manually sand surfaces I'm gluing - be they tubes or
> > >> shoes - rather than unnecessarily expose myself to solvent
> > >> vapours.
> > >>
> > >> On a related note, while I haven't tried it yet, I suspect
> > >> that barge glue would work perfectly well as tube patching
> > >> cement. I may try it when my tube of Rema dries up, but only
> > >> if my tube of barge hasn't done the same in the meanwhile.
> > >>
> > >
> > >Nice product. I'm a fan (we even have the special $$ Barge
> > >thinner here) but not for inner tubes.
> > >
> > >A Rema or other quality rubber patching system is chemically
> > >superior to a regular (or even super duper) adhesive, making
> > >sulphur and zinc 'cold vulcanize' bonds.
> > >
> > >https://www.reddit.com/r/bicycling/comments/fhf03/how_do_vulcanizing_tire_patches_work/
> >
> > Somewhere I have read that bicycle tubes can be made from
> > natural rubber or butyl rubber in which case the "vulcanizing"
> > action if any will require different chemicals depending on the
> > type of rubber. I believe that natural rubber uses some form of
> > sulphur compound.
> Interesting thought. It caused me to reflect a bit more on my
> experience of the last 1-2 years, and I realized that patch
> failures have more often than not happened on tubes that had a
> number of prior patches (2-4 on average) all of which were by
> definition obviously successful. So this additional fact makes me
> think the current problems are unlikely due to differences in tire
> material or mold release agents, and puts the "glue" and/or patch
> materials back at top of the suspect list.
>
> I've got some Rema patch kits coming, and intend to use them for a
> time--holding the other kits back until I see if I've better luck
> with the Remas. At some point, if the failures keep happening,
> I'll probably just give up on patching entirely.
> --
> Ted Heise <the...@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA
Back when we patched car tire innertubes after gluing and placing the patch we would clamp it in a device that looked like a C-clamp for 15 minutes or so.