Recently, I have been bedeviled by unstable Internet service from
COMCAST (Xfinity) in the Boston area. The following story is not
limited to COMCAST, and it could have been any Cable-TV Internet
Service Provider.

Starting in late July 2021 and ending in early August 2021, for about
one month total, my Internet service became very unstable. (Cable TV
service was unaffected, so it was not that the physical cable path was
interrupted.) Internet service had been rock solid since about 2016,
when I purchased and installed the current cable modem, an ARRIS
SB6183. My service tier is 200 Mbit/sec download, which is well
within the capabilities of the SB6183, 686 Mbits/sec.

The main external symptoms were that browser access would randomly
slow and hang, sometimes recovering, something not. Likewise email
(POP account). Rebooting the modem (by cycling power) often but not
always restored Internet service. As the month progressed, things got
progressively worse, although it was always relapsing-remitting - it
should spend all night trying to connect, failing, trying again, and
so on.

Called COMCAST tech support, which forced me to deal with a robot lady
that could only follow a script, the main point of which was to get me
to power-cycle the modem. This power cycle often did work, probably
because she was probably also sending a modem reset signal at the same
time, but she never made that clear. (The robot lady here is in fact
a machine, not just an unimaginative human, a droid.)

Got a human later, after calling back and answering that the problem
was not fixed. The human came to the conclusion that my cable modem
was too old and likely broken, and insisted that I call ARRIS and have
them diagnose the modem, and only if ARRIS declared that the modem was
not broken would COMCAST do anything like send a truck without
charging an arm and a leg.

Called ARRIS. Cost US $50 (out of warrantee). Got a real human, in
Chennai, India, who did seem expert in the modem internals, with
perfect English and a very good telephone line, and was very patient.

COMCAST had claimed that ARRIS could do technical (ie, electrical)
tests remotely, but this turned out not to be true. Anyway, I had
collected lots of status data from the modem, which we discussed, and
he concluded that the modem was not broken and did not need to be
replaced

Now one mystery had always nagged me: While the Internet was up, the
modem would report received signal powers (over 16 parallel RX
channels) of +5 dBmV (decibels over one millivolt in a 75-ohm system),
and a SNR of about 40 dB, and yet errors (both corrected and
uncorrected) kept accumulating.

When the link was down, the received signal level would drop by 20 dB
to -15 dBmV (which is in the DOCSIS 3.0 Spec Range) , and the SNR
would still be 35 dB (also in spec range).

How does that work? With 35 to 40 dB SNR, there should be no errors.
Neither COMCAST nor ARRIS were able to interpret that oddity.

Called COMCAST back. Went through the robot lady yet again, but on
the third call, got another real human.

He really had no idea what went on inside modems et al, and insisted
that if the associated firewall/router was not also rebooted when the
modem was reset or rebooted, the ensuing chaos would cause the modem
to be unable to measure incoming RF power (at around 500 MHz)
correctly on a coax, the claim being that both Ethernet and Cable TV
were both "electrical", so they could heavily affect one another Hmm.
I'll have to think about that. For a very long time.

He was also of the opinion that Ethernet wires wear out and need
periodic replacement. I declined to disassemble the house to get at
the CAT5e cable that runs from basement (at the modem) to the 2nd
floor (where the WiFi base station lives).

He worried greatly about cables and connectors in general, saying that
they were very often the cause of such problems as I was seeing. After
one hour discussing the issue, while his theories of causation were
nonsense, this was his direct experience, and thus was my main
takeaway.

Usually, connectors are the main cause of problems with "cables", and
it had to be a coax cable, so I found an 11mm (7/16") open-end
ignition wrench, and went around loosening and re-tightening all CATV
RF connectors (Type F, for the record). The loosen-then-tighten drill
is to physically disrupt any corrosion at contact points.

All connections were tight save one, the one where the coax from the
modem connects to the RF feed coming from the nearby boiler room. The
loose connector is in the wall plate under the table upon which the
modem sits, along with my desktop computer, and that connector had
managed over the years since 2016 to unscrew itself almost to the
point of falling apart. That cable does move a bit when things are
added or removed, and so on. Tightened the connector. Bingo!

And now the cause of the oddity became clear. The SNR is measured
over time, to yield a stable value. But the connection was chattering
between normal power (+5 dBmV) and open (-15 dBmV) fast enough that
the SNR calculation didn't notice. This was also too fast for AGC et
al to react, so symbols sent during the open period were lost. Some
could be recreated by forward error correction, and some could not,
and these errors accumulated steadily over time despite the stellar
SNR.

The modulation type is QAM256, and the symbol rate on each QAM256
channel is 5120 Ksymbols per second. There are 16 downlink and 4
uplink channels. The AM component of the QAM symbols will have a
fundamental at 5 MHz or so, far above the spectrum due to a rattling
connector.

..<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrature_amplitude_modulation>

A spectrum analyzer would not have found this problem either. I
suppose if one envelope demodulated the received RF, the chattering
would have been quite obvious - big AM noise peak in the 10 to 1000 Hz
range, or the like. I would think that it would be useful for the
modem to do this - loose connectors are pretty common I'd hazard.

Anyway, it all works now, the key symptom being that there are no new
errors accumulating now.

And the takeaway is that if SNR exceeds 30 dB and yet errors
accumulate, start re-tightening RF connectors. If that doesn't work,
look for a cracked wire or connector, or a loose shield.

Joe

"Joe Gwinn" wrote in message
news:dbofhglf9r8p0k4k0krfklc4g8leoehv61@4ax.com...

................
The modulation type is QAM256, and the symbol rate on each QAM256
channel is 5120 Ksymbols per second. There are 16 downlink and 4
uplink channels. The AM component of the QAM symbols will have a
fundamental at 5 MHz or so, far above the spectrum due to a rattling
connector.

..<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrature_amplitude_modulation>

A spectrum analyzer would not have found this problem either. I
suppose if one envelope demodulated the received RF, the chattering
would have been quite obvious - big AM noise peak in the 10 to 1000 Hz
range, or the like. I would think that it would be useful for the
modem to do this - loose connectors are pretty common I'd hazard.

....
Joe

-----------------

+5dBm is nearly half a volt. Would an unsynced scope have shown dropouts in
the envelope?

On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 12:27:31 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

>"Joe Gwinn" wrote in message
>news:dbofhglf9r8p0k4k0krfklc4g8leoehv61@4ax.com...
>
>...............
>The modulation type is QAM256, and the symbol rate on each QAM256
>channel is 5120 Ksymbols per second. There are 16 downlink and 4
>uplink channels. The AM component of the QAM symbols will have a
>fundamental at 5 MHz or so, far above the spectrum due to a rattling
>connector.
>
>.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrature_amplitude_modulation>
>
>A spectrum analyzer would not have found this problem either. I
>suppose if one envelope demodulated the received RF, the chattering
>would have been quite obvious - big AM noise peak in the 10 to 1000 Hz
>range, or the like. I would think that it would be useful for the
>modem to do this - loose connectors are pretty common I'd hazard.
>
>...
>Joe
>
>-----------------
>
>+5dBm is nearly half a volt. Would an unsynced scope have shown dropouts in
>the envelope?

A bandpass filter followed by a diode envelope detector feeding a
scope would likely have worked. A spectral display may be best to
prevent distraction, but the modulation amplitude was 100%, so it's
going to be pretty obvious.

But what I'm thinking is that this kind of detection should be built
into the modem, as ratty connectors are quite common.

Joe Gwinn

"Joe Gwinn" wrote in message
news:6g1ghg13dhikhla7e5g5cf5tr547gn8f14@4ax.com...

On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 12:27:31 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

>"Joe Gwinn" wrote in message
>news:dbofhglf9r8p0k4k0krfklc4g8leoehv61@4ax.com...
>
>...............
>The modulation type is QAM256, and the symbol rate on each QAM256
>channel is 5120 Ksymbols per second. There are 16 downlink and 4
>uplink channels. The AM component of the QAM symbols will have a
>fundamental at 5 MHz or so, far above the spectrum due to a rattling
>connector.
>
>.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrature_amplitude_modulation>
>
>A spectrum analyzer would not have found this problem either. I
>suppose if one envelope demodulated the received RF, the chattering
>would have been quite obvious - big AM noise peak in the 10 to 1000 Hz
>range, or the like. I would think that it would be useful for the
>modem to do this - loose connectors are pretty common I'd hazard.
>
>...
>Joe
>
>-----------------
>
>+5dBm is nearly half a volt. Would an unsynced scope have shown dropouts in
>the envelope?

A bandpass filter followed by a diode envelope detector feeding a
scope would likely have worked. A spectral display may be best to
prevent distraction, but the modulation amplitude was 100%, so it's
going to be pretty obvious.

But what I'm thinking is that this kind of detection should be built
into the modem, as ratty connectors are quite common.

Joe Gwinn

-----------------------

So the symptom was more complicated than intermittent complete loss of
signal?

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:sf8qtv$sir$1@dont-email.me...

"Joe Gwinn" wrote in message
news:dbofhglf9r8p0k4k0krfklc4g8leoehv61@4ax.com...

................
The modulation type is QAM256, and the symbol rate on each QAM256
channel is 5120 Ksymbols per second. There are 16 downlink and 4
uplink channels. The AM component of the QAM symbols will have a
fundamental at 5 MHz or so, far above the spectrum due to a rattling
connector.

..<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrature_amplitude_modulation>

A spectrum analyzer would not have found this problem either. I
suppose if one envelope demodulated the received RF, the chattering
would have been quite obvious - big AM noise peak in the 10 to 1000 Hz
range, or the like. I would think that it would be useful for the
modem to do this - loose connectors are pretty common I'd hazard.

....
Joe

-----------------

+5dBm is nearly half a volt. Would an unsynced scope have shown dropouts in
the envelope?

--------------------

I missed that you wrote 5 dBmV, not the dBm I'm used to. 5 dBmV is too small
for a good scope display.

On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 5:39:12 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:sf8qtv$sir$1...@dont-email.me...
> "Joe Gwinn" wrote in message
> news:dbofhglf9r8p0k4k0...@4ax.com...
>
> ...............
> The modulation type is QAM256, and the symbol rate on each QAM256
> channel is 5120 Ksymbols per second. There are 16 downlink and 4
> uplink channels. The AM component of the QAM symbols will have a
> fundamental at 5 MHz or so, far above the spectrum due to a rattling
> connector.
>
> .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrature_amplitude_modulation>
>
> A spectrum analyzer would not have found this problem either. I
> suppose if one envelope demodulated the received RF, the chattering
> would have been quite obvious - big AM noise peak in the 10 to 1000 Hz
> range, or the like. I would think that it would be useful for the
> modem to do this - loose connectors are pretty common I'd hazard.
>
> ...
> Joe
>
> -----------------
>
> +5dBm is nearly half a volt. Would an unsynced scope have shown dropouts in
> the envelope?
> --------------------
>
> I missed that you wrote 5 dBmV, not the dBm I'm used to. 5 dBmV is too small
> for a good scope display.

Some of the older Wavetek CATV Signal Level Meters have a built in spectrum analyzer function that you connect to an oscilloscope for the display. They are in the SAM series like the SAM III shown here:https://www.ebay.com/itm/144138486196
A cheaper way is with a SDR, a F to SMA adapter and your computer. There is good freeware to operate it from 100KHz to 1.7 GHz. https://www.ebay.com/itm/304033297816
0dBmV is 1 milivolt.
Here is a good page comparing the older DOCSIS 3.0 to the current 3.1, including the RF frequencies used:
https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/technologies/cable_tv/docsis/docsis-technology/docsis_technology_55513.html

"Michael Terrell" wrote in message
news:6a9b4fd2-4dcc-4b2c-bb99-5c45c3ae0a6an@googlegroups.com...

On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 5:39:12 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
....
>
> I missed that you wrote 5 dBmV, not the dBm I'm used to. 5 dBmV is too
> small
> for a good scope display.

Some of the older Wavetek CATV Signal Level Meters have a built in spectrum
analyzer function that you connect to an oscilloscope for the display. They
are in the SAM series like the SAM III shown
here:https://www.ebay.com/itm/144138486196
A cheaper way is with a SDR, a F to SMA adapter and your computer. There is
good freeware to operate it from 100KHz to 1.7 GHz.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304033297816
0dBmV is 1 milivolt.
Here is a good page comparing the older DOCSIS 3.0 to the current 3.1,
including the RF frequencies used:
https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/technologies/cable_tv/docsis/docsis-technology/docsis_technology_55513.html

------------------------

Thanks. Digital encoding is one of the most complex and difficult subjects
I've studied, up there with chemical Thermodynamics.
The 0 dBm (1mW, 50 Ohms) I assumed is 0.632V p-p on a scope. Usually I
measured signals with a vector network analyzer.

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 5:28:05 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Michael Terrell" wrote in message
> news:6a9b4fd2-4dcc-4b2c...@googlegroups.com...
> On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 5:39:12 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> ...
> >
> > I missed that you wrote 5 dBmV, not the dBm I'm used to. 5 dBmV is too
> > small
> > for a good scope display.
>
> Some of the older Wavetek CATV Signal Level Meters have a built in spectrum
> analyzer function that you connect to an oscilloscope for the display. They
> are in the SAM series like the SAM III shown
> here:https://www.ebay.com/itm/144138486196
> A cheaper way is with a SDR, a F to SMA adapter and your computer. There is
> good freeware to operate it from 100KHz to 1.7 GHz.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/304033297816
> 0dBmV is 1 milivolt.
> Here is a good page comparing the older DOCSIS 3.0 to the current 3.1,
> including the RF frequencies used:
> https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/technologies/cable_tv/docsis/docsis-technology/docsis_technology_55513.html
> ------------------------
>
> Thanks. Digital encoding is one of the most complex and difficult subjects
> I've studied, up there with chemical Thermodynamics.
> The 0 dBm (1mW, 50 Ohms) I assumed is 0.632V p-p on a scope. Usually I
> measured signals with a vector network analyzer.

Here is another useful website:
http://rfcafe.com/

"Michael Terrell" wrote in message
news:4dd4f6ec-ef0f-470c-bb41-9d6b20c1c9a7n@googlegroups.com...
....
Here is another useful website:
http://rfcafe.com/

---------------------

Thanks. I've put solar and RF electronics aside for the time and my home
project problems have all been calculating loads on steel beams, columns and
their connections. That overhead gantry hoist did successfully lift and move
a 2130 Lb oak log onto my sawmill. The fallen trees have all been cut into
timber framing beams and very nice foot-wide knot-free boards.

On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:22:43 AM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Michael Terrell" wrote in message
> news:4dd4f6ec-ef0f-470c...@googlegroups.com...
> ...
> Here is another useful website:
> http://rfcafe.com/
> ---------------------
>
> Thanks. I've put solar and RF electronics aside for the time and my home
> project problems have all been calculating loads on steel beams, columns and
> their connections. That overhead gantry hoist did successfully lift and move
> a 2130 Lb oak log onto my sawmill. The fallen trees have all been cut into
> timber framing beams and very nice foot-wide knot-free boards.

No problem. I have a bunch of other useful links, if you ever need them. I have registered a domain name, to rebuild the website that was on Earthlink before they died as a Broadband provider. Have fun with your woodworking/carpentry projects.

"Michael Terrell" wrote in message
news:4c14bce6-c8bb-40fe-87a1-c242cc5dc2d1n@googlegroups.com...

On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:22:43 AM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Michael Terrell" wrote in message
> news:4dd4f6ec-ef0f-470c...@googlegroups.com...
> ...
> Here is another useful website:
> http://rfcafe.com/
> ---------------------
>
> Thanks. I've put solar and RF electronics aside for the time and my home
> project problems have all been calculating loads on steel beams, columns
> and
> their connections. That overhead gantry hoist did successfully lift and
> move
> a 2130 Lb oak log onto my sawmill. The fallen trees have all been cut into
> timber framing beams and very nice foot-wide knot-free boards.

No problem. I have a bunch of other useful links, if you ever need them. I
have registered a domain name, to rebuild the website that was on Earthlink
before they died as a Broadband provider. Have fun with your
woodworking/carpentry projects.

---------------------

First the wood has to dry for a year or three. I'm still dealing with
maintenance I had to postpone while working overtime in another state and
taking night classes. The wood was accidental, cleanup of two huge oak trees
that blew down in my front yard. The straight, knot-free trunks were too
good to become firewood.

On Sunday, August 29, 2021 at 9:39:07 AM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
> First the wood has to dry for a year or three. I'm still dealing with
> maintenance I had to postpone while working overtime in another state and
> taking night classes. The wood was accidental, cleanup of two huge oak trees
> that blew down in my front yard. The straight, knot-free trunks were too
> good to become firewood.

Cabinet grade oak? :)

"Michael Terrell" wrote in message
news:198f2320-ca8b-4c8a-8efb-0a5515243e71n@googlegroups.com...

On Sunday, August 29, 2021 at 9:39:07 AM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
> First the wood has to dry for a year or three. I'm still dealing with
> maintenance I had to postpone while working overtime in another state and
> taking night classes. The wood was accidental, cleanup of two huge oak
> trees
> that blew down in my front yard. The straight, knot-free trunks were too
> good to become firewood.

Cabinet grade oak? :)

---------------------

One side of the trunk gave 8 defect-free boards 12' long and a foot or more
wide, which I'll trim to 10" wide to fit my planer and 11' 6" long to fit
the wall length. The overstuffed book shelves in there now are overlapped 6'
4" long boards that will become the side wall shelves and vertical ends. I
cut that oak in the late 90's because it threatened a neighbor's new pool,
and converted a band saw into a smaller sawmill to salvage its clear lumber.

My father's old cast iron Shopsmith has served pretty well to make custom
cabinet doors and t&g flooring.

On Sunday, August 29, 2021 at 4:03:21 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Michael Terrell" wrote in message
> news:198f2320-ca8b-4c8a...@googlegroups.com...
> On Sunday, August 29, 2021 at 9:39:07 AM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> >
> > First the wood has to dry for a year or three. I'm still dealing with
> > maintenance I had to postpone while working overtime in another state and
> > taking night classes. The wood was accidental, cleanup of two huge oak
> > trees
> > that blew down in my front yard. The straight, knot-free trunks were too
> > good to become firewood.
>
> Cabinet grade oak? :)
> ---------------------
>
> One side of the trunk gave 8 defect-free boards 12' long and a foot or more
> wide, which I'll trim to 10" wide to fit my planer and 11' 6" long to fit
> the wall length. The overstuffed book shelves in there now are overlapped 6'
> 4" long boards that will become the side wall shelves and vertical ends. I
> cut that oak in the late 90's because it threatened a neighbor's new pool,
> and converted a band saw into a smaller sawmill to salvage its clear lumber.
>
> My father's old cast iron Shopsmith has served pretty well to make custom
> cabinet doors and t&g flooring.

That sounds like a plan. I have two of the T&G cutter sets from Harbor Freight for an old shaper/router. That way I din't have to keep taking them apart to change from T to G and back. Just use a gauge to make sure the height is correct. Since plywood is unaffordable at the moment, I'm planning on picking up scrap pallets to break down and turn into T&G subflooring.

"Michael Terrell" wrote in message
news:09ac4e3e-1215-40cb-a6ff-e6538f11ffd2n@googlegroups.com...

That sounds like a plan. I have two of the T&G cutter sets from Harbor
Freight for an old shaper/router. That way I din't have to keep taking them
apart to change from T to G and back. Just use a gauge to make sure the
height is correct. Since plywood is unaffordable at the moment, I'm planning
on picking up scrap pallets to break down and turn into T&G subflooring.

------------------

Have you tried to disassemble pallets before?

I use 40" x 48" pallets for the floors and end walls of my firewood sheds.
The pallets that don't prove strong enough have been almost impossible to
pry apart without splitting the slats, and the dirt in them dulls saw
blades, so I cut them up with a chainsaw that I can file or grind sharp. I
do a lot with recycled material but many damaged pallets are just firewood.

On Sunday, August 29, 2021 at 6:16:22 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
> Have you tried to disassemble pallets before?
>
> I use 40" x 48" pallets for the floors and end walls of my firewood sheds.
> The pallets that don't prove strong enough have been almost impossible to
> pry apart without splitting the slats, and the dirt in them dulls saw
> blades, so I cut them up with a chainsaw that I can file or grind sharp. I
> do a lot with recycled material but many damaged pallets are just firewood.

Yes, I repaired some by taking boards from one to replace them on other pallets, and some that I rebuilt without gaps between the boards. There is a tool to make the job easier, that you can buy or make. Here is an example:
https://ussolid.com/pallet-buster-head-deck-wrecker-heavy-duty-skid-buster-tool-diy.html

"Michael Terrell" wrote in message
news:1fdc4cf8-9af4-4cc5-beaa-84ada36d08fcn@googlegroups.com...

On Sunday, August 29, 2021 at 6:16:22 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
> Have you tried to disassemble pallets before?
>
> I use 40" x 48" pallets for the floors and end walls of my firewood sheds.
> The pallets that don't prove strong enough have been almost impossible to
> pry apart without splitting the slats, and the dirt in them dulls saw
> blades, so I cut them up with a chainsaw that I can file or grind sharp. I
> do a lot with recycled material but many damaged pallets are just
> firewood.

Yes, I repaired some by taking boards from one to replace them on other
pallets, and some that I rebuilt without gaps between the boards. There is a
tool to make the job easier, that you can buy or make. Here is an example:
https://ussolid.com/pallet-buster-head-deck-wrecker-heavy-duty-skid-buster-tool-diy.html

------------------
I just wanted to warn you in case you didn't know how difficult they could
be.

To reduce the cost of my firewood storage sheds I salvage the
pressure-treated beams from replaced decks, from a neighboring contractor's
scrap heap, so I have several large wrecking bars and nail pullers to deal
with ringed and glue nails. The prying tool I used on the pallets is a
3-foot import version of the flat Wonderbar, with its edges ground sharper.
It took some softwood pallets apart successfully but the nails in many
hardwood ones were glued/rusted in too tightly and broke through the slats.
My main pallet source is a garden center that stores their used pallets
outdoors, indoor pallets might be cleaner and easier.

On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 6:48:02 AM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Michael Terrell" wrote in message
> news:1fdc4cf8-9af4-4cc5...@googlegroups.com...
> On Sunday, August 29, 2021 at 6:16:22 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> >
> > Have you tried to disassemble pallets before?
> >
> > I use 40" x 48" pallets for the floors and end walls of my firewood sheds.
> > The pallets that don't prove strong enough have been almost impossible to
> > pry apart without splitting the slats, and the dirt in them dulls saw
> > blades, so I cut them up with a chainsaw that I can file or grind sharp.. I
> > do a lot with recycled material but many damaged pallets are just
> > firewood.
>
> Yes, I repaired some by taking boards from one to replace them on other
> pallets, and some that I rebuilt without gaps between the boards. There is a
> tool to make the job easier, that you can buy or make. Here is an example:
> https://ussolid.com/pallet-buster-head-deck-wrecker-heavy-duty-skid-buster-tool-diy.html
> ------------------
> I just wanted to warn you in case you didn't know how difficult they could
> be.
>
> To reduce the cost of my firewood storage sheds I salvage the
> pressure-treated beams from replaced decks, from a neighboring contractor's
> scrap heap, so I have several large wrecking bars and nail pullers to deal
> with ringed and glue nails. The prying tool I used on the pallets is a
> 3-foot import version of the flat Wonderbar, with its edges ground sharper.
> It took some softwood pallets apart successfully but the nails in many
> hardwood ones were glued/rusted in too tightly and broke through the slats.
> My main pallet source is a garden center that stores their used pallets
> outdoors, indoor pallets might be cleaner and easier..

The pallets I get come from a local company, and were only used once, and are stored indoors. The nails can be a problem on some pieces. I was getting some 10 foot pallets from a glass shop, until they hired a new guy who took them for himself. The long parts were 2" by 8" boards.

"Michael Terrell" wrote in message
news:db892173-6439-415a-a030-3e0c50272ccen@googlegroups.com...

The pallets I get come from a local company, and were only used once, and
are stored indoors. The nails can be a problem on some pieces. I was getting
some 10 foot pallets from a glass shop, until they hired a new guy who took
them for himself. The long parts were 2" by 8" boards.

-------------------

The most useful ones I found were from a kitchen installer and had held
counter tops. The 12' long timbers underneath are large enough that I used
them as shed roof beams. The supply dried up when a new owner milked the
company to death.

On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 5:18:08 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
> The most useful ones I found were from a kitchen installer and had held
> counter tops. The 12' long timbers underneath are large enough that I used
> them as shed roof beams. The supply dried up when a new owner milked the
> company to death.

A HVAC company was doing a lot of work, and received a lot of equipment on those 12 foort pallets, but Covid hit before I could start picking them up.
There was a local pallet maker/repair business for sale back in 2000. A guy I worked with and I were thinking about buying it, but he backed out. It had a hydraulic powered tool to separate the boards to speed up repairs.

"Michael Terrell" wrote in message
news:849f450c-c3b0-4861-bec6-6d11fbe6e7ffn@googlegroups.com...

On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 5:18:08 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
> The most useful ones I found were from a kitchen installer and had held
> counter tops. The 12' long timbers underneath are large enough that I used
> them as shed roof beams. The supply dried up when a new owner milked the
> company to death.

A HVAC company was doing a lot of work, and received a lot of equipment on
those 12 foort pallets, but Covid hit before I could start picking them up.
There was a local pallet maker/repair business for sale back in 2000. A guy
I worked with and I were thinking about buying it, but he backed out. It had
a hydraulic powered tool to separate the boards to speed up repairs.

-----------

I needed to put the roof rack on the Ford Ranger -- it's old enough to have
rain gutters -- and have help loading them.

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 5:24:38 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Michael Terrell" wrote in message
> news:849f450c-c3b0-4861...@googlegroups.com...
> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 5:18:08 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> >
> > The most useful ones I found were from a kitchen installer and had held
> > counter tops. The 12' long timbers underneath are large enough that I used
> > them as shed roof beams. The supply dried up when a new owner milked the
> > company to death.
>
> A HVAC company was doing a lot of work, and received a lot of equipment on
> those 12 foort pallets, but Covid hit before I could start picking them up.
> There was a local pallet maker/repair business for sale back in 2000. A guy
> I worked with and I were thinking about buying it, but he backed out. It had
> a hydraulic powered tool to separate the boards to speed up repairs.
> -----------
>
> I needed to put the roof rack on the Ford Ranger -- it's old enough to have
> rain gutters -- and have help loading them.

My pickup is running, but the deflector under the engine has come loose, so I have to see if I can repair it, or if I'll have to hit a junkyard for one. It is a 1997 Dodge Dakota. I don't want to haul any in my 2016 Grand Caravan.

"Michael Terrell" wrote in message
news:5523b9b4-57e2-4e72-83aa-e653f2a183f3n@googlegroups.com...

My pickup is running, but the deflector under the engine has come loose, so
I have to see if I can repair it, or if I'll have to hit a junkyard for one.
It is a 1997 Dodge Dakota. I don't want to haul any in my 2016 Grand
Caravan.

-------------------------

Autozone has been pretty good for aftermarket parts for my '91. Somewhere
there must be a demand for repairing old US vehicles. The quality/fit isn't
OEM but it's been good enough as-is or with a little tweaking. I've recently
replaced the headlight assemblies, outside mirrors, door window seals and a
while back the radiator support, which is the front crosswise sheet metal
behind the grille. This is a bad rust zone.

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 6:34:20 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
> Autozone has been pretty good for aftermarket parts for my '91. Somewhere
> there must be a demand for repairing old US vehicles. The quality/fit isn't
> OEM but it's been good enough as-is or with a little tweaking. I've recently
> replaced the headlight assemblies, outside mirrors, door window seals and a
> while back the radiator support, which is the front crosswise sheet metal
> behind the grille. This is a bad rust zone.

This is a thick molded black plastic piece that runs from one side of the frame, to the other to keep water from spraying up from wet roads. It would have to come from a junkyard, Autozone doesn't list a replacement, and none of the other sites that I've checked. It's just too old to make it worth stocking..

"Michael Terrell" wrote in message
news:9976439b-6731-4521-8fc8-88ab9ad5b0a8n@googlegroups.com...

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 6:34:20 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
> Autozone has been pretty good for aftermarket parts for my '91. Somewhere
> there must be a demand for repairing old US vehicles. The quality/fit
> isn't
> OEM but it's been good enough as-is or with a little tweaking. I've
> recently
> replaced the headlight assemblies, outside mirrors, door window seals and
> a
> while back the radiator support, which is the front crosswise sheet metal
> behind the grille. This is a bad rust zone.

This is a thick molded black plastic piece that runs from one side of the
frame, to the other to keep water from spraying up from wet roads. It would
have to come from a junkyard, Autozone doesn't list a replacement, and none
of the other sites that I've checked. It's just too old to make it worth
stocking..

---------------------------

I patched the truck's broken plastic radiator shroud by pop-riveting a wide
strip of formed sheet metal over the break. Before buying Clecos I used #5
screws as removable substitutes for 1/8" pop rivets while fitting a patch.
1/8" fender washers can spread the load on the other side. Suitable metal is
galvanized steel of thickness between 22 gauge and salvaged corrugated
roofing, 29 gauge, or 0.030" - 0.040" aluminum. 26 gauge steel is a good
compromise between strength and ease of forming without special tools.

Stovepipe crimping pliers can form curved edge flanges and aircraft shears
cut without much distortion. An anvil is useful but a length of firewood
with one end flat and a depression in the other is enough to form curved
shapes, like costume armor or fender patches. I cut the depression with the
end of a chainsaw. The metal bears on the edges and stretches when you
hammer in the middle, so the shape of the depression doesn't matter, it
could be the hole in the end of large pipe or maybe a brake drum. The
important tool is 3-dimensional visualization of how the simple shapes you
can create by hand will deform to duplicate the curves on the damaged part.

The most difficult sheet metal car part I tried to make was a stainless
steel catalytic converter heat shield. It was a good copy until I tried
punching the louvers, which distorted it, so I bought a galvanized one. I
probably should have formed the louvers separately and riveted them over
slots.