I have Shimano 6700 on my Wilier which is all OEM and was made for Wilier as far as brakes crankset. I want to go to R7000 I know the shifting will be better as dialing in the 6700 works but little room for error.

My question is do I really need the r7000 cranks to get the best performance? I am pretty sure they will work fine. My current cranks are FSA customs done for Wilier carbon cranks and I have never had a bit of trouble with them External BB and the cranks spin great.

Frankly I could go cheap and just get the shifters and the FD, RD ( long cage) and a new chain. I have 11 speed cassettes and I just don't know about the brakes if they will suffer performance.

I need some thoughts and any real world experience with this
Deacon mark

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 11:51:33 AM UTC-8, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> I have Shimano 6700 on my Wilier which is all OEM and was made for Wilier as far as brakes crankset. I want to go to R7000 I know the shifting will be better as dialing in the 6700 works but little room for error.
>
> My question is do I really need the r7000 cranks to get the best performance? I am pretty sure they will work fine. My current cranks are FSA customs done for Wilier carbon cranks and I have never had a bit of trouble with them External BB and the cranks spin great.
>
> Frankly I could go cheap and just get the shifters and the FD, RD ( long cage) and a new chain. I have 11 speed cassettes and I just don't know about the brakes if they will suffer performance.
>
> I need some thoughts and any real world experience with this
> Deacon mark

Deacon, I think that the difference between the 6700 and the 6800 was internal cabling which while it worked was kind of a pain in the butt to thread through there. The 7000 is different only visually and because you can buy them as they are more recent and your local bike shop can probably get them new.

Unless you're having shifting problems with the 6700 I can't recommend changing them and the 6800 and 7000 cranks are 5 bolt and 4 bolt and are Shimano hollow cranks and I have broken the Dura Ace versions and heard that the Ultegra cranks have the same weakness. If you decide to get a 7000 crankset watch for any cracks along the edges of the power side shaft. This lets in moisture and that seems to be the cause of corrosion and then failure of the cranks. The 105 cranks are not hollow and don't have the problem.

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 11:51:33 AM UTC-8, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> I have Shimano 6700 on my Wilier which is all OEM and was made for Wilier as far as brakes crankset. I want to go to R7000 I know the shifting will be better as dialing in the 6700 works but little room for error.
>
> My question is do I really need the r7000 cranks to get the best performance? I am pretty sure they will work fine. My current cranks are FSA customs done for Wilier carbon cranks and I have never had a bit of trouble with them External BB and the cranks spin great.
>
> Frankly I could go cheap and just get the shifters and the FD, RD ( long cage) and a new chain. I have 11 speed cassettes and I just don't know about the brakes if they will suffer performance.
>
> I need some thoughts and any real world experience with this
> Deacon mark
Also, the 11th speed on a Campagnolo makes a huge difference because they redesigned the rear derailleur to shift to a 34. But the Shimano 10 speed will already do that and changing to 11 speeds doesn't make any difference. Although I have a 32 on my Campy 11 speeds I don't use it (until winter gets me out of shape).

Pro's are generally not forthcoming concerning their opinions about all of these extra gears but if you could get them to talk about it I would bet they would say that you don't need more than 10. Lance said that you don't need more than 9.

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 8:51:33 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> I have Shimano 6700 on my Wilier which is all OEM and was made for Wilier as far as brakes crankset. I want to go to R7000 I know the shifting will be better as dialing in the 6700 works but little room for error.
>
> My question is do I really need the r7000 cranks to get the best performance? I am pretty sure they will work fine. My current cranks are FSA customs done for Wilier carbon cranks and I have never had a bit of trouble with them External BB and the cranks spin great.
>
> Frankly I could go cheap and just get the shifters and the FD, RD ( long cage) and a new chain. I have 11 speed cassettes and I just don't know about the brakes if they will suffer performance.
>
> I need some thoughts and any real world experience with this
> Deacon mark

First of all, don’t fix what is not broken. Honest question, how many times do you shift your FD during your rides? Anyhow. If you insist on the upgrade to 11 speed I certainly would include the crankset because FD and crankset belong together.

Lou

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 1:43:28 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 8:51:33 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I have Shimano 6700 on my Wilier which is all OEM and was made for Wilier as far as brakes crankset. I want to go to R7000 I know the shifting will be better as dialing in the 6700 works but little room for error.
> >
> > My question is do I really need the r7000 cranks to get the best performance? I am pretty sure they will work fine. My current cranks are FSA customs done for Wilier carbon cranks and I have never had a bit of trouble with them External BB and the cranks spin great.
> >
> > Frankly I could go cheap and just get the shifters and the FD, RD ( long cage) and a new chain. I have 11 speed cassettes and I just don't know about the brakes if they will suffer performance.
> >
> > I need some thoughts and any real world experience with this
> > Deacon mark
> First of all, don’t fix what is not broken. Honest question, how many times do you shift your FD during your rides? Anyhow. If you insist on the upgrade to 11 speed I certainly would include the crankset because FD and crankset belong together.

I think that is probably a good question to ask yourself. If you shift less than three times with the front derailleur during a normal ride Why would you pay so much to replace it?

I understand that you like the idea of really up-to-date equipment but if it makes no difference all you're buying is looks.

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 4:54:57 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 1:43:28 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 8:51:33 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > I have Shimano 6700 on my Wilier which is all OEM and was made for Wilier as far as brakes crankset. I want to go to R7000 I know the shifting will be better as dialing in the 6700 works but little room for error.
> > >
> > > My question is do I really need the r7000 cranks to get the best performance? I am pretty sure they will work fine. My current cranks are FSA customs done for Wilier carbon cranks and I have never had a bit of trouble with them External BB and the cranks spin great.
> > >
> > > Frankly I could go cheap and just get the shifters and the FD, RD ( long cage) and a new chain. I have 11 speed cassettes and I just don't know about the brakes if they will suffer performance.
> > >
> > > I need some thoughts and any real world experience with this
> > > Deacon mark
> > First of all, don’t fix what is not broken. Honest question, how many times do you shift your FD during your rides? Anyhow. If you insist on the upgrade to 11 speed I certainly would include the crankset because FD and crankset belong together.
> I think that is probably a good question to ask yourself. If you shift less than three times with the front derailleur during a normal ride Why would you pay so much to replace it?
>
> I understand that you like the idea of really up-to-date equipment but if it makes no difference all you're buying is looks.

My issue with the 6700 is not the front shifting at all that works fine. It is the rear shifting that can be finicky. I can certainly get it dialed in but it takes a bit of work and once set not much room for error. My 6800 rear shifting on the Habby is incredible and easy to set up in seconds after and cable change or some adjustment. It is also smoother. My Wilier is a nice road bike and still has thread BB which I require.

I can order a whole r7000 groupset from Merlin for $703. I could just get everything but the cranks and BB for $430. I would not mind having 11 spd on the Wilier but perfect smooth shifting like the Habby and easier touch would be nice. I tell you I need some real tec help and opinions from the group as I realize we would rather argue politics but today bikes on my mind.
Deacon Mark

On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 8:03:55 AM UTC-8, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 4:54:57 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 1:43:28 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 8:51:33 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > I have Shimano 6700 on my Wilier which is all OEM and was made for Wilier as far as brakes crankset. I want to go to R7000 I know the shifting will be better as dialing in the 6700 works but little room for error.
> > > >
> > > > My question is do I really need the r7000 cranks to get the best performance? I am pretty sure they will work fine. My current cranks are FSA customs done for Wilier carbon cranks and I have never had a bit of trouble with them External BB and the cranks spin great.
> > > >
> > > > Frankly I could go cheap and just get the shifters and the FD, RD ( long cage) and a new chain. I have 11 speed cassettes and I just don't know about the brakes if they will suffer performance.
> > > >
> > > > I need some thoughts and any real world experience with this
> > > > Deacon mark
> > > First of all, don’t fix what is not broken. Honest question, how many times do you shift your FD during your rides? Anyhow. If you insist on the upgrade to 11 speed I certainly would include the crankset because FD and crankset belong together.
> > I think that is probably a good question to ask yourself. If you shift less than three times with the front derailleur during a normal ride Why would you pay so much to replace it?
> >
> > I understand that you like the idea of really up-to-date equipment but if it makes no difference all you're buying is looks.
> My issue with the 6700 is not the front shifting at all that works fine. It is the rear shifting that can be finicky. I can certainly get it dialed in but it takes a bit of work and once set not much room for error. My 6800 rear shifting on the Habby is incredible and easy to set up in seconds after and cable change or some adjustment. It is also smoother. My Wilier is a nice road bike and still has thread BB which I require.
>
> I can order a whole r7000 groupset from Merlin for $703. I could just get everything but the cranks and BB for $430. I would not mind having 11 spd on the Wilier but perfect smooth shifting like the Habby and easier touch would be nice. I tell you I need some real tec help and opinions from the group as I realize we would rather argue politics but today bikes on my mind.

The finicky rear shifting is normally caused by wear on the ratchet assembly and I have always found it better to simply replace the whole thing. Paying $703 for an R7000 makes it too good a deal to turn down.

On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 5:03:55 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 4:54:57 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 1:43:28 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 8:51:33 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > I have Shimano 6700 on my Wilier which is all OEM and was made for Wilier as far as brakes crankset. I want to go to R7000 I know the shifting will be better as dialing in the 6700 works but little room for error.
> > > >
> > > > My question is do I really need the r7000 cranks to get the best performance? I am pretty sure they will work fine. My current cranks are FSA customs done for Wilier carbon cranks and I have never had a bit of trouble with them External BB and the cranks spin great.
> > > >
> > > > Frankly I could go cheap and just get the shifters and the FD, RD ( long cage) and a new chain. I have 11 speed cassettes and I just don't know about the brakes if they will suffer performance.
> > > >
> > > > I need some thoughts and any real world experience with this
> > > > Deacon mark
> > > First of all, don’t fix what is not broken. Honest question, how many times do you shift your FD during your rides? Anyhow. If you insist on the upgrade to 11 speed I certainly would include the crankset because FD and crankset belong together.
> > I think that is probably a good question to ask yourself. If you shift less than three times with the front derailleur during a normal ride Why would you pay so much to replace it?
> >
> > I understand that you like the idea of really up-to-date equipment but if it makes no difference all you're buying is looks.
> My issue with the 6700 is not the front shifting at all that works fine. It is the rear shifting that can be finicky. I can certainly get it dialed in but it takes a bit of work and once set not much room for error. My 6800 rear shifting on the Habby is incredible and easy to set up in seconds after and cable change or some adjustment. It is also smoother. My Wilier is a nice road bike and still has thread BB which I require.
>
> I can order a whole r7000 groupset from Merlin for $703. I could just get everything but the cranks and BB for $430. I would not mind having 11 spd on the Wilier but perfect smooth shifting like the Habby and easier touch would be nice. I tell you I need some real tec help and opinions from the group as I realize we would rather argue politics but today bikes on my mind.

I can't imagine why a 6700 RD (10 sp) is more difficult to setup/adjust than a 6800 RD (11 sp). Can it be that it is a frame/cable run issue and that you run into the same problems on that frame with a R7000 setup?

Lou

On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 9:48:50 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 5:03:55 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 4:54:57 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 1:43:28 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 8:51:33 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > I have Shimano 6700 on my Wilier which is all OEM and was made for Wilier as far as brakes crankset. I want to go to R7000 I know the shifting will be better as dialing in the 6700 works but little room for error.
> > > > >
> > > > > My question is do I really need the r7000 cranks to get the best performance? I am pretty sure they will work fine. My current cranks are FSA customs done for Wilier carbon cranks and I have never had a bit of trouble with them External BB and the cranks spin great.
> > > > >
> > > > > Frankly I could go cheap and just get the shifters and the FD, RD ( long cage) and a new chain. I have 11 speed cassettes and I just don't know about the brakes if they will suffer performance.
> > > > >
> > > > > I need some thoughts and any real world experience with this
> > > > > Deacon mark
> > > > First of all, don’t fix what is not broken. Honest question, how many times do you shift your FD during your rides? Anyhow. If you insist on the upgrade to 11 speed I certainly would include the crankset because FD and crankset belong together.
> > > I think that is probably a good question to ask yourself. If you shift less than three times with the front derailleur during a normal ride Why would you pay so much to replace it?
> > >
> > > I understand that you like the idea of really up-to-date equipment but if it makes no difference all you're buying is looks.
> > My issue with the 6700 is not the front shifting at all that works fine.. It is the rear shifting that can be finicky. I can certainly get it dialed in but it takes a bit of work and once set not much room for error. My 6800 rear shifting on the Habby is incredible and easy to set up in seconds after and cable change or some adjustment. It is also smoother. My Wilier is a nice road bike and still has thread BB which I require.
> >
> > I can order a whole r7000 groupset from Merlin for $703. I could just get everything but the cranks and BB for $430. I would not mind having 11 spd on the Wilier but perfect smooth shifting like the Habby and easier touch would be nice. I tell you I need some real tec help and opinions from the group as I realize we would rather argue politics but today bikes on my mind.
> I can't imagine why a 6700 RD (10 sp) is more difficult to setup/adjust than a 6800 RD (11 sp). Can it be that it is a frame/cable run issue and that you run into the same problems on that frame with a R7000 setup?

Shimano shifting is extremely reliable. Much better than the older 10 speed Campy stuff. I have sufficient faith in the Deacon to assume that he knows how to check the cable runs and lube the levers. This leaves such bad shifting to worn ratchet mechanism in the levers. An entire new Groupset for $703 is a steal and rather than try and buy a full group in pieces which would cost more, just buy the R7000.

On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 12:41:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 9:48:50 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 5:03:55 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 4:54:57 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 1:43:28 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 8:51:33 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > I have Shimano 6700 on my Wilier which is all OEM and was made for Wilier as far as brakes crankset. I want to go to R7000 I know the shifting will be better as dialing in the 6700 works but little room for error.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My question is do I really need the r7000 cranks to get the best performance? I am pretty sure they will work fine. My current cranks are FSA customs done for Wilier carbon cranks and I have never had a bit of trouble with them External BB and the cranks spin great.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Frankly I could go cheap and just get the shifters and the FD, RD ( long cage) and a new chain. I have 11 speed cassettes and I just don't know about the brakes if they will suffer performance.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I need some thoughts and any real world experience with this
> > > > > > Deacon mark
> > > > > First of all, don’t fix what is not broken. Honest question, how many times do you shift your FD during your rides? Anyhow. If you insist on the upgrade to 11 speed I certainly would include the crankset because FD and crankset belong together.
> > > > I think that is probably a good question to ask yourself. If you shift less than three times with the front derailleur during a normal ride Why would you pay so much to replace it?
> > > >
> > > > I understand that you like the idea of really up-to-date equipment but if it makes no difference all you're buying is looks.
> > > My issue with the 6700 is not the front shifting at all that works fine. It is the rear shifting that can be finicky. I can certainly get it dialed in but it takes a bit of work and once set not much room for error. My 6800 rear shifting on the Habby is incredible and easy to set up in seconds after and cable change or some adjustment. It is also smoother. My Wilier is a nice road bike and still has thread BB which I require.
> > >
> > > I can order a whole r7000 groupset from Merlin for $703. I could just get everything but the cranks and BB for $430. I would not mind having 11 spd on the Wilier but perfect smooth shifting like the Habby and easier touch would be nice. I tell you I need some real tec help and opinions from the group as I realize we would rather argue politics but today bikes on my mind.
> > I can't imagine why a 6700 RD (10 sp) is more difficult to setup/adjust than a 6800 RD (11 sp). Can it be that it is a frame/cable run issue and that you run into the same problems on that frame with a R7000 setup?
> Shimano shifting is extremely reliable. Much better than the older 10 speed Campy stuff. I have sufficient faith in the Deacon to assume that he knows how to check the cable runs and lube the levers. This leaves such bad shifting to worn ratchet mechanism in the levers. An entire new Groupset for $703 is a steal and rather than try and buy a full group in pieces which would cost more, just buy the R7000.

Lou I think it is a known situation that with the 6700 groupset some of the tight bends required by some frames made shifting less that the best. My Wilier has the buried cables in the frame and then goes back through the chainstay inside the frame. It is a pain in the butt the change cables but I have a system that makes it work pretty fast. Myself I really think this a bit to do with the shifting performance too. I don't mind the cables in the toptube but I wish they were exposed on the outside the the chainstay. I can dial the shifting but let me tell you my 6800 on the Habby is simply way more efficient and smooth. Almost zero sound and never misses a shift. The amount of pressure to shift is less to easy to shift. The 6700 is no hard to shift just takes a bit more muscle.

The other option is to sell my Wilier and buy a new bike with disk brakes and the rest. Lynskey R300 is looking very good at the moment and so anyone want this Wilier I probably could do that.
Deacon Mark

On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 9:30:47 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 12:41:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 9:48:50 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 5:03:55 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 4:54:57 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 1:43:28 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 8:51:33 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > I have Shimano 6700 on my Wilier which is all OEM and was made for Wilier as far as brakes crankset. I want to go to R7000 I know the shifting will be better as dialing in the 6700 works but little room for error.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My question is do I really need the r7000 cranks to get the best performance? I am pretty sure they will work fine. My current cranks are FSA customs done for Wilier carbon cranks and I have never had a bit of trouble with them External BB and the cranks spin great.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Frankly I could go cheap and just get the shifters and the FD, RD ( long cage) and a new chain. I have 11 speed cassettes and I just don't know about the brakes if they will suffer performance.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I need some thoughts and any real world experience with this
> > > > > > > Deacon mark
> > > > > > First of all, don’t fix what is not broken. Honest question, how many times do you shift your FD during your rides? Anyhow. If you insist on the upgrade to 11 speed I certainly would include the crankset because FD and crankset belong together.
> > > > > I think that is probably a good question to ask yourself. If you shift less than three times with the front derailleur during a normal ride Why would you pay so much to replace it?
> > > > >
> > > > > I understand that you like the idea of really up-to-date equipment but if it makes no difference all you're buying is looks.
> > > > My issue with the 6700 is not the front shifting at all that works fine. It is the rear shifting that can be finicky. I can certainly get it dialed in but it takes a bit of work and once set not much room for error. My 6800 rear shifting on the Habby is incredible and easy to set up in seconds after and cable change or some adjustment. It is also smoother. My Wilier is a nice road bike and still has thread BB which I require.
> > > >
> > > > I can order a whole r7000 groupset from Merlin for $703. I could just get everything but the cranks and BB for $430. I would not mind having 11 spd on the Wilier but perfect smooth shifting like the Habby and easier touch would be nice. I tell you I need some real tec help and opinions from the group as I realize we would rather argue politics but today bikes on my mind.
> > > I can't imagine why a 6700 RD (10 sp) is more difficult to setup/adjust than a 6800 RD (11 sp). Can it be that it is a frame/cable run issue and that you run into the same problems on that frame with a R7000 setup?
> > Shimano shifting is extremely reliable. Much better than the older 10 speed Campy stuff. I have sufficient faith in the Deacon to assume that he knows how to check the cable runs and lube the levers. This leaves such bad shifting to worn ratchet mechanism in the levers. An entire new Groupset for $703 is a steal and rather than try and buy a full group in pieces which would cost more, just buy the R7000.
> Lou I think it is a known situation that with the 6700 groupset some of the tight bends required by some frames made shifting less that the best. My Wilier has the buried cables in the frame and then goes back through the chainstay inside the frame. It is a pain in the butt the change cables but I have a system that makes it work pretty fast. Myself I really think this a bit to do with the shifting performance too. I don't mind the cables in the toptube but I wish they were exposed on the outside the the chainstay. I can dial the shifting but let me tell you my 6800 on the Habby is simply way more efficient and smooth. Almost zero sound and never misses a shift. The amount of pressure to shift is less to easy to shift. The 6700 is no hard to shift just takes a bit more muscle.
>
> The other option is to sell my Wilier and buy a new bike with disk brakes and the rest. Lynskey R300 is looking very good at the moment and so anyone want this Wilier I probably could do that.
> Deacon Mark

It is up to you Mark. I'm not an 'upgrade' guy. I ride my bikes in all conditions and if something is broken I fix it, if not I leave it as it is. Only when I buy a new bike I will look at the new 'developments' and most of the time I will go with the flow if it makes sense. The Lynskey is looking nice.

Lou

On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 8:54:25 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 9:30:47 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 12:41:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 9:48:50 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 5:03:55 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 4:54:57 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 1:43:28 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 8:51:33 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > I have Shimano 6700 on my Wilier which is all OEM and was made for Wilier as far as brakes crankset. I want to go to R7000 I know the shifting will be better as dialing in the 6700 works but little room for error.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My question is do I really need the r7000 cranks to get the best performance? I am pretty sure they will work fine. My current cranks are FSA customs done for Wilier carbon cranks and I have never had a bit of trouble with them External BB and the cranks spin great.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Frankly I could go cheap and just get the shifters and the FD, RD ( long cage) and a new chain. I have 11 speed cassettes and I just don't know about the brakes if they will suffer performance.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I need some thoughts and any real world experience with this
> > > > > > > > Deacon mark
> > > > > > > First of all, don’t fix what is not broken. Honest question, how many times do you shift your FD during your rides? Anyhow. If you insist on the upgrade to 11 speed I certainly would include the crankset because FD and crankset belong together.
> > > > > > I think that is probably a good question to ask yourself. If you shift less than three times with the front derailleur during a normal ride Why would you pay so much to replace it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I understand that you like the idea of really up-to-date equipment but if it makes no difference all you're buying is looks.
> > > > > My issue with the 6700 is not the front shifting at all that works fine. It is the rear shifting that can be finicky. I can certainly get it dialed in but it takes a bit of work and once set not much room for error. My 6800 rear shifting on the Habby is incredible and easy to set up in seconds after and cable change or some adjustment. It is also smoother. My Wilier is a nice road bike and still has thread BB which I require.
> > > > >
> > > > > I can order a whole r7000 groupset from Merlin for $703. I could just get everything but the cranks and BB for $430. I would not mind having 11 spd on the Wilier but perfect smooth shifting like the Habby and easier touch would be nice. I tell you I need some real tec help and opinions from the group as I realize we would rather argue politics but today bikes on my mind.
> > > > I can't imagine why a 6700 RD (10 sp) is more difficult to setup/adjust than a 6800 RD (11 sp). Can it be that it is a frame/cable run issue and that you run into the same problems on that frame with a R7000 setup?
> > > Shimano shifting is extremely reliable. Much better than the older 10 speed Campy stuff. I have sufficient faith in the Deacon to assume that he knows how to check the cable runs and lube the levers. This leaves such bad shifting to worn ratchet mechanism in the levers. An entire new Groupset for $703 is a steal and rather than try and buy a full group in pieces which would cost more, just buy the R7000.
> > Lou I think it is a known situation that with the 6700 groupset some of the tight bends required by some frames made shifting less that the best. My Wilier has the buried cables in the frame and then goes back through the chainstay inside the frame. It is a pain in the butt the change cables but I have a system that makes it work pretty fast. Myself I really think this a bit to do with the shifting performance too. I don't mind the cables in the toptube but I wish they were exposed on the outside the the chainstay. I can dial the shifting but let me tell you my 6800 on the Habby is simply way more efficient and smooth. Almost zero sound and never misses a shift. The amount of pressure to shift is less to easy to shift. The 6700 is no hard to shift just takes a bit more muscle.
> >
> > The other option is to sell my Wilier and buy a new bike with disk brakes and the rest. Lynskey R300 is looking very good at the moment and so anyone want this Wilier I probably could do that.
> > Deacon Mark
> It is up to you Mark. I'm not an 'upgrade' guy. I ride my bikes in all conditions and if something is broken I fix it, if not I leave it as it is. Only when I buy a new bike I will look at the new 'developments' and most of the time I will go with the flow if it makes sense. The Lynskey is looking nice.

Many. "new developments" aren't talked about much. For instance - an 11 speed chain is all hell and gone better than a 9 speed chain. After my hot waxing all of my chains and putting another 1,000 miles on them, they have yet to start making noises. 9 speed chains didn't seem to last 200 miles before requiring a new wax job. Plus 11 speed chains are very much more flexible than 9 speeds.

On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 6:06:07 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 8:54:25 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 9:30:47 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 12:41:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 9:48:50 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 5:03:55 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 4:54:57 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 1:43:28 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 8:51:33 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > I have Shimano 6700 on my Wilier which is all OEM and was made for Wilier as far as brakes crankset. I want to go to R7000 I know the shifting will be better as dialing in the 6700 works but little room for error.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > My question is do I really need the r7000 cranks to get the best performance? I am pretty sure they will work fine. My current cranks are FSA customs done for Wilier carbon cranks and I have never had a bit of trouble with them External BB and the cranks spin great.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Frankly I could go cheap and just get the shifters and the FD, RD ( long cage) and a new chain. I have 11 speed cassettes and I just don't know about the brakes if they will suffer performance.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I need some thoughts and any real world experience with this
> > > > > > > > > Deacon mark
> > > > > > > > First of all, don’t fix what is not broken. Honest question, how many times do you shift your FD during your rides? Anyhow. If you insist on the upgrade to 11 speed I certainly would include the crankset because FD and crankset belong together.
> > > > > > > I think that is probably a good question to ask yourself. If you shift less than three times with the front derailleur during a normal ride Why would you pay so much to replace it?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I understand that you like the idea of really up-to-date equipment but if it makes no difference all you're buying is looks.
> > > > > > My issue with the 6700 is not the front shifting at all that works fine. It is the rear shifting that can be finicky. I can certainly get it dialed in but it takes a bit of work and once set not much room for error. My 6800 rear shifting on the Habby is incredible and easy to set up in seconds after and cable change or some adjustment. It is also smoother. My Wilier is a nice road bike and still has thread BB which I require.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I can order a whole r7000 groupset from Merlin for $703. I could just get everything but the cranks and BB for $430. I would not mind having 11 spd on the Wilier but perfect smooth shifting like the Habby and easier touch would be nice. I tell you I need some real tec help and opinions from the group as I realize we would rather argue politics but today bikes on my mind.
> > > > > I can't imagine why a 6700 RD (10 sp) is more difficult to setup/adjust than a 6800 RD (11 sp). Can it be that it is a frame/cable run issue and that you run into the same problems on that frame with a R7000 setup?
> > > > Shimano shifting is extremely reliable. Much better than the older 10 speed Campy stuff. I have sufficient faith in the Deacon to assume that he knows how to check the cable runs and lube the levers. This leaves such bad shifting to worn ratchet mechanism in the levers. An entire new Groupset for $703 is a steal and rather than try and buy a full group in pieces which would cost more, just buy the R7000.
> > > Lou I think it is a known situation that with the 6700 groupset some of the tight bends required by some frames made shifting less that the best.. My Wilier has the buried cables in the frame and then goes back through the chainstay inside the frame. It is a pain in the butt the change cables but I have a system that makes it work pretty fast. Myself I really think this a bit to do with the shifting performance too. I don't mind the cables in the toptube but I wish they were exposed on the outside the the chainstay.. I can dial the shifting but let me tell you my 6800 on the Habby is simply way more efficient and smooth. Almost zero sound and never misses a shift.. The amount of pressure to shift is less to easy to shift. The 6700 is no hard to shift just takes a bit more muscle.
> > >
> > > The other option is to sell my Wilier and buy a new bike with disk brakes and the rest. Lynskey R300 is looking very good at the moment and so anyone want this Wilier I probably could do that.
> > > Deacon Mark
> > It is up to you Mark. I'm not an 'upgrade' guy. I ride my bikes in all conditions and if something is broken I fix it, if not I leave it as it is. Only when I buy a new bike I will look at the new 'developments' and most of the time I will go with the flow if it makes sense. The Lynskey is looking nice.
> Many. "new developments" aren't talked about much. For instance - an 11 speed chain is all hell and gone better than a 9 speed chain. After my hot waxing all of my chains and putting another 1,000 miles on them, they have yet to start making noises. 9 speed chains didn't seem to last 200 miles before requiring a new wax job. Plus 11 speed chains are very much more flexible than 9 speeds.

I don't know about that, but I always contradicted that 11 speed chains wear faster than 9-10 sp because that was and is not my experience of actually using those chains. They only are more expensive.

Lou

On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 9:51:11 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 6:06:07 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 8:54:25 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 9:30:47 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 12:41:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 9:48:50 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 5:03:55 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 4:54:57 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 1:43:28 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 8:51:33 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > I have Shimano 6700 on my Wilier which is all OEM and was made for Wilier as far as brakes crankset. I want to go to R7000 I know the shifting will be better as dialing in the 6700 works but little room for error.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > My question is do I really need the r7000 cranks to get the best performance? I am pretty sure they will work fine. My current cranks are FSA customs done for Wilier carbon cranks and I have never had a bit of trouble with them External BB and the cranks spin great.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Frankly I could go cheap and just get the shifters and the FD, RD ( long cage) and a new chain. I have 11 speed cassettes and I just don't know about the brakes if they will suffer performance.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I need some thoughts and any real world experience with this
> > > > > > > > > > Deacon mark
> > > > > > > > > First of all, don’t fix what is not broken. Honest question, how many times do you shift your FD during your rides? Anyhow. If you insist on the upgrade to 11 speed I certainly would include the crankset because FD and crankset belong together.
> > > > > > > > I think that is probably a good question to ask yourself. If you shift less than three times with the front derailleur during a normal ride Why would you pay so much to replace it?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I understand that you like the idea of really up-to-date equipment but if it makes no difference all you're buying is looks.
> > > > > > > My issue with the 6700 is not the front shifting at all that works fine. It is the rear shifting that can be finicky. I can certainly get it dialed in but it takes a bit of work and once set not much room for error. My 6800 rear shifting on the Habby is incredible and easy to set up in seconds after and cable change or some adjustment. It is also smoother. My Wilier is a nice road bike and still has thread BB which I require.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I can order a whole r7000 groupset from Merlin for $703. I could just get everything but the cranks and BB for $430. I would not mind having 11 spd on the Wilier but perfect smooth shifting like the Habby and easier touch would be nice. I tell you I need some real tec help and opinions from the group as I realize we would rather argue politics but today bikes on my mind.
> > > > > > I can't imagine why a 6700 RD (10 sp) is more difficult to setup/adjust than a 6800 RD (11 sp). Can it be that it is a frame/cable run issue and that you run into the same problems on that frame with a R7000 setup?
> > > > > Shimano shifting is extremely reliable. Much better than the older 10 speed Campy stuff. I have sufficient faith in the Deacon to assume that he knows how to check the cable runs and lube the levers. This leaves such bad shifting to worn ratchet mechanism in the levers. An entire new Groupset for $703 is a steal and rather than try and buy a full group in pieces which would cost more, just buy the R7000.
> > > > Lou I think it is a known situation that with the 6700 groupset some of the tight bends required by some frames made shifting less that the best. My Wilier has the buried cables in the frame and then goes back through the chainstay inside the frame. It is a pain in the butt the change cables but I have a system that makes it work pretty fast. Myself I really think this a bit to do with the shifting performance too. I don't mind the cables in the toptube but I wish they were exposed on the outside the the chainstay. I can dial the shifting but let me tell you my 6800 on the Habby is simply way more efficient and smooth. Almost zero sound and never misses a shift. The amount of pressure to shift is less to easy to shift. The 6700 is no hard to shift just takes a bit more muscle.
> > > >
> > > > The other option is to sell my Wilier and buy a new bike with disk brakes and the rest. Lynskey R300 is looking very good at the moment and so anyone want this Wilier I probably could do that.
> > > > Deacon Mark
> > > It is up to you Mark. I'm not an 'upgrade' guy. I ride my bikes in all conditions and if something is broken I fix it, if not I leave it as it is. Only when I buy a new bike I will look at the new 'developments' and most of the time I will go with the flow if it makes sense. The Lynskey is looking nice.
> > Many. "new developments" aren't talked about much. For instance - an 11 speed chain is all hell and gone better than a 9 speed chain. After my hot waxing all of my chains and putting another 1,000 miles on them, they have yet to start making noises. 9 speed chains didn't seem to last 200 miles before requiring a new wax job. Plus 11 speed chains are very much more flexible than 9 speeds.
> I don't know about that, but I always contradicted that 11 speed chains wear faster than 9-10 sp because that was and is not my experience of actually using those chains. They only are more expensive.

Since you made that statement I started tracking wear on my 11 speeds and indeed they wear a great deal better than 10 speed though I can't see that they're made any better.

On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 1:15:04 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 9:51:11 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 6:06:07 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 8:54:25 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 9:30:47 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 12:41:24 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 9:48:50 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > > > On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 5:03:55 PM UTC+1, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 4:54:57 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 1:43:28 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 8:51:33 PM UTC+1, deaco....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > I have Shimano 6700 on my Wilier which is all OEM and was made for Wilier as far as brakes crankset. I want to go to R7000 I know the shifting will be better as dialing in the 6700 works but little room for error.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > My question is do I really need the r7000 cranks to get the best performance? I am pretty sure they will work fine. My current cranks are FSA customs done for Wilier carbon cranks and I have never had a bit of trouble with them External BB and the cranks spin great.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Frankly I could go cheap and just get the shifters and the FD, RD ( long cage) and a new chain. I have 11 speed cassettes and I just don't know about the brakes if they will suffer performance.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I need some thoughts and any real world experience with this
> > > > > > > > > > > Deacon mark
> > > > > > > > > > First of all, don’t fix what is not broken. Honest question, how many times do you shift your FD during your rides? Anyhow.. If you insist on the upgrade to 11 speed I certainly would include the crankset because FD and crankset belong together.
> > > > > > > > > I think that is probably a good question to ask yourself. If you shift less than three times with the front derailleur during a normal ride Why would you pay so much to replace it?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I understand that you like the idea of really up-to-date equipment but if it makes no difference all you're buying is looks.
> > > > > > > > My issue with the 6700 is not the front shifting at all that works fine. It is the rear shifting that can be finicky. I can certainly get it dialed in but it takes a bit of work and once set not much room for error. My 6800 rear shifting on the Habby is incredible and easy to set up in seconds after and cable change or some adjustment. It is also smoother. My Wilier is a nice road bike and still has thread BB which I require.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I can order a whole r7000 groupset from Merlin for $703. I could just get everything but the cranks and BB for $430. I would not mind having 11 spd on the Wilier but perfect smooth shifting like the Habby and easier touch would be nice. I tell you I need some real tec help and opinions from the group as I realize we would rather argue politics but today bikes on my mind.
> > > > > > > I can't imagine why a 6700 RD (10 sp) is more difficult to setup/adjust than a 6800 RD (11 sp). Can it be that it is a frame/cable run issue and that you run into the same problems on that frame with a R7000 setup?
> > > > > > Shimano shifting is extremely reliable. Much better than the older 10 speed Campy stuff. I have sufficient faith in the Deacon to assume that he knows how to check the cable runs and lube the levers. This leaves such bad shifting to worn ratchet mechanism in the levers. An entire new Groupset for $703 is a steal and rather than try and buy a full group in pieces which would cost more, just buy the R7000.
> > > > > Lou I think it is a known situation that with the 6700 groupset some of the tight bends required by some frames made shifting less that the best. My Wilier has the buried cables in the frame and then goes back through the chainstay inside the frame. It is a pain in the butt the change cables but I have a system that makes it work pretty fast. Myself I really think this a bit to do with the shifting performance too. I don't mind the cables in the toptube but I wish they were exposed on the outside the the chainstay. I can dial the shifting but let me tell you my 6800 on the Habby is simply way more efficient and smooth. Almost zero sound and never misses a shift. The amount of pressure to shift is less to easy to shift. The 6700 is no hard to shift just takes a bit more muscle.
> > > > >
> > > > > The other option is to sell my Wilier and buy a new bike with disk brakes and the rest. Lynskey R300 is looking very good at the moment and so anyone want this Wilier I probably could do that.
> > > > > Deacon Mark
> > > > It is up to you Mark. I'm not an 'upgrade' guy. I ride my bikes in all conditions and if something is broken I fix it, if not I leave it as it is. Only when I buy a new bike I will look at the new 'developments' and most of the time I will go with the flow if it makes sense. The Lynskey is looking nice.
> > > Many. "new developments" aren't talked about much. For instance - an 11 speed chain is all hell and gone better than a 9 speed chain. After my hot waxing all of my chains and putting another 1,000 miles on them, they have yet to start making noises. 9 speed chains didn't seem to last 200 miles before requiring a new wax job. Plus 11 speed chains are very much more flexible than 9 speeds.
> > I don't know about that, but I always contradicted that 11 speed chains wear faster than 9-10 sp because that was and is not my experience of actually using those chains. They only are more expensive.
> Since you made that statement I started tracking wear on my 11 speeds and indeed they wear a great deal better than 10 speed though I can't see that they're made any better.

I am easy on chains for sure they last me easily 8000 miles with little stretch. No mountains here and I am not one mash and grind with lots of power. I never have wore a cassette out as such yet. I have over 17,000 miles on one and it works fine on a new chain. I am going to change to an 11-32 though so that will go on my other bike. I also get huge mileage out of tires.
Deacon mark

On 1/4/2022 3:58 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>
>
> I am easy on chains for sure they last me easily 8000 miles with little stretch. No mountains here and I am not one mash and grind with lots of power. I never have wore a cassette out as such yet. I have over 17,000 miles on one and it works fine on a new chain. I am going to change to an 11-32 though so that will go on my other bike. I also get huge mileage out of tires.
> Deacon mark

That cassette life amazes me!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 3:49:06 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/4/2022 3:58 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> >
> >
> > I am easy on chains for sure they last me easily 8000 miles with little stretch. No mountains here and I am not one mash and grind with lots of power. I never have wore a cassette out as such yet. I have over 17,000 miles on one and it works fine on a new chain. I am going to change to an 11-32 though so that will go on my other bike. I also get huge mileage out of tires.
> > Deacon mark
> That cassette life amazes me!

Frank, you use fewer speeds and more robust chains, so why would a mere 8000 miles surprise you? With all of the climbing I do, I still manage at least 10,000 miles on a chain. Though they do have to be cleaned and rewaxed in there somewhere. I just pulled the chain off of my Merlin yesterday to get the frame ready to sell, and the chain was covered in some black crap similar to chain oil. I don't think I oiled that chain but it will need a good cleaning and rewaxing to install it on the Trek.

On 1/5/2022 11:06 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 3:49:06 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 1/4/2022 3:58 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I am easy on chains for sure they last me easily 8000 miles with little stretch. No mountains here and I am not one mash and grind with lots of power. I never have wore a cassette out as such yet. I have over 17,000 miles on one and it works fine on a new chain. I am going to change to an 11-32 though so that will go on my other bike. I also get huge mileage out of tires.
>>> Deacon mark
>> That cassette life amazes me!
>
> Frank, you use fewer speeds and more robust chains, so why would a mere 8000 miles surprise you? With all of the climbing I do, I still manage at least 10,000 miles on a chain. Though they do have to be cleaned and rewaxed in there somewhere. I just pulled the chain off of my Merlin yesterday to get the frame ready to sell, and the chain was covered in some black crap similar to chain oil. I don't think I oiled that chain but it will need a good cleaning and rewaxing to install it on the Trek.

Reread, Tom. I said it was the cassette mileage that amazed me. 17,000
miles is a lot.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 8:33:13 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/5/2022 11:06 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 3:49:06 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 1/4/2022 3:58 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I am easy on chains for sure they last me easily 8000 miles with little stretch. No mountains here and I am not one mash and grind with lots of power. I never have wore a cassette out as such yet. I have over 17,000 miles on one and it works fine on a new chain. I am going to change to an 11-32 though so that will go on my other bike. I also get huge mileage out of tires.
> >>> Deacon mark
> >> That cassette life amazes me!
> >
> > Frank, you use fewer speeds and more robust chains, so why would a mere 8000 miles surprise you? With all of the climbing I do, I still manage at least 10,000 miles on a chain. Though they do have to be cleaned and rewaxed in there somewhere. I just pulled the chain off of my Merlin yesterday to get the frame ready to sell, and the chain was covered in some black crap similar to chain oil. I don't think I oiled that chain but it will need a good cleaning and rewaxing to install it on the Trek.
> Reread, Tom. I said it was the cassette mileage that amazed me. 17,000
> miles is a lot.
Is this somewhat different? If I'm getting 10,000 miles on a chain, why would it be any surprise that I was getting 17 or even 20,000 miles on a cassette. I'm riding mostly in the 23 and 25 tooth cogs which means that they aren't getting much pressure from the cranks. On the climbs I am in the 28 to 32 tooth cogs I'm never in the 11 tooth cog except when riding downhill and that is hardly a way to wear out cogs.

On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 1:40:40 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 8:33:13 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 1/5/2022 11:06 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 3:49:06 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >> On 1/4/2022 3:58 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> I am easy on chains for sure they last me easily 8000 miles with little stretch. No mountains here and I am not one mash and grind with lots of power. I never have wore a cassette out as such yet. I have over 17,000 miles on one and it works fine on a new chain. I am going to change to an 11-32 though so that will go on my other bike. I also get huge mileage out of tires.
> > >>> Deacon mark
> > >> That cassette life amazes me!
> > >
> > > Frank, you use fewer speeds and more robust chains, so why would a mere 8000 miles surprise you? With all of the climbing I do, I still manage at least 10,000 miles on a chain. Though they do have to be cleaned and rewaxed in there somewhere. I just pulled the chain off of my Merlin yesterday to get the frame ready to sell, and the chain was covered in some black crap similar to chain oil. I don't think I oiled that chain but it will need a good cleaning and rewaxing to install it on the Trek.
> > Reread, Tom. I said it was the cassette mileage that amazed me. 17,000
> > miles is a lot.
> Is this somewhat different? If I'm getting 10,000 miles on a chain, why would it be any surprise that I was getting 17 or even 20,000 miles on a cassette. I'm riding mostly in the 23 and 25 tooth cogs which means that they aren't getting much pressure from the cranks. On the climbs I am in the 28 to 32 tooth cogs I'm never in the 11 tooth cog except when riding downhill and that is hardly a way to wear out cogs.

I should also note that my normal mileage for a year is about 6,000 miles and a Shimano warranty is 2 years on their cassettes. Shimano is hardly likely to warranty their cassettes if they think that they're going to give up the ghost in 2 years.

On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 10:56:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 1:40:40 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 8:33:13 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > On 1/5/2022 11:06 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 3:49:06 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > >> On 1/4/2022 3:58 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I am easy on chains for sure they last me easily 8000 miles with little stretch. No mountains here and I am not one mash and grind with lots of power. I never have wore a cassette out as such yet. I have over 17,000 miles on one and it works fine on a new chain. I am going to change to an 11-32 though so that will go on my other bike. I also get huge mileage out of tires.
> > > >>> Deacon mark
> > > >> That cassette life amazes me!
> > > >
> > > > Frank, you use fewer speeds and more robust chains, so why would a mere 8000 miles surprise you? With all of the climbing I do, I still manage at least 10,000 miles on a chain. Though they do have to be cleaned and rewaxed in there somewhere. I just pulled the chain off of my Merlin yesterday to get the frame ready to sell, and the chain was covered in some black crap similar to chain oil. I don't think I oiled that chain but it will need a good cleaning and rewaxing to install it on the Trek.
> > > Reread, Tom. I said it was the cassette mileage that amazed me. 17,000
> > > miles is a lot.
> > Is this somewhat different? If I'm getting 10,000 miles on a chain, why would it be any surprise that I was getting 17 or even 20,000 miles on a cassette. I'm riding mostly in the 23 and 25 tooth cogs which means that they aren't getting much pressure from the cranks. On the climbs I am in the 28 to 32 tooth cogs I'm never in the 11 tooth cog except when riding downhill and that is hardly a way to wear out cogs.
> I should also note that my normal mileage for a year is about 6,000 miles and a Shimano warranty is 2 years on their cassettes. Shimano is hardly likely to warranty their cassettes if they think that they're going to give up the ghost in 2 years.

That is new to me. You get a new cassette when it is worn within 2 years?

Lou

On 1/5/2022 4:00 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 10:56:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 1:40:40 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 8:33:13 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 1/5/2022 11:06 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 3:49:06 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/4/2022 3:58 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am easy on chains for sure they last me easily 8000 miles with little stretch. No mountains here and I am not one mash and grind with lots of power. I never have wore a cassette out as such yet. I have over 17,000 miles on one and it works fine on a new chain. I am going to change to an 11-32 though so that will go on my other bike. I also get huge mileage out of tires.
>>>>>>> Deacon mark
>>>>>> That cassette life amazes me!
>>>>>
>>>>> Frank, you use fewer speeds and more robust chains, so why would a mere 8000 miles surprise you? With all of the climbing I do, I still manage at least 10,000 miles on a chain. Though they do have to be cleaned and rewaxed in there somewhere. I just pulled the chain off of my Merlin yesterday to get the frame ready to sell, and the chain was covered in some black crap similar to chain oil. I don't think I oiled that chain but it will need a good cleaning and rewaxing to install it on the Trek.
>>>> Reread, Tom. I said it was the cassette mileage that amazed me. 17,000
>>>> miles is a lot.
>>> Is this somewhat different? If I'm getting 10,000 miles on a chain, why would it be any surprise that I was getting 17 or even 20,000 miles on a cassette. I'm riding mostly in the 23 and 25 tooth cogs which means that they aren't getting much pressure from the cranks. On the climbs I am in the 28 to 32 tooth cogs I'm never in the 11 tooth cog except when riding downhill and that is hardly a way to wear out cogs.
>> I should also note that my normal mileage for a year is about 6,000 miles and a Shimano warranty is 2 years on their cassettes. Shimano is hardly likely to warranty their cassettes if they think that they're going to give up the ghost in 2 years.
>
> That is new to me. You get a new cassette when it is worn within 2 years?
>
> Lou
>

Urban myth.
It's guaranteed against defect not wear.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 2:42:19 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/5/2022 4:00 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 10:56:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 1:40:40 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 8:33:13 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>> On 1/5/2022 11:06 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>> On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 3:49:06 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>> On 1/4/2022 3:58 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I am easy on chains for sure they last me easily 8000 miles with little stretch. No mountains here and I am not one mash and grind with lots of power. I never have wore a cassette out as such yet. I have over 17,000 miles on one and it works fine on a new chain. I am going to change to an 11-32 though so that will go on my other bike. I also get huge mileage out of tires.
> >>>>>>> Deacon mark
> >>>>>> That cassette life amazes me!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Frank, you use fewer speeds and more robust chains, so why would a mere 8000 miles surprise you? With all of the climbing I do, I still manage at least 10,000 miles on a chain. Though they do have to be cleaned and rewaxed in there somewhere. I just pulled the chain off of my Merlin yesterday to get the frame ready to sell, and the chain was covered in some black crap similar to chain oil. I don't think I oiled that chain but it will need a good cleaning and rewaxing to install it on the Trek.
> >>>> Reread, Tom. I said it was the cassette mileage that amazed me. 17,000
> >>>> miles is a lot.
> >>> Is this somewhat different? If I'm getting 10,000 miles on a chain, why would it be any surprise that I was getting 17 or even 20,000 miles on a cassette. I'm riding mostly in the 23 and 25 tooth cogs which means that they aren't getting much pressure from the cranks. On the climbs I am in the 28 to 32 tooth cogs I'm never in the 11 tooth cog except when riding downhill and that is hardly a way to wear out cogs.
> >> I should also note that my normal mileage for a year is about 6,000 miles and a Shimano warranty is 2 years on their cassettes. Shimano is hardly likely to warranty their cassettes if they think that they're going to give up the ghost in 2 years.
> >
> > That is new to me. You get a new cassette when it is worn within 2 years?
> >
> > Lou
> >
> Urban myth.
> It's guaranteed against defect not wear.

Direct from the warranty: "Warrants that the PRO products are free from defects in materials and workmanship under normal conditions and reasonable use for two years from the date of original retail purchase."

Now I imagine that they could call 20,000 miles on a cassette "unreasonable use" but that would not be good advertising.

On 1/6/2022 11:49 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 2:42:19 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/5/2022 4:00 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 10:56:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 1:40:40 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 8:33:13 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/5/2022 11:06 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 3:49:06 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/4/2022 3:58 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am easy on chains for sure they last me easily 8000 miles with little stretch. No mountains here and I am not one mash and grind with lots of power. I never have wore a cassette out as such yet. I have over 17,000 miles on one and it works fine on a new chain. I am going to change to an 11-32 though so that will go on my other bike. I also get huge mileage out of tires.
>>>>>>>>> Deacon mark
>>>>>>>> That cassette life amazes me!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Frank, you use fewer speeds and more robust chains, so why would a mere 8000 miles surprise you? With all of the climbing I do, I still manage at least 10,000 miles on a chain. Though they do have to be cleaned and rewaxed in there somewhere. I just pulled the chain off of my Merlin yesterday to get the frame ready to sell, and the chain was covered in some black crap similar to chain oil. I don't think I oiled that chain but it will need a good cleaning and rewaxing to install it on the Trek.
>>>>>> Reread, Tom. I said it was the cassette mileage that amazed me. 17,000
>>>>>> miles is a lot.
>>>>> Is this somewhat different? If I'm getting 10,000 miles on a chain, why would it be any surprise that I was getting 17 or even 20,000 miles on a cassette. I'm riding mostly in the 23 and 25 tooth cogs which means that they aren't getting much pressure from the cranks. On the climbs I am in the 28 to 32 tooth cogs I'm never in the 11 tooth cog except when riding downhill and that is hardly a way to wear out cogs.
>>>> I should also note that my normal mileage for a year is about 6,000 miles and a Shimano warranty is 2 years on their cassettes. Shimano is hardly likely to warranty their cassettes if they think that they're going to give up the ghost in 2 years.
>>>
>>> That is new to me. You get a new cassette when it is worn within 2 years?
>>>
>>> Lou
>>>
>> Urban myth.
>> It's guaranteed against defect not wear.
>
> Direct from the warranty: "Warrants that the PRO products are free from defects in materials and workmanship under normal conditions and reasonable use for two years from the date of original retail purchase."
>
> Now I imagine that they could call 20,000 miles on a cassette "unreasonable use" but that would not be good advertising.
>

According to the great philosopher Tom Waits, "The large
print giveth and the small print taketh away."

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, January 6, 2022 at 11:49:58 AM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 2:42:19 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 1/5/2022 4:00 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 10:56:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >> On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 1:40:40 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>> On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 8:33:13 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>> On 1/5/2022 11:06 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>>>> On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 3:49:06 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>>>> On 1/4/2022 3:58 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I am easy on chains for sure they last me easily 8000 miles with little stretch. No mountains here and I am not one mash and grind with lots of power. I never have wore a cassette out as such yet. I have over 17,000 miles on one and it works fine on a new chain. I am going to change to an 11-32 though so that will go on my other bike. I also get huge mileage out of tires.
> > >>>>>>> Deacon mark
> > >>>>>> That cassette life amazes me!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Frank, you use fewer speeds and more robust chains, so why would a mere 8000 miles surprise you? With all of the climbing I do, I still manage at least 10,000 miles on a chain. Though they do have to be cleaned and rewaxed in there somewhere. I just pulled the chain off of my Merlin yesterday to get the frame ready to sell, and the chain was covered in some black crap similar to chain oil. I don't think I oiled that chain but it will need a good cleaning and rewaxing to install it on the Trek.
> > >>>> Reread, Tom. I said it was the cassette mileage that amazed me. 17,000
> > >>>> miles is a lot.
> > >>> Is this somewhat different? If I'm getting 10,000 miles on a chain, why would it be any surprise that I was getting 17 or even 20,000 miles on a cassette. I'm riding mostly in the 23 and 25 tooth cogs which means that they aren't getting much pressure from the cranks. On the climbs I am in the 28 to 32 tooth cogs I'm never in the 11 tooth cog except when riding downhill and that is hardly a way to wear out cogs.
> > >> I should also note that my normal mileage for a year is about 6,000 miles and a Shimano warranty is 2 years on their cassettes. Shimano is hardly likely to warranty their cassettes if they think that they're going to give up the ghost in 2 years.
> > >
> > > That is new to me. You get a new cassette when it is worn within 2 years?
> > >
> > > Lou
> > >
> > Urban myth.
> > It's guaranteed against defect not wear.
> Direct from the warranty: "Warrants that the PRO products are free from defects in materials and workmanship under normal conditions and reasonable use for two years from the date of original retail purchase."
>
> Now I imagine that they could call 20,000 miles on a cassette "unreasonable use" but that would not be good advertising.
Cassettes are wear items and whatever you get you get. The problem with it today is they cost a lot more to replace. Not long ago I could get a cassette for under $50 new but know they are at times running over $100. I want a Shimano 11-30 Ultegra but not many in stock and $135 a pop. granted when you get mileage like I do on them you cannot complain. Now I am looking for a 10 speed cassette 11-28 or 12-30. I wish they made an 11-30 but not made. I wonder if you could piece one together as an 11-30?
Deacon mark