On 5/1/2024, Newyana2 wrote:

> Assuming you mean an Android cellphone, and assuming that you want
> to transfer files, such as images, it should work if you have a compatible
> cable. Another option is bluetooth. Enable BT on both and then on Windows
> (assuming Windows) use the GUI to connect. I did this a few days ago
> on Win10 but don't exactly remember the process. I think I found the
> bluetooth options in PC Settings, but it's not very obvious. There should
> be a dedicated program on the Start Menu.

You're right that Bluetooth alone works as an ad hoc network if both the
phone and the computer have it but the OP's computer is XP so maybe not.

A wi-fi solutions though could be Nitro Share, Kies and KDE Connect.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.nitroshare.android
https://www.samsung.com/au/support/kies/
https://kdeconnect.kde.org/download.html

Using <news:unctgn$qapf$1@dont-email.me>, sms wrote:

>> There's also a default usb configuration setting in Developer options.
>> Settings -> Developer options -> Default USB configuration
>> which for my device is set to "Transfer files/Android Auto."
>
> Yes, that's what I did.
>
> But the original poster is using a very old phone running a very old
> version of Android, and may not have that option.

If the original poster's phone is old, then "Microsoft Phone Link" should
work on Android OS 7.0 or later (formerly named "Microsoft Your Phone").

The "Your Phone" app was written by Samsung but they gave it to Microsoft
at the time of the rebranding (as far as I know) so it works on everything.

It's preinstalled on Windows PCs nowadays but maybe not on the older XP.
https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9NMPJ99VJBWV

It's preinstalled on Samsung phones but you need this for all the rest.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft.appmanager

In looking that up for you and for the original poster, I noticed it has
been downloaded over a billion times so it must be working for people.

It's pretty simple to use once you install the app on each device.
With both devices on your LAN, you run the Phone Link app on Windows and
connect (pair) to your Android phone by the QR code that pops up.

After pairing you transfer files by dragging and dropping either direction.

Like KDE Connect, the MS Phone link does more than just transfer files.
For example, you can make calls from your PC using the phone link.

Much more here if the original poster is interested in wi-fi transfer.
https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/06/27/the-ultimate-guide-to-using-windows-your-phone-with-android/

On Fri, 5 Jan 2024 15:53:18 +0100, Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote

>> Most of the time it's the cable but you can also connect by wifi.
>
> But not to transfer data between the phone and the computer without
> additional software.

Not if you use WebRTC.

On 2024-01-06 15:38, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Steve Hayes, 2024-01-05 16:49:
>
>> On Fri, 5 Jan 2024 07:15:39 -0700, Oliver <ollie@invalid.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 5 Jan 2024 10:33:03 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote
>>>
>>>>> Sometimes I plug my phone into the computer and a little boc pops up
>>>>> asking it I want to treat the phone like a USB drive, and all is well.
>>>>>
>>>>> But if the box doesn't pop up, how do I find it?
>>>>
>>>> perhaps the times it doesn't pop up are when you're using a
>>>> charging-only cable with no data pins?
>>>
>>> Most of the time it's the cable but you can also connect by wifi.
>>
>>
>> My phone sometimes shows up on my computer when connected by cable,
>> but it *never* shows up on the the home network (wifi for the phone,
>> but the computer is connected by ethernet cable).
>
> Define "shows up". If you expect the phone to be visible as a device on
> your computer, where you can copy files from or to it, this will *never*
> happen when using WiFi.
>
> When using USB with a data connection (and not only power), the computer
> will see the device as storage device depending on what protocols are
> supported by the computer and by the smartphone (usually PTP or MTP).
> However this has to be enabled in the smartphone *and* the cable has to
> work properly.
>
>> What I want to know is why it only shows up sometimes and not every
>> time I want to connect.
>
> Most likely because the cable is defect or low quality or the connectors
> are dirty or otherwise damaged in some way, so the connection is not
> reliable.

It does, it you are running something that presents some type of server.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Steve Hayes wrote:

>Is there any sure way of getting a phone and computer to connect?

Since noone has mentioned the solution that I use, here it is:
I ftp into my phone. I use the free version "Wifi FTP Server", which I
only start on demand, set username/pw and then you can use an ftp
programme of your choice on your computer (here it is Total
Commander/Double Commander for Linux), but you also could use Filezilla
or whatever ftp programme you would like to use. No cable required, your
phone just has to be in the same home network as your computer. Always
works.

-jw-

--

And now for something completely different...

On Sun, 07 Jan 2024 11:35:45 +0100, Joerg Walther wrote:

>>Is there any sure way of getting a phone and computer to connect?
>
> Since noone has mentioned the solution that I use, here it is:
> I ftp into my phone. I use the free version "Wifi FTP Server", which I
> only start on demand, set username/pw and then you can use an ftp
> programme of your choice on your computer (here it is Total
> Commander/Double Commander for Linux), but you also could use Filezilla
> or whatever ftp programme you would like to use. No cable required, your
> phone just has to be in the same home network as your computer. Always
> works.

FTP has issues due to the fact it uses ports 21/22 but if you want to use
FTP to mount Android as a Windows drive letter over Wi-Fi, you can do that.

There are many ways, most of which will even work on the OP's old WinXP PC.
https://serverfault.com/questions/6079/how-can-i-mount-an-ftp-to-a-drive-letter-in-windows

Oscar Mayer wrote:

>FTP has issues due to the fact it uses ports 21/22

Which "issues" are you talking about? It is not encrypted, of course,
but this is done on the user's home network, not on the internet. BTW, I
am not suggesting to keep the ftp server on the phone running all the
time.

>but if you want to use
>FTP to mount Android as a Windows drive letter over Wi-Fi, you can do that.

The OP did not specifically ask for a drive letter, he just wanted to
"connect" his phone to his PC.

-jw-

--

And now for something completely different...

"Larry Wolff" <larrywolff@larrywolff.net> wrote

| You're right that Bluetooth alone works as an ad hoc network if both the
| phone and the computer have it but the OP's computer is XP so maybe not.
|

Yes. I think I've used a bluetooth antenna on XP, but
a cable is easier than anything else. I had used the bluetooth
with Win10 only because I didn't have a USB-to-USB-C cable.

On 2024-01-07 14:05, Joerg Walther wrote:
> Oscar Mayer wrote:
>
>> FTP has issues due to the fact it uses ports 21/22
>
> Which "issues" are you talking about? It is not encrypted, of course,
> but this is done on the user's home network, not on the internet. BTW, I
> am not suggesting to keep the ftp server on the phone running all the
> time.

It has issues when there are firewalls involved in either server or client.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Transfer_Protocol#NAT_and_firewall_traversal

It also has many issues regarding security, but we are talking of a LAN,
so it depends on what users are on that LAN.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Transfer_Protocol#Security

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> "Larry Wolff" <larrywolff@larrywolff.net> wrote
>
> | You're right that Bluetooth alone works as an ad hoc network if both the
> | phone and the computer have it but the OP's computer is XP so maybe not.
> |
>
> Yes. I think I've used a bluetooth antenna on XP, but
> a cable is easier than anything else. I had used the bluetooth
> with Win10 only because I didn't have a USB-to-USB-C cable.

Yes, XP could use Bluetooth (with driver/software provided with the
Bluetooth USB-dongle).

It's actually the way I 'tethered' to my first Internet-capable mobile
phone, a Nokia 6310i GSM/GPRS phone.

That phone could also use an infrared connection (IrDA [1]) and my XP
laptop had a built-in infrared transceiver.

Those were the days! :-)

[1] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_Data_Association>

Oliver, 2024-01-07 02:51:

> On Fri, 5 Jan 2024 15:53:18 +0100, Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote
>
>>> Most of the time it's the cable but you can also connect by wifi.
>>
>> But not to transfer data between the phone and the computer without
>> additional software.
>
> Not if you use WebRTC.

What does WebRTC have to do with that? Please explain.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Andrew, 2024-01-06 22:01:

> Arno Welzel wrote on Sat, 6 Jan 2024 15:40:07 +0100 :
>
>>> It will if you set it up to show up on the home network over wifi.
>>
>> How? I mean how will a smartphone show up on a *computer* in the same
>> network when connected to WiFi?
>
> Lots of ways. With this your phone will show up as a Windows drive letter.
> https://play.google.com/store/search?q=webdav%20server&c=apps

Yes, I know tools like Cx File Explorer or servers for FTP and WebDAV
etc.. - but this is additional software which needs additional
configuration.

I talk about using the phone *without* additional software.

When using a USB cable you just connect the phone and you can just
access it with the file manager of your computer, since Windows, Linux
and macOS support the protocols for that out of the box.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Bradley, 2024-01-07 01:44:

> On 1/6/2024 9:45 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
>> I'm wary of using metal needles inside USB connectors, wooden cocktail
>> sticks are better if you can find ones thin enough. Also use a bright
>> torch to shine into the socket, it only takes a bit of fluff to block
>> the connection ...
>
> Metal is a really bad idea.
> Sharp is also a really bad idea.
> Take a guess as to how bad using sharp metal will be?

Well - the *side* of a small metal needle is not sharp at all. It only
has a pointy tip. And for me that it always worked without any issues at
all. Of course you need to be *gentle* and not poke around with a lot of
force.

> Most people use those little cans of compressed air to blow it out.

Yes, if you if have that. Finding a needle is often easier.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On Tue, 9 Jan 2024 01:41:52 +0100, Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote

>>>> Most of the time it's the cable but you can also connect by wifi.
>>>
>>> But not to transfer data between the phone and the computer without
>>> additional software.
>>
>> Not if you use WebRTC.
>
> What does WebRTC have to do with that? Please explain.

Anyone can easily copy any file over Wi-Fi from any device on any platform
to any other device on any platform using nothing but the native tools.

That other device is typically on your own LAN but it could cross networks.
You do need momentary Internet access to establish the ad hoc connections.

That's where the WebRTC comes in.
https://webrtc.org/

Arno Welzel wrote on Tue, 9 Jan 2024 01:44:37 +0100 :

> I talk about using the phone *without* additional software.

While it's nice to have the Android phone showing up as a drive,
you do have to install a server (like webdav) & configure it right.

I saw someone already gave you the answer if you insist on installing
nothing and configuring nothing and just copying over the wifi lan.

Sharedrop needs no software and no configuration as it uses webrtc.
https://github.com/szimek/sharedrop

It has been discussed on this newsgroup many times but you missed it.

"ShareDrop is a web application inspired by Apple AirDrop service. It
allows you to transfer files directly between devices, without having to
upload them to any server first. It uses WebRTC for secure peer-to-peer
file transfer and Firebase for presence management and WebRTC signaling.

ShareDrop allows you to send files to other devices in the same local
network (i.e. devices with the same public IP address) without any
configuration - simply open https://www.sharedrop.io on all devices and
they will see each other. It also allows you to send files between networks
- just click the + button in the top right corner of the page to create a
room with a unique URL and share this URL with other people you want to
send a file to. Once they open this page in a browser on their devices,
you'll see each other's avatars.

The main difference between ShareDrop and AirDrop is that ShareDrop
requires Internet connection to discover other devices, while AirDrop
doesn't need one, as it creates ad-hoc wireless network between them. On
the other hand, ShareDrop allows you to share files between mobiles
(Android and iOS) and desktop devices and even between networks."

Oliver, 2024-01-09 01:55:

> On Tue, 9 Jan 2024 01:41:52 +0100, Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote
>
>>>>> Most of the time it's the cable but you can also connect by wifi.
>>>>
>>>> But not to transfer data between the phone and the computer without
>>>> additional software.
>>>
>>> Not if you use WebRTC.
>>
>> What does WebRTC have to do with that? Please explain.
>
> Anyone can easily copy any file over Wi-Fi from any device on any platform
> to any other device on any platform using nothing but the native tools.

How exactly does WebRTC help with that?

> That other device is typically on your own LAN but it could cross networks.
> You do need momentary Internet access to establish the ad hoc connections.
> That's where the WebRTC comes in.
> https://webrtc.org/

I know what WebRTC is. But how does this help to transfer files between
an Android smartphone and a computer in the same network via WiFi
*without* any additional software?

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Andrew, 2024-01-09 02:58:

> Arno Welzel wrote on Tue, 9 Jan 2024 01:44:37 +0100 :
>
>> I talk about using the phone *without* additional software.
>
> While it's nice to have the Android phone showing up as a drive,
> you do have to install a server (like webdav) & configure it right.

No, you do not have to do this via USB.

> I saw someone already gave you the answer if you insist on installing
> nothing and configuring nothing and just copying over the wifi lan.

No, he didn't. Just the protocol "WebRTC" was mentioned.

> Sharedrop needs no software and no configuration as it uses webrtc.
> https://github.com/szimek/sharedrop

Oh my... Sharedrop *is* software.

> "ShareDrop is a web application inspired by Apple AirDrop service. It

Also "web application" is *software* and is has to run somewhere. You
need to connect to a website where Sharedrop is running, as for example
<https://www.sharedrop.io/>.

Maybe it is still not clear enough:

When using USB you need *NOTHING* extra! No internet connection, no
extra software. Just connect via USB, enable data connection in the
Android phone and you can access the phone on your computer - no extra
software in most cases.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Arno Welzel wrote:

> I know what WebRTC is. But how does this help to transfer files between
> an Android smartphone and a computer in the same network via WiFi
> *without* any additional software?

Seems you know *part* of what webRTC is, I suppose the important feature
here is peer discovery ...

<https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Glossary/WebRTC>

"WebRTC (Web Real-Time Communication)
is an API that can be used by video-chat,
voice-calling, and P2P-file-sharing Web apps."

Andy Burns, 2024-01-09 16:41:

> Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>> I know what WebRTC is. But how does this help to transfer files between
>> an Android smartphone and a computer in the same network via WiFi
>> *without* any additional software?
>
> Seems you know *part* of what webRTC is, I suppose the important feature
> here is peer discovery ...

No, I know that.

> <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Glossary/WebRTC>

This does not help without any software running one some machine
providing this, like <https://www.sharedrop.io/> as mentioned in anothe
post. But without access to such a server, WebRTC is *not* a substitute
to using a USB cable and file transfer using PTP/MTP - which is
supported in Windows, macOS or Linux out of the box.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Arno Welzel wrote on Tue, 9 Jan 2024 15:01:02 +0100 :

>> Sharedrop needs no software and no configuration as it uses webrtc.
>> https://github.com/szimek/sharedrop
>
> Oh my... Sharedrop *is* software.

Oh my... A USB driver *is* software too.

ShareDrop is just a server. It's not "software". That you think it's
software means you are objecting to something you don't even understand.

>> "ShareDrop is a web application inspired by Apple AirDrop service. It
>
> Also "web application" is *software* and is has to run somewhere.

Also the "usb application" is *software* and it has to run somewhere.
Again, you're objecting to something that you can't seem to understand.

> You need to connect to a website where Sharedrop is running, as for example
> <https://www.sharedrop.io/>.

With USB you need to connect to another USB device where a USB driver is
running, as for example a Windows computer with USB.

You object to what you haven't understood when what you're objecting to
applies more to USB than it does to ad hoc wi-fi file transfers.

> Maybe it is still not clear enough:

What's clear is USB uses more software than what you're objecting to.
And what's clear is USB uses more hardware than what you object to.

How many people have had USB driver problems on their PC for example.
Plus, what you're objecting to uses a cord that ad hoc wi-fi doesn't.

> When using USB you need *NOTHING* extra! No internet connection, no
> extra software. Just connect via USB, enable data connection in the
> Android phone and you can access the phone on your computer - no extra
> software in most cases.

Ad hoc wi-fi uses less hardware than USB.
In fact it needs no added hardware (as you need a cable for USB).

Ad hoc wi-fi uses less software than USB (as USB requires drivers).
In fact it needs no software (since every platform has a browser).

In addition, ad hoc wi-fi connects to any device in the network.
Or on any other network. Even devices that don't have USB ports.

That's because USB requires more software and more hardware than it.

Your objections are ridiculous.
Who in his right mind objects to a universal solution that requires less
hardware and less software and less configuration than even USB does?

This is the end of the conversation with you.
You aren't capable of understanding even USB, let along ad hoc wi-fi.

On Tue, 9 Jan 2024 18:14:13 +0100, Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote

>> Seems you know *part* of what webRTC is, I suppose the important feature
>> here is peer discovery ...
>
> No, I know that.
>
>> <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Glossary/WebRTC>
>
> This does not help without any software running one some machine
> providing this, like <https://www.sharedrop.io/> as mentioned in anothe
> post. But without access to such a server, WebRTC is *not* a substitute
> to using a USB cable and file transfer using PTP/MTP - which is
> supported in Windows, macOS or Linux out of the box.

You complain about Mom & Apple Pie because you like Dad's Pumpkin Pie.

USB requires short distances to transfer between devices.
Ad hoc wi-fi via WebRTC peer-discovery does not.

USB requires a compatible cable to transfer between devices.
Ad hoc wi-fi via WebRTC peer-discovery does not.

USB requires a compatible driver to transfer between devices.
Ad hoc wi-fi via WebRTC peer-discovery does not.

Ad hoc wi-fi requires peer discovery (which is where WebRTC comes in).
USB does not.

Having made that distinction, I'm not going to continue a discussion that
is fraught with impossibly insane argument such as those you are making.

Neither method uses more software (nor less).
Neither method requires more setup (nor less).

Each method solves the hurdles (such as distances) the other can't solve.
If the distance is extremely short & cables & drivers compatible, use USB.

The fundamental difference is USB requires compatible hardware & distances
while WebRTC peer-to-peer discovery requires a few seconds of Internet.

Neither method precludes the other.
Both methods are practically perfect.

No sense continuing this farcical charade to the point of absurdity.

On 2024-01-09 22:24, Andrew wrote:
> Arno Welzel wrote on Tue, 9 Jan 2024 15:01:02 +0100 :
>
>>> Sharedrop needs no software and no configuration as it uses webrtc.
>>> https://github.com/szimek/sharedrop
>>
>> Oh my... Sharedrop *is* software.
>
> Oh my... A USB driver *is* software too.

Huh, no. Comes by default, nothing has to be installed.

> ShareDrop is just a server. It's not "software". That you think it's
> software means you are objecting to something you don't even understand.

Well, is is some extra service, maybe external, that is needed so that
phone and computer find one another and can exchange files.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. wrote on Tue, 9 Jan 2024 23:00:12 +0100 :

>> Oh my... A USB driver *is* software too.
>
> Huh, no. Comes by default, nothing has to be installed.

It's not really important because the objections that Arno Welzel were
ridiculous in that both solutions work quite well without configuration.

If I use the same fault-finding level, I point out the correct USB driver
has to be INSTALLED as an additional driver on Windows when you plug it in.

Sure, that's automatic. Most of the time. If you're lucky. But it's added.

Keeping to this ridiculous picky level, USB not only uses more software,
but USB requires more hardware (as you have to have a compatible cable).

>> ShareDrop is just a server. It's not "software". That you think it's
>> software means you are objecting to something you don't even understand.
>
> Well, is is some extra service, maybe external, that is needed so that
> phone and computer find one another and can exchange files.

Keeping to your acrimoniously fussy level, the USB method also requires
what you call an "extra service" in the form of a PC hardware driver.

But let's stop your persnickety attitude to accept if you have a compatible
cable and if the device is close to the PC, then USB is a simple method.

If the devices are farther away than your cable allows, or if the second
device doesn't use the same cable, or if the second device is on another
network, then using ad hoc wi-fi file sharing is as simple as it gets.

Once you stop being picky, neither needs extra software or configuration.

Oliver, 2024-01-09 22:46:

> On Tue, 9 Jan 2024 18:14:13 +0100, Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote
>
>>> Seems you know *part* of what webRTC is, I suppose the important feature
>>> here is peer discovery ...
>>
>> No, I know that.
>>
>>> <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Glossary/WebRTC>
>>
>> This does not help without any software running one some machine
>> providing this, like <https://www.sharedrop.io/> as mentioned in anothe
>> post. But without access to such a server, WebRTC is *not* a substitute
>> to using a USB cable and file transfer using PTP/MTP - which is
>> supported in Windows, macOS or Linux out of the box.
>
> You complain about Mom & Apple Pie because you like Dad's Pumpkin Pie.

No, you just did not get at all, what I was talking about.

> USB requires short distances to transfer between devices.
> Ad hoc wi-fi via WebRTC peer-discovery does not.

This was not the topic!

> USB requires a compatible cable to transfer between devices.

This was not the topic!

> Ad hoc wi-fi via WebRTC peer-discovery does not.
>
> USB requires a compatible driver to transfer between devices.

No.

> Ad hoc wi-fi via WebRTC peer-discovery does not.

But it requires a working internet connection and access to a website
which offers the file transfer services using WebRTC.

> Ad hoc wi-fi requires peer discovery (which is where WebRTC comes in).
> USB does not.

And "peer discovery" does NOT work without a website which offers that!
By default neither Windows nor macOS or Linux have any software built in
which privides this.

> Having made that distinction, I'm not going to continue a discussion that
> is fraught with impossibly insane argument such as those you are making.
>
> Neither method uses more software (nor less).

Wrong.

> Neither method requires more setup (nor less).

Wrong.

> Each method solves the hurdles (such as distances) the other can't solve.

This was not the topic!

> If the distance is extremely short & cables & drivers compatible, use USB.
>
> The fundamental difference is USB requires compatible hardware & distances
> while WebRTC peer-to-peer discovery requires a few seconds of Internet.

Windows and macOS *are* compatible to Android USB data connections by
default.

> Neither method precludes the other.
> Both methods are practically perfect.

No, since for WebRTC you *must* have internet access to be able to use
<https://www.sharedrop.io/> or similar websites.

> No sense continuing this farcical charade to the point of absurdity.

You did not get it.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Andrew, 2024-01-09 22:24:

> Arno Welzel wrote on Tue, 9 Jan 2024 15:01:02 +0100 :
>
>>> Sharedrop needs no software and no configuration as it uses webrtc.
>>> https://github.com/szimek/sharedrop
>>
>> Oh my... Sharedrop *is* software.
>
> Oh my... A USB driver *is* software too.

There is *no* extra USB driver needed! This is already built in!

> ShareDrop is just a server. It's not "software". That you think it's
> software means you are objecting to something you don't even understand.

ShareDrop is *software* running on *another* machine and not on your own
computer.

>>> "ShareDrop is a web application inspired by Apple AirDrop service. It
>>
>> Also "web application" is *software* and is has to run somewhere.
>
> Also the "usb application" is *software* and it has to run somewhere.

Which you do *not* have to install. It is already built in your
operating system.

>> You need to connect to a website where Sharedrop is running, as for example
>> <https://www.sharedrop.io/>.
>
> With USB you need to connect to another USB device where a USB driver is
> running, as for example a Windows computer with USB.

But the driver is already built in!

You don't get it.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de