On 1/15/24 6:45 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>> On 1/14/24 4:21 PM, Oscar Mayer wrote:
>> >On 14 Jan 2024 19:44:58 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> >
>> >> When we're in the boonies, without any Internet - mobile or otherwise -
>> >> I often need to copy stuff from my phone to my laptop or vice versa, so
>> >> then USB is the simplest solution. There are other solutions, like
>> >> Bluetooth, Wi-Fi Direct, etc., but IME they're not that easy to setup
>> >> or/and do require extra software.
>> >
>> >These solutions are like different shaped screwdrivers.
>> >You likely want one of each shape in your toolbox.
>> >
>> > [1] USB
>> > [2] Wi-Fi peer-to-peer
>> > [3] Bluetooth peer-to-peer
>> >
>> >Any others?
>>
>> I often use an SD card...
>
> And while doing so, you of course plug the 3.5mm TRRS/TRS plug of
>your wired earphones into your smartphone to listen to its FM radio.

Though my Galaxy S10+ has an FM radio Samsung broke it so no I don't...

Oscar Mayer, 2024-01-15 00:21:

> On 14 Jan 2024 19:44:58 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
>> When we're in the boonies, without any Internet - mobile or otherwise -
>> I often need to copy stuff from my phone to my laptop or vice versa, so
>> then USB is the simplest solution. There are other solutions, like
>> Bluetooth, Wi-Fi Direct, etc., but IME they're not that easy to setup
>> or/and do require extra software.
>
> Arno Welzel's whole argument is that there is only one screwdriver.

No. There isn't. It was about what is the *same* like USB: without any
additional software needed, without internet access, without any special
knowledge like which website to open to be able to use WebRTC etc..

> Only flathead.
> No Phillips.

Wrong.

> But most people aren't as rigid as he is in the way they think.

I don't think so.

> Most people prefer simple solutions that fit their needs.

And using an external website which you have to know first is *not* simple.

[...]
> These solutions are like different shaped screwdrivers.
> You likely want one of each shape in your toolbox.
>
> [1] USB

Works out of the box.

> [2] Wi-Fi peer-to-peer

Needs a working internet connection on both devices *and* a website.
What if you don't remember which website it was in the first place?

> [3] Bluetooth peer-to-peer

Needs bluetooth on both devices which is not always the case. Also
bluetooth is quite slow - even Bluetooth 5.0 provides only 3 MBit/s when
EDR is available. So transferring 500 MB of data can take more than 30
minutes.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On 1/15/2024 1:13 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Oscar Mayer, 2024-01-15 00:21:
>
>> On 14 Jan 2024 19:44:58 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>
>>> When we're in the boonies, without any Internet - mobile or otherwise -
>>> I often need to copy stuff from my phone to my laptop or vice versa, so
>>> then USB is the simplest solution. There are other solutions, like
>>> Bluetooth, Wi-Fi Direct, etc., but IME they're not that easy to setup
>>> or/and do require extra software.

TBF, USB will need a specific type of cable. Odd that you think a USB
cable would be more available in the boonies than Bluetooth connectivity
between two computer devices.

>> [1] USB
>
> Works out of the box.

Needs a DATA cable.

>> [2] Wi-Fi peer-to-peer
>
> Needs a working internet connection on both devices *and* a website.
> What if you don't remember which website it was in the first place?
>
>> [3] Bluetooth peer-to-peer
>
> Needs bluetooth on both devices which is not always the case.

It's more likely the case than the availability of a USB "data" cable.

> Also
> bluetooth is quite slow - even Bluetooth 5.0 provides only 3 MBit/s when
> EDR is available. So transferring 500 MB of data can take more than 30
> minutes.

500 MB is likely an outlier usage case when in the boonies. Bluetooth
comes in handy for file transfer precisely because of its ubiquity and
lack of extra hardware or software.

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>> [1] USB
>
> Works out of the box.

Wrong. Usb does not work "out of the box."
Usb requires additional hardware and device-specific software drivers.

kelown <kelown@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> TBF, USB will need a specific type of cable. Odd that you think a USB
> cable would be more available in the boonies than Bluetooth connectivity
> between two computer devices.

Correct. Often are cases of incompatible ports or longer distances?
Then usb no longer works at all.
>>> [1] USB
>>
>> Works out of the box.
>
> Needs a DATA cable.

Correct. Usb only works after you add additional specific hardware.
And usb requires software drivers specific to your hardware.

Although if you're not on the internet when you first connect usb, I would
hope that Windows will automatically install at least a generic usb driver.
>>> [2] Wi-Fi peer-to-peer
>>
>> Needs a working internet connection on both devices *and* a website.
>> What if you don't remember which website it was in the first place?
>>
>>> [3] Bluetooth peer-to-peer
>>
>> Needs bluetooth on both devices which is not always the case.
>
> It's more likely the case than the availability of a USB "data" cable.

There's a reason someone gave the example of different shaped screwdrivers.
We need to use the tool that fits the situation that we happen to be in.

>> Also
>> bluetooth is quite slow - even Bluetooth 5.0 provides only 3 MBit/s when
>> EDR is available. So transferring 500 MB of data can take more than 30
>> minutes.
>
> 500 MB is likely an outlier usage case when in the boonies. Bluetooth
> comes in handy for file transfer precisely because of its ubiquity and
> lack of extra hardware or software.

Each method is better/worse than the others depending on the situation.

kelown <kelown@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> On 1/15/2024 1:13 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:
> > Oscar Mayer, 2024-01-15 00:21:
> >
> >> On 14 Jan 2024 19:44:58 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >>
> >>> When we're in the boonies, without any Internet - mobile or otherwise -
> >>> I often need to copy stuff from my phone to my laptop or vice versa, so
> >>> then USB is the simplest solution. There are other solutions, like
> >>> Bluetooth, Wi-Fi Direct, etc., but IME they're not that easy to setup
> >>> or/and do require extra software.
>
> TBF, USB will need a specific type of cable. Odd that you think a USB
> cable would be more available in the boonies than Bluetooth connectivity
> between two computer devices.

Nope, a USB (smart)phone to/from laptop transfer does *not* need "a
specific type of cable". It uses the *same* cable as is used to charge
the phone, so no special cable or any other hardware (or software) is
needed for this type of connection. That's the main advantage: Needs
nothing extra and is reasonably fast.

[More of the same deleted.]

On 1/16/24 9:01 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

>a USB (smart)phone to/from laptop transfer does *not* need "a
>specific type of cable". It uses the *same* cable as is used to charge
>the phone, so no special cable or any other hardware (or software) is
>needed for this type of connection. That's the main advantage: Needs
>nothing extra and is reasonably fast.

There are charge only (no data line) USB cables in my collection. Not yours?

AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
> On 1/16/24 9:01 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
> >a USB (smart)phone to/from laptop transfer does *not* need "a
> >specific type of cable". It uses the *same* cable as is used to charge
> >the phone, so no special cable or any other hardware (or software) is
> >needed for this type of connection. That's the main advantage: Needs
> >nothing extra and is reasonably fast.
>
> There are charge only (no data line) USB cables in my collection. Not yours?

Nope, I don't [1] have any such cables.

But the point of charge-only cables is irrelevant, because the
(snipped) context is obviously about a cable which came with the phone,
otherwise it *would* be an extra item in this "no-extra's"
(non-)discussion.

[1] I do have some special-case charge-only cables which have a USB
connector on one end, but a non-USB connector on the other end. For
example for a Fitbit 'watch' and a AA/AAA charger.

On 1/16/24 11:15 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:

>> There are charge only (no data line) USB cables in my collection. Not yours?

> Nope, I don't [1] have any such cables.

> But the point of charge-only cables is irrelevant, because the
>(snipped) context is obviously about a cable which came with the phone,

Ah. I think my original phone cable got lost around 4 years ago. But no
worries. I think I have 20 or more in my box.

>otherwise it *would* be an extra item in this "no-extra's"
>(non-)discussion.

Yup. But better IMO than a dead group...

>[1] I do have some special-case charge-only cables which have a USB
>connector on one end, but a non-USB connector on the other end. For
>example for a Fitbit 'watch' and a AA/AAA charger.

Yup2. Same here but I also have some with USB on the other end. The most
recent came with a rechargable mouse.

Am posting with my recently acquired $39US 7" Android tablet (you are the
victim of a test)...

AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
> On 1/16/24 11:15 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>
> >> There are charge only (no data line) USB cables in my collection.
> >> Not yours?
>
> > Nope, I don't [1] have any such cables.
>
> > But the point of charge-only cables is irrelevant, because the
> >(snipped) context is obviously about a cable which came with the phone,
>
> Ah. I think my original phone cable got lost around 4 years ago. But no
> worries. I think I have 20 or more in my box.

Well, when we're going into the boonies, I make very, very sure that I
have the right cable(s) and at least one spare for each unique cable. A
bit of a bother when the next shop might be some 800-1000km away! :-)

> >otherwise it *would* be an extra item in this "no-extra's"
> >(non-)discussion.
>
> Yup. But better IMO than a dead group...

Yes, it's getting a bit quiet, but then I'm filtering quite a lot of
trolls/loons and (crossposted to) troll groups.

> >[1] I do have some special-case charge-only cables which have a USB
> >connector on one end, but a non-USB connector on the other end. For
> >example for a Fitbit 'watch' and a AA/AAA charger.
>
> Yup2. Same here but I also have some with USB on the other end. The most
> recent came with a rechargable mouse.

As 'nospam' used to say, if it doesn't confirm to the USB spec - and
hence the connectors will/should not have USB markings -, it's not a
USB cable, it's just a cable which has connectors which *look like* USB
connectors.

Having said that, I see that our (Samsung) USB-A to USB-C cables have
no marking on the USB-C side. Do USB-C to USB-C cables have no markings
on their connectors? If so, I understand why the Apple adepts objected
so much to USB-C charging ports for/on iPhones! :-)

Well, if that's wasn't some totally irrelevant rambling, I don't know
what *is*!

> Am posting with my recently acquired $39US 7" Android tablet (you are the
> victim of a test)...

In news.software.readers there's yet another thread in search of a
Android newsreader. Well, one can hope, can't one!?

On 1/16/24 1:16 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:.

>when we're going into the boonies, I make very, very sure that I
>have the right cable(s) and at least one spare for each unique cable. A
>bit of a bother when the next shop might be some 800-1000km away! :-)

Impressive. My boonies are only 100 miles away (in the mountains out of the
desert heat)...

>>[Endless arguing is] better IMO than a dead group...

>Yes, it's getting a bit quiet, but then I'm filtering quite a lot of
>trolls/loons and (crossposted to) troll groups.

No filtering here. I have always enjoyed the slanderous chatter.

> As 'nospam' used to say...

Where did nospam go? Haven't seen him in a long time. As most of us are old
farts here I hope it's not the worst...

>I see that our (Samsung) USB-A to USB-C cables have
>no marking on the USB-C side. Do USB-C to USB-C cables have no markings
>on their connectors.

None of my cables have any markings on them. I did try to send data through
a charge only cable one time. I got a verrrry slow transfer speed...

>If so, I understand why the Apple adepts objected
>so much to USB-C charging ports for/on iPhones! :-)

Not a problem for the iPhone that lives and wirelessly charges in my
house...

>In news.software.readers there's yet another thread in search of a
>Android newsreader. Well, one can hope, can't one!?

Yep. This PhoNews is definitely a PITA to use compared to my earlier
Groundhog and NewsGroup Android readers. But it does work on all my modern
Android stuff including this Chromebook tablet whereas the old ones don't.
Now if it only had a spell check so I wouldn't em bare ass myself so
much...

On 2024-01-15 21:34, kelown wrote:
> On 1/15/2024 1:13 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Oscar Mayer, 2024-01-15 00:21:
>>
>>> On 14 Jan 2024 19:44:58 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>>
>>>>    When we're in the boonies, without any Internet - mobile or
>>>> otherwise -
>>>> I often need to copy stuff from my phone to my laptop or vice versa, so
>>>> then USB is the simplest solution. There are other solutions, like
>>>> Bluetooth, Wi-Fi Direct, etc., but IME they're not that easy to setup
>>>> or/and do require extra software.
>
> TBF, USB will need a specific type of cable. Odd that you think a USB
> cable would be more available in the boonies than Bluetooth connectivity
> between two computer devices.

What, you do not travel with an USB cable in the backpack, for
emergencies? :-)

>
>>>   [1] USB
>>
>> Works out of the box.
>
> Needs a DATA cable.

If the USB cable doesn't have all the wires, it is not an USB cable.

....

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2024-01-15 22:40, Peter wrote:
> kelown <kelown@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>> TBF, USB will need a specific type of cable. Odd that you think a USB
>> cable would be more available in the boonies than Bluetooth connectivity
>> between two computer devices.
>
> Correct. Often are cases of incompatible ports or longer distances?
> Then usb no longer works at all.
>
>>>> [1] USB
>>>
>>> Works out of the box.
>>
>> Needs a DATA cable.
>
> Correct. Usb only works after you add additional specific hardware.
> And usb requires software drivers specific to your hardware.
>
> Although if you're not on the internet when you first connect usb, I would
> hope that Windows will automatically install at least a generic usb driver.

The driver, if needed, is currently installed by default in any recent
laptop or computer. Even the BIOS supports USB, because keyboards are
USB, and laptops include hardware connected internally via USB. The BT
subsystem may be connected itself via USB (it is in this laptop I'm
using to write this).

....

> Each method is better/worse than the others depending on the situation.

Yes!

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2024-01-16 18:16, AJL wrote:
> On 1/16/24 9:01 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
>> a USB (smart)phone to/from laptop transfer does *not* need "a
>> specific type of cable". It uses the *same* cable as is used to charge
>> the phone, so no special cable or any other hardware (or software) is
>> needed for this type of connection. That's the main advantage: Needs
>> nothing extra and is reasonably fast.
>
> There are charge only (no data line) USB cables in my collection. Not
> yours?

Provided in the box where the smart phone came? No way.

And they are not USB, actually.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 11
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-01-16 18:16, AJL wrote:

> > There are charge only (no data line) USB cables in my collection.

> Provided in the box where the smart phone came? No way.

Nope. They came with various other devices.

> And they are not USB, actually.

Common usage is a data-blocker or charge-only USB cables.
Google says so too. YMMV...

Just put this Groundhog newsreader on an old Amazon Fire tablet. It
has spell check and auto correction (which I hate). I had forgotten
that. On newer devices it had quote problems. Lets see how it works
on this old tablet (you are now another of my test victims)...

AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
> On 1/16/24 1:16 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:.
>
> >when we're going into the boonies, I make very, very sure that I
> >have the right cable(s) and at least one spare for each unique cable. A
> >bit of a bother when the next shop might be some 800-1000km away! :-)
>
> Impressive. My boonies are only 100 miles away (in the mountains out of the
> desert heat)...

Well, it - sadly - was more reminiscing than current practice. I was
referring to the 4WD dirt tracks we did in Australia. Some of them were
some 1100km with nothing or hardly anything - for example only a bush
camp - in between. On a next trip we might still do some short(er) ones,
but not the big ones which took three to four days or more. "Hey!
There's a vehicle! The first one today and probably the last." Bliss!

[...]

> > As 'nospam' used to say...
>
> Where did nospam go? Haven't seen him in a long time. As most of us are old
> farts here I hope it's not the worst...

I don't know where he went/is and I indeed also hope it's not the
worst.

I seem to remember from my (now cleaned) filter logs that he was still
posting in June last year.

Perhaps someone else knows.

[...]

> >If so, I understand why the Apple adepts objected
> >so much to USB-C charging ports for/on iPhones! :-)
>
> Not a problem for the iPhone that lives and wirelessly charges in my
> house...

Sigh! Now you've given the troll(s) yet another (non-)argument! :-)

[...]

kelown, 2024-01-15 21:34:

> On 1/15/2024 1:13 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Oscar Mayer, 2024-01-15 00:21:
>>
>>> On 14 Jan 2024 19:44:58 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>>
>>>> When we're in the boonies, without any Internet - mobile or otherwise -
>>>> I often need to copy stuff from my phone to my laptop or vice versa, so
>>>> then USB is the simplest solution. There are other solutions, like
>>>> Bluetooth, Wi-Fi Direct, etc., but IME they're not that easy to setup
>>>> or/and do require extra software.
>
> TBF, USB will need a specific type of cable. Odd that you think a USB
> cable would be more available in the boonies than Bluetooth connectivity
> between two computer devices.

The USB cable does not have to be very "specific" - just one with data
connection and the matching connector type for your device. Usually that
comes with the device.

>>> [1] USB
>>
>> Works out of the box.
>
> Needs a DATA cable.

Which is provided with most devices. And to get one is also not very
hard. And to buy a USB data cable for your device you still don't have
to know what website to use to to data transfer ;-)

[...]
>>> [3] Bluetooth peer-to-peer
>>
>> Needs bluetooth on both devices which is not always the case.
>
> It's more likely the case than the availability of a USB "data" cable.

Not in my world. I have tons of USB data cables in the office and at
home and in the city where I live and can get cables very easy in one of
the local shops which sell smartphones.

>> Also
>> bluetooth is quite slow - even Bluetooth 5.0 provides only 3 MBit/s when
>> EDR is available. So transferring 500 MB of data can take more than 30
>> minutes.
>
> 500 MB is likely an outlier usage case when in the boonies. Bluetooth
> comes in handy for file transfer precisely because of its ubiquity and
> lack of extra hardware or software.

When it's just about to transfer a few files, you don't need file
transfer at all - just send it via drop box etc. and use the PC to
download the files.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Peter, 2024-01-15 22:40:

> kelown <kelown@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>> TBF, USB will need a specific type of cable. Odd that you think a USB
>> cable would be more available in the boonies than Bluetooth connectivity
>> between two computer devices.
>
> Correct. Often are cases of incompatible ports or longer distances?
> Then usb no longer works at all.

See the ORIGINAL POST!

[...]
> Each method is better/worse than the others depending on the situation.

See the ORIGINAL POST!

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

AJL, 2024-01-16 18:16:

> On 1/16/24 9:01 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
>> a USB (smart)phone to/from laptop transfer does *not* need "a
>> specific type of cable". It uses the *same* cable as is used to charge
>> the phone, so no special cable or any other hardware (or software) is
>> needed for this type of connection. That's the main advantage: Needs
>> nothing extra and is reasonably fast.
>
> There are charge only (no data line) USB cables in my collection. Not yours?

The cables provided with the phone is usally NOT(!) a "charge only" cable.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

AJL, 2024-01-17 16:35:

> On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 11
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2024-01-16 18:16, AJL wrote:
>
>>> There are charge only (no data line) USB cables in my collection.
>
>> Provided in the box where the smart phone came? No way.
>
> Nope. They came with various other devices.

The Pixel 6a I bought a while ago came with a data cable.

Also the Xiaomi Mi 9 Lite before and the Sony Xperia Z1 before and so on...

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Peter, 2024-01-15 22:34:

> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>>> [1] USB
>>
>> Works out of the box.
>
> Wrong. Usb does not work "out of the box."

It does.

> Usb requires additional hardware and device-specific software drivers.

No.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On 17.01.24 18:25, Arno Welzel wrote:
> AJL, 2024-01-17 16:35:
>
>> On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 11
>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2024-01-16 18:16, AJL wrote:
>>
>>>> There are charge only (no data line) USB cables in my collection.
>>
>>> Provided in the box where the smart phone came? No way.
>>
>> Nope. They came with various other devices.
>
> The Pixel 6a I bought a while ago came with a data cable.
>
> Also the Xiaomi Mi 9 Lite before and the Sony Xperia Z1 before and so on...

Same here with the Pixel 7, the Pixel 4 before and so on.
But not with a charger.

--
"Manus manum lavat."

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
> Arno Welzel wrote:
> > AJL wrote:
> >> "Carlos E. R." wrote:
> >>> AJL wrote:

> >>>> There are charge only (no data line) USB cables in my
collection.

> >>> Provided in the box where the smart phone came? No way.

> >> Nope. They came with various other devices.

> > The Pixel 6a I bought a while ago came with a data cable.

> > Also the Xiaomi Mi 9 Lite before and the Sony Xperia Z1 before
and so on...

> Same here with the Pixel 7, the Pixel 4 before and so on.

ALL my USB equipped phones over the years CAME WITH a data capable
cable. I repeat (from above) that my charge only USB cables in my
cable collection came from OTHER DEVICES...

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
> > 'Wireless sharing with your PC, made easy.'
> > 'Send and receive photos, documents and more between nearby Android
> > devices1 and Windows PCs.'
> > <https://www.android.com/better-together/nearby-share-app/>
>
> Nearby Share was already enabled on phone, but I was unaware of the
> Window app, installed it, tried to send a file from Win->Android, it
> just sits there "pulsing" various blue shapes while it tries to detect
> the phone ...

Just now, I installed the Windows program [1] and I can send from
Android to Windows and from Windows to Android.

The first time it took a little while - a few seconds - to find the
phone. The second time it was faster.

Can you transfer a file in the other direction, Android to Windows?

BTW, my laptop has Windows 11 (23H2).

I'm largely unimpressed by Nearby Share! It may be handy for an
incidental transfer of a file or a few files, but the user interface is
not very friendly, nor powerful.

I am still looking for a file manager type UI on both Android and
Windows, where you can copy-and-paste and cut-and-paste/drag
files/folders from one device to the other via a network (Wi-Fi/mobile)
connection. Nearby Share isn't that, not at all.

Nearby Share looked somewhat promising, because it's Google software
on both sides - Android and Windows -, instead of some third-party app
on Android and some other third-party stuff on Windows. But I'll keep
looking and in the meantime I'll keep Nearby Share, just in case.

[1] Lives in C:\Program Files\Google\NearbyShare, i.e. not in whatever
place Windows UWP/Metro/Modern/Fisher-Price 'apps' live.

On 2024-01-17 18:25, Arno Welzel wrote:
> AJL, 2024-01-17 16:35:
>
>> On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 11
>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2024-01-16 18:16, AJL wrote:
>>
>>>> There are charge only (no data line) USB cables in my collection.
>>
>>> Provided in the box where the smart phone came? No way.
>>
>> Nope. They came with various other devices.
>
> The Pixel 6a I bought a while ago came with a data cable.
>
> Also the Xiaomi Mi 9 Lite before and the Sony Xperia Z1 before and so on...

All phones come with a "real" USB cable, ie, all 4 wires.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.