Today is Saturday. On my Thursday ride I went up a narrow, barely two lane road. This is a difficult climb with areas flacking off over the side of a dropoff. The alternate route is over a minor climb and then it turns into a six lane road that is divided with a concrete island. The climb I was on is 1,000 feet high with many twists and turns and traffic sometimes going 45+ mph despite that this is a heavily used bicycle route that actually goes nowhere in particular. On the other side of the hill in another county there are a couple of housing areas but they rarely have people driving in or out. While I was on this road, traffic was coming by usually at 35+ mph despite the many blind turns. and they were coming by in groups of 10! Now exactly what was this about? They are paying $6/gallon for gasoline and then driving all they can possibly drive? Once in awhile a polite driver would come by at the safe speed of 25 and giving me room and passing ONLY when they could see ahead. But mostly they were in the largest groups I've ever seen on that road and driving like they should have their licenses suspended.

On the back half of that ride there is also a narrow 2 lane and it too was filled with streams of bumper to bumper traffic travelling altogether too fast. But at least that road has a bike lane and there is a large new housing area of the top of that hill. But WHY were they blowing through gasoline at the prices they are out in the Livermore Valley?

Coming back from today's ride we took a coffee break at a place in downtown San Leandro. I wasn't paying much attention to traffic since we were talking. But when we got up to leave you could not get out onto the roadway. And at the corner cars were driving directly through a stop sign to make certain that the three of us couldn't get out. We actually had to wait a minute or more for their to be an opening large enough that we could force our way in.

Is this the way people behave when gas is the most expensive it has been since Jimmy Carter was President?

On 3/12/2022 7:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> Today is Saturday. On my Thursday ride I went up a narrow, barely two lane road. This is a difficult climb with areas flacking off over the side of a dropoff. The alternate route is over a minor climb and then it turns into a six lane road that is divided with a concrete island. The climb I was on is 1,000 feet high with many twists and turns and traffic sometimes going 45+ mph despite that this is a heavily used bicycle route that actually goes nowhere in particular. On the other side of the hill in another county there are a couple of housing areas but they rarely have people driving in or out. While I was on this road, traffic was coming by usually at 35+ mph despite the many blind turns. and they were coming by in groups of 10! Now exactly what was this about? They are paying $6/gallon for gasoline and then driving all they can possibly drive? Once in awhile a polite driver would come by at the safe speed of 25 and giving me room and passing ONLY when they could see ahead. But mostly they were in the largest groups I've ever seen on that road and driving like they should have their licenses suspended.
>
> On the back half of that ride there is also a narrow 2 lane and it too was filled with streams of bumper to bumper traffic travelling altogether too fast. But at least that road has a bike lane and there is a large new housing area of the top of that hill. But WHY were they blowing through gasoline at the prices they are out in the Livermore Valley?
>
> Coming back from today's ride we took a coffee break at a place in downtown San Leandro. I wasn't paying much attention to traffic since we were talking. But when we got up to leave you could not get out onto the roadway. And at the corner cars were driving directly through a stop sign to make certain that the three of us couldn't get out. We actually had to wait a minute or more for their to be an opening large enough that we could force our way in.
>
> Is this the way people behave when gas is the most expensive it has been since Jimmy Carter was President?
Who was president?
https://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Inflation-Adjusted-Gasoline-Price-Feb-2020-768x523.png
Memory (or in Tom's case, "memory") can be a funny thing. The year I
retired, at a faculty social gathering, a couple of right wing faculty
members were mocking Jimmy Carter's imposition of the 55 MPH speed limit
as a gas saving measure, talking about what a stupid and unproductive
move that was.
I said "Carter didn't do that. That was before Carter was elected. It
was Nixon." But they were adamant, "Oh no, that was Carter's idea!" You
know, because he was a crazy liberal.
I told them to look it up when we got back to the office.
Later that day, one of the two was gracious enough to send me an email
apologizing. Unlike certain people here, he admitted he was wrong.
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 4:39:59 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/12/2022 7:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > Today is Saturday. On my Thursday ride I went up a narrow, barely two lane road. This is a difficult climb with areas flacking off over the side of a dropoff. The alternate route is over a minor climb and then it turns into a six lane road that is divided with a concrete island. The climb I was on is 1,000 feet high with many twists and turns and traffic sometimes going 45+ mph despite that this is a heavily used bicycle route that actually goes nowhere in particular. On the other side of the hill in another county there are a couple of housing areas but they rarely have people driving in or out. While I was on this road, traffic was coming by usually at 35+ mph despite the many blind turns. and they were coming by in groups of 10! Now exactly what was this about? They are paying $6/gallon for gasoline and then driving all they can possibly drive? Once in awhile a polite driver would come by at the safe speed of 25 and giving me room and passing ONLY when they could see ahead. But mostly they were in the largest groups I've ever seen on that road and driving like they should have their licenses suspended..
> >
> > On the back half of that ride there is also a narrow 2 lane and it too was filled with streams of bumper to bumper traffic travelling altogether too fast. But at least that road has a bike lane and there is a large new housing area of the top of that hill. But WHY were they blowing through gasoline at the prices they are out in the Livermore Valley?
> >
> > Coming back from today's ride we took a coffee break at a place in downtown San Leandro. I wasn't paying much attention to traffic since we were talking. But when we got up to leave you could not get out onto the roadway. And at the corner cars were driving directly through a stop sign to make certain that the three of us couldn't get out. We actually had to wait a minute or more for their to be an opening large enough that we could force our way in.
> >
> > Is this the way people behave when gas is the most expensive it has been since Jimmy Carter was President?
> Who was president?
>
> https://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Inflation-Adjusted-Gasoline-Price-Feb-2020-768x523.png
>
> Memory (or in Tom's case, "memory") can be a funny thing. The year I
> retired, at a faculty social gathering, a couple of right wing faculty
> members were mocking Jimmy Carter's imposition of the 55 MPH speed limit
> as a gas saving measure, talking about what a stupid and unproductive
> move that was.
>
> I said "Carter didn't do that. That was before Carter was elected. It
> was Nixon." But they were adamant, "Oh no, that was Carter's idea!" You
> know, because he was a crazy liberal.
>
> I told them to look it up when we got back to the office.
>
> Later that day, one of the two was gracious enough to send me an email
> apologizing. Unlike certain people here, he admitted he was wrong.

Franky baby - someone just sent me your posting. On a good day you're a stupid ass and this isn't a good day for Franky baby. Average price of gas during Nixon was 65 cents a gallon. Under Carter is shot up to $1.38 and adjusted for the inflation during Carter, it STAYED there for his entire term.

I'm getting pretty tired of your continuous lies.

On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 19:39:53 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 3/12/2022 7:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> Today is Saturday. On my Thursday ride I went up a narrow, barely two lane road. This is a difficult climb with areas flacking off over the side of a dropoff. The alternate route is over a minor climb and then it turns into a six lane road that is divided with a concrete island. The climb I was on is 1,000 feet high with many twists and turns and traffic sometimes going 45+ mph despite that this is a heavily used bicycle route that actually goes nowhere in particular. On the other side of the hill in another county there are a couple of housing areas but they rarely have people driving in or out. While I was on this road, traffic was coming by usually at 35+ mph despite the many blind turns. and they were coming by in groups of 10! Now exactly what was this about? They are paying $6/gallon for gasoline and then driving all they can possibly drive? Once in awhile a polite driver would come by at the safe speed of 25 and giving me room and passing ONLY when they could see ahead. But
>mostly they were in the largest groups I've ever seen on that road and driving like they should have their licenses suspended.
>>
>> On the back half of that ride there is also a narrow 2 lane and it too was filled with streams of bumper to bumper traffic travelling altogether too fast. But at least that road has a bike lane and there is a large new housing area of the top of that hill. But WHY were they blowing through gasoline at the prices they are out in the Livermore Valley?
>>
>> Coming back from today's ride we took a coffee break at a place in downtown San Leandro. I wasn't paying much attention to traffic since we were talking. But when we got up to leave you could not get out onto the roadway. And at the corner cars were driving directly through a stop sign to make certain that the three of us couldn't get out. We actually had to wait a minute or more for their to be an opening large enough that we could force our way in.
>>
>> Is this the way people behave when gas is the most expensive it has been since Jimmy Carter was President?
>
>Who was president?
>
>https://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Inflation-Adjusted-Gasoline-Price-Feb-2020-768x523.png
>
>Memory (or in Tom's case, "memory") can be a funny thing. The year I
>retired, at a faculty social gathering, a couple of right wing faculty
>members were mocking Jimmy Carter's imposition of the 55 MPH speed limit
>as a gas saving measure, talking about what a stupid and unproductive
>move that was.
>
>I said "Carter didn't do that. That was before Carter was elected. It
>was Nixon." But they were adamant, "Oh no, that was Carter's idea!" You
>know, because he was a crazy liberal.
>
>I told them to look it up when we got back to the office.
>
>Later that day, one of the two was gracious enough to send me an email
>apologizing. Unlike certain people here, he admitted he was wrong.
>
>- Frank Krygowski

Gee! I remember when 35 MPH was really thundering down the road... but
somehow we still "got there" (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 6:59:17 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 4:39:59 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 3/12/2022 7:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > Today is Saturday. On my Thursday ride I went up a narrow, barely two lane road. This is a difficult climb with areas flacking off over the side of a dropoff. The alternate route is over a minor climb and then it turns into a six lane road that is divided with a concrete island. The climb I was on is 1,000 feet high with many twists and turns and traffic sometimes going 45+ mph despite that this is a heavily used bicycle route that actually goes nowhere in particular. On the other side of the hill in another county there are a couple of housing areas but they rarely have people driving in or out. While I was on this road, traffic was coming by usually at 35+ mph despite the many blind turns. and they were coming by in groups of 10! Now exactly what was this about? They are paying $6/gallon for gasoline and then driving all they can possibly drive? Once in awhile a polite driver would come by at the safe speed of 25 and giving me room and passing ONLY when they could see ahead. But mostly they were in the largest groups I've ever seen on that road and driving like they should have their licenses suspended.
> > >
> > > On the back half of that ride there is also a narrow 2 lane and it too was filled with streams of bumper to bumper traffic travelling altogether too fast. But at least that road has a bike lane and there is a large new housing area of the top of that hill. But WHY were they blowing through gasoline at the prices they are out in the Livermore Valley?
> > >
> > > Coming back from today's ride we took a coffee break at a place in downtown San Leandro. I wasn't paying much attention to traffic since we were talking. But when we got up to leave you could not get out onto the roadway. And at the corner cars were driving directly through a stop sign to make certain that the three of us couldn't get out. We actually had to wait a minute or more for their to be an opening large enough that we could force our way in.
> > >
> > > Is this the way people behave when gas is the most expensive it has been since Jimmy Carter was President?
> > Who was president?
> >
> > https://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Inflation-Adjusted-Gasoline-Price-Feb-2020-768x523.png
> >
> > Memory (or in Tom's case, "memory") can be a funny thing. The year I
> > retired, at a faculty social gathering, a couple of right wing faculty
> > members were mocking Jimmy Carter's imposition of the 55 MPH speed limit
> > as a gas saving measure, talking about what a stupid and unproductive
> > move that was.
> >
> > I said "Carter didn't do that. That was before Carter was elected. It
> > was Nixon." But they were adamant, "Oh no, that was Carter's idea!" You
> > know, because he was a crazy liberal.
> >
> > I told them to look it up when we got back to the office.
> >
> > Later that day, one of the two was gracious enough to send me an email
> > apologizing. Unlike certain people here, he admitted he was wrong.
> Franky baby - someone just sent me your posting. On a good day you're a stupid ass and this isn't a good day for Franky baby. Average price of gas during Nixon was 65 cents a gallon. Under Carter is shot up to $1.38 and adjusted for the inflation during Carter, it STAYED there for his entire term.
>
> I'm getting pretty tired of your continuous lies.

Its utterly amazing how wrong Tommy boy can be. Under Carter (1977-80) it looks like average gas price was about 90 cents. Actual prices at the pump.. Not inflation adjusted. Under Nixon (1969-74) it looks like the average price was about 40 cents at the pump. Not inflation adjusted.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-915-march-7-2016-average-historical-annual-gasoline-pump-price-1929-2015
https://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Inflation-Adjusted-Gasoline-Price-Feb-2020-768x523.png

Tommy, don't you get tired of being wrong all the time?

On 3/12/2022 7:59 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 4:39:59 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 3/12/2022 7:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> Today is Saturday. On my Thursday ride I went up a narrow, barely two lane road. This is a difficult climb with areas flacking off over the side of a dropoff. The alternate route is over a minor climb and then it turns into a six lane road that is divided with a concrete island. The climb I was on is 1,000 feet high with many twists and turns and traffic sometimes going 45+ mph despite that this is a heavily used bicycle route that actually goes nowhere in particular. On the other side of the hill in another county there are a couple of housing areas but they rarely have people driving in or out. While I was on this road, traffic was coming by usually at 35+ mph despite the many blind turns. and they were coming by in groups of 10! Now exactly what was this about? They are paying $6/gallon for gasoline and then driving all they can possibly drive? Once in awhile a polite driver would come by at the safe speed of 25 and giving me room and passing ONLY when they could see ahead. But mostly they were in the largest groups I've ever seen on that road and driving like they should have their licenses suspended.
>>>
>>> On the back half of that ride there is also a narrow 2 lane and it too was filled with streams of bumper to bumper traffic travelling altogether too fast. But at least that road has a bike lane and there is a large new housing area of the top of that hill. But WHY were they blowing through gasoline at the prices they are out in the Livermore Valley?
>>>
>>> Coming back from today's ride we took a coffee break at a place in downtown San Leandro. I wasn't paying much attention to traffic since we were talking. But when we got up to leave you could not get out onto the roadway. And at the corner cars were driving directly through a stop sign to make certain that the three of us couldn't get out. We actually had to wait a minute or more for their to be an opening large enough that we could force our way in.
>>>
>>> Is this the way people behave when gas is the most expensive it has been since Jimmy Carter was President?
>> Who was president?
>>
>> https://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Inflation-Adjusted-Gasoline-Price-Feb-2020-768x523.png
>>
>> Memory (or in Tom's case, "memory") can be a funny thing. The year I
>> retired, at a faculty social gathering, a couple of right wing faculty
>> members were mocking Jimmy Carter's imposition of the 55 MPH speed limit
>> as a gas saving measure, talking about what a stupid and unproductive
>> move that was.
>>
>> I said "Carter didn't do that. That was before Carter was elected. It
>> was Nixon." But they were adamant, "Oh no, that was Carter's idea!" You
>> know, because he was a crazy liberal.
>>
>> I told them to look it up when we got back to the office.
>>
>> Later that day, one of the two was gracious enough to send me an email
>> apologizing. Unlike certain people here, he admitted he was wrong.
>
>
> Franky baby - someone just sent me your posting. On a good day you're a stupid ass and this isn't a good day for Franky baby. Average price of gas during Nixon was 65 cents a gallon. Under Carter is shot up to $1.38 and adjusted for the inflation during Carter, it STAYED there for his entire term.
>
> I'm getting pretty tired of your continuous lies.
Could you really not read the graph? in constant dollars, Reagan and
Bush had higher gas peak prices than Carter. So did Obama.
Which, BTW, is NOT the same thing as saying each of those presidents was
responsible for those peaks. It's rather simple minded for either the
left or the right to blame a particular president for a particular gas
price.
TRY not to be simple minded, Tom.
--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 21:18:21 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 3/12/2022 7:59 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 4:39:59 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 3/12/2022 7:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> Today is Saturday. On my Thursday ride I went up a narrow, barely two lane road. This is a difficult climb with areas flacking off over the side of a dropoff. The alternate route is over a minor climb and then it turns into a six lane road that is divided with a concrete island. The climb I was on is 1,000 feet high with many twists and turns and traffic sometimes going 45+ mph despite that this is a heavily used bicycle route that actually goes nowhere in particular. On the other side of the hill in another county there are a couple of housing areas but they rarely have people driving in or out. While I was on this road, traffic was coming by usually at 35+ mph despite the many blind turns. and they were coming by in groups of 10! Now exactly what was this about? They are paying $6/gallon for gasoline and then driving all they can possibly drive? Once in awhile a polite driver would come by at the safe speed of 25 and giving me room and passing ONLY when they could see ahead.
>But mostly they were in the largest groups I've ever seen on that road and driving like they should have their licenses suspended.
>>>>
>>>> On the back half of that ride there is also a narrow 2 lane and it too was filled with streams of bumper to bumper traffic travelling altogether too fast. But at least that road has a bike lane and there is a large new housing area of the top of that hill. But WHY were they blowing through gasoline at the prices they are out in the Livermore Valley?
>>>>
>>>> Coming back from today's ride we took a coffee break at a place in downtown San Leandro. I wasn't paying much attention to traffic since we were talking. But when we got up to leave you could not get out onto the roadway. And at the corner cars were driving directly through a stop sign to make certain that the three of us couldn't get out. We actually had to wait a minute or more for their to be an opening large enough that we could force our way in.
>>>>
>>>> Is this the way people behave when gas is the most expensive it has been since Jimmy Carter was President?
>>> Who was president?
>>>
>>> https://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Inflation-Adjusted-Gasoline-Price-Feb-2020-768x523.png
>>>
>>> Memory (or in Tom's case, "memory") can be a funny thing. The year I
>>> retired, at a faculty social gathering, a couple of right wing faculty
>>> members were mocking Jimmy Carter's imposition of the 55 MPH speed limit
>>> as a gas saving measure, talking about what a stupid and unproductive
>>> move that was.
>>>
>>> I said "Carter didn't do that. That was before Carter was elected. It
>>> was Nixon." But they were adamant, "Oh no, that was Carter's idea!" You
>>> know, because he was a crazy liberal.
>>>
>>> I told them to look it up when we got back to the office.
>>>
>>> Later that day, one of the two was gracious enough to send me an email
>>> apologizing. Unlike certain people here, he admitted he was wrong.
>>
>>
>> Franky baby - someone just sent me your posting. On a good day you're a stupid ass and this isn't a good day for Franky baby. Average price of gas during Nixon was 65 cents a gallon. Under Carter is shot up to $1.38 and adjusted for the inflation during Carter, it STAYED there for his entire term.
>>
>> I'm getting pretty tired of your continuous lies.
>
>Could you really not read the graph? in constant dollars, Reagan and
>Bush had higher gas peak prices than Carter. So did Obama.
>
>Which, BTW, is NOT the same thing as saying each of those presidents was
>responsible for those peaks. It's rather simple minded for either the
>left or the right to blame a particular president for a particular gas
>price.
>
>TRY not to be simple minded, Tom.

But on the other hand it is certainly a way to rationalize one's
shortcomings. You lose your money in a market that does nothing but go
up and instead of saying, "Well I made some really lousy choices
there", why, just blame it on the President.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 3/12/2022 6:39 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/12/2022 7:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> Today is Saturday. On my Thursday ride I went up a narrow,
>> barely two lane road. This is a difficult climb with areas
>> flacking off over the side of a dropoff. The alternate
>> route is over a minor climb and then it turns into a six
>> lane road that is divided with a concrete island. The
>> climb I was on is 1,000 feet high with many twists and
>> turns and traffic sometimes going 45+ mph despite that
>> this is a heavily used bicycle route that actually goes
>> nowhere in particular. On the other side of the hill in
>> another county there are a couple of housing areas but
>> they rarely have people driving in or out. While I was on
>> this road, traffic was coming by usually at 35+ mph
>> despite the many blind turns. and they were coming by in
>> groups of 10! Now exactly what was this about? They are
>> paying $6/gallon for gasoline and then driving all they
>> can possibly drive? Once in awhile a polite driver would
>> come by at the safe speed of 25 and giving me room and
>> passing ONLY when they could see ahead. But mostly they
>> were in the largest groups I've ever seen on that road and
>> driving like they should have their licenses suspended.
>>
>> On the back half of that ride there is also a narrow 2
>> lane and it too was filled with streams of bumper to
>> bumper traffic travelling altogether too fast. But at
>> least that road has a bike lane and there is a large new
>> housing area of the top of that hill. But WHY were they
>> blowing through gasoline at the prices they are out in the
>> Livermore Valley?
>>
>> Coming back from today's ride we took a coffee break at a
>> place in downtown San Leandro. I wasn't paying much
>> attention to traffic since we were talking. But when we
>> got up to leave you could not get out onto the roadway.
>> And at the corner cars were driving directly through a
>> stop sign to make certain that the three of us couldn't
>> get out. We actually had to wait a minute or more for
>> their to be an opening large enough that we could force
>> our way in.
>>
>> Is this the way people behave when gas is the most
>> expensive it has been since Jimmy Carter was President?
>
> Who was president?
>
> https://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Inflation-Adjusted-Gasoline-Price-Feb-2020-768x523.png
>
>
> Memory (or in Tom's case, "memory") can be a funny thing.
> The year I retired, at a faculty social gathering, a couple
> of right wing faculty members were mocking Jimmy Carter's
> imposition of the 55 MPH speed limit as a gas saving
> measure, talking about what a stupid and unproductive move
> that was.
>
> I said "Carter didn't do that. That was before Carter was
> elected. It was Nixon." But they were adamant, "Oh no, that
> was Carter's idea!" You know, because he was a crazy liberal.
>
> I told them to look it up when we got back to the office.
>
> Later that day, one of the two was gracious enough to send
> me an email apologizing. Unlike certain people here, he
> admitted he was wrong.
>
> - Frank Krygowski

+1

People are astounded when I note that the national idiocy of
a mandated 55mph was imposed under Mr Ford and removed by Mr
Clinton. Whether of the left or right persuasion, I always
get a challenge on that one!

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/12/2022 6:59 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 4:39:59 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 3/12/2022 7:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> Today is Saturday. On my Thursday ride I went up a narrow, barely two lane road. This is a difficult climb with areas flacking off over the side of a dropoff. The alternate route is over a minor climb and then it turns into a six lane road that is divided with a concrete island. The climb I was on is 1,000 feet high with many twists and turns and traffic sometimes going 45+ mph despite that this is a heavily used bicycle route that actually goes nowhere in particular. On the other side of the hill in another county there are a couple of housing areas but they rarely have people driving in or out. While I was on this road, traffic was coming by usually at 35+ mph despite the many blind turns. and they were coming by in groups of 10! Now exactly what was this about? They are paying $6/gallon for gasoline and then driving all they can possibly drive? Once in awhile a polite driver would come by at the safe speed of 25 and giving me room and passing ONLY when they could see ahead. B
ut mostly they were in the largest groups I've ever seen on that road and driving like they should have their licenses suspended.
>>>
>>> On the back half of that ride there is also a narrow 2 lane and it too was filled with streams of bumper to bumper traffic travelling altogether too fast. But at least that road has a bike lane and there is a large new housing area of the top of that hill. But WHY were they blowing through gasoline at the prices they are out in the Livermore Valley?
>>>
>>> Coming back from today's ride we took a coffee break at a place in downtown San Leandro. I wasn't paying much attention to traffic since we were talking. But when we got up to leave you could not get out onto the roadway. And at the corner cars were driving directly through a stop sign to make certain that the three of us couldn't get out. We actually had to wait a minute or more for their to be an opening large enough that we could force our way in.
>>>
>>> Is this the way people behave when gas is the most expensive it has been since Jimmy Carter was President?
>> Who was president?
>>
>> https://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Inflation-Adjusted-Gasoline-Price-Feb-2020-768x523.png
>>
>> Memory (or in Tom's case, "memory") can be a funny thing. The year I
>> retired, at a faculty social gathering, a couple of right wing faculty
>> members were mocking Jimmy Carter's imposition of the 55 MPH speed limit
>> as a gas saving measure, talking about what a stupid and unproductive
>> move that was.
>>
>> I said "Carter didn't do that. That was before Carter was elected. It
>> was Nixon." But they were adamant, "Oh no, that was Carter's idea!" You
>> know, because he was a crazy liberal.
>>
>> I told them to look it up when we got back to the office.
>>
>> Later that day, one of the two was gracious enough to send me an email
>> apologizing. Unlike certain people here, he admitted he was wrong.
>
>
> Franky baby - someone just sent me your posting. On a good day you're a stupid ass and this isn't a good day for Franky baby. Average price of gas during Nixon was 65 cents a gallon. Under Carter is shot up to $1.38 and adjusted for the inflation during Carter, it STAYED there for his entire term.
>
> I'm getting pretty tired of your continuous lies.
>

Retail nominal and inflation adjusted 1919~2010
here:http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2010/ph240/bui1/images/f2big.gif

2021 to 2022 nominal not inflation adjusted here:
https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/commodity-gasoline.png?s=xb1&v=202102180255V20200908

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 9:09:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/12/2022 6:39 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 3/12/2022 7:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> Today is Saturday. On my Thursday ride I went up a narrow,
> >> barely two lane road. This is a difficult climb with areas
> >> flacking off over the side of a dropoff. The alternate
> >> route is over a minor climb and then it turns into a six
> >> lane road that is divided with a concrete island. The
> >> climb I was on is 1,000 feet high with many twists and
> >> turns and traffic sometimes going 45+ mph despite that
> >> this is a heavily used bicycle route that actually goes
> >> nowhere in particular. On the other side of the hill in
> >> another county there are a couple of housing areas but
> >> they rarely have people driving in or out. While I was on
> >> this road, traffic was coming by usually at 35+ mph
> >> despite the many blind turns. and they were coming by in
> >> groups of 10! Now exactly what was this about? They are
> >> paying $6/gallon for gasoline and then driving all they
> >> can possibly drive? Once in awhile a polite driver would
> >> come by at the safe speed of 25 and giving me room and
> >> passing ONLY when they could see ahead. But mostly they
> >> were in the largest groups I've ever seen on that road and
> >> driving like they should have their licenses suspended.
> >>
> >> On the back half of that ride there is also a narrow 2
> >> lane and it too was filled with streams of bumper to
> >> bumper traffic travelling altogether too fast. But at
> >> least that road has a bike lane and there is a large new
> >> housing area of the top of that hill. But WHY were they
> >> blowing through gasoline at the prices they are out in the
> >> Livermore Valley?
> >>
> >> Coming back from today's ride we took a coffee break at a
> >> place in downtown San Leandro. I wasn't paying much
> >> attention to traffic since we were talking. But when we
> >> got up to leave you could not get out onto the roadway.
> >> And at the corner cars were driving directly through a
> >> stop sign to make certain that the three of us couldn't
> >> get out. We actually had to wait a minute or more for
> >> their to be an opening large enough that we could force
> >> our way in.
> >>
> >> Is this the way people behave when gas is the most
> >> expensive it has been since Jimmy Carter was President?
> >
> > Who was president?
> >
> > https://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Inflation-Adjusted-Gasoline-Price-Feb-2020-768x523.png
> >
> >
> > Memory (or in Tom's case, "memory") can be a funny thing.
> > The year I retired, at a faculty social gathering, a couple
> > of right wing faculty members were mocking Jimmy Carter's
> > imposition of the 55 MPH speed limit as a gas saving
> > measure, talking about what a stupid and unproductive move
> > that was.
> >
> > I said "Carter didn't do that. That was before Carter was
> > elected. It was Nixon." But they were adamant, "Oh no, that
> > was Carter's idea!" You know, because he was a crazy liberal.
> >
> > I told them to look it up when we got back to the office.
> >
> > Later that day, one of the two was gracious enough to send
> > me an email apologizing. Unlike certain people here, he
> > admitted he was wrong.
> >
> > - Frank Krygowski
> +1
>
> People are astounded when I note that the national idiocy of
> a mandated 55mph was imposed under Mr Ford and removed by Mr
> Clinton. Whether of the left or right persuasion, I always
> get a challenge on that one!

Frank hands you a list of gas prices showing that they were lowest under Ford and on that list, highest under Obama, Noe Biden has dwarfed both the price of gasoline and the rates of inflation. What in the hell is he arguing about this for?

"Here's an astonishing read. Important and verifiable information:
About 6 months ago, there was a news program on oil and one of The Forbes Bros. was the guest. The host said to Forbes, "I am going to ask you a direct question and I would like a direct answer; how much oil does the U.S. Have in the ground?" Forbes did not miss a beat, he said, "More than all the Middle East put Together."
The U.S. Geological Service issued a report in April 2008 that only Scientists and oil men knew was coming, but man was it big. It was a revised report (hadn't been updated since 1995) on how much oil was in this area of the western 2/3 of North Dakota, western South Dakota, and Extreme eastern Montana.
Check THIS out:
The Bakken is the largest domestic oil discovery since Alaska's Prudhoe Bay and has the potential to eliminate all American dependence on foreign oil. The Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates it at 503 billion barrels. Even if just 10% of the oil is recoverable (5 Billion barrels), at $107 a barrel, we're looking at a resource base worth more than $5.3 trillion. "When I first briefed legislators on this, you could practically see their Jaws hit the floor.
They had no idea." says Terry Johnson, the Montana Legislature's financial analyzer. "This sizable find is now the highest-producing onshore oil field found in the past 56 years," reports The Pittsburgh Post Gazette.
It's a formation known as the Williston Basin but is more commonly referred to as the 'Bakken.' It stretches from Northern Montana, through North Dakota and into Canada. For years, U.S. Oil exploration has been considered a dead end. Even the 'Big Oil' companies gave up searching for major oil wells decades ago.
However, a recent technological breakthrough has opened up the Bakken's Massive reserves, And, we now have access of up to 500 billion barrels. And because this is Light, sweet oil, those billions of barrels will cost Americans just $16 PER BARREL!!!!! That's enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 2041 years Straight. And if THAT didn't throw you on the floor, then this next one should - Because it's from 2006 !!!!!!
U.S. Oil Discovery - Largest Reserve in the World Stansberry Report Online - 4/20/2006. Hidden 1,000 feet beneath the surface of the Rocky Mountains lies the Largest untapped oil reserve in the world. It is more than 2 TRILLION barrels. On August 8, 2005 President Bush Mandated its extraction. In many recent years of high oil prices none has been extracted. With this mother lode of oil why are we still fighting over off-shore Drilling?
They reported this stunning news: We have more oil inside our borders, than all the other proven reserves on Earth.
Here are the official estimates:
8 times as much oil as Saudi Arabia
18 times as much oil as Iraq
21 times as much oil as Kuwait
22 times as much oil as Iran
500 times as much oil as Yemen
And it's all right here in the Western United States !!!!!!
HOW can this BE? HOW can we NOT BE extracting this? Because the Environmentalists and others have blocked all efforts to help America become Independent of foreign oil! Again, we are letting a small group of people Dictate our lives and our economy. WHY?
James Bartis, lead researcher with the study says we've got more oil in this very compact area than the entire Middle East, more than 2 TRILLION barrels Untapped. That's more than all the proven oil reserves of crude oil in the World today, reports The Denver Post.
Don't think 'OPEC' will drop its price even with this find? Think again! It's all about the competitive marketplace, it has to. Think OPEC just might be funding the environmentalists?
Got your attention yet? Now, while you're thinking about it, do this:
Pass this along If you don't take a little time to do this, then you should stifle yourself the next time you complain about gas prices, by doing NOTHING, you forfeit your right to complain.
Now I just wonder what would happen in this country if every one of you sent this to everyone in your address book.
By the way, this can be verified. Check it out at the link below !!!!!!

USGS Releases Oil and Gas Assessment for the Bakken and Three Forks Formations of Montana and North Dakota | U.S. Geological Survey [usgs.gov]"

The really creepy thing is that people tell us how trustful the Biden government is and then ignore the USGS telling you that we have 2000 years of oil in ONE formation.

On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 9:31:24 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/12/2022 6:59 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 4:39:59 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 3/12/2022 7:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> Today is Saturday. On my Thursday ride I went up a narrow, barely two lane road. This is a difficult climb with areas flacking off over the side of a dropoff. The alternate route is over a minor climb and then it turns into a six lane road that is divided with a concrete island. The climb I was on is 1,000 feet high with many twists and turns and traffic sometimes going 45+ mph despite that this is a heavily used bicycle route that actually goes nowhere in particular. On the other side of the hill in another county there are a couple of housing areas but they rarely have people driving in or out. While I was on this road, traffic was coming by usually at 35+ mph despite the many blind turns. and they were coming by in groups of 10! Now exactly what was this about? They are paying $6/gallon for gasoline and then driving all they can possibly drive? Once in awhile a polite driver would come by at the safe speed of 25 and giving me room and passing ONLY when they could see ahead. B
> ut mostly they were in the largest groups I've ever seen on that road and driving like they should have their licenses suspended.
> >>>
> >>> On the back half of that ride there is also a narrow 2 lane and it too was filled with streams of bumper to bumper traffic travelling altogether too fast. But at least that road has a bike lane and there is a large new housing area of the top of that hill. But WHY were they blowing through gasoline at the prices they are out in the Livermore Valley?
> >>>
> >>> Coming back from today's ride we took a coffee break at a place in downtown San Leandro. I wasn't paying much attention to traffic since we were talking. But when we got up to leave you could not get out onto the roadway. And at the corner cars were driving directly through a stop sign to make certain that the three of us couldn't get out. We actually had to wait a minute or more for their to be an opening large enough that we could force our way in.
> >>>
> >>> Is this the way people behave when gas is the most expensive it has been since Jimmy Carter was President?
> >> Who was president?
> >>
> >> https://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Inflation-Adjusted-Gasoline-Price-Feb-2020-768x523.png
> >>
> >> Memory (or in Tom's case, "memory") can be a funny thing. The year I
> >> retired, at a faculty social gathering, a couple of right wing faculty
> >> members were mocking Jimmy Carter's imposition of the 55 MPH speed limit
> >> as a gas saving measure, talking about what a stupid and unproductive
> >> move that was.
> >>
> >> I said "Carter didn't do that. That was before Carter was elected. It
> >> was Nixon." But they were adamant, "Oh no, that was Carter's idea!" You
> >> know, because he was a crazy liberal.
> >>
> >> I told them to look it up when we got back to the office.
> >>
> >> Later that day, one of the two was gracious enough to send me an email
> >> apologizing. Unlike certain people here, he admitted he was wrong.
> >
> >
> > Franky baby - someone just sent me your posting. On a good day you're a stupid ass and this isn't a good day for Franky baby. Average price of gas during Nixon was 65 cents a gallon. Under Carter is shot up to $1.38 and adjusted for the inflation during Carter, it STAYED there for his entire term.
> >
> > I'm getting pretty tired of your continuous lies.
> >
> Retail nominal and inflation adjusted 1919~2010
> here:http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2010/ph240/bui1/images/f2big.gif
>
> 2021 to 2022 nominal not inflation adjusted here:
> https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/commodity-gasoline.png?s=xb1&v=202102180255V20200908

I think that you're beating a dead horse as far as Frank is concerned, Showing him the highest inflation in modern history to be from Carter and now Biden making that look like nothing at all simply cannot be understood.

And this has vast effects in the rest of the world.

On 3/13/2022 12:43 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 9:09:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 3/12/2022 6:39 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 3/12/2022 7:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is this the way people behave when gas is the most
>>>> expensive it has been since Jimmy Carter was President?
>>>
>>> Who was president?
>>>
>>> https://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Inflation-Adjusted-Gasoline-Price-Feb-2020-768x523.png
>>>
>>>
>>> Memory (or in Tom's case, "memory") can be a funny thing.
>>>
>
> Frank hands you a list of gas prices showing that they were lowest under Ford and on that list, highest under Obama, Noe Biden has dwarfed both the price of gasoline and the rates of inflation. What in the hell is he arguing about this for?

Oh, I was just doing the usual, Tom: showing that you post a lot of
nonsense.

In this case it was your "most expensive [gas] since Jimmy Carter was
president." Yes, I should just ignore your nonsense, but when the
correct facts are so easily available, it's hard.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/13/2022 11:43 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 9:09:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 3/12/2022 6:39 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 3/12/2022 7:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> Today is Saturday. On my Thursday ride I went up a narrow,
>>>> barely two lane road. This is a difficult climb with areas
>>>> flacking off over the side of a dropoff. The alternate
>>>> route is over a minor climb and then it turns into a six
>>>> lane road that is divided with a concrete island. The
>>>> climb I was on is 1,000 feet high with many twists and
>>>> turns and traffic sometimes going 45+ mph despite that
>>>> this is a heavily used bicycle route that actually goes
>>>> nowhere in particular. On the other side of the hill in
>>>> another county there are a couple of housing areas but
>>>> they rarely have people driving in or out. While I was on
>>>> this road, traffic was coming by usually at 35+ mph
>>>> despite the many blind turns. and they were coming by in
>>>> groups of 10! Now exactly what was this about? They are
>>>> paying $6/gallon for gasoline and then driving all they
>>>> can possibly drive? Once in awhile a polite driver would
>>>> come by at the safe speed of 25 and giving me room and
>>>> passing ONLY when they could see ahead. But mostly they
>>>> were in the largest groups I've ever seen on that road and
>>>> driving like they should have their licenses suspended.
>>>>
>>>> On the back half of that ride there is also a narrow 2
>>>> lane and it too was filled with streams of bumper to
>>>> bumper traffic travelling altogether too fast. But at
>>>> least that road has a bike lane and there is a large new
>>>> housing area of the top of that hill. But WHY were they
>>>> blowing through gasoline at the prices they are out in the
>>>> Livermore Valley?
>>>>
>>>> Coming back from today's ride we took a coffee break at a
>>>> place in downtown San Leandro. I wasn't paying much
>>>> attention to traffic since we were talking. But when we
>>>> got up to leave you could not get out onto the roadway.
>>>> And at the corner cars were driving directly through a
>>>> stop sign to make certain that the three of us couldn't
>>>> get out. We actually had to wait a minute or more for
>>>> their to be an opening large enough that we could force
>>>> our way in.
>>>>
>>>> Is this the way people behave when gas is the most
>>>> expensive it has been since Jimmy Carter was President?
>>>
>>> Who was president?
>>>
>>> https://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Inflation-Adjusted-Gasoline-Price-Feb-2020-768x523.png
>>>
>>>
>>> Memory (or in Tom's case, "memory") can be a funny thing.
>>> The year I retired, at a faculty social gathering, a couple
>>> of right wing faculty members were mocking Jimmy Carter's
>>> imposition of the 55 MPH speed limit as a gas saving
>>> measure, talking about what a stupid and unproductive move
>>> that was.
>>>
>>> I said "Carter didn't do that. That was before Carter was
>>> elected. It was Nixon." But they were adamant, "Oh no, that
>>> was Carter's idea!" You know, because he was a crazy liberal.
>>>
>>> I told them to look it up when we got back to the office.
>>>
>>> Later that day, one of the two was gracious enough to send
>>> me an email apologizing. Unlike certain people here, he
>>> admitted he was wrong.
>>>
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>> +1
>>
>> People are astounded when I note that the national idiocy of
>> a mandated 55mph was imposed under Mr Ford and removed by Mr
>> Clinton. Whether of the left or right persuasion, I always
>> get a challenge on that one!
>
> Frank hands you a list of gas prices showing that they were lowest under Ford and on that list, highest under Obama, Noe Biden has dwarfed both the price of gasoline and the rates of inflation. What in the hell is he arguing about this for?
>
> "Here's an astonishing read. Important and verifiable information:
>
> About 6 months ago, there was a news program on oil and one of The Forbes Bros. was the guest. The host said to Forbes, "I am going to ask you a direct question and I would like a direct answer; how much oil does the U.S. Have in the ground?" Forbes did not miss a beat, he said, "More than all the Middle East put Together."
>
> The U.S. Geological Service issued a report in April 2008 that only Scientists and oil men knew was coming, but man was it big. It was a revised report (hadn't been updated since 1995) on how much oil was in this area of the western 2/3 of North Dakota, western South Dakota, and Extreme eastern Montana.
>
> Check THIS out:
>
> The Bakken is the largest domestic oil discovery since Alaska's Prudhoe Bay and has the potential to eliminate all American dependence on foreign oil. The Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates it at 503 billion barrels. Even if just 10% of the oil is recoverable (5 Billion barrels), at $107 a barrel, we're looking at a resource base worth more than $5.3 trillion. "When I first briefed legislators on this, you could practically see their Jaws hit the floor.
>
> They had no idea." says Terry Johnson, the Montana Legislature's financial analyzer. "This sizable find is now the highest-producing onshore oil field found in the past 56 years," reports The Pittsburgh Post Gazette.
>
> It's a formation known as the Williston Basin but is more commonly referred to as the 'Bakken.' It stretches from Northern Montana, through North Dakota and into Canada. For years, U.S. Oil exploration has been considered a dead end. Even the 'Big Oil' companies gave up searching for major oil wells decades ago.
>
> However, a recent technological breakthrough has opened up the Bakken's Massive reserves, And, we now have access of up to 500 billion barrels. And because this is Light, sweet oil, those billions of barrels will cost Americans just $16 PER BARREL!!!!! That's enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 2041 years Straight. And if THAT didn't throw you on the floor, then this next one should - Because it's from 2006 !!!!!!
>
> U.S. Oil Discovery - Largest Reserve in the World Stansberry Report Online - 4/20/2006. Hidden 1,000 feet beneath the surface of the Rocky Mountains lies the Largest untapped oil reserve in the world. It is more than 2 TRILLION barrels. On August 8, 2005 President Bush Mandated its extraction. In many recent years of high oil prices none has been extracted. With this mother lode of oil why are we still fighting over off-shore Drilling?
>
> They reported this stunning news: We have more oil inside our borders, than all the other proven reserves on Earth.
>
> Here are the official estimates:
> 8 times as much oil as Saudi Arabia
> 18 times as much oil as Iraq
> 21 times as much oil as Kuwait
> 22 times as much oil as Iran
> 500 times as much oil as Yemen
>
> And it's all right here in the Western United States !!!!!!
>
> HOW can this BE? HOW can we NOT BE extracting this? Because the Environmentalists and others have blocked all efforts to help America become Independent of foreign oil! Again, we are letting a small group of people Dictate our lives and our economy. WHY?
>
> James Bartis, lead researcher with the study says we've got more oil in this very compact area than the entire Middle East, more than 2 TRILLION barrels Untapped. That's more than all the proven oil reserves of crude oil in the World today, reports The Denver Post.
>
> Don't think 'OPEC' will drop its price even with this find? Think again! It's all about the competitive marketplace, it has to. Think OPEC just might be funding the environmentalists?
>
> Got your attention yet? Now, while you're thinking about it, do this:
>
> Pass this along If you don't take a little time to do this, then you should stifle yourself the next time you complain about gas prices, by doing NOTHING, you forfeit your right to complain.
>
> Now I just wonder what would happen in this country if every one of you sent this to everyone in your address book.
>
> By the way, this can be verified. Check it out at the link below !!!!!!
>
>
> USGS Releases Oil and Gas Assessment for the Bakken and Three Forks Formations of Montana and North Dakota | U.S. Geological Survey [usgs.gov]"
>
> The really creepy thing is that people tell us how trustful the Biden government is and then ignore the USGS telling you that we have 2000 years of oil in ONE formation.
>

On 3/13/2022 11:48 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 9:31:24 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 3/12/2022 6:59 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 4:39:59 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 3/12/2022 7:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> Today is Saturday. On my Thursday ride I went up a narrow, barely two lane road. This is a difficult climb with areas flacking off over the side of a dropoff. The alternate route is over a minor climb and then it turns into a six lane road that is divided with a concrete island. The climb I was on is 1,000 feet high with many twists and turns and traffic sometimes going 45+ mph despite that this is a heavily used bicycle route that actually goes nowhere in particular. On the other side of the hill in another county there are a couple of housing areas but they rarely have people driving in or out. While I was on this road, traffic was coming by usually at 35+ mph despite the many blind turns. and they were coming by in groups of 10! Now exactly what was this about? They are paying $6/gallon for gasoline and then driving all they can possibly drive? Once in awhile a polite driver would come by at the safe speed of 25 and giving me room and passing ONLY when they could see ahead.
B
>> ut mostly they were in the largest groups I've ever seen on that road and driving like they should have their licenses suspended.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the back half of that ride there is also a narrow 2 lane and it too was filled with streams of bumper to bumper traffic travelling altogether too fast. But at least that road has a bike lane and there is a large new housing area of the top of that hill. But WHY were they blowing through gasoline at the prices they are out in the Livermore Valley?
>>>>>
>>>>> Coming back from today's ride we took a coffee break at a place in downtown San Leandro. I wasn't paying much attention to traffic since we were talking. But when we got up to leave you could not get out onto the roadway. And at the corner cars were driving directly through a stop sign to make certain that the three of us couldn't get out. We actually had to wait a minute or more for their to be an opening large enough that we could force our way in.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this the way people behave when gas is the most expensive it has been since Jimmy Carter was President?
>>>> Who was president?
>>>>
>>>> https://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Inflation-Adjusted-Gasoline-Price-Feb-2020-768x523.png
>>>>
>>>> Memory (or in Tom's case, "memory") can be a funny thing. The year I
>>>> retired, at a faculty social gathering, a couple of right wing faculty
>>>> members were mocking Jimmy Carter's imposition of the 55 MPH speed limit
>>>> as a gas saving measure, talking about what a stupid and unproductive
>>>> move that was.
>>>>
>>>> I said "Carter didn't do that. That was before Carter was elected. It
>>>> was Nixon." But they were adamant, "Oh no, that was Carter's idea!" You
>>>> know, because he was a crazy liberal.
>>>>
>>>> I told them to look it up when we got back to the office.
>>>>
>>>> Later that day, one of the two was gracious enough to send me an email
>>>> apologizing. Unlike certain people here, he admitted he was wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>> Franky baby - someone just sent me your posting. On a good day you're a stupid ass and this isn't a good day for Franky baby. Average price of gas during Nixon was 65 cents a gallon. Under Carter is shot up to $1.38 and adjusted for the inflation during Carter, it STAYED there for his entire term.
>>>
>>> I'm getting pretty tired of your continuous lies.
>>>
>> Retail nominal and inflation adjusted 1919~2010
>> here:http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2010/ph240/bui1/images/f2big.gif
>>
>> 2021 to 2022 nominal not inflation adjusted here:
>> https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/commodity-gasoline.png?s=xb1&v=202102180255V20200908
>
> I think that you're beating a dead horse as far as Frank is concerned, Showing him the highest inflation in modern history to be from Carter and now Biden making that look like nothing at all simply cannot be understood.
>
> And this has vast effects in the rest of the world.
>

I responded to fuel retail price over time.

CPI inflation is calculated very differently from the 1970s
now. Using the old rules we're beyond anything previously
seen. And trending higher.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 10:52:50 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/13/2022 11:43 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 9:09:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 3/12/2022 6:39 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>> On 3/12/2022 7:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> Today is Saturday. On my Thursday ride I went up a narrow,
> >>>> barely two lane road. This is a difficult climb with areas
> >>>> flacking off over the side of a dropoff. The alternate
> >>>> route is over a minor climb and then it turns into a six
> >>>> lane road that is divided with a concrete island. The
> >>>> climb I was on is 1,000 feet high with many twists and
> >>>> turns and traffic sometimes going 45+ mph despite that
> >>>> this is a heavily used bicycle route that actually goes
> >>>> nowhere in particular. On the other side of the hill in
> >>>> another county there are a couple of housing areas but
> >>>> they rarely have people driving in or out. While I was on
> >>>> this road, traffic was coming by usually at 35+ mph
> >>>> despite the many blind turns. and they were coming by in
> >>>> groups of 10! Now exactly what was this about? They are
> >>>> paying $6/gallon for gasoline and then driving all they
> >>>> can possibly drive? Once in awhile a polite driver would
> >>>> come by at the safe speed of 25 and giving me room and
> >>>> passing ONLY when they could see ahead. But mostly they
> >>>> were in the largest groups I've ever seen on that road and
> >>>> driving like they should have their licenses suspended.
> >>>>
> >>>> On the back half of that ride there is also a narrow 2
> >>>> lane and it too was filled with streams of bumper to
> >>>> bumper traffic travelling altogether too fast. But at
> >>>> least that road has a bike lane and there is a large new
> >>>> housing area of the top of that hill. But WHY were they
> >>>> blowing through gasoline at the prices they are out in the
> >>>> Livermore Valley?
> >>>>
> >>>> Coming back from today's ride we took a coffee break at a
> >>>> place in downtown San Leandro. I wasn't paying much
> >>>> attention to traffic since we were talking. But when we
> >>>> got up to leave you could not get out onto the roadway.
> >>>> And at the corner cars were driving directly through a
> >>>> stop sign to make certain that the three of us couldn't
> >>>> get out. We actually had to wait a minute or more for
> >>>> their to be an opening large enough that we could force
> >>>> our way in.
> >>>>
> >>>> Is this the way people behave when gas is the most
> >>>> expensive it has been since Jimmy Carter was President?
> >>>
> >>> Who was president?
> >>>
> >>> https://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Inflation-Adjusted-Gasoline-Price-Feb-2020-768x523.png
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Memory (or in Tom's case, "memory") can be a funny thing.
> >>> The year I retired, at a faculty social gathering, a couple
> >>> of right wing faculty members were mocking Jimmy Carter's
> >>> imposition of the 55 MPH speed limit as a gas saving
> >>> measure, talking about what a stupid and unproductive move
> >>> that was.
> >>>
> >>> I said "Carter didn't do that. That was before Carter was
> >>> elected. It was Nixon." But they were adamant, "Oh no, that
> >>> was Carter's idea!" You know, because he was a crazy liberal.
> >>>
> >>> I told them to look it up when we got back to the office.
> >>>
> >>> Later that day, one of the two was gracious enough to send
> >>> me an email apologizing. Unlike certain people here, he
> >>> admitted he was wrong.
> >>>
> >>> - Frank Krygowski
> >> +1
> >>
> >> People are astounded when I note that the national idiocy of
> >> a mandated 55mph was imposed under Mr Ford and removed by Mr
> >> Clinton. Whether of the left or right persuasion, I always
> >> get a challenge on that one!
> >
> > Frank hands you a list of gas prices showing that they were lowest under Ford and on that list, highest under Obama, Noe Biden has dwarfed both the price of gasoline and the rates of inflation. What in the hell is he arguing about this for?
> >
> > "Here's an astonishing read. Important and verifiable information:
> >
> > About 6 months ago, there was a news program on oil and one of The Forbes Bros. was the guest. The host said to Forbes, "I am going to ask you a direct question and I would like a direct answer; how much oil does the U.S. Have in the ground?" Forbes did not miss a beat, he said, "More than all the Middle East put Together."
> >
> > The U.S. Geological Service issued a report in April 2008 that only Scientists and oil men knew was coming, but man was it big. It was a revised report (hadn't been updated since 1995) on how much oil was in this area of the western 2/3 of North Dakota, western South Dakota, and Extreme eastern Montana.
> >
> > Check THIS out:
> >
> > The Bakken is the largest domestic oil discovery since Alaska's Prudhoe Bay and has the potential to eliminate all American dependence on foreign oil. The Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates it at 503 billion barrels. Even if just 10% of the oil is recoverable (5 Billion barrels), at $107 a barrel, we're looking at a resource base worth more than $5.3 trillion. "When I first briefed legislators on this, you could practically see their Jaws hit the floor.
> >
> > They had no idea." says Terry Johnson, the Montana Legislature's financial analyzer. "This sizable find is now the highest-producing onshore oil field found in the past 56 years," reports The Pittsburgh Post Gazette.
> >
> > It's a formation known as the Williston Basin but is more commonly referred to as the 'Bakken.' It stretches from Northern Montana, through North Dakota and into Canada. For years, U.S. Oil exploration has been considered a dead end. Even the 'Big Oil' companies gave up searching for major oil wells decades ago.
> >
> > However, a recent technological breakthrough has opened up the Bakken's Massive reserves, And, we now have access of up to 500 billion barrels. And because this is Light, sweet oil, those billions of barrels will cost Americans just $16 PER BARREL!!!!! That's enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 2041 years Straight. And if THAT didn't throw you on the floor, then this next one should - Because it's from 2006 !!!!!!
> >
> > U.S. Oil Discovery - Largest Reserve in the World Stansberry Report Online - 4/20/2006. Hidden 1,000 feet beneath the surface of the Rocky Mountains lies the Largest untapped oil reserve in the world. It is more than 2 TRILLION barrels. On August 8, 2005 President Bush Mandated its extraction. In many recent years of high oil prices none has been extracted. With this mother lode of oil why are we still fighting over off-shore Drilling?
> >
> > They reported this stunning news: We have more oil inside our borders, than all the other proven reserves on Earth.
> >
> > Here are the official estimates:
> > 8 times as much oil as Saudi Arabia
> > 18 times as much oil as Iraq
> > 21 times as much oil as Kuwait
> > 22 times as much oil as Iran
> > 500 times as much oil as Yemen
> >
> > And it's all right here in the Western United States !!!!!!
> >
> > HOW can this BE? HOW can we NOT BE extracting this? Because the Environmentalists and others have blocked all efforts to help America become Independent of foreign oil! Again, we are letting a small group of people Dictate our lives and our economy. WHY?
> >
> > James Bartis, lead researcher with the study says we've got more oil in this very compact area than the entire Middle East, more than 2 TRILLION barrels Untapped. That's more than all the proven oil reserves of crude oil in the World today, reports The Denver Post.
> >
> > Don't think 'OPEC' will drop its price even with this find? Think again! It's all about the competitive marketplace, it has to. Think OPEC just might be funding the environmentalists?
> >
> > Got your attention yet? Now, while you're thinking about it, do this:
> >
> > Pass this along If you don't take a little time to do this, then you should stifle yourself the next time you complain about gas prices, by doing NOTHING, you forfeit your right to complain.
> >
> > Now I just wonder what would happen in this country if every one of you sent this to everyone in your address book.
> >
> > By the way, this can be verified. Check it out at the link below !!!!!!
> >
> >
> > USGS Releases Oil and Gas Assessment for the Bakken and Three Forks Formations of Montana and North Dakota | U.S. Geological Survey [usgs.gov]"
> >
> > The really creepy thing is that people tell us how trustful the Biden government is and then ignore the USGS telling you that we have 2000 years of oil in ONE formation.
> >
> Warren Harding's NPRA-4 Oil Reserve, about the size of
> Indiana, mostly unpopulated, and even yet mostly undeveloped
> for extraction:
> https://www.blm.gov/programs/energy-and-minerals/oil-and-gas/about/alaska/NPR-A
>
>
> Not to be confused with the similarly gargantuan ANWR reserves:
> https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-oil/alaska-an-energy-and-economic-analysis/

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 11:30:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 09:43:25 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
><cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Here are the official estimates:
>> 8 times as much oil as Saudi Arabia
>
>You might want to use a more up to date source.
>
>"The USGS has completed an oil and gas estimate for the Bakken and
>Three Forks Formations in the Williston Basin of Montana and North
>Dakota."
><https://www.usgs.gov/news/national-news-release/usgs-releases-oil-and-gas-assessment-bakken-and-three-forks-formations>
>"A substantial amount of drilling (over 11,000 wells) has occurred in
>the basin since 2013..."
>
>"Does the Bakken Formation contain more oil than Saudi Arabia?"
><https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/does-bakken-formation-contain-more-oil-saudi-arabia>
>"Probably not. In 2000, the USGS assessed undiscovered, technically
>recoverable oil and gas in Saudi Arabia at 87 billion barrels (USGS
>2000 World Petroleum Assessment ) compared to a mean estimate of
>undiscovered, technically recoverable oil in the Bakken formation of
>4.3 billion barrels."
>
>"What are some of the difficulties of drilling in the Bakken
>Formation?"
><https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/what-are-some-difficulties-drilling-bakken-formation>
>"...Bakken Formation is a relatively tight formation with low porosity
>and low permeability rock, from which oil flows with difficulty. To
>overcome this problem, wells in the Bakken Formation use a method
>called hydraulic fracturing (aka fracking)..."
>
>More on Bakken from USGS:
><https://www.usgs.gov/search?keywords=Oil%20and%20Gas%20-%20Bakken%20Formation>

I've not reviewed the details of the Bakkwn field but even a casual
look shows that costs in the Bakkwn field are considerably higher then
in other countries. Using generally accepted figures the cost of
extraction is about $8.89/bbl in places like Saudi Arabia, while in
general "Shale Oil", which the Bakkwn field is, is in the neighborhood
of US$23.35.

A oil companies, just like other businesses, can count. Shale Oil
drilling and production is viable only when oil sells for high prices.

Another point is that "Fraking" has been blamed for causing earth
quakes and yes, there is evidence, or at least the USGS states that
"The largest earthquake known to be induced by hydraulic fracturing in
the United States was a magnitude 4.0 earthquake that occurred in 2018
in Texas."
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 3/13/2022 3:04 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> Frank has lately made claims that he would never have dared to with Jobst around because Jobst would call him on it in a second.
:-) Ah yes, Jobst was such a Tom Kunich fan!

Jobst and I disagreed on some points. We agreed on many, many others and
corresponded quite pleasantly. He was very opinionated, but I thought
his opinions were usually well grounded in technical facts.

He was technically brilliant. And - get this! - he was educated! He even
had companies that employed him for more than two years!

If you want to dispute something I say, Tom, do it with factual
information properly cited, as Jobst might do.

- Frank Krygowski

On 3/13/2022 4:04 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 11:30:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
>
>> More on Bakken from USGS:
>> <https://www.usgs.gov/search?keywords=Oil%20and%20Gas%20-%20Bakken%20Formation>
>
> Looks like they drilled but were not thrilled:
>
> "The Bakken Boom Goes Bust With No Money to Clean up the Mess" (Aug 8,
> 2020):
> <https://www.desmog.com/2020/08/08/bakken-fracking-oil-boom-bust-hess-cleanup/>
>
> "More than a decade ago, fracking took off in the Bakken shale of
> North Dakota and Montana, but the oil rush that followed has resulted
> in major environmental damage, risky oil transportation without
> regulation, pipeline permitting issues, and failure to produce
> profits."
>
> "More than a decade after the Bakken boom started, North Dakota was
> flaring 23 percent of the gas produced via fracking - making a mockery
> of the state’s flaring regulations."
>
> "Another major blindspot for the industry and regulators has been the
> radioactive waste produced during fracking."
>
> "The state recently decided to use $66 million in federal funds
> designated for coronavirus relief to begin cleaning up wells the oil
> industry has abandoned - costs that the industry should be covering,
> according to the law, but that are now shifted to the public."
>
> "All of the evidence strongly suggest that the Bakken is an oil field
> on the decline."
>
> Tom: Notice that I'm including the source of my info and the date of
> publication. The date is important so that you don't accidentally
> post ancient and out of date stories, numbers, and rants. If you find
> it necessary to hide your sources at least provide the date of
> publication.
>
> [ About 30 minutes wasted cleaning up after Tom's toxic misinformation
> spill. ]
>

in re ND flaring: The profusion of small operations over a
large area and the religious fervor against pipelines made
gas transport very difficult as compared to, say, Permian in
Texas:
https://pgjonline.com/news/2017/01/navigator-energy-services-expands-bsg-system-begins-open-season

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dgyj361V4AEw67S.jpg:large

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/13/2022 5:53 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 11:30:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 09:43:25 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Here are the official estimates:
>>> 8 times as much oil as Saudi Arabia
>>
>> You might want to use a more up to date source.
>>
>> "The USGS has completed an oil and gas estimate for the Bakken and
>> Three Forks Formations in the Williston Basin of Montana and North
>> Dakota."
>> <https://www.usgs.gov/news/national-news-release/usgs-releases-oil-and-gas-assessment-bakken-and-three-forks-formations>
>> "A substantial amount of drilling (over 11,000 wells) has occurred in
>> the basin since 2013..."
>>
>> "Does the Bakken Formation contain more oil than Saudi Arabia?"
>> <https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/does-bakken-formation-contain-more-oil-saudi-arabia>
>> "Probably not. In 2000, the USGS assessed undiscovered, technically
>> recoverable oil and gas in Saudi Arabia at 87 billion barrels (USGS
>> 2000 World Petroleum Assessment ) compared to a mean estimate of
>> undiscovered, technically recoverable oil in the Bakken formation of
>> 4.3 billion barrels."
>>
>> "What are some of the difficulties of drilling in the Bakken
>> Formation?"
>> <https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/what-are-some-difficulties-drilling-bakken-formation>
>> "...Bakken Formation is a relatively tight formation with low porosity
>> and low permeability rock, from which oil flows with difficulty. To
>> overcome this problem, wells in the Bakken Formation use a method
>> called hydraulic fracturing (aka fracking)..."
>>
>> More on Bakken from USGS:
>> <https://www.usgs.gov/search?keywords=Oil%20and%20Gas%20-%20Bakken%20Formation>
>
> I've not reviewed the details of the Bakkwn field but even a casual
> look shows that costs in the Bakkwn field are considerably higher then
> in other countries. Using generally accepted figures the cost of
> extraction is about $8.89/bbl in places like Saudi Arabia, while in
> general "Shale Oil", which the Bakkwn field is, is in the neighborhood
> of US$23.35.
>
> A oil companies, just like other businesses, can count. Shale Oil
> drilling and production is viable only when oil sells for high prices.
>
> Another point is that "Fraking" has been blamed for causing earth
> quakes and yes, there is evidence, or at least the USGS states that
> "The largest earthquake known to be induced by hydraulic fracturing in
> the United States was a magnitude 4.0 earthquake that occurred in 2018
> in Texas."
>

You make a good point.
We discussed this previously. The delivered price where
consumers pay for the product also matters, even where the
transporter adds some healthy margin to the wellhead price.

Delivering Pennsylvania or Ohio gas to industry in
Pittsburgh is a different cost structure from Russian gas to
heat Boston!

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:04:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 11:30:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>wrote:
>
>> More on Bakken from USGS:
>> <https://www.usgs.gov/search?keywords=Oil%20and%20Gas%20-%20Bakken%20Formation>
>
>Looks like they drilled but were not thrilled:
>
>"The Bakken Boom Goes Bust With No Money to Clean up the Mess" (Aug 8,
>2020):
><https://www.desmog.com/2020/08/08/bakken-fracking-oil-boom-bust-hess-cleanup/>
>
>"More than a decade ago, fracking took off in the Bakken shale of
>North Dakota and Montana, but the oil rush that followed has resulted
>in major environmental damage, risky oil transportation without
>regulation, pipeline permitting issues, and failure to produce
>profits."
>
>"More than a decade after the Bakken boom started, North Dakota was
>flaring 23 percent of the gas produced via fracking - making a mockery
>of the state’s flaring regulations."
>

Well, I read the referenced site and there is a certain amount of
"Bull shit" there (to be politically correct should I have written
"Bull S--t?). For example, "North Dakota was flaring 23 percent of the
gas produced via fracking" but "fracking" doesn't produce more or less
gas. As "gas" is associated with the reservoir, not the means to
extract it. As for the States flaring regulations, all I can say is if
you do not enforce your regulations then you deserve all that you get.

>"Another major blindspot for the industry and regulators has been the
>radioactive waste produced during fracking."

Ah yes, then we have "the radioactive waste produced during fracking"?
Well, yes and no. The radioactive elements are in the earth and if you
drill a hole then likely what comes out will be radioactive to some
extent.

Amazingly, one might say, if you drill into a formation and then pump
in thousands of gallons of water you will wash out a certain amount of
dust, grit, whatever. And everyone in the drilling business knows
this. It would be extremely unlikely that a oil company geologist
didn't know this. And if this formation is radioactive then certainly
that dust, grit, whatever will be radioactive. At least to some
degree. But then, so would any oil produced from that formation.

>"The state recently decided to use $66 million in federal funds
>designated for coronavirus relief to begin cleaning up wells the oil
>industry has abandoned - costs that the industry should be covering,
>according to the law, but that are now shifted to the public."

I would point out that "way back when" I worked on a project in
Kalamantan Indonesia where they were drilling with chemicals added to
the "mud". The "mud pits had to be lined with plastic to prevent any
nasty chemicals leaching into the earth. Way out there in the jungles,
in a developing nation? And in a modern, highly progressive, country
y'all have the same problems?

>
>"All of the evidence strongly suggest that the Bakken is an oil field
>on the decline."
>
>Tom: Notice that I'm including the source of my info and the date of
>publication. The date is important so that you don't accidentally
>post ancient and out of date stories, numbers, and rants. If you find
>it necessary to hide your sources at least provide the date of
>publication.
>
>[ About 30 minutes wasted cleaning up after Tom's toxic misinformation
>spill. ]
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 3/13/2022 6:53 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 11:30:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 09:43:25 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Here are the official estimates:
>>> 8 times as much oil as Saudi Arabia
>>
>> You might want to use a more up to date source.
>>
>> "The USGS has completed an oil and gas estimate for the Bakken and
>> Three Forks Formations in the Williston Basin of Montana and North
>> Dakota."
>> <https://www.usgs.gov/news/national-news-release/usgs-releases-oil-and-gas-assessment-bakken-and-three-forks-formations>
>> "A substantial amount of drilling (over 11,000 wells) has occurred in
>> the basin since 2013..."
>>
>> "Does the Bakken Formation contain more oil than Saudi Arabia?"
>> <https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/does-bakken-formation-contain-more-oil-saudi-arabia>
>> "Probably not. In 2000, the USGS assessed undiscovered, technically
>> recoverable oil and gas in Saudi Arabia at 87 billion barrels (USGS
>> 2000 World Petroleum Assessment ) compared to a mean estimate of
>> undiscovered, technically recoverable oil in the Bakken formation of
>> 4.3 billion barrels."
>>
>> "What are some of the difficulties of drilling in the Bakken
>> Formation?"
>> <https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/what-are-some-difficulties-drilling-bakken-formation>
>> "...Bakken Formation is a relatively tight formation with low porosity
>> and low permeability rock, from which oil flows with difficulty. To
>> overcome this problem, wells in the Bakken Formation use a method
>> called hydraulic fracturing (aka fracking)..."
>>
>> More on Bakken from USGS:
>> <https://www.usgs.gov/search?keywords=Oil%20and%20Gas%20-%20Bakken%20Formation>
>
> I've not reviewed the details of the Bakkwn field but even a casual
> look shows that costs in the Bakkwn field are considerably higher then
> in other countries. Using generally accepted figures the cost of
> extraction is about $8.89/bbl in places like Saudi Arabia, while in
> general "Shale Oil", which the Bakkwn field is, is in the neighborhood
> of US$23.35.
>
> A oil companies, just like other businesses, can count. Shale Oil
> drilling and production is viable only when oil sells for high prices.
>
> Another point is that "Fraking" has been blamed for causing earth
> quakes and yes, there is evidence, or at least the USGS states that
> "The largest earthquake known to be induced by hydraulic fracturing in
> the United States was a magnitude 4.0 earthquake that occurred in 2018
> in Texas."

I can offer anecdotes that tend to confirm some of that. Within about
ten miles of me, a very good friend and former student has a large piece
of property. Years ago, at the peak of fracking interest, he signed a
contract for a well pad on his land. It sounded great to him: a large up
front check for allowing the installation, then a promise of a take on
the extracted gas and oil.

Well, they installed the pad, which was far more disruptive than my
friend had been led to believe. At least in his case, it was a very
noisy construction job done round the clock. But they did clean up the
site nicely. All he needed was for them to begin the actual fracking and
pumping so he could rake in the bucks.

He's still waiting. I guess he's gotten a dribble of cash. But for
whatever the (economic) reason, they've just never produced much of
anything from wells on his property. Maybe they finally will now that
oil prices have jumped.

And about the earthquakes: Yep, we had one. Christmas Eve 2011, the web
has reminded me. But to be technical, it wasn't triggered by fracking.
It was apparently triggered by an injection well - a deep well that's
used as a disposal reservoir for, mostly, the effluent from fracking
operations.

Having said all that: I'm in favor of fracking, properly done. Natural
gas is far less problematic than the coal that it's replacing. But I
think we do need to move to non-carbon sources to the greatest degree we
can.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 19:54:05 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 3/13/2022 5:53 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 11:30:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 09:43:25 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here are the official estimates:
>>>> 8 times as much oil as Saudi Arabia
>>>
>>> You might want to use a more up to date source.
>>>
>>> "The USGS has completed an oil and gas estimate for the Bakken and
>>> Three Forks Formations in the Williston Basin of Montana and North
>>> Dakota."
>>> <https://www.usgs.gov/news/national-news-release/usgs-releases-oil-and-gas-assessment-bakken-and-three-forks-formations>
>>> "A substantial amount of drilling (over 11,000 wells) has occurred in
>>> the basin since 2013..."
>>>
>>> "Does the Bakken Formation contain more oil than Saudi Arabia?"
>>> <https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/does-bakken-formation-contain-more-oil-saudi-arabia>
>>> "Probably not. In 2000, the USGS assessed undiscovered, technically
>>> recoverable oil and gas in Saudi Arabia at 87 billion barrels (USGS
>>> 2000 World Petroleum Assessment ) compared to a mean estimate of
>>> undiscovered, technically recoverable oil in the Bakken formation of
>>> 4.3 billion barrels."
>>>
>>> "What are some of the difficulties of drilling in the Bakken
>>> Formation?"
>>> <https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/what-are-some-difficulties-drilling-bakken-formation>
>>> "...Bakken Formation is a relatively tight formation with low porosity
>>> and low permeability rock, from which oil flows with difficulty. To
>>> overcome this problem, wells in the Bakken Formation use a method
>>> called hydraulic fracturing (aka fracking)..."
>>>
>>> More on Bakken from USGS:
>>> <https://www.usgs.gov/search?keywords=Oil%20and%20Gas%20-%20Bakken%20Formation>
>>
>> I've not reviewed the details of the Bakkwn field but even a casual
>> look shows that costs in the Bakkwn field are considerably higher then
>> in other countries. Using generally accepted figures the cost of
>> extraction is about $8.89/bbl in places like Saudi Arabia, while in
>> general "Shale Oil", which the Bakkwn field is, is in the neighborhood
>> of US$23.35.
>>
>> A oil companies, just like other businesses, can count. Shale Oil
>> drilling and production is viable only when oil sells for high prices.
>>
>> Another point is that "Fraking" has been blamed for causing earth
>> quakes and yes, there is evidence, or at least the USGS states that
>> "The largest earthquake known to be induced by hydraulic fracturing in
>> the United States was a magnitude 4.0 earthquake that occurred in 2018
>> in Texas."
>>
>
>You make a good point.
>We discussed this previously. The delivered price where
>consumers pay for the product also matters, even where the
>transporter adds some healthy margin to the wellhead price.
>
>Delivering Pennsylvania or Ohio gas to industry in
>Pittsburgh is a different cost structure from Russian gas to
>heat Boston!

Certainly true. I think I mentioned a Drilling Manager telling me that
in remote Irian Jaya it took about 1,000 BBL/day to make a well
financially successful. Due, largely to transportation costs.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 22:06:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 3/13/2022 6:53 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 11:30:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 09:43:25 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here are the official estimates:
>>>> 8 times as much oil as Saudi Arabia
>>>
>>> You might want to use a more up to date source.
>>>
>>> "The USGS has completed an oil and gas estimate for the Bakken and
>>> Three Forks Formations in the Williston Basin of Montana and North
>>> Dakota."
>>> <https://www.usgs.gov/news/national-news-release/usgs-releases-oil-and-gas-assessment-bakken-and-three-forks-formations>
>>> "A substantial amount of drilling (over 11,000 wells) has occurred in
>>> the basin since 2013..."
>>>
>>> "Does the Bakken Formation contain more oil than Saudi Arabia?"
>>> <https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/does-bakken-formation-contain-more-oil-saudi-arabia>
>>> "Probably not. In 2000, the USGS assessed undiscovered, technically
>>> recoverable oil and gas in Saudi Arabia at 87 billion barrels (USGS
>>> 2000 World Petroleum Assessment ) compared to a mean estimate of
>>> undiscovered, technically recoverable oil in the Bakken formation of
>>> 4.3 billion barrels."
>>>
>>> "What are some of the difficulties of drilling in the Bakken
>>> Formation?"
>>> <https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/what-are-some-difficulties-drilling-bakken-formation>
>>> "...Bakken Formation is a relatively tight formation with low porosity
>>> and low permeability rock, from which oil flows with difficulty. To
>>> overcome this problem, wells in the Bakken Formation use a method
>>> called hydraulic fracturing (aka fracking)..."
>>>
>>> More on Bakken from USGS:
>>> <https://www.usgs.gov/search?keywords=Oil%20and%20Gas%20-%20Bakken%20Formation>
>>
>> I've not reviewed the details of the Bakkwn field but even a casual
>> look shows that costs in the Bakkwn field are considerably higher then
>> in other countries. Using generally accepted figures the cost of
>> extraction is about $8.89/bbl in places like Saudi Arabia, while in
>> general "Shale Oil", which the Bakkwn field is, is in the neighborhood
>> of US$23.35.
>>
>> A oil companies, just like other businesses, can count. Shale Oil
>> drilling and production is viable only when oil sells for high prices.
>>
>> Another point is that "Fraking" has been blamed for causing earth
>> quakes and yes, there is evidence, or at least the USGS states that
>> "The largest earthquake known to be induced by hydraulic fracturing in
>> the United States was a magnitude 4.0 earthquake that occurred in 2018
>> in Texas."
>
>I can offer anecdotes that tend to confirm some of that. Within about
>ten miles of me, a very good friend and former student has a large piece
>of property. Years ago, at the peak of fracking interest, he signed a
>contract for a well pad on his land. It sounded great to him: a large up
>front check for allowing the installation, then a promise of a take on
>the extracted gas and oil.
>
>Well, they installed the pad, which was far more disruptive than my
>friend had been led to believe. At least in his case, it was a very
>noisy construction job done round the clock. But they did clean up the
>site nicely. All he needed was for them to begin the actual fracking and
>pumping so he could rake in the bucks.
>
>He's still waiting. I guess he's gotten a dribble of cash. But for
>whatever the (economic) reason, they've just never produced much of
>anything from wells on his property. Maybe they finally will now that
>oil prices have jumped.
>
>And about the earthquakes: Yep, we had one. Christmas Eve 2011, the web
>has reminded me. But to be technical, it wasn't triggered by fracking.
>It was apparently triggered by an injection well - a deep well that's
>used as a disposal reservoir for, mostly, the effluent from fracking
>operations.
>
>Having said all that: I'm in favor of fracking, properly done. Natural
>gas is far less problematic than the coal that it's replacing. But I
>think we do need to move to non-carbon sources to the greatest degree we
>can.

I'm not into well leases but as a general statement the lease usually
sets out in detail exactly what the "leasor" will get. Normally in
extreme detail.

Re earth quakes. there seems to be a lot of pro and con about that. I
believe it is forbidden in some countries and certainly there seems to
be proof that fracking can/may cause earthquakes.

And it is extremely expensive in comparison to conventional well
drilling, but then, so are off-shore wells.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 5:48:10 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/13/2022 4:04 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 11:30:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> More on Bakken from USGS:
> >> <https://www.usgs.gov/search?keywords=Oil%20and%20Gas%20-%20Bakken%20Formation>
> >
> > Looks like they drilled but were not thrilled:
> >
> > "The Bakken Boom Goes Bust With No Money to Clean up the Mess" (Aug 8,
> > 2020):
> > <https://www.desmog.com/2020/08/08/bakken-fracking-oil-boom-bust-hess-cleanup/>
> >
> > "More than a decade ago, fracking took off in the Bakken shale of
> > North Dakota and Montana, but the oil rush that followed has resulted
> > in major environmental damage, risky oil transportation without
> > regulation, pipeline permitting issues, and failure to produce
> > profits."
> >
> > "More than a decade after the Bakken boom started, North Dakota was
> > flaring 23 percent of the gas produced via fracking - making a mockery
> > of the state’s flaring regulations."
> >
> > "Another major blindspot for the industry and regulators has been the
> > radioactive waste produced during fracking."
> >
> > "The state recently decided to use $66 million in federal funds
> > designated for coronavirus relief to begin cleaning up wells the oil
> > industry has abandoned - costs that the industry should be covering,
> > according to the law, but that are now shifted to the public."
> >
> > "All of the evidence strongly suggest that the Bakken is an oil field
> > on the decline."
> >
> > Tom: Notice that I'm including the source of my info and the date of
> > publication. The date is important so that you don't accidentally
> > post ancient and out of date stories, numbers, and rants. If you find
> > it necessary to hide your sources at least provide the date of
> > publication.
> >
> > [ About 30 minutes wasted cleaning up after Tom's toxic misinformation
> > spill. ]
> >
> in re ND flaring: The profusion of small operations over a
> large area and the religious fervor against pipelines made
> gas transport very difficult as compared to, say, Permian in
> Texas:
> https://pgjonline.com/news/2017/01/navigator-energy-services-expands-bsg-system-begins-open-season
>
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dgyj361V4AEw67S.jpg:large

People who do not fix broken sewer lines in front of their own homes flock to North Dakota to protest a perfectly safe oil pipeline. Lieberman who is a cripple and relies entirely on Google for his knowledge of the outside world, wants to tell us everything there is to know about a pipeline a thousands miles away and which he knows nothing about.

On 3/14/2022 10:37 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 5:48:10 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 3/13/2022 4:04 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 11:30:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> More on Bakken from USGS:
>>>> <https://www.usgs.gov/search?keywords=Oil%20and%20Gas%20-%20Bakken%20Formation>
>>>
>>> Looks like they drilled but were not thrilled:
>>>
>>> "The Bakken Boom Goes Bust With No Money to Clean up the Mess" (Aug 8,
>>> 2020):
>>> <https://www.desmog.com/2020/08/08/bakken-fracking-oil-boom-bust-hess-cleanup/>
>>>
>>> "More than a decade ago, fracking took off in the Bakken shale of
>>> North Dakota and Montana, but the oil rush that followed has resulted
>>> in major environmental damage, risky oil transportation without
>>> regulation, pipeline permitting issues, and failure to produce
>>> profits."
>>>
>>> "More than a decade after the Bakken boom started, North Dakota was
>>> flaring 23 percent of the gas produced via fracking - making a mockery
>>> of the state’s flaring regulations."
>>>
>>> "Another major blindspot for the industry and regulators has been the
>>> radioactive waste produced during fracking."
>>>
>>> "The state recently decided to use $66 million in federal funds
>>> designated for coronavirus relief to begin cleaning up wells the oil
>>> industry has abandoned - costs that the industry should be covering,
>>> according to the law, but that are now shifted to the public."
>>>
>>> "All of the evidence strongly suggest that the Bakken is an oil field
>>> on the decline."
>>>
>>> Tom: Notice that I'm including the source of my info and the date of
>>> publication. The date is important so that you don't accidentally
>>> post ancient and out of date stories, numbers, and rants. If you find
>>> it necessary to hide your sources at least provide the date of
>>> publication.
>>>
>>> [ About 30 minutes wasted cleaning up after Tom's toxic misinformation
>>> spill. ]
>>>
>> in re ND flaring: The profusion of small operations over a
>> large area and the religious fervor against pipelines made
>> gas transport very difficult as compared to, say, Permian in
>> Texas:
>> https://pgjonline.com/news/2017/01/navigator-energy-services-expands-bsg-system-begins-open-season
>>
>> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dgyj361V4AEw67S.jpg:large
>
> People who do not fix broken sewer lines in front of their own homes flock to North Dakota to protest a perfectly safe oil pipeline. Lieberman who is a cripple and relies entirely on Google for his knowledge of the outside world, wants to tell us everything there is to know about a pipeline a thousands miles away and which he knows nothing about.
>

WTF?

People may dither on all sorts of policy decisions from
pipelines to bridge repairs but a broken sewer line gets
fixed immediately if not sooner! Everywhere. Every time.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971