Today I got a call from a parishioner asking about fixing his wheel because a spoke broke. It is an 8 spd town type bike for getting around. Weighs a ton but rides fine and works. He said he took the back wheel in to the LBS and they said well you just need a new rear wheel we can for maybe like $200. So then he thought well I call the deacon he knows bikes and works on them.

Well he brought it over and typical 40 cc rear wheel with one broken drive side spoke. The cassette sits on then the last small cog that threads on to keep the cassette on. It takes 2 chain whips to remove the cassette. So my first things was glad I did not need to by a new tool I have not worked with freewheels much lately.

The plastic disk and the hub itself was going to make threading the spoke through very hard. I don't how they build it seems not enough room. The dork disk was the biggest pain I have to cut it off would not just pop off was behind the hub spline the cassettes stacked on.

Then sure enough I had a spare spoke of the correct length. However the only way I could get it to thread through the flange was to bend in almost 45 degrees. I could not figure how to remove the large holder for the cassette.. FInally I straighten the spoke back up and trued up the wheel. Actually it was pretty good for a bike that is 20 years old the wheel trued ok the tension across are acceptably even enough.

Then I fit the wheel back on the bike and had to actually make one turn of the rear derailleur limit screw so that the chain could not fall into the spokes. In the end in about 90 minutes including adjusting the shifting and putting the wheel back, the bike is fine. It is not need a new wheel at all..

My question is if the local bike shop just did not want to do what I did? The hardest part was not replacing the spoke or even truing the wheel. That took the most brains but horsing around the heavy bike and then adjusting the brakes and shifting was more trouble. I assume these bike shops just want things easier from labor standpoint? I have no clue. Granted I am not the fastest mechanic but it is just work and time.
Deacon Mark

On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 5:52:30 PM UTC-5, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> My question is if the local bike shop just did not want to do what I did? The hardest part was not replacing the spoke or even truing the wheel. That took the most brains but horsing around the heavy bike and then adjusting the brakes and shifting was more trouble. I assume these bike shops just want things easier from labor standpoint? I have no clue. Granted I am not the fastest mechanic but it is just work and time.
> Deacon Mark

Deacon, you talked about technical bike matters. Replacing a spoke. Is that allowed on this forum?

My guess, guess, guess, is that modern, recent, new bike shops do not do much with old style spoke wheels. Everything is the new built in the factory wheels. So they do not have an inventory of spokes on hand. And don't have a spoke threader to make a one off spoke. And it would be a lot of work, time, hassle, to order/find one spoke for the job. So no thanks. And/or, maybe they don't even have any mechanics on staff that know how to work on wheels and freewheels and spokes. Hopefully that is not the case. But wheel building is a skill you learn by doing. And if no one buys or fixes normal wheels, then you get no experience. Or there is only one guy in the shop who is the old time wheel builder and trying to get this on his schedule is too difficult. Other thing is they could not charge you or anyone the right amount to fix the wheel. It takes 30 minutes to replace a spoke and retrue the wheel. Or maybe more time. Simple job sort of. But if their overhead is $50 an hour or something, then they have to charge you $30-40-50 or so to replace one spoke. Replacing one spoke seems real simple and small job to a bike rider. There is the risk that they would offend you so much for even quoting the price to you. So for their business purposes it is best to refuse that work and not make people hate them, as much.

On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 6:13:01 PM UTC-5, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 5:52:30 PM UTC-5, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > My question is if the local bike shop just did not want to do what I did? The hardest part was not replacing the spoke or even truing the wheel. That took the most brains but horsing around the heavy bike and then adjusting the brakes and shifting was more trouble. I assume these bike shops just want things easier from labor standpoint? I have no clue. Granted I am not the fastest mechanic but it is just work and time.
> > Deacon Mark
> Deacon, you talked about technical bike matters. Replacing a spoke. Is that allowed on this forum?
>
> My guess, guess, guess, is that modern, recent, new bike shops do not do much with old style spoke wheels. Everything is the new built in the factory wheels. So they do not have an inventory of spokes on hand. And don't have a spoke threader to make a one off spoke. And it would be a lot of work, time, hassle, to order/find one spoke for the job. So no thanks. And/or, maybe they don't even have any mechanics on staff that know how to work on wheels and freewheels and spokes. Hopefully that is not the case. But wheel building is a skill you learn by doing. And if no one buys or fixes normal wheels, then you get no experience. Or there is only one guy in the shop who is the old time wheel builder and trying to get this on his schedule is too difficult. Other thing is they could not charge you or anyone the right amount to fix the wheel. It takes 30 minutes to replace a spoke and retrue the wheel. Or maybe more time. Simple job sort of. But if their overhead is $50 an hour or something, then they have to charge you $30-40-50 or so to replace one spoke. Replacing one spoke seems real simple and small job to a bike rider. There is the risk that they would offend you so much for even quoting the price to you. So for their business purposes it is best to refuse that work and not make people hate them, as much.

Analogy time. Forgot to add this in my prior post. Your broken spoke may be similar to carburetors on cars. Old cars. Everything is fuel injection now and has been for 30 years or so. I suspect if you took a carburetor into many car mechanic shops, they might not be able to provide service because they do not have that experience anymore. And their electronic computers cannot hook up to the engine and tell them what is wrong.

On 6/28/2022 5:52 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> Today I got a call from a parishioner asking about fixing his wheel because a spoke broke. It is an 8 spd town type bike for getting around. Weighs a ton but rides fine and works. He said he took the back wheel in to the LBS and they said well you just need a new rear wheel we can for maybe like $200. So then he thought well I call the deacon he knows bikes and works on them.
>
> Well he brought it over and typical 40 cc rear wheel with one broken drive side spoke. The cassette sits on then the last small cog that threads on to keep the cassette on. It takes 2 chain whips to remove the cassette. So my first things was glad I did not need to by a new tool I have not worked with freewheels much lately.
>
> The plastic disk and the hub itself was going to make threading the spoke through very hard. I don't how they build it seems not enough room. The dork disk was the biggest pain I have to cut it off would not just pop off was behind the hub spline the cassettes stacked on.
>
> Then sure enough I had a spare spoke of the correct length. However the only way I could get it to thread through the flange was to bend in almost 45 degrees. I could not figure how to remove the large holder for the cassette. FInally I straighten the spoke back up and trued up the wheel. Actually it was pretty good for a bike that is 20 years old the wheel trued ok the tension across are acceptably even enough.
>
> Then I fit the wheel back on the bike and had to actually make one turn of the rear derailleur limit screw so that the chain could not fall into the spokes. In the end in about 90 minutes including adjusting the shifting and putting the wheel back, the bike is fine. It is not need a new wheel at all.
>
> My question is if the local bike shop just did not want to do what I did? The hardest part was not replacing the spoke or even truing the wheel. That took the most brains but horsing around the heavy bike and then adjusting the brakes and shifting was more trouble. I assume these bike shops just want things easier from labor standpoint? I have no clue. Granted I am not the fastest mechanic but it is just work and time.
> Deacon Mark
>

Good for you, he's lucky to know you.

A basic 700-wide freewheel wheel should be more like $80~100
this year (up from $70 last year) plus maybe $20 to change
the tire & freewheel, lube/adjust hub bearing etc. #200 is
high for that job.

I'm impressed at your perseverance but if you're going to
make a habit of servicing cheaper bikes, get a freewheel
remover.:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/fw_vs_cs.jpg

The tool looks much like a Shimano type cassette remover but
the splines are different. If you get a choice, buy the
longer one with deeper reach, $10~#15.

Yes, plastic pieplates suck. Trouble is, if you remove it
the rider will manage to get his rear derailleur into the
spokes and it will be blamed on yo. They go into spokes
anyway when they're bashed/bent but once you touch it, it's
on you. They're cheap, not always easy to snap in place even
when new and 32h discs don't fit 36h wheels.

Where you need to wiggle a spoke into a tight position, keep
the curves as gentle as possible. They straighten out
readily in one's fingers before screwing on the nipple and
once tensioned they're fine. Try not to kink a spoke.

As for shop policy and practice, your average wrench today
wouldn't have done that job any faster than you. At $100 per
hour plus parts. Which is why I spend a _lot_ of drive time
recently back and forth to repair daughter's bike in Chicago.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 16:12:57 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 5:52:30 PM UTC-5, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> My question is if the local bike shop just did not want to do what I did? The hardest part was not replacing the spoke or even truing the wheel. That took the most brains but horsing around the heavy bike and then adjusting the brakes and shifting was more trouble. I assume these bike shops just want things easier from labor standpoint? I have no clue. Granted I am not the fastest mechanic but it is just work and time.
>> Deacon Mark
>
>Deacon, you talked about technical bike matters. Replacing a spoke. Is that allowed on this forum?
>
>My guess, guess, guess, is that modern, recent, new bike shops do not do much with old style spoke wheels. Everything is the new built in the factory wheels. So they do not have an inventory of spokes on hand. And don't have a spoke threader to make a one off spoke. And it would be a lot of work, time, hassle, to order/find one spoke for the job. So no thanks. And/or, maybe they don't even have any mechanics on staff that know how to work on wheels and freewheels and spokes. Hopefully that is not the case. But wheel building is a skill you learn by doing. And if no one buys or fixes normal wheels, then you get no experience. Or there is only one guy in the shop who is the old time wheel builder and trying to get this on his schedule is too difficult. Other thing is they could not charge you or anyone the right amount to fix the wheel. It takes 30 minutes to replace a spoke and retrue the wheel. Or maybe more time. Simple job sort of. But if their overhead is $50 an
>hour or something, then they have to charge you $30-40-50 or so to replace one spoke. Replacing one spoke seems real simple and small job to a bike rider. There is the risk that they would offend you so much for even quoting the price to you. So for their business purposes it is best to refuse that work and not make people hate them, as much.

Years ago I got interested in wheel building and as spokes weren't
available at my local bike shop I went to the largest importer of bike
"stuff" in Bangkok and enquired about spokes and was told, We don't
stock them as there is no demand? Probably 20 - 25 years ago.

As an aside, I popped a spoke in one of my super-dooper home made
wheels and as that caused the rim to go out of true and wobble and as
I didn't have the right length spoke to replace it I bought, a pair of
the cheapest Shimano factory made wheels in the shop as a temporary
solution... they are still on the bike and still running true some ten
years later (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 15:52:27 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
<deaconmjc08@gmail.com> wrote:

>Today I got a call from a parishioner asking about fixing his wheel because a spoke broke. It is an 8 spd town type bike for getting around. Weighs a ton but rides fine and works. He said he took the back wheel in to the LBS and they said well you just need a new rear wheel we can for maybe like $200. So then he thought well I call the deacon he knows bikes and works on them.
>
>Well he brought it over and typical 40 cc rear wheel with one broken drive side spoke. The cassette sits on then the last small cog that threads on to keep the cassette on. It takes 2 chain whips to remove the cassette. So my first things was glad I did not need to by a new tool I have not worked with freewheels much lately.
>
>The plastic disk and the hub itself was going to make threading the spoke through very hard. I don't how they build it seems not enough room. The dork disk was the biggest pain I have to cut it off would not just pop off was behind the hub spline the cassettes stacked on.
>
>Then sure enough I had a spare spoke of the correct length. However the only way I could get it to thread through the flange was to bend in almost 45 degrees. I could not figure how to remove the large holder for the cassette. FInally I straighten the spoke back up and trued up the wheel. Actually it was pretty good for a bike that is 20 years old the wheel trued ok the tension across are acceptably even enough.
>
>Then I fit the wheel back on the bike and had to actually make one turn of the rear derailleur limit screw so that the chain could not fall into the spokes. In the end in about 90 minutes including adjusting the shifting and putting the wheel back, the bike is fine. It is not need a new wheel at all.
>
>My question is if the local bike shop just did not want to do what I did? The hardest part was not replacing the spoke or even truing the wheel. That took the most brains but horsing around the heavy bike and then adjusting the brakes and shifting was more trouble. I assume these bike shops just want things easier from labor standpoint? I have no clue. Granted I am not the fastest mechanic but it is just work and time.
>Deacon Mark

I would suppose, assuming a minimum salary of $15/hour that a bike
shop would want to be billing, maybe, $25/hour just to make ends meet
and thus probably can't afford to be fooling about with a, maybe 3 - 4
hour job.... well unless they can charge you $100 for doing it.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 16:15:38 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 6:13:01 PM UTC-5, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 5:52:30 PM UTC-5, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> > My question is if the local bike shop just did not want to do what I did? The hardest part was not replacing the spoke or even truing the wheel. That took the most brains but horsing around the heavy bike and then adjusting the brakes and shifting was more trouble. I assume these bike shops just want things easier from labor standpoint? I have no clue. Granted I am not the fastest mechanic but it is just work and time.
>> > Deacon Mark
>> Deacon, you talked about technical bike matters. Replacing a spoke. Is that allowed on this forum?
>>
>> My guess, guess, guess, is that modern, recent, new bike shops do not do much with old style spoke wheels. Everything is the new built in the factory wheels. So they do not have an inventory of spokes on hand. And don't have a spoke threader to make a one off spoke. And it would be a lot of work, time, hassle, to order/find one spoke for the job. So no thanks. And/or, maybe they don't even have any mechanics on staff that know how to work on wheels and freewheels and spokes. Hopefully that is not the case. But wheel building is a skill you learn by doing. And if no one buys or fixes normal wheels, then you get no experience. Or there is only one guy in the shop who is the old time wheel builder and trying to get this on his schedule is too difficult. Other thing is they could not charge you or anyone the right amount to fix the wheel. It takes 30 minutes to replace a spoke and retrue the wheel. Or maybe more time. Simple job sort of. But if their overhead is $50 an hour or
>something, then they have to charge you $30-40-50 or so to replace one spoke. Replacing one spoke seems real simple and small job to a bike rider. There is the risk that they would offend you so much for even quoting the price to you. So for their business purposes it is best to refuse that work and not make people hate them, as much.
>
>
>Analogy time. Forgot to add this in my prior post. Your broken spoke may be similar to carburetors on cars. Old cars. Everything is fuel injection now and has been for 30 years or so. I suspect if you took a carburetor into many car mechanic shops, they might not be able to provide service because they do not have that experience anymore. And their electronic computers cannot hook up to the engine and tell them what is wrong.

A bloke on another site has been rebuilding a V-8 engine and when it
got to installing the carburetor found that even parts for the things
are difficult to find (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 6/28/2022 6:15 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 6:13:01 PM UTC-5, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 5:52:30 PM UTC-5, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> My question is if the local bike shop just did not want to do what I did? The hardest part was not replacing the spoke or even truing the wheel. That took the most brains but horsing around the heavy bike and then adjusting the brakes and shifting was more trouble. I assume these bike shops just want things easier from labor standpoint? I have no clue. Granted I am not the fastest mechanic but it is just work and time.
>>> Deacon Mark
>> Deacon, you talked about technical bike matters. Replacing a spoke. Is that allowed on this forum?
>>
>> My guess, guess, guess, is that modern, recent, new bike shops do not do much with old style spoke wheels. Everything is the new built in the factory wheels. So they do not have an inventory of spokes on hand. And don't have a spoke threader to make a one off spoke. And it would be a lot of work, time, hassle, to order/find one spoke for the job. So no thanks. And/or, maybe they don't even have any mechanics on staff that know how to work on wheels and freewheels and spokes. Hopefully that is not the case. But wheel building is a skill you learn by doing. And if no one buys or fixes normal wheels, then you get no experience. Or there is only one guy in the shop who is the old time wheel builder and trying to get this on his schedule is too difficult. Other thing is they could not charge you or anyone the right amount to fix the wheel. It takes 30 minutes to replace a spoke and retrue the wheel. Or maybe more time. Simple job sort of. But if their overhead is $50 an hour or someth
ing, then they have to charge you $30-40-50 or so to replace one spoke. Replacing one spoke seems real simple and small job to a bike rider. There is the risk that they would offend you so much for even quoting the price to you. So for their business purposes it is best to refuse that work and not make people hate them, as much.
>
>
> Analogy time. Forgot to add this in my prior post. Your broken spoke may be similar to carburetors on cars. Old cars. Everything is fuel injection now and has been for 30 years or so. I suspect if you took a carburetor into many car mechanic shops, they might not be able to provide service because they do not have that experience anymore. And their electronic computers cannot hook up to the engine and tell them what is wrong.
>

+1
And good luck finding a carb rebuild kit (which were once
standard cheap items at every auto parts store). Modern
rebuild kits commonly cover 87 models (one SKU!), often lack
critical parts while including multiple copies of parts you
don't need and cost a fortune.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/28/2022 7:16 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 15:52:27 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
> <deaconmjc08@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Today I got a call from a parishioner asking about fixing his wheel because a spoke broke. It is an 8 spd town type bike for getting around. Weighs a ton but rides fine and works. He said he took the back wheel in to the LBS and they said well you just need a new rear wheel we can for maybe like $200. So then he thought well I call the deacon he knows bikes and works on them.
>>
>> Well he brought it over and typical 40 cc rear wheel with one broken drive side spoke. The cassette sits on then the last small cog that threads on to keep the cassette on. It takes 2 chain whips to remove the cassette. So my first things was glad I did not need to by a new tool I have not worked with freewheels much lately.
>>
>> The plastic disk and the hub itself was going to make threading the spoke through very hard. I don't how they build it seems not enough room. The dork disk was the biggest pain I have to cut it off would not just pop off was behind the hub spline the cassettes stacked on.
>>
>> Then sure enough I had a spare spoke of the correct length. However the only way I could get it to thread through the flange was to bend in almost 45 degrees. I could not figure how to remove the large holder for the cassette. FInally I straighten the spoke back up and trued up the wheel. Actually it was pretty good for a bike that is 20 years old the wheel trued ok the tension across are acceptably even enough.
>>
>> Then I fit the wheel back on the bike and had to actually make one turn of the rear derailleur limit screw so that the chain could not fall into the spokes. In the end in about 90 minutes including adjusting the shifting and putting the wheel back, the bike is fine. It is not need a new wheel at all.
>>
>> My question is if the local bike shop just did not want to do what I did? The hardest part was not replacing the spoke or even truing the wheel. That took the most brains but horsing around the heavy bike and then adjusting the brakes and shifting was more trouble. I assume these bike shops just want things easier from labor standpoint? I have no clue. Granted I am not the fastest mechanic but it is just work and time.
>> Deacon Mark
>
> I would suppose, assuming a minimum salary of $15/hour that a bike
> shop would want to be billing, maybe, $25/hour just to make ends meet
> and thus probably can't afford to be fooling about with a, maybe 3 - 4
> hour job.... well unless they can charge you $100 for doing it.
>

Ha. Ha. Ha.

With taxes, rent and insurance even small shops can't break
even at $25/hour.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 19:28:56 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 6/28/2022 7:16 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 15:52:27 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
>> <deaconmjc08@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Today I got a call from a parishioner asking about fixing his wheel because a spoke broke. It is an 8 spd town type bike for getting around. Weighs a ton but rides fine and works. He said he took the back wheel in to the LBS and they said well you just need a new rear wheel we can for maybe like $200. So then he thought well I call the deacon he knows bikes and works on them.
>>>
>>> Well he brought it over and typical 40 cc rear wheel with one broken drive side spoke. The cassette sits on then the last small cog that threads on to keep the cassette on. It takes 2 chain whips to remove the cassette. So my first things was glad I did not need to by a new tool I have not worked with freewheels much lately.
>>>
>>> The plastic disk and the hub itself was going to make threading the spoke through very hard. I don't how they build it seems not enough room. The dork disk was the biggest pain I have to cut it off would not just pop off was behind the hub spline the cassettes stacked on.
>>>
>>> Then sure enough I had a spare spoke of the correct length. However the only way I could get it to thread through the flange was to bend in almost 45 degrees. I could not figure how to remove the large holder for the cassette. FInally I straighten the spoke back up and trued up the wheel. Actually it was pretty good for a bike that is 20 years old the wheel trued ok the tension across are acceptably even enough.
>>>
>>> Then I fit the wheel back on the bike and had to actually make one turn of the rear derailleur limit screw so that the chain could not fall into the spokes. In the end in about 90 minutes including adjusting the shifting and putting the wheel back, the bike is fine. It is not need a new wheel at all.
>>>
>>> My question is if the local bike shop just did not want to do what I did? The hardest part was not replacing the spoke or even truing the wheel. That took the most brains but horsing around the heavy bike and then adjusting the brakes and shifting was more trouble. I assume these bike shops just want things easier from labor standpoint? I have no clue. Granted I am not the fastest mechanic but it is just work and time.
>>> Deacon Mark
>>
>> I would suppose, assuming a minimum salary of $15/hour that a bike
>> shop would want to be billing, maybe, $25/hour just to make ends meet
>> and thus probably can't afford to be fooling about with a, maybe 3 - 4
>> hour job.... well unless they can charge you $100 for doing it.
>>
>
>Ha. Ha. Ha.
>
>With taxes, rent and insurance even small shops can't break
>even at $25/hour.

Out of curiosity and not to stick my nose into your business but what
is your estimate on the minimum billing for, oh say, a $10/hour
salary?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 6/28/2022 7:33 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 19:28:56 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 6/28/2022 7:16 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 15:52:27 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
>>> <deaconmjc08@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Today I got a call from a parishioner asking about fixing his wheel because a spoke broke. It is an 8 spd town type bike for getting around. Weighs a ton but rides fine and works. He said he took the back wheel in to the LBS and they said well you just need a new rear wheel we can for maybe like $200. So then he thought well I call the deacon he knows bikes and works on them.
>>>>
>>>> Well he brought it over and typical 40 cc rear wheel with one broken drive side spoke. The cassette sits on then the last small cog that threads on to keep the cassette on. It takes 2 chain whips to remove the cassette. So my first things was glad I did not need to by a new tool I have not worked with freewheels much lately.
>>>>
>>>> The plastic disk and the hub itself was going to make threading the spoke through very hard. I don't how they build it seems not enough room. The dork disk was the biggest pain I have to cut it off would not just pop off was behind the hub spline the cassettes stacked on.
>>>>
>>>> Then sure enough I had a spare spoke of the correct length. However the only way I could get it to thread through the flange was to bend in almost 45 degrees. I could not figure how to remove the large holder for the cassette. FInally I straighten the spoke back up and trued up the wheel. Actually it was pretty good for a bike that is 20 years old the wheel trued ok the tension across are acceptably even enough.
>>>>
>>>> Then I fit the wheel back on the bike and had to actually make one turn of the rear derailleur limit screw so that the chain could not fall into the spokes. In the end in about 90 minutes including adjusting the shifting and putting the wheel back, the bike is fine. It is not need a new wheel at all.
>>>>
>>>> My question is if the local bike shop just did not want to do what I did? The hardest part was not replacing the spoke or even truing the wheel. That took the most brains but horsing around the heavy bike and then adjusting the brakes and shifting was more trouble. I assume these bike shops just want things easier from labor standpoint? I have no clue. Granted I am not the fastest mechanic but it is just work and time.
>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>
>>> I would suppose, assuming a minimum salary of $15/hour that a bike
>>> shop would want to be billing, maybe, $25/hour just to make ends meet
>>> and thus probably can't afford to be fooling about with a, maybe 3 - 4
>>> hour job.... well unless they can charge you $100 for doing it.
>>>
>>
>> Ha. Ha. Ha.
>>
>> With taxes, rent and insurance even small shops can't break
>> even at $25/hour.
>
> Out of curiosity and not to stick my nose into your business but what
> is your estimate on the minimum billing for, oh say, a $10/hour
> salary?
>

Base here is $18 and we bill open time at $80. Most jobs are
flat rated and we're pretty zippy at all the usual things.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 9:01:17 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/28/2022 7:33 PM, John B. wrote:
> > On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 19:28:56 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On 6/28/2022 7:16 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 15:52:27 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
> >>> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Today I got a call from a parishioner asking about fixing his wheel because a spoke broke. It is an 8 spd town type bike for getting around. Weighs a ton but rides fine and works. He said he took the back wheel in to the LBS and they said well you just need a new rear wheel we can for maybe like $200. So then he thought well I call the deacon he knows bikes and works on them.
> >>>>
> >>>> Well he brought it over and typical 40 cc rear wheel with one broken drive side spoke. The cassette sits on then the last small cog that threads on to keep the cassette on. It takes 2 chain whips to remove the cassette.. So my first things was glad I did not need to by a new tool I have not worked with freewheels much lately.
> >>>>
> >>>> The plastic disk and the hub itself was going to make threading the spoke through very hard. I don't how they build it seems not enough room. The dork disk was the biggest pain I have to cut it off would not just pop off was behind the hub spline the cassettes stacked on.
> >>>>
> >>>> Then sure enough I had a spare spoke of the correct length. However the only way I could get it to thread through the flange was to bend in almost 45 degrees. I could not figure how to remove the large holder for the cassette. FInally I straighten the spoke back up and trued up the wheel. Actually it was pretty good for a bike that is 20 years old the wheel trued ok the tension across are acceptably even enough.
> >>>>
> >>>> Then I fit the wheel back on the bike and had to actually make one turn of the rear derailleur limit screw so that the chain could not fall into the spokes. In the end in about 90 minutes including adjusting the shifting and putting the wheel back, the bike is fine. It is not need a new wheel at all.
> >>>>
> >>>> My question is if the local bike shop just did not want to do what I did? The hardest part was not replacing the spoke or even truing the wheel.. That took the most brains but horsing around the heavy bike and then adjusting the brakes and shifting was more trouble. I assume these bike shops just want things easier from labor standpoint? I have no clue. Granted I am not the fastest mechanic but it is just work and time.
> >>>> Deacon Mark
> >>>
> >>> I would suppose, assuming a minimum salary of $15/hour that a bike
> >>> shop would want to be billing, maybe, $25/hour just to make ends meet
> >>> and thus probably can't afford to be fooling about with a, maybe 3 - 4
> >>> hour job.... well unless they can charge you $100 for doing it.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Ha. Ha. Ha.
> >>
> >> With taxes, rent and insurance even small shops can't break
> >> even at $25/hour.
> >
> > Out of curiosity and not to stick my nose into your business but what
> > is your estimate on the minimum billing for, oh say, a $10/hour
> > salary?
> >
> Base here is $18 and we bill open time at $80. Most jobs are
> flat rated and we're pretty zippy at all the usual things.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
The minimum wage in Illinois is now $12 an hour. Right now most people can find almost any job for $15 and hour. Personally I repair guitars and to do that I have to get $35 per hour at least clear. To work on a bike I would not want to work in a LBS unless I made at least $20 and hour. While I generally like the job comparied to many others I get my fingers and nail dirty even wearing gloves and it drives me crazy keeping them clean. Also I hate horsing around heavy bikes, give me a light road bike to work on anytime.

Also while we are at.
it I built a new bike from box Bikes Direct yesterday for another parishioner. First time I have to work on mechanical disks brakes. They are certainly a pain compared to rim brakes. It is just experienced over time to get better or some video on how. I watched Park Tool video but my thinking is Andrew probably knows a better way. Seems getting them centered with the rotor is touchy. Getting is to no rub then tightening it in place can move it just enough to rub.
Help
Deacon Mark

On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 8:20:50 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
> And good luck finding a carb rebuild kit (which were once
> standard cheap items at every auto parts store). Modern
> rebuild kits commonly cover 87 models (one SKU!), often lack
> critical parts while including multiple copies of parts you
> don't need and cost a fortune.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I expected to buy a rebuild kit for a Toro lawnmower, and to my surprise I could get a complete cheap Chinese carburetor for $20. So I did, and to my surprise it fit perfectly and ran fine. This year my daughter's riding mower wouldn't start, swears she didn't leave gas in it but who knows, and this time I paid $30 but it came with a spark plug, air filter, and fuel filter. Again, fit perfectly, started right up, needed a little adjustment on the idle mixture and it's running better than before.

There were a couple parts in the box left over, dunno what they are.

On 6/29/2022 1:16 PM, Tim R wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 8:20:50 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>> And good luck finding a carb rebuild kit (which were once
>> standard cheap items at every auto parts store). Modern
>> rebuild kits commonly cover 87 models (one SKU!), often lack
>> critical parts while including multiple copies of parts you
>> don't need and cost a fortune.
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
> I expected to buy a rebuild kit for a Toro lawnmower, and to my surprise I could get a complete cheap Chinese carburetor for $20. So I did, and to my surprise it fit perfectly and ran fine. This year my daughter's riding mower wouldn't start, swears she didn't leave gas in it but who knows, and this time I paid $30 but it came with a spark plug, air filter, and fuel filter. Again, fit perfectly, started right up, needed a little adjustment on the idle mixture and it's running better than before.
>
> There were a couple parts in the box left over, dunno what they are.

I had the same experience with a friend's string trimmer, except that
carburetor was even cheaper. Removing the pretty plastic covering was
more work than the rest of the job.

But I'm afraid the experience would be much different with a car's
carburetor.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 10:16:41 -0700 (PDT), Tim R
<timothy42bach@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 8:20:50 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>> And good luck finding a carb rebuild kit (which were once
>> standard cheap items at every auto parts store). Modern
>> rebuild kits commonly cover 87 models (one SKU!), often lack
>> critical parts while including multiple copies of parts you
>> don't need and cost a fortune.
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

>I expected to buy a rebuild kit for a Toro lawnmower, and to my surprise I could get a complete cheap Chinese carburetor for $20. So I did, and to my surprise it fit perfectly and ran fine. This year my daughter's riding mower wouldn't start, swears she didn't leave gas in it but who knows, and this time I paid $30 but it came with a spark plug, air filter, and fuel filter. Again, fit perfectly, started right up, needed a little adjustment on the idle mixture and it's running better than before.
>
>There were a couple parts in the box left over, dunno what they are.

As I sideline, I repair and rebuild generators and chainsaws. My
guess(tm) is your daughter's riding mower wouldn't start is because
the carburetor fuel bowl was full of water from condensation in the
air. Remove the bowl and pour the gasoline into a coffee cup. If
there's a "blob" of liquid at the bottom of the cup, that's the water.
There may also be debris, dirt, and rust in the bowl, which are
indications that there's more of the same in the gas tank. If you
find water, you might well resign yourself to draining the gas tank
and pouring in new gas.

YouTube videos that cover the topic:
<https://www.youtube.com/c/Chickanic/videos>
<https://www.youtube.com/user/jcondon2007/videos>

I've had moderate luck with aftermarket carburetors. Some work, some
don't. I have better luck cleaning and rebuilding the original carb.
Most common problem are hardened rubber diaphragms and "gum" in the
fuel clogging passages. I've had few problems finding rebuild kits
for the more common carbs. Very difficult to find kits for obscure
models and custom variations. Carbs are cheap enough that I usually
buy a spare.

One of several ways to make your own gasket:
"How To Make Automotive Carburetor Gaskets"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdG10CR0Woc>
I use a plastic hammer, leather punch for the holes, and razor for the
detail work.

Hint: When your daughter stores the mower for more than about 2
months, ask her to turn off the fuel supply and run the engine until
it stops. She might have to play with the choke when the gas supply
is almost out to keep the engine running. Then, remove the carb fuel
bowl and power out any remaining gas. Make sure it's dry. That will
help keep the bowl from rusting or any fuel left in the passages from
turning to gum or sand.

Clogged petcock sediment bowl:
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/Generators/Coleman%20Powermate%203500/clogged%20petcock%2002.jpg>

Mega rust in fuel bowl:
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/fuel%20bowl%20rust.jpg>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Mark Cleary <deaconmjc08@gmail.com> wrote:
> Today I got a call from a parishioner asking about fixing his wheel
> because a spoke broke. It is an 8 spd town type bike for getting around.
> Weighs a ton but rides fine and works. He said he took the back wheel in
> to the LBS and they said well you just need a new rear wheel we can for
> maybe like $200. So then he thought well I call the deacon he knows bikes
> and works on them.
>
> Well he brought it over and typical 40 cc rear wheel with one broken
> drive side spoke. The cassette sits on then the last small cog that
> threads on to keep the cassette on. It takes 2 chain whips to remove the
> cassette. So my first things was glad I did not need to by a new tool I
> have not worked with freewheels much lately.
>
> The plastic disk and the hub itself was going to make threading the spoke
> through very hard. I don't how they build it seems not enough room. The
> dork disk was the biggest pain I have to cut it off would not just pop
> off was behind the hub spline the cassettes stacked on.
>
> Then sure enough I had a spare spoke of the correct length. However the
> only way I could get it to thread through the flange was to bend in
> almost 45 degrees. I could not figure how to remove the large holder for
> the cassette. FInally I straighten the spoke back up and trued up the
> wheel. Actually it was pretty good for a bike that is 20 years old the
> wheel trued ok the tension across are acceptably even enough.
>
> Then I fit the wheel back on the bike and had to actually make one turn
> of the rear derailleur limit screw so that the chain could not fall into
> the spokes. In the end in about 90 minutes including adjusting the
> shifting and putting the wheel back, the bike is fine. It is not need a new wheel at all.
>
> My question is if the local bike shop just did not want to do what I did?
> The hardest part was not replacing the spoke or even truing the wheel.
> That took the most brains but horsing around the heavy bike and then
> adjusting the brakes and shifting was more trouble. I assume these bike
> shops just want things easier from labor standpoint? I have no clue.
> Granted I am not the fastest mechanic but it is just work and time.
> Deacon Mark
>

Bike shops and bike shops, some are more like show rooms that sell new
bikes, others it’s more the workshop like my local, who I get stuff I can’t
or don’t want to do!

Roger Merriman

On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 12:34:34 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Mark Cleary <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Today I got a call from a parishioner asking about fixing his wheel
> > because a spoke broke. It is an 8 spd town type bike for getting around..
> > Weighs a ton but rides fine and works. He said he took the back wheel in
> > to the LBS and they said well you just need a new rear wheel we can for
> > maybe like $200. So then he thought well I call the deacon he knows bikes
> > and works on them.
> >
> > Well he brought it over and typical 40 cc rear wheel with one broken
> > drive side spoke. The cassette sits on then the last small cog that
> > threads on to keep the cassette on. It takes 2 chain whips to remove the
> > cassette. So my first things was glad I did not need to by a new tool I
> > have not worked with freewheels much lately.
> >
> > The plastic disk and the hub itself was going to make threading the spoke
> > through very hard. I don't how they build it seems not enough room. The
> > dork disk was the biggest pain I have to cut it off would not just pop
> > off was behind the hub spline the cassettes stacked on.
> >
> > Then sure enough I had a spare spoke of the correct length. However the
> > only way I could get it to thread through the flange was to bend in
> > almost 45 degrees. I could not figure how to remove the large holder for
> > the cassette. FInally I straighten the spoke back up and trued up the
> > wheel. Actually it was pretty good for a bike that is 20 years old the
> > wheel trued ok the tension across are acceptably even enough.
> >
> > Then I fit the wheel back on the bike and had to actually make one turn
> > of the rear derailleur limit screw so that the chain could not fall into
> > the spokes. In the end in about 90 minutes including adjusting the
> > shifting and putting the wheel back, the bike is fine. It is not need a new wheel at all.
> >
> > My question is if the local bike shop just did not want to do what I did?
> > The hardest part was not replacing the spoke or even truing the wheel.
> > That took the most brains but horsing around the heavy bike and then
> > adjusting the brakes and shifting was more trouble. I assume these bike
> > shops just want things easier from labor standpoint? I have no clue.
> > Granted I am not the fastest mechanic but it is just work and time.
> > Deacon Mark
> >
> Bike shops and bike shops, some are more like show rooms that sell new
> bikes, others it’s more the workshop like my local, who I get stuff I can’t
> or don’t want to do!

My local shop is both. He sells new bikes of the sorts that he believes are fast and reliable and he repairs bikes to be reliable. Inflation and loss of jobs is really hurting his business though. People can't afford a good bike with a Di2 custom steel bike is $10,000+. Now while I think that Di2 is completely unnecessary they are the best shifting bikes around by a wide margin.

I don't like to remember when direction the chain goes on each lever. Especially when Di2 has such small levers. So I simply reprogrammed the levers so that the outside (large) levers push the chain in the direction of increasing speed while the inside levers towards slower - climbing gears. This is something you can't do with manual levers.

I have just installed the Shimano 105 crank in the Colnago CLX 3.0. That runs so much smoother than the FSA it is replacing that it sold me even more on the 105 group. The Di2 shits beautifully on the me crank but I am going to have to take the off-side off again and find out why the plastic keeper doesn't fall into place and instead is partially extruding from the installed crank. I am assuming that the splines are off by one spline but it sure doesn't look that way.

On 6/29/2022 3:34 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Mark Cleary <deaconmjc08@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Today I got a call from a parishioner asking about fixing his wheel
>> because a spoke broke. It is an 8 spd town type bike for getting around.
>> Weighs a ton but rides fine and works. He said he took the back wheel in
>> to the LBS and they said well you just need a new rear wheel we can for
>> maybe like $200. So then he thought well I call the deacon he knows bikes
>> and works on them.
>>
>> Well he brought it over and typical 40 cc rear wheel with one broken
>> drive side spoke. The cassette sits on then the last small cog that
>> threads on to keep the cassette on. It takes 2 chain whips to remove the
>> cassette. So my first things was glad I did not need to by a new tool I
>> have not worked with freewheels much lately.
>>
>> The plastic disk and the hub itself was going to make threading the spoke
>> through very hard. I don't how they build it seems not enough room. The
>> dork disk was the biggest pain I have to cut it off would not just pop
>> off was behind the hub spline the cassettes stacked on.
>>
>> Then sure enough I had a spare spoke of the correct length. However the
>> only way I could get it to thread through the flange was to bend in
>> almost 45 degrees. I could not figure how to remove the large holder for
>> the cassette. FInally I straighten the spoke back up and trued up the
>> wheel. Actually it was pretty good for a bike that is 20 years old the
>> wheel trued ok the tension across are acceptably even enough.
>>
>> Then I fit the wheel back on the bike and had to actually make one turn
>> of the rear derailleur limit screw so that the chain could not fall into
>> the spokes. In the end in about 90 minutes including adjusting the
>> shifting and putting the wheel back, the bike is fine. It is not need a new wheel at all.
>>
>> My question is if the local bike shop just did not want to do what I did?
>> The hardest part was not replacing the spoke or even truing the wheel.
>> That took the most brains but horsing around the heavy bike and then
>> adjusting the brakes and shifting was more trouble. I assume these bike
>> shops just want things easier from labor standpoint? I have no clue.
>> Granted I am not the fastest mechanic but it is just work and time.
>> Deacon Mark
>>
>
> Bike shops and bike shops, some are more like show rooms that sell new
> bikes, others it’s more the workshop like my local, who I get stuff I can’t
> or don’t want to do!
>
> Roger Merriman
>
A pretty unique bike shop recently closed down, hopefully temporarily,
in Pittsburgh.
https://www.wpxi.com/news/local/wall-collapses-rear-bicycle-shop-garfield/NGDTNYCJS5H5VEYPKVIZIPF32Q/

Kraynicks was (is?) a wonderful place. The building is narrow, tall (at
least three stories), crowded, old, dark and jam packed full of bike
parts of all descriptions. There were (are?) rooms and rooms of obscure
and once trendy bike bits and accessories, and drawers and drawers of
not only ordinary equipment but also obscure spare parts.

Best of all, Kraynick's encouraged people to bring their bikes in and
use their workstations and advice to do their own repair work. It
provided a real community service.

I'm hoping it recovers and re-opens.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 09:01:09 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 6/28/2022 7:33 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 19:28:56 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/28/2022 7:16 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 15:52:27 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
>>>> <deaconmjc08@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Today I got a call from a parishioner asking about fixing his wheel because a spoke broke. It is an 8 spd town type bike for getting around. Weighs a ton but rides fine and works. He said he took the back wheel in to the LBS and they said well you just need a new rear wheel we can for maybe like $200. So then he thought well I call the deacon he knows bikes and works on them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well he brought it over and typical 40 cc rear wheel with one broken drive side spoke. The cassette sits on then the last small cog that threads on to keep the cassette on. It takes 2 chain whips to remove the cassette. So my first things was glad I did not need to by a new tool I have not worked with freewheels much lately.
>>>>>
>>>>> The plastic disk and the hub itself was going to make threading the spoke through very hard. I don't how they build it seems not enough room. The dork disk was the biggest pain I have to cut it off would not just pop off was behind the hub spline the cassettes stacked on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then sure enough I had a spare spoke of the correct length. However the only way I could get it to thread through the flange was to bend in almost 45 degrees. I could not figure how to remove the large holder for the cassette. FInally I straighten the spoke back up and trued up the wheel. Actually it was pretty good for a bike that is 20 years old the wheel trued ok the tension across are acceptably even enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then I fit the wheel back on the bike and had to actually make one turn of the rear derailleur limit screw so that the chain could not fall into the spokes. In the end in about 90 minutes including adjusting the shifting and putting the wheel back, the bike is fine. It is not need a new wheel at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> My question is if the local bike shop just did not want to do what I did? The hardest part was not replacing the spoke or even truing the wheel. That took the most brains but horsing around the heavy bike and then adjusting the brakes and shifting was more trouble. I assume these bike shops just want things easier from labor standpoint? I have no clue. Granted I am not the fastest mechanic but it is just work and time.
>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>
>>>> I would suppose, assuming a minimum salary of $15/hour that a bike
>>>> shop would want to be billing, maybe, $25/hour just to make ends meet
>>>> and thus probably can't afford to be fooling about with a, maybe 3 - 4
>>>> hour job.... well unless they can charge you $100 for doing it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ha. Ha. Ha.
>>>
>>> With taxes, rent and insurance even small shops can't break
>>> even at $25/hour.
>>
>> Out of curiosity and not to stick my nose into your business but what
>> is your estimate on the minimum billing for, oh say, a $10/hour
>> salary?
>>
>
>Base here is $18 and we bill open time at $80. Most jobs are
>flat rated and we're pretty zippy at all the usual things.

I assume that the "flat rate" does allow for a profit (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 6/29/2022 11:04 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 9:01:17 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 6/28/2022 7:33 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 19:28:56 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/28/2022 7:16 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 15:52:27 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
>>>>> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Today I got a call from a parishioner asking about fixing his wheel because a spoke broke. It is an 8 spd town type bike for getting around. Weighs a ton but rides fine and works. He said he took the back wheel in to the LBS and they said well you just need a new rear wheel we can for maybe like $200. So then he thought well I call the deacon he knows bikes and works on them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well he brought it over and typical 40 cc rear wheel with one broken drive side spoke. The cassette sits on then the last small cog that threads on to keep the cassette on. It takes 2 chain whips to remove the cassette. So my first things was glad I did not need to by a new tool I have not worked with freewheels much lately.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The plastic disk and the hub itself was going to make threading the spoke through very hard. I don't how they build it seems not enough room. The dork disk was the biggest pain I have to cut it off would not just pop off was behind the hub spline the cassettes stacked on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then sure enough I had a spare spoke of the correct length. However the only way I could get it to thread through the flange was to bend in almost 45 degrees. I could not figure how to remove the large holder for the cassette. FInally I straighten the spoke back up and trued up the wheel. Actually it was pretty good for a bike that is 20 years old the wheel trued ok the tension across are acceptably even enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then I fit the wheel back on the bike and had to actually make one turn of the rear derailleur limit screw so that the chain could not fall into the spokes. In the end in about 90 minutes including adjusting the shifting and putting the wheel back, the bike is fine. It is not need a new wheel at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My question is if the local bike shop just did not want to do what I did? The hardest part was not replacing the spoke or even truing the wheel. That took the most brains but horsing around the heavy bike and then adjusting the brakes and shifting was more trouble. I assume these bike shops just want things easier from labor standpoint? I have no clue. Granted I am not the fastest mechanic but it is just work and time.
>>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>>
>>>>> I would suppose, assuming a minimum salary of $15/hour that a bike
>>>>> shop would want to be billing, maybe, $25/hour just to make ends meet
>>>>> and thus probably can't afford to be fooling about with a, maybe 3 - 4
>>>>> hour job.... well unless they can charge you $100 for doing it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ha. Ha. Ha.
>>>>
>>>> With taxes, rent and insurance even small shops can't break
>>>> even at $25/hour.
>>>
>>> Out of curiosity and not to stick my nose into your business but what
>>> is your estimate on the minimum billing for, oh say, a $10/hour
>>> salary?
>>>
>> Base here is $18 and we bill open time at $80. Most jobs are
>> flat rated and we're pretty zippy at all the usual things.
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> The minimum wage in Illinois is now $12 an hour. Right now most people can find almost any job for $15 and hour. Personally I repair guitars and to do that I have to get $35 per hour at least clear. To work on a bike I would not want to work in a LBS unless I made at least $20 and hour. While I generally like the job comparied to many others I get my fingers and nail dirty even wearing gloves and it drives me crazy keeping them clean. Also I hate horsing around heavy bikes, give me a light road bike to work on anytime.
>
> Also while we are at.
> it I built a new bike from box Bikes Direct yesterday for another parishioner. First time I have to work on mechanical disks brakes. They are certainly a pain compared to rim brakes. It is just experienced over time to get better or some video on how. I watched Park Tool video but my thinking is Andrew probably knows a better way. Seems getting them centered with the rotor is touchy. Getting is to no rub then tightening it in place can move it just enough to rub.
> Help
> Deacon Mark
>

Normal prep- lube cable, anchor, adjuster, check casing
length and so on.

Slack the caliper mounts. Ensure it's free to move around
(spacers not stuck, etc)
Turn the inside adjuster tight.
Tighten mounting bolts securely.
Back out the inside adjuster until the inside pad clears the
rotor.
Adjust your brake as usual.

Depending on the packing quality or lack thereof you may
have to straighten the disc which is tedious but doable. I
remove the wheel and do that in a truing stand because we
have a well lit truing station with a nice white background.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/29/2022 1:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 6/29/2022 1:16 PM, Tim R wrote:
>> On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 8:20:50 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>>> And good luck finding a carb rebuild kit (which were once
>>> standard cheap items at every auto parts store). Modern
>>> rebuild kits commonly cover 87 models (one SKU!), often lack
>>> critical parts while including multiple copies of parts you
>>> don't need and cost a fortune.
>>> --
>>> Andrew Muzi
>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>
>> I expected to buy a rebuild kit for a Toro lawnmower, and
>> to my surprise I could get a complete cheap Chinese
>> carburetor for $20. So I did, and to my surprise it fit
>> perfectly and ran fine. This year my daughter's riding
>> mower wouldn't start, swears she didn't leave gas in it
>> but who knows, and this time I paid $30 but it came with a
>> spark plug, air filter, and fuel filter. Again, fit
>> perfectly, started right up, needed a little adjustment on
>> the idle mixture and it's running better than before.
>>
>> There were a couple parts in the box left over, dunno what
>> they are.
>
> I had the same experience with a friend's string trimmer,
> except that carburetor was even cheaper. Removing the pretty
> plastic covering was more work than the rest of the job.
>
> But I'm afraid the experience would be much different with a
> car's carburetor.
>
>

You would be correct.

Typically, here are used/rebuilt not new:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/324851423296

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/29/2022 5:20 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 09:01:09 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 6/28/2022 7:33 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 19:28:56 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/28/2022 7:16 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 15:52:27 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
>>>>> <deaconmjc08@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Today I got a call from a parishioner asking about fixing his wheel because a spoke broke. It is an 8 spd town type bike for getting around. Weighs a ton but rides fine and works. He said he took the back wheel in to the LBS and they said well you just need a new rear wheel we can for maybe like $200. So then he thought well I call the deacon he knows bikes and works on them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well he brought it over and typical 40 cc rear wheel with one broken drive side spoke. The cassette sits on then the last small cog that threads on to keep the cassette on. It takes 2 chain whips to remove the cassette. So my first things was glad I did not need to by a new tool I have not worked with freewheels much lately.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The plastic disk and the hub itself was going to make threading the spoke through very hard. I don't how they build it seems not enough room. The dork disk was the biggest pain I have to cut it off would not just pop off was behind the hub spline the cassettes stacked on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then sure enough I had a spare spoke of the correct length. However the only way I could get it to thread through the flange was to bend in almost 45 degrees. I could not figure how to remove the large holder for the cassette. FInally I straighten the spoke back up and trued up the wheel. Actually it was pretty good for a bike that is 20 years old the wheel trued ok the tension across are acceptably even enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then I fit the wheel back on the bike and had to actually make one turn of the rear derailleur limit screw so that the chain could not fall into the spokes. In the end in about 90 minutes including adjusting the shifting and putting the wheel back, the bike is fine. It is not need a new wheel at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My question is if the local bike shop just did not want to do what I did? The hardest part was not replacing the spoke or even truing the wheel. That took the most brains but horsing around the heavy bike and then adjusting the brakes and shifting was more trouble. I assume these bike shops just want things easier from labor standpoint? I have no clue. Granted I am not the fastest mechanic but it is just work and time.
>>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>>
>>>>> I would suppose, assuming a minimum salary of $15/hour that a bike
>>>>> shop would want to be billing, maybe, $25/hour just to make ends meet
>>>>> and thus probably can't afford to be fooling about with a, maybe 3 - 4
>>>>> hour job.... well unless they can charge you $100 for doing it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ha. Ha. Ha.
>>>>
>>>> With taxes, rent and insurance even small shops can't break
>>>> even at $25/hour.
>>>
>>> Out of curiosity and not to stick my nose into your business but what
>>> is your estimate on the minimum billing for, oh say, a $10/hour
>>> salary?
>>>
>>
>> Base here is $18 and we bill open time at $80. Most jobs are
>> flat rated and we're pretty zippy at all the usual things.
>
> I assume that the "flat rate" does allow for a profit (:-)
>

Barely. We're a bicycle store, not enjoying Apple's 40%
operating margin.

If we billed that rate more often I'd probably raise it.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/29/2022 6:36 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/29/2022 11:04 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>> On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 9:01:17 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 6/28/2022 7:33 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 19:28:56 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 6/28/2022 7:16 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 15:52:27 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
>>>>>> <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Today I got a call from a parishioner asking about fixing his
>>>>>>> wheel because a spoke broke. It is an 8 spd town type bike for
>>>>>>> getting around. Weighs a ton but rides fine and works. He said he
>>>>>>> took the back wheel in to the LBS and they said well you just
>>>>>>> need a new rear wheel we can for maybe like $200. So then he
>>>>>>> thought well I call the deacon he knows bikes and works on them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well he brought it over and typical 40 cc rear wheel with one
>>>>>>> broken drive side spoke. The cassette sits on then the last small
>>>>>>> cog that threads on to keep the cassette on. It takes 2 chain
>>>>>>> whips to remove the cassette. So my first things was glad I did
>>>>>>> not need to by a new tool I have not worked with freewheels much
>>>>>>> lately.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The plastic disk and the hub itself was going to make threading
>>>>>>> the spoke through very hard. I don't how they build it seems not
>>>>>>> enough room. The dork disk was the biggest pain I have to cut it
>>>>>>> off would not just pop off was behind the hub spline the
>>>>>>> cassettes stacked on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then sure enough I had a spare spoke of the correct length.
>>>>>>> However the only way I could get it to thread through the flange
>>>>>>> was to bend in almost 45 degrees. I could not figure how to
>>>>>>> remove the large holder for the cassette. FInally I straighten
>>>>>>> the spoke back up and trued up the wheel. Actually it was pretty
>>>>>>> good for a bike that is 20 years old the wheel trued ok the
>>>>>>> tension across are acceptably even enough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then I fit the wheel back on the bike and had to actually make
>>>>>>> one turn of the rear derailleur limit screw so that the chain
>>>>>>> could not fall into the spokes. In the end in about 90 minutes
>>>>>>> including adjusting the shifting and putting the wheel back, the
>>>>>>> bike is fine. It is not need a new wheel at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My question is if the local bike shop just did not want to do
>>>>>>> what I did? The hardest part was not replacing the spoke or even
>>>>>>> truing the wheel. That took the most brains but horsing around
>>>>>>> the heavy bike and then adjusting the brakes and shifting was
>>>>>>> more trouble. I assume these bike shops just want things easier
>>>>>>> from labor standpoint? I have no clue. Granted I am not the
>>>>>>> fastest mechanic but it is just work and time.
>>>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would suppose, assuming a minimum salary of $15/hour that a bike
>>>>>> shop would want to be billing, maybe, $25/hour just to make ends meet
>>>>>> and thus probably can't afford to be fooling about with a, maybe 3
>>>>>> - 4
>>>>>> hour job.... well unless they can charge you $100 for doing it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ha. Ha. Ha.
>>>>>
>>>>> With taxes, rent and insurance even small shops can't break
>>>>> even at $25/hour.
>>>>
>>>> Out of curiosity and not to stick my nose into your business but what
>>>> is your estimate on the minimum billing for, oh say, a $10/hour
>>>> salary?
>>>>
>>> Base here is $18 and we bill open time at $80. Most jobs are
>>> flat rated and we're pretty zippy at all the usual things.
>>> --
>>> Andrew Muzi
>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>> The minimum wage in Illinois is now $12 an hour. Right now most people
>> can find almost any job for $15 and hour. Personally I repair guitars
>> and to do that I have to get $35 per hour at least clear. To work on a
>> bike I would not want to work in a LBS unless I made at least $20 and
>> hour. While I generally like the job comparied to many others I get my
>> fingers and nail dirty even wearing gloves and it drives me crazy
>> keeping them clean. Also I hate horsing around heavy bikes, give me a
>> light road bike to work on anytime.
>>
>> Also while we are at.
>>   it I built a new bike from box Bikes Direct yesterday for another
>> parishioner. First time I have to work on mechanical disks brakes.
>> They are certainly a pain compared to rim brakes. It is just
>> experienced over time to get better or some video on how. I watched
>> Park Tool video but my thinking is Andrew probably knows a better way.
>> Seems getting them centered with the rotor is touchy. Getting is to no
>> rub then tightening it in place can move it just enough to rub.
>> Help
>> Deacon Mark
>>
>
> Normal prep- lube cable, anchor, adjuster, check casing length and so on.
>
> Slack the caliper mounts. Ensure it's free to move around (spacers not
> stuck, etc)
> Turn the inside adjuster tight.
> Tighten mounting bolts securely.
> Back out the inside adjuster until the inside pad clears the rotor.
> Adjust your brake as usual.
>
> Depending on the packing quality or lack thereof you may have to
> straighten the disc which is tedious but doable. I remove the wheel and
> do that in a truing stand because we have a well lit truing station with
> a nice white background.

This is a tiny point, but I've always found a white background extremely
valuable when truing wheels. Andrew, you're the only person I've known
of who mentioned that tip.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 17:55:29 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 6/29/2022 5:20 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 09:01:09 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/28/2022 7:33 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 19:28:56 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 6/28/2022 7:16 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 15:52:27 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
>>>>>> <deaconmjc08@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Today I got a call from a parishioner asking about fixing his wheel because a spoke broke. It is an 8 spd town type bike for getting around. Weighs a ton but rides fine and works. He said he took the back wheel in to the LBS and they said well you just need a new rear wheel we can for maybe like $200. So then he thought well I call the deacon he knows bikes and works on them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well he brought it over and typical 40 cc rear wheel with one broken drive side spoke. The cassette sits on then the last small cog that threads on to keep the cassette on. It takes 2 chain whips to remove the cassette. So my first things was glad I did not need to by a new tool I have not worked with freewheels much lately.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The plastic disk and the hub itself was going to make threading the spoke through very hard. I don't how they build it seems not enough room. The dork disk was the biggest pain I have to cut it off would not just pop off was behind the hub spline the cassettes stacked on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then sure enough I had a spare spoke of the correct length. However the only way I could get it to thread through the flange was to bend in almost 45 degrees. I could not figure how to remove the large holder for the cassette. FInally I straighten the spoke back up and trued up the wheel. Actually it was pretty good for a bike that is 20 years old the wheel trued ok the tension across are acceptably even enough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then I fit the wheel back on the bike and had to actually make one turn of the rear derailleur limit screw so that the chain could not fall into the spokes. In the end in about 90 minutes including adjusting the shifting and putting the wheel back, the bike is fine. It is not need a new wheel at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My question is if the local bike shop just did not want to do what I did? The hardest part was not replacing the spoke or even truing the wheel. That took the most brains but horsing around the heavy bike and then adjusting the brakes and shifting was more trouble. I assume these bike shops just want things easier from labor standpoint? I have no clue. Granted I am not the fastest mechanic but it is just work and time.
>>>>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would suppose, assuming a minimum salary of $15/hour that a bike
>>>>>> shop would want to be billing, maybe, $25/hour just to make ends meet
>>>>>> and thus probably can't afford to be fooling about with a, maybe 3 - 4
>>>>>> hour job.... well unless they can charge you $100 for doing it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ha. Ha. Ha.
>>>>>
>>>>> With taxes, rent and insurance even small shops can't break
>>>>> even at $25/hour.
>>>>
>>>> Out of curiosity and not to stick my nose into your business but what
>>>> is your estimate on the minimum billing for, oh say, a $10/hour
>>>> salary?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Base here is $18 and we bill open time at $80. Most jobs are
>>> flat rated and we're pretty zippy at all the usual things.
>>
>> I assume that the "flat rate" does allow for a profit (:-)
>>
>
>Barely. We're a bicycle store, not enjoying Apple's 40%
>operating margin.
>
>If we billed that rate more often I'd probably raise it.

Way back when, the standard "mark up" for the company I worked for in
Indonesia was 25% on all work and people when we had to submit a
competitive bid for work.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 6/29/2022 6:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/29/2022 1:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>
>> I had the same experience with a friend's string trimmer,
>> except that carburetor was even cheaper. Removing the pretty
>> plastic covering was more work than the rest of the job.
>>
>> But I'm afraid the experience would be much different with a
>> car's carburetor.
>>
>>
>
> You would be correct.
>
> Typically, here are used/rebuilt not new:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/324851423296

Yow.

Totally off-topic, but what are Corsa enthusiasts saying these days
about carbs misbehaving in hard cornering? I recall one hill climb time
trial when my Corsa lost power badly on a hard turn. Some guys were
telling me a trick with Bic pen tubing that was supposed to solve that.
Others talked about rotating the carbs 90 degrees.

I didn't experience the problem often enough to bother fixing it. And I
probably couldn't have afforded anything pricier than the Bic tubing.

(Ran into an old 'Vair buddy last week. He talked my ear off about our
cars.)

--
- Frank Krygowski