On Monday, July 4, 2022 at 2:01:18 AM UTC-7, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> Am Mon, 04 Jul 2022 07:15:32 +0700 schrieb John B.
> <sloc...@gmail.com>:
> >On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 16:26:21 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
> ><i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >
> >>On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:05:24 p.m. UTC-4, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> >>Snipped
> >>> Most of the bike lanes and bike paths I notice on our tours are a curse,
> >>> not a blessing. We prefer real roads. Like this one, for example.
> >>Snipped
> >>
> >>Here in Ontario, Canada the majority of bicycle lanes are Door-Zone lanes. Then there are others that go part way onto the on-ramps for major highways and are a real hazard to any bicyclist foolish enough to ride in it. I take the through lane of traffic not a right hand turning lane or on-ramp lane.
> >>
> >>Sometimes I think that bicycle lane planners are out to kill bicyclists.. Why else would such dangerous designs be allowed and built?
> >>
> >>Cheers
> >
> >I thought that this had been discussed and the outcome was that bike
> >lanes make the cyclist feel safer and therefore increase the numbers
> >of bicyclists (:-)
> Thats like Opioids, these make a person feel good and therefore increase
> the numbers of people buying these. The Sackler family got rich that
> way.
> >
> >Here we don't have bike lanes but we do have traffic laws that
> >everyone is supposed to obey and slower traffic is told to ride/drive
> >on the left side of the road so as not to impede faster traffic.
> Here in Germany, we have bike lanes and roadside bike paths, a large
> part of it is mandatory. And even when they aren't, or when there's no
> bike path in sight, some motorized traffic bullies will pretend there
> are and behave accordingly.
>
> For my local trips, I prefer rural areas that have been spared from
> anything like this. Ditto for holiday destinations.
>
> If there are no cycle paths in sight, cooperation works better. However,
> cyclists who only ride on cycle lanes/paths lose the ability to ride a
> vehicle safely, over time. Or they dont learn it to begin with. There
> are cynics who claim that cycle paths were invented in Germany for
> exactly that purpose.
> --
> Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen
There is the occasional quiet road around here and they are a joy to ride on. But the so-called Pandemic has destroyed all of the small businesses along them so that there are no more places to stop. This was done quite purposely and then these areas are all bought up by Bill Gates who is now one of the largest landholders outside of the US Government in the USA.

On Monday, July 4, 2022 at 2:01:18 AM UTC-7, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> Am Sun, 3 Jul 2022 16:26:21 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Sir Ridesalot
> <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca>:
> >On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:05:24 p.m. UTC-4, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> >Snipped
> >> Most of the bike lanes and bike paths I notice on our tours are a curse,
> >> not a blessing. We prefer real roads. Like this one, for example.
> >Snipped
> >
> >Here in Ontario, Canada the majority of bicycle lanes are Door-Zone lanes.
> Same here in Germany, in most cities I visited. But those lanes which
> are wider are no less cumbersome and dangerous, just in a different and
> less obvious way.
> >Then there are others that go part way onto the on-ramps for major
> >highways and are a real hazard to any bicyclist foolish enough
> >to ride in it.
> Many of our major roads have hard shoulders to accommodate stranded
> vehicles or farm traffic. Where there are no driveways and if they are
> paved like the road, you can sometimes cycle on them in sections. The
> disadvantage that they pick up dirt and are patchwork remains. I prefer
> to avoid them. Cycling on on-ramps, when you want to go straight is an
> absurdity.
> >I take the through lane of traffic not a right hand turning lane or on-ramp lane.
> +1
> >
> >Sometimes I think that bicycle lane planners are out to kill bicyclists.
> Hanlon's razor. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately
> explained by stupidity.
> >Why else would such dangerous designs be allowed and built?
> Well, about 30 years ago I was asked to become an active member of the
> German bicycling club ADFC of our district, and so did. What I learnt
> was
>
> - Clueless cyclists want bike lanes
>
> - A bike club doesn't gain members by telling potential members what
> they don't want to hear
>
> - There wasn't any knowledge about how to ride fast and safely in
> traffic around the other active members
>
> - There was no engineering or traffic science knowledge in the club
> from which one could have learned, at every level of the organization
>
> After noticing that most of past activity consisted of doing some
> cosmetics on what the city administration wanted and then selling it to
> the members, I studied what was available in the scientific literature,
> traffic science, specific for cycling. Didn't find much. Road design was
> solid, but the practical part of traffic science treated cyclists as a
> kind of pesty pedestrian on wheels, if at all.
>
> After I while I came to conclusions similar to what John Forester
> published in his two books, a rudimentary version of the reasons behind
> "effective cycling". I only came across the books and their author later
> and don't share all of his views, for example on bicycle helmets, but
> the essential stuff is solid. Similar with John Franklin (Cyclecraft),
> I also noticed and read him only later.
>
> The really interesting experience, however, was that nobody who made
> transport policy in the club knew these people or was at all interested
> in the question of whether what was being demanded was also beneficial
> for cycling, and for what reason.
>
> As far as I can tell from the outside, the club hasn't changed its modus
> operandi over the years, it's actually gotten worse in that it blatantly
> wants to import the "Dutch" or Copenhagen model. It's called populism.
>
> We, my family and I canceled our club membership one or two years later.
> --
> Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen
Freeways here are for motorized traffic only capable of at least 55 mph but we also have highways which allow all traffic or at least did. Now they are so heavily used that they are death traps for bicyclists and we are stuck using side roads for riding.

On 7/4/2022 5:40 AM, John B. wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Jul 2022 11:00:41 +0200, Wolfgang Strobl
> <news5@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>
>> Am Mon, 04 Jul 2022 07:15:32 +0700 schrieb John B.
>> <slocombjb@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 16:26:21 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
>>> <i_am_cycle_pathic@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:05:24 p.m. UTC-4, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>>>> Snipped
>>>>> Most of the bike lanes and bike paths I notice on our tours are a curse,
>>>>> not a blessing. We prefer real roads. Like this one, for example.
>>>> Snipped
>>>>
>>>> Here in Ontario, Canada the majority of bicycle lanes are Door-Zone lanes. Then there are others that go part way onto the on-ramps for major highways and are a real hazard to any bicyclist foolish enough to ride in it. I take the through lane of traffic not a right hand turning lane or on-ramp lane.
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes I think that bicycle lane planners are out to kill bicyclists. Why else would such dangerous designs be allowed and built?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> I thought that this had been discussed and the outcome was that bike
>>> lanes make the cyclist feel safer and therefore increase the numbers
>>> of bicyclists (:-)
>>
>> Thats like Opioids, these make a person feel good and therefore increase
>> the numbers of people buying these. The Sackler family got rich that
>> way.
>>
>>>
>>> Here we don't have bike lanes but we do have traffic laws that
>>> everyone is supposed to obey and slower traffic is told to ride/drive
>>> on the left side of the road so as not to impede faster traffic.
>>
>>
>> Here in Germany, we have bike lanes and roadside bike paths, a large
>> part of it is mandatory. And even when they aren't, or when there's no
>> bike path in sight, some motorized traffic bullies will pretend there
>> are and behave accordingly.
>>
>> For my local trips, I prefer rural areas that have been spared from
>> anything like this. Ditto for holiday destinations.
>>
>> If there are no cycle paths in sight, cooperation works better. However,
>> cyclists who only ride on cycle lanes/paths lose the ability to ride a
>> vehicle safely, over time. Or they dont learn it to begin with. There
>> are cynics who claim that cycle paths were invented in Germany for
>> exactly that purpose.
>
> I don't know why but I've been bicycling in Thailand for about 25
> years and had almost no "close calls". Partly, I think, because the
> law here states that slower traffic shall drive on the left side of
> the road so as not to impede faster traffic, and this is interpreted
> to include bicycles and small - 50cc - 100cc - motorcycles of which
> there are a great many here. Which means that driving down the highway
> it is not unusual at all to see slower vehicles on the left edge of
> the road, which is also where large trucks drive (:-)
>
> Another point is that as a general rule the larger vehicle in an
> accident is deemed, pending other evidence, to be at fault, so if an
> auto were to hit a bicycle the initial question asked by the Police is
> "Why did you hit him?" This is not to say that the Police won't
> question all involved before preferring charges but the initial
> attitude is "why did the car hit the bicycle?" Which seems to make a
> difference (:-)

I've wondered how the differences between cultures affect bicycling
among motor vehicles. I picked up my skills gradually (with help from
John Forester) in two different U.S. states. I've found that the same
techniques worked pretty well all across the U.S. and in most of where
we traveled in western Europe. I did think that drivers in Tallinn,
Estonia seemed pretty aggressive, as did BMW and Audi drivers in Poland.
But i had no real close calls and very few unpleasant experiences.

I can report a couple _very_ aggressive "Get in a bike lane!" shouts in
the purported paradise of Portland. But those were rare.

I know nothing of places with markedly different culture - Thailand,
Mexico, India, South America etc. And I don't even know whether to count
places like Australia as "markedly different culture."

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 7/4/2022 10:41 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, July 4, 2022 at 2:01:18 AM UTC-7, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>> Am Mon, 04 Jul 2022 07:15:32 +0700 schrieb John B.
>> <sloc...@gmail.com>:
>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 16:26:21 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
>>> <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:05:24 p.m. UTC-4, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>>>> Snipped
>>>>> Most of the bike lanes and bike paths I notice on our tours are a curse,
>>>>> not a blessing. We prefer real roads. Like this one, for example.
>>>> Snipped
>>>>
>>>> Here in Ontario, Canada the majority of bicycle lanes are Door-Zone lanes. Then there are others that go part way onto the on-ramps for major highways and are a real hazard to any bicyclist foolish enough to ride in it. I take the through lane of traffic not a right hand turning lane or on-ramp lane.
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes I think that bicycle lane planners are out to kill bicyclists. Why else would such dangerous designs be allowed and built?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> I thought that this had been discussed and the outcome was that bike
>>> lanes make the cyclist feel safer and therefore increase the numbers
>>> of bicyclists (:-)
>> Thats like Opioids, these make a person feel good and therefore increase
>> the numbers of people buying these. The Sackler family got rich that
>> way.
>>>
>>> Here we don't have bike lanes but we do have traffic laws that
>>> everyone is supposed to obey and slower traffic is told to ride/drive
>>> on the left side of the road so as not to impede faster traffic.
>> Here in Germany, we have bike lanes and roadside bike paths, a large
>> part of it is mandatory. And even when they aren't, or when there's no
>> bike path in sight, some motorized traffic bullies will pretend there
>> are and behave accordingly.
>>
>> For my local trips, I prefer rural areas that have been spared from
>> anything like this. Ditto for holiday destinations.
>>
>> If there are no cycle paths in sight, cooperation works better. However,
>> cyclists who only ride on cycle lanes/paths lose the ability to ride a
>> vehicle safely, over time. Or they dont learn it to begin with. There
>> are cynics who claim that cycle paths were invented in Germany for
>> exactly that purpose.
>> --
>> Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen
> There is the occasional quiet road around here and they are a joy to ride on. But the so-called Pandemic has destroyed all of the small businesses along them so that there are no more places to stop. This was done quite purposely and then these areas are all bought up by Bill Gates who is now one of the largest landholders outside of the US Government in the USA.

Tom can't enter a discussion for five minutes without turning it into a
right wing rant.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 7/4/2022 9:53 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 7/4/2022 5:40 AM, John B. wrote:
>> On Mon, 04 Jul 2022 11:00:41 +0200, Wolfgang Strobl
>> <news5@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Am Mon, 04 Jul 2022 07:15:32 +0700 schrieb John B.
>>> <slocombjb@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 16:26:21 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
>>>> <i_am_cycle_pathic@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:05:24 p.m. UTC-4, Wolfgang
>>>>> Strobl wrote:
>>>>> Snipped
>>>>>> Most of the bike lanes and bike paths I notice on our
>>>>>> tours are a curse,
>>>>>> not a blessing. We prefer real roads. Like this one,
>>>>>> for example.
>>>>> Snipped
>>>>>
>>>>> Here in Ontario, Canada the majority of bicycle lanes
>>>>> are Door-Zone lanes. Then there are others that go part
>>>>> way onto the on-ramps for major highways and are a real
>>>>> hazard to any bicyclist foolish enough to ride in it. I
>>>>> take the through lane of traffic not a right hand
>>>>> turning lane or on-ramp lane.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sometimes I think that bicycle lane planners are out
>>>>> to kill bicyclists. Why else would such dangerous
>>>>> designs be allowed and built?
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> I thought that this had been discussed and the outcome
>>>> was that bike
>>>> lanes make the cyclist feel safer and therefore increase
>>>> the numbers
>>>> of bicyclists (:-)
>>>
>>> Thats like Opioids, these make a person feel good and
>>> therefore increase
>>> the numbers of people buying these. The Sackler family
>>> got rich that
>>> way.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here we don't have bike lanes but we do have traffic
>>>> laws that
>>>> everyone is supposed to obey and slower traffic is told
>>>> to ride/drive
>>>> on the left side of the road so as not to impede faster
>>>> traffic.
>>>
>>>
>>> Here in Germany, we have bike lanes and roadside bike
>>> paths, a large
>>> part of it is mandatory. And even when they aren't, or
>>> when there's no
>>> bike path in sight, some motorized traffic bullies will
>>> pretend there
>>> are and behave accordingly.
>>>
>>> For my local trips, I prefer rural areas that have been
>>> spared from
>>> anything like this. Ditto for holiday destinations.
>>>
>>> If there are no cycle paths in sight, cooperation works
>>> better. However,
>>> cyclists who only ride on cycle lanes/paths lose the
>>> ability to ride a
>>> vehicle safely, over time. Or they dont learn it to begin
>>> with. There
>>> are cynics who claim that cycle paths were invented in
>>> Germany for
>>> exactly that purpose.
>>
>> I don't know why but I've been bicycling in Thailand for
>> about 25
>> years and had almost no "close calls". Partly, I think,
>> because the
>> law here states that slower traffic shall drive on the
>> left side of
>> the road so as not to impede faster traffic, and this is
>> interpreted
>> to include bicycles and small - 50cc - 100cc - motorcycles
>> of which
>> there are a great many here. Which means that driving down
>> the highway
>> it is not unusual at all to see slower vehicles on the
>> left edge of
>> the road, which is also where large trucks drive (:-)
>>
>> Another point is that as a general rule the larger vehicle
>> in an
>> accident is deemed, pending other evidence, to be at
>> fault, so if an
>> auto were to hit a bicycle the initial question asked by
>> the Police is
>> "Why did you hit him?" This is not to say that the Police
>> won't
>> question all involved before preferring charges but the
>> initial
>> attitude is "why did the car hit the bicycle?" Which seems
>> to make a
>> difference (:-)
>
> I've wondered how the differences between cultures affect
> bicycling among motor vehicles. I picked up my skills
> gradually (with help from John Forester) in two different
> U.S. states. I've found that the same techniques worked
> pretty well all across the U.S. and in most of where we
> traveled in western Europe. I did think that drivers in
> Tallinn, Estonia seemed pretty aggressive, as did BMW and
> Audi drivers in Poland. But i had no real close calls and
> very few unpleasant experiences.
>
> I can report a couple _very_ aggressive "Get in a bike
> lane!" shouts in the purported paradise of Portland. But
> those were rare.
>
> I know nothing of places with markedly different culture -
> Thailand, Mexico, India, South America etc. And I don't even
> know whether to count places like Australia as "markedly
> different culture."
>

There are marked differences in neighborhoods in that some
streets/roads move in different patterns/speeds and probably
with a different driver attitude ( brisk commuting route vs
local errands). Even those differences are different on
weekdays/weekends and mid morning vs late evening. Hard to
generalize.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, July 4, 2022 at 8:43:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 7/4/2022 9:53 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 7/4/2022 5:40 AM, John B. wrote:
> >> On Mon, 04 Jul 2022 11:00:41 +0200, Wolfgang Strobl
> >> <ne...@mystrobl.de> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Am Mon, 04 Jul 2022 07:15:32 +0700 schrieb John B.
> >>> <sloc...@gmail.com>:
> >>>
> >>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 16:26:21 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
> >>>> <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 7:05:24 p.m. UTC-4, Wolfgang
> >>>>> Strobl wrote:
> >>>>> Snipped
> >>>>>> Most of the bike lanes and bike paths I notice on our
> >>>>>> tours are a curse,
> >>>>>> not a blessing. We prefer real roads. Like this one,
> >>>>>> for example.
> >>>>> Snipped
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here in Ontario, Canada the majority of bicycle lanes
> >>>>> are Door-Zone lanes. Then there are others that go part
> >>>>> way onto the on-ramps for major highways and are a real
> >>>>> hazard to any bicyclist foolish enough to ride in it. I
> >>>>> take the through lane of traffic not a right hand
> >>>>> turning lane or on-ramp lane.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sometimes I think that bicycle lane planners are out
> >>>>> to kill bicyclists. Why else would such dangerous
> >>>>> designs be allowed and built?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers
> >>>>
> >>>> I thought that this had been discussed and the outcome
> >>>> was that bike
> >>>> lanes make the cyclist feel safer and therefore increase
> >>>> the numbers
> >>>> of bicyclists (:-)
> >>>
> >>> Thats like Opioids, these make a person feel good and
> >>> therefore increase
> >>> the numbers of people buying these. The Sackler family
> >>> got rich that
> >>> way.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Here we don't have bike lanes but we do have traffic
> >>>> laws that
> >>>> everyone is supposed to obey and slower traffic is told
> >>>> to ride/drive
> >>>> on the left side of the road so as not to impede faster
> >>>> traffic.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Here in Germany, we have bike lanes and roadside bike
> >>> paths, a large
> >>> part of it is mandatory. And even when they aren't, or
> >>> when there's no
> >>> bike path in sight, some motorized traffic bullies will
> >>> pretend there
> >>> are and behave accordingly.
> >>>
> >>> For my local trips, I prefer rural areas that have been
> >>> spared from
> >>> anything like this. Ditto for holiday destinations.
> >>>
> >>> If there are no cycle paths in sight, cooperation works
> >>> better. However,
> >>> cyclists who only ride on cycle lanes/paths lose the
> >>> ability to ride a
> >>> vehicle safely, over time. Or they dont learn it to begin
> >>> with. There
> >>> are cynics who claim that cycle paths were invented in
> >>> Germany for
> >>> exactly that purpose.
> >>
> >> I don't know why but I've been bicycling in Thailand for
> >> about 25
> >> years and had almost no "close calls". Partly, I think,
> >> because the
> >> law here states that slower traffic shall drive on the
> >> left side of
> >> the road so as not to impede faster traffic, and this is
> >> interpreted
> >> to include bicycles and small - 50cc - 100cc - motorcycles
> >> of which
> >> there are a great many here. Which means that driving down
> >> the highway
> >> it is not unusual at all to see slower vehicles on the
> >> left edge of
> >> the road, which is also where large trucks drive (:-)
> >>
> >> Another point is that as a general rule the larger vehicle
> >> in an
> >> accident is deemed, pending other evidence, to be at
> >> fault, so if an
> >> auto were to hit a bicycle the initial question asked by
> >> the Police is
> >> "Why did you hit him?" This is not to say that the Police
> >> won't
> >> question all involved before preferring charges but the
> >> initial
> >> attitude is "why did the car hit the bicycle?" Which seems
> >> to make a
> >> difference (:-)
> >
> > I've wondered how the differences between cultures affect
> > bicycling among motor vehicles. I picked up my skills
> > gradually (with help from John Forester) in two different
> > U.S. states. I've found that the same techniques worked
> > pretty well all across the U.S. and in most of where we
> > traveled in western Europe. I did think that drivers in
> > Tallinn, Estonia seemed pretty aggressive, as did BMW and
> > Audi drivers in Poland. But i had no real close calls and
> > very few unpleasant experiences.
> >
> > I can report a couple _very_ aggressive "Get in a bike
> > lane!" shouts in the purported paradise of Portland. But
> > those were rare.
> >
> > I know nothing of places with markedly different culture -
> > Thailand, Mexico, India, South America etc. And I don't even
> > know whether to count places like Australia as "markedly
> > different culture."
> >
> There are marked differences in neighborhoods in that some
> streets/roads move in different patterns/speeds and probably
> with a different driver attitude ( brisk commuting route vs
> local errands). Even those differences are different on
> weekdays/weekends and mid morning vs late evening. Hard to
> generalize.

In the bay area here, if you're riding in the rich areas you have to be extremely careful since they have the attitude of "Get the F out of my way". Even on slow back streets where you'd expect them to be careful of cars pulling out of driveways.

On Monday, July 4, 2022 at 1:05:24 AM UTC+2, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> Am Fri, 1 Jul 2022 06:36:46 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Lou Holtman
> <lou.h...@gmail.com>:
>
> >On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 9:06:45 AM UTC+2, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> >> Am Thu, 30 Jun 2022 13:23:02 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Lou Holtman
> >> <lou.h...@gmail.com>:
> >> >You don’t have to worry about me; up to now just 5800 km this year.
> >> >Last ride yesterday, next ride tomorrow.
> >> That's great. But most of what I read here is not about cycling, where
> >> people ride, for what purpose, what they use while riding, what they see
> >> doing it...
> >>
> >> Sure, this is .tech, but it is the last remaining working r.b. group,
> >> there is not much context for talking tech, anymore.
> >> --
> >> Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen
> >
> >I pushed myself last Wednesday, so today I was 'allowed'
> >a relaxed ride ;-) so I had the time to take some pictures along
> >today's route, one of my 'Hausrundes'. While doing so one
> >realize that you take a lot for granted but actually
> >are blessed with nice cycling roads.
> >Thanks for the reminder.
> Most of the bike lanes and bike paths I notice on our tours are a curse,
> not a blessing. We prefer real roads. Like this one, for example.
>
> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20220703/DSC00067.jpg>
>
> (Picture from today - well, yesterday :-)
>
> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pluspora/plainpostings/20220703t2223-home_routes_on_our_racing_bikes_2022_06_28_2022_07_03.html>
>
>
> Or that one, from Februar.
>
> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20220227/20220227_145407_HDR.jpg>
>

You showing nice empty roads and certainly prefer these roads over bike paths, but living close to the German border (Nord Rhein Westfalen) I ride quite a lot in Germany and I can assure you that the Bundes- oder LandesStrasse are not always empty and in most cases quite busy. In that case I prefer our empty bike paths with good asphalt like I showed in some of my pictures.. These a far from a curse, that is snobbish nonsense.
> >
> >https://photos.app.goo.gl/A5e6efzoEPsvBe8G7
>
>
> Thanks for sharing! Nice. It's certainly a question of taste, but on
> vacation we usually chose areas that were a bit hillier than what we
> have here when we ride out of the Rhine Valley. The landscape varies
> more and so does riding your bike. On the other hand, we don't like
> real mountain areas, for various reasons, too heavy for us, too few
> supply options and accommodation.

I have no choice Rundum Hause. For hills I have to go to Zuid Limburg (70 km away) or to the Ardennes (90 km away) or to the Eiffel (90-100 km away). Not something you do on you Abend Runde after work.
>

Lou

On Monday, July 4, 2022 at 1:05:24 AM UTC+2, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> Am Fri, 1 Jul 2022 06:36:46 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Lou Holtman
> <lou.h...@gmail.com>:
>
> >On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 9:06:45 AM UTC+2, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> >> Am Thu, 30 Jun 2022 13:23:02 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Lou Holtman
> >> <lou.h...@gmail.com>:
> >> >You don’t have to worry about me; up to now just 5800 km this year.
> >> >Last ride yesterday, next ride tomorrow.
> >> That's great. But most of what I read here is not about cycling, where
> >> people ride, for what purpose, what they use while riding, what they see
> >> doing it...
> >>
> >> Sure, this is .tech, but it is the last remaining working r.b. group,
> >> there is not much context for talking tech, anymore.
> >> --
> >> Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen
> >
> >I pushed myself last Wednesday, so today I was 'allowed'
> >a relaxed ride ;-) so I had the time to take some pictures along
> >today's route, one of my 'Hausrundes'. While doing so one
> >realize that you take a lot for granted but actually
> >are blessed with nice cycling roads.
> >Thanks for the reminder.
> Most of the bike lanes and bike paths I notice on our tours are a curse,
> not a blessing. We prefer real roads. Like this one, for example.
>
> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20220703/DSC00067.jpg>
>
> (Picture from today - well, yesterday :-)
>
> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pluspora/plainpostings/20220703t2223-home_routes_on_our_racing_bikes_2022_06_28_2022_07_03.html>
>
>
> Or that one, from Februar.
>
> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20220227/20220227_145407_HDR.jpg>
>

Oh BTW bike paths in Germany are terrible and the quality of the small farm roads is terrible compared to The Netherlands.

Lou

On Monday, July 4, 2022 at 10:20:56 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Monday, July 4, 2022 at 1:05:24 AM UTC+2, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> > Am Fri, 1 Jul 2022 06:36:46 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Lou Holtman
> > <lou.h...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > >On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 9:06:45 AM UTC+2, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> > >> Am Thu, 30 Jun 2022 13:23:02 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Lou Holtman
> > >> <lou.h...@gmail.com>:
> > >> >You don’t have to worry about me; up to now just 5800 km this year.
> > >> >Last ride yesterday, next ride tomorrow.
> > >> That's great. But most of what I read here is not about cycling, where
> > >> people ride, for what purpose, what they use while riding, what they see
> > >> doing it...
> > >>
> > >> Sure, this is .tech, but it is the last remaining working r.b. group,
> > >> there is not much context for talking tech, anymore.
> > >> --
> > >> Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen
> > >
> > >I pushed myself last Wednesday, so today I was 'allowed'
> > >a relaxed ride ;-) so I had the time to take some pictures along
> > >today's route, one of my 'Hausrundes'. While doing so one
> > >realize that you take a lot for granted but actually
> > >are blessed with nice cycling roads.
> > >Thanks for the reminder.
> > Most of the bike lanes and bike paths I notice on our tours are a curse,
> > not a blessing. We prefer real roads. Like this one, for example.
> >
> > <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20220703/DSC00067.jpg>
> >
> > (Picture from today - well, yesterday :-)
> >
> > <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pluspora/plainpostings/20220703t2223-home_routes_on_our_racing_bikes_2022_06_28_2022_07_03.html>
> >
> >
> > Or that one, from Februar.
> >
> > <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20220227/20220227_145407_HDR.jpg>
> >
> Oh BTW bike paths in Germany are terrible and the quality of the small farm roads is terrible compared to The Netherlands.
We used to take the unpaved bike paths here simply because the roads were so badly paved that the gravel paths actually felt smoother. Riding from my home to Palo Alto which is an 85 km round trip the trip out early in the morning would be fairly safe but on the way back the traffic would be dangerous so we would take some gravel trails to the back roads where traffic would be fairly light.

Once in awhile when I was training for a Century, I would ride to Palo Alto on the east side of the bay and then ride back on the west side of the bay into San Francisco where I could catch the rapid transit back to my home. This would be 64 miles on the bike and for some reason all of the traffic on the west side of the bay stays off of the back roads which it doesn't do on the east side. Taking the easiest route could put you into San Francisco I believe on 3rd St. Some of that could be quite dangerous with heavy and fast traffic but most of it was OK and you could get a fairly safe ride into downtown The section which have the Trolley cars in the middle of the street were pretty much OK because the cars would use other streets to avoid being blocked by the street cars.

But I suppose living around any highly populated area would be fairly similar. The pictures I've seen of cars and bikes mixing in Holland didn't look in the least safe to me. But people seemed to be used to that sort of thing as i am around here.

Am Mon, 4 Jul 2022 10:18:58 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Lou Holtman
<lou.holtman@gmail.com>:

>You showing nice empty roads and certainly prefer these
>roads over bike paths, but living close to the German border
>(Nord Rhein Westfalen) I ride quite a lot in Germany and I
>can assure you that the Bundes- oder LandesStrasse are not
>always empty and in most cases quite busy.

I probably didn't make it clear enough that I wasn't showing my commute
here, but long rides I now have the time for, because I retired years
ago. Of course I prefer those nice and mostly empty roads, after leaving
the city on roads that are more crowded than they where, decades ago.

For decades my commute was a route in heavy traffic at rush hour, right
through the city, across the Rhine, through another part of the city and
then up a hill into the country.

Initially I was a fan of bike lanes and joined the ADFC to promote
better bike lanes instead of the dangerous crap we still have - and you
also have in the Netherlands if you look closely enough around those
showcases. I was young and naive, if taht's an excuse.

It took me years to gradually avoid the detours via cycle paths and
instead choose the more comfortable and safer direct connections via the
main roads and to understand why cycle paths don't make cycling faster
and safer, but slow and dangerous.

Having avoided that "infrastructure" like the proverbial plague, all
that remained was conflicts caused by motorists noticing some cycling
path or lane, independent of whether those exist or just are imagined.
We call the "Revierschutzverhalten", territorial protection behavior.

>In that case I
>prefer our empty bike paths with good asphalt like I showed
>in some of my pictures.

Natural barriers such as rivers and coasts, as well as unnatural
barriers such as motorways, make cycling attractive for short journeys
and driving for longer journeys. That is a good description of the
Netherlands and almost all showcases of cycle routes.

There are sparsely populated flat areas too, where people used to drive
to with Dutch bikes on the car luggage rack, only to ride around there
on bike paths that are sometimes empty, sometimes overcrowded. Why do
people do that? The do so because they are afraid of people of their own
kind in the car and disdain cyclist on "their roads". Now those people
drive mobile homes and carry e-bikes on the rear luggage rack.

Those with Dutch license plates seem to have more problems with cyclists
than others. I experienced that here, but also recently observed it in
France. N data, just an anecdote, of course.

Those people are still a minority. Most people around here, independent
of nationality, just drive their car or ride their bike and share the
roads. That's great!

You can't just build cycle paths everywhere because there isn't enough
space and because the more important traffic always has priority, i.e.
it got all the good space, doesn't have to take unnecessary detours and
can compensate them by faster driving, anyway. Car traffic is the more
important traffic in the Netherlands, too. Look at the freeways.

(From another post)

> Oh BTW bike paths in Germany are terrible and the quality
> of the small farm roads is terrible compared to The Netherlands.

Unfortunately - or fortunately, for various reasons - most of Germany
and Europe aren't that flat and that small. Transplanting the Dutch
model of cycling as cycling in pedestrian zones or as an amusement park
on the coast produces exactly the bad crap you criticize for NRW. And
almost everywhere else.

One of my sons sometimes uses the Ruhr's flagship cycle path, preferably
at times when no one else is using it, especially no pedestrians. But
the RS1 is ideal for running, he says.
--
Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 12:27:31 PM UTC+2, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> Am Mon, 4 Jul 2022 10:18:58 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Lou Holtman
> <lou.h...@gmail.com>:
> >You showing nice empty roads and certainly prefer these
> >roads over bike paths, but living close to the German border
> >(Nord Rhein Westfalen) I ride quite a lot in Germany and I
> >can assure you that the Bundes- oder LandesStrasse are not
> >always empty and in most cases quite busy.
> I probably didn't make it clear enough that I wasn't showing my commute
> here, but long rides I now have the time for, because I retired years
> ago. Of course I prefer those nice and mostly empty roads, after leaving
> the city on roads that are more crowded than they where, decades ago.
>
> For decades my commute was a route in heavy traffic at rush hour, right
> through the city, across the Rhine, through another part of the city and
> then up a hill into the country.
>
> Initially I was a fan of bike lanes and joined the ADFC to promote
> better bike lanes instead of the dangerous crap we still have - and you
> also have in the Netherlands if you look closely enough around those
> showcases. I was young and naive, if taht's an excuse.
>
> It took me years to gradually avoid the detours via cycle paths and
> instead choose the more comfortable and safer direct connections via the
> main roads and to understand why cycle paths don't make cycling faster
> and safer, but slow and dangerous.
>
> Having avoided that "infrastructure" like the proverbial plague, all
> that remained was conflicts caused by motorists noticing some cycling
> path or lane, independent of whether those exist or just are imagined.
> We call the "Revierschutzverhalten", territorial protection behavior.
> >In that case I
> >prefer our empty bike paths with good asphalt like I showed
> >in some of my pictures.
> Natural barriers such as rivers and coasts, as well as unnatural
> barriers such as motorways, make cycling attractive for short journeys
> and driving for longer journeys. That is a good description of the
> Netherlands and almost all showcases of cycle routes.
>
> There are sparsely populated flat areas too, where people used to drive
> to with Dutch bikes on the car luggage rack, only to ride around there
> on bike paths that are sometimes empty, sometimes overcrowded. Why do
> people do that? The do so because they are afraid of people of their own
> kind in the car and disdain cyclist on "their roads". Now those people
> drive mobile homes and carry e-bikes on the rear luggage rack.
>
> Those with Dutch license plates seem to have more problems with cyclists
> than others. I experienced that here, but also recently observed it in
> France. N data, just an anecdote, of course.
>
> Those people are still a minority. Most people around here, independent
> of nationality, just drive their car or ride their bike and share the
> roads. That's great!
>
> You can't just build cycle paths everywhere because there isn't enough
> space and because the more important traffic always has priority, i.e.
> it got all the good space, doesn't have to take unnecessary detours and
> can compensate them by faster driving, anyway. Car traffic is the more
> important traffic in the Netherlands, too. Look at the freeways.
>
> (From another post)
> > Oh BTW bike paths in Germany are terrible and the quality
> > of the small farm roads is terrible compared to The Netherlands.
> Unfortunately - or fortunately, for various reasons - most of Germany
> and Europe aren't that flat and that small. Transplanting the Dutch
> model of cycling as cycling in pedestrian zones or as an amusement park
> on the coast produces exactly the bad crap you criticize for NRW. And
> almost everywhere else.
>
> One of my sons sometimes uses the Ruhr's flagship cycle path, preferably
> at times when no one else is using it, especially no pedestrians. But
> the RS1 is ideal for running, he says.
> --
> Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

That is an incoherent story. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Lou

On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 8:38:39 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 12:27:31 PM UTC+2, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> > Am Mon, 4 Jul 2022 10:18:58 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Lou Holtman
> > <lou.h...@gmail.com>:
> > >You showing nice empty roads and certainly prefer these
> > >roads over bike paths, but living close to the German border
> > >(Nord Rhein Westfalen) I ride quite a lot in Germany and I
> > >can assure you that the Bundes- oder LandesStrasse are not
> > >always empty and in most cases quite busy.
> > I probably didn't make it clear enough that I wasn't showing my commute
> > here, but long rides I now have the time for, because I retired years
> > ago. Of course I prefer those nice and mostly empty roads, after leaving
> > the city on roads that are more crowded than they where, decades ago.
> >
> > For decades my commute was a route in heavy traffic at rush hour, right
> > through the city, across the Rhine, through another part of the city and
> > then up a hill into the country.
> >
> > Initially I was a fan of bike lanes and joined the ADFC to promote
> > better bike lanes instead of the dangerous crap we still have - and you
> > also have in the Netherlands if you look closely enough around those
> > showcases. I was young and naive, if taht's an excuse.
> >
> > It took me years to gradually avoid the detours via cycle paths and
> > instead choose the more comfortable and safer direct connections via the
> > main roads and to understand why cycle paths don't make cycling faster
> > and safer, but slow and dangerous.
> >
> > Having avoided that "infrastructure" like the proverbial plague, all
> > that remained was conflicts caused by motorists noticing some cycling
> > path or lane, independent of whether those exist or just are imagined.
> > We call the "Revierschutzverhalten", territorial protection behavior.
> > >In that case I
> > >prefer our empty bike paths with good asphalt like I showed
> > >in some of my pictures.
> > Natural barriers such as rivers and coasts, as well as unnatural
> > barriers such as motorways, make cycling attractive for short journeys
> > and driving for longer journeys. That is a good description of the
> > Netherlands and almost all showcases of cycle routes.
> >
> > There are sparsely populated flat areas too, where people used to drive
> > to with Dutch bikes on the car luggage rack, only to ride around there
> > on bike paths that are sometimes empty, sometimes overcrowded. Why do
> > people do that? The do so because they are afraid of people of their own
> > kind in the car and disdain cyclist on "their roads". Now those people
> > drive mobile homes and carry e-bikes on the rear luggage rack.
> >
> > Those with Dutch license plates seem to have more problems with cyclists
> > than others. I experienced that here, but also recently observed it in
> > France. N data, just an anecdote, of course.
> >
> > Those people are still a minority. Most people around here, independent
> > of nationality, just drive their car or ride their bike and share the
> > roads. That's great!
> >
> > You can't just build cycle paths everywhere because there isn't enough
> > space and because the more important traffic always has priority, i.e.
> > it got all the good space, doesn't have to take unnecessary detours and
> > can compensate them by faster driving, anyway. Car traffic is the more
> > important traffic in the Netherlands, too. Look at the freeways.
> >
> > (From another post)
> > > Oh BTW bike paths in Germany are terrible and the quality
> > > of the small farm roads is terrible compared to The Netherlands.
> > Unfortunately - or fortunately, for various reasons - most of Germany
> > and Europe aren't that flat and that small. Transplanting the Dutch
> > model of cycling as cycling in pedestrian zones or as an amusement park
> > on the coast produces exactly the bad crap you criticize for NRW. And
> > almost everywhere else.
> >
> > One of my sons sometimes uses the Ruhr's flagship cycle path, preferably
> > at times when no one else is using it, especially no pedestrians. But
> > the RS1 is ideal for running, he says.
> > --
> > Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen
> That is an incoherent story. Doesn't make any sense to me.
>
> Lou

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMjECeE3WEA_RiE3_iv9QsaAScXtg3MY2UPJzju
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPJRgdNvAHqNle1zGMACrRIlnw_TY10U3XX4KC5

This was the 1100 foot mark of yesterday's ride. 20 miles after we hit the 900 foot mark and then descended back to near sea level. Lousy riding weather though we finally got mostly back to were there was a coffee shop. An iced Vietnamese coffee and an apple turnover that at one time of another had an apple waved over it made the final 3 miles better.

The intention had been to go to Moraga but I was told that Pinehurst Road was closed though it didn't look that way. Perhaps they meant Valley road that is a two mile stretch from Pinehurst to Moraga. Last time I went that way the road was so bad that they put a stop light at the small bridge which had been reduced to one lane though that didn't stop tractor-trailers from taking that road that was entirely inadequate for heavy vehicles. You would think that signs stating "No Trucks" would be enough. But not when they're using Google Maps set for "autos"

On 7/6/2022 12:43 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
>
> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMjECeE3WEA_RiE3_iv9QsaAScXtg3MY2UPJzju
> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPJRgdNvAHqNle1zGMACrRIlnw_TY10U3XX4KC5
>
> This was the 1100 foot mark of yesterday's ride.

Nope. 404 errors.

Tom has SO many problems!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 09:43:53 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMjECeE3WEA_RiE3_iv9QsaAScXtg3MY2UPJzju
>https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPJRgdNvAHqNle1zGMACrRIlnw_TY10U3XX4KC5

404. That’s an error.
The requested URL was not found on this server. That’s all we know.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 10:18:12 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 09:43:53 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMjECeE3WEA_RiE3_iv9QsaAScXtg3MY2UPJzju
> >https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPJRgdNvAHqNle1zGMACrRIlnw_TY10U3XX4KC5
> 404. That’s an error.
> The requested URL was not found on this server. That’s all we know.

What's it to you anyway?

On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 11:28:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 10:18:12 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 09:43:53 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMjECeE3WEA_RiE3_iv9QsaAScXtg3MY2UPJzju
>> >https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPJRgdNvAHqNle1zGMACrRIlnw_TY10U3XX4KC5
>> 404. That’s an error.
>> The requested URL was not found on this server. That’s all we know.

>What's it to you anyway?

1. It demonstrates that you don't verify the URL's you post are
functional.
2. If verifies that you don't know how to use Google Photos. However,
that's not a problem because you're still learning.
3. It's a courtesy notification that you've made a mistake that
should be corrected if you want people to see your photos.
4. It provides you for the attention that you crave.
5. It demonstrates that at least 2 people (Frank and I) read your
postings.
6. It provides you with something new to complain about.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 11:28:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 10:18:12 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 09:43:53 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMjECeE3WEA_RiE3_iv9QsaAScXtg3MY2UPJzju
>>>> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPJRgdNvAHqNle1zGMACrRIlnw_TY10U3XX4KC5
>>> 404. That’s an error.
>>> The requested URL was not found on this server. That’s all we know.
>
>> What's it to you anyway?
>
> 1. It demonstrates that you don't verify the URL's you post are
> functional.
> 2. If verifies that you don't know how to use Google Photos. However,
> that's not a problem because you're still learning.
> 3. It's a courtesy notification that you've made a mistake that
> should be corrected if you want people to see your photos.
> 4. It provides you for the attention that you crave.
> 5. It demonstrates that at least 2 people (Frank and I) read your
> postings.
> 6. It provides you with something new to complain about.
>
>

In Tom’s defence, I’m sure the URLs would work fine if you were logged onto
Google Photos as Tom Kunich. Posting pictures to non-binary newsgroups IS
a pain in the ass.

On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 12:52:08 PM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 11:28:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 10:18:12 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 09:43:53 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMjECeE3WEA_RiE3_iv9QsaAScXtg3MY2UPJzju
> >>>> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPJRgdNvAHqNle1zGMACrRIlnw_TY10U3XX4KC5
> >>> 404. That’s an error.
> >>> The requested URL was not found on this server. That’s all we know.
> >
> >> What's it to you anyway?
> >
> > 1. It demonstrates that you don't verify the URL's you post are
> > functional.
> > 2. If verifies that you don't know how to use Google Photos. However,
> > that's not a problem because you're still learning.
> > 3. It's a courtesy notification that you've made a mistake that
> > should be corrected if you want people to see your photos.
> > 4. It provides you for the attention that you crave.
> > 5. It demonstrates that at least 2 people (Frank and I) read your
> > postings.
> > 6. It provides you with something new to complain about.
> >
> >
> In Tom’s defence, I’m sure the URLs would work fine if you were logged onto
> Google Photos as Tom Kunich. Posting pictures to non-binary newsgroups IS
> a pain in the ass.

Damned if I can figure out how to post those pictures correctly. It took me an hour to get that one picture of my membership card to post and I notice that the people that are complaining never post any pictures themselves.

On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 1:44:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 12:52:08 PM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> > > On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 11:28:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 10:18:12 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 09:43:53 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > >>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMjECeE3WEA_RiE3_iv9QsaAScXtg3MY2UPJzju
> > >>>> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPJRgdNvAHqNle1zGMACrRIlnw_TY10U3XX4KC5
> > >>> 404. That’s an error.
> > >>> The requested URL was not found on this server. That’s all we know.
> > >
> > >> What's it to you anyway?
> > >
> > > 1. It demonstrates that you don't verify the URL's you post are
> > > functional.
> > > 2. If verifies that you don't know how to use Google Photos. However,
> > > that's not a problem because you're still learning.
> > > 3. It's a courtesy notification that you've made a mistake that
> > > should be corrected if you want people to see your photos.
> > > 4. It provides you for the attention that you crave.
> > > 5. It demonstrates that at least 2 people (Frank and I) read your
> > > postings.
> > > 6. It provides you with something new to complain about.
> > >
> > >
> > In Tom’s defence, I’m sure the URLs would work fine if you were logged onto
> > Google Photos as Tom Kunich. Posting pictures to non-binary newsgroups IS
> > a pain in the ass.
> Damned if I can figure out how to post those pictures correctly. It took me an hour to get that one picture of my membership card to post and I notice that the people that are complaining never post any pictures themselves.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vHbBL8XyPafCGr5F8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/gYZdmNhRGcMhXBBU7

Let's see if that works.

On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 11:58:44 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 11:28:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 10:18:12 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 09:43:53 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMjECeE3WEA_RiE3_iv9QsaAScXtg3MY2UPJzju
> >> >https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPJRgdNvAHqNle1zGMACrRIlnw_TY10U3XX4KC5
> >> 404. That’s an error.
> >> The requested URL was not found on this server. That’s all we know.
>
> >What's it to you anyway?
> 1. It demonstrates that you don't verify the URL's you post are
> functional.
> 2. If verifies that you don't know how to use Google Photos. However,
> that's not a problem because you're still learning.
> 3. It's a courtesy notification that you've made a mistake that
> should be corrected if you want people to see your photos.
> 4. It provides you for the attention that you crave.
> 5. It demonstrates that at least 2 people (Frank and I) read your
> postings.
> 6. It provides you with something new to complain about.

I will ask you again - why are you posting one a bicycle group when you don't ride a bicycle. Is it just as a courtesy to offend the other members?

On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 1:50:33 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 1:44:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 12:52:08 PM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > > Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 11:28:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > > > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 10:18:12 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 09:43:53 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > > >>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMjECeE3WEA_RiE3_iv9QsaAScXtg3MY2UPJzju
> > > >>>> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPJRgdNvAHqNle1zGMACrRIlnw_TY10U3XX4KC5
> > > >>> 404. That’s an error.
> > > >>> The requested URL was not found on this server. That’s all we know.
> > > >
> > > >> What's it to you anyway?
> > > >
> > > > 1. It demonstrates that you don't verify the URL's you post are
> > > > functional.
> > > > 2. If verifies that you don't know how to use Google Photos. However,
> > > > that's not a problem because you're still learning.
> > > > 3. It's a courtesy notification that you've made a mistake that
> > > > should be corrected if you want people to see your photos.
> > > > 4. It provides you for the attention that you crave.
> > > > 5. It demonstrates that at least 2 people (Frank and I) read your
> > > > postings.
> > > > 6. It provides you with something new to complain about.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > In Tom’s defence, I’m sure the URLs would work fine if you were logged onto
> > > Google Photos as Tom Kunich. Posting pictures to non-binary newsgroups IS
> > > a pain in the ass.
> > Damned if I can figure out how to post those pictures correctly. It took me an hour to get that one picture of my membership card to post and I notice that the people that are complaining never post any pictures themselves.
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/vHbBL8XyPafCGr5F8
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/gYZdmNhRGcMhXBBU7
>
> Let's see if that works.

It is now after 2:30 and the sun has finally come out. It must be that global warming I hear so much about from people that don't know anything about it. This last winter was the largest and deepest ice pack in the Arctic since the 70's - before the CO2 levels had started to rise. This present winter in the Antarctic has just recorded the coldest temperatures ever recorded.. Across the USA which is the only country to have a good long term weather record, there has been no records set of any value. One hot day in nowhere Texas does not qualify as anything.

It would be something if this was an exception to the rule, but it has been the total NORM for the last 30 years. How did Michael Mann manage to convince anyone that CO2 had any effect whatsoever on the climate? We do know and have email records of him and his team saying that since they weren't showing any warming that they should change the record to show it. That would be a laugh if a month or two later, NASA didn't do exactly that. But they and NOAA have started to get the word from real scientists and have reversed the phony "trend". It finally started getting through to them that they will be fired for their lies and no one in the entire world will touch them. Imagine going from top NOAA scientist to being unemployable. The worm has turned.

Today is nothing more than another cold day in a cold summer. Tomorrow will be just like today. Hopefully the present front will move through fast enough that we can get some descent summer weather this year.

Now get this - EVEN the EPA has stopped lying, they see a sharp turnabout on the political front and have returned to telling the truth - 6 or 7 hurricanes occur each year in the Atlantic and two on the average make landfall of some sort in the USA. This signals a sharp turn against the lies that the left has been perpetrating for the last 14 years.

I'm waiting for the sharp turnaround of the FBI when they realize that they are going to be cleaned out by a new government intending to tell the people the truth. Maybe the mess that Biden has gotten us into will turn out to be the signal to cut everyone that cooperated with the left out of government for good. John might be able to stop worrying that they will cut his military retirement just in time for his heart to stop beating.

On 7/6/2022 3:52 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 11:28:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 10:18:12 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 09:43:53 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMjECeE3WEA_RiE3_iv9QsaAScXtg3MY2UPJzju
>>>>> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPJRgdNvAHqNle1zGMACrRIlnw_TY10U3XX4KC5
>>>> 404. That’s an error.
>>>> The requested URL was not found on this server. That’s all we know.
>>
>>> What's it to you anyway?
>>
>> 1. It demonstrates that you don't verify the URL's you post are
>> functional.
>> 2. If verifies that you don't know how to use Google Photos. However,
>> that's not a problem because you're still learning.
>> 3. It's a courtesy notification that you've made a mistake that
>> should be corrected if you want people to see your photos.
>> 4. It provides you for the attention that you crave.
>> 5. It demonstrates that at least 2 people (Frank and I) read your
>> postings.
>> 6. It provides you with something new to complain about.
>>
>>
>
> In Tom’s defence, I’m sure the URLs would work fine if you were logged onto
> Google Photos as Tom Kunich.

And Tom would have known that, if only he were competent with internet
matters.

> Posting pictures to non-binary newsgroups IS
> a pain in the ass.

And yet SO many people here have managed to succeed! If only one person
regularly fails, what does that tell you about his intelligence and
competence?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 7/6/2022 4:44 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
>
> Damned if I can figure out how to post those pictures correctly.

We know, Tom. There are piles of things your can't figure out. Your
posts are evidence of many of them.

> It took me an hour to get that one picture of my membership card to post and I notice that the people that are complaining never post any pictures themselves.

???

I've posted many photos. Jeff has posted more. Andrew posts a lot of
them. Wolfgang does the same, Lou does the same. Hell, even Jute manages
from time to time.

You're the bottom of the class yet again.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 3:50:33 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 1:44:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 12:52:08 PM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > > Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 11:28:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > > > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 10:18:12 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 09:43:53 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > > >>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMjECeE3WEA_RiE3_iv9QsaAScXtg3MY2UPJzju
> > > >>>> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPJRgdNvAHqNle1zGMACrRIlnw_TY10U3XX4KC5
> > > >>> 404. That’s an error.
> > > >>> The requested URL was not found on this server. That’s all we know.
> > > >
> > > >> What's it to you anyway?
> > > >
> > > > 1. It demonstrates that you don't verify the URL's you post are
> > > > functional.
> > > > 2. If verifies that you don't know how to use Google Photos. However,
> > > > that's not a problem because you're still learning.
> > > > 3. It's a courtesy notification that you've made a mistake that
> > > > should be corrected if you want people to see your photos.
> > > > 4. It provides you for the attention that you crave.
> > > > 5. It demonstrates that at least 2 people (Frank and I) read your
> > > > postings.
> > > > 6. It provides you with something new to complain about.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > In Tom’s defence, I’m sure the URLs would work fine if you were logged onto
> > > Google Photos as Tom Kunich. Posting pictures to non-binary newsgroups IS
> > > a pain in the ass.
> > Damned if I can figure out how to post those pictures correctly. It took me an hour to get that one picture of my membership card to post and I notice that the people that are complaining never post any pictures themselves.
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/vHbBL8XyPafCGr5F8
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/gYZdmNhRGcMhXBBU7
>
> Let's see if that works.

Wow. Drought looks bad in California. Dead brown grass everywhere. Grass is green and ankle high here. Corn is head high already. But Tommy says there is no drought in California. Tommy says it rains every day and the water is too abundant.

On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 19:52:04 -0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
<ralph@invalid.com> wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 11:28:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 10:18:12 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 09:43:53 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMjECeE3WEA_RiE3_iv9QsaAScXtg3MY2UPJzju
>>>>> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPJRgdNvAHqNle1zGMACrRIlnw_TY10U3XX4KC5
>>>> 404. That?s an error.
>>>> The requested URL was not found on this server. That?s all we know.
>>
>>> What's it to you anyway?
>>
>> 1. It demonstrates that you don't verify the URL's you post are
>> functional.
>> 2. If verifies that you don't know how to use Google Photos. However,
>> that's not a problem because you're still learning.
>> 3. It's a courtesy notification that you've made a mistake that
>> should be corrected if you want people to see your photos.
>> 4. It provides you for the attention that you crave.
>> 5. It demonstrates that at least 2 people (Frank and I) read your
>> postings.
>> 6. It provides you with something new to complain about.

>In Tom’s defence, I’m sure the URLs would work fine if you were logged onto
>Google Photos as Tom Kunich. Posting pictures to non-binary newsgroups IS
>a pain in the ass.

True. However, I don't think that Tom would be willing to post his
Google login and password so that everyone could see his photos. Also,
he did NOT post any photos to the newsgroup. Those would need to go
to a newsgroup that allows binary attachments. I'm lazy and just post
them to my web site or using Google Photos.

What Tom had missed was to share the selected photos. Here's my
version of the instructions for sharing ONE photo:
1. Go thee unto: <https://photos.google.com>
2. Find the photo or photos you want to share with everyone.
3. Move the mouse to the upper-left corner of the photo and click the
check mark. The check mark will turn blue.
4. When you've selected everything you want to share, click the
"Share" icon in the upper right of the page.
5. Click on "Create Link" icon. Read what appears in the box and
then click the blue "Create Link" button.
6. Google will create and highlight a unique link for all the checked
photos. Copy this link to the clipboard. (ctrl-c on Windoze). Save
this link as it is difficult to recover.
7. Open a new browser window, paste the link in the URL box, and
display the photo in the browser.
8. Click the 3 vertical dots in the upper right of the window.
9. Select "Options"
10. Slide to the right (turn on) "Link sharing" which lets anyone with
the link see photos and people in this album.
11. Check the "Comments & likes. Let others respond" if you want
others add their comments to your photo.
12. To test if it works, logout of Google or switch to another Google
account. Go to the URL you previously saved and see if the photo
appears. If you get 404, you did something wrong.
13. If you want one URL to point to multiple photos, create a new
"Album", add the photos your want displayed, and then share the album
instead of the single photo.

I've been doing this for years, so I forgot what a PITA Google can
make things. As I recall, it took me many tries before I got it
working.

Also, adding a title and annotation to a photo is tricky.
1. Go thee unto: <https://photos.google.com>
2. Display a photo.
3. Select the "i" for info icon in upper right.
4. Add a title or notation on the "Add a description" line.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558