On 8/24/2022 8:17 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 6:46:47 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
>>> bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
>> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
>> clothes?
>
> Well, at least their nationality!
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>

I can't.

https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/522232_Kiss_Mix_Party_jpgf3917754c6fca5154f453cee2c694698

https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/a1db89deff3ef4b0271e5e1c1cfd266c

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/JABKG0/rio-de-janeiro-february-18-2017-young-brazilians-having-fun-at-a-carnival-JABKG0.jpg

https://cdn3.creativecirclemedia.com/liherald/original/1492543793_2dfb.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 8/24/2022 8:39 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 18:17:26 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 6:46:47 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>>> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
>>>> bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
>>> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
>>> clothes?
>>
>> Well, at least their nationality!
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> Well, to some extent it is probable that "foreigners" copy USian
> clothes. After "America" is seen as the home of the rich,
>
> But just the other day there was a news article about the Thai
> Government publishing some sort of admonishment to tourists to not
> wear skimpy (thong and two band aids) clothing as beach attire And
> Buddhist Temples that are tourist attractions all have notices about
> ladies wearing appropriate clothing.
>
> So, apparently USian attire isn't globally acceptable (:-)
>

We have elected leaders to set an example of proper decorum.
Senators, for example:

https://www.newsweek.com/tiara-mack-twerking-video-tiktok-rhode-island-1722084

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 6:50:54 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
> On 8/23/2022 12:49 PM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > On the first day of my ninth-grade wood-shop, the teacher told us points would be taken off our project if he didn't see measurements from both endpoints on the piece. For example - If a 6-inch dowel was to be cut from a piece of stock 36 inches long, We would have to show a 6-inch measurement from one end, then a 30-inch measurement from the other end. If the two marks were not aligned, you've already made a mistake.
> Yes, the mistake was assuming that the 36" stock was exactly 36" and
> thinking that that you could get a 6" piece by measuring 30" from one
> end of a 36" dowel.
>
> You never do such a thing in engineering drawings, you always reference
> measurements from one origin.

Yes, that's what I was trying to say.
And I was surprised with my shed project that 8 foot 2x4s can vary considerably in length. ( did make one big mistake with the shed project but not related to length of wood)

But there's another problem that sometimes bites the inexperienced.

You cannot cut a 6" piece and a 30" piece from the same dowel. You have to allow for the kerf.

I read an interesting book, might have been Measure Twice Cut Once by Norm Abram, where the author talks about his career in carpentry. Well written. But actually he says don't measure at all. You get two chances to screw up, when you measured what you needed, and when you measured to cut your wood. Lay your wood where it needs to go and mark it, cut to your mark.

On 8/25/2022 12:56 PM, Tim R wrote:
> On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 6:50:54 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
>> On 8/23/2022 12:49 PM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>> On the first day of my ninth-grade wood-shop, the teacher told us points would be taken off our project if he didn't see measurements from both endpoints on the piece. For example - If a 6-inch dowel was to be cut from a piece of stock 36 inches long, We would have to show a 6-inch measurement from one end, then a 30-inch measurement from the other end. If the two marks were not aligned, you've already made a mistake.
>> Yes, the mistake was assuming that the 36" stock was exactly 36" and
>> thinking that that you could get a 6" piece by measuring 30" from one
>> end of a 36" dowel.
>>
>> You never do such a thing in engineering drawings, you always reference
>> measurements from one origin.
>
> Yes, that's what I was trying to say.
> And I was surprised with my shed project that 8 foot 2x4s can vary considerably in length. ( did make one big mistake with the shed project but not related to length of wood)
>
> But there's another problem that sometimes bites the inexperienced.
>
> You cannot cut a 6" piece and a 30" piece from the same dowel. You have to allow for the kerf.
>
> I read an interesting book, might have been Measure Twice Cut Once by Norm Abram, where the author talks about his career in carpentry. Well written. But actually he says don't measure at all. You get two chances to screw up, when you measured what you needed, and when you measured to cut your wood. Lay your wood where it needs to go and mark it, cut to your mark.
>

+1 on direct measure.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 8/25/2022 1:56 PM, Tim R wrote:
> On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 6:50:54 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
>> On 8/23/2022 12:49 PM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>> On the first day of my ninth-grade wood-shop, the teacher told us points would be taken off our project if he didn't see measurements from both endpoints on the piece. For example - If a 6-inch dowel was to be cut from a piece of stock 36 inches long, We would have to show a 6-inch measurement from one end, then a 30-inch measurement from the other end. If the two marks were not aligned, you've already made a mistake.
>> Yes, the mistake was assuming that the 36" stock was exactly 36" and
>> thinking that that you could get a 6" piece by measuring 30" from one
>> end of a 36" dowel.
>>
>> You never do such a thing in engineering drawings, you always reference
>> measurements from one origin.
>
> Yes, that's what I was trying to say.
> And I was surprised with my shed project that 8 foot 2x4s can vary considerably in length. ( did make one big mistake with the shed project but not related to length of wood)
>
> But there's another problem that sometimes bites the inexperienced.
>
> You cannot cut a 6" piece and a 30" piece from the same dowel. You have to allow for the kerf.
>
> I read an interesting book, might have been Measure Twice Cut Once by Norm Abram, where the author talks about his career in carpentry. Well written. But actually he says don't measure at all. You get two chances to screw up, when you measured what you needed, and when you measured to cut your wood. Lay your wood where it needs to go and mark it, cut to your mark.

Sometimes that may make sense, sometimes not.

The last large wood structure I designed was a big treehouse - or more
accurately a tree platform with railing all around - probably 8' x 10'
or so. The build was a project for the extended family. Anyway, I worked
out exact lengths for all the various cuts. Almost all of the cutting
was done at ground level, then hoisted upwards for installation.

The platform frame was assembled on the ground and hoisted up. Railings
were done as multiple repeated cuts (for the verticals), put together as
sub-assemblies, then lifted and clamped and screwed in place. Decking
was cut at ground level and installed at height.

We finished the project in one day. If we'd cut and assembled stick by
stick, we might still be at it.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 7:55:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/24/2022 8:17 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 6:46:47 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> >> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
> >>> bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
> >> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
> >> clothes?
> >
> > Well, at least their nationality!
> >
> > - Frank Krygowski
> >
> I can't.
>
> https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/522232_Kiss_Mix_Party_jpgf3917754c6fca5154f453cee2c694698
>
> https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/a1db89deff3ef4b0271e5e1c1cfd266c
>
> https://c8.alamy.com/comp/JABKG0/rio-de-janeiro-february-18-2017-young-brazilians-having-fun-at-a-carnival-JABKG0.jpg
>
> https://cdn3.creativecirclemedia.com/liherald/original/1492543793_2dfb.jpg

Imagine for just one second that Slow Johnny believes that you can snap your fingers and command people what style they should like or wear. The sheer ignorance of people like him is simply too much.

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 7:57:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/24/2022 8:39 PM, John B. wrote:
> > On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 18:17:26 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> > <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 6:46:47 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> >>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
> >>>> bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
> >>> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
> >>> clothes?
> >>
> >> Well, at least their nationality!
> >>
> >> - Frank Krygowski
> >
> > Well, to some extent it is probable that "foreigners" copy USian
> > clothes. After "America" is seen as the home of the rich,
> >
> > But just the other day there was a news article about the Thai
> > Government publishing some sort of admonishment to tourists to not
> > wear skimpy (thong and two band aids) clothing as beach attire And
> > Buddhist Temples that are tourist attractions all have notices about
> > ladies wearing appropriate clothing.
> >
> > So, apparently USian attire isn't globally acceptable (:-)
> >
> We have elected leaders to set an example of proper decorum.
> Senators, for example:
>
> https://www.newsweek.com/tiara-mack-twerking-video-tiktok-rhode-island-1722084

Why they are standing in line to reelect that one.

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 10:56:50 AM UTC-7, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 6:50:54 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
> > On 8/23/2022 12:49 PM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> > > On the first day of my ninth-grade wood-shop, the teacher told us points would be taken off our project if he didn't see measurements from both endpoints on the piece. For example - If a 6-inch dowel was to be cut from a piece of stock 36 inches long, We would have to show a 6-inch measurement from one end, then a 30-inch measurement from the other end. If the two marks were not aligned, you've already made a mistake.
> > Yes, the mistake was assuming that the 36" stock was exactly 36" and
> > thinking that that you could get a 6" piece by measuring 30" from one
> > end of a 36" dowel.
> >
> > You never do such a thing in engineering drawings, you always reference
> > measurements from one origin.
> Yes, that's what I was trying to say.
> And I was surprised with my shed project that 8 foot 2x4s can vary considerably in length. ( did make one big mistake with the shed project but not related to length of wood)
>
> But there's another problem that sometimes bites the inexperienced.
>
> You cannot cut a 6" piece and a 30" piece from the same dowel. You have to allow for the kerf.
>
> I read an interesting book, might have been Measure Twice Cut Once by Norm Abram, where the author talks about his career in carpentry. Well written.. But actually he says don't measure at all. You get two chances to screw up, when you measured what you needed, and when you measured to cut your wood. Lay your wood where it needs to go and mark it, cut to your mark.
Well Tim, it's plain that you're not a woodworker. Speaking of which - I just bought a set of Scirocco wheels from one yesterday evening. Just follow the sawdust.

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:17:10 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/25/2022 12:56 PM, Tim R wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 6:50:54 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
> >> On 8/23/2022 12:49 PM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>> On the first day of my ninth-grade wood-shop, the teacher told us points would be taken off our project if he didn't see measurements from both endpoints on the piece. For example - If a 6-inch dowel was to be cut from a piece of stock 36 inches long, We would have to show a 6-inch measurement from one end, then a 30-inch measurement from the other end. If the two marks were not aligned, you've already made a mistake.
> >> Yes, the mistake was assuming that the 36" stock was exactly 36" and
> >> thinking that that you could get a 6" piece by measuring 30" from one
> >> end of a 36" dowel.
> >>
> >> You never do such a thing in engineering drawings, you always reference
> >> measurements from one origin.
> >
> > Yes, that's what I was trying to say.
> > And I was surprised with my shed project that 8 foot 2x4s can vary considerably in length. ( did make one big mistake with the shed project but not related to length of wood)
> >
> > But there's another problem that sometimes bites the inexperienced.
> >
> > You cannot cut a 6" piece and a 30" piece from the same dowel. You have to allow for the kerf.
> >
> > I read an interesting book, might have been Measure Twice Cut Once by Norm Abram, where the author talks about his career in carpentry. Well written. But actually he says don't measure at all. You get two chances to screw up, when you measured what you needed, and when you measured to cut your wood. Lay your wood where it needs to go and mark it, cut to your mark.
> >
> +1 on direct measure.

When you're building things correctly, they are square and don't need direct measure. Speaking of which. My ride today set me at 4,000 km and 14,000 meters of climbing. Metric sounds so much larger.

On 8/25/2022 10:56 AM, Tim R wrote:

<snip>

> I read an interesting book, might have been Measure Twice Cut Once by Norm Abram, where the author talks about his career in carpentry. Well written. But actually he says don't measure at all. You get two chances to screw up, when you measured what you needed, and when you measured to cut your wood. Lay your wood where it needs to go and mark it, cut to your mark.

Exactly. I recently built a backyard trellis for plants to climb. The
precise lengths of the pieces were not vitally important, but they did
need to be same size. I cut one board and then used that as template for
the other board. As it came together I modified the project
appropriately to fit the landscape.

When it was done, and put up, my wife told me what she really wanted so
I took it all down and did the appropriate additions and modifications.

On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 15:09:48 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 7:55:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 8/24/2022 8:17 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 6:46:47 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
>> >>> bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
>> >> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
>> >> clothes?
>> >
>> > Well, at least their nationality!
>> >
>> > - Frank Krygowski
>> >
>> I can't.
>>
>> https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/522232_Kiss_Mix_Party_jpgf3917754c6fca5154f453cee2c694698
>>
>> https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/a1db89deff3ef4b0271e5e1c1cfd266c
>>
>> https://c8.alamy.com/comp/JABKG0/rio-de-janeiro-february-18-2017-young-brazilians-having-fun-at-a-carnival-JABKG0.jpg
>>
>> https://cdn3.creativecirclemedia.com/liherald/original/1492543793_2dfb.jpg
>
>Imagine for just one second that Slow Johnny believes that you can snap your fingers and command people what style they should like or wear. The sheer ignorance of people like him is simply too much.

Jesus Wept!
Tommy you must be the most stupid person in California, or maybe the
world.

I commented on a time when you could identify the "Gentry" by the
clothes 'they" wore and you start rabbeting on about forcing someone
to wear certain clothes.

The "Good Book" tells us that "none are so blind as those who refuse
to see" and I'm going to modify that a bit and apply it to you, "There
are none so stupid as those that refuse to think".
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 10:57:13 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/24/2022 8:39 PM, John B. wrote:
> > On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 18:17:26 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> > <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 6:46:47 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> >>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
> >>>> bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
> >>> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
> >>> clothes?
> >>
> >> Well, at least their nationality!
> >>
> >> - Frank Krygowski
> >
> > Well, to some extent it is probable that "foreigners" copy USian
> > clothes. After "America" is seen as the home of the rich,
> >
> > But just the other day there was a news article about the Thai
> > Government publishing some sort of admonishment to tourists to not
> > wear skimpy (thong and two band aids) clothing as beach attire And
> > Buddhist Temples that are tourist attractions all have notices about
> > ladies wearing appropriate clothing.
> >
> > So, apparently USian attire isn't globally acceptable (:-)
> >
> We have elected leaders to set an example of proper decorum.
> Senators, for example:
>
> https://www.newsweek.com/tiara-mack-twerking-video-tiktok-rhode-island-1722084
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I have absolutely no problem with this, and it has absolutely nothing to do with her political affiliation.

On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 09:57:09 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 8/24/2022 8:39 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 18:17:26 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 6:46:47 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
>>>>> bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
>>>> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
>>>> clothes?
>>>
>>> Well, at least their nationality!
>>>
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>> Well, to some extent it is probable that "foreigners" copy USian
>> clothes. After "America" is seen as the home of the rich,
>>
>> But just the other day there was a news article about the Thai
>> Government publishing some sort of admonishment to tourists to not
>> wear skimpy (thong and two band aids) clothing as beach attire And
>> Buddhist Temples that are tourist attractions all have notices about
>> ladies wearing appropriate clothing.
>>
>> So, apparently USian attire isn't globally acceptable (:-)
>>
>
>We have elected leaders to set an example of proper decorum.
>Senators, for example:
>
>https://www.newsweek.com/tiara-mack-twerking-video-tiktok-rhode-island-1722084

Well, somebody did comment that "in a democracy the people end up with
the leaders that they deserve", or words to that extent. Or maybe, to
rephrase that, "You elected them.... now be happy!".
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:57:13 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/24/2022 8:39 PM, John B. wrote:
> > On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 18:17:26 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> > <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 6:46:47 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> >>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
> >>>> bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
> >>> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
> >>> clothes?
> >>
> >> Well, at least their nationality!
> >>
> >> - Frank Krygowski
> >
> > Well, to some extent it is probable that "foreigners" copy USian
> > clothes. After "America" is seen as the home of the rich,
> >
> > But just the other day there was a news article about the Thai
> > Government publishing some sort of admonishment to tourists to not
> > wear skimpy (thong and two band aids) clothing as beach attire And
> > Buddhist Temples that are tourist attractions all have notices about
> > ladies wearing appropriate clothing.
> >
> > So, apparently USian attire isn't globally acceptable (:-)
> >
> We have elected leaders to set an example of proper decorum.
> Senators, for example:
>
> https://www.newsweek.com/tiara-mack-twerking-video-tiktok-rhode-island-1722084
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Can't say I am in favor of the woman in the picture showing her large almost bare rump upside down. However, is there more or less decorum with that picture than the following?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/06/republicans-christmas-photo-thomas-massie-trump
The two boys on the left and the girl in the middle are clearly not old enough to own guns.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/matt-gaetz-joel-greenberg-letter-sex-underage-girl-1163449/
Matt Gaetz paying for sex with a 17 year old girl and transporting her across state lines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOb1AXX5hsU
Super Bowl ad showing you are shooting with a gun the President, Speaker of the House, and your Senate candidate?

Sex/rape of a minor, shooting people, showing machine guns, compared to showing a butt? Which is better or worse?

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 12:56:50 PM UTC-5, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 6:50:54 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
> > On 8/23/2022 12:49 PM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> > > On the first day of my ninth-grade wood-shop, the teacher told us points would be taken off our project if he didn't see measurements from both endpoints on the piece. For example - If a 6-inch dowel was to be cut from a piece of stock 36 inches long, We would have to show a 6-inch measurement from one end, then a 30-inch measurement from the other end. If the two marks were not aligned, you've already made a mistake.
> > Yes, the mistake was assuming that the 36" stock was exactly 36" and
> > thinking that that you could get a 6" piece by measuring 30" from one
> > end of a 36" dowel.
> >
> > You never do such a thing in engineering drawings, you always reference
> > measurements from one origin.
> Yes, that's what I was trying to say.
> And I was surprised with my shed project that 8 foot 2x4s can vary considerably in length. ( did make one big mistake with the shed project but not related to length of wood)
>
> But there's another problem that sometimes bites the inexperienced.
>
> You cannot cut a 6" piece and a 30" piece from the same dowel. You have to allow for the kerf.
>
> I read an interesting book, might have been Measure Twice Cut Once by Norm Abram, where the author talks about his career in carpentry. Well written.. But actually he says don't measure at all. You get two chances to screw up, when you measured what you needed, and when you measured to cut your wood. Lay your wood where it needs to go and mark it, cut to your mark.

I suppose that works well for on the sight carpentry. But when you are cutting 2x4 studs to assemble a wall on the deck to then raise into place, you probably measure each stud first. You do not somehow tack/nail a top and bottom plate into place and then cut every stud by pressing it against the top and bottom plates and cut to fit. And what about when cutting parts for a table. Don't you measure and cut all the pieces ahead of time before assembling the table? I'm pretty sure Norm did measure and mark and cut all of his pieces first when he was building furniture pieces on his show. Maybe he did it a bit differently on his carpentry show.

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:09:50 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 7:55:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 8/24/2022 8:17 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 6:46:47 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> > >> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> > >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
> > >>> bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
> > >> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
> > >> clothes?
> > >
> > > Well, at least their nationality!
> > >
> > > - Frank Krygowski
> > >
> > I can't.
> >
> > https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/522232_Kiss_Mix_Party_jpgf3917754c6fca5154f453cee2c694698
> >
> > https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/a1db89deff3ef4b0271e5e1c1cfd266c
> >
> > https://c8.alamy.com/comp/JABKG0/rio-de-janeiro-february-18-2017-young-brazilians-having-fun-at-a-carnival-JABKG0.jpg
> >
> > https://cdn3.creativecirclemedia.com/liherald/original/1492543793_2dfb.jpg
> Imagine for just one second that Slow Johnny believes that you can snap your fingers and command people what style they should like or wear. The sheer ignorance of people like him is simply too much.

Yet we have Marjorie saying the USA is a Christian Nationalist country. And many of her political party agreeing. So its OK to tell people exactly which religion they must follow. But not OK to tell people which clothes they should wear? Tommy, do you know that some, many, schools, private AND public, which tell the students what clothes are acceptable to wear to school? Heck, when I attended school there were rules about which clothes were acceptable at school. 40 years ago.

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:15:16 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 10:56:50 AM UTC-7, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 6:50:54 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
> > > On 8/23/2022 12:49 PM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > > > On the first day of my ninth-grade wood-shop, the teacher told us points would be taken off our project if he didn't see measurements from both endpoints on the piece. For example - If a 6-inch dowel was to be cut from a piece of stock 36 inches long, We would have to show a 6-inch measurement from one end, then a 30-inch measurement from the other end. If the two marks were not aligned, you've already made a mistake.
> > > Yes, the mistake was assuming that the 36" stock was exactly 36" and
> > > thinking that that you could get a 6" piece by measuring 30" from one
> > > end of a 36" dowel.
> > >
> > > You never do such a thing in engineering drawings, you always reference
> > > measurements from one origin.
> > Yes, that's what I was trying to say.
> > And I was surprised with my shed project that 8 foot 2x4s can vary considerably in length. ( did make one big mistake with the shed project but not related to length of wood)
> >
> > But there's another problem that sometimes bites the inexperienced.
> >
> > You cannot cut a 6" piece and a 30" piece from the same dowel. You have to allow for the kerf.
> >
> > I read an interesting book, might have been Measure Twice Cut Once by Norm Abram, where the author talks about his career in carpentry. Well written. But actually he says don't measure at all. You get two chances to screw up, when you measured what you needed, and when you measured to cut your wood. Lay your wood where it needs to go and mark it, cut to your mark.
> Well Tim, it's plain that you're not a woodworker.

Its also very very very clear you are also not a woodworker Tommy.

> Speaking of which - I just bought a set of Scirocco wheels from one yesterday evening. Just follow the sawdust.

William Crowell <retroguybilly@gmail.com> writes:

> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On 8/24/2022 1:29 AM, John B. wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Remember that we don't wear all those heavy clothes y'all do. My wife
>> >> and I live, most of the time, in a small country town and the normal
>> >> male apparel is a "tee" shirt and a pair of shorts. The ladies, of
>> >> course wear a bit more but way out in the remote country villages the
>> >> really old ladies didn't wear no top to their dresses at all.
>> >
>> >One of my regrets about the modern world is that casual American-style
>> >clothing now seems to be almost universal. I remember visiting my
>> >maternal grandather's tiny, remote village in Poland and meeting a guy
>> >wearing an "I [heart] NY" T-shirt.
>> >
>> >ISTM that 150 years ago, wardrobes varied not only country to country,
>> >but sometimes over much smaller distances. Now the entire world seems to
>> >be blue jeans and shirts, with minor variations depending on whether a
>> >person pretends to be "country" (boots and a fake cowboy hat), "upper
>> >middle class" (golf shirts featuring an alligator), "Black rapper" (the
>> >jeans will be low enough to show underwear) etc. Women have more
>> >variation, but that seems to be a constant churning, hoping to look
>> >unique but not too unique.
>> >
>> >Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
>> >bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
>> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
>> clothes?
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
> What I think is funny, John, is how until maybe the 1920s or 1930s,
> men would wear frock coats to prove they were "gentlemen". Even the
> blacksmith, car mechanic or gas station employee would wear one. It
> didn't matter if it was all worn out, stretched out of shape,
> grease-stained or dirty and the pockets were all ripped out; if you
> wore a frock coat in any condition, you were a gentleman! Here's a
> picture of gas station employees wearing their frock coats in about
> 1920:
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cgQF73_30rgMezwveijW6da_maEICSkw/view?usp=sharing

We forget just how expensive clothes were not all that long ago. Read
David Copperfield selling his clothes, piece by piece. How many dinners
could you get for the stuff you have on? A few items of clothing had to
cover all situations, making or buying something "casual" was just not
done. Old, worn out clothing was used until it fell apart, after much
darning and repair.

Of course by the 1920s cloth was made by machine, and clothing was much
cheaper than it was in Dicken's day, but it was not like today, where
cheesy clothing is literally disposable.

Go back further, to the days of hand spinning, and cloth was a huge
investment of human (mostly distaff side) labor.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> writes:

> On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:17:10 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 8/25/2022 12:56 PM, Tim R wrote:
>> > On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 6:50:54 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
>> >> On 8/23/2022 12:49 PM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> <snip>
>> >>> On the first day of my ninth-grade wood-shop, the teacher told
>> >>> us points would be taken off our project if he didn't see
>> >>> measurements from both endpoints on the piece. For example - If
>> >>> a 6-inch dowel was to be cut from a piece of stock 36 inches
>> >>> long, We would have to show a 6-inch measurement from one end,
>> >>> then a 30-inch measurement from the other end. If the two marks
>> >>> were not aligned, you've already made a mistake.
>> >> Yes, the mistake was assuming that the 36" stock was exactly 36" and
>> >> thinking that that you could get a 6" piece by measuring 30" from one
>> >> end of a 36" dowel.
>> >>
>> >> You never do such a thing in engineering drawings, you always reference
>> >> measurements from one origin.
>> >
>> > Yes, that's what I was trying to say.
>> > And I was surprised with my shed project that 8 foot 2x4s can vary
>> > considerably in length. ( did make one big mistake with the shed
>> > project but not related to length of wood)
>> >
>> > But there's another problem that sometimes bites the inexperienced.
>> >
>> > You cannot cut a 6" piece and a 30" piece from the same dowel. You have to allow for the kerf.
>> >
>> > I read an interesting book, might have been Measure Twice Cut Once
>> > by Norm Abram, where the author talks about his career in
>> > carpentry. Well written. But actually he says don't measure at
>> > all. You get two chances to screw up, when you measured what you
>> > needed, and when you measured to cut your wood. Lay your wood
>> > where it needs to go and mark it, cut to your mark.
>> >
>> +1 on direct measure.
>
> When you're building things correctly, they are square and don't need
> direct measure. Speaking of which. My ride today set me at 4,000 km

Maybe, but from experience I can say that being short by 1.00" is a real
bummer.

> Speaking of which. My ride today set me at 4,000 km
> and 14,000 meters of climbing. Metric sounds so much larger.

On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 03:35:53 -0700 (PDT), William Crowell
<retroguybilly@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On 8/24/2022 1:29 AM, John B. wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Remember that we don't wear all those heavy clothes y'all do. My wife
>> >> and I live, most of the time, in a small country town and the normal
>> >> male apparel is a "tee" shirt and a pair of shorts. The ladies, of
>> >> course wear a bit more but way out in the remote country villages the
>> >> really old ladies didn't wear no top to their dresses at all.
>> >
>> >One of my regrets about the modern world is that casual American-style
>> >clothing now seems to be almost universal. I remember visiting my
>> >maternal grandather's tiny, remote village in Poland and meeting a guy
>> >wearing an "I [heart] NY" T-shirt.
>> >
>> >ISTM that 150 years ago, wardrobes varied not only country to country,
>> >but sometimes over much smaller distances. Now the entire world seems to
>> >be blue jeans and shirts, with minor variations depending on whether a
>> >person pretends to be "country" (boots and a fake cowboy hat), "upper
>> >middle class" (golf shirts featuring an alligator), "Black rapper" (the
>> >jeans will be low enough to show underwear) etc. Women have more
>> >variation, but that seems to be a constant churning, hoping to look
>> >unique but not too unique.
>> >
>> >Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
>> >bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
>> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
>> clothes?
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
>What I think is funny, John, is how until maybe the 1920s or 1930s, men
would wear frock coats to prove they were "gentlemen". Even the
blacksmith, car mechanic or gas station employee would wear one. It
didn't matter if it was all worn out, stretched out of shape,
grease-stained or dirty and the pockets were all ripped out; if you
wore a frock coat in any condition, you were a gentleman! Here's a
picture of gas station employees wearing their frock coats in about
1920:
>
>https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cgQF73_30rgMezwveijW6da_maEICSkw/view?usp=sharing

Could. But did they? While I've never actually seen a working
blacksmith shop I have seen farriers which do some of the same jobs as
blacksmith's used to do and they don't wear frock coats, nor did/do
carpenters, ditch diggers, bulldozer drivers and others who actually
"worked" for a living.

And yes, I can remember back to the 1930's, well the very late '30's
and early '40's and for sure "working folk" weren't togged out in high
collars and top hats.

Your reference photo seems to show a relatively wealthy chap, high
collar, top hat, suit, etc., doing something at a gas pump.
Try
https://tinyurl.com/2s3wj9cu
https://tinyurl.com/24s33xk5
for real "working men".
--
Cheers,

John B.

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> writes:

> On 8/24/2022 8:17 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 6:46:47 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>>> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
>>>> bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
>>> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
>>> clothes?
>>
>> Well, at least their nationality!
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>
> I can't.
>
> https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/522232_Kiss_Mix_Party_jpgf3917754c6fca5154f453cee2c694698
>
> https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/a1db89deff3ef4b0271e5e1c1cfd266c

I note the distinctive Sillitoe Tartan caps
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sillitoe_tartan), which makes me think
this one is in a country at least formerly dominated by Merry Old.
Still says "two tone" to me.

> https://c8.alamy.com/comp/JABKG0/rio-de-janeiro-february-18-2017-young-brazilians-having-fun-at-a-carnival-JABKG0.jpg
>
> https://cdn3.creativecirclemedia.com/liherald/original/1492543793_2dfb.jpg

--

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 4:53:25 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> William Crowell <retrog...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> >> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 8/24/2022 1:29 AM, John B. wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Remember that we don't wear all those heavy clothes y'all do. My wife
> >> >> and I live, most of the time, in a small country town and the normal
> >> >> male apparel is a "tee" shirt and a pair of shorts. The ladies, of
> >> >> course wear a bit more but way out in the remote country villages the
> >> >> really old ladies didn't wear no top to their dresses at all.
> >> >
> >> >One of my regrets about the modern world is that casual American-style
> >> >clothing now seems to be almost universal. I remember visiting my
> >> >maternal grandather's tiny, remote village in Poland and meeting a guy
> >> >wearing an "I [heart] NY" T-shirt.
> >> >
> >> >ISTM that 150 years ago, wardrobes varied not only country to country,
> >> >but sometimes over much smaller distances. Now the entire world seems to
> >> >be blue jeans and shirts, with minor variations depending on whether a
> >> >person pretends to be "country" (boots and a fake cowboy hat), "upper
> >> >middle class" (golf shirts featuring an alligator), "Black rapper" (the
> >> >jeans will be low enough to show underwear) etc. Women have more
> >> >variation, but that seems to be a constant churning, hoping to look
> >> >unique but not too unique.
> >> >
> >> >Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
> >> >bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
> >> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
> >> clothes?
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> John B.
> > What I think is funny, John, is how until maybe the 1920s or 1930s,
> > men would wear frock coats to prove they were "gentlemen". Even the
> > blacksmith, car mechanic or gas station employee would wear one. It
> > didn't matter if it was all worn out, stretched out of shape,
> > grease-stained or dirty and the pockets were all ripped out; if you
> > wore a frock coat in any condition, you were a gentleman! Here's a
> > picture of gas station employees wearing their frock coats in about
> > 1920:
> >
> > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cgQF73_30rgMezwveijW6da_maEICSkw/view?usp=sharing
> We forget just how expensive clothes were not all that long ago. Read
> David Copperfield selling his clothes, piece by piece. How many dinners
> could you get for the stuff you have on? A few items of clothing had to
> cover all situations, making or buying something "casual" was just not
> done. Old, worn out clothing was used until it fell apart, after much
> darning and repair.
>
> Of course by the 1920s cloth was made by machine, and clothing was much
> cheaper than it was in Dicken's day, but it was not like today, where
> cheesy clothing is literally disposable.
>
> Go back further, to the days of hand spinning, and cloth was a huge
> investment of human (mostly distaff side) labor.

Because people made so little money this was not style per se but clothing to keep you alive through the winters in Europe or the Eastern US Wearing a frock coat wasn't so much style as flaunting wealth which then became style. My grandfather wore suits which meant a shirt, pants and a jacket. Being in California he had no need nor money for anything else. And he only had the one suit and he was buried in it.

People don't seem to appreciate just how rich people today are. And they are all filled to the neck with greed for the money of someone else - College Tuition "forgiveness" I should pay for their tuition. The four stepchildren have all paid for their own tuition including the son and second daughter who are both working on their PhD's. The boy as an aerospace engineer and the daughter in some sort of medical field. The other two have become successful with barely a bachelors.

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:02:05 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> writes:
>
> > On 8/24/2022 8:17 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 6:46:47 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> >>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
> >>>> bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
> >>> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
> >>> clothes?
> >>
> >> Well, at least their nationality!
> >>
> >> - Frank Krygowski
> >>
> >
> > I can't.
> >
> > https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/522232_Kiss_Mix_Party_jpgf3917754c6fca5154f453cee2c694698
> >
> > https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/a1db89deff3ef4b0271e5e1c1cfd266c
> I note the distinctive Sillitoe Tartan caps
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sillitoe_tartan), which makes me think
> this one is in a country at least formerly dominated by Merry Old.
> Still says "two tone" to me.
> > https://c8.alamy.com/comp/JABKG0/rio-de-janeiro-february-18-2017-young-brazilians-having-fun-at-a-carnival-JABKG0.jpg
> >
> > https://cdn3.creativecirclemedia.com/liherald/original/1492543793_2dfb.jpg

As you can see, Slow Johnny thinks that you can order people to wear something as if it were a uniform. "Let's bring back" LET US? who is us johnny?

The case of Sillitoe is precisely that - a uniform so that you can recogniz4e emergency services.

On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 16:44:25 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:09:50 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 7:55:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> > On 8/24/2022 8:17 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > > On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 6:46:47 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>> > >> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> > >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
>> > >>> bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
>> > >> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
>> > >> clothes?
>> > >
>> > > Well, at least their nationality!
>> > >
>> > > - Frank Krygowski
>> > >
>> > I can't.
>> >
>> > https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/522232_Kiss_Mix_Party_jpgf3917754c6fca5154f453cee2c694698
>> >
>> > https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/a1db89deff3ef4b0271e5e1c1cfd266c
>> >
>> > https://c8.alamy.com/comp/JABKG0/rio-de-janeiro-february-18-2017-young-brazilians-having-fun-at-a-carnival-JABKG0.jpg
>> >
>> > https://cdn3.creativecirclemedia.com/liherald/original/1492543793_2dfb.jpg
>> Imagine for just one second that Slow Johnny believes that you can snap your fingers and command people what style they should like or wear. The sheer ignorance of people like him is simply too much.
>
>Yet we have Marjorie saying the USA is a Christian Nationalist country. And many of her political party agreeing. So its OK to tell people exactly which religion they must follow. But not OK to tell people which clothes they should wear? Tommy, do you know that some, many, schools, private AND public, which tell the students what clothes are acceptable to wear to school? Heck, when I attended school there were rules about which clothes were acceptable at school. 40 years ago.

One of my ploys to avoid school was to take my shoes off, normal
attire for kids in the summers out in the country, and arrive at
school barefooted whereupon the teacher would send me home. I thought
I was being quite innovative until the teacher sent a letter to my
mother saying something about, "if you can't afford shoes for your
children...." which ended with me in one of those, "You just wait
'till your father gets home!" situations
Ah well, as Robby Burns said, "The best laid schemes o’ mice an’ men.
Gang aft a-gley.”
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 19:53:22 -0400, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:

>William Crowell <retroguybilly@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>>> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 11:26:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> >On 8/24/2022 1:29 AM, John B. wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Remember that we don't wear all those heavy clothes y'all do. My wife
>>> >> and I live, most of the time, in a small country town and the normal
>>> >> male apparel is a "tee" shirt and a pair of shorts. The ladies, of
>>> >> course wear a bit more but way out in the remote country villages the
>>> >> really old ladies didn't wear no top to their dresses at all.
>>> >
>>> >One of my regrets about the modern world is that casual American-style
>>> >clothing now seems to be almost universal. I remember visiting my
>>> >maternal grandather's tiny, remote village in Poland and meeting a guy
>>> >wearing an "I [heart] NY" T-shirt.
>>> >
>>> >ISTM that 150 years ago, wardrobes varied not only country to country,
>>> >but sometimes over much smaller distances. Now the entire world seems to
>>> >be blue jeans and shirts, with minor variations depending on whether a
>>> >person pretends to be "country" (boots and a fake cowboy hat), "upper
>>> >middle class" (golf shirts featuring an alligator), "Black rapper" (the
>>> >jeans will be low enough to show underwear) etc. Women have more
>>> >variation, but that seems to be a constant churning, hoping to look
>>> >unique but not too unique.
>>> >
>>> >Let's bring back kaftans, djellabas, Gorale styles, lederhosen and for
>>> >bicycling, proper plus-twos and plus-fours.
>>> You mean, when one could tell a gentleman, or lady, from their
>>> clothes?
>>> --
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> John B.
>> What I think is funny, John, is how until maybe the 1920s or 1930s,
>> men would wear frock coats to prove they were "gentlemen". Even the
>> blacksmith, car mechanic or gas station employee would wear one. It
>> didn't matter if it was all worn out, stretched out of shape,
>> grease-stained or dirty and the pockets were all ripped out; if you
>> wore a frock coat in any condition, you were a gentleman! Here's a
>> picture of gas station employees wearing their frock coats in about
>> 1920:
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cgQF73_30rgMezwveijW6da_maEICSkw/view?usp=sharing
>
>We forget just how expensive clothes were not all that long ago. Read
>David Copperfield selling his clothes, piece by piece. How many dinners
>could you get for the stuff you have on? A few items of clothing had to
>cover all situations, making or buying something "casual" was just not
>done. Old, worn out clothing was used until it fell apart, after much
>darning and repair.
>
>Of course by the 1920s cloth was made by machine, and clothing was much
>cheaper than it was in Dicken's day, but it was not like today, where
>cheesy clothing is literally disposable.
>
>Go back further, to the days of hand spinning, and cloth was a huge
>investment of human (mostly distaff side) labor.

You don't have to go all that way back in time. My mother used to knit
sweaters for the family and after "us kids were in school" she worked
as a 4H Club Agent and one of the thing that 4H girls learned was how
to make clothes, cooking and other womanly practices.
--
Cheers,

John B.