I noticed my Vitoria Zafiro was down to the cords in a couple
spots....time to overcome my usual "stretch the tire change"
cheapness and replace it.

I took my spare tire off its holder in the garage: A Continental
Ridge Tour, 80 psi maximum pressure. 27x 1-1/4. 27"...just as
God intended.
It's getting mighty hard to find a variety of 27" tires these
days.

I've tried Pasela, but found the sidewall to be too thin and
supple. I've liked Micheleins when I could find them.
Continentals are a good, if expensive, stand by so far.

I've seen a Cheng Shen (sp?) tire but was quite put off by the
feel of the thing...it's a dense, waxy feel vs. the suppleness
of the Zafiro.

Well, this Ridge Tour feels like a Cheng Shen..Hmm. It's made
in India, not Germany, I was kind of expecting Thailand or
Malaysia, but, anyway. It's thick and "waxy", not thin and
rubbery.

I had a difficult time putting it on. I'd get one bead on, then
when I flipped it over to work on the other side, it'd pop the
first side back off.
I was considering getting both beads on and then zip tying
around the tire and tim to keep it on and both sides in the rim
channel as that's what I was having to do...jam both sides
into the rim and hold them in place with my palm on the tire and
fingers on the inside of the rim, but eventually I worked it on.

If the tire were more "rubbery" and flexible, as I kind of
expect in a tire instead of "waxy" and stiff like the Cheng Shen
(wish I had better descriptors), it would have been much easier.

I had bought this mail order so had not had a chance to inspect
it in real life. I guess I had some built in assumptions of
what its physical nature would be just based on the brand name
of Continental.

The tire's running surface consists of these ovid patches which
gave it a somewhat "rumbling" feel and sound.

I've now put 5 miles on it, half of that w/ loaded panniers.
(It's on my Tour Easy recumbent.) So far so good. As long as
it does not blow off the rim I'll be happy although I will make
sure I carry tire irons w/ this one. I was able to get the
Zafiro off by hand with no problem.

So...so far I intend to get another couple Zafiros to put on the
spare tire wall.

Any other thoughts on what to try? You can take it as a given
that I'm going to stick w/ 27" just because. I'll put the stock
rim back on if I ever sell it.

No more Paselas for me. I also tried a Serfas but found it to
be way fragile, sidewall-wise.

So Zafiros, Continentals and Micheleins are on my "yes" list for
now. Any thoughts?

Pureheart in Aptos

On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 5:19:47 PM UTC-4, pH wrote:
> I noticed my Vitoria Zafiro was down to the cords in a couple
> spots....time to overcome my usual "stretch the tire change"
> cheapness and replace it.
>
> I took my spare tire off its holder in the garage: A Continental
> Ridge Tour, 80 psi maximum pressure. 27x 1-1/4. 27"...just as
> God intended.
> It's getting mighty hard to find a variety of 27" tires these
> days.
>
> I've tried Pasela, but found the sidewall to be too thin and
> supple. I've liked Micheleins when I could find them.
> Continentals are a good, if expensive, stand by so far.
>
> I've seen a Cheng Shen (sp?) tire but was quite put off by the
> feel of the thing...it's a dense, waxy feel vs. the suppleness
> of the Zafiro.
>
> Well, this Ridge Tour feels like a Cheng Shen..Hmm. It's made
> in India, not Germany, I was kind of expecting Thailand or
> Malaysia, but, anyway. It's thick and "waxy", not thin and
> rubbery.
>
> I had a difficult time putting it on. I'd get one bead on, then
> when I flipped it over to work on the other side, it'd pop the
> first side back off.
> I was considering getting both beads on and then zip tying
> around the tire and tim to keep it on and both sides in the rim
> channel as that's what I was having to do...jam both sides
> into the rim and hold them in place with my palm on the tire and
> fingers on the inside of the rim, but eventually I worked it on.
>
> If the tire were more "rubbery" and flexible, as I kind of
> expect in a tire instead of "waxy" and stiff like the Cheng Shen
> (wish I had better descriptors), it would have been much easier.
>
> I had bought this mail order so had not had a chance to inspect
> it in real life. I guess I had some built in assumptions of
> what its physical nature would be just based on the brand name
> of Continental.
>
> The tire's running surface consists of these ovid patches which
> gave it a somewhat "rumbling" feel and sound.
>
> I've now put 5 miles on it, half of that w/ loaded panniers.
> (It's on my Tour Easy recumbent.) So far so good. As long as
> it does not blow off the rim I'll be happy although I will make
> sure I carry tire irons w/ this one. I was able to get the
> Zafiro off by hand with no problem.
>
> So...so far I intend to get another couple Zafiros to put on the
> spare tire wall.
>
> Any other thoughts on what to try? You can take it as a given
> that I'm going to stick w/ 27" just because. I'll put the stock
> rim back on if I ever sell it.
>
> No more Paselas for me. I also tried a Serfas but found it to
> be way fragile, sidewall-wise.
>
> So Zafiros, Continentals and Micheleins are on my "yes" list for
> now. Any thoughts?

I'm not much of a connoisseur, but I do like Paselas. I'm also fine with the Gatorskins
we have on our tandem.

Our club ride today featured two flat tires for other riders. (None for us personally.)
In the conversations while watching the repairs, several people mentioned that they
liked their Gatorskins.

I'm a bit curious what you mean by "waxy." Can you elaborate?

- Frank Krygowski

On 2022-09-08, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 5:19:47 PM UTC-4, pH wrote:

<snip>
>
> I'm not much of a connoisseur, but I do like Paselas. I'm also fine with the Gatorskins
> we have on our tandem.
>
> Our club ride today featured two flat tires for other riders. (None for us personally.)
> In the conversations while watching the repairs, several people mentioned that they
> liked their Gatorskins.
>
> I'm a bit curious what you mean by "waxy." Can you elaborate?
>
> - Frank Krygowski

Well....it *is* difficult to explain...it's like the surface of a candle or
the plastic lid to a coffee can type feel...and the tire itself has quite a
"form" to it...I did not have to pry it open to insert the tube at all. (12
patches on this one so far)

Maybe I will give the Pasela's another try as you say you like them. The
Gatorskins are very $$$ and I'm very cheap. I think they are about triple
the price of a Zafiro. But still, I should try one just to see what it's
like.

I have not tried Schwalbe's as yet...should try one of those, too.

pH

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 5:19:47 PM UTC-4, pH wrote:
>> I noticed my Vitoria Zafiro was down to the cords in a couple
>> spots....time to overcome my usual "stretch the tire change"
>> cheapness and replace it.
>>
>> I took my spare tire off its holder in the garage: A Continental
>> Ridge Tour, 80 psi maximum pressure. 27x 1-1/4. 27"...just as
>> God intended.
>> It's getting mighty hard to find a variety of 27" tires these
>> days.
>>
>> I've tried Pasela, but found the sidewall to be too thin and
>> supple. I've liked Micheleins when I could find them.
>> Continentals are a good, if expensive, stand by so far.
>>
>> I've seen a Cheng Shen (sp?) tire but was quite put off by the
>> feel of the thing...it's a dense, waxy feel vs. the suppleness
>> of the Zafiro.
>>
>> Well, this Ridge Tour feels like a Cheng Shen..Hmm. It's made
>> in India, not Germany, I was kind of expecting Thailand or
>> Malaysia, but, anyway. It's thick and "waxy", not thin and
>> rubbery.
>>
>> I had a difficult time putting it on. I'd get one bead on, then
>> when I flipped it over to work on the other side, it'd pop the
>> first side back off.
>> I was considering getting both beads on and then zip tying
>> around the tire and tim to keep it on and both sides in the rim
>> channel as that's what I was having to do...jam both sides
>> into the rim and hold them in place with my palm on the tire and
>> fingers on the inside of the rim, but eventually I worked it on.
>>
>> If the tire were more "rubbery" and flexible, as I kind of
>> expect in a tire instead of "waxy" and stiff like the Cheng Shen
>> (wish I had better descriptors), it would have been much easier.
>>
>> I had bought this mail order so had not had a chance to inspect
>> it in real life. I guess I had some built in assumptions of
>> what its physical nature would be just based on the brand name
>> of Continental.
>>
>> The tire's running surface consists of these ovid patches which
>> gave it a somewhat "rumbling" feel and sound.
>>
>> I've now put 5 miles on it, half of that w/ loaded panniers.
>> (It's on my Tour Easy recumbent.) So far so good. As long as
>> it does not blow off the rim I'll be happy although I will make
>> sure I carry tire irons w/ this one. I was able to get the
>> Zafiro off by hand with no problem.
>>
>> So...so far I intend to get another couple Zafiros to put on the
>> spare tire wall.
>>
>> Any other thoughts on what to try? You can take it as a given
>> that I'm going to stick w/ 27" just because. I'll put the stock
>> rim back on if I ever sell it.
>>
>> No more Paselas for me. I also tried a Serfas but found it to
>> be way fragile, sidewall-wise.
>>
>> So Zafiros, Continentals and Micheleins are on my "yes" list for
>> now. Any thoughts?
>
> I'm not much of a connoisseur, but I do like Paselas. I'm also fine with the Gatorskins
> we have on our tandem.
>
> Our club ride today featured two flat tires for other riders. (None for us personally.)
> In the conversations while watching the repairs, several people mentioned that they
> liked their Gatorskins.
>
> I'm a bit curious what you mean by "waxy." Can you elaborate?
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>
The OEM tires on my track/single speed and CX had a rather plastic waxy
feel both very budget tires.

pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> wrote:
> On 2022-09-08, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 5:19:47 PM UTC-4, pH wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>> I'm not much of a connoisseur, but I do like Paselas. I'm also fine with the Gatorskins
>> we have on our tandem.
>>
>> Our club ride today featured two flat tires for other riders. (None for us personally.)
>> In the conversations while watching the repairs, several people mentioned that they
>> liked their Gatorskins.
>>
>> I'm a bit curious what you mean by "waxy." Can you elaborate?
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> Well....it *is* difficult to explain...it's like the surface of a candle or
> the plastic lid to a coffee can type feel...and the tire itself has quite a
> "form" to it...I did not have to pry it open to insert the tube at all. (12
> patches on this one so far)
>
> Maybe I will give the Pasela's another try as you say you like them. The
> Gatorskins are very $$$ and I'm very cheap. I think they are about triple
> the price of a Zafiro. But still, I should try one just to see what it's
> like.
>
> I have not tried Schwalbe's as yet...should try one of those, too.
>
> pH
>
They are tough (Gatorskins) and wear well, but as that is partly due to a
hard rubber compound, if you live somewhere wet, the grip is somewhat
lacking!

Had some on the rear and while fun to light up with even modest effort on
damp days commuting across a flat park I’d treat them with some caution.

That’s not to say lots of “training road” tires don’t have poor wet grip
but the Gatorskins where noticeable worse.

Roger Merriman

Sure wish I could get some other opinions about Vittoria Zaffiros. Anybody else ever used them? I bought them because they were cheap, but am starting to think they are the best tire I've ever had. Is it just me? How about a reality check, please? Thanks.

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 7:55:46 a.m. UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 5:19:47 PM UTC-4, pH wrote:
> >> I noticed my Vitoria Zafiro was down to the cords in a couple
> >> spots....time to overcome my usual "stretch the tire change"
> >> cheapness and replace it.
> >>
> >> I took my spare tire off its holder in the garage: A Continental
> >> Ridge Tour, 80 psi maximum pressure. 27x 1-1/4. 27"...just as
> >> God intended.
> >> It's getting mighty hard to find a variety of 27" tires these
> >> days.
> >>
> >> I've tried Pasela, but found the sidewall to be too thin and
> >> supple. I've liked Micheleins when I could find them.
> >> Continentals are a good, if expensive, stand by so far.
> >>
> >> I've seen a Cheng Shen (sp?) tire but was quite put off by the
> >> feel of the thing...it's a dense, waxy feel vs. the suppleness
> >> of the Zafiro.
> >>
> >> Well, this Ridge Tour feels like a Cheng Shen..Hmm. It's made
> >> in India, not Germany, I was kind of expecting Thailand or
> >> Malaysia, but, anyway. It's thick and "waxy", not thin and
> >> rubbery.
> >>
> >> I had a difficult time putting it on. I'd get one bead on, then
> >> when I flipped it over to work on the other side, it'd pop the
> >> first side back off.
> >> I was considering getting both beads on and then zip tying
> >> around the tire and tim to keep it on and both sides in the rim
> >> channel as that's what I was having to do...jam both sides
> >> into the rim and hold them in place with my palm on the tire and
> >> fingers on the inside of the rim, but eventually I worked it on.
> >>
> >> If the tire were more "rubbery" and flexible, as I kind of
> >> expect in a tire instead of "waxy" and stiff like the Cheng Shen
> >> (wish I had better descriptors), it would have been much easier.
> >>
> >> I had bought this mail order so had not had a chance to inspect
> >> it in real life. I guess I had some built in assumptions of
> >> what its physical nature would be just based on the brand name
> >> of Continental.
> >>
> >> The tire's running surface consists of these ovid patches which
> >> gave it a somewhat "rumbling" feel and sound.
> >>
> >> I've now put 5 miles on it, half of that w/ loaded panniers.
> >> (It's on my Tour Easy recumbent.) So far so good. As long as
> >> it does not blow off the rim I'll be happy although I will make
> >> sure I carry tire irons w/ this one. I was able to get the
> >> Zafiro off by hand with no problem.
> >>
> >> So...so far I intend to get another couple Zafiros to put on the
> >> spare tire wall.
> >>
> >> Any other thoughts on what to try? You can take it as a given
> >> that I'm going to stick w/ 27" just because. I'll put the stock
> >> rim back on if I ever sell it.
> >>
> >> No more Paselas for me. I also tried a Serfas but found it to
> >> be way fragile, sidewall-wise.
> >>
> >> So Zafiros, Continentals and Micheleins are on my "yes" list for
> >> now. Any thoughts?
> >
> > I'm not much of a connoisseur, but I do like Paselas. I'm also fine with the Gatorskins
> > we have on our tandem.
> >
> > Our club ride today featured two flat tires for other riders. (None for us personally.)
> > In the conversations while watching the repairs, several people mentioned that they
> > liked their Gatorskins.
> >
> > I'm a bit curious what you mean by "waxy." Can you elaborate?
> >
> > - Frank Krygowski
> >
> The OEM tires on my track/single speed and CX had a rather plastic waxy
> feel both very budget tires.

Could that "rather plastic waxy feel" be mold release?

Cheers

Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cycle_pathic@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 7:55:46 a.m. UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 5:19:47 PM UTC-4, pH wrote:
>>>> I noticed my Vitoria Zafiro was down to the cords in a couple
>>>> spots....time to overcome my usual "stretch the tire change"
>>>> cheapness and replace it.
>>>>
>>>> I took my spare tire off its holder in the garage: A Continental
>>>> Ridge Tour, 80 psi maximum pressure. 27x 1-1/4. 27"...just as
>>>> God intended.
>>>> It's getting mighty hard to find a variety of 27" tires these
>>>> days.
>>>>
>>>> I've tried Pasela, but found the sidewall to be too thin and
>>>> supple. I've liked Micheleins when I could find them.
>>>> Continentals are a good, if expensive, stand by so far.
>>>>
>>>> I've seen a Cheng Shen (sp?) tire but was quite put off by the
>>>> feel of the thing...it's a dense, waxy feel vs. the suppleness
>>>> of the Zafiro.
>>>>
>>>> Well, this Ridge Tour feels like a Cheng Shen..Hmm. It's made
>>>> in India, not Germany, I was kind of expecting Thailand or
>>>> Malaysia, but, anyway. It's thick and "waxy", not thin and
>>>> rubbery.
>>>>
>>>> I had a difficult time putting it on. I'd get one bead on, then
>>>> when I flipped it over to work on the other side, it'd pop the
>>>> first side back off.
>>>> I was considering getting both beads on and then zip tying
>>>> around the tire and tim to keep it on and both sides in the rim
>>>> channel as that's what I was having to do...jam both sides
>>>> into the rim and hold them in place with my palm on the tire and
>>>> fingers on the inside of the rim, but eventually I worked it on.
>>>>
>>>> If the tire were more "rubbery" and flexible, as I kind of
>>>> expect in a tire instead of "waxy" and stiff like the Cheng Shen
>>>> (wish I had better descriptors), it would have been much easier.
>>>>
>>>> I had bought this mail order so had not had a chance to inspect
>>>> it in real life. I guess I had some built in assumptions of
>>>> what its physical nature would be just based on the brand name
>>>> of Continental.
>>>>
>>>> The tire's running surface consists of these ovid patches which
>>>> gave it a somewhat "rumbling" feel and sound.
>>>>
>>>> I've now put 5 miles on it, half of that w/ loaded panniers.
>>>> (It's on my Tour Easy recumbent.) So far so good. As long as
>>>> it does not blow off the rim I'll be happy although I will make
>>>> sure I carry tire irons w/ this one. I was able to get the
>>>> Zafiro off by hand with no problem.
>>>>
>>>> So...so far I intend to get another couple Zafiros to put on the
>>>> spare tire wall.
>>>>
>>>> Any other thoughts on what to try? You can take it as a given
>>>> that I'm going to stick w/ 27" just because. I'll put the stock
>>>> rim back on if I ever sell it.
>>>>
>>>> No more Paselas for me. I also tried a Serfas but found it to
>>>> be way fragile, sidewall-wise.
>>>>
>>>> So Zafiros, Continentals and Micheleins are on my "yes" list for
>>>> now. Any thoughts?
>>>
>>> I'm not much of a connoisseur, but I do like Paselas. I'm also fine with the Gatorskins
>>> we have on our tandem.
>>>
>>> Our club ride today featured two flat tires for other riders. (None for us personally.)
>>> In the conversations while watching the repairs, several people mentioned that they
>>> liked their Gatorskins.
>>>
>>> I'm a bit curious what you mean by "waxy." Can you elaborate?
>>>
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>
>> The OEM tires on my track/single speed and CX had a rather plastic waxy
>> feel both very budget tires.
>
> Could that "rather plastic waxy feel" be mold release?
>
> Cheers
>
I did use both sets for a while until deciding that they where too cheap
and nasty to continue doing so!

William Crowell <retroguybilly@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sure wish I could get some other opinions about Vittoria Zaffiros.
> Anybody else ever used them? I bought them because they were cheap, but
> am starting to think they are the best tire I've ever had. Is it just
> me? How about a reality check, please? Thanks.
>

Can’t say I’ve used them but at least one folk I know liked them though I
haven’t spoken for a while!

Roger Merriman

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:57:55 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> William Crowell <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Sure wish I could get some other opinions about Vittoria Zaffiros.
> > Anybody else ever used them? I bought them because they were cheap, but
> > am starting to think they are the best tire I've ever had. Is it just
> > me? How about a reality check, please? Thanks.
> >
> Can’t say I’ve used them but at least one folk I know liked them though I
> haven’t spoken for a while!

My local pro shop has a whole section of the wall dedicated to Zaffiro. So while not great nor expensive tires they must work well.

I have ordered a set of Gatorskin 28 mm tires I think that I will put them on the Scirocco wheels I picked up to replace the wheels on my C50 as I rebuild it for sale. After I looked up what they are selling for I decided that rather than sell a bare frame I will build the complete bike.

Roger Merriman wrote:
> William Crowell <retroguybilly@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sure wish I could get some other opinions about Vittoria Zaffiros.
>> Anybody else ever used them? I bought them because they were cheap, but
>> am starting to think they are the best tire I've ever had. Is it just
>> me? How about a reality check, please? Thanks.
>
> Can’t say I’ve used them but at least one folk I know liked them though I
> haven’t spoken for a while!

I don't see the /legacy/ 630 size in the Vittoria catalog. Don't delay.

But I certainly will not touch their growing graphene range, no matter
how much better the compound works technically.

JFTR:
The cheap, deep-ridge profiled Conti tire's actual name is RIDE Tour.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:57:55 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> William Crowell <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Sure wish I could get some other opinions about Vittoria Zaffiros.
>>> Anybody else ever used them? I bought them because they were cheap, but
>>> am starting to think they are the best tire I've ever had. Is it just
>>> me? How about a reality check, please? Thanks.
>>>
>> Can’t say I’ve used them but at least one folk I know liked them though I
>> haven’t spoken for a while!
>
> My local pro shop has a whole section of the wall dedicated to Zaffiro.
> So while not great nor expensive tires they must work well.

They are training type tires rather than race tyres Victoria have a higher
end model for that.
>
> I have ordered a set of Gatorskin 28 mm tires I think that I will put
> them on the Scirocco wheels I picked up to replace the wheels on my C50
> as I rebuild it for sale. After I looked up what they are selling for I
> decided that rather than sell a bare frame I will build the complete bike.
>

Roger Merriman

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 10:55:46 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:57:55 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >> William Crowell <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Sure wish I could get some other opinions about Vittoria Zaffiros.
> >>> Anybody else ever used them? I bought them because they were cheap, but
> >>> am starting to think they are the best tire I've ever had. Is it just
> >>> me? How about a reality check, please? Thanks.
> >>>
> >> Can’t say I’ve used them but at least one folk I know liked them though I
> >> haven’t spoken for a while!
> >
> > My local pro shop has a whole section of the wall dedicated to Zaffiro.
> > So while not great nor expensive tires they must work well.
> They are training type tires rather than race tyres Victoria have a higher
> end model for that.
> >
> > I have ordered a set of Gatorskin 28 mm tires I think that I will put
> > them on the Scirocco wheels I picked up to replace the wheels on my C50
> > as I rebuild it for sale. After I looked up what they are selling for I
> > decided that rather than sell a bare frame I will build the complete bike.

I have found few differences between training and racing tires aside from stickier tread compound. I'm not sure that makes much difference.

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 9:39:26 AM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> Roger Merriman wrote:
> > William Crowell <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Sure wish I could get some other opinions about Vittoria Zaffiros.
> >> Anybody else ever used them? I bought them because they were cheap, but
> >> am starting to think they are the best tire I've ever had. Is it just
> >> me? How about a reality check, please? Thanks.
> >
> > Can’t say I’ve used them but at least one folk I know liked them though I
> > haven’t spoken for a while!
> I don't see the /legacy/ 630 size in the Vittoria catalog. Don't delay.
>
> But I certainly will not touch their growing graphene range, no matter
> how much better the compound works technically.
>
> JFTR:
> The cheap, deep-ridge profiled Conti tire's actual name is RIDE Tour.

I would be interested in knowing why you don't like the Graphene tire compound. I started using the Vittoria Corsa graphene tires because they had the lowest rolling resistance in the tests. Years later I don't use them anymore 1. because they are too expensive and 2. because in my seat of the pants opinion, Michelin Pro4 roll better.

On 9/8/2022 10:36 PM, pH wrote:
> On 2022-09-08, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 5:19:47 PM UTC-4, pH wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>> I'm not much of a connoisseur, but I do like Paselas. I'm also fine with the Gatorskins
>> we have on our tandem.
>>
>> Our club ride today featured two flat tires for other riders. (None for us personally.)
>> In the conversations while watching the repairs, several people mentioned that they
>> liked their Gatorskins.
>>
>> I'm a bit curious what you mean by "waxy." Can you elaborate?
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> Well....it *is* difficult to explain...it's like the surface of a candle or
> the plastic lid to a coffee can type feel...and the tire itself has quite a
> "form" to it...I did not have to pry it open to insert the tube at all. (12
> patches on this one so far)
>
> Maybe I will give the Pasela's another try as you say you like them. The
> Gatorskins are very $$$ and I'm very cheap. I think they are about triple
> the price of a Zafiro. But still, I should try one just to see what it's
> like.
>
> I have not tried Schwalbe's as yet...should try one of those, too.
>
> pH
>

Pasela, which is a great product line, comes in wire bead or
Aramid bead and both of those in choice of 'TG' (Aramid band
under tread) or not and choice of all black or tan side.

(not the only successful product with variants that keep
growing like Tospy. Unsuccessful products go to 'closeout')

The same casing is also on tougher (=heavier) UrbanMax and
RibMo where flat avoidance offsets 'road feel'.

https://www.panaracerusa.com/#MainContent
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 9 Sep 2022 05:24:11 -0700 (PDT), William Crowell
<retroguybilly@gmail.com> wrote:

>Sure wish I could get some other opinions about Vittoria Zaffiros. Anybody else ever used them? I bought them because they were cheap, but am starting to think they are the best tire I've ever had. Is it just me? How about a reality check, please? Thanks.

Well (:-) Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'd ride what I liked
(:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 10:55:46 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:57:55 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> William Crowell <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Sure wish I could get some other opinions about Vittoria Zaffiros.
>>>>> Anybody else ever used them? I bought them because they were cheap, but
>>>>> am starting to think they are the best tire I've ever had. Is it just
>>>>> me? How about a reality check, please? Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>> Can’t say I’ve used them but at least one folk I know liked them though I
>>>> haven’t spoken for a while!
>>>
>>> My local pro shop has a whole section of the wall dedicated to Zaffiro.
>>> So while not great nor expensive tires they must work well.
>> They are training type tires rather than race tyres Victoria have a higher
>> end model for that.
>>>
>>> I have ordered a set of Gatorskin 28 mm tires I think that I will put
>>> them on the Scirocco wheels I picked up to replace the wheels on my C50
>>> as I rebuild it for sale. After I looked up what they are selling for I
>>> decided that rather than sell a bare frame I will build the complete bike.
>
> I have found few differences between training and racing tires aside from
> stickier tread compound. I'm not sure that makes much difference.
>
I found bare in mind I’d don’t have pure road bike anymore. That tire
choices where less critical/noticeable than say MTB Gravel bikes are
somewhat in the middle, as you’d expect.

But broadly road bikes are run at high pressures and are made with hard
compounds, I’d suspect that wider tires now ie 30mm or so with lower
pressures that the difference might well be more noticeable but I don’t
have such a bike!

Roger Merriman

On 9/9/2022 6:11 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 10:55:46 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:57:55 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>> William Crowell <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Sure wish I could get some other opinions about Vittoria Zaffiros.
>>>>>> Anybody else ever used them? I bought them because they were cheap, but
>>>>>> am starting to think they are the best tire I've ever had. Is it just
>>>>>> me? How about a reality check, please? Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Can’t say I’ve used them but at least one folk I know liked them though I
>>>>> haven’t spoken for a while!
>>>>
>>>> My local pro shop has a whole section of the wall dedicated to Zaffiro.
>>>> So while not great nor expensive tires they must work well.
>>> They are training type tires rather than race tyres Victoria have a higher
>>> end model for that.
>>>>
>>>> I have ordered a set of Gatorskin 28 mm tires I think that I will put
>>>> them on the Scirocco wheels I picked up to replace the wheels on my C50
>>>> as I rebuild it for sale. After I looked up what they are selling for I
>>>> decided that rather than sell a bare frame I will build the complete bike.
>>
>> I have found few differences between training and racing tires aside from
>> stickier tread compound. I'm not sure that makes much difference.
>>
> I found bare in mind I’d don’t have pure road bike anymore. That tire
> choices where less critical/noticeable than say MTB Gravel bikes are
> somewhat in the middle, as you’d expect.
>
> But broadly road bikes are run at high pressures and are made with hard
> compounds, I’d suspect that wider tires now ie 30mm or so with lower
> pressures that the difference might well be more noticeable but I don’t
> have such a bike!
>
> Roger Merriman
>

I can't dispute your experience but in mine, premium road
tires have very soft tread (Michelin Pro, Clement Criterium,
VeloFlex Criterium). Those are all noted for exceptional
cornering grip (among other features).

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2022-09-09, William Crowell <retroguybilly@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sure wish I could get some other opinions about Vittoria Zaffiros.
> Anybody else ever used them? I bought them because they were cheap, but
> am starting to think they are the best tire I've ever had. Is it just me?
> How about a reality check, please? Thanks.

Well, I've liked them so far.

I used to be fond of the old Avocets that Jobst championed, too. No longer
available, though (at least in 27").

pH

On 2022-09-09, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 9/8/2022 10:36 PM, pH wrote:
>> On 2022-09-08, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 5:19:47 PM UTC-4, pH wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>>
>>> I'm not much of a connoisseur, but I do like Paselas. I'm also fine with the Gatorskins
>>> we have on our tandem.
>>>
>>> Our club ride today featured two flat tires for other riders. (None for us personally.)
>>> In the conversations while watching the repairs, several people mentioned that they
>>> liked their Gatorskins.
>>>
>>> I'm a bit curious what you mean by "waxy." Can you elaborate?
>>>
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>> Well....it *is* difficult to explain...it's like the surface of a candle or
>> the plastic lid to a coffee can type feel...and the tire itself has quite a
>> "form" to it...I did not have to pry it open to insert the tube at all. (12
>> patches on this one so far)
>>
>> Maybe I will give the Pasela's another try as you say you like them. The
>> Gatorskins are very $$$ and I'm very cheap. I think they are about triple
>> the price of a Zafiro. But still, I should try one just to see what it's
>> like.
>>
>> I have not tried Schwalbe's as yet...should try one of those, too.
>>
>> pH
>>
>
> Pasela, which is a great product line, comes in wire bead or
> Aramid bead and both of those in choice of 'TG' (Aramid band
> under tread) or not and choice of all black or tan side.
>
> (not the only successful product with variants that keep
> growing like Tospy. Unsuccessful products go to 'closeout')
>
>
> The same casing is also on tougher (=heavier) UrbanMax and
> RibMo where flat avoidance offsets 'road feel'.
>
> https://www.panaracerusa.com/#MainContent

Ah, thanks for this info. Sounds like the "UrbanMax" is more my line.
I'll put it on the list.

pH

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 11:39:25 PM UTC-4, pH wrote:
>
> I used to be fond of the old Avocets that Jobst championed, too. No longer
> available, though (at least in 27").

+1

- Frank Krygowski

Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, September 9, 2022, Sepp Ruf wrote:
>> Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> William Crowell <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Sure wish I could get some other opinions about Vittoria
>>>> Zaffiros. Anybody else ever used them? I bought them because
>>>> they were cheap, but am starting to think they are the best
>>>> tire I've ever had. Is it just me? How about a reality check,
>>>> please? Thanks.
>>>
>>> Can’t say I’ve used them but at least one folk I know liked them
>>> though I haven’t spoken for a while!
>> I don't see the /legacy/ 630 size in the Vittoria catalog. Don't
>> delay.
>>
>> But I certainly will not touch their growing graphene range, no
>> matter how much better the compound works technically.
>>
>> JFTR: The cheap, deep-ridge profiled Conti tire's actual name is
>> RIDE Tour.
>
> I would be interested in knowing why you don't like the Graphene tire
> compound.

Oh, not because of any quality issues. Simply because it's graphene,
and it's so new that I neither want to have it injected into my arm, nor
do I want to rub it onto my hands while handling it, nor do I want be
involved with microdosing it into the environment for frivolous amateur
bicycling reasons. Traditional rubber compounds are questionable
enough. Hey, maybe 30 years from now, someone will jump up and down in
some fringe newsgroup, claiming to have proof that graphene really as
harmless as baking soda. But what do I know? Top Vittoria tires are
just not important enough to me to try to research the issue now.

> I started using the Vittoria Corsa graphene tires because
> they had the lowest rolling resistance in the tests. Years later I
> don't use them anymore 1. because they are too expensive and 2.
> because in my seat of the pants opinion, Michelin Pro4 roll better.

Not unlikely. Michelin would not lay back, look on, if there were a
serious performance gap.

--
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZ3Al_hXoAAtJPP?format=jpg>

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 9/9/2022 6:11 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 10:55:46 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:57:55 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>> William Crowell <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Sure wish I could get some other opinions about Vittoria Zaffiros.
>>>>>>> Anybody else ever used them? I bought them because they were cheap, but
>>>>>>> am starting to think they are the best tire I've ever had. Is it just
>>>>>>> me? How about a reality check, please? Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can’t say I’ve used them but at least one folk I know liked them though I
>>>>>> haven’t spoken for a while!
>>>>>
>>>>> My local pro shop has a whole section of the wall dedicated to Zaffiro.
>>>>> So while not great nor expensive tires they must work well.
>>>> They are training type tires rather than race tyres Victoria have a higher
>>>> end model for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have ordered a set of Gatorskin 28 mm tires I think that I will put
>>>>> them on the Scirocco wheels I picked up to replace the wheels on my C50
>>>>> as I rebuild it for sale. After I looked up what they are selling for I
>>>>> decided that rather than sell a bare frame I will build the complete bike.
>>>
>>> I have found few differences between training and racing tires aside from
>>> stickier tread compound. I'm not sure that makes much difference.
>>>
>> I found bare in mind I’d don’t have pure road bike anymore. That tire
>> choices where less critical/noticeable than say MTB Gravel bikes are
>> somewhat in the middle, as you’d expect.
>>
>> But broadly road bikes are run at high pressures and are made with hard
>> compounds, I’d suspect that wider tires now ie 30mm or so with lower
>> pressures that the difference might well be more noticeable but I don’t
>> have such a bike!
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>>
>
> I can't dispute your experience but in mine, premium road
> tires have very soft tread (Michelin Pro, Clement Criterium,
> VeloFlex Criterium). Those are all noted for exceptional
> cornering grip (among other features).
>
These things are relative, road and indeed tour/commute tires rolling
resistance (lack of) and longevity are properties they want.

MTB tires grip is far more favoured even with XC types, hence there wear
rate is much higher, even if not MTBing but commuting.

Which makes sense after all the MTB can cling on to anti cambered slate
etc, where as road tires even a wet manhole cover is bit dicey!

Roger Merriman.

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:36:04 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 9/8/2022 10:36 PM, pH wrote:
> > On 2022-09-08, Frank Krygowski <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 5:19:47 PM UTC-4, pH wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >>
> >> I'm not much of a connoisseur, but I do like Paselas. I'm also fine with the Gatorskins
> >> we have on our tandem.
> >>
> >> Our club ride today featured two flat tires for other riders. (None for us personally.)
> >> In the conversations while watching the repairs, several people mentioned that they
> >> liked their Gatorskins.
> >>
> >> I'm a bit curious what you mean by "waxy." Can you elaborate?
> >>
> >> - Frank Krygowski
> >
> > Well....it *is* difficult to explain...it's like the surface of a candle or
> > the plastic lid to a coffee can type feel...and the tire itself has quite a
> > "form" to it...I did not have to pry it open to insert the tube at all. (12
> > patches on this one so far)
> >
> > Maybe I will give the Pasela's another try as you say you like them. The
> > Gatorskins are very $$$ and I'm very cheap. I think they are about triple
> > the price of a Zafiro. But still, I should try one just to see what it's
> > like.
> >
> > I have not tried Schwalbe's as yet...should try one of those, too.
> >
> > pH
> >
> Pasela, which is a great product line, comes in wire bead or
> Aramid bead and both of those in choice of 'TG' (Aramid band
> under tread) or not and choice of all black or tan side.
>
> (not the only successful product with variants that keep
> growing like Tospy. Unsuccessful products go to 'closeout')
>
>
> The same casing is also on tougher (=heavier) UrbanMax and
> RibMo where flat avoidance offsets 'road feel'.
>
> https://www.panaracerusa.com/#MainContent

I've been riding Continental 45 seasons to avoid flats and the extended wear but even Gatorskins have more road feel.

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:13:50 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 9/9/2022 6:11 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 10:55:46 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:57:55 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>>> William Crowell <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> Sure wish I could get some other opinions about Vittoria Zaffiros.
> >>>>>> Anybody else ever used them? I bought them because they were cheap, but
> >>>>>> am starting to think they are the best tire I've ever had. Is it just
> >>>>>> me? How about a reality check, please? Thanks.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Can’t say I’ve used them but at least one folk I know liked them though I
> >>>>> haven’t spoken for a while!
> >>>>
> >>>> My local pro shop has a whole section of the wall dedicated to Zaffiro.
> >>>> So while not great nor expensive tires they must work well.
> >>> They are training type tires rather than race tyres Victoria have a higher
> >>> end model for that.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have ordered a set of Gatorskin 28 mm tires I think that I will put
> >>>> them on the Scirocco wheels I picked up to replace the wheels on my C50
> >>>> as I rebuild it for sale. After I looked up what they are selling for I
> >>>> decided that rather than sell a bare frame I will build the complete bike.
> >>
> >> I have found few differences between training and racing tires aside from
> >> stickier tread compound. I'm not sure that makes much difference.
> >>
> > I found bare in mind I’d don’t have pure road bike anymore. That tire
> > choices where less critical/noticeable than say MTB Gravel bikes are
> > somewhat in the middle, as you’d expect.
> >
> > But broadly road bikes are run at high pressures and are made with hard
> > compounds, I’d suspect that wider tires now ie 30mm or so with lower
> > pressures that the difference might well be more noticeable but I don’t
> > have such a bike!
> >
> > Roger Merriman
> >
> I can't dispute your experience but in mine, premium road
> tires have very soft tread (Michelin Pro, Clement Criterium,
> VeloFlex Criterium). Those are all noted for exceptional
> cornering grip (among other features).

I suspect that the roads around here are simply too bad to corner hard enough for the tread compound to make itself known. I REALLY like Michelin Pro series and have a strong suspicion that in real life they do have lower rolling resistance than others noted for low rolling resistance on test platforms.