On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 8:39:25 PM UTC-7, pH wrote:
> On 2022-09-09, William Crowell <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Sure wish I could get some other opinions about Vittoria Zaffiros.
> > Anybody else ever used them? I bought them because they were cheap, but
> > am starting to think they are the best tire I've ever had. Is it just me?
> > How about a reality check, please? Thanks.
> Well, I've liked them so far.
>
> I used to be fond of the old Avocets that Jobst championed, too. No longer
> available, though (at least in 27").

Armor something or other? I happened to run across a set of those in a Trek shop and bought them. They bore no comparison to Gatorskins.

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 10:44:06 AM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Friday, September 9, 2022, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> >> Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>> William Crowell <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Sure wish I could get some other opinions about Vittoria
> >>>> Zaffiros. Anybody else ever used them? I bought them because
> >>>> they were cheap, but am starting to think they are the best
> >>>> tire I've ever had. Is it just me? How about a reality check,
> >>>> please? Thanks.
> >>>
> >>> Can’t say I’ve used them but at least one folk I know liked them
> >>> though I haven’t spoken for a while!
> >> I don't see the /legacy/ 630 size in the Vittoria catalog. Don't
> >> delay.
> >>
> >> But I certainly will not touch their growing graphene range, no
> >> matter how much better the compound works technically.
> >>
> >> JFTR: The cheap, deep-ridge profiled Conti tire's actual name is
> >> RIDE Tour.
> >
> > I would be interested in knowing why you don't like the Graphene tire
> > compound.
> Oh, not because of any quality issues. Simply because it's graphene,
> and it's so new that I neither want to have it injected into my arm, nor
> do I want to rub it onto my hands while handling it, nor do I want be
> involved with microdosing it into the environment for frivolous amateur
> bicycling reasons. Traditional rubber compounds are questionable
> enough. Hey, maybe 30 years from now, someone will jump up and down in
> some fringe newsgroup, claiming to have proof that graphene really as
> harmless as baking soda. But what do I know? Top Vittoria tires are
> just not important enough to me to try to research the issue now.
> > I started using the Vittoria Corsa graphene tires because
> > they had the lowest rolling resistance in the tests. Years later I
> > don't use them anymore 1. because they are too expensive and 2.
> > because in my seat of the pants opinion, Michelin Pro4 roll better.
> Not unlikely. Michelin would not lay back, look on, if there were a
> serious performance gap.
>
>
> --
> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZ3Al_hXoAAtJPP?format=jpg>

It is perfectly harmless. It is nothing more than one molecule thick small sheets of graphite. Some 18% of your body is made up of carbon. What's more, graphene is trapped in the rubber compound of these tires and doesn't seem to flake off in any manner. But I do not see that it adds anything to the tire either. The flacks are too small to add any mechanical strength and the whole idea of graphene is to make it in large sheets which they do not do in tires.

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 8:24:13 a.m. UTC-4, William Crowell wrote:
> Sure wish I could get some other opinions about Vittoria Zaffiros. Anybody else ever used them? I bought them because they were cheap, but am starting to think they are the best tire I've ever had. Is it just me? How about a reality check, please? Thanks.

I bought Vittoria Zaffiros at Mountain Equipment Co-op decades ago and fell in love with those tires. For me they're inexpensive and durable and give a nice ride. I would not hesitate to recommend them.

Cheers

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:13:50 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 9/9/2022 6:11 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 10:55:46 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:57:55 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>> William Crowell <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Sure wish I could get some other opinions about Vittoria Zaffiros.
>>>>>>>> Anybody else ever used them? I bought them because they were cheap, but
>>>>>>>> am starting to think they are the best tire I've ever had. Is it just
>>>>>>>> me? How about a reality check, please? Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can’t say I’ve used them but at least one folk I know liked them though I
>>>>>>> haven’t spoken for a while!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My local pro shop has a whole section of the wall dedicated to Zaffiro.
>>>>>> So while not great nor expensive tires they must work well.
>>>>> They are training type tires rather than race tyres Victoria have a higher
>>>>> end model for that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have ordered a set of Gatorskin 28 mm tires I think that I will put
>>>>>> them on the Scirocco wheels I picked up to replace the wheels on my C50
>>>>>> as I rebuild it for sale. After I looked up what they are selling for I
>>>>>> decided that rather than sell a bare frame I will build the complete bike.
>>>>
>>>> I have found few differences between training and racing tires aside from
>>>> stickier tread compound. I'm not sure that makes much difference.
>>>>
>>> I found bare in mind I’d don’t have pure road bike anymore. That tire
>>> choices where less critical/noticeable than say MTB Gravel bikes are
>>> somewhat in the middle, as you’d expect.
>>>
>>> But broadly road bikes are run at high pressures and are made with hard
>>> compounds, I’d suspect that wider tires now ie 30mm or so with lower
>>> pressures that the difference might well be more noticeable but I don’t
>>> have such a bike!
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>> I can't dispute your experience but in mine, premium road
>> tires have very soft tread (Michelin Pro, Clement Criterium,
>> VeloFlex Criterium). Those are all noted for exceptional
>> cornering grip (among other features).
>
> I suspect that the roads around here are simply too bad to corner hard
> enough for the tread compound to make itself known. I REALLY like
> Michelin Pro series and have a strong suspicion that in real life they do
> have lower rolling resistance than others noted for low rolling
> resistance on test platforms.
>
Rough roads need bigger tires at lower pressures, certainly my Gravel bike
which has only 35mm tires being earlier designed Gravel bike. Is still
buttery smooth at 45psi on any tarmac that I’ve taken it on bar I guess Mam
Tor broken road though that was the rocks than the tarmac as you where!

<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Broken_Road_at_Mam_Tor_and_Little_Mam_Tor_-_geograph.org.uk_-_404070.jpg>

Gravel bikes tend to use softer than road bikes compound hence faster wear
rates, but still at the hard/fast end of MTB.

After all tarmac it’s self is grippy!

Roger Merriman

Tom Kunich wrote:

> What's more, graphene is trapped in the rubber compound of these
> tires and doesn't seem to flake off in any manner. But I do not see
> that it adds anything to the tire either. The flacks are too small to
> add any mechanical strength and the whole idea of graphene is to make
> it in large sheets which they do not do in tires.

BTW:
Greta Tunbark's British cousins at work -- good luck in the blast area!
<https://twitter.com/tomdabassman/status/1568554261256015873>

Any suggestions which nasty, yet legal, substances English truckers
should start to fill into their lorry tyres?

--
"The Queen is dead. Long live the T*mp*n!"

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 2:08:02 PM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> > What's more, graphene is trapped in the rubber compound of these
> > tires and doesn't seem to flake off in any manner. But I do not see
> > that it adds anything to the tire either. The flacks are too small to
> > add any mechanical strength and the whole idea of graphene is to make
> > it in large sheets which they do not do in tires.
> BTW:
> Greta Tunbark's British cousins at work -- good luck in the blast area!
> <https://twitter.com/tomdabassman/status/1568554261256015873>
>
> Any suggestions which nasty, yet legal, substances English truckers
> should start to fill into their lorry tyres?

There are several man-made materials that come close to the strength of a three dimensional construct of two layers of graphene cross linked. They are working diligently to produce this stuff in continuous sheets. It has poor wear but immense two dimensional strength.

On 2022-09-11, Sepp Ruf <inqbel@Safe-mail.net> wrote:
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>

Well, I ended up ordering two (2) Vitoria Zafirro's (sp?) and one Michelein
ProTek for my spare wall.

That should be fine for at least a year barring casing disasters.

Thanks to all who opined...I *will* try a Schwalbe and one of those pricey
Gatorskins eventually.

pH in Aptos
>

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 7:02:28 PM UTC-7, pH wrote:
> On 2022-09-11, Sepp Ruf <inq...@Safe-mail.net> wrote:
> > Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
>
> Well, I ended up ordering two (2) Vitoria Zafirro's (sp?) and one Michelein
> ProTek for my spare wall.
>
> That should be fine for at least a year barring casing disasters.
>
> Thanks to all who opined...I *will* try a Schwalbe and one of those pricey
> Gatorskins eventually.
>
> pH in Aptos
> >
The last time I had a flat in a fast downhill turn, I stopped using cheap tires. I have put new cheap tires on bikes I have for sale, but they usually last a thousand miles before they start getting flats.

On 2022-09-12, Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 7:02:28 PM UTC-7, pH wrote:
>> On 2022-09-11, Sepp Ruf <inq...@Safe-mail.net> wrote:
>> > Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >
>>
>> Well, I ended up ordering two (2) Vitoria Zafirro's (sp?) and one Michelein
>> ProTek for my spare wall.
>>
>> That should be fine for at least a year barring casing disasters.
>>
>> Thanks to all who opined...I *will* try a Schwalbe and one of those pricey
>> Gatorskins eventually.
>>
>> pH in Aptos
>> >
> The last time I had a flat in a fast downhill turn, I stopped using cheap
> tires. I have put new cheap tires on bikes I have for sale, but they
> usually last a thousand miles before they start getting flats.

Hi Tom.

When I think of "cheap" tires, I think of "Kenda"...those things you find in
the Big Box stores like KMart etcetera.

I've been quite pleased with the Zafirro's and Continentals.

I did not like a "Serfas" I tried...it seemed to be polyurethane and quite
delicate, sidewall-wise.

The only popular brand I have not tried is Schwalbe...maybe I should order
an HS-58 (or some such #, I forget) just because. I hear they are very
heavy, but that won't matter to me anyway.

pH in Aptos

On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 4:25:17 PM UTC-7, pH wrote:
> On 2022-09-12, Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 7:02:28 PM UTC-7, pH wrote:
> >> On 2022-09-11, Sepp Ruf <inq...@Safe-mail.net> wrote:
> >> > Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> >
> >>
> >> Well, I ended up ordering two (2) Vitoria Zafirro's (sp?) and one Michelein
> >> ProTek for my spare wall.
> >>
> >> That should be fine for at least a year barring casing disasters.
> >>
> >> Thanks to all who opined...I *will* try a Schwalbe and one of those pricey
> >> Gatorskins eventually.
> >>
> >> pH in Aptos
> >> >
> > The last time I had a flat in a fast downhill turn, I stopped using cheap
> > tires. I have put new cheap tires on bikes I have for sale, but they
> > usually last a thousand miles before they start getting flats.
> Hi Tom.
>
> When I think of "cheap" tires, I think of "Kenda"...those things you find in
> the Big Box stores like KMart etcetera.
>
> I've been quite pleased with the Zafirro's and Continentals.
>
> I did not like a "Serfas" I tried...it seemed to be polyurethane and quite
> delicate, sidewall-wise.
>
> The only popular brand I have not tried is Schwalbe...maybe I should order
> an HS-58 (or some such #, I forget) just because. I hear they are very
> heavy, but that won't matter to me anyway.

From ProBikeKit you can get some lower end Goodyear tires. Maybe Andrew has them also. They seem pretty good to me but the ones I had were 25's and at 190 lbs I prefer 28's.

pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> wrote:
> On 2022-09-12, Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 7:02:28 PM UTC-7, pH wrote:
>>> On 2022-09-11, Sepp Ruf <inq...@Safe-mail.net> wrote:
>>>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, I ended up ordering two (2) Vitoria Zafirro's (sp?) and one Michelein
>>> ProTek for my spare wall.
>>>
>>> That should be fine for at least a year barring casing disasters.
>>>
>>> Thanks to all who opined...I *will* try a Schwalbe and one of those pricey
>>> Gatorskins eventually.
>>>
>>> pH in Aptos
>>>>
>> The last time I had a flat in a fast downhill turn, I stopped using cheap
>> tires. I have put new cheap tires on bikes I have for sale, but they
>> usually last a thousand miles before they start getting flats.
>
> Hi Tom.
>
> When I think of "cheap" tires, I think of "Kenda"...those things you find in
> the Big Box stores like KMart etcetera.
>
> I've been quite pleased with the Zafirro's and Continentals.
>
> I did not like a "Serfas" I tried...it seemed to be polyurethane and quite
> delicate, sidewall-wise.
>
> The only popular brand I have not tried is Schwalbe...maybe I should order
> an HS-58 (or some such #, I forget) just because. I hear they are very
> heavy, but that won't matter to me anyway.
>
> pH in Aptos
>
To the best of my knowledge most brands have some budget stuff and some
higher end stuff,

Schwalbe for example tend to do two levels of any tire, plus some budget
tires that are last years tread pattern plus more budget construction.

Roger Merriman

On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 3:27:26 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> pH <wNOS...@gmail.org> wrote:
> > On 2022-09-12, Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 7:02:28 PM UTC-7, pH wrote:
> >>> On 2022-09-11, Sepp Ruf <inq...@Safe-mail.net> wrote:
> >>>> Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Well, I ended up ordering two (2) Vitoria Zafirro's (sp?) and one Michelein
> >>> ProTek for my spare wall.
> >>>
> >>> That should be fine for at least a year barring casing disasters.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks to all who opined...I *will* try a Schwalbe and one of those pricey
> >>> Gatorskins eventually.
> >>>
> >>> pH in Aptos
> >>>>
> >> The last time I had a flat in a fast downhill turn, I stopped using cheap
> >> tires. I have put new cheap tires on bikes I have for sale, but they
> >> usually last a thousand miles before they start getting flats.
> >
> > Hi Tom.
> >
> > When I think of "cheap" tires, I think of "Kenda"...those things you find in
> > the Big Box stores like KMart etcetera.
> >
> > I've been quite pleased with the Zafirro's and Continentals.
> >
> > I did not like a "Serfas" I tried...it seemed to be polyurethane and quite
> > delicate, sidewall-wise.
> >
> > The only popular brand I have not tried is Schwalbe...maybe I should order
> > an HS-58 (or some such #, I forget) just because. I hear they are very
> > heavy, but that won't matter to me anyway.
> >
> > pH in Aptos
> >
> To the best of my knowledge most brands have some budget stuff and some
> higher end stuff,
>
> Schwalbe for example tend to do two levels of any tire, plus some budget
> tires that are last years tread pattern plus more budget construction.
>
> Roger Merriman
Generally, I wouldn't call Gatorskins or Goodyear SuperSport exactly budget tires. They're not cheap like the $20 each tires that they were testing on YouTube.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 3:27:26 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> pH <wNOS...@gmail.org> wrote:
>>> On 2022-09-12, Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 7:02:28 PM UTC-7, pH wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-09-11, Sepp Ruf <inq...@Safe-mail.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, I ended up ordering two (2) Vitoria Zafirro's (sp?) and one Michelein
>>>>> ProTek for my spare wall.
>>>>>
>>>>> That should be fine for at least a year barring casing disasters.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks to all who opined...I *will* try a Schwalbe and one of those pricey
>>>>> Gatorskins eventually.
>>>>>
>>>>> pH in Aptos
>>>>>>
>>>> The last time I had a flat in a fast downhill turn, I stopped using cheap
>>>> tires. I have put new cheap tires on bikes I have for sale, but they
>>>> usually last a thousand miles before they start getting flats.
>>>
>>> Hi Tom.
>>>
>>> When I think of "cheap" tires, I think of "Kenda"...those things you find in
>>> the Big Box stores like KMart etcetera.
>>>
>>> I've been quite pleased with the Zafirro's and Continentals.
>>>
>>> I did not like a "Serfas" I tried...it seemed to be polyurethane and quite
>>> delicate, sidewall-wise.
>>>
>>> The only popular brand I have not tried is Schwalbe...maybe I should order
>>> an HS-58 (or some such #, I forget) just because. I hear they are very
>>> heavy, but that won't matter to me anyway.
>>>
>>> pH in Aptos
>>>
>> To the best of my knowledge most brands have some budget stuff and some
>> higher end stuff,
>>
>> Schwalbe for example tend to do two levels of any tire, plus some budget
>> tires that are last years tread pattern plus more budget construction.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
> Generally, I wouldn't call Gatorskins or Goodyear SuperSport exactly
> budget tires. They're not cheap like the $20 each tires that they were testing on YouTube.
>
Neither is budget though they are different types the Gatorskins being
training/commute type the Supersport being a race tyre.

But most if not all manufacturers do make budget versions some only seem to
be found on new bikes.

Roger Merriman