In other words, we may be seeing a minimum. The daily new infections number dropped a bit yesterday after being about the same for a week much like the death rate. I'm hoping we are not going to see a reversal as has happened several times before.

If this continued dramatic drop from the holiday peak is due to vaccination, I would expect it to continue to numbers near zero allowing track and trace to be done effectively... if there isn't too much push back from those who can't understand the value in the tool.

I am concerned by this plateau as it may be a result of the more infectious strains making the rounds in the 50% of the population not previously infected or vaccinated. I found a page where the CDC is tracking three varient, B.1.1.7, B.1.351 and P.1. I'm surprised at how low the numbers are, 20915, 453 and 497 respectively. Seems the Indian Delta B.1.617.2 variant is not present enough to bother reporting or maybe still at zero in the US. I do see reports that the L452R mutation found in the Delta variant is very present in California.

I'm presently in Puerto Rico where they generally treat the virus more seriously than in many places. In San Juan no one walks around without a mask and they take temperatures and provide hand cleaning at the entrance to every shop. To enter the island you have to have a negative test result within 72 hours or be doubly vaccinated. They were seeing a spike in late April, but by mid May it was completely under control. That sort of result could be achieved everywhere in the US if we were willing to actually work to that goal.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 8:10:41 AM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> In other words, we may be seeing a minimum. The daily new infections number dropped a bit yesterday after being about the same for a week much like the death rate. I'm hoping we are not going to see a reversal as has happened several times before.
>
> If this continued dramatic drop from the holiday peak is due to vaccination, I would expect it to continue to numbers near zero allowing track and trace to be done effectively... if there isn't too much push back from those who can't understand the value in the tool.
>
> I am concerned by this plateau as it may be a result of the more infectious strains making the rounds in the 50% of the population not previously infected or vaccinated. I found a page where the CDC is tracking three varient, B.1.1.7, B.1.351 and P.1. I'm surprised at how low the numbers are, 20915, 453 and 497 respectively. Seems the Indian Delta B.1.617.2 variant is not present enough to bother reporting or maybe still at zero in the US. I do see reports that the L452R mutation found in the Delta variant is very present in California.
>
> I'm presently in Puerto Rico where they generally treat the virus more seriously than in many places. In San Juan no one walks around without a mask and they take temperatures and provide hand cleaning at the entrance to every shop. To enter the island you have to have a negative test result within 72 hours or be doubly vaccinated. They were seeing a spike in late April, but by mid May it was completely under control. That sort of result could be achieved everywhere in the US if we were willing to actually work to that goal.

Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other countries into shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine guinea pigs are invincible. I don't oppose reopening, but keep distancing and masking, despite what CDC says.

On 6/11/2021 3:43 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
> Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other countries into
> shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine guinea pigs are
> invincible. I don't oppose reopening, but keep distancing and masking,
> despite what CDC says.

Why would folks who have been fully vaccinated want to bother with a mask?
Isn't that an infringement on their rights? (paraphrasing the antimaskers'
attitudes earlier in the pandemic).

After all, those who have CHOSEN to not be fully vaccinated have
made a decision in THEIR "best perceived interests". Shouldn't they
be left exposed to the consequences of their decisions?

[News reporting Pfizer 80+ effective against the India variant (on
the rise in the US) but only 30+ effective for single dose. And,
of course, 0% for no doses!]

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 5:47:01 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> On 6/11/2021 3:43 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
> > Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other countries into
> > shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine guinea pigs are
> > invincible. I don't oppose reopening, but keep distancing and masking,
> > despite what CDC says.
> Why would folks who have been fully vaccinated want to bother with a mask?
> Isn't that an infringement on their rights? (paraphrasing the antimaskers'
> attitudes earlier in the pandemic).
>
> After all, those who have CHOSEN to not be fully vaccinated have
> made a decision in THEIR "best perceived interests". Shouldn't they
> be left exposed to the consequences of their decisions?
>
> [News reporting Pfizer 80+ effective against the India variant (on
> the rise in the US) but only 30+ effective for single dose. And,
> of course, 0% for no doses!]

I know of a senior housing complex which only take one-shot for all the residents, and no report of major illness so far. We only have single digit new daily cases for 700,000 population; so, it's still inconclusive either case.

But the important point is:
"In keeping people out of the hospital with COVID-19, a single shot’s efficacy was estimated to be 80%."

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-03-03/single-shot-of-two-dose-covid-19-vaccine-can-prevent-serious-illness-and-death

On 6/11/2021 6:40 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 5:47:01 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
>> On 6/11/2021 3:43 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
>>> Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other countries into
>>> shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine guinea pigs are
>>> invincible. I don't oppose reopening, but keep distancing and masking,
>>> despite what CDC says.
>> Why would folks who have been fully vaccinated want to bother with a mask?
>> Isn't that an infringement on their rights? (paraphrasing the antimaskers'
>> attitudes earlier in the pandemic).
>>
>> After all, those who have CHOSEN to not be fully vaccinated have
>> made a decision in THEIR "best perceived interests". Shouldn't they
>> be left exposed to the consequences of their decisions?
>>
>> [News reporting Pfizer 80+ effective against the India variant (on
>> the rise in the US) but only 30+ effective for single dose. And,
>> of course, 0% for no doses!]
>
> I know of a senior housing complex which only take one-shot for all the residents, and no report of major illness so far. We only have single digit new daily cases for 700,000 population; so, it's still inconclusive either case.
>
> But the important point is:
> "In keeping people out of the hospital with COVID-19, a single shot’s efficacy was estimated to be 80%."
>
> https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-03-03/single-shot-of-two-dose-covid-19-vaccine-can-prevent-serious-illness-and-death

Old news. That reflects previous strains of the virus. As newer variants
gain a foothold, the LOWER efficacies will become apparent.

Just because you don't *die* doesn't mean you want to be *sick*.
Everyone that I know who caught the virus has suffered some
lingering effects. None of them are eager to repeat the
experience (so you've got to wonder why other folks would
expose themselves to that possibility).

<https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/06/delta-covid-variant-update-does-the-moderna-vaccine-work-against-the-new-strain.html>

33% after one dose.

<https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/06/delta-covid-variant-does-pfizer-vaccine-work-against-new-strain.html>

also 33% after one dose.

In a "disappointing" year, the flu vaccine is 60% effective. And, the
consequences of an infection tend to be less than that of covid.

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 6:46:33 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> On 6/11/2021 6:40 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
> > On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 5:47:01 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> >> On 6/11/2021 3:43 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
> >>> Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other countries into
> >>> shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine guinea pigs are
> >>> invincible. I don't oppose reopening, but keep distancing and masking,
> >>> despite what CDC says.
> >> Why would folks who have been fully vaccinated want to bother with a mask?
> >> Isn't that an infringement on their rights? (paraphrasing the antimaskers'
> >> attitudes earlier in the pandemic).
> >>
> >> After all, those who have CHOSEN to not be fully vaccinated have
> >> made a decision in THEIR "best perceived interests". Shouldn't they
> >> be left exposed to the consequences of their decisions?
> >>
> >> [News reporting Pfizer 80+ effective against the India variant (on
> >> the rise in the US) but only 30+ effective for single dose. And,
> >> of course, 0% for no doses!]
> >
> > I know of a senior housing complex which only take one-shot for all the residents, and no report of major illness so far. We only have single digit new daily cases for 700,000 population; so, it's still inconclusive either case.
> >
> > But the important point is:
> > "In keeping people out of the hospital with COVID-19, a single shot’s efficacy was estimated to be 80%."
> >
> > https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-03-03/single-shot-of-two-dose-covid-19-vaccine-can-prevent-serious-illness-and-death
> Old news. That reflects previous strains of the virus. As newer variants
> gain a foothold, the LOWER efficacies will become apparent.
>
> Just because you don't *die* doesn't mean you want to be *sick*.
> Everyone that I know who caught the virus has suffered some
> lingering effects. None of them are eager to repeat the
> experience (so you've got to wonder why other folks would
> expose themselves to that possibility).
>
> <https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/06/delta-covid-variant-update-does-the-moderna-vaccine-work-against-the-new-strain.html>
>
> 33% after one dose.
>
> <https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/06/delta-covid-variant-does-pfizer-vaccine-work-against-new-strain.html>
>
> also 33% after one dose.
>
> In a "disappointing" year, the flu vaccine is 60% effective. And, the
> consequences of an infection tend to be less than that of covid.

Locally, out of the 30% unvaccinated, hospitalization rate is 0.56%. Even one-shot would be a lot lower. There is a better chance of getting hit in auto accident.

On 6/11/2021 7:08 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 6:46:33 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
>> On 6/11/2021 6:40 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
>>> On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 5:47:01 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
>>>> On 6/11/2021 3:43 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
>>>>> Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other
>>>>> countries into shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine
>>>>> guinea pigs are invincible. I don't oppose reopening, but keep
>>>>> distancing and masking, despite what CDC says.
>>>> Why would folks who have been fully vaccinated want to bother with a
>>>> mask? Isn't that an infringement on their rights? (paraphrasing the
>>>> antimaskers' attitudes earlier in the pandemic).
>>>>
>>>> After all, those who have CHOSEN to not be fully vaccinated have made
>>>> a decision in THEIR "best perceived interests". Shouldn't they be left
>>>> exposed to the consequences of their decisions?
>>>>
>>>> [News reporting Pfizer 80+ effective against the India variant (on the
>>>> rise in the US) but only 30+ effective for single dose. And, of
>>>> course, 0% for no doses!]
>>>
>>> I know of a senior housing complex which only take one-shot for all the
>>> residents, and no report of major illness so far. We only have single
>>> digit new daily cases for 700,000 population; so, it's still
>>> inconclusive either case.
>>>
>>> But the important point is: "In keeping people out of the hospital with
>>> COVID-19, a single shot’s efficacy was estimated to be 80%."
>>>
>>> https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-03-03/single-shot-of-two-dose-covid-19-vaccine-can-prevent-serious-illness-and-death
>>
>>>
Old news. That reflects previous strains of the virus. As newer variants
>> gain a foothold, the LOWER efficacies will become apparent.
>>
>> Just because you don't *die* doesn't mean you want to be *sick*. Everyone
>> that I know who caught the virus has suffered some lingering effects. None
>> of them are eager to repeat the experience (so you've got to wonder why
>> other folks would expose themselves to that possibility).
>>
>> <https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/06/delta-covid-variant-update-does-the-moderna-vaccine-work-against-the-new-strain.html>
>>
>>
>>
33% after one dose.
>>
>> <https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/06/delta-covid-variant-does-pfizer-vaccine-work-against-new-strain.html>
>>
>>
>>
also 33% after one dose.
>>
>> In a "disappointing" year, the flu vaccine is 60% effective. And, the
>> consequences of an infection tend to be less than that of covid.
>
> Locally, out of the 30% unvaccinated, hospitalization rate is 0.56%. Even
> one-shot would be a lot lower. There is a better chance of getting hit in
> auto accident.

Autoaccidents don't harm folks who weren't directly involved in the accident!

On 6/11/2021 7:46 PM, Don Y wrote:
> On 6/11/2021 3:43 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
>> Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other countries
>> into
>> shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine guinea pigs are
>> invincible.  I don't oppose reopening, but keep distancing and masking,
>> despite what CDC says.
>
> Why would folks who have been fully vaccinated want to bother with a
> mask?
> Isn't that an infringement on their rights?  (paraphrasing the
> antimaskers'
> attitudes earlier in the pandemic).
>
> After all, those who have CHOSEN to not be fully vaccinated have
> made a decision in THEIR "best perceived interests".  Shouldn't they
> be left exposed to the consequences of their decisions?
>
> [News reporting Pfizer 80+ effective against the India variant (on
> the rise in the US) but only 30+ effective for single dose.  And,
> of course, 0% for no doses!]
>
 We shut down our morning breakfast of about 5 people when Covid started.

We are starting up again Monday morning, but we have one member that
refuses to get vaccinated.

He is a conspiracy type and since he is not vaccinated, he is not being
invited or made aware

that we are getting together again. He made the choice.

                                             Mikek

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 08:36:26 -0500, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote:

>On 6/11/2021 7:46 PM, Don Y wrote:
>> On 6/11/2021 3:43 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
>>> Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other countries
>>> into
>>> shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine guinea pigs are
>>> invincible.  I don't oppose reopening, but keep distancing and masking,
>>> despite what CDC says.
>>
>> Why would folks who have been fully vaccinated want to bother with a
>> mask?
>> Isn't that an infringement on their rights?  (paraphrasing the
>> antimaskers'
>> attitudes earlier in the pandemic).
>>
>> After all, those who have CHOSEN to not be fully vaccinated have
>> made a decision in THEIR "best perceived interests".  Shouldn't they
>> be left exposed to the consequences of their decisions?
>>
>> [News reporting Pfizer 80+ effective against the India variant (on
>> the rise in the US) but only 30+ effective for single dose.  And,
>> of course, 0% for no doses!]
>>
>  We shut down our morning breakfast of about 5 people when Covid started.
>
>We are starting up again Monday morning, but we have one member that
>refuses to get vaccinated.
>
>He is a conspiracy type and since he is not vaccinated, he is not being
>invited or made aware
>
>that we are getting together again. He made the choice.
>
>                                              Mikek

If everyone else is vaccinated, he's essentially zero risk.

So many people are so afraid.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cfc8394y6ny8hai/Afraid.jpg?raw=1

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The best designs are necessarily accidental.

On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 6:36:33 AM UTC-7, amdx wrote:
> On 6/11/2021 7:46 PM, Don Y wrote:
> > On 6/11/2021 3:43 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
> >> Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other countries
> >> into
> >> shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine guinea pigs are
> >> invincible. I don't oppose reopening, but keep distancing and masking,
> >> despite what CDC says.
> >
> > Why would folks who have been fully vaccinated want to bother with a
> > mask?
> > Isn't that an infringement on their rights? (paraphrasing the
> > antimaskers'
> > attitudes earlier in the pandemic).
> >
> > After all, those who have CHOSEN to not be fully vaccinated have
> > made a decision in THEIR "best perceived interests". Shouldn't they
> > be left exposed to the consequences of their decisions?
> >
> > [News reporting Pfizer 80+ effective against the India variant (on
> > the rise in the US) but only 30+ effective for single dose. And,
> > of course, 0% for no doses!]
> >
> We shut down our morning breakfast of about 5 people when Covid started.
>
> We are starting up again Monday morning, but we have one member that
> refuses to get vaccinated.
>
> He is a conspiracy type and since he is not vaccinated, he is not being
> invited or made aware
>
> that we are getting together again. He made the choice.

I have a friend of the same. I am trying to convince him to take at least one shot. He said: there are roughly 800 cases of heart complications after second shot; so, 1 in 250,000. There is no known case of serious covid with either one or two shots. We just need to wait for more data.

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 8:47:01 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> On 6/11/2021 3:43 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
> > Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other countries into
> > shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine guinea pigs are
> > invincible. I don't oppose reopening, but keep distancing and masking,
> > despite what CDC says.
> Why would folks who have been fully vaccinated want to bother with a mask?
> Isn't that an infringement on their rights? (paraphrasing the antimaskers'
> attitudes earlier in the pandemic).

No, you have no right to spread disease. Being vaccinated means you are very unlikely to die, but it does not mean you can't catch and spread the virus, only less likely to do so.

> After all, those who have CHOSEN to not be fully vaccinated have
> made a decision in THEIR "best perceived interests". Shouldn't they
> be left exposed to the consequences of their decisions?

This is not a zero sum game. An "us vs. them" attitude is not in anyone's best interest. As long as the disease is circulating it is mutating with a likelihood of increased virulence or even overcoming protections from prior infections and/or the vaccines.

> [News reporting Pfizer 80+ effective against the India variant (on
> the rise in the US) but only 30+ effective for single dose. And,
> of course, 0% for no doses!]

Exactly why we need to continue to do everything we can to fight this disease like it was Polio.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 6:43:12 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 8:10:41 AM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> > In other words, we may be seeing a minimum. The daily new infections number dropped a bit yesterday after being about the same for a week much like the death rate. I'm hoping we are not going to see a reversal as has happened several times before.
> >
> > If this continued dramatic drop from the holiday peak is due to vaccination, I would expect it to continue to numbers near zero allowing track and trace to be done effectively... if there isn't too much push back from those who can't understand the value in the tool.
> >
> > I am concerned by this plateau as it may be a result of the more infectious strains making the rounds in the 50% of the population not previously infected or vaccinated. I found a page where the CDC is tracking three varient, B.1.1.7, B.1.351 and P.1. I'm surprised at how low the numbers are, 20915, 453 and 497 respectively. Seems the Indian Delta B.1.617.2 variant is not present enough to bother reporting or maybe still at zero in the US. I do see reports that the L452R mutation found in the Delta variant is very present in California.
> >
> > I'm presently in Puerto Rico where they generally treat the virus more seriously than in many places. In San Juan no one walks around without a mask and they take temperatures and provide hand cleaning at the entrance to every shop. To enter the island you have to have a negative test result within 72 hours or be doubly vaccinated. They were seeing a spike in late April, but by mid May it was completely under control. That sort of result could be achieved everywhere in the US if we were willing to actually work to that goal.
> Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other countries into shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine guinea pigs are invincible. I don't oppose reopening, but keep distancing and masking, despite what CDC says.

It is not clear what you are saying. Should we bother to try to understand?

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 10:08:13 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 6:46:33 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> > On 6/11/2021 6:40 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
> > > On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 5:47:01 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> > >> On 6/11/2021 3:43 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
> > >>> Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other countries into
> > >>> shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine guinea pigs are
> > >>> invincible. I don't oppose reopening, but keep distancing and masking,
> > >>> despite what CDC says.
> > >> Why would folks who have been fully vaccinated want to bother with a mask?
> > >> Isn't that an infringement on their rights? (paraphrasing the antimaskers'
> > >> attitudes earlier in the pandemic).
> > >>
> > >> After all, those who have CHOSEN to not be fully vaccinated have
> > >> made a decision in THEIR "best perceived interests". Shouldn't they
> > >> be left exposed to the consequences of their decisions?
> > >>
> > >> [News reporting Pfizer 80+ effective against the India variant (on
> > >> the rise in the US) but only 30+ effective for single dose. And,
> > >> of course, 0% for no doses!]
> > >
> > > I know of a senior housing complex which only take one-shot for all the residents, and no report of major illness so far. We only have single digit new daily cases for 700,000 population; so, it's still inconclusive either case.
> > >
> > > But the important point is:
> > > "In keeping people out of the hospital with COVID-19, a single shot’s efficacy was estimated to be 80%."
> > >
> > > https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-03-03/single-shot-of-two-dose-covid-19-vaccine-can-prevent-serious-illness-and-death
> > Old news. That reflects previous strains of the virus. As newer variants
> > gain a foothold, the LOWER efficacies will become apparent.
> >
> > Just because you don't *die* doesn't mean you want to be *sick*.
> > Everyone that I know who caught the virus has suffered some
> > lingering effects. None of them are eager to repeat the
> > experience (so you've got to wonder why other folks would
> > expose themselves to that possibility).
> >
> > <https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/06/delta-covid-variant-update-does-the-moderna-vaccine-work-against-the-new-strain.html>
> >
> > 33% after one dose.
> >
> > <https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/06/delta-covid-variant-does-pfizer-vaccine-work-against-new-strain.html>
> >
> > also 33% after one dose.
> >
> > In a "disappointing" year, the flu vaccine is 60% effective. And, the
> > consequences of an infection tend to be less than that of covid.
> Locally, out of the 30% unvaccinated, hospitalization rate is 0.56%. Even one-shot would be a lot lower. There is a better chance of getting hit in auto accident.

I don't understand. We take auto accidents very seriously, wearing seat belts, using air bags and having many laws about what you can and can not do. Are you suggesting we need to do the same for COVID? I agree!

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 10:41:31 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 08:36:26 -0500, amdx <am...@knology.net> wrote:
>
> >On 6/11/2021 7:46 PM, Don Y wrote:
> >> On 6/11/2021 3:43 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
> >>> Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other countries
> >>> into
> >>> shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine guinea pigs are
> >>> invincible. I don't oppose reopening, but keep distancing and masking,
> >>> despite what CDC says.
> >>
> >> Why would folks who have been fully vaccinated want to bother with a
> >> mask?
> >> Isn't that an infringement on their rights? (paraphrasing the
> >> antimaskers'
> >> attitudes earlier in the pandemic).
> >>
> >> After all, those who have CHOSEN to not be fully vaccinated have
> >> made a decision in THEIR "best perceived interests". Shouldn't they
> >> be left exposed to the consequences of their decisions?
> >>
> >> [News reporting Pfizer 80+ effective against the India variant (on
> >> the rise in the US) but only 30+ effective for single dose. And,
> >> of course, 0% for no doses!]
> >>
> > We shut down our morning breakfast of about 5 people when Covid started.
> >
> >We are starting up again Monday morning, but we have one member that
> >refuses to get vaccinated.
> >
> >He is a conspiracy type and since he is not vaccinated, he is not being
> >invited or made aware
> >
> >that we are getting together again. He made the choice.
> >
> > Mikek
> If everyone else is vaccinated, he's essentially zero risk.
>
> So many people are so afraid.
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cfc8394y6ny8hai/Afraid.jpg?raw=1

Maybe they are afraid of giving him the virus? Having the vaccine doesn't mean you can't contract and spread the disease.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 8:02:51 AM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 10:08:13 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> > On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 6:46:33 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> > > On 6/11/2021 6:40 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
> > > > On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 5:47:01 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> > > >> On 6/11/2021 3:43 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
> > > >>> Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other countries into
> > > >>> shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine guinea pigs are
> > > >>> invincible. I don't oppose reopening, but keep distancing and masking,
> > > >>> despite what CDC says.
> > > >> Why would folks who have been fully vaccinated want to bother with a mask?
> > > >> Isn't that an infringement on their rights? (paraphrasing the antimaskers'
> > > >> attitudes earlier in the pandemic).
> > > >>
> > > >> After all, those who have CHOSEN to not be fully vaccinated have
> > > >> made a decision in THEIR "best perceived interests". Shouldn't they
> > > >> be left exposed to the consequences of their decisions?
> > > >>
> > > >> [News reporting Pfizer 80+ effective against the India variant (on
> > > >> the rise in the US) but only 30+ effective for single dose. And,
> > > >> of course, 0% for no doses!]
> > > >
> > > > I know of a senior housing complex which only take one-shot for all the residents, and no report of major illness so far. We only have single digit new daily cases for 700,000 population; so, it's still inconclusive either case.
> > > >
> > > > But the important point is:
> > > > "In keeping people out of the hospital with COVID-19, a single shot’s efficacy was estimated to be 80%."
> > > >
> > > > https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-03-03/single-shot-of-two-dose-covid-19-vaccine-can-prevent-serious-illness-and-death
> > > Old news. That reflects previous strains of the virus. As newer variants
> > > gain a foothold, the LOWER efficacies will become apparent.
> > >
> > > Just because you don't *die* doesn't mean you want to be *sick*.
> > > Everyone that I know who caught the virus has suffered some
> > > lingering effects. None of them are eager to repeat the
> > > experience (so you've got to wonder why other folks would
> > > expose themselves to that possibility).
> > >
> > > <https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/06/delta-covid-variant-update-does-the-moderna-vaccine-work-against-the-new-strain.html>
> > >
> > > 33% after one dose.
> > >
> > > <https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/06/delta-covid-variant-does-pfizer-vaccine-work-against-new-strain.html>
> > >
> > > also 33% after one dose.
> > >
> > > In a "disappointing" year, the flu vaccine is 60% effective. And, the
> > > consequences of an infection tend to be less than that of covid.
> > Locally, out of the 30% unvaccinated, hospitalization rate is 0.56%. Even one-shot would be a lot lower. There is a better chance of getting hit in auto accident.
> I don't understand. We take auto accidents very seriously, wearing seat belts, using air bags and having many laws about what you can and can not do.. Are you suggesting we need to do the same for COVID? I agree!

I am saying we need to keep social distancing and wearing masks until new cases get close to zero.

On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 10:43:49 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 6:36:33 AM UTC-7, amdx wrote:
> > On 6/11/2021 7:46 PM, Don Y wrote:
> > > On 6/11/2021 3:43 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
> > >> Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other countries
> > >> into
> > >> shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine guinea pigs are
> > >> invincible. I don't oppose reopening, but keep distancing and masking,
> > >> despite what CDC says.
> > >
> > > Why would folks who have been fully vaccinated want to bother with a
> > > mask?
> > > Isn't that an infringement on their rights? (paraphrasing the
> > > antimaskers'
> > > attitudes earlier in the pandemic).
> > >
> > > After all, those who have CHOSEN to not be fully vaccinated have
> > > made a decision in THEIR "best perceived interests". Shouldn't they
> > > be left exposed to the consequences of their decisions?
> > >
> > > [News reporting Pfizer 80+ effective against the India variant (on
> > > the rise in the US) but only 30+ effective for single dose. And,
> > > of course, 0% for no doses!]
> > >
> > We shut down our morning breakfast of about 5 people when Covid started..
> >
> > We are starting up again Monday morning, but we have one member that
> > refuses to get vaccinated.
> >
> > He is a conspiracy type and since he is not vaccinated, he is not being
> > invited or made aware
> >
> > that we are getting together again. He made the choice.
> I have a friend of the same. I am trying to convince him to take at least one shot. He said: there are roughly 800 cases of heart complications after second shot; so, 1 in 250,000. There is no known case of serious covid with either one or two shots. We just need to wait for more data.

8 deaths out of 140 million fully vaccinated. 600,000 deaths out of 34 million infected without the vaccine, 110 dBCov. I think we have enough data. No?

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 8:13:07 AM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 10:43:49 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 6:36:33 AM UTC-7, amdx wrote:
> > > On 6/11/2021 7:46 PM, Don Y wrote:
> > > > On 6/11/2021 3:43 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
> > > >> Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other countries
> > > >> into
> > > >> shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine guinea pigs are
> > > >> invincible. I don't oppose reopening, but keep distancing and masking,
> > > >> despite what CDC says.
> > > >
> > > > Why would folks who have been fully vaccinated want to bother with a
> > > > mask?
> > > > Isn't that an infringement on their rights? (paraphrasing the
> > > > antimaskers'
> > > > attitudes earlier in the pandemic).
> > > >
> > > > After all, those who have CHOSEN to not be fully vaccinated have
> > > > made a decision in THEIR "best perceived interests". Shouldn't they
> > > > be left exposed to the consequences of their decisions?
> > > >
> > > > [News reporting Pfizer 80+ effective against the India variant (on
> > > > the rise in the US) but only 30+ effective for single dose. And,
> > > > of course, 0% for no doses!]
> > > >
> > > We shut down our morning breakfast of about 5 people when Covid started.
> > >
> > > We are starting up again Monday morning, but we have one member that
> > > refuses to get vaccinated.
> > >
> > > He is a conspiracy type and since he is not vaccinated, he is not being
> > > invited or made aware
> > >
> > > that we are getting together again. He made the choice.
> > I have a friend of the same. I am trying to convince him to take at least one shot. He said: there are roughly 800 cases of heart complications after second shot; so, 1 in 250,000. There is no known case of serious covid with either one or two shots. We just need to wait for more data.
> 8 deaths out of 140 million fully vaccinated. 600,000 deaths out of 34 million infected without the vaccine, 110 dBCov. I think we have enough data. No?

800 heart complications, not including other minor symptoms. In low infection area, the chance of getting into hospital from the second shot is higher than from covid, for 10% of the people with one-shot.

On 6/12/2021 8:08 AM, Ed Lee wrote:

> I am saying we need to keep social distancing and wearing masks until new cases get close to zero.

And I'm saying you're going to have an EXTREMELY hard time trying to get
fully vaccinated people to continue wearing masks, socially distancing, etc.

"But, I got the vaccination so I didn't HAVE TO do so!
Were they LYING when they used THAT as an incentive to
get me to take the vaccination???"

Here's a big pile of toothpaste -- and an empty toothpaste tube.
You're welcome to try to get the paste back INTO the tube!

On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 08:08:46 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
<edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 8:02:51 AM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 10:08:13 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
>> > On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 6:46:33 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
>> > > On 6/11/2021 6:40 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
>> > > > On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 5:47:01 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
>> > > >> On 6/11/2021 3:43 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
>> > > >>> Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other countries into
>> > > >>> shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine guinea pigs are
>> > > >>> invincible. I don't oppose reopening, but keep distancing and masking,
>> > > >>> despite what CDC says.
>> > > >> Why would folks who have been fully vaccinated want to bother with a mask?
>> > > >> Isn't that an infringement on their rights? (paraphrasing the antimaskers'
>> > > >> attitudes earlier in the pandemic).
>> > > >>
>> > > >> After all, those who have CHOSEN to not be fully vaccinated have
>> > > >> made a decision in THEIR "best perceived interests". Shouldn't they
>> > > >> be left exposed to the consequences of their decisions?
>> > > >>
>> > > >> [News reporting Pfizer 80+ effective against the India variant (on
>> > > >> the rise in the US) but only 30+ effective for single dose. And,
>> > > >> of course, 0% for no doses!]
>> > > >
>> > > > I know of a senior housing complex which only take one-shot for all the residents, and no report of major illness so far. We only have single digit new daily cases for 700,000 population; so, it's still inconclusive either case.
>> > > >
>> > > > But the important point is:
>> > > > "In keeping people out of the hospital with COVID-19, a single shot’s efficacy was estimated to be 80%."
>> > > >
>> > > > https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-03-03/single-shot-of-two-dose-covid-19-vaccine-can-prevent-serious-illness-and-death
>> > > Old news. That reflects previous strains of the virus. As newer variants
>> > > gain a foothold, the LOWER efficacies will become apparent.
>> > >
>> > > Just because you don't *die* doesn't mean you want to be *sick*.
>> > > Everyone that I know who caught the virus has suffered some
>> > > lingering effects. None of them are eager to repeat the
>> > > experience (so you've got to wonder why other folks would
>> > > expose themselves to that possibility).
>> > >
>> > > <https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/06/delta-covid-variant-update-does-the-moderna-vaccine-work-against-the-new-strain.html>
>> > >
>> > > 33% after one dose.
>> > >
>> > > <https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/06/delta-covid-variant-does-pfizer-vaccine-work-against-new-strain.html>
>> > >
>> > > also 33% after one dose.
>> > >
>> > > In a "disappointing" year, the flu vaccine is 60% effective. And, the
>> > > consequences of an infection tend to be less than that of covid.
>> > Locally, out of the 30% unvaccinated, hospitalization rate is 0.56%. Even one-shot would be a lot lower. There is a better chance of getting hit in auto accident.
>> I don't understand. We take auto accidents very seriously, wearing seat belts, using air bags and having many laws about what you can and can not do. Are you suggesting we need to do the same for COVID? I agree!
>
>I am saying we need to keep social distancing and wearing masks until new cases get close to zero.

The daily case rate in California is about 2% of peak. That's close to
zero. Maybe false positives.

The daily death rate is now about 1 PPM per day, but that may be
over-stated too, as in covid-asigned gunshot and motorcycle wreck
deaths.

About twice as many people are dying from fentanyl in SF as from
covid; the fantanyl is going up and the covid is going down. But our
DA won't prosecute "low level" mass murderers.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The best designs are necessarily accidental.

On 6/12/2021 6:36 AM, amdx wrote:
> On 6/11/2021 7:46 PM, Don Y wrote:
>> On 6/11/2021 3:43 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
>>> Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other countries into
>>> shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine guinea pigs are
>>> invincible. I don't oppose reopening, but keep distancing and masking,
>>> despite what CDC says.
>>
>> Why would folks who have been fully vaccinated want to bother with a mask?
>> Isn't that an infringement on their rights? (paraphrasing the antimaskers'
>> attitudes earlier in the pandemic).
>>
>> After all, those who have CHOSEN to not be fully vaccinated have
>> made a decision in THEIR "best perceived interests". Shouldn't they
>> be left exposed to the consequences of their decisions?
>>
>> [News reporting Pfizer 80+ effective against the India variant (on
>> the rise in the US) but only 30+ effective for single dose. And,
>> of course, 0% for no doses!]
>>
> We shut down our morning breakfast of about 5 people when Covid started.
>
> We are starting up again Monday morning, but we have one member that refuses to
> get vaccinated.
>
> He is a conspiracy type and since he is not vaccinated, he is not being invited
> or made aware that we are getting together again. He made the choice.

Exactly. "We" should take the vaccine "risk" (in his mind) so HE can
be protected? No doubt he expects his wife to handle the birth
control so HE isn't inconvenienced...

A friend, early on, shrugged off the whole "virus thing". Had a big
dinner get-together with all of her girlfriends. *All* got sick. Friend
has had peripheral neuropathy (hands and feet) for 7 months, now...
(no idea what her girlfriends' ailments might be)

"Gee, was the dinner worth it? How much did the unexpected 'dessert'
(covid infection) end up costing you??"

lørdag den 12. juni 2021 kl. 21.00.59 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
> On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 08:08:46 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
> <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 8:02:51 AM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 10:08:13 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> >> > On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 6:46:33 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> >> > > On 6/11/2021 6:40 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
> >> > > > On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 5:47:01 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> >> > > >> On 6/11/2021 3:43 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
> >> > > >>> Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other countries into
> >> > > >>> shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine guinea pigs are
> >> > > >>> invincible. I don't oppose reopening, but keep distancing and masking,
> >> > > >>> despite what CDC says.
> >> > > >> Why would folks who have been fully vaccinated want to bother with a mask?
> >> > > >> Isn't that an infringement on their rights? (paraphrasing the antimaskers'
> >> > > >> attitudes earlier in the pandemic).
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> After all, those who have CHOSEN to not be fully vaccinated have
> >> > > >> made a decision in THEIR "best perceived interests". Shouldn't they
> >> > > >> be left exposed to the consequences of their decisions?
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> [News reporting Pfizer 80+ effective against the India variant (on
> >> > > >> the rise in the US) but only 30+ effective for single dose. And,
> >> > > >> of course, 0% for no doses!]
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I know of a senior housing complex which only take one-shot for all the residents, and no report of major illness so far. We only have single digit new daily cases for 700,000 population; so, it's still inconclusive either case.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > But the important point is:
> >> > > > "In keeping people out of the hospital with COVID-19, a single shot’s efficacy was estimated to be 80%."
> >> > > >
> >> > > > https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-03-03/single-shot-of-two-dose-covid-19-vaccine-can-prevent-serious-illness-and-death
> >> > > Old news. That reflects previous strains of the virus. As newer variants
> >> > > gain a foothold, the LOWER efficacies will become apparent.
> >> > >
> >> > > Just because you don't *die* doesn't mean you want to be *sick*.
> >> > > Everyone that I know who caught the virus has suffered some
> >> > > lingering effects. None of them are eager to repeat the
> >> > > experience (so you've got to wonder why other folks would
> >> > > expose themselves to that possibility).
> >> > >
> >> > > <https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/06/delta-covid-variant-update-does-the-moderna-vaccine-work-against-the-new-strain.html>
> >> > >
> >> > > 33% after one dose.
> >> > >
> >> > > <https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/06/delta-covid-variant-does-pfizer-vaccine-work-against-new-strain.html>
> >> > >
> >> > > also 33% after one dose.
> >> > >
> >> > > In a "disappointing" year, the flu vaccine is 60% effective. And, the
> >> > > consequences of an infection tend to be less than that of covid.
> >> > Locally, out of the 30% unvaccinated, hospitalization rate is 0.56%. Even one-shot would be a lot lower. There is a better chance of getting hit in auto accident.
> >> I don't understand. We take auto accidents very seriously, wearing seat belts, using air bags and having many laws about what you can and can not do. Are you suggesting we need to do the same for COVID? I agree!
> >
> >I am saying we need to keep social distancing and wearing masks until new cases get close to zero.
> The daily case rate in California is about 2% of peak. That's close to
> zero. Maybe false positives.
>
> The daily death rate is now about 1 PPM per day, but that may be
> over-stated too, as in covid-asigned gunshot and motorcycle wreck
> deaths.
>
> About twice as many people are dying from fentanyl in SF as from
> covid; the fantanyl is going up and the covid is going down. But our
> DA won't prosecute "low level" mass murderers.

that would mean the government prosecuting themselves, because the
main reason fentanyl is in circulation and people OD on random concentrations
is the war on drugs

On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 14:43:06 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

>lørdag den 12. juni 2021 kl. 21.00.59 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
>> On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 08:08:46 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
>> <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 8:02:51 AM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 10:08:13 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
>> >> > On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 6:46:33 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
>> >> > > On 6/11/2021 6:40 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
>> >> > > > On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 5:47:01 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
>> >> > > >> On 6/11/2021 3:43 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
>> >> > > >>> Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other countries into
>> >> > > >>> shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine guinea pigs are
>> >> > > >>> invincible. I don't oppose reopening, but keep distancing and masking,
>> >> > > >>> despite what CDC says.
>> >> > > >> Why would folks who have been fully vaccinated want to bother with a mask?
>> >> > > >> Isn't that an infringement on their rights? (paraphrasing the antimaskers'
>> >> > > >> attitudes earlier in the pandemic).
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> After all, those who have CHOSEN to not be fully vaccinated have
>> >> > > >> made a decision in THEIR "best perceived interests". Shouldn't they
>> >> > > >> be left exposed to the consequences of their decisions?
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> [News reporting Pfizer 80+ effective against the India variant (on
>> >> > > >> the rise in the US) but only 30+ effective for single dose. And,
>> >> > > >> of course, 0% for no doses!]
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > I know of a senior housing complex which only take one-shot for all the residents, and no report of major illness so far. We only have single digit new daily cases for 700,000 population; so, it's still inconclusive either case.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > But the important point is:
>> >> > > > "In keeping people out of the hospital with COVID-19, a single shot’s efficacy was estimated to be 80%."
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-03-03/single-shot-of-two-dose-covid-19-vaccine-can-prevent-serious-illness-and-death
>> >> > > Old news. That reflects previous strains of the virus. As newer variants
>> >> > > gain a foothold, the LOWER efficacies will become apparent.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Just because you don't *die* doesn't mean you want to be *sick*.
>> >> > > Everyone that I know who caught the virus has suffered some
>> >> > > lingering effects. None of them are eager to repeat the
>> >> > > experience (so you've got to wonder why other folks would
>> >> > > expose themselves to that possibility).
>> >> > >
>> >> > > <https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/06/delta-covid-variant-update-does-the-moderna-vaccine-work-against-the-new-strain.html>
>> >> > >
>> >> > > 33% after one dose.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > <https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/06/delta-covid-variant-does-pfizer-vaccine-work-against-new-strain.html>
>> >> > >
>> >> > > also 33% after one dose.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > In a "disappointing" year, the flu vaccine is 60% effective. And, the
>> >> > > consequences of an infection tend to be less than that of covid.
>> >> > Locally, out of the 30% unvaccinated, hospitalization rate is 0.56%. Even one-shot would be a lot lower. There is a better chance of getting hit in auto accident.
>> >> I don't understand. We take auto accidents very seriously, wearing seat belts, using air bags and having many laws about what you can and can not do. Are you suggesting we need to do the same for COVID? I agree!
>> >
>> >I am saying we need to keep social distancing and wearing masks until new cases get close to zero.
>> The daily case rate in California is about 2% of peak. That's close to
>> zero. Maybe false positives.
>>
>> The daily death rate is now about 1 PPM per day, but that may be
>> over-stated too, as in covid-asigned gunshot and motorcycle wreck
>> deaths.
>>
>> About twice as many people are dying from fentanyl in SF as from
>> covid; the fantanyl is going up and the covid is going down. But our
>> DA won't prosecute "low level" mass murderers.
>
>that would mean the government prosecuting themselves, because the
>main reason fentanyl is in circulation and people OD on random concentrations
>is the war on drugs

Makes no sense to me, unless you mean that the war on drugs isn't
being pursued hard enough.

Some day we'll have an IV drug that is incredible pleasurable and
instantly addictive and cheap to make. Fentanyl is a step in that
direction.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The best designs are necessarily accidental.

lørdag den 12. juni 2021 kl. 23.49.08 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
> On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 14:43:06 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:
>
> >lørdag den 12. juni 2021 kl. 21.00.59 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
> >> On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 08:08:46 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
> >> <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 8:02:51 AM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >> On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 10:08:13 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> >> >> > On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 6:46:33 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> >> >> > > On 6/11/2021 6:40 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
> >> >> > > > On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 5:47:01 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> >> >> > > >> On 6/11/2021 3:43 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
> >> >> > > >>> Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other countries into
> >> >> > > >>> shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine guinea pigs are
> >> >> > > >>> invincible. I don't oppose reopening, but keep distancing and masking,
> >> >> > > >>> despite what CDC says.
> >> >> > > >> Why would folks who have been fully vaccinated want to bother with a mask?
> >> >> > > >> Isn't that an infringement on their rights? (paraphrasing the antimaskers'
> >> >> > > >> attitudes earlier in the pandemic).
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> After all, those who have CHOSEN to not be fully vaccinated have
> >> >> > > >> made a decision in THEIR "best perceived interests". Shouldn't they
> >> >> > > >> be left exposed to the consequences of their decisions?
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> [News reporting Pfizer 80+ effective against the India variant (on
> >> >> > > >> the rise in the US) but only 30+ effective for single dose. And,
> >> >> > > >> of course, 0% for no doses!]
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > I know of a senior housing complex which only take one-shot for all the residents, and no report of major illness so far. We only have single digit new daily cases for 700,000 population; so, it's still inconclusive either case.
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > But the important point is:
> >> >> > > > "In keeping people out of the hospital with COVID-19, a single shot’s efficacy was estimated to be 80%."
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-03-03/single-shot-of-two-dose-covid-19-vaccine-can-prevent-serious-illness-and-death
> >> >> > > Old news. That reflects previous strains of the virus. As newer variants
> >> >> > > gain a foothold, the LOWER efficacies will become apparent.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Just because you don't *die* doesn't mean you want to be *sick*..
> >> >> > > Everyone that I know who caught the virus has suffered some
> >> >> > > lingering effects. None of them are eager to repeat the
> >> >> > > experience (so you've got to wonder why other folks would
> >> >> > > expose themselves to that possibility).
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > <https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/06/delta-covid-variant-update-does-the-moderna-vaccine-work-against-the-new-strain.html>
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > 33% after one dose.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > <https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/06/delta-covid-variant-does-pfizer-vaccine-work-against-new-strain.html>
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > also 33% after one dose.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > In a "disappointing" year, the flu vaccine is 60% effective. And, the
> >> >> > > consequences of an infection tend to be less than that of covid..
> >> >> > Locally, out of the 30% unvaccinated, hospitalization rate is 0.56%. Even one-shot would be a lot lower. There is a better chance of getting hit in auto accident.
> >> >> I don't understand. We take auto accidents very seriously, wearing seat belts, using air bags and having many laws about what you can and can not do. Are you suggesting we need to do the same for COVID? I agree!
> >> >
> >> >I am saying we need to keep social distancing and wearing masks until new cases get close to zero.
> >> The daily case rate in California is about 2% of peak. That's close to
> >> zero. Maybe false positives.
> >>
> >> The daily death rate is now about 1 PPM per day, but that may be
> >> over-stated too, as in covid-asigned gunshot and motorcycle wreck
> >> deaths.
> >>
> >> About twice as many people are dying from fentanyl in SF as from
> >> covid; the fantanyl is going up and the covid is going down. But our
> >> DA won't prosecute "low level" mass murderers.
> >
> >that would mean the government prosecuting themselves, because the
> >main reason fentanyl is in circulation and people OD on random concentrations
> >is the war on drugs
> Makes no sense to me, unless you mean that the war on drugs isn't
> being pursued hard enough.

it is because of the war on drugs that drugs are something people get in the street
with no idea what it contains, spiked with fentanyl because it is cheap and easy
to transport.

same thing happened during prohibition

>
> Some day we'll have an IV drug that is incredible pleasurable and
> instantly addictive and cheap to make. Fentanyl is a step in that
> direction.

and people will use it no matter what you do

On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:47:12 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> On 6/12/2021 8:08 AM, Ed Lee wrote:
>
> > I am saying we need to keep social distancing and wearing masks until new cases get close to zero.
> And I'm saying you're going to have an EXTREMELY hard time trying to get
> fully vaccinated people to continue wearing masks, socially distancing, etc.

Hardly. We have many laws on the books that protect the public from themselves, this is just another one that you obey or be fined or go to jail.

> "But, I got the vaccination so I didn't HAVE TO do so!
> Were they LYING when they used THAT as an incentive to
> get me to take the vaccination???"

WTF are you talking about? No one has promised that if you get vaccinated you won't have to wear a mask.

> Here's a big pile of toothpaste -- and an empty toothpaste tube.
> You're welcome to try to get the paste back INTO the tube!

You seem to not have been in the same reality.

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Rick C.

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On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 5:43:10 PM UTC-4, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> lørdag den 12. juni 2021 kl. 21.00.59 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
> > On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 08:08:46 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
> > <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 8:02:51 AM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 10:08:13 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> > >> > On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 6:46:33 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> > >> > > On 6/11/2021 6:40 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
> > >> > > > On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 5:47:01 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> > >> > > >> On 6/11/2021 3:43 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
> > >> > > >>> Over 10,000 daily new cases would normally scare most other countries into
> > >> > > >>> shutdown and lockdown. But the great American vaccine guinea pigs are
> > >> > > >>> invincible. I don't oppose reopening, but keep distancing and masking,
> > >> > > >>> despite what CDC says.
> > >> > > >> Why would folks who have been fully vaccinated want to bother with a mask?
> > >> > > >> Isn't that an infringement on their rights? (paraphrasing the antimaskers'
> > >> > > >> attitudes earlier in the pandemic).
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> After all, those who have CHOSEN to not be fully vaccinated have
> > >> > > >> made a decision in THEIR "best perceived interests". Shouldn't they
> > >> > > >> be left exposed to the consequences of their decisions?
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> [News reporting Pfizer 80+ effective against the India variant (on
> > >> > > >> the rise in the US) but only 30+ effective for single dose. And,
> > >> > > >> of course, 0% for no doses!]
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > I know of a senior housing complex which only take one-shot for all the residents, and no report of major illness so far. We only have single digit new daily cases for 700,000 population; so, it's still inconclusive either case.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > But the important point is:
> > >> > > > "In keeping people out of the hospital with COVID-19, a single shot’s efficacy was estimated to be 80%."
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-03-03/single-shot-of-two-dose-covid-19-vaccine-can-prevent-serious-illness-and-death
> > >> > > Old news. That reflects previous strains of the virus. As newer variants
> > >> > > gain a foothold, the LOWER efficacies will become apparent.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Just because you don't *die* doesn't mean you want to be *sick*.
> > >> > > Everyone that I know who caught the virus has suffered some
> > >> > > lingering effects. None of them are eager to repeat the
> > >> > > experience (so you've got to wonder why other folks would
> > >> > > expose themselves to that possibility).
> > >> > >
> > >> > > <https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/06/delta-covid-variant-update-does-the-moderna-vaccine-work-against-the-new-strain.html>
> > >> > >
> > >> > > 33% after one dose.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > <https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/06/delta-covid-variant-does-pfizer-vaccine-work-against-new-strain.html>
> > >> > >
> > >> > > also 33% after one dose.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > In a "disappointing" year, the flu vaccine is 60% effective. And, the
> > >> > > consequences of an infection tend to be less than that of covid.
> > >> > Locally, out of the 30% unvaccinated, hospitalization rate is 0.56%. Even one-shot would be a lot lower. There is a better chance of getting hit in auto accident.
> > >> I don't understand. We take auto accidents very seriously, wearing seat belts, using air bags and having many laws about what you can and can not do. Are you suggesting we need to do the same for COVID? I agree!
> > >
> > >I am saying we need to keep social distancing and wearing masks until new cases get close to zero.
> > The daily case rate in California is about 2% of peak. That's close to
> > zero. Maybe false positives.
> >
> > The daily death rate is now about 1 PPM per day, but that may be
> > over-stated too, as in covid-asigned gunshot and motorcycle wreck
> > deaths.
> >
> > About twice as many people are dying from fentanyl in SF as from
> > covid; the fantanyl is going up and the covid is going down. But our
> > DA won't prosecute "low level" mass murderers.
> that would mean the government prosecuting themselves, because the
> main reason fentanyl is in circulation and people OD on random concentrations
> is the war on drugs

Perhaps you could explain that one?

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Rick C.

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