https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.

On 10/27/2022 9:54 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
> They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
>

Average speed, meh.

Someone will win and more mountain stages make for better drama.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
> They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.

Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour.

Lou

On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 1:10:02 PM UTC-4, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
> > They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
> Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour.
>

Yup...8 out of the 21 are classified as sprint finishes, and a couple of those are rather lumpy. Even the only TT route has a pretty solid cat 3 climb (2.5K @ 9.5%).
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/oct/27/tour-de-france-announces-2023-routes
"Mountains and more mountains, but fewer chances for the sprinters characterise the men’s and women’s 2023 Tour de France routes"

I don't think they be breaking any speed records for this edition.

Detailed analysis at https://cyclingtips.com/2022/10/the-2023-tour-de-france-route-has-been-unveiled/

On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 11:47:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 1:10:02 PM UTC-4, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> > > https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
>> > They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
>> Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour.
>>
>
>Yup...8 out of the 21 are classified as sprint finishes, and a couple of those are rather lumpy. Even the only TT route has a pretty solid cat 3 climb (2.5K @ 9.5%).
>https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/oct/27/tour-de-france-announces-2023-routes
>"Mountains and more mountains, but fewer chances for the sprinters characterise the men’s and women’s 2023 Tour de France routes"
>
>I don't think they be breaking any speed records for this edition.
>
>Detailed analysis at https://cyclingtips.com/2022/10/the-2023-tour-de-france-route-has-been-unveiled/

I'm probaby going to miss it. I'll be going for a bike ride, instead.

On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:10:02 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
> > They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
> Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour.
Did you look at the map Lou? It appears to have 10 stages that are 70 miles long or less. I'm not arguing that there isn't a lot of climbing. But that the UCI is turning the Tour into a young man's race

On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 3:08:06 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 11:47:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 1:10:02 PM UTC-4, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> > > https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
> >> > They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
> >> Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour.
> >>
> >
> >Yup...8 out of the 21 are classified as sprint finishes, and a couple of those are rather lumpy. Even the only TT route has a pretty solid cat 3 climb (2.5K @ 9.5%).
> >https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/oct/27/tour-de-france-announces-2023-routes
> >"Mountains and more mountains, but fewer chances for the sprinters characterise the men’s and women’s 2023 Tour de France routes"
> >
> >I don't think they be breaking any speed records for this edition.
> >
> >Detailed analysis at https://cyclingtips.com/2022/10/the-2023-tour-de-france-route-has-been-unveiled/
> I'm probaby going to miss it. I'll be going for a bike ride, instead.

I'll be able to catch every stage, go for daily bike rides, and hold a full time job - just like I've done every year for the past couple of decades.
Pity that you're so inept you can't watch a few hours of a bike race and go for a ride everyday while being retired. I mean, I _does_ take a particular amount of testicular fortitude to be able to bump shoulders in a 40 mph sprint, fortitude which we know you aren't capable of unless your gun is handy. And yes, I've done that dozens of times over the decades of my racing experience, and posted the strava results to prove it.

Mock as you will, little kitty rider, we know it's simply a projection of your jealousy that you never had the balls to race. Stick to riding your tricycle on remote trails, we wouldn't want you to get hurt trying to ride with real cyclists..

On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 9:08:06 PM UTC+2, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 11:47:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 1:10:02 PM UTC-4, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> > > https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
> >> > They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
> >> Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour.
> >>
> >
> >Yup...8 out of the 21 are classified as sprint finishes, and a couple of those are rather lumpy. Even the only TT route has a pretty solid cat 3 climb (2.5K @ 9.5%).
> >https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/oct/27/tour-de-france-announces-2023-routes
> >"Mountains and more mountains, but fewer chances for the sprinters characterise the men’s and women’s 2023 Tour de France routes"
> >
> >I don't think they be breaking any speed records for this edition.
> >
> >Detailed analysis at https://cyclingtips.com/2022/10/the-2023-tour-de-france-route-has-been-unveiled/
> I'm probaby going to miss it. I'll be going for a bike ride, instead.

It is a free country. I can do both. Ride in the morning/early afternoon and watch the last 2 hours of the stage. Perfect day.

Lou

On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:03:42 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:10:02 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
> > > They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
> > Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour.
> Did you look at the map Lou? It appears to have 10 stages that are 70 miles long or less. I'm not arguing that there isn't a lot of climbing. But that the UCI is turning the Tour into a young man's race

So? The last couple of TdF were more exiting than all the TdF in the days of Merkx, Indurain and Hinault. Those were boring…

Lou

On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:22:07 PM UTC-4, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:03:42 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:10:02 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
> > > > They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
> > > Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour.
> > Did you look at the map Lou? It appears to have 10 stages that are 70 miles long or less. I'm not arguing that there isn't a lot of climbing. But that the UCI is turning the Tour into a young man's race
> So? The last couple of TdF were more exiting than all the TdF in the days of Merkx, Indurain and Hinault. Those were boring…
>

Aside from the 13 mile time trial, the shortest stage is the last day into the Champs-Élysées of 71 miles. The next shortest stage after that is stage 20 - 82 miles. There are only 6 stages under 100 miles.

I was going to give him the benefit of the doubt and suggest he was looking at the womens race, but that's only 8 stages, and only two of those are under 70 miles. So my first instinct was correct, he's just an idiot.

Besides that, It would be interesting for him to explain how making stages shorter is "turning it into a young mans race". The number of riders in the tour pelotons over the age of 35 has rarely measured more than 20 or so, and the oldest tour winner ever was only 36 (Firmin Lambot in 1922). In the modern era, Cadel Evans won in 2011 at age 34. It's _always_ been a young mans race. In the entire history of the tour, only 34 of the winners have been over 30 years old (even less if you throw out the armstrong wins).
https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/tour-de-france/2023/gc/history/youngest-and-oldest-winners

On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 1:22:07 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:03:42 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:10:02 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
> > > > They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
> > > Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour.
> > Did you look at the map Lou? It appears to have 10 stages that are 70 miles long or less. I'm not arguing that there isn't a lot of climbing. But that the UCI is turning the Tour into a young man's race
> So? The last couple of TdF were more exiting than all the TdF in the days of Merkx, Indurain and Hinault. Those were boring…
>
> Lou
Lou, you may think that they are more exciting but the riders cannot take that sort of punishment. Kids riding full out for 100 miles as if it were a criterium is going to show an increase in average speed which the Tour directors want in order to prove that dope makes no difference in the speeds. But older riders simply cannot take that sort of speed and the younger riders will become burned out in two or three years. What happens to the Tour then?

On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 11:51:34 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 1:22:07 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:03:42 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:10:02 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
> > > > > They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
> > > > Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour.
> > > Did you look at the map Lou? It appears to have 10 stages that are 70 miles long or less. I'm not arguing that there isn't a lot of climbing. But that the UCI is turning the Tour into a young man's race
> > So? The last couple of TdF were more exiting than all the TdF in the days of Merkx, Indurain and Hinault. Those were boring…
> >
> > Lou
> Lou, you may think that they are more exciting but the riders cannot take that sort of punishment. Kids riding full out for 100 miles as if it were a criterium is going to show an increase in average speed which the Tour directors want in order to prove that dope makes no difference in the speeds. But older riders simply cannot take that sort of speed and the younger riders will become burned out in two or three years. What happens to the Tour then?

Nonsense.

Lou

On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 2:55:03 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 11:51:34 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 1:22:07 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:03:42 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:10:02 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > > https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
> > > > > > They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
> > > > > Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour.
> > > > Did you look at the map Lou? It appears to have 10 stages that are 70 miles long or less. I'm not arguing that there isn't a lot of climbing. But that the UCI is turning the Tour into a young man's race
> > > So? The last couple of TdF were more exiting than all the TdF in the days of Merkx, Indurain and Hinault. Those were boring…
> > >
> > > Lou
> > Lou, you may think that they are more exciting but the riders cannot take that sort of punishment. Kids riding full out for 100 miles as if it were a criterium is going to show an increase in average speed which the Tour directors want in order to prove that dope makes no difference in the speeds. But older riders simply cannot take that sort of speed and the younger riders will become burned out in two or three years. What happens to the Tour then?
> Nonsense.

When 20 year olds are winning major races just watch what happens.

On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 13:18:51 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
<lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 9:08:06 PM UTC+2, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 11:47:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 1:10:02 PM UTC-4, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> > > https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
>> >> > They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
>> >> Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Yup...8 out of the 21 are classified as sprint finishes, and a couple of those are rather lumpy. Even the only TT route has a pretty solid cat 3 climb (2.5K @ 9.5%).
>> >https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/oct/27/tour-de-france-announces-2023-routes
>> >"Mountains and more mountains, but fewer chances for the sprinters characterise the men’s and women’s 2023 Tour de France routes"
>> >
>> >I don't think they be breaking any speed records for this edition.
>> >
>> >Detailed analysis at https://cyclingtips.com/2022/10/the-2023-tour-de-france-route-has-been-unveiled/
>> I'm probaby going to miss it. I'll be going for a bike ride, instead.
>
>It is a free country. I can do both. Ride in the morning/early afternoon and watch the last 2 hours of the stage. Perfect day.
>
>Lou

I already know the ending. Some guy I never heard of wearing a bright
colored tight suit will win while some loud mouthed announcer will
scream and shout about it.

On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 9:18:52 PM UTC+1, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 9:08:06 PM UTC+2, Catrike Rider wrote:
> > On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 11:47:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> > <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 1:10:02 PM UTC-4, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >> > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > >> > > https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
> > >> > They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
> > >> Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour.
> > >>
> > >
> > >Yup...8 out of the 21 are classified as sprint finishes, and a couple of those are rather lumpy. Even the only TT route has a pretty solid cat 3 climb (2.5K @ 9.5%).
> > >https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/oct/27/tour-de-france-announces-2023-routes
> > >"Mountains and more mountains, but fewer chances for the sprinters characterise the men’s and women’s 2023 Tour de France routes"
> > >
> > >I don't think they be breaking any speed records for this edition.
> > >
> > >Detailed analysis at https://cyclingtips.com/2022/10/the-2023-tour-de-france-route-has-been-unveiled/
> > I'm probaby going to miss it. I'll be going for a bike ride, instead.
> It is a free country. I can do both. Ride in the morning/early afternoon and watch the last 2 hours of the stage. Perfect day.
>
> Lou
>
Perfect when your wife brings you an ice-cold cider. -- AJ
>

On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 13:09:41 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 3:08:06 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 11:47:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 1:10:02 PM UTC-4, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> > > https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
>> >> > They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
>> >> Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Yup...8 out of the 21 are classified as sprint finishes, and a couple of those are rather lumpy. Even the only TT route has a pretty solid cat 3 climb (2.5K @ 9.5%).
>> >https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/oct/27/tour-de-france-announces-2023-routes
>> >"Mountains and more mountains, but fewer chances for the sprinters characterise the men’s and women’s 2023 Tour de France routes"
>> >
>> >I don't think they be breaking any speed records for this edition.
>> >
>> >Detailed analysis at https://cyclingtips.com/2022/10/the-2023-tour-de-france-route-has-been-unveiled/
>> I'm probaby going to miss it. I'll be going for a bike ride, instead.
>
> I'll be able to catch every stage, go for daily bike rides, and hold a full time job - just like I've done every year for the past couple of decades.
>Pity that you're so inept you can't watch a few hours of a bike race

I've never been interested in watching other people do stuff. I'm more
of a doer than a watcher. Watching other people do stuff is boring,
unless it's someone I care about or offer good music. I never
understood people getting all excited watching sporting events when
they don't know anyone on either team.

>and go for a ride everyday while being retired. I mean, I _does_ take a particular amount of testicular fortitude to be able to bump shoulders in a 40 mph sprint, fortitude which we know you aren't capable of unless your gun is handy. And yes, I've done that dozens of times over the decades of my racing experience, and posted the strava results to prove it.

So I take it that you like having others see what you're doing, and
you're kind of like Kylwoski in that you like being part of a big
group of similarly dressed people who are doing the same thing as you.
Groups of people annoy me and I'd always have to consider their wants,
needs, whatever. I'm happy to do that for those I care about, but not
for anyone else. For the most part, I prefer doing things by myself.

>Mock as you will, little kitty rider, we know it's simply a projection of your jealousy that you never had the balls to race. Stick to riding your tricycle on remote trails, we wouldn't want you to get hurt trying to ride with real cyclists..

I tried rebuilding a sports car and racing it, but I found the
rebuilding was more interesting than the racing. I'm more interested
in challenging myself, like teaching myself to sail and navigate and
single hand my 36 foot sloop off to the Bahamas, Turks and Caicos. I
had a compass, a couple of hand held GPS, a compass_not_GPS_driven
wheel control and a depth gauge. I didn't realize how woefully
unequiped I was. Later I added on board GPS, a GPS wheel control
system and radar, although I didn't go out single handed much after
that because I had a First Mate to handle the boat while I slept.

Scuba diving was another challenge, that came in handy on that sailing
trip, although I broke all the rules by doing it solo. I couldn't dive
as much as I wanted because of the difficulty of getting air. I'd
taught my self to spearfish, and luckily I could do that snorkeling or
free diving. BTW, I did have a gun with me on that trip. I'm confident
that most everyone who goes out in international waters does.

As far as bicycling, I, like you could ride faster than some people,
but not as fast as others. IMO, the trick about racing is to simply
find a bunch of others people who you can compete with. It's never
interested me.

On 10/27/2022 3:03 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:10:02 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
>>> They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
>> Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour.
> Did you look at the map Lou? It appears to have 10 stages that are 70 miles long or less. I'm not arguing that there isn't a lot of climbing. But that the UCI is turning the Tour into a young man's race
>

turning?

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 10/27/2022 4:51 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 1:22:07 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:03:42 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:10:02 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
>>>>> They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
>>>> Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour.
>>> Did you look at the map Lou? It appears to have 10 stages that are 70 miles long or less. I'm not arguing that there isn't a lot of climbing. But that the UCI is turning the Tour into a young man's race
>> So? The last couple of TdF were more exiting than all the TdF in the days of Merkx, Indurain and Hinault. Those were boring…
>>
>> Lou
> Lou, you may think that they are more exciting but the riders cannot take that sort of punishment. Kids riding full out for 100 miles as if it were a criterium is going to show an increase in average speed which the Tour directors want in order to prove that dope makes no difference in the speeds. But older riders simply cannot take that sort of speed and the younger riders will become burned out in two or three years. What happens to the Tour then?
>

If that is true, what happens? New peloton!

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 10/27/2022 5:06 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 2:55:03 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 11:51:34 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 1:22:07 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:03:42 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:10:02 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>> https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
>>>>>>> They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
>>>>>> Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour.
>>>>> Did you look at the map Lou? It appears to have 10 stages that are 70 miles long or less. I'm not arguing that there isn't a lot of climbing. But that the UCI is turning the Tour into a young man's race
>>>> So? The last couple of TdF were more exiting than all the TdF in the days of Merkx, Indurain and Hinault. Those were boring…
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>> Lou, you may think that they are more exciting but the riders cannot take that sort of punishment. Kids riding full out for 100 miles as if it were a criterium is going to show an increase in average speed which the Tour directors want in order to prove that dope makes no difference in the speeds. But older riders simply cannot take that sort of speed and the younger riders will become burned out in two or three years. What happens to the Tour then?
>> Nonsense.
>
> When 20 year olds are winning major races just watch what happens.
>

OK I give up. What happens?
Life returns to normal? Or what?

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 12:17:41 AM UTC+2, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 13:18:51 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
> <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 9:08:06 PM UTC+2, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 11:47:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
> >> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 1:10:02 PM UTC-4, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> >> > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> > > https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
> >> >> > They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
> >> >> Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Yup...8 out of the 21 are classified as sprint finishes, and a couple of those are rather lumpy. Even the only TT route has a pretty solid cat 3 climb (2.5K @ 9.5%).
> >> >https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/oct/27/tour-de-france-announces-2023-routes
> >> >"Mountains and more mountains, but fewer chances for the sprinters characterise the men’s and women’s 2023 Tour de France routes"
> >> >
> >> >I don't think they be breaking any speed records for this edition.
> >> >
> >> >Detailed analysis at https://cyclingtips.com/2022/10/the-2023-tour-de-france-route-has-been-unveiled/
> >> I'm probaby going to miss it. I'll be going for a bike ride, instead.
> >
> >It is a free country. I can do both. Ride in the morning/early afternoon and watch the last 2 hours of the stage. Perfect day.
> >
> >Lou
> I already know the ending. Some guy I never heard of wearing a bright
> colored tight suit will win while some loud mouthed announcer will
> scream and shout about it.

That is settled then. If you not interested just don’t watch or comment on. I’m not interested in riding a tricycle, a tandem or loaded touring. I just shut up when it comes up here. Works great for both ‘sides’. You may try it yourself sometimes.

Lou

On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 12:06:06 AM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 2:55:03 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 11:51:34 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 1:22:07 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:03:42 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:10:02 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > > > https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
> > > > > > > They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
> > > > > > Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour.
> > > > > Did you look at the map Lou? It appears to have 10 stages that are 70 miles long or less. I'm not arguing that there isn't a lot of climbing.. But that the UCI is turning the Tour into a young man's race
> > > > So? The last couple of TdF were more exiting than all the TdF in the days of Merkx, Indurain and Hinault. Those were boring…
> > > >
> > > > Lou
> > > Lou, you may think that they are more exciting but the riders cannot take that sort of punishment. Kids riding full out for 100 miles as if it were a criterium is going to show an increase in average speed which the Tour directors want in order to prove that dope makes no difference in the speeds. But older riders simply cannot take that sort of speed and the younger riders will become burned out in two or three years. What happens to the Tour then?
> > Nonsense.
> When 20 year olds are winning major races just watch what happens.

How old was LA when he won the world championship in Oslo? I think he was in the early twenties. Is/was he not your hero?

Lou

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 02:39:53 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
<lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 12:17:41 AM UTC+2, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 13:18:51 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
>> <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 9:08:06 PM UTC+2, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 11:47:59 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
>> >> <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 1:10:02 PM UTC-4, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> >> On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> >> > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >> > > https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
>> >> >> > They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
>> >> >> Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Yup...8 out of the 21 are classified as sprint finishes, and a couple of those are rather lumpy. Even the only TT route has a pretty solid cat 3 climb (2.5K @ 9.5%).
>> >> >https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/oct/27/tour-de-france-announces-2023-routes
>> >> >"Mountains and more mountains, but fewer chances for the sprinters characterise the men’s and women’s 2023 Tour de France routes"
>> >> >
>> >> >I don't think they be breaking any speed records for this edition.
>> >> >
>> >> >Detailed analysis at https://cyclingtips.com/2022/10/the-2023-tour-de-france-route-has-been-unveiled/
>> >> I'm probaby going to miss it. I'll be going for a bike ride, instead.
>> >
>> >It is a free country. I can do both. Ride in the morning/early afternoon and watch the last 2 hours of the stage. Perfect day.
>> >
>> >Lou
>> I already know the ending. Some guy I never heard of wearing a bright
>> colored tight suit will win while some loud mouthed announcer will
>> scream and shout about it.
>
>That is settled then. If you not interested just don’t watch or comment on. I’m not interested in riding a tricycle, a tandem or loaded touring. I just shut up when it comes up here. Works great for both ‘sides’. You may try it yourself sometimes.
>
>Lou

1) You guys are all I have to talk to when my wife busy is in her
room painting.

2) A couple of guys here often comment about my activities ao I feel
obligated to return the favor.

On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 5:43:06 AM UTC-4, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 12:06:06 AM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 2:55:03 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 11:51:34 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 1:22:07 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:03:42 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:10:02 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > > > > https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
> > > > > > > > They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
> > > > > > > Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour..
> > > > > > Did you look at the map Lou? It appears to have 10 stages that are 70 miles long or less. I'm not arguing that there isn't a lot of climbing. But that the UCI is turning the Tour into a young man's race
> > > > > So? The last couple of TdF were more exiting than all the TdF in the days of Merkx, Indurain and Hinault. Those were boring…
> > > > >
> > > > > Lou
> > > > Lou, you may think that they are more exciting but the riders cannot take that sort of punishment. Kids riding full out for 100 miles as if it were a criterium is going to show an increase in average speed which the Tour directors want in order to prove that dope makes no difference in the speeds. But older riders simply cannot take that sort of speed and the younger riders will become burned out in two or three years. What happens to the Tour then?
> > > Nonsense.
> > When 20 year olds are winning major races just watch what happens.
> How old was LA when he won the world championship in Oslo? I think he was in the early twenties. Is/was he not your hero?
>
> Lou

The youngest TdF winner was Henri Cornet who won the 1904 tour two weeks shy of his 20th birthday. François Faber won the 1909 tour at age 22. More recently Both Tadej Pogačar and Egan Bernal both won the GC when they still qualified for the U23 category. Young riders have been winning the tour since it was first started.

On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 5:43:06 AM UTC-4, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 12:06:06 AM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 2:55:03 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 11:51:34 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 1:22:07 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:03:42 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 10:10:02 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:54:55 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 6:48:54 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > > > > https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20221027-routes-unveiled-for-the-men-s-and-women-s-2023-tour-de-france
> > > > > > > > They are increasing the average race speed by including a lot of short flat states.
> > > > > > > Huh..??. Did you looked at the parcours? It is a climber Tour..
> > > > > > Did you look at the map Lou? It appears to have 10 stages that are 70 miles long or less. I'm not arguing that there isn't a lot of climbing. But that the UCI is turning the Tour into a young man's race
> > > > > So? The last couple of TdF were more exiting than all the TdF in the days of Merkx, Indurain and Hinault. Those were boring…
> > > > >
> > > > > Lou
> > > > Lou, you may think that they are more exciting but the riders cannot take that sort of punishment. Kids riding full out for 100 miles as if it were a criterium is going to show an increase in average speed which the Tour directors want in order to prove that dope makes no difference in the speeds. But older riders simply cannot take that sort of speed and the younger riders will become burned out in two or three years. What happens to the Tour then?
> > > Nonsense.
> > When 20 year olds are winning major races just watch what happens.
> How old was LA when he won the world championship in Oslo? I think he was in the early twenties. Is/was he not your hero?
>

As far as the world championships, the youngest winner was Karel Kaers in 1934 at age 20, followed by Jean-Pierre Monseré in 1970 at almost age 22. Armstrong won 3 weeks shy of his 22nd birthday, and Lemond both won at age 22

Take the Paris Roubaix - Albert Champion won in 1899 at almost age 21, and Eddy Merckx won in 1968 at age 22.

young 20-somethings have been winning major races since bike racing began.