This is an interesting study, since they compared MRI scans of the
brain of many people, before and after having covid.
Obviously the availability of pre-infection imaging data helps
avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical
conditions being mis-interpreted as disease effects.

"We used structural and functional brain scans from before
and after infection, to compare longitudinal brain changes
between these 394 COVID-19 patients and 388 controls who
were matched for age, sex, ethnicity and interval between
scans. We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the
brain with a loss of grey matter in the [...several different
and widespread areas]."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34189535/

Death is the least of it, particularly since many of the
dead would have been harvested in the near future with or
without covid.

On 7/7/2021 4:51 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
> This is an interesting study, since they compared MRI scans of the
> brain of many people, before and after having covid.
> Obviously the availability of pre-infection imaging data helps
> avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical
> conditions being mis-interpreted as disease effects.
>
> "We used structural and functional brain scans from before
> and after infection, to compare longitudinal brain changes
> between these 394 COVID-19 patients and 388 controls who
> were matched for age, sex, ethnicity and interval between
> scans. We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the
> brain with a loss of grey matter in the [...several different
> and widespread areas]."
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34189535/
>
> Death is the least of it, particularly since many of the
> dead would have been harvested in the near future with or
> without covid.

Awww, cmon... we all KNOW it's no worse than the *flu*.....

<rolls eyes>

The interesting thing will be the inevitable followup studies
(when the smoke clears from the battle) that will come along
in the next few years exposing other "issues" that those
afflicted will have to deal with going forward.

Any appreciable/measurable impact on lifespan? Quality
of life in later years? etc.

I wonder if the damage to lung tissue will result in
more cases of COPD et al. depriving folks of vitality
later in life...

[Apparently some evidence of heart damage, as well.
Will we see an increase in heart attacks? Heart
failure? Thrown clots?]

On 08/07/21 02:18, Don Y wrote:
> On 7/7/2021 4:51 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>> This is an interesting study, since they compared MRI scans of the
>> brain of many people, before and after having covid.
>> Obviously the availability of pre-infection imaging data helps
>> avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical
>> conditions being mis-interpreted as disease effects.
>>
>> "We used structural and functional brain scans from before
>> and after infection, to compare longitudinal brain changes
>> between these 394 COVID-19 patients and 388 controls who
>> were matched for age, sex, ethnicity and interval between
>> scans. We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the
>> brain with a loss of grey matter in the [...several different
>> and widespread areas]."
>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34189535/
>>
>> Death is the least of it, particularly since many of the
>> dead would have been harvested in the near future with or
>> without covid.
>
> Awww, cmon... we all KNOW it's no worse than the *flu*.....
>
> <rolls eyes>
>
> The interesting thing will be the inevitable followup studies
> (when the smoke clears from the battle) that will come along
> in the next few years exposing other "issues" that those
> afflicted will have to deal with going forward.

There's a *lot* of research on long covid happening here.
I'm one of the 500k people in the BioBank study, but not
one of the 40k that had MRI scans.

I've just been informed that another longitudinal study
I've been in involved in (ALSPAC / Children of the 90s)
will be doing some research on it.

On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 16:03:33 +0100, Tom Gardner
<spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>On 08/07/21 02:18, Don Y wrote:
>> On 7/7/2021 4:51 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>> This is an interesting study, since they compared MRI scans of the
>>> brain of many people, before and after having covid.
>>> Obviously the availability of pre-infection imaging data helps
>>> avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical
>>> conditions being mis-interpreted as disease effects.
>>>
>>> "We used structural and functional brain scans from before
>>> and after infection, to compare longitudinal brain changes
>>> between these 394 COVID-19 patients and 388 controls who
>>> were matched for age, sex, ethnicity and interval between
>>> scans. We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the
>>> brain with a loss of grey matter in the [...several different
>>> and widespread areas]."
>>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34189535/
>>>
>>> Death is the least of it, particularly since many of the
>>> dead would have been harvested in the near future with or
>>> without covid.
>>
>> Awww, cmon... we all KNOW it's no worse than the *flu*.....
>>
>> <rolls eyes>
>>
>> The interesting thing will be the inevitable followup studies
>> (when the smoke clears from the battle) that will come along
>> in the next few years exposing other "issues" that those
>> afflicted will have to deal with going forward.
>
>There's a *lot* of research on long covid happening here.
>I'm one of the 500k people in the BioBank study, but not
>one of the 40k that had MRI scans.
>
>I've just been informed that another longitudinal study
>I've been in involved in (ALSPAC / Children of the 90s)
>will be doing some research on it.

It would be interesting to see if any brain functions get *better*
after covid.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The best designs are necessarily accidental.

On 7/8/2021 8:03 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 08/07/21 02:18, Don Y wrote:
>> On 7/7/2021 4:51 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>> This is an interesting study, since they compared MRI scans of the
>>> brain of many people, before and after having covid.
>>> Obviously the availability of pre-infection imaging data helps
>>> avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical
>>> conditions being mis-interpreted as disease effects.
>>>
>>> "We used structural and functional brain scans from before
>>> and after infection, to compare longitudinal brain changes
>>> between these 394 COVID-19 patients and 388 controls who
>>> were matched for age, sex, ethnicity and interval between
>>> scans. We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the
>>> brain with a loss of grey matter in the [...several different
>>> and widespread areas]."
>>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34189535/
>>>
>>> Death is the least of it, particularly since many of the
>>> dead would have been harvested in the near future with or
>>> without covid.
>>
>> Awww, cmon... we all KNOW it's no worse than the *flu*.....
>>
>> <rolls eyes>
>>
>> The interesting thing will be the inevitable followup studies
>> (when the smoke clears from the battle) that will come along
>> in the next few years exposing other "issues" that those
>> afflicted will have to deal with going forward.
>
> There's a *lot* of research on long covid happening here.

I suspect there is stuff going on, here, but we don't
hear about it. At least, one would HOPE there is!

> I'm one of the 500k people in the BioBank study, but not
> one of the 40k that had MRI scans.

With your NHS, the NHS can decide to fund such a study -- as
it is in their best interests to discover the present and
future consequences (i.e., COSTS); then it's just a case of
signing up "volunteers" (?).

Here, some third party would have to propose such a study
and get funding to conduct it before even beginning to
approach "volunteers".

> I've just been informed that another longitudinal study
> I've been in involved in (ALSPAC / Children of the 90s)
> will be doing some research on it.

But we'll not know what happens "down the road" until
some time DOWN the road! By then, of course, it will
be too late to act as an incentivizer to coax people
to "avoid at all costs". (instead, they'll piss and moan
that "they didn't KNOW" and one should feel sorry for them!)

[People being notoriously bad at making long-term decisions]

On 08/07/21 16:28, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 16:03:33 +0100, Tom Gardner
> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 08/07/21 02:18, Don Y wrote:
>>> On 7/7/2021 4:51 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>> This is an interesting study, since they compared MRI scans of the
>>>> brain of many people, before and after having covid.
>>>> Obviously the availability of pre-infection imaging data helps
>>>> avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical
>>>> conditions being mis-interpreted as disease effects.
>>>>
>>>> "We used structural and functional brain scans from before
>>>> and after infection, to compare longitudinal brain changes
>>>> between these 394 COVID-19 patients and 388 controls who
>>>> were matched for age, sex, ethnicity and interval between
>>>> scans. We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the
>>>> brain with a loss of grey matter in the [...several different
>>>> and widespread areas]."
>>>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34189535/
>>>>
>>>> Death is the least of it, particularly since many of the
>>>> dead would have been harvested in the near future with or
>>>> without covid.
>>>
>>> Awww, cmon... we all KNOW it's no worse than the *flu*.....
>>>
>>> <rolls eyes>
>>>
>>> The interesting thing will be the inevitable followup studies
>>> (when the smoke clears from the battle) that will come along
>>> in the next few years exposing other "issues" that those
>>> afflicted will have to deal with going forward.
>>
>> There's a *lot* of research on long covid happening here.
>> I'm one of the 500k people in the BioBank study, but not
>> one of the 40k that had MRI scans.
>>
>> I've just been informed that another longitudinal study
>> I've been in involved in (ALSPAC / Children of the 90s)
>> will be doing some research on it.
>
> It would be interesting to see if any brain functions get *better*
> after covid.

Unlikely, unless you can hypothesise a cause and effect.

On 08/07/21 16:43, Don Y wrote:
> On 7/8/2021 8:03 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>> On 08/07/21 02:18, Don Y wrote:
>>> On 7/7/2021 4:51 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>> This is an interesting study, since they compared MRI scans of the
>>>> brain of many people, before and after having covid.
>>>> Obviously the availability of pre-infection imaging data helps
>>>> avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical
>>>> conditions being mis-interpreted as disease effects.
>>>>
>>>> "We used structural and functional brain scans from before
>>>> and after infection, to compare longitudinal brain changes
>>>> between these 394 COVID-19 patients and 388 controls who
>>>> were matched for age, sex, ethnicity and interval between
>>>> scans. We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the
>>>> brain with a loss of grey matter in the [...several different
>>>> and widespread areas]."
>>>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34189535/
>>>>
>>>> Death is the least of it, particularly since many of the
>>>> dead would have been harvested in the near future with or
>>>> without covid.
>>>
>>> Awww, cmon... we all KNOW it's no worse than the *flu*.....
>>>
>>> <rolls eyes>
>>>
>>> The interesting thing will be the inevitable followup studies
>>> (when the smoke clears from the battle) that will come along
>>> in the next few years exposing other "issues" that those
>>> afflicted will have to deal with going forward.
>>
>> There's a *lot* of research on long covid happening here.
>
> I suspect there is stuff going on, here, but we don't
> hear about it.  At least, one would HOPE there is!
>
>> I'm one of the 500k people in the BioBank study, but not
>> one of the 40k that had MRI scans.
>
> With your NHS, the NHS can decide to fund such a study -- as
> it is in their best interests to discover the present and
> future consequences (i.e., COSTS); then it's just a case of
> signing up "volunteers" (?).
>
> Here, some third party would have to propose such a study
> and get funding to conduct it before even beginning to
> approach "volunteers".

Neither ALSPAC nor BioBank are NHS; they are academic
research studies.

>> I've just been informed that another longitudinal study
>> I've been in involved in (ALSPAC / Children of the 90s)
>> will be doing some research on it.
>
> But we'll not know what happens "down the road" until
> some time DOWN the road!  By then, of course, it will
> be too late to act as an incentivizer to coax people
> to "avoid at all costs".  (instead, they'll piss and moan
> that "they didn't KNOW" and one should feel sorry for them!)
>
> [People being notoriously bad at making long-term decisions]

Yes.

And they are notoriously bad at judging risk. That makes
our Trump-lite PM's statements that we should make our
own decisions about masks etc foolish.

But then BoJo is no more than a court jester anyway.

On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 17:38:25 +0100, Tom Gardner
<spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>On 08/07/21 16:28, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 16:03:33 +0100, Tom Gardner
>> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/07/21 02:18, Don Y wrote:
>>>> On 7/7/2021 4:51 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>> This is an interesting study, since they compared MRI scans of the
>>>>> brain of many people, before and after having covid.
>>>>> Obviously the availability of pre-infection imaging data helps
>>>>> avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical
>>>>> conditions being mis-interpreted as disease effects.
>>>>>
>>>>> "We used structural and functional brain scans from before
>>>>> and after infection, to compare longitudinal brain changes
>>>>> between these 394 COVID-19 patients and 388 controls who
>>>>> were matched for age, sex, ethnicity and interval between
>>>>> scans. We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the
>>>>> brain with a loss of grey matter in the [...several different
>>>>> and widespread areas]."
>>>>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34189535/
>>>>>
>>>>> Death is the least of it, particularly since many of the
>>>>> dead would have been harvested in the near future with or
>>>>> without covid.
>>>>
>>>> Awww, cmon... we all KNOW it's no worse than the *flu*.....
>>>>
>>>> <rolls eyes>
>>>>
>>>> The interesting thing will be the inevitable followup studies
>>>> (when the smoke clears from the battle) that will come along
>>>> in the next few years exposing other "issues" that those
>>>> afflicted will have to deal with going forward.
>>>
>>> There's a *lot* of research on long covid happening here.
>>> I'm one of the 500k people in the BioBank study, but not
>>> one of the 40k that had MRI scans.
>>>
>>> I've just been informed that another longitudinal study
>>> I've been in involved in (ALSPAC / Children of the 90s)
>>> will be doing some research on it.
>>
>> It would be interesting to see if any brain functions get *better*
>> after covid.
>
>Unlikely, unless you can hypothesise a cause and effect.

I've ordered "Drunk" by Edward Slingerland. One of his ideas is that
alcohol preferentially numbs the frontal cortex, and the cortex is the
prudent, cautious, people-don't-do-that part. So alcohol (and other
things) in mild doses enhance creativity. Artists are notorious
drunks.

I had Covid in April 2020. I had some long-term effects, mostly gone
now, but I think I'm better at inventing electronics now. That's just
possible.

My athletic abilities are sure improved by one rum and coke. I think
less, react better.

There are times to think, and times when it's best to not overdo it.

On 2021-07-08 19:00, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 17:38:25 +0100, Tom Gardner
> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 08/07/21 16:28, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 16:03:33 +0100, Tom Gardner
>>> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08/07/21 02:18, Don Y wrote:
>>>>> On 7/7/2021 4:51 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>>> This is an interesting study, since they compared MRI scans of the
>>>>>> brain of many people, before and after having covid.
>>>>>> Obviously the availability of pre-infection imaging data helps
>>>>>> avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical
>>>>>> conditions being mis-interpreted as disease effects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "We used structural and functional brain scans from before
>>>>>> and after infection, to compare longitudinal brain changes
>>>>>> between these 394 COVID-19 patients and 388 controls who
>>>>>> were matched for age, sex, ethnicity and interval between
>>>>>> scans. We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the
>>>>>> brain with a loss of grey matter in the [...several different
>>>>>> and widespread areas]."
>>>>>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34189535/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Death is the least of it, particularly since many of the
>>>>>> dead would have been harvested in the near future with or
>>>>>> without covid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Awww, cmon... we all KNOW it's no worse than the *flu*.....
>>>>>
>>>>> <rolls eyes>
>>>>>
>>>>> The interesting thing will be the inevitable followup studies
>>>>> (when the smoke clears from the battle) that will come along
>>>>> in the next few years exposing other "issues" that those
>>>>> afflicted will have to deal with going forward.
>>>>
>>>> There's a *lot* of research on long covid happening here.
>>>> I'm one of the 500k people in the BioBank study, but not
>>>> one of the 40k that had MRI scans.
>>>>
>>>> I've just been informed that another longitudinal study
>>>> I've been in involved in (ALSPAC / Children of the 90s)
>>>> will be doing some research on it.
>>>
>>> It would be interesting to see if any brain functions get *better*
>>> after covid.
>>
>> Unlikely, unless you can hypothesise a cause and effect.
>
> I've ordered "Drunk" by Edward Slingerland. One of his ideas is that
> alcohol preferentially numbs the frontal cortex, and the cortex is the
> prudent, cautious, people-don't-do-that part. So alcohol (and other
> things) in mild doses enhance creativity. Artists are notorious
> drunks.
>
> I had Covid in April 2020. I had some long-term effects, mostly gone
> now, but I think I'm better at inventing electronics now. That's just
> possible.
>
> My athletic abilities are sure improved by one rum and coke. I think
> less, react better.
>
> There are times to think, and times when it's best to not overdo it.
>

I'm an avid Argentine Tango dancer. I find that as little as a single
glass of wine thoroughly destroys my ability to dance properly, even
though it seems to have little or no effect on my performance in
most other activities, even other dances. Argentine Tango dancing
is special that way. It requires a clear head, concentration,
creativity and a lot of other more subtle things. Only a little bit
of alcohol messes that up, and my partners notice.

Jeroen Belleman

On 08/07/2021 18:20, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

<snipped>

>
> I'm an avid Argentine Tango dancer. I find that as little as a single
> glass of wine thoroughly destroys my ability to dance properly, even
> though it seems to have little or no effect on my performance in
> most other activities, even other dances.

I dance /much/ better after a few beers.

In my opinion.

--
Cheers
Clive

On 2021-07-08 19:25, Clive Arthur wrote:
> On 08/07/2021 18:20, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>
> <snipped>
>
>>
>> I'm an avid Argentine Tango dancer. I find that as little as a single
>> glass of wine thoroughly destroys my ability to dance properly, even
>> though it seems to have little or no effect on my performance in
>> most other activities, even other dances.
>
> I dance /much/ better after a few beers.
>
> In my opinion.
>

I must be a rather more severe judge of my own ability...

Jeroen Belleman

On Thu, 08 Jul 2021 19:20:52 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

>On 2021-07-08 19:00, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 17:38:25 +0100, Tom Gardner
>> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/07/21 16:28, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 16:03:33 +0100, Tom Gardner
>>>> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 08/07/21 02:18, Don Y wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/7/2021 4:51 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>>>> This is an interesting study, since they compared MRI scans of the
>>>>>>> brain of many people, before and after having covid.
>>>>>>> Obviously the availability of pre-infection imaging data helps
>>>>>>> avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical
>>>>>>> conditions being mis-interpreted as disease effects.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "We used structural and functional brain scans from before
>>>>>>> and after infection, to compare longitudinal brain changes
>>>>>>> between these 394 COVID-19 patients and 388 controls who
>>>>>>> were matched for age, sex, ethnicity and interval between
>>>>>>> scans. We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the
>>>>>>> brain with a loss of grey matter in the [...several different
>>>>>>> and widespread areas]."
>>>>>>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34189535/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Death is the least of it, particularly since many of the
>>>>>>> dead would have been harvested in the near future with or
>>>>>>> without covid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Awww, cmon... we all KNOW it's no worse than the *flu*.....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <rolls eyes>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The interesting thing will be the inevitable followup studies
>>>>>> (when the smoke clears from the battle) that will come along
>>>>>> in the next few years exposing other "issues" that those
>>>>>> afflicted will have to deal with going forward.
>>>>>
>>>>> There's a *lot* of research on long covid happening here.
>>>>> I'm one of the 500k people in the BioBank study, but not
>>>>> one of the 40k that had MRI scans.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've just been informed that another longitudinal study
>>>>> I've been in involved in (ALSPAC / Children of the 90s)
>>>>> will be doing some research on it.
>>>>
>>>> It would be interesting to see if any brain functions get *better*
>>>> after covid.
>>>
>>> Unlikely, unless you can hypothesise a cause and effect.
>>
>> I've ordered "Drunk" by Edward Slingerland. One of his ideas is that
>> alcohol preferentially numbs the frontal cortex, and the cortex is the
>> prudent, cautious, people-don't-do-that part. So alcohol (and other
>> things) in mild doses enhance creativity. Artists are notorious
>> drunks.
>>
>> I had Covid in April 2020. I had some long-term effects, mostly gone
>> now, but I think I'm better at inventing electronics now. That's just
>> possible.
>>
>> My athletic abilities are sure improved by one rum and coke. I think
>> less, react better.
>>
>> There are times to think, and times when it's best to not overdo it.
>>
>
>I'm an avid Argentine Tango dancer. I find that as little as a single
>glass of wine thoroughly destroys my ability to dance properly, even
>though it seems to have little or no effect on my performance in
>most other activities, even other dances. Argentine Tango dancing
>is special that way. It requires a clear head, concentration,
>creativity and a lot of other more subtle things. Only a little bit
>of alcohol messes that up, and my partners notice.
>
>Jeroen Belleman

Tango may be too intellectual for alcohol to help.

One of my engineers is a flamenco dancer. When something works, she
taps her feet on the floor. It sounds like a machine gun attack.

I'll ask her about alcohol.

On 7/8/2021 9:41 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 08/07/21 16:43, Don Y wrote:
>> On 7/8/2021 8:03 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>> On 08/07/21 02:18, Don Y wrote:
>>>> On 7/7/2021 4:51 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>> This is an interesting study, since they compared MRI scans of the
>>>>> brain of many people, before and after having covid.
>>>>> Obviously the availability of pre-infection imaging data helps
>>>>> avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical
>>>>> conditions being mis-interpreted as disease effects.
>>>>>
>>>>> "We used structural and functional brain scans from before
>>>>> and after infection, to compare longitudinal brain changes
>>>>> between these 394 COVID-19 patients and 388 controls who
>>>>> were matched for age, sex, ethnicity and interval between
>>>>> scans. We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the
>>>>> brain with a loss of grey matter in the [...several different
>>>>> and widespread areas]."
>>>>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34189535/
>>>>>
>>>>> Death is the least of it, particularly since many of the
>>>>> dead would have been harvested in the near future with or
>>>>> without covid.
>>>>
>>>> Awww, cmon... we all KNOW it's no worse than the *flu*.....
>>>>
>>>> <rolls eyes>
>>>>
>>>> The interesting thing will be the inevitable followup studies
>>>> (when the smoke clears from the battle) that will come along
>>>> in the next few years exposing other "issues" that those
>>>> afflicted will have to deal with going forward.
>>>
>>> There's a *lot* of research on long covid happening here.
>>
>> I suspect there is stuff going on, here, but we don't
>> hear about it. At least, one would HOPE there is!
>>
>>> I'm one of the 500k people in the BioBank study, but not
>>> one of the 40k that had MRI scans.
>>
>> With your NHS, the NHS can decide to fund such a study -- as
>> it is in their best interests to discover the present and
>> future consequences (i.e., COSTS); then it's just a case of
>> signing up "volunteers" (?).
>>
>> Here, some third party would have to propose such a study
>> and get funding to conduct it before even beginning to
>> approach "volunteers".
>
> Neither ALSPAC nor BioBank are NHS; they are academic
> research studies.

Who foots the bill? Someone has to pay for the time
in the scanner (MRI), often subsidize travel expenses
for participants, catalog results and EVENTUALLY
analyze them.

>>> I've just been informed that another longitudinal study
>>> I've been in involved in (ALSPAC / Children of the 90s)
>>> will be doing some research on it.
>>
>> But we'll not know what happens "down the road" until
>> some time DOWN the road! By then, of course, it will
>> be too late to act as an incentivizer to coax people
>> to "avoid at all costs". (instead, they'll piss and moan
>> that "they didn't KNOW" and one should feel sorry for them!)
>>
>> [People being notoriously bad at making long-term decisions]
>
> Yes.
>
> And they are notoriously bad at judging risk. That makes
> our Trump-lite PM's statements that we should make our
> own decisions about masks etc foolish.

DHPink has an interesting discussion as to how folks
"rationalize" their suboptimal decision-making processes.
And, how others can exploit this lack of skill in the
population, as a whole. (or maybe it was Grimes?
Or Lehrer? <frown> Too many texts to keep them all
sorted out in my head :< )

> But then BoJo is no more than a court jester anyway.

The same appears to be true of the republican governors, here.
Don't *dare* mandate anything! (and pray to whatever imaginary being
you wish that the public acts *somewhat* responsibly -- lest YOU
get tagged with a "failed response" to the pandemic!)

On 08/07/21 18:00, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 17:38:25 +0100, Tom Gardner
> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 08/07/21 16:28, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 16:03:33 +0100, Tom Gardner
>>> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08/07/21 02:18, Don Y wrote:
>>>>> On 7/7/2021 4:51 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>>> This is an interesting study, since they compared MRI scans of the
>>>>>> brain of many people, before and after having covid.
>>>>>> Obviously the availability of pre-infection imaging data helps
>>>>>> avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical
>>>>>> conditions being mis-interpreted as disease effects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "We used structural and functional brain scans from before
>>>>>> and after infection, to compare longitudinal brain changes
>>>>>> between these 394 COVID-19 patients and 388 controls who
>>>>>> were matched for age, sex, ethnicity and interval between
>>>>>> scans. We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the
>>>>>> brain with a loss of grey matter in the [...several different
>>>>>> and widespread areas]."
>>>>>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34189535/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Death is the least of it, particularly since many of the
>>>>>> dead would have been harvested in the near future with or
>>>>>> without covid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Awww, cmon... we all KNOW it's no worse than the *flu*.....
>>>>>
>>>>> <rolls eyes>
>>>>>
>>>>> The interesting thing will be the inevitable followup studies
>>>>> (when the smoke clears from the battle) that will come along
>>>>> in the next few years exposing other "issues" that those
>>>>> afflicted will have to deal with going forward.
>>>>
>>>> There's a *lot* of research on long covid happening here.
>>>> I'm one of the 500k people in the BioBank study, but not
>>>> one of the 40k that had MRI scans.
>>>>
>>>> I've just been informed that another longitudinal study
>>>> I've been in involved in (ALSPAC / Children of the 90s)
>>>> will be doing some research on it.
>>>
>>> It would be interesting to see if any brain functions get *better*
>>> after covid.
>>
>> Unlikely, unless you can hypothesise a cause and effect.
>
> I've ordered "Drunk" by Edward Slingerland. One of his ideas is that
> alcohol preferentially numbs the frontal cortex, and the cortex is the
> prudent, cautious, people-don't-do-that part. So alcohol (and other
> things) in mild doses enhance creativity.

Such inhibition is more primitive than the neocortex.
The amygdala (and hippocampus?) are involved.

> Artists are notorious
> drunks.

Rather a cargo-cult association!

> I had Covid in April 2020. I had some long-term effects, mostly gone
> now, but I think I'm better at inventing electronics now. That's just
> possible.

There's an alternative explanation for that observation, one
that I first heard in conjunction with 60s "mind expanding" drugs.

The basic concept is that they don't expand the mind, they
merely inhibit some cognitive functions. Given the mess
monkeys, spiders. etc make when dosed with LSD, that seems
reasonable.

Think of it as an artificially induced Dunning Kruger syndrome :)

On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 1:01:08 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>
> I had Covid in April 2020.

Pure BS. In April your chances of catching COVID was still on the slim side with only a million cases through out the US. Someone in this age group would invariably show significant symptoms. You've had no test to verify the infection. You used to say you "might" have had the disease. Now you say you "had COVID". The story evolves.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On 08/07/21 20:23, Don Y wrote:
> On 7/8/2021 9:41 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>> On 08/07/21 16:43, Don Y wrote:
>>> On 7/8/2021 8:03 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>> On 08/07/21 02:18, Don Y wrote:
>>>>> On 7/7/2021 4:51 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>>> This is an interesting study, since they compared MRI scans of the
>>>>>> brain of many people, before and after having covid.
>>>>>> Obviously the availability of pre-infection imaging data helps
>>>>>> avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical
>>>>>> conditions being mis-interpreted as disease effects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "We used structural and functional brain scans from before
>>>>>> and after infection, to compare longitudinal brain changes
>>>>>> between these 394 COVID-19 patients and 388 controls who
>>>>>> were matched for age, sex, ethnicity and interval between
>>>>>> scans. We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the
>>>>>> brain with a loss of grey matter in the [...several different
>>>>>> and widespread areas]."
>>>>>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34189535/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Death is the least of it, particularly since many of the
>>>>>> dead would have been harvested in the near future with or
>>>>>> without covid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Awww, cmon... we all KNOW it's no worse than the *flu*.....
>>>>>
>>>>> <rolls eyes>
>>>>>
>>>>> The interesting thing will be the inevitable followup studies
>>>>> (when the smoke clears from the battle) that will come along
>>>>> in the next few years exposing other "issues" that those
>>>>> afflicted will have to deal with going forward.
>>>>
>>>> There's a *lot* of research on long covid happening here.
>>>
>>> I suspect there is stuff going on, here, but we don't
>>> hear about it.  At least, one would HOPE there is!
>>>
>>>> I'm one of the 500k people in the BioBank study, but not
>>>> one of the 40k that had MRI scans.
>>>
>>> With your NHS, the NHS can decide to fund such a study -- as
>>> it is in their best interests to discover the present and
>>> future consequences (i.e., COSTS); then it's just a case of
>>> signing up "volunteers" (?).
>>>
>>> Here, some third party would have to propose such a study
>>> and get funding to conduct it before even beginning to
>>> approach "volunteers".
>>
>> Neither ALSPAC nor BioBank are NHS; they are academic
>> research studies.
>
> Who foots the bill?  Someone has to pay for the time
> in the scanner (MRI), often subsidize travel expenses
> for participants, catalog results and EVENTUALLY
> analyze them.

https://www.ukbiobank.ac.uk/learn-more-about-uk-biobank/about-us
UK Biobank has achieved these ambitions through the support
of its visionary funders, the Wellcome Trust, Medical Research
Council, Department of Health, Scottish Government, and the
Northwest Regional Development Agency.

http://www.bristol.ac.uk/alspac/renewal/
Having been through the preliminary stages of our renewal
with the Wellcome Trust and Medical Research Council, we have
now submitted our full application for support over the next
five years. It is our ambition to work with our participants,
funders, the University of Bristol, collaborators and industry
colleagues to maximise the impact of ALSPAC.

On 7/8/2021 12:39 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
> There's an alternative explanation for that observation, one
> that I first heard in conjunction with 60s "mind expanding" drugs.
>
> The basic concept is that they don't expand the mind, they
> merely inhibit some cognitive functions. Given the mess
> monkeys, spiders. etc make when dosed with LSD, that seems
> reasonable.

My housemaster debated Leary in the 60's regarding these things.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome_Lettvin> Jerry was notoriously
"tolerant" of other opinions but pretty convinced that there were no
*real* upsides of acid (and notably frowned at the students in his
care that regularly "tripped")

> Think of it as an artificially induced Dunning Kruger syndrome :)

That's probably a good way of describing it. We all have encountered
drunks who think they are great singers, dancers, etc. -- despite the
evidence before OUR eyes/ears.

I know of a couple dozen of "confirmed COVID cases" (as in, received a
laboratory diagnosis and were tracked by the local health department,
told to contact their previous contacts, etc.).

There are two that I have frequent contact with (several times weekly)
while most of the others I only superficially interact with.

Both of these two "seem dumber" ("slower") after their affliction.
One used to be surprisingly knowledgeable about computer hardware
and software issues. She now says things that I'd expect of a
computer-illiterate -- so much so that I initially thought she was
"setting up a joke" to spring on me...

The other day, she exclaimed, "Oh! You've got something written on
your T-shirt!" My jaw dropped as I have been wearing this EXACT
shirt (I have 7 copies hanging in my closet) for 18+ months, now.
(I will wear it/them for 2 years, then discard them and select
another shirt for the next 24 months of daily use). I.e., she had
seen *it* several times earlier IN THAT WEEK -- let alone each of
the weeks in the months preceding.

Prior to that, she had seen me wearing a *different* (identical) shirt
for 24 months. I.e., she KNOWS that this is a characteristic of my
behavior and has been for MANY years. Yet, she just now "noticed" the
imagery on the front of this one?? (she and her partner have often joked
that they were going to conspire to buy me a RED shirt for XMAS -- just
to force me to wear something ELSE!)

Of course, this could simply be coincidence. Maybe she suddenly has
started "becoming forgetful"? (early onset Altzheimers?) But, I
find the relationship to her covid infection too suspicious. Esp
as the OTHER of these two contacts has developed similar "slowness
of thought".

Despite the millions of documented infections in this country, I hear of
*no* reports of "covid improved my singing, dancing, athletic abilities,
etc." Maybe some grand conspiracy to keep folks from "improving themselves"
through infection?? (ha!)

On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 20:39:23 +0100, Tom Gardner
<spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>On 08/07/21 18:00, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 17:38:25 +0100, Tom Gardner
>> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/07/21 16:28, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 16:03:33 +0100, Tom Gardner
>>>> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 08/07/21 02:18, Don Y wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/7/2021 4:51 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>>>> This is an interesting study, since they compared MRI scans of the
>>>>>>> brain of many people, before and after having covid.
>>>>>>> Obviously the availability of pre-infection imaging data helps
>>>>>>> avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical
>>>>>>> conditions being mis-interpreted as disease effects.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "We used structural and functional brain scans from before
>>>>>>> and after infection, to compare longitudinal brain changes
>>>>>>> between these 394 COVID-19 patients and 388 controls who
>>>>>>> were matched for age, sex, ethnicity and interval between
>>>>>>> scans. We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the
>>>>>>> brain with a loss of grey matter in the [...several different
>>>>>>> and widespread areas]."
>>>>>>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34189535/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Death is the least of it, particularly since many of the
>>>>>>> dead would have been harvested in the near future with or
>>>>>>> without covid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Awww, cmon... we all KNOW it's no worse than the *flu*.....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <rolls eyes>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The interesting thing will be the inevitable followup studies
>>>>>> (when the smoke clears from the battle) that will come along
>>>>>> in the next few years exposing other "issues" that those
>>>>>> afflicted will have to deal with going forward.
>>>>>
>>>>> There's a *lot* of research on long covid happening here.
>>>>> I'm one of the 500k people in the BioBank study, but not
>>>>> one of the 40k that had MRI scans.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've just been informed that another longitudinal study
>>>>> I've been in involved in (ALSPAC / Children of the 90s)
>>>>> will be doing some research on it.
>>>>
>>>> It would be interesting to see if any brain functions get *better*
>>>> after covid.
>>>
>>> Unlikely, unless you can hypothesise a cause and effect.
>>
>> I've ordered "Drunk" by Edward Slingerland. One of his ideas is that
>> alcohol preferentially numbs the frontal cortex, and the cortex is the
>> prudent, cautious, people-don't-do-that part. So alcohol (and other
>> things) in mild doses enhance creativity.
>
>Such inhibition is more primitive than the neocortex.
>The amygdala (and hippocampus?) are involved.
>
>
>> Artists are notorious
>> drunks.
>
>Rather a cargo-cult association!
>
>
>
>> I had Covid in April 2020. I had some long-term effects, mostly gone
>> now, but I think I'm better at inventing electronics now. That's just
>> possible.
>
>There's an alternative explanation for that observation, one
>that I first heard in conjunction with 60s "mind expanding" drugs.
>
>The basic concept is that they don't expand the mind, they
>merely inhibit some cognitive functions. Given the mess
>monkeys, spiders. etc make when dosed with LSD, that seems
>reasonable.
>
>Think of it as an artificially induced Dunning Kruger syndrome :)

Purchase orders are not illusions.

On 08/07/21 21:57, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 20:39:23 +0100, Tom Gardner
> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 08/07/21 18:00, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 17:38:25 +0100, Tom Gardner
>>> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08/07/21 16:28, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 16:03:33 +0100, Tom Gardner
>>>>> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 08/07/21 02:18, Don Y wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/7/2021 4:51 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>>>>> This is an interesting study, since they compared MRI scans of the
>>>>>>>> brain of many people, before and after having covid.
>>>>>>>> Obviously the availability of pre-infection imaging data helps
>>>>>>>> avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical
>>>>>>>> conditions being mis-interpreted as disease effects.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "We used structural and functional brain scans from before
>>>>>>>> and after infection, to compare longitudinal brain changes
>>>>>>>> between these 394 COVID-19 patients and 388 controls who
>>>>>>>> were matched for age, sex, ethnicity and interval between
>>>>>>>> scans. We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the
>>>>>>>> brain with a loss of grey matter in the [...several different
>>>>>>>> and widespread areas]."
>>>>>>>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34189535/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Death is the least of it, particularly since many of the
>>>>>>>> dead would have been harvested in the near future with or
>>>>>>>> without covid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Awww, cmon... we all KNOW it's no worse than the *flu*.....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <rolls eyes>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The interesting thing will be the inevitable followup studies
>>>>>>> (when the smoke clears from the battle) that will come along
>>>>>>> in the next few years exposing other "issues" that those
>>>>>>> afflicted will have to deal with going forward.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's a *lot* of research on long covid happening here.
>>>>>> I'm one of the 500k people in the BioBank study, but not
>>>>>> one of the 40k that had MRI scans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've just been informed that another longitudinal study
>>>>>> I've been in involved in (ALSPAC / Children of the 90s)
>>>>>> will be doing some research on it.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be interesting to see if any brain functions get *better*
>>>>> after covid.
>>>>
>>>> Unlikely, unless you can hypothesise a cause and effect.
>>>
>>> I've ordered "Drunk" by Edward Slingerland. One of his ideas is that
>>> alcohol preferentially numbs the frontal cortex, and the cortex is the
>>> prudent, cautious, people-don't-do-that part. So alcohol (and other
>>> things) in mild doses enhance creativity.
>>
>> Such inhibition is more primitive than the neocortex.
>> The amygdala (and hippocampus?) are involved.
>>
>>
>>> Artists are notorious
>>> drunks.
>>
>> Rather a cargo-cult association!
>>
>>
>>
>>> I had Covid in April 2020. I had some long-term effects, mostly gone
>>> now, but I think I'm better at inventing electronics now. That's just
>>> possible.
>>
>> There's an alternative explanation for that observation, one
>> that I first heard in conjunction with 60s "mind expanding" drugs.
>>
>> The basic concept is that they don't expand the mind, they
>> merely inhibit some cognitive functions. Given the mess
>> monkeys, spiders. etc make when dosed with LSD, that seems
>> reasonable.
>>
>> Think of it as an artificially induced Dunning Kruger syndrome :)
>
> Purchase orders are not illusions.

Agreed.

So what?

I've seen POs placed for remarkably crappy stuff - not
that I'm implying your stuff is crappy, merely that your
argument is crappy!

On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 7:45:04 PM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 08/07/21 21:57, John Larkin wrote:
> > On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 20:39:23 +0100, Tom Gardner
> > <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> On 08/07/21 18:00, John Larkin wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 17:38:25 +0100, Tom Gardner
> >>> <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 08/07/21 16:28, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >>>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 16:03:33 +0100, Tom Gardner
> >>>>> <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 08/07/21 02:18, Don Y wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 7/7/2021 4:51 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
> >>>>>>>> This is an interesting study, since they compared MRI scans of the
> >>>>>>>> brain of many people, before and after having covid.
> >>>>>>>> Obviously the availability of pre-infection imaging data helps
> >>>>>>>> avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical
> >>>>>>>> conditions being mis-interpreted as disease effects.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "We used structural and functional brain scans from before
> >>>>>>>> and after infection, to compare longitudinal brain changes
> >>>>>>>> between these 394 COVID-19 patients and 388 controls who
> >>>>>>>> were matched for age, sex, ethnicity and interval between
> >>>>>>>> scans. We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the
> >>>>>>>> brain with a loss of grey matter in the [...several different
> >>>>>>>> and widespread areas]."
> >>>>>>>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34189535/
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Death is the least of it, particularly since many of the
> >>>>>>>> dead would have been harvested in the near future with or
> >>>>>>>> without covid.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Awww, cmon... we all KNOW it's no worse than the *flu*.....
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> <rolls eyes>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The interesting thing will be the inevitable followup studies
> >>>>>>> (when the smoke clears from the battle) that will come along
> >>>>>>> in the next few years exposing other "issues" that those
> >>>>>>> afflicted will have to deal with going forward.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There's a *lot* of research on long covid happening here.
> >>>>>> I'm one of the 500k people in the BioBank study, but not
> >>>>>> one of the 40k that had MRI scans.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I've just been informed that another longitudinal study
> >>>>>> I've been in involved in (ALSPAC / Children of the 90s)
> >>>>>> will be doing some research on it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It would be interesting to see if any brain functions get *better*
> >>>>> after covid.
> >>>>
> >>>> Unlikely, unless you can hypothesise a cause and effect.
> >>>
> >>> I've ordered "Drunk" by Edward Slingerland. One of his ideas is that
> >>> alcohol preferentially numbs the frontal cortex, and the cortex is the
> >>> prudent, cautious, people-don't-do-that part. So alcohol (and other
> >>> things) in mild doses enhance creativity.
> >>
> >> Such inhibition is more primitive than the neocortex.
> >> The amygdala (and hippocampus?) are involved.
> >>
> >>
> >>> Artists are notorious
> >>> drunks.
> >>
> >> Rather a cargo-cult association!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> I had Covid in April 2020. I had some long-term effects, mostly gone
> >>> now, but I think I'm better at inventing electronics now. That's just
> >>> possible.
> >>
> >> There's an alternative explanation for that observation, one
> >> that I first heard in conjunction with 60s "mind expanding" drugs.
> >>
> >> The basic concept is that they don't expand the mind, they
> >> merely inhibit some cognitive functions. Given the mess
> >> monkeys, spiders. etc make when dosed with LSD, that seems
> >> reasonable.
> >>
> >> Think of it as an artificially induced Dunning Kruger syndrome :)
> >
> > Purchase orders are not illusions.
> Agreed.
>
> So what?
>
> I've seen POs placed for remarkably crappy stuff - not
> that I'm implying your stuff is crappy, merely that your
> argument is crappy!

Forget about it Jake, it's s.e.d.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Thu, 08 Jul 2021 12:06:39 -0700, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 08 Jul 2021 19:20:52 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
><jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>
>>On 2021-07-08 19:00, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 17:38:25 +0100, Tom Gardner
>>> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08/07/21 16:28, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 16:03:33 +0100, Tom Gardner
>>>>> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 08/07/21 02:18, Don Y wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/7/2021 4:51 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>>>>> This is an interesting study, since they compared MRI scans of the
>>>>>>>> brain of many people, before and after having covid.
>>>>>>>> Obviously the availability of pre-infection imaging data helps
>>>>>>>> avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical
>>>>>>>> conditions being mis-interpreted as disease effects.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "We used structural and functional brain scans from before
>>>>>>>> and after infection, to compare longitudinal brain changes
>>>>>>>> between these 394 COVID-19 patients and 388 controls who
>>>>>>>> were matched for age, sex, ethnicity and interval between
>>>>>>>> scans. We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the
>>>>>>>> brain with a loss of grey matter in the [...several different
>>>>>>>> and widespread areas]."
>>>>>>>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34189535/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Death is the least of it, particularly since many of the
>>>>>>>> dead would have been harvested in the near future with or
>>>>>>>> without covid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Awww, cmon... we all KNOW it's no worse than the *flu*.....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <rolls eyes>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The interesting thing will be the inevitable followup studies
>>>>>>> (when the smoke clears from the battle) that will come along
>>>>>>> in the next few years exposing other "issues" that those
>>>>>>> afflicted will have to deal with going forward.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's a *lot* of research on long covid happening here.
>>>>>> I'm one of the 500k people in the BioBank study, but not
>>>>>> one of the 40k that had MRI scans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've just been informed that another longitudinal study
>>>>>> I've been in involved in (ALSPAC / Children of the 90s)
>>>>>> will be doing some research on it.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be interesting to see if any brain functions get *better*
>>>>> after covid.
>>>>
>>>> Unlikely, unless you can hypothesise a cause and effect.
>>>
>>> I've ordered "Drunk" by Edward Slingerland. One of his ideas is that
>>> alcohol preferentially numbs the frontal cortex, and the cortex is the
>>> prudent, cautious, people-don't-do-that part. So alcohol (and other
>>> things) in mild doses enhance creativity. Artists are notorious
>>> drunks.
>>>
>>> I had Covid in April 2020. I had some long-term effects, mostly gone
>>> now, but I think I'm better at inventing electronics now. That's just
>>> possible.
>>>
>>> My athletic abilities are sure improved by one rum and coke. I think
>>> less, react better.
>>>
>>> There are times to think, and times when it's best to not overdo it.
>>>
>>
>>I'm an avid Argentine Tango dancer. I find that as little as a single
>>glass of wine thoroughly destroys my ability to dance properly, even
>>though it seems to have little or no effect on my performance in
>>most other activities, even other dances. Argentine Tango dancing
>>is special that way. It requires a clear head, concentration,
>>creativity and a lot of other more subtle things. Only a little bit
>>of alcohol messes that up, and my partners notice.
>>
>>Jeroen Belleman
>
>Tango may be too intellectual for alcohol to help.
>
>One of my engineers is a flamenco dancer. When something works, she
>taps her feet on the floor. It sounds like a machine gun attack.
>
>I'll ask her about alcohol.

She says she can't drink and dance. The musicians can and do.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The best designs are necessarily accidental.

On Friday, July 9, 2021 at 3:01:08 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 17:38:25 +0100, Tom Gardner
> <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >On 08/07/21 16:28, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 16:03:33 +0100, Tom Gardner
> >> <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 08/07/21 02:18, Don Y wrote:
> >>>> On 7/7/2021 4:51 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
> >>>>> This is an interesting study, since they compared MRI scans of the
> >>>>> brain of many people, before and after having covid.
> >>>>> Obviously the availability of pre-infection imaging data helps
> >>>>> avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical
> >>>>> conditions being mis-interpreted as disease effects.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "We used structural and functional brain scans from before
> >>>>> and after infection, to compare longitudinal brain changes
> >>>>> between these 394 COVID-19 patients and 388 controls who
> >>>>> were matched for age, sex, ethnicity and interval between
> >>>>> scans. We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the
> >>>>> brain with a loss of grey matter in the [...several different
> >>>>> and widespread areas]."
> >>>>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34189535/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Death is the least of it, particularly since many of the
> >>>>> dead would have been harvested in the near future with or
> >>>>> without covid.
> >>>>
> >>>> Awww, cmon... we all KNOW it's no worse than the *flu*.....
> >>>>
> >>>> <rolls eyes>
> >>>>
> >>>> The interesting thing will be the inevitable followup studies
> >>>> (when the smoke clears from the battle) that will come along
> >>>> in the next few years exposing other "issues" that those
> >>>> afflicted will have to deal with going forward.
> >>>
> >>> There's a *lot* of research on long covid happening here.
> >>> I'm one of the 500k people in the BioBank study, but not
> >>> one of the 40k that had MRI scans.
> >>>
> >>> I've just been informed that another longitudinal study
> >>> I've been in involved in (ALSPAC / Children of the 90s)
> >>> will be doing some research on it.
> >>
> >> It would be interesting to see if any brain functions get *better*
> >> after covid.
> >
> >Unlikely, unless you can hypothesise a cause and effect.
> I've ordered "Drunk" by Edward Slingerland. One of his ideas is that
> alcohol preferentially numbs the frontal cortex, and the cortex is the
> prudent, cautious, people-don't-do-that part. So alcohol (and other
> things) in mild doses enhance creativity. Artists are notorious
> drunks.
>
> I had Covid in April 2020.

No test results, but a firm conviction that whatever he had was Covid-19.

> I had some long-term effects, mostly gone now, but I think I'm better at inventing electronics now.

He would think that. He's an egomaniac. He's got his name on a single patent where the other people involved in the project thought that he'd made enough of a contribution to be added the list of names. As an "inventor" of new circuits, he doesn't seem to be in the hunt.

> That's just possible.

Granting John Larkin's uniquely high opinion of his own skill, he's bound to think that he is doing better.
> My athletic abilities are sure improved by one rum and coke. I think less, react better.

A well known effect.

> There are times to think, and times when it's best to not overdo it.

A risk that John Larkin is very careful to avoid.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Friday, July 9, 2021 at 6:57:32 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 20:39:23 +0100, Tom Gardner <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >On 08/07/21 18:00, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 17:38:25 +0100, Tom Gardner <spam...@blueyonder.co..uk> wrote:
> >>> On 08/07/21 16:28, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 16:03:33 +0100, Tom Gardner <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>> On 08/07/21 02:18, Don Y wrote:
> >>>>>> On 7/7/2021 4:51 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:

<snip>

> >> I had Covid in April 2020. I had some long-term effects, mostly gone
> >> now, but I think I'm better at inventing electronics now. That's just
> >> possible.
> >
> >There's an alternative explanation for that observation, one
> >that I first heard in conjunction with 60s "mind expanding" drugs.
> >
> >The basic concept is that they don't expand the mind, they
> >merely inhibit some cognitive functions. Given the mess
> >monkeys, spiders. etc make when dosed with LSD, that seems
> >reasonable.
> >
> >Think of it as an artificially induced Dunning Kruger syndrome :)
>
> Purchase orders are not illusions.

But they do reflect the state of mind of the people making the purchase orders. If John Larkin is now stupider, and even more willing to make exaggerated claims about the quality of his products, his customers may be taking him more seriously than they should.

My electron beam tester project was driven by a guy who always wanted more bell and whistles on the product - to make it easier for him to sell - and resented it when the engineers wanted to spend time on cleaning up the less satisfactory aspects of the product so that it would end up more reliable, and easier to use.

When his lead engineer - Neal Richardson - bailed out and went to work for Fairchild, Schlumberger - who owned Fairchild at the time - eventually exploited this by getting Neal to put together a rival product that was more reliable and easier to use. They ended up with 97% of the market - if Mike Engelhardt (who was working for them at the time) is to be believed.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 00:44:58 +0100, Tom Gardner
<spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>On 08/07/21 21:57, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 20:39:23 +0100, Tom Gardner
>> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/07/21 18:00, John Larkin wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 17:38:25 +0100, Tom Gardner
>>>> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 08/07/21 16:28, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 16:03:33 +0100, Tom Gardner
>>>>>> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 08/07/21 02:18, Don Y wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/7/2021 4:51 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>>>>>> This is an interesting study, since they compared MRI scans of the
>>>>>>>>> brain of many people, before and after having covid.
>>>>>>>>> Obviously the availability of pre-infection imaging data helps
>>>>>>>>> avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical
>>>>>>>>> conditions being mis-interpreted as disease effects.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "We used structural and functional brain scans from before
>>>>>>>>> and after infection, to compare longitudinal brain changes
>>>>>>>>> between these 394 COVID-19 patients and 388 controls who
>>>>>>>>> were matched for age, sex, ethnicity and interval between
>>>>>>>>> scans. We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the
>>>>>>>>> brain with a loss of grey matter in the [...several different
>>>>>>>>> and widespread areas]."
>>>>>>>>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34189535/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Death is the least of it, particularly since many of the
>>>>>>>>> dead would have been harvested in the near future with or
>>>>>>>>> without covid.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Awww, cmon... we all KNOW it's no worse than the *flu*.....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <rolls eyes>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The interesting thing will be the inevitable followup studies
>>>>>>>> (when the smoke clears from the battle) that will come along
>>>>>>>> in the next few years exposing other "issues" that those
>>>>>>>> afflicted will have to deal with going forward.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's a *lot* of research on long covid happening here.
>>>>>>> I'm one of the 500k people in the BioBank study, but not
>>>>>>> one of the 40k that had MRI scans.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've just been informed that another longitudinal study
>>>>>>> I've been in involved in (ALSPAC / Children of the 90s)
>>>>>>> will be doing some research on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would be interesting to see if any brain functions get *better*
>>>>>> after covid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unlikely, unless you can hypothesise a cause and effect.
>>>>
>>>> I've ordered "Drunk" by Edward Slingerland. One of his ideas is that
>>>> alcohol preferentially numbs the frontal cortex, and the cortex is the
>>>> prudent, cautious, people-don't-do-that part. So alcohol (and other
>>>> things) in mild doses enhance creativity.
>>>
>>> Such inhibition is more primitive than the neocortex.
>>> The amygdala (and hippocampus?) are involved.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Artists are notorious
>>>> drunks.
>>>
>>> Rather a cargo-cult association!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I had Covid in April 2020. I had some long-term effects, mostly gone
>>>> now, but I think I'm better at inventing electronics now. That's just
>>>> possible.
>>>
>>> There's an alternative explanation for that observation, one
>>> that I first heard in conjunction with 60s "mind expanding" drugs.
>>>
>>> The basic concept is that they don't expand the mind, they
>>> merely inhibit some cognitive functions. Given the mess
>>> monkeys, spiders. etc make when dosed with LSD, that seems
>>> reasonable.
>>>
>>> Think of it as an artificially induced Dunning Kruger syndrome :)
>>
>> Purchase orders are not illusions.
>
>Agreed.
>
>So what?
>
>I've seen POs placed for remarkably crappy stuff - not
>that I'm implying your stuff is crappy, merely that your
>argument is crappy!

I design electronics and people buy it. I do it in public when I
reasonably can.

Designing electronics is apparently an activity that the geezers and
trolls here do not approve of.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The best designs are necessarily accidental.

On Saturday, July 10, 2021 at 12:00:16 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 00:44:58 +0100, Tom Gardner
> <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >On 08/07/21 21:57, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 20:39:23 +0100, Tom Gardner
> >> <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 08/07/21 18:00, John Larkin wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 17:38:25 +0100, Tom Gardner
> >>>> <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 08/07/21 16:28, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 16:03:33 +0100, Tom Gardner
> >>>>>> <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 08/07/21 02:18, Don Y wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 7/7/2021 4:51 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> This is an interesting study, since they compared MRI scans of the
> >>>>>>>>> brain of many people, before and after having covid.
> >>>>>>>>> Obviously the availability of pre-infection imaging data helps
> >>>>>>>>> avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical
> >>>>>>>>> conditions being mis-interpreted as disease effects.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> "We used structural and functional brain scans from before
> >>>>>>>>> and after infection, to compare longitudinal brain changes
> >>>>>>>>> between these 394 COVID-19 patients and 388 controls who
> >>>>>>>>> were matched for age, sex, ethnicity and interval between
> >>>>>>>>> scans. We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the
> >>>>>>>>> brain with a loss of grey matter in the [...several different
> >>>>>>>>> and widespread areas]."
> >>>>>>>>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34189535/
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Death is the least of it, particularly since many of the
> >>>>>>>>> dead would have been harvested in the near future with or
> >>>>>>>>> without covid.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Awww, cmon... we all KNOW it's no worse than the *flu*.....
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> <rolls eyes>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The interesting thing will be the inevitable followup studies
> >>>>>>>> (when the smoke clears from the battle) that will come along
> >>>>>>>> in the next few years exposing other "issues" that those
> >>>>>>>> afflicted will have to deal with going forward.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> There's a *lot* of research on long covid happening here.
> >>>>>>> I'm one of the 500k people in the BioBank study, but not
> >>>>>>> one of the 40k that had MRI scans.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I've just been informed that another longitudinal study
> >>>>>>> I've been in involved in (ALSPAC / Children of the 90s)
> >>>>>>> will be doing some research on it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It would be interesting to see if any brain functions get *better*
> >>>>>> after covid.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Unlikely, unless you can hypothesise a cause and effect.
> >>>>
> >>>> I've ordered "Drunk" by Edward Slingerland. One of his ideas is that
> >>>> alcohol preferentially numbs the frontal cortex, and the cortex is the
> >>>> prudent, cautious, people-don't-do-that part. So alcohol (and other
> >>>> things) in mild doses enhance creativity.
> >>>
> >>> Such inhibition is more primitive than the neocortex.
> >>> The amygdala (and hippocampus?) are involved.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Artists are notorious
> >>>> drunks.
> >>>
> >>> Rather a cargo-cult association!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> I had Covid in April 2020. I had some long-term effects, mostly gone
> >>>> now, but I think I'm better at inventing electronics now. That's just
> >>>> possible.
> >>>
> >>> There's an alternative explanation for that observation, one
> >>> that I first heard in conjunction with 60s "mind expanding" drugs.
> >>>
> >>> The basic concept is that they don't expand the mind, they
> >>> merely inhibit some cognitive functions. Given the mess
> >>> monkeys, spiders. etc make when dosed with LSD, that seems
> >>> reasonable.
> >>>
> >>> Think of it as an artificially induced Dunning Kruger syndrome :)
> >>
> >> Purchase orders are not illusions.
> >
> >Agreed.
> >
> >So what?
> >
> >I've seen POs placed for remarkably crappy stuff - not
> >that I'm implying your stuff is crappy, merely that your
> >argument is crappy!
>
> I design electronics and people buy it. I do it in public when I reasonably can.

You put together electronics, and people do buy it. You post examples here, but don't discus them, and you don't take part in discussions about designing electronics.
You do seem to want to be praised for what you do come up with, which isn't all that realistic.

I don't think that what you do qualifies as electronic design.
> Designing electronics is apparently an activity that the geezers and trolls here do not approve of.

I don't think you actually understand what "design" entails. Tinkering with an existing circuit until it works isn't design. Working out why it works can qualify, and can be a stepping off point for a proper design.

You don't seem to do that, and don't seem to understand other people when they talk about that kind of stuff. You certainly aren't interested in taking part in the discussion.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney