My neighbor the blacksmith has asked me to help with the hinges for a
Hobbit door ... they're round and very heavy . He's forging the strap
elements , I'll be machining the hinge elements to be welded to his
steel work . My part will consist of machining a pair of stepped pins ,
fat in the middle , and cups for them to pivot in . We're undecided
whether to use a brass thrust washer or a bearing ball in the bottom cup
.. Maybe both ...
--
Snag
“Free speech is my right to say what you don’t
want to hear.” -George Orwell

On 1/15/2023 3:50 PM, Snag wrote:
>   My neighbor the blacksmith has asked me to help with the hinges for a
> Hobbit door ... they're round and very heavy . He's forging the strap
> elements , I'll be machining the hinge elements to be welded to his
> steel work . My part will consist of machining a pair of stepped pins ,
> fat in the middle , and cups for them to pivot in . We're undecided
> whether to use a brass thrust washer or a bearing ball in the bottom cup
> . Maybe both ...

See if you can find a place to hide a grease zerk on it. A shot of
waterproof wheel bearing grease lasts a long time.

--
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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:tq4gh6$8v3$1@gioia.aioe.org...

On 1/15/2023 3:50 PM, Snag wrote:
> My neighbor the blacksmith has asked me to help with the hinges for a
> Hobbit door ... they're round and very heavy . He's forging the strap
> elements , I'll be machining the hinge elements to be welded to his steel
> work . My part will consist of machining a pair of stepped pins , fat in
> the middle , and cups for them to pivot in . We're undecided whether to
> use a brass thrust washer or a bearing ball in the bottom cup . Maybe both
> ...

See if you can find a place to hide a grease zerk on it. A shot of
waterproof wheel bearing grease lasts a long time.

-----------------------

GM uses pressed-in door hinge pins with knurling or an oversized retaining
section under the head and flanged bronze bushings in the center barrel. The
flange takes vertical thrust. They do wear out but are easily replaced. My
Honda has an inconspicuous oil hole in the center barrel that's accessible
with the door open.

On 1/16/2023 3:52 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
>
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:tq4gh6$8v3$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>
> On 1/15/2023 3:50 PM, Snag wrote:
>>    My neighbor the blacksmith has asked me to help with the hinges for
>> a Hobbit door ... they're round and very heavy . He's forging the
>> strap elements , I'll be machining the hinge elements to be welded to
>> his steel work . My part will consist of machining a pair of stepped
>> pins , fat in the middle , and cups for them to pivot in . We're
>> undecided whether to use a brass thrust washer or a bearing ball in
>> the bottom cup . Maybe both ...
>
> See if you can find a place to hide a grease zerk on it.  A shot of
> waterproof wheel bearing grease lasts a long time.
>
> -----------------------
>
> GM uses pressed-in door hinge pins with knurling or an oversized
> retaining section under the head and flanged bronze bushings in the
> center barrel. The flange takes vertical thrust. They do wear out but
> are easily replaced. My Honda has an inconspicuous oil hole in the
> center barrel that's accessible with the door open.
>

Many an old barn hinge was steel on steel with whatever lube they could
find and sometimes not.

I do like the weld on hinges with bushing and grease zerks though.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:tq4gh6$8v3$1@gioia.aioe.org...

On 1/15/2023 3:50 PM, Snag wrote:
> My neighbor the blacksmith has asked me to help with the hinges for a
> Hobbit door ... they're round and very heavy . He's forging the strap
> elements , I'll be machining the hinge elements to be welded to his steel
> work . My part will consist of machining a pair of stepped pins , fat in
> the middle , and cups for them to pivot in . We're undecided whether to
> use a brass thrust washer or a bearing ball in the bottom cup . Maybe both
> ...

-------------------
I see, a Hobbit door is a Chinese Moon Door. I'd make the hinge pins a size
that matches threaded rod so the hinge barrels could be held in axial
alignment for mounting with nuts on sections of threaded rod joined with
couplers, which allow them to be removed from the middle. If the threaded
rod isn't a close fit the nuts could be coned to center in the barrel holes.
The big box hardware stores sell thin plastic wedges for centering a door in
its opening.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:tq4m7k$2tu6r$1@dont-email.me...

Many an old barn hinge was steel on steel with whatever lube they could
find and sometimes not.

I do like the weld on hinges with bushing and grease zerks though.

Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
-----------------------------
I put zerks on all my shop made pivot pins and made sure replacement vehicle
ball and U joints had them, but they distract from the hand forged aesthetic
of blacksmithing. Small holes for these are easier to hide and good enough
for my car doors.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milton-Narrow-Needle-Nose-Grease-Dispenser-S-3208/314090463?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US

Or you can buy small hex head plugs or setscrews to replace zerk fittings
after greasing them. Bring rags, it's messy.

The OEM ball and U joints on my truck were "lubed for life". They died when
the lube dried out, so the statement was literally correct.

On 1/16/2023 3:45 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 1/15/2023 3:50 PM, Snag wrote:
>>    My neighbor the blacksmith has asked me to help with the hinges for
>> a Hobbit door ... they're round and very heavy . He's forging the
>> strap elements , I'll be machining the hinge elements to be welded to
>> his steel work . My part will consist of machining a pair of stepped
>> pins , fat in the middle , and cups for them to pivot in . We're
>> undecided whether to use a brass thrust washer or a bearing ball in
>> the bottom cup . Maybe both ...
>
> See if you can find a place to hide a grease zerk on it.  A shot of
> waterproof wheel bearing grease lasts a long time.
>

He already thought of that ... not sure where he wants the zerks ,
probably in the side of the cups near the closed end . I'm going to put
bearing balls in the ends of the cups , reduce friction since this door
is supposed to be quite heavy . A little taper on the ends of the pins
will keep the balls at the perimeter of the hole .
--
Snag
"You can lead a dummy to facts
but you can't make him think."

On 1/16/2023 5:41 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:tq4m7k$2tu6r$1@dont-email.me...
>
> Many an old barn hinge was steel on steel with whatever lube they could
> find and sometimes not.
>
> I do like the weld on hinges with bushing and grease zerks though.
>
> Bob La Londe
> CNC Molds N Stuff
> -----------------------------
> I put zerks on all my shop made pivot pins and made sure replacement
> vehicle ball and U joints had them, but they distract from the hand
> forged aesthetic of blacksmithing. Small holes for these are easier to
> hide and good enough for my car doors.
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milton-Narrow-Needle-Nose-Grease-Dispenser-S-3208/314090463?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US
>
> Or you can buy small hex head plugs or setscrews to replace zerk
> fittings after greasing them. Bring rags, it's messy.
>
> The OEM ball and U joints on my truck were "lubed for life". They died
> when the lube dried out, so the statement was literally correct.
>
The small ball oil ports found on machine tools are a nice alternative,
and they can be had pretty cheap. When I had one get messed up on my
lathe Precision Mathews sent me a bag of them no charge. I live in the
desert so I hope you can see my obsessions with minimizing dust
intrusion. I prefer grease with a zirc, because you can regrease and
force most gritty grease out. This is used as a sort of cleaning
operation on some CNC router way bearing as well.

--
Bob La Londe
Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
real machinist

--
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On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 2:50:56 PM UTC-8, Snag wrote:
> My neighbor the blacksmith has asked me to help with the hinges for a
> Hobbit door ... they're round and very heavy .

Sounds like the steel will be OK; as for the heavy door, though, you can't
fit strap hinges as easily as mortised ones; they're gonna attach
with through-the-face screws to the door and a heavy timber post?

That heavy door will shift unless the strap hinges are secured by something more than friction;
one solution is to heat 'em cherry red and press into the wood, to make a socket that
won't allow the strap to twist. The entire periphery of the strap has a wood socket that way.
Otherwise, the few-screws wood/metal contact will just crush the wood fiber and things will move.
Getting the hinges correctly in-line will be important, of course, and I'd want to have
a bore-indicating laser pointer to guide the hinge placement.

On 1/23/2023 9:47 PM, whit3rd wrote:
> On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 2:50:56 PM UTC-8, Snag wrote:
>> My neighbor the blacksmith has asked me to help with the hinges for a
>> Hobbit door ... they're round and very heavy .
>
> Sounds like the steel will be OK; as for the heavy door, though, you can't
> fit strap hinges as easily as mortised ones; they're gonna attach
> with through-the-face screws to the door and a heavy timber post?
>
> That heavy door will shift unless the strap hinges are secured by something more than friction;
> one solution is to heat 'em cherry red and press into the wood, to make a socket that
> won't allow the strap to twist. The entire periphery of the strap has a wood socket that way.
> Otherwise, the few-screws wood/metal contact will just crush the wood fiber and things will move.
> Getting the hinges correctly in-line will be important, of course, and I'd want to have
> a bore-indicating laser pointer to guide the hinge placement.
>

I'm not hanging it , just making the pivot parts . I'll suggest he uses
some kind of sleeve thru the door and hinge in at least 2 locations per
hinge strap ... alignment isn't a big problem if ya got a straight piece
of angle iron and a few clamps .
--
Snag
"You can lead a dummy to facts
but you can't make him think."