Preliminarily... that is. It's very infectious and fast spreading.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/567771-study-says-new-lambda-variant-could-be-vaccine

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.454085v1.full

On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 4:02:16 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> Preliminarily... that is. It's very infectious and fast spreading.
>
> https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/567771-study-says-new-lambda-variant-could-be-vaccine
>
> https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.454085v1.full

This part "Lambda S is more susceptible to an infection-enhancing antibody" is really BAD news. Infection-enhancing antibodies actually facilitate the virus binding with target cells, ACE2 mostly. IOW it's turning part of your immune response against you in a very lethal way.

"Here we reveal that the spike protein of the Lambda variant is more infectious and it is attributed to the T76I and L452Q mutations. The RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation, a unique 7-amino-acid deletion mutation in the N-terminal domain of the Lambda spike protein, is responsible for evasion from neutralizing antibodies. Since the Lambda variant has dominantly spread according to the increasing frequency of the isolates harboring the RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation, our data suggest that the insertion of the RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation is closely associated with the massive infection spread of the Lambda variant in South America."

N-terminal is not actually part of the spike and is omitted from the vaccines as they already knew about this risk.

On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 1:25:54 PM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 4:02:16 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > Preliminarily... that is. It's very infectious and fast spreading.
> >
> > https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/567771-study-says-new-lambda-variant-could-be-vaccine
> >
> > https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.454085v1.full
> This part "Lambda S is more susceptible to an infection-enhancing antibody" is really BAD news. Infection-enhancing antibodies actually facilitate the virus binding with target cells, ACE2 mostly. IOW it's turning part of your immune response against you in a very lethal way.
>
> "Here we reveal that the spike protein of the Lambda variant is more infectious and it is attributed to the T76I and L452Q mutations. The RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation, a unique 7-amino-acid deletion mutation in the N-terminal domain of the Lambda spike protein, is responsible for evasion from neutralizing antibodies. Since the Lambda variant has dominantly spread according to the increasing frequency of the isolates harboring the RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation, our data suggest that the insertion of the RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation is closely associated with the massive infection spread of the Lambda variant in South America."
>
> N-terminal is not actually part of the spike and is omitted from the vaccines as they already knew about this risk.

We had around 10% L452Q in FL & CA earlier in the year, but it's now less than 1%. So, it's not a major concern here yet.

On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:02:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>Preliminarily... that is. It's very infectious and fast spreading.
>
>https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/567771-study-says-new-lambda-variant-could-be-vaccine
>
>https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.454085v1.full

Daily deaths in Peru are down about 15:1 from their peak in May. It's
going away, vaccine or not.

Un bel giorno Fred Bloggs digitò:

> Preliminarily... that is. It's very infectious and fast spreading.
^^^^ ^^^^

All variants are vaccine resistant to some degree. From the comments on the
article itself:

<< If you put "higher infectivity" in the title, it requires a comparison.
But there's none. Not even in the abstract is the question "what is it more
infectious than" answered. Only in the discussion does it become clear that
the infectivity is higher than D614G, Gamma and others, BUT NOT Delta.
A better title would be: "SARS-CoV-2 Lambda variant exhibits similar
in-vitro infectivity and immune resistance to Delta" >>

--
Fletto i muscoli e sono nel vuoto.

On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 4:37:24 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:02:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Preliminarily... that is. It's very infectious and fast spreading.
> >
> >https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/567771-study-says-new-lambda-variant-could-be-vaccine
> >
> >https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.454085v1.full
> Daily deaths in Peru are down about 15:1 from their peak in May. It's
> going away, vaccine or not.

Peru has highest COVID death rate in the world.

On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 4:31:37 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 1:25:54 PM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 4:02:16 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > Preliminarily... that is. It's very infectious and fast spreading.
> > >
> > > https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/567771-study-says-new-lambda-variant-could-be-vaccine
> > >
> > > https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.454085v1.full
> > This part "Lambda S is more susceptible to an infection-enhancing antibody" is really BAD news. Infection-enhancing antibodies actually facilitate the virus binding with target cells, ACE2 mostly. IOW it's turning part of your immune response against you in a very lethal way.
> >
> > "Here we reveal that the spike protein of the Lambda variant is more infectious and it is attributed to the T76I and L452Q mutations. The RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation, a unique 7-amino-acid deletion mutation in the N-terminal domain of the Lambda spike protein, is responsible for evasion from neutralizing antibodies. Since the Lambda variant has dominantly spread according to the increasing frequency of the isolates harboring the RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation, our data suggest that the insertion of the RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation is closely associated with the massive infection spread of the Lambda variant in South America."
> >
> > N-terminal is not actually part of the spike and is omitted from the vaccines as they already knew about this risk.
> We had around 10% L452Q in FL & CA earlier in the year, but it's now less than 1%. So, it's not a major concern here yet.

It will be.
https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-lambda-variant-spreads-across-latin-america/a-58035249

On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 4:40:39 PM UTC-4, dalai lamah wrote:
> Un bel giorno Fred Bloggs digitò:
> > Preliminarily... that is. It's very infectious and fast spreading.
> ^^^^ ^^^^
>
> All variants are vaccine resistant to some degree. From the comments on the
> article itself:
>
> << If you put "higher infectivity" in the title, it requires a comparison..
> But there's none. Not even in the abstract is the question "what is it more
> infectious than" answered. Only in the discussion does it become clear that
> the infectivity is higher than D614G, Gamma and others, BUT NOT Delta.
> A better title would be: "SARS-CoV-2 Lambda variant exhibits similar
> in-vitro infectivity and immune resistance to Delta" >>

The disease enhancing antibodies are a game changer. These antibodies block access to the RBD by the neutralizing antibodies. Whenever disease enhancing antibodies show up you have a disaster.

>
> --
> Fletto i muscoli e sono nel vuoto.

On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 14:53:25 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 4:37:24 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:02:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Preliminarily... that is. It's very infectious and fast spreading.
>> >
>> >https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/567771-study-says-new-lambda-variant-could-be-vaccine
>> >
>> >https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.454085v1.full
>> Daily deaths in Peru are down about 15:1 from their peak in May. It's
>> going away, vaccine or not.
>
>Peru has highest COVID death rate in the world.

Maybe had. Not now.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/peru/

Way past peak.

Mexico is approaching an all-time peak. A few others are close to new
peaks.

On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 6:55:45 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 14:53:25 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 4:37:24 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:02:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Preliminarily... that is. It's very infectious and fast spreading.
> >> >
> >> >https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/567771-study-says-new-lambda-variant-could-be-vaccine
> >> >
> >> >https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.454085v1.full
> >> Daily deaths in Peru are down about 15:1 from their peak in May. It's
> >> going away, vaccine or not.
> >
> >Peru has highest COVID death rate in the world.
> Maybe had. Not now.
>
> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/peru/
>
> Way past peak.
>
> Mexico is approaching an all-time peak. A few others are close to new
> peaks.

Larkin is such a trip. He talks about all manner of offbeat stuff regarding the disease, all the while referring to a few isolated facts. Nothing he talks about ever ends up being related to reality. Nothing he contributes ends up being at all useful or educational. His contributions to the discussions of this disease are literally nil.

Other than electronics, the guy is a complete loser. Has he ever said anything about COVID that was meaningful?

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

As ironically stated by the John Doe <always.look@message.header> troll
in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me> who has posted yet another
incorectly formatted USENET posting on Sat, 14 Aug 2021 02:25:33 -0000
(UTC) in message-id <sf79is$41i$3@dont-email.me>.

On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 6:55:45 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 14:53:25 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 4:37:24 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:02:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Preliminarily... that is. It's very infectious and fast spreading.
> >> >
> >> >https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/567771-study-says-new-lambda-variant-could-be-vaccine
> >> >
> >> >https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.454085v1.full
> >> Daily deaths in Peru are down about 15:1 from their peak in May. It's
> >> going away, vaccine or not.
> >
> >Peru has highest COVID death rate in the world.
> Maybe had. Not now.
>
> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/peru/
>
> Way past peak.
>
> Mexico is approaching an all-time peak. A few others are close to new
> peaks.

Lambda is the one they've been waiting for to mutate into full vaccine resistance. The virologists are saying it won't be a problem in US because it can't compete with Delta. That is true but only for the unvaccinated population. The vaccine eliminates the Delta competition in the vaccinated population, so the lambda can circulate there with its resistance and experiment with mutations that optimize its infectiousness in that population..

On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 07:08:44 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 6:55:45 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 14:53:25 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 4:37:24 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:02:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Preliminarily... that is. It's very infectious and fast spreading.
>> >> >
>> >> >https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/567771-study-says-new-lambda-variant-could-be-vaccine
>> >> >
>> >> >https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.454085v1.full
>> >> Daily deaths in Peru are down about 15:1 from their peak in May. It's
>> >> going away, vaccine or not.
>> >
>> >Peru has highest COVID death rate in the world.
>> Maybe had. Not now.
>>
>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/peru/
>>
>> Way past peak.
>>
>> Mexico is approaching an all-time peak. A few others are close to new
>> peaks.
>
>Lambda is the one they've been waiting for to mutate into full vaccine resistance. The virologists are saying it won't be a problem in US because it can't compete with Delta. That is true but only for the unvaccinated population. The vaccine eliminates the Delta competition in the vaccinated population, so the lambda can circulate there with its resistance and experiment with mutations that optimize its infectiousness in that population..

Delta is like a free vaccine.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/

--

Father Brown's figure remained quite dark and still;
but in that instant he had lost his head. His head was
always most valuable when he had lost it.

On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 12:52:50 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 07:08:44 -0700 (PDT), Fred Blogg <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 6:55:45 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 14:53:25 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 4:37:24 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> >> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:02:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Preliminarily... that is. It's very infectious and fast spreading.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/567771-study-says-new-lambda-variant-could-be-vaccine
> >> >> >
> >> >> >https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.454085v1.full
> >> >> >
> >> >> Daily deaths in Peru are down about 15:1 from their peak in May. It's going away, vaccine or not.
> >> >
> >> >Peru has highest COVID death rate in the world.
>
> >> Maybe had. Not now.

It certainly has had the most Covid19 deaths per million of any country - 5,892 - Hungary is next at 3,118. The UK at 1,916, and the US at 1,912 are well behind.

> >> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/peru/
> >>
> >> Way past peak.
> >>
> >> Mexico is approaching an all-time peak. A few others are close to new peaks.
> >
> >Lambda is the one they've been waiting for to mutate into full vaccine resistance.

Nonsense. As new strains appear, some going more vaccine resistant than their predecessors.

At the moment the main vaccines in use in the west all use the same version of the Covid-19 spike protein as their antigen. The antibody your immune system selects to mass produce in reaction to this provocation depends as much on you as the antigen used to provoke it.

Small changes in the Covid-19 spike protein - from one strain to the next - will mean that some people's antibodies won't recognise it. Enough of them might eventually change enough that hardly anybodies will work, but we aren't suddenly going to see a new strain whose spike protein evades everybody's antibodies.

Claiming that the lambda strain is evading everybody's antibodies is pure alarmism.

> The virologists are saying it won't be a problem in US because it can't compete with Delta. That is true but only for the unvaccinated population. The vaccine eliminates the Delta competition in the vaccinated population, so the lambda can circulate there with its resistance and experiment with mutations that optimize its infectiousness in that population.

If it can circulate at all. It's got to infect people and reproduce before it can mutate into something more infectious, and at the moment vaccinated people are hard to infect, and don't stay infectious for long. The volume of new viral particles the produce is relatively low, so the the chance that one of them is any kind of mutant, let alone a more infectious strain, is correspondingly low.

> Delta is like a free vaccine.
>
> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/

This is one of John Larkin's persistent stupidiities. He sees infection rates peak and then decline, and thinks that this is because the virus is changing. It isn't.
What happens is that when enough people get sick and start dying in attention-getting numbers, everybody gets a lot more cautious and infection rates plummet.

It's people's behaviour that changes, not the virus. Not that the virus doesn't change a bit as new strains come up, but it doesn't stop infecting people.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 11:36:43 AM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

> > The virologists are saying it won't be a problem in US because it can't compete with Delta. That is true but only for the unvaccinated population. The vaccine eliminates the Delta competition in the vaccinated population, so the lambda can circulate there with its resistance and experiment with mutations that optimize its infectiousness in that population.
> If it can circulate at all. It's got to infect people and reproduce before it can mutate into something more infectious, and at the moment vaccinated people are hard to infect, and don't stay infectious for long. The volume of new viral particles the produce is relatively low, so the the chance that one of them is any kind of mutant, let alone a more infectious strain, is correspondingly low.

There's no scientific data to support your ridiculous statement.

Peru is being vaccinated with Chinese whole virus vaccines.

>
> --
> Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 1:56:36 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 11:36:43 AM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
>
> > > The virologists are saying it won't be a problem in US because it can't compete with Delta. That is true but only for the unvaccinated population. The vaccine eliminates the Delta competition in the vaccinated population, so the lambda can circulate there with its resistance and experiment with mutations that optimize its infectiousness in that population.
>
> > If it can circulate at all. It's got to infect people and reproduce before it can mutate into something more infectious, and at the moment vaccinated people are hard to infect, and don't stay infectious for long. The volume of new viral particles the produce is relatively low, so the the chance that one of them is any kind of mutant, let alone a more infectious strain, is correspondingly low.
>
> There's no scientific data to support your ridiculous statement.

None that you can understand.
> Peru is being vaccinated with Chinese whole virus vaccines.

So is Indonesia. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence about fully vaccinated Indonesian medical staff getting sick with Covid-19, and quite a few of them dying.

You'd expect the Chinese vaccine to create antibodies that wouldn't work well against new strains. You were making a claim about the US where pretty much all the vaccines use a version of the highly conserved Covid-19 spike protein as their antigen.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 7:52:50 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

> Delta is like a free vaccine.

Not so. Vaccine is valuable medical aid, Delta is a life-threatening disease.

Inability to discern the difference, is... ludicrous.

If your pet theory needs the protection of repeated falsehoods,
science offers a solution: euthanize that pet.

On 8/14/2021 10:07 PM, whit3rd wrote:
> On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 7:52:50 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>
>> Delta is like a free vaccine.
>
> Not so. Vaccine is valuable medical aid, Delta is a life-threatening disease.

Exactly. It would be like claiming that getting your hand caught in
a piece of farm equipment AND LOSING IT is a valuable learning aid!
("Gee, I sure won't do THAT again -- well, at least not more than
ONCE more!!")

Or, getting caught while robbing a bank...

> Inability to discern the difference, is... ludicrous.
>
> If your pet theory needs the protection of repeated falsehoods,
> science offers a solution: euthanize that pet.
>

On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 08:36:39 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
<bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

>On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 12:52:50 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 07:08:44 -0700 (PDT), Fred Blogg <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 6:55:45 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 14:53:25 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 4:37:24 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> >> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:02:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Preliminarily... that is. It's very infectious and fast spreading.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/567771-study-says-new-lambda-variant-could-be-vaccine
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.454085v1.full
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> Daily deaths in Peru are down about 15:1 from their peak in May. It's going away, vaccine or not.
>> >> >
>> >> >Peru has highest COVID death rate in the world.
>>
>> >> Maybe had. Not now.
>
>It certainly has had the most Covid19 deaths per million of any country - 5,892 - Hungary is next at 3,118. The UK at 1,916, and the US at 1,912 are well behind.
>
>> >> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/peru/
>> >>
>> >> Way past peak.
>> >>
>> >> Mexico is approaching an all-time peak. A few others are close to new peaks.
>> >
>> >Lambda is the one they've been waiting for to mutate into full vaccine resistance.
>
>Nonsense. As new strains appear, some going more vaccine resistant than their predecessors.
>
>At the moment the main vaccines in use in the west all use the same version of the Covid-19 spike protein as their antigen. The antibody your immune system selects to mass produce in reaction to this provocation depends as much on you as the antigen used to provoke it.
>
>Small changes in the Covid-19 spike protein - from one strain to the next - will mean that some people's antibodies won't recognise it. Enough of them might eventually change enough that hardly anybodies will work, but we aren't suddenly going to see a new strain whose spike protein evades everybody's antibodies.
>
>Claiming that the lambda strain is evading everybody's antibodies is pure alarmism.
>
>> The virologists are saying it won't be a problem in US because it can't compete with Delta. That is true but only for the unvaccinated population. The vaccine eliminates the Delta competition in the vaccinated population, so the lambda can circulate there with its resistance and experiment with mutations that optimize its infectiousness in that population.
>
>If it can circulate at all. It's got to infect people and reproduce before it can mutate into something more infectious, and at the moment vaccinated people are hard to infect, and don't stay infectious for long. The volume of new viral particles the produce is relatively low, so the the chance that one of them is any kind of mutant, let alone a more infectious strain, is correspondingly low.
>
>> Delta is like a free vaccine.
>>
>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/
>
>This is one of John Larkin's persistent stupidiities. He sees infection rates peak and then decline, and thinks that this is because the virus is changing. It isn't.
>What happens is that when enough people get sick and start dying in attention-getting numbers, everybody gets a lot more cautious and infection rates plummet.

>
>It's people's behaviour that changes, not the virus. Not that the virus doesn't change a bit as new strains come up, but it doesn't stop infecting people.

Absolutely agree about the behaviour aspect and most of the previous,
I think.

boB

On 15/08/2021 06:25, Don Y wrote:
> On 8/14/2021 10:07 PM, whit3rd wrote:
>> On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 7:52:50 AM UTC-7,
>> jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>
>>> Delta is like a free vaccine.
>>
>> Not so.   Vaccine is valuable medical aid, Delta is a life-threatening
>> disease.

One of the other more benign common cold human coronaviruses might be.
That would fit with an 80:20 split for typical infectivity and long term
here immunity levels. Although it is a double edged sword - some people
with cross reactive antibodies seem to have a worse outcome. eg.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2020.567710/full

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33734013/

> Exactly.  It would be like claiming that getting your hand caught in
> a piece of farm equipment AND LOSING IT is a valuable learning aid!
> ("Gee, I sure won't do THAT again -- well, at least not more than
> ONCE more!!")

I recall the advice of a well known pyrotechnician on the chemistry
lecture circuit who had a story very much of that ilk.

The world's best fireworks designers are missing precisely one finger!

i.e. smart enough not to get killed but made a careless error working
with explosive compositions just once whilst they were learning.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 8/15/2021 2:28 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
>> Exactly. It would be like claiming that getting your hand caught in
>> a piece of farm equipment AND LOSING IT is a valuable learning aid!
>> ("Gee, I sure won't do THAT again -- well, at least not more than
>> ONCE more!!")
>
> I recall the advice of a well known pyrotechnician on the chemistry lecture
> circuit who had a story very much of that ilk.
>
> The world's best fireworks designers are missing precisely one finger!
>
> i.e. smart enough not to get killed but made a careless error working with
> explosive compositions just once whilst they were learning.

*Smarter* would have looked around at the others in his profession and made
that observation, on his own!

On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 10:39:28 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 1:56:36 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 11:36:43 AM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> >
> > > > The virologists are saying it won't be a problem in US because it can't compete with Delta. That is true but only for the unvaccinated population. The vaccine eliminates the Delta competition in the vaccinated population, so the lambda can circulate there with its resistance and experiment with mutations that optimize its infectiousness in that population.
> >
> > > If it can circulate at all. It's got to infect people and reproduce before it can mutate into something more infectious, and at the moment vaccinated people are hard to infect, and don't stay infectious for long. The volume of new viral particles the produce is relatively low, so the the chance that one of them is any kind of mutant, let alone a more infectious strain, is correspondingly low.
> >
> > There's no scientific data to support your ridiculous statement.
> None that you can understand.

You're the one with major cognition issues as I point out below.

> > Peru is being vaccinated with Chinese whole virus vaccines.
> So is Indonesia. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence about fully vaccinated Indonesian medical staff getting sick with Covid-19, and quite a few of them dying.

If it's a proper whole virus vaccine then they will have antibodies for the RBD region of the spike. The difference is it will just be a small subset of their antibody response when their immunity gets activated by a live virus, which means their response will be slower, and that makes all the difference.

>
> You'd expect the Chinese vaccine to create antibodies that wouldn't work well against new strains. You were making a claim about the US where pretty much all the vaccines use a version of the highly conserved Covid-19 spike protein as their antigen.

The people who experienced breakthrough infections will have in effect been vaccinated by a whole virus, which means they will now have a less efficient antibody response to future challenges. Next time they might not do so well.

>
> --
> Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Monday, August 16, 2021 at 1:05:19 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 10:39:28 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 1:56:36 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 11:36:43 AM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > >
> > > > > The virologists are saying it won't be a problem in US because it can't compete with Delta. That is true but only for the unvaccinated population. The vaccine eliminates the Delta competition in the vaccinated population, so the lambda can circulate there with its resistance and experiment with mutations that optimize its infectiousness in that population.
> > >
> > > > If it can circulate at all. It's got to infect people and reproduce before it can mutate into something more infectious, and at the moment vaccinated people are hard to infect, and don't stay infectious for long. The volume of new viral particles the produce is relatively low, so the the chance that one of them is any kind of mutant, let alone a more infectious strain, is correspondingly low.
> > >
> > > There's no scientific data to support your ridiculous statement.
>
> > None that you can understand.
>
> You're the one with major cognition issues as I point out below.

You do make that claim from time to time. You seem incapable of backing it up.

> > > Peru is being vaccinated with Chinese whole virus vaccines.
> >
> > So is Indonesia. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence about fully vaccinated Indonesian medical staff getting sick with Covid-19, and quite a few of them dying.
>
> If it's a proper whole virus vaccine then they will have antibodies for the RBD region of the spike.

The antibodies for a whole virus vaccine recognise a substantial chunk of the virus envelope, including several spike proteins and their receptor bonding domains. The spacing of the spike proteins matters, so it is relatively easy for a new strain to move them around enough to wreck the match.

>The difference is it will just be a small subset of their antibody response when their immunity gets activated by a live virus, which means their response will be slower, and that makes all the difference.

What a load of cobblers. The antibody won't detect one or more receptor bonding domains as anything more than another segment of the area of virus envelope surface. It reacts to the whole surface.

I don't know what you thought you were pointing out - but what you have pointed out is that you've got some potty misconception about what the receptor bonding domain bonds to - it's just the human ACE-2 receptor site, and nothing else. Antibodies don't bother decorating their surface with copies of the ACE-2 receptor site.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 7:36:32 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Monday, August 16, 2021 at 1:05:19 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 10:39:28 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 1:56:36 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 11:36:43 AM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > The virologists are saying it won't be a problem in US because it can't compete with Delta. That is true but only for the unvaccinated population. The vaccine eliminates the Delta competition in the vaccinated population, so the lambda can circulate there with its resistance and experiment with mutations that optimize its infectiousness in that population.
> > > >
> > > > > If it can circulate at all. It's got to infect people and reproduce before it can mutate into something more infectious, and at the moment vaccinated people are hard to infect, and don't stay infectious for long. The volume of new viral particles the produce is relatively low, so the the chance that one of them is any kind of mutant, let alone a more infectious strain, is correspondingly low.
> > > >
> > > > There's no scientific data to support your ridiculous statement.
> >
> > > None that you can understand.
> >
> > You're the one with major cognition issues as I point out below.
> You do make that claim from time to time. You seem incapable of backing it up.
> > > > Peru is being vaccinated with Chinese whole virus vaccines.
> > >
> > > So is Indonesia. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence about fully vaccinated Indonesian medical staff getting sick with Covid-19, and quite a few of them dying.
> >
> > If it's a proper whole virus vaccine then they will have antibodies for the RBD region of the spike.
> The antibodies for a whole virus vaccine recognise a substantial chunk of the virus envelope, including several spike proteins and their receptor bonding domains. The spacing of the spike proteins matters, so it is relatively easy for a new strain to move them around enough to wreck the match.
> >The difference is it will just be a small subset of their antibody response when their immunity gets activated by a live virus, which means their response will be slower, and that makes all the difference.
> What a load of cobblers. The antibody won't detect one or more receptor bonding domains as anything more than another segment of the area of virus envelope surface. It reacts to the whole surface.
>
> I don't know what you thought you were pointing out - but what you have pointed out is that you've got some potty misconception about what the receptor bonding domain bonds to - it's just the human ACE-2 receptor site, and nothing else. Antibodies don't bother decorating their surface with copies of the ACE-2 receptor site.

You're even dumber and more ignorant than I imagined if you think the immunity develops some kind of whole virus antibody in response to a whole virus vaccine.

Time for you to just hang it up.

>
> --
> Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Monday, August 16, 2021 at 7:56:38 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 7:36:32 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > On Monday, August 16, 2021 at 1:05:19 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 10:39:28 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 1:56:36 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 11:36:43 AM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > The virologists are saying it won't be a problem in US because it can't compete with Delta. That is true but only for the unvaccinated population. The vaccine eliminates the Delta competition in the vaccinated population, so the lambda can circulate there with its resistance and experiment with mutations that optimize its infectiousness in that population.
> > > > >
> > > > > > If it can circulate at all. It's got to infect people and reproduce before it can mutate into something more infectious, and at the moment vaccinated people are hard to infect, and don't stay infectious for long. The volume of new viral particles the produce is relatively low, so the the chance that one of them is any kind of mutant, let alone a more infectious strain, is correspondingly low.
> > > > >
> > > > > There's no scientific data to support your ridiculous statement.
> > >
> > > > None that you can understand.
> > >
> > > You're the one with major cognition issues as I point out below.
> > You do make that claim from time to time. You seem incapable of backing it up.
> > > > > Peru is being vaccinated with Chinese whole virus vaccines.
> > > >
> > > > So is Indonesia. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence about fully vaccinated Indonesian medical staff getting sick with Covid-19, and quite a few of them dying.
> > >
> > > If it's a proper whole virus vaccine then they will have antibodies for the RBD region of the spike.
> >
> > The antibodies for a whole virus vaccine recognise a substantial chunk of the virus envelope, including several spike proteins and their receptor bonding domains. The spacing of the spike proteins matters, so it is relatively easy for a new strain to move them around enough to wreck the match.
> >
> > >The difference is it will just be a small subset of their antibody response when their immunity gets activated by a live virus, which means their response will be slower, and that makes all the difference.
> >
> > What a load of cobblers. The antibody won't detect one or more receptor bonding domains as anything more than another segment of the area of virus envelope surface. It reacts to the whole surface.
> >
> > I don't know what you thought you were pointing out - but what you have pointed out is that you've got some potty misconception about what the receptor bonding domain bonds to - it's just the human ACE-2 receptor site, and nothing else. Antibodies don't bother decorating their surface with copies of the ACE-2 receptor site.
>
> You're even dumber and more ignorant than I imagined if you think the immunity develops some kind of whole virus antibody in response to a whole virus vaccine.

I didn't say that the antibody reacts to the whole virus, but - as Martin Brown has pointed out - antibodies produced in response to an infection react to appreciable chunks of the viral shell. I'd imagine that the antibodies developed in response to a whole virus vaccine would work much the same way.

The dumb ignorance on display here is yours - as usual
> Time for you to just hang it up.

Funny you should mention that. This is just one more example of you posting a response that missed the point, and - in fact - .didn't make an attempt to engage with the points I'd raised. Pretending to be contemptuous when you are merely confused isn't something you can hope to get away with

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney