On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 10:08:48 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 6:55:45 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> > On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 14:53:25 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 4:37:24 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> > >> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:02:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> > >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >Preliminarily... that is. It's very infectious and fast spreading.
> > >> >
> > >> >https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/567771-study-says-new-lambda-variant-could-be-vaccine
> > >> >
> > >> >https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.454085v1.full
> > >> Daily deaths in Peru are down about 15:1 from their peak in May. It's
> > >> going away, vaccine or not.
> > >
> > >Peru has highest COVID death rate in the world.
> > Maybe had. Not now.
> >
> > https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/peru/
> >
> > Way past peak.
> >
> > Mexico is approaching an all-time peak. A few others are close to new
> > peaks.
> Lambda is the one they've been waiting for to mutate into full vaccine resistance. The virologists are saying it won't be a problem in US because it can't compete with Delta. That is true but only for the unvaccinated population. The vaccine eliminates the Delta competition in the vaccinated population, so the lambda can circulate there with its resistance and experiment with mutations that optimize its infectiousness in that population..

Pretty much everything you wrote is nonsense. There is no competition between virus strands in the sense that it's a zero sum game like selling soap. When selling soap you can't significantly change the demand for soap, you can only steal market share from other brands. Any strain of the virus works against the resistance factors independent of any other strain with the only competition happening if one strain is so effective or dangerous that it prompts a new response from the population. That effect would appear to be minimal in most human populations so no real competition.

There is no reason to think the Lambda strain is even capable of mutating into a strain with full resistance to the current vaccines. That depends on there being an adequately infectious version of the spike protein that is not recognized by the antibodies produced by the vaccines AND there being a path of mutation, a very small number of mutations at a time, that connects that variant to existing variants. There may be such a variant, but we won't know that until we find it. The point is your statement assumes that exists which is not known at this time.

Talking about competition between strains is nonsense.

--

Rick C.

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On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 10:52:50 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 07:08:44 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 6:55:45 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 14:53:25 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 4:37:24 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> >> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:02:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Preliminarily... that is. It's very infectious and fast spreading.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/567771-study-says-new-lambda-variant-could-be-vaccine
> >> >> >
> >> >> >https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.454085v1.full
> >> >> Daily deaths in Peru are down about 15:1 from their peak in May. It's
> >> >> going away, vaccine or not.
> >> >
> >> >Peru has highest COVID death rate in the world.
> >> Maybe had. Not now.
> >>
> >> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/peru/
> >>
> >> Way past peak.
> >>
> >> Mexico is approaching an all-time peak. A few others are close to new
> >> peaks.
> >
> >Lambda is the one they've been waiting for to mutate into full vaccine resistance. The virologists are saying it won't be a problem in US because it can't compete with Delta. That is true but only for the unvaccinated population. The vaccine eliminates the Delta competition in the vaccinated population, so the lambda can circulate there with its resistance and experiment with mutations that optimize its infectiousness in that population..
> Delta is like a free vaccine.
>
> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/

If people are "hesitant" to take the vaccine, why on earth would they be happy to get infected with delta???

Some of the most ignorant statements come from this guy and people welcome those pearls. WTF!?

--

Rick C.

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On Tuesday, August 17, 2021 at 6:45:52 AM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 10:08:48 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 6:55:45 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> > > On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 14:53:25 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> > > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 4:37:24 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> > > >> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:02:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> > > >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> >Preliminarily... that is. It's very infectious and fast spreading..
> > > >> >
> > > >> >https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/567771-study-says-new-lambda-variant-could-be-vaccine
> > > >> >
> > > >> >https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.454085v1.full
> > > >> Daily deaths in Peru are down about 15:1 from their peak in May. It's
> > > >> going away, vaccine or not.
> > > >
> > > >Peru has highest COVID death rate in the world.
> > > Maybe had. Not now.
> > >
> > > https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/peru/
> > >
> > > Way past peak.
> > >
> > > Mexico is approaching an all-time peak. A few others are close to new
> > > peaks.
> > Lambda is the one they've been waiting for to mutate into full vaccine resistance. The virologists are saying it won't be a problem in US because it can't compete with Delta. That is true but only for the unvaccinated population. The vaccine eliminates the Delta competition in the vaccinated population, so the lambda can circulate there with its resistance and experiment with mutations that optimize its infectiousness in that population..
> Pretty much everything you wrote is nonsense. There is no competition between virus strands in the sense that it's a zero sum game like selling soap.. When selling soap you can't significantly change the demand for soap, you can only steal market share from other brands. Any strain of the virus works against the resistance factors independent of any other strain with the only competition happening if one strain is so effective or dangerous that it prompts a new response from the population. That effect would appear to be minimal in most human populations so no real competition.
>
> There is no reason to think the Lambda strain is even capable of mutating into a strain with full resistance to the current vaccines. That depends on there being an adequately infectious version of the spike protein that is not recognized by the antibodies produced by the vaccines AND there being a path of mutation, a very small number of mutations at a time, that connects that variant to existing variants. There may be such a variant, but we won't know that until we find it. The point is your statement assumes that exists which is not known at this time.
>
> Talking about competition between strains is nonsense.

It's important to track different strains to identify spreading pattern. Delta is spreading internationally, but D614G is spreading locally. So, restricting international movements does not help much, when we have so much local travellings.

We are clearly seeing two different paths: Delta without D614G and D614G with other mutations. Data indicates that over 90% of new cases are locally spreading D614G (ABC), not Delta (D).

Aug 2021 (27917 samples)
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__USA/AZ_(__482)_|___6%___7%___8%__79%___8%___1%__91%___7%_|__0%__0%_12%_79%__6%__1%__2%
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__USA/WA_(_1128)_|___8%__10%___9%__64%__11%___3%__83%__10%_|__0%__1%_18%_63%__8%__2%_10%
__USA/CA_(_9581)_|___3%___6%___4%__86%___5%___1%__91%___4%_|__0%__2%__6%_82%__3%__1%__5%
__/CA-LA_(__145)_|___3%__11%___7%__58%___8%___4%__86%___7%_|__0%__4%_21%_57%__3%__3%_10%
_________________|_417N_452R_478K_484Q_501Y_570D_614G_681R_|___W___A___B___C___D___E___O
W=WuHan_A=452R+614G_B=484E+614G_C=484Q+614G_D=452R+478K+614T+681R_E=452R+570D_O=Other

On Monday, August 16, 2021 at 9:21:43 AM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Monday, August 16, 2021 at 7:56:38 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 7:36:32 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > On Monday, August 16, 2021 at 1:05:19 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 10:39:28 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 1:56:36 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 11:36:43 AM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The virologists are saying it won't be a problem in US because it can't compete with Delta. That is true but only for the unvaccinated population. The vaccine eliminates the Delta competition in the vaccinated population, so the lambda can circulate there with its resistance and experiment with mutations that optimize its infectiousness in that population.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > If it can circulate at all. It's got to infect people and reproduce before it can mutate into something more infectious, and at the moment vaccinated people are hard to infect, and don't stay infectious for long.. The volume of new viral particles the produce is relatively low, so the the chance that one of them is any kind of mutant, let alone a more infectious strain, is correspondingly low.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There's no scientific data to support your ridiculous statement..
> > > >
> > > > > None that you can understand.
> > > >
> > > > You're the one with major cognition issues as I point out below.
> > > You do make that claim from time to time. You seem incapable of backing it up.
> > > > > > Peru is being vaccinated with Chinese whole virus vaccines.
> > > > >
> > > > > So is Indonesia. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence about fully vaccinated Indonesian medical staff getting sick with Covid-19, and quite a few of them dying.
> > > >
> > > > If it's a proper whole virus vaccine then they will have antibodies for the RBD region of the spike.
> > >
> > > The antibodies for a whole virus vaccine recognise a substantial chunk of the virus envelope, including several spike proteins and their receptor bonding domains. The spacing of the spike proteins matters, so it is relatively easy for a new strain to move them around enough to wreck the match.
> > >
> > > >The difference is it will just be a small subset of their antibody response when their immunity gets activated by a live virus, which means their response will be slower, and that makes all the difference.
> > >
> > > What a load of cobblers. The antibody won't detect one or more receptor bonding domains as anything more than another segment of the area of virus envelope surface. It reacts to the whole surface.
> > >
> > > I don't know what you thought you were pointing out - but what you have pointed out is that you've got some potty misconception about what the receptor bonding domain bonds to - it's just the human ACE-2 receptor site, and nothing else. Antibodies don't bother decorating their surface with copies of the ACE-2 receptor site.
> >
> > You're even dumber and more ignorant than I imagined if you think the immunity develops some kind of whole virus antibody in response to a whole virus vaccine.
> I didn't say that the antibody reacts to the whole virus, but - as Martin Brown has pointed out - antibodies produced in response to an infection react to appreciable chunks of the viral shell. I'd imagine that the antibodies developed in response to a whole virus vaccine would work much the same way.

That is such an idiotically elementary observation it's not even worth mentioning. No kidding- the capsid proteins elicit antibodies- my, my, my- what a brainiac you are!

>
> The dumb ignorance on display here is yours - as usual
> > Time for you to just hang it up.
> Funny you should mention that. This is just one more example of you posting a response that missed the point, and - in fact - .didn't make an attempt to engage with the points I'd raised. Pretending to be contemptuous when you are merely confused isn't something you can hope to get away with

Amazing that someone working at such a low level of comprehension can think they're on top of it. That's called delusional.

>
> --
> Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Tuesday, August 17, 2021 at 9:45:52 AM UTC-4, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
<snipped juvenile and ignorant rant>

What makes you think I'm interested in your opinion when there's nothing to recommend it? All you ever do is shoot your mouth off the cuff without the slightest substantiation. What is this? 5th grader pseudo-discussion time or something?

Talk about arrested development.

>
> --
>
> Rick C.
>
> + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
> + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Wednesday, August 18, 2021 at 1:21:40 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Monday, August 16, 2021 at 9:21:43 AM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > On Monday, August 16, 2021 at 7:56:38 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 7:36:32 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > On Monday, August 16, 2021 at 1:05:19 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 10:39:28 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 1:56:36 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > > > > On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 11:36:43 AM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

<snip>

> > > You're even dumber and more ignorant than I imagined if you think the immunity develops some kind of whole virus antibody in response to a whole virus vaccine.
> > I didn't say that the antibody reacts to the whole virus, but - as Martin Brown has pointed out - antibodies produced in response to an infection react to appreciable chunks of the viral shell. I'd imagine that the antibodies developed in response to a whole virus vaccine would work much the same way.
>
> That is such an idiotically elementary observation it's not even worth mentioning. No kidding- the capsid proteins elicit antibodies- my, my, my- what a brainiac you are!

But an elementary observation that you don't seem to have got your head around.

> > The dumb ignorance on display here is yours - as usual
> >
> > > Time for you to just hang it up.
> > Funny you should mention that. This is just one more example of you posting a response that missed the point, and - in fact - .didn't make an attempt to engage with the points I'd raised. Pretending to be contemptuous when you are merely confused isn't something you can hope to get away with.
>
> Amazing that someone working at such a low level of comprehension can think they're on top of it. That's called delusional.

That does seem to be your problem.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Wednesday, August 18, 2021 at 1:26:45 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 17, 2021 at 9:45:52 AM UTC-4, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> <snipped juvenile and ignorant rant>
>
> What makes you think I'm interested in your opinion when there's nothing to recommend it? All you ever do is shoot your mouth off the cuff without the slightest substantiation. What is this? 5th grader pseudo-discussion time or something?
>
> Talk about arrested development.

Always nice to see Fred's carefully reasoned arguments. He'll be complaining about hens clucking any moment now.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 11:36:43 AM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 12:52:50 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>
> > The virologists are saying it won't be a problem in US because it can't compete with Delta. That is true but only for the unvaccinated population. The vaccine eliminates the Delta competition in the vaccinated population, so the lambda can circulate there with its resistance and experiment with mutations that optimize its infectiousness in that population.
> If it can circulate at all. It's got to infect people and reproduce before it can mutate into something more infectious, and at the moment vaccinated people are hard to infect, and don't stay infectious for long. The volume of new viral particles the produce is relatively low, so the the chance that one of them is any kind of mutant, let alone a more infectious strain, is correspondingly low.

Mutations are random, so resistance to the vaccine can develop in the unvaccinated population. As long as the mutation doesn't make it significantly less infectious it will multiply and spread in the unvaccinated and spread to the vaccinated. It will likely spread faster in the vaccinated population since they tend to use less protective measures... in some cases by the rules.

> > Delta is like a free vaccine.
> >
> > https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/
> This is one of John Larkin's persistent stupidiities. He sees infection rates peak and then decline, and thinks that this is because the virus is changing. It isn't.
> What happens is that when enough people get sick and start dying in attention-getting numbers, everybody gets a lot more cautious and infection rates plummet.
>
> It's people's behaviour that changes, not the virus. Not that the virus doesn't change a bit as new strains come up, but it doesn't stop infecting people.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

--

Rick C.

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On Tuesday, August 17, 2021 at 11:26:45 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 17, 2021 at 9:45:52 AM UTC-4, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> <snipped juvenile and ignorant rant>
>
> What makes you think I'm interested in your opinion when there's nothing to recommend it? All you ever do is shoot your mouth off the cuff without the slightest substantiation. What is this? 5th grader pseudo-discussion time or something?
>
> Talk about arrested development.

A pali clone. Oh, well.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209