Leadership is non-existent and stupid. These worthless effete and corrupt people have been saying for weeks that the Taliban gains were insignificant and all the territories and cities could be easily retaken. They were beyond wrong, failing to realize the losses were indicative of something being SERIOULSY WRONG with their security forces. The military leadership lies to troops in the field so they stopped listening to them. They're not going fight for idiots who disrespect them.
Biden was equally delusional parroting what was obviously a bunch irrelevant Pentagon fiction about so many hundred thousand security forces, and close air support aircraft, and millions investment here and trillions investment there. He's oblivious to the fact of those meta-statistics overlook the fact the security forces are obviously poorly trained and ineffective, morale is low, and they have no desire to fight the Taliban.
Not looking good that anyone and everyone is bailing out of the place before the slaughter starts. When Kabul falls any hour now, which will be more by capitulation than military defeat, the game is over, and they can't whitewash that. The government bigwigs will all be gone by chartered jet quite soon.

Afghan president appeals for help as Taliban close in on capital
https://thehill.com/policy/international/567855-afghanistan-president-appeals-for-help-as-taliban-close-in-on-capital

On 8/14/2021 3:42 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> Leadership is non-existent and stupid. These worthless effete and corrupt people have been saying for weeks that the Taliban gains were insignificant and all the territories and cities could be easily retaken. They were beyond wrong, failing to realize the losses were indicative of something being SERIOULSY WRONG with their security forces. The military leadership lies to troops in the field so they stopped listening to them. They're not going fight for idiots who disrespect them.
> Biden was equally delusional parroting what was obviously a bunch irrelevant Pentagon fiction about so many hundred thousand security forces, and close air support aircraft, and millions investment here and trillions investment there. He's oblivious to the fact of those meta-statistics overlook the fact the security forces are obviously poorly trained and ineffective, morale is low, and they have no desire to fight the Taliban.
> Not looking good that anyone and everyone is bailing out of the place before the slaughter starts. When Kabul falls any hour now, which will be more by capitulation than military defeat, the game is over, and they can't whitewash that. The government bigwigs will all be gone by chartered jet quite soon.
>
> Afghan president appeals for help as Taliban close in on capital
> https://thehill.com/policy/international/567855-afghanistan-president-appeals-for-help-as-taliban-close-in-on-capital
>

Leaving Afghanistan was the second-worst decision, next to going in the
first place

On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 3:44:50 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
> On 8/14/2021 3:42 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > Leadership is non-existent and stupid. These worthless effete and corrupt people have been saying for weeks that the Taliban gains were insignificant and all the territories and cities could be easily retaken. They were beyond wrong, failing to realize the losses were indicative of something being SERIOULSY WRONG with their security forces. The military leadership lies to troops in the field so they stopped listening to them. They're not going fight for idiots who disrespect them.
> > Biden was equally delusional parroting what was obviously a bunch irrelevant Pentagon fiction about so many hundred thousand security forces, and close air support aircraft, and millions investment here and trillions investment there. He's oblivious to the fact of those meta-statistics overlook the fact the security forces are obviously poorly trained and ineffective, morale is low, and they have no desire to fight the Taliban.
> > Not looking good that anyone and everyone is bailing out of the place before the slaughter starts. When Kabul falls any hour now, which will be more by capitulation than military defeat, the game is over, and they can't whitewash that. The government bigwigs will all be gone by chartered jet quite soon.
> >
> > Afghan president appeals for help as Taliban close in on capital
> > https://thehill.com/policy/international/567855-afghanistan-president-appeals-for-help-as-taliban-close-in-on-capital
> >
> Leaving Afghanistan was the second-worst decision, next to going in the
> first place

No time would have been a good time. All they were doing was milking the U.S. for as much aid as possible. They were never serious about making themselves self-sufficient.

On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 3:44:50 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
> On 8/14/2021 3:42 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > Leadership is non-existent and stupid. These worthless effete and corrupt people have been saying for weeks that the Taliban gains were insignificant and all the territories and cities could be easily retaken. They were beyond wrong, failing to realize the losses were indicative of something being SERIOULSY WRONG with their security forces. The military leadership lies to troops in the field so they stopped listening to them. They're not going fight for idiots who disrespect them.
> > Biden was equally delusional parroting what was obviously a bunch irrelevant Pentagon fiction about so many hundred thousand security forces, and close air support aircraft, and millions investment here and trillions investment there. He's oblivious to the fact of those meta-statistics overlook the fact the security forces are obviously poorly trained and ineffective, morale is low, and they have no desire to fight the Taliban.
> > Not looking good that anyone and everyone is bailing out of the place before the slaughter starts. When Kabul falls any hour now, which will be more by capitulation than military defeat, the game is over, and they can't whitewash that. The government bigwigs will all be gone by chartered jet quite soon.
> >
> > Afghan president appeals for help as Taliban close in on capital
> > https://thehill.com/policy/international/567855-afghanistan-president-appeals-for-help-as-taliban-close-in-on-capital
> >
> Leaving Afghanistan was the second-worst decision, next to going in the
> first place
Yes,

When I saw the ladies in Burkas with a purple finger I knew we lost. also when George Bush threw his own (very young) soldiers under the bus over the ABU-GABU- whatever prison nothing burger I knew we made a mistake.

On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 4:29:19 PM UTC-4, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 3:44:50 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
> > On 8/14/2021 3:42 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > Leadership is non-existent and stupid. These worthless effete and corrupt people have been saying for weeks that the Taliban gains were insignificant and all the territories and cities could be easily retaken. They were beyond wrong, failing to realize the losses were indicative of something being SERIOULSY WRONG with their security forces. The military leadership lies to troops in the field so they stopped listening to them. They're not going fight for idiots who disrespect them.
> > > Biden was equally delusional parroting what was obviously a bunch irrelevant Pentagon fiction about so many hundred thousand security forces, and close air support aircraft, and millions investment here and trillions investment there. He's oblivious to the fact of those meta-statistics overlook the fact the security forces are obviously poorly trained and ineffective, morale is low, and they have no desire to fight the Taliban.
> > > Not looking good that anyone and everyone is bailing out of the place before the slaughter starts. When Kabul falls any hour now, which will be more by capitulation than military defeat, the game is over, and they can't whitewash that. The government bigwigs will all be gone by chartered jet quite soon.
> > >
> > > Afghan president appeals for help as Taliban close in on capital
> > > https://thehill.com/policy/international/567855-afghanistan-president-appeals-for-help-as-taliban-close-in-on-capital
> > >
> > Leaving Afghanistan was the second-worst decision, next to going in the
> > first place
> Yes,
>
> When I saw the ladies in Burkas with a purple finger I knew we lost. also when George Bush threw his own (very young) soldiers under the bus over the ABU-GABU- whatever prison nothing burger I knew we made a mistake.

They weren't soldiers, they were Internment/Resettlement (I/R) Specialists. That's completely different. Their performance in Iraq pretty much gave away the kind of people they are.
https://www.thebalancecareers.com/31e-internment-resettlement-specialist-3346000

Sounds like a hodgepodge of dregs the Army just slapped together to do prison duty
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bal-ghraib-story.html

The head honcho was some Nazi looking dyke woman.

In article <ed8eb111-6898-4163-a08b-542817255fb6n@googlegroups.com>,
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com says...
> >
> > Leaving Afghanistan was the second-worst decision, next to going in the
> > first place
>
> No time would have been a good time. All they were doing was milking the U.S. for as much aid as possible. They were never serious about making themselves self-sufficient.
>
>

The people in Arab land have been fighting for thousands of years. They
do not care who they fight as long as they fight.

The US and other countries should just pull out and leave them alone to
do their own fighting.

On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 5:08:52 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <ed8eb111-6898-4163...@googlegroups.com>,
> bloggs.fred...@gmail.com says...
> > >
> > > Leaving Afghanistan was the second-worst decision, next to going in the
> > > first place
> >
> > No time would have been a good time. All they were doing was milking the U.S. for as much aid as possible. They were never serious about making themselves self-sufficient.
> >
> >
> The people in Arab land have been fighting for thousands of years. They
> do not care who they fight as long as they fight.
>
> The US and other countries should just pull out and leave them alone to
> do their own fighting.

These people aren't Arab. They run the spectrum of closely related to Indians, to Persians, the Turkics, to more central Asian, Tajiks and Uzbeks. There's even a group there descended from the Mongol invasion who stayed behind, the Hazaras. For the most part they all got along pretty well, even intermarried a lot.

Am 14.08.21 um 23:08 schrieb Ralph Mowery:
> In article <ed8eb111-6898-4163-a08b-542817255fb6n@googlegroups.com>,
> bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com says...
>> >
>>> Leaving Afghanistan was the second-worst decision, next to going in the
>>> first place
>>
>> No time would have been a good time. All they were doing was milking the U.S. for as much aid as possible. They were never serious about making themselves self-sufficient.
>>
>>
>
> The people in Arab land have been fighting for thousands of years. They
> do not care who they fight as long as they fight.
>
> The US and other countries should just pull out and leave them alone to
> do their own fighting.

ROTFL. That from a country that had 12 years without war since
independence, exluding the Indians, and including the big depression
when no one could pre-finance it.

Gerhard

On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 5:07:05 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 4:29:19 PM UTC-4, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 3:44:50 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
> > > On 8/14/2021 3:42 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > Leadership is non-existent and stupid. These worthless effete and corrupt people have been saying for weeks that the Taliban gains were insignificant and all the territories and cities could be easily retaken. They were beyond wrong, failing to realize the losses were indicative of something being SERIOULSY WRONG with their security forces. The military leadership lies to troops in the field so they stopped listening to them. They're not going fight for idiots who disrespect them.
> > > > Biden was equally delusional parroting what was obviously a bunch irrelevant Pentagon fiction about so many hundred thousand security forces, and close air support aircraft, and millions investment here and trillions investment there. He's oblivious to the fact of those meta-statistics overlook the fact the security forces are obviously poorly trained and ineffective, morale is low, and they have no desire to fight the Taliban.
> > > > Not looking good that anyone and everyone is bailing out of the place before the slaughter starts. When Kabul falls any hour now, which will be more by capitulation than military defeat, the game is over, and they can't whitewash that. The government bigwigs will all be gone by chartered jet quite soon.
> > > >
> > > > Afghan president appeals for help as Taliban close in on capital
> > > > https://thehill.com/policy/international/567855-afghanistan-president-appeals-for-help-as-taliban-close-in-on-capital
> > > >
> > > Leaving Afghanistan was the second-worst decision, next to going in the
> > > first place
> > Yes,
> >
> > When I saw the ladies in Burkas with a purple finger I knew we lost. also when George Bush threw his own (very young) soldiers under the bus over the ABU-GABU- whatever prison nothing burger I knew we made a mistake.
> They weren't soldiers, they were Internment/Resettlement (I/R) Specialists. That's completely different. Their performance in Iraq pretty much gave away the kind of people they are.
> https://www.thebalancecareers.com/31e-internment-resettlement-specialist-3346000
>
> Sounds like a hodgepodge of dregs the Army just slapped together to do prison duty
> https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bal-ghraib-story.html
>
> The head honcho was some Nazi looking dyke woman.

Then you must have really respected George Bush for tossing them under the bus.

On 8/14/2021 5:33 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
> Am 14.08.21 um 23:08 schrieb Ralph Mowery:
>> In article <ed8eb111-6898-4163-a08b-542817255fb6n@googlegroups.com>,
>> bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com says...
>>>   >
>>>> Leaving Afghanistan was the second-worst decision, next to going in the
>>>> first place
>>>
>>> No time would have been a good time. All they were doing was milking
>>> the U.S. for as much aid as possible. They were never serious about
>>> making themselves self-sufficient.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The people in Arab land have been fighting for thousands of years.  They
>> do not care who they fight as long as they fight.
>>
>> The US and other countries should just pull out and leave them alone to
>> do their own fighting.
>
>
> ROTFL. That from a country that had 12 years without war since
> independence, exluding the Indians, and including the big depression
> when no one could pre-finance it.
>
> Gerhard
>

In addition to the usual paleoconservative reanimated Reagan-era ghouls
like Don Rumsfield and Dick Cheney the whole Afghanistan misadventure
was also originally roundly supported by many "anti-war" liberals and
democrat "humanitarians", la dee dah. Never heard of a war to "save the
women and children" they didn't like, or voted down the opportunity to
put a JDAM into some peasant family's house for the same reason, quite a
number of them.

And meanwhile a few months back you got some Fox News talking ghoul
going on about just executing everyone at Gitmo because the "criminals"
there (who've been charged with nothing for years..) have "outlived
their usefulness."

Yes, very fine "Christian nation" we have here, ladies and gentlemen. If
and when Islam conquers the world nobody should be fuckin' surprised.

On 8/14/2021 3:51 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 3:44:50 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
>> On 8/14/2021 3:42 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>> Leadership is non-existent and stupid. These worthless effete and corrupt people have been saying for weeks that the Taliban gains were insignificant and all the territories and cities could be easily retaken. They were beyond wrong, failing to realize the losses were indicative of something being SERIOULSY WRONG with their security forces. The military leadership lies to troops in the field so they stopped listening to them. They're not going fight for idiots who disrespect them.
>>> Biden was equally delusional parroting what was obviously a bunch irrelevant Pentagon fiction about so many hundred thousand security forces, and close air support aircraft, and millions investment here and trillions investment there. He's oblivious to the fact of those meta-statistics overlook the fact the security forces are obviously poorly trained and ineffective, morale is low, and they have no desire to fight the Taliban.
>>> Not looking good that anyone and everyone is bailing out of the place before the slaughter starts. When Kabul falls any hour now, which will be more by capitulation than military defeat, the game is over, and they can't whitewash that. The government bigwigs will all be gone by chartered jet quite soon.
>>>
>>> Afghan president appeals for help as Taliban close in on capital
>>> https://thehill.com/policy/international/567855-afghanistan-president-appeals-for-help-as-taliban-close-in-on-capital
>>>
>> Leaving Afghanistan was the second-worst decision, next to going in the
>> first place
>
> No time would have been a good time. All they were doing was milking the U.S. for as much aid as possible. They were never serious about making themselves self-sufficient.
>

What they were doing:

<https://imgur.com/a/339vxnF>

bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
> On 8/14/2021 3:42 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>> Leadership is non-existent and stupid. These worthless effete and corrupt people have been saying for weeks that the Taliban gains were insignificant and all the territories and cities could be easily retaken. They were beyond wrong, failing to realize the losses were indicative of something being SERIOULSY WRONG with their security forces. The military leadership lies to troops in the field so they stopped listening to them. They're not going fight for idiots who disrespect them.
>> Biden was equally delusional parroting what was obviously a bunch irrelevant Pentagon fiction about so many hundred thousand security forces, and close air support aircraft, and millions investment here and trillions investment there. He's oblivious to the fact of those meta-statistics overlook the fact the security forces are obviously poorly trained and ineffective, morale is low, and they have no desire to fight the Taliban.
>> Not looking good that anyone and everyone is bailing out of the place before the slaughter starts. When Kabul falls any hour now, which will be more by capitulation than military defeat, the game is over, and they can't whitewash that. The government bigwigs will all be gone by chartered jet quite soon.
>>
>> Afghan president appeals for help as Taliban close in on capital
>> https://thehill.com/policy/international/567855-afghanistan-president-appeals-for-help-as-taliban-close-in-on-capital
>>
>
> Leaving Afghanistan was the second-worst decision, next to going in the
> first place

It has surprised me that the US did not consider this a good use-case
for their neutron bombs. They must have developed them for something.
This is a clear case of a country where the country isn't the problem,
but its people are.

On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 11:57:52 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
> On 8/14/2021 3:51 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 3:44:50 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
> >> On 8/14/2021 3:42 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> >>> Leadership is non-existent and stupid. These worthless effete and corrupt people have been saying for weeks that the Taliban gains were insignificant and all the territories and cities could be easily retaken. They were beyond wrong, failing to realize the losses were indicative of something being SERIOULSY WRONG with their security forces. The military leadership lies to troops in the field so they stopped listening to them. They're not going fight for idiots who disrespect them.
> >>> Biden was equally delusional parroting what was obviously a bunch irrelevant Pentagon fiction about so many hundred thousand security forces, and close air support aircraft, and millions investment here and trillions investment there. He's oblivious to the fact of those meta-statistics overlook the fact the security forces are obviously poorly trained and ineffective, morale is low, and they have no desire to fight the Taliban.
> >>> Not looking good that anyone and everyone is bailing out of the place before the slaughter starts. When Kabul falls any hour now, which will be more by capitulation than military defeat, the game is over, and they can't whitewash that. The government bigwigs will all be gone by chartered jet quite soon.
> >>>
> >>> Afghan president appeals for help as Taliban close in on capital
> >>> https://thehill.com/policy/international/567855-afghanistan-president-appeals-for-help-as-taliban-close-in-on-capital
> >>>
> >> Leaving Afghanistan was the second-worst decision, next to going in the
> >> first place
> >
> > No time would have been a good time. All they were doing was milking the U.S. for as much aid as possible. They were never serious about making themselves self-sufficient.
> >
> What they were doing:
>
> <https://imgur.com/a/339vxnF>

Taliban are already entering the city. As usually happens in cases like this, the Afghan police have all abandoned their posts, all the Afghan guards providing security for the Green Zone are nowhere to be found.
People have seen the police changing out of their uniforms. The police are saying they are changing into militia clothing to fight the Taliban, when in fact they are changing into civilian clothes so they can loot the city with impunity before the Taliban can restore order. There's just no limit to the depths of their depravity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJFP1ze7o-4

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/08/15/world/taliban-afghanistan-news

On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 11:21:29 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
> On 8/14/2021 5:33 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
> > Am 14.08.21 um 23:08 schrieb Ralph Mowery:
> >> In article <ed8eb111-6898-4163...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> bloggs.fred...@gmail.com says...
> >>> >
> >>>> Leaving Afghanistan was the second-worst decision, next to going in the
> >>>> first place
> >>>
> >>> No time would have been a good time. All they were doing was milking
> >>> the U.S. for as much aid as possible. They were never serious about
> >>> making themselves self-sufficient.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> The people in Arab land have been fighting for thousands of years. They
> >> do not care who they fight as long as they fight.
> >>
> >> The US and other countries should just pull out and leave them alone to
> >> do their own fighting.
> >
> >
> > ROTFL. That from a country that had 12 years without war since
> > independence, exluding the Indians, and including the big depression
> > when no one could pre-finance it.
> >
> > Gerhard
> >
> In addition to the usual paleoconservative reanimated Reagan-era ghouls
> like Don Rumsfield and Dick Cheney the whole Afghanistan misadventure
> was also originally roundly supported by many "anti-war" liberals and
> democrat "humanitarians", la dee dah. Never heard of a war to "save the
> women and children" they didn't like, or voted down the opportunity to
> put a JDAM into some peasant family's house for the same reason, quite a
> number of them.
>
> And meanwhile a few months back you got some Fox News talking ghoul
> going on about just executing everyone at Gitmo because the "criminals"
> there (who've been charged with nothing for years..) have "outlived
> their usefulness."
>
> Yes, very fine "Christian nation" we have here, ladies and gentlemen. If
> and when Islam conquers the world nobody should be fuckin' surprised.

Islam is actually a Judeo-Christian religion, it was not created in a vacuum, Muhammad was very well educated in Judeo-Christianity. It's just the modern fanatics who want to recreate 7th century lifestyles.

On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 9:22:06 PM UTC+10, Rob wrote:
> bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
> > On 8/14/2021 3:42 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> >>
> >> Leadership is non-existent and stupid. These worthless effete and corrupt people have been saying for weeks that the Taliban gains were insignificant and all the territories and cities could be easily retaken. They were beyond wrong, failing to realize the losses were indicative of something being SERIOULSY WRONG with their security forces. The military leadership lies to troops in the field so they stopped listening to them. They're not going to fight for idiots who disrespect them.

Fred Bloggs grasp of the situation on the ground is astonishingly acute for somebody who hasn't been there, but armchair experts do seem to be expert on their own versin reality. It certainly looks as if the Afghan government has milking the Americans and the other allies for all they can get, and expect to be able to hang onto much of the money they have harvested.

> >> Biden was equally delusional parroting what was obviously a bunch irrelevant Pentagon fiction about so many hundred thousand security forces, and close air support aircraft, and millions investment here and trillions investment there. He's oblivious to the fact of those meta-statistics overlook the fact the security forces are obviously poorly trained and ineffective, morale is low, and they have no desire to fight the Taliban.

And probably never did. Armies cost money, and there are ways of hanging onto most of the money that gets spent while creating only a shadow of the fighting force that money is supposed to be buying. Shakespear's Falstaff talks about some of the techniques, which have been around for a while.

> >> Not looking good that anyone and everyone is bailing out of the place before the slaughter starts. When Kabul falls any hour now, which will be more by capitulation than military defeat, the game is over, and they can't whitewash that. The government bigwigs will all be gone by chartered jet quite soon.
> >>
> >> Afghan president appeals for help as Taliban close in on capital
> >> https://thehill.com/policy/international/567855-afghanistan-president-appeals-for-help-as-taliban-close-in-on-capital
> >
> > Leaving Afghanistan was the second-worst decision, next to going in the
> > first place
> It has surprised me that the US did not consider this a good use-case for their neutron bombs.

Why bother.

> They must have developed them for something.

To capture something worth having?

> This is a clear case of a country where the country isn't the problem, but its people are.

They aren't a problem as long as they stay in Afghanistan, and I've met quite a few who were doing fine in more civilised countries.

Most human beings are educable, but not all societies want to spend the money and time it takes to educate most of the population up to level where they find civilisation attractive. Large chunks of America don't seem to bother. Look at John Larkin - he claims to have been to university - Tulane - but admits to having been selective about what he paid attention to. The Taliban also saves money by not educating women, which isn't clever.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 9:28:20 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 11:21:29 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
> > On 8/14/2021 5:33 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
> > > Am 14.08.21 um 23:08 schrieb Ralph Mowery:
> > >> In article <ed8eb111-6898-4163...@googlegroups.com>,
> > >> bloggs.fred...@gmail.com says...

<snip>

> > Yes, very fine "Christian nation" we have here, ladies and gentlemen. If and when Islam conquers the world nobody should be fuckin' surprised.
>
> Islam is actually a Judeo-Christian religion, it was not created in a vacuum, Muhammad was very well educated in Judeo-Christianity. It's just the modern fanatics who want to recreate 7th century lifestyles.

Would the Fundamentalist Right in America be willing to tolerate anything as advanced as a 7th century lifestyle? Wu Zetian did remarkably well as empress of China in that period.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Zetian

so it was already a bit too advanced to make Fred happy.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 9:31:58 AM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 9:22:06 PM UTC+10, Rob wrote:
> > bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
> > > On 8/14/2021 3:42 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Leadership is non-existent and stupid. These worthless effete and corrupt people have been saying for weeks that the Taliban gains were insignificant and all the territories and cities could be easily retaken. They were beyond wrong, failing to realize the losses were indicative of something being SERIOULSY WRONG with their security forces. The military leadership lies to troops in the field so they stopped listening to them. They're not going to fight for idiots who disrespect them.
>
> Fred Bloggs grasp of the situation on the ground is astonishingly acute for somebody who hasn't been there, but armchair experts do seem to be expert on their own versin reality. It certainly looks as if the Afghan government has milking the Americans and the other allies for all they can get, and expect to be able to hang onto much of the money they have harvested.
> > >> Biden was equally delusional parroting what was obviously a bunch irrelevant Pentagon fiction about so many hundred thousand security forces, and close air support aircraft, and millions investment here and trillions investment there. He's oblivious to the fact of those meta-statistics overlook the fact the security forces are obviously poorly trained and ineffective, morale is low, and they have no desire to fight the Taliban.
> And probably never did. Armies cost money, and there are ways of hanging onto most of the money that gets spent while creating only a shadow of the fighting force that money is supposed to be buying. Shakespear's Falstaff talks about some of the techniques, which have been around for a while.
> > >> Not looking good that anyone and everyone is bailing out of the place before the slaughter starts. When Kabul falls any hour now, which will be more by capitulation than military defeat, the game is over, and they can't whitewash that. The government bigwigs will all be gone by chartered jet quite soon.
> > >>
> > >> Afghan president appeals for help as Taliban close in on capital
> > >> https://thehill.com/policy/international/567855-afghanistan-president-appeals-for-help-as-taliban-close-in-on-capital
> > >
> > > Leaving Afghanistan was the second-worst decision, next to going in the
> > > first place
> > It has surprised me that the US did not consider this a good use-case for their neutron bombs.
> Why bother.
> > They must have developed them for something.
> To capture something worth having?
> > This is a clear case of a country where the country isn't the problem, but its people are.
> They aren't a problem as long as they stay in Afghanistan, and I've met quite a few who were doing fine in more civilised countries.
>
> Most human beings are educable, but not all societies want to spend the money and time it takes to educate most of the population up to level where they find civilisation attractive. Large chunks of America don't seem to bother. Look at John Larkin - he claims to have been to university - Tulane - but admits to having been selective about what he paid attention to. The Taliban also saves money by not educating women, which isn't clever.

Germany and Netherlands are in a bind as they've had to stop deporting their Afghan criminals back to their home country.

>
> --
> Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 6:42:03 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 9:28:20 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 11:21:29 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
> > > On 8/14/2021 5:33 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
> > > > Am 14.08.21 um 23:08 schrieb Ralph Mowery:
> > > >> In article <ed8eb111-6898-4163...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > >> bloggs.fred...@gmail.com says...
> <snip>
> > > Yes, very fine "Christian nation" we have here, ladies and gentlemen. If and when Islam conquers the world nobody should be fuckin' surprised.
> >
> > Islam is actually a Judeo-Christian religion, it was not created in a vacuum, Muhammad was very well educated in Judeo-Christianity. It's just the modern fanatics who want to recreate 7th century lifestyles.
> Would the Fundamentalist Right in America be willing to tolerate anything as advanced as a 7th century lifestyle? Wu Zetian did remarkably well as empress of China in that period.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Zetian

7th century China did not aim to eliminate all freedom and religion including Islam. I wonder why Iran is cooperating with Communism (a religion) to eliminate their own religion. Afghan is just another Iran wanna be.

On 8/15/2021 7:22 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 11:57:52 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
>> On 8/14/2021 3:51 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>> On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 3:44:50 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
>>>> On 8/14/2021 3:42 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>> Leadership is non-existent and stupid. These worthless effete and corrupt people have been saying for weeks that the Taliban gains were insignificant and all the territories and cities could be easily retaken. They were beyond wrong, failing to realize the losses were indicative of something being SERIOULSY WRONG with their security forces. The military leadership lies to troops in the field so they stopped listening to them. They're not going fight for idiots who disrespect them.
>>>>> Biden was equally delusional parroting what was obviously a bunch irrelevant Pentagon fiction about so many hundred thousand security forces, and close air support aircraft, and millions investment here and trillions investment there. He's oblivious to the fact of those meta-statistics overlook the fact the security forces are obviously poorly trained and ineffective, morale is low, and they have no desire to fight the Taliban.
>>>>> Not looking good that anyone and everyone is bailing out of the place before the slaughter starts. When Kabul falls any hour now, which will be more by capitulation than military defeat, the game is over, and they can't whitewash that. The government bigwigs will all be gone by chartered jet quite soon.
>>>>>
>>>>> Afghan president appeals for help as Taliban close in on capital
>>>>> https://thehill.com/policy/international/567855-afghanistan-president-appeals-for-help-as-taliban-close-in-on-capital
>>>>>
>>>> Leaving Afghanistan was the second-worst decision, next to going in the
>>>> first place
>>>
>>> No time would have been a good time. All they were doing was milking the U.S. for as much aid as possible. They were never serious about making themselves self-sufficient.
>>>
>> What they were doing:
>>
>> <https://imgur.com/a/339vxnF>
>
> Taliban are already entering the city. As usually happens in cases like this, the Afghan police have all abandoned their posts, all the Afghan guards providing security for the Green Zone are nowhere to be found.
> People have seen the police changing out of their uniforms. The police are saying they are changing into militia clothing to fight the Taliban, when in fact they are changing into civilian clothes so they can loot the city with impunity before the Taliban can restore order. There's just no limit to the depths of their depravity
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJFP1ze7o-4
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/08/15/world/taliban-afghanistan-news
>

Taliban may lure the remaining Americans and Afghans wanting to escape
into thinking they're safe to evacuate at the airport, and then Allahu
Akbar kamikaze-strike the hell out of the place for good measure.

"it is necessary for Taliban to give assurance to all the people,
tribes, different segments, sisters and women of Afghanistan and to make
clear plans and share them with the public,” Ghani wrote."

Lol yeah sure, it'll be back to farming poppies, cutting people's hands
off for theft, and stoning 12 year old girls for showing an ankle in no
time.

On 8/15/2021 7:20 AM, Rob wrote:
> bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>> On 8/14/2021 3:42 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>> Leadership is non-existent and stupid. These worthless effete and corrupt people have been saying for weeks that the Taliban gains were insignificant and all the territories and cities could be easily retaken. They were beyond wrong, failing to realize the losses were indicative of something being SERIOULSY WRONG with their security forces. The military leadership lies to troops in the field so they stopped listening to them. They're not going fight for idiots who disrespect them.
>>> Biden was equally delusional parroting what was obviously a bunch irrelevant Pentagon fiction about so many hundred thousand security forces, and close air support aircraft, and millions investment here and trillions investment there. He's oblivious to the fact of those meta-statistics overlook the fact the security forces are obviously poorly trained and ineffective, morale is low, and they have no desire to fight the Taliban.
>>> Not looking good that anyone and everyone is bailing out of the place before the slaughter starts. When Kabul falls any hour now, which will be more by capitulation than military defeat, the game is over, and they can't whitewash that. The government bigwigs will all be gone by chartered jet quite soon.
>>>
>>> Afghan president appeals for help as Taliban close in on capital
>>> https://thehill.com/policy/international/567855-afghanistan-president-appeals-for-help-as-taliban-close-in-on-capital
>>>
>>
>> Leaving Afghanistan was the second-worst decision, next to going in the
>> first place
>
> It has surprised me that the US did not consider this a good use-case
> for their neutron bombs. They must have developed them for something.
> This is a clear case of a country where the country isn't the problem,
> but its people are.
>

Yeah, Americans got problems, I think the country itself is quite nice
and has a lot to like about it.

Anyway, nobody's bombing nobody. Nobody from Afghanistan has ever done
shit to me. Put a neutron bomb up Dick Cheney, George Bush, Bill
Clinton, or Joe "The Bomber" Biden's assholes if you want to be pissed
wat someone.

In this rare instance Donnie Trumpo gets a pass; he preferred to run his
hustles at home instead of overseas and figured dying in a war was for
suckers. On that point he wasn't wrong.

On 8/15/2021 5:27 PM, bitrex wrote:
> On 8/15/2021 7:20 AM, Rob wrote:
>> bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>>> On 8/14/2021 3:42 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>> Leadership is non-existent and stupid. These worthless effete and
>>>> corrupt  people have been saying for weeks that the Taliban gains
>>>> were insignificant and all the territories and cities could be
>>>> easily retaken. They were beyond wrong, failing to realize the
>>>> losses were indicative of something being SERIOULSY WRONG with their
>>>> security forces. The military leadership lies to troops in the field
>>>> so they stopped listening to them. They're not going fight for
>>>> idiots who disrespect them.
>>>> Biden was equally delusional parroting what was obviously a bunch
>>>> irrelevant Pentagon fiction about so many hundred thousand security
>>>> forces, and close air support aircraft, and millions investment here
>>>> and trillions investment there. He's oblivious to the fact of those
>>>> meta-statistics overlook the fact the security forces are obviously
>>>> poorly trained and ineffective, morale is low, and they have no
>>>> desire to fight the Taliban.
>>>> Not looking good that anyone and everyone is bailing out of the
>>>> place before the slaughter starts. When Kabul falls any hour now,
>>>> which will be more by capitulation than military defeat,  the game
>>>> is over, and they can't whitewash that. The government bigwigs will
>>>> all be gone by chartered jet quite soon.
>>>>
>>>> Afghan president appeals for help as Taliban close in on capital
>>>> https://thehill.com/policy/international/567855-afghanistan-president-appeals-for-help-as-taliban-close-in-on-capital
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Leaving Afghanistan was the second-worst decision, next to going in the
>>> first place
>>
>> It has surprised me that the US did not consider this a good use-case
>> for their neutron bombs.  They must have developed them for something.
>> This is a clear case of a country where the country isn't the problem,
>> but its people are.
>>
>
> Yeah, Americans got problems, I think the country itself is quite nice
> and has a lot to like about it.
>
> Anyway, nobody's bombing nobody. Nobody from Afghanistan has ever done
> shit to me. Put a neutron bomb up Dick Cheney, George Bush, Bill
> Clinton, or Joe "The Bomber" Biden's assholes if you want to be pissed
> wat someone.

Oops I'm sorry I forgot about one for B'rock "the Islamic Shock" Obama.
My bad, but he was kind of forgettable.

On Monday, August 16, 2021 at 2:00:34 AM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 6:42:03 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 9:28:20 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 11:21:29 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
> > > > On 8/14/2021 5:33 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
> > > > > Am 14.08.21 um 23:08 schrieb Ralph Mowery:
> > > > >> In article <ed8eb111-6898-4163...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > > >> bloggs.fred...@gmail.com says...
> > <snip>
> > > > Yes, very fine "Christian nation" we have here, ladies and gentlemen. If and when Islam conquers the world nobody should be fuckin' surprised.
> > >
> > > Islam is actually a Judeo-Christian religion, it was not created in a vacuum, Muhammad was very well educated in Judeo-Christianity. It's just the modern fanatics who want to recreate 7th century lifestyles.
> >
> > Would the Fundamentalist Right in America be willing to tolerate anything as advanced as a 7th century lifestyle? Wu Zetian did remarkably well as empress of China in that period.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Zetian
>
> 7th century China did not aim to eliminate all freedom and religion including Islam. I wonder why Iran is cooperating with Communism (a religion) to eliminate their own religion. Afghan is just another Iran wanna be.

Communism isn't a religion. It's pretty irrational, and the power structure is as inflexible as those you see in successful religions, but there's no supernatural element.

Islam was just getting under way in the 7th century, quite a long way from China, so China wouldn't have seen the need to eliminate it.

Iran seems to be performing at a rather higher higher level than Afghanistan. There's been no suggestion - so far - that the Taliban are trying to develop their own nuclear weapons.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 3:16:00 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Monday, August 16, 2021 at 2:00:34 AM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 6:42:03 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 9:28:20 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 11:21:29 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
> > > > > On 8/14/2021 5:33 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
> > > > > > Am 14.08.21 um 23:08 schrieb Ralph Mowery:
> > > > > >> In article <ed8eb111-6898-4163...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > >> bloggs.fred...@gmail.com says...
> > > <snip>
> > > > > Yes, very fine "Christian nation" we have here, ladies and gentlemen. If and when Islam conquers the world nobody should be fuckin' surprised.
> > > >
> > > > Islam is actually a Judeo-Christian religion, it was not created in a vacuum, Muhammad was very well educated in Judeo-Christianity. It's just the modern fanatics who want to recreate 7th century lifestyles.
> > >
> > > Would the Fundamentalist Right in America be willing to tolerate anything as advanced as a 7th century lifestyle? Wu Zetian did remarkably well as empress of China inCCP that period.
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Zetian
> >
> > 7th century China did not aim to eliminate all freedom and religion including Islam. I wonder why Iran is cooperating with Communism (a religion) to eliminate their own religion. Afghan is just another Iran wanna be.
> Communism isn't a religion. It's pretty irrational, and the power structure is as inflexible as those you see in successful religions, but there's no supernatural element.

CCP claims that it is a religion. The ultimate goal is to eliminate any other religion, so the working units dedicate everything for the party.

On 8/15/2021 7:20 AM, Rob wrote:
> bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>> On 8/14/2021 3:42 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>> Leadership is non-existent and stupid. These worthless effete and corrupt people have been saying for weeks that the Taliban gains were insignificant and all the territories and cities could be easily retaken. They were beyond wrong, failing to realize the losses were indicative of something being SERIOULSY WRONG with their security forces. The military leadership lies to troops in the field so they stopped listening to them. They're not going fight for idiots who disrespect them.
>>> Biden was equally delusional parroting what was obviously a bunch irrelevant Pentagon fiction about so many hundred thousand security forces, and close air support aircraft, and millions investment here and trillions investment there. He's oblivious to the fact of those meta-statistics overlook the fact the security forces are obviously poorly trained and ineffective, morale is low, and they have no desire to fight the Taliban.
>>> Not looking good that anyone and everyone is bailing out of the place before the slaughter starts. When Kabul falls any hour now, which will be more by capitulation than military defeat, the game is over, and they can't whitewash that. The government bigwigs will all be gone by chartered jet quite soon.
>>>
>>> Afghan president appeals for help as Taliban close in on capital
>>> https://thehill.com/policy/international/567855-afghanistan-president-appeals-for-help-as-taliban-close-in-on-capital
>>>
>>
>> Leaving Afghanistan was the second-worst decision, next to going in the
>> first place
>
> It has surprised me that the US did not consider this a good use-case
> for their neutron bombs.

PS: enhanced-radiation tactical nuclear weapons were designed for use
against _armor_, like groups of modern (1980s, anyway...) main battle
tanks, which are very resistant to blast and heat from an ordinary
Hiroshima-sized tactical nuke when buttoned up.

Anyone close enough to one going off inside a regular structure is done
for from the blast well before they're inside even the enhanced range of
fast neutrons.

In addition to being potentially fatal to the first crew of a tank the
enhanced radiation also neutron-activates the steel hull and makes it
dangerously radioactive itself, preventing another crew from occupying
it for days or weeks, even if its otherwise still serviceable.

On Monday, August 16, 2021 at 8:21:15 AM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 3:16:00 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > On Monday, August 16, 2021 at 2:00:34 AM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 6:42:03 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 9:28:20 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 11:21:29 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
> > > > > > On 8/14/2021 5:33 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
> > > > > > > Am 14.08.21 um 23:08 schrieb Ralph Mowery:
> > > > > > >> In article <ed8eb111-6898-4163...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > > >> bloggs.fred...@gmail.com says...
> > > > <snip>
> > > > > > Yes, very fine "Christian nation" we have here, ladies and gentlemen. If and when Islam conquers the world nobody should be fuckin' surprised.
> > > > >
> > > > > Islam is actually a Judeo-Christian religion, it was not created in a vacuum, Muhammad was very well educated in Judeo-Christianity. It's just the modern fanatics who want to recreate 7th century lifestyles.
> > > >
> > > > Would the Fundamentalist Right in America be willing to tolerate anything as advanced as a 7th century lifestyle? Wu Zetian did remarkably well as empress of China inCCP that period.
> > > >
> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Zetian
> > >
> > > 7th century China did not aim to eliminate all freedom and religion including Islam. I wonder why Iran is cooperating with Communism (a religion) to eliminate their own religion. Afghan is just another Iran wanna be.
> > Communism isn't a religion. It's pretty irrational, and the power structure is as inflexible as those you see in successful religions, but there's no supernatural element.
>
> CCP claims that it is a religion.

Cite?

> The ultimate goal is to eliminate any other religion, so the working units dedicate everything for the party.

They are anti-religious - Marx described religion as "the opium of the people" which isn't entirely fair, although it is often used that way by politicians - but that doesn't make them a religion, even if religions frequently take the attitude that other religions are wrong, or a at best a primitive version of theirs.

I think that you are pulling your usual trick of not understanding the information you have found.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney