Because this 'thing' is what passes for a teacher today.

https://tinyurl.com/53ank2te
--

"In one word, you reproach us with intending to do away with your property.
Precisely so; that is just what we intend."

- The Communist Manifesto, Marx & Engels.

On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 7:03:35 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:

> Does it matter anymore? Maybe they need the degree, but kids who want to
> learn can learn practically EVERYTHING when they get home and hit the
> Internet.

Oh, they can learn, all right. But that's learning with a depth measured in microns.
Get a scientific article on some subject, and spend a day in the library looking up
the references, and THEN you have a pretty good clue. The internet just gives
a glossy screen image, not an education.

Dunning-Kruger sufferers, like John Doe, do think they can learn it all from the internet.

whit3rd wrote:
===========
> > Does it matter anymore? Maybe they need the degree, but kids who want to
> > learn can learn practically EVERYTHING when they get home and hit the
> > Internet.
>
> Oh, they can learn, all right. But that's learning with a depth measured in microns.

** So true.

> Get a scientific article on some subject, and spend a day in the library looking up
> the references, and THEN you have a pretty good clue. The internet just gives
> a glossy screen image, not an education.
>

** Young students need guidance on *what to learn* without needing the skills to sift out all the chaff from the tiny bit of wheat.
They need defined goals and a bit of testing now and then too.
Home schooling rarely works, unless a parent is a professional teacher with heaps of spare time.
Anecdote:

In the 1960, a US TV program reviewer was asked to describe his job:
" It's much like floating down a sewer in glass bottom boat ".

Ditto for the www.

> Dunning-Kruger sufferers, like John Doe, do think they can learn it all from the internet.

The internet offers one limitless degrees & PhDs in " Pure and Applied Bullshit ".

OTOH social media is just like the famous Babel Fish.

...... Phil

Bullshit...

--
whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

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> Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 22:54:05 -0700 (PDT)
> In-Reply-To: <sfpmth$aum$3@dont-email.me>
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> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Message-ID: <67b60104-7d19-4d68-91bc-667af2e8c623n@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: OT: This is why kids leave state schools dumber than a box of rocks...
> From: whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
> Injection-Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 05:54:05 +0000
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:641182
>
> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 7:03:35 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
>
>> Does it matter anymore? Maybe they need the degree, but kids who want to
>> learn can learn practically EVERYTHING when they get home and hit the
>> Internet.
>
> Oh, they can learn, all right. But that's learning with a depth measured in microns.
> Get a scientific article on some subject, and spend a day in the library looking up
> the references, and THEN you have a pretty good clue. The internet just gives
> a glossy screen image, not an education.
>
> Dunning-Kruger sufferers, like John Doe, do think they can learn it all from the internet.
>

Feels like conversing with Third Worlders...

Saying the Internet has but "a tiny bit of wheat" suggests it is using
smoke signals. Learning how to get the most out of the Internet is an
INVALUABLE skill anybody with at least half a brain should appreciate.
This one's view of parental guidance suggests it has shit for parents.
Sad. Coincidentally, my mom was a teacher. Homeschooling might not work
in Third World countries like Australia, but it works fine here in
America. My neighborhood Internet includes 2 separate providers of gigabit
through fiber, plus another provider of sub gigabit through cable. With
some skill, there's very little I cannot find on the Internet.

But of course you must be intelligent and knowledgeable enough to
understand what you see.

--
Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

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> Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 23:57:29 -0700 (PDT)
> In-Reply-To: <67b60104-7d19-4d68-91bc-667af2e8c623n@googlegroups.com>
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> NNTP-Posting-Host: 121.44.24.17
> References: <ntf0igh8ttrdhs4pcvkacan8ehmisr4263@4ax.com> <sfpmth$aum$3@dont-email.me> <67b60104-7d19-4d68-91bc-667af2e8c623n@googlegroups.com>
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> Subject: Re: OT: This is why kids leave state schools dumber than a box of rocks...
> From: Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>
> Injection-Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 06:57:29 +0000
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> Lines: 34
> Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:641186
>
> whit3rd wrote:
> ===========
>> > Does it matter anymore? Maybe they need the degree, but kids who want to
>> > learn can learn practically EVERYTHING when they get home and hit the
>> > Internet.
>>
>> Oh, they can learn, all right. But that's learning with a depth measured in microns.
>
> ** So true.
>
>> Get a scientific article on some subject, and spend a day in the library looking up
>> the references, and THEN you have a pretty good clue. The internet just gives
>> a glossy screen image, not an education.
>>
>
> ** Young students need guidance on *what to learn* without needing the skills to sift out all the chaff from the tiny bit of wheat.
> They need defined goals and a bit of testing now and then too.
> Home schooling rarely works, unless a parent is a professional teacher with heaps of spare time.
>
> Anecdote:
>
> In the 1960, a US TV program reviewer was asked to describe his job:
> " It's much like floating down a sewer in glass bottom boat ".
>
> Ditto for the www.
>
>
>> Dunning-Kruger sufferers, like John Doe, do think they can learn it all from the internet.
>
> The internet offers one limitless degrees & PhDs in " Pure and Applied Bullshit ".
>
> OTOH social media is just like the famous Babel Fish.
>
>
> ..... Phil
>

John Dope wrote:
==============
>
> Saying the Internet has but "a tiny bit of wheat" suggests it is using
> smoke signals.

** Huh ?? No Indians (ie native Americans) are involved.

> Learning how to get the most out of the Internet is an
> INVALUABLE skill

** I already answered that total absurdity.

> anybody with at least half a brain should appreciate.

** So need more than you have.

> This one's view of parental guidance suggests it has shit for parents.
> Sad. Coincidentally, my mom was a teacher.

** Explains you rabid case of ASD - schoolteacher's disease.

> Homeschooling might not work in Third World countries like Australia,

** ROTFLMAO !!!
America is one of the most fucked up places on earth.
Cos it is full of fucked-up narcissists like you.

> My neighborhood Internet includes 2 separate providers of gigabit
> through fiber, plus another provider of sub gigabit through cable. With
> some skill, there's very little I cannot find on the Internet.

** I love that you ignored all of my valid comments - proves my point massively.
Home schooling produces misfits & fuckwits.

....... Phil

On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 7:20:24 PM UTC+10, John Doe wrote:
>Phil Allison <palli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>whit3rd wrote:
>>>Cursitor Doom <c...@nowhere.com> wrote:

<snip>

> >> > Does it matter anymore? Maybe they need the degree, but kids who want to
> >> > learn can learn practically EVERYTHING when they get home and hit the
> >> > Internet.
> >>
> >> Oh, they can learn, all right. But that's learning with a depth measured in microns.
> >
> > ** So true.
> >
> >> Get a scientific article on some subject, and spend a day in the library looking up
> >> the references, and THEN you have a pretty good clue. The internet just gives
> >> a glossy screen image, not an education.
> >
> > ** Young students need guidance on *what to learn* without needing the skills to sift out all the chaff from the tiny bit of wheat.
> > They need defined goals and a bit of testing now and then too.
> > Home schooling rarely works, unless a parent is a professional teacher with heaps of spare time.
> >
> > Anecdote:
> >
> > In the 1960, a US TV program reviewer was asked to describe his job:
> > " It's much like floating down a sewer in glass bottom boat ".
> >
> > Ditto for the www.
> >
> >> Dunning-Kruger sufferers, like John Doe, do think they can learn it all from the internet.
> >
> > The internet offers one limitless degrees & PhDs in " Pure and Applied Bullshit ".
> >
> > OTOH social media is just like the famous Babel Fish.
>
> Feels like conversing with Third Worlders...
>
> Saying the Internet has but "a tiny bit of wheat" suggests it is using smoke signals.

Wrong. The explicit statement was that it also offers a lot of chaff. The communication system is brilliant. What is being communicated isn't all that reliable.

> Learning how to get the most out of the Internet is an INVALUABLE skill anybody with at least half a brain should appreciate.

John Doe seems to think that he has half a brain. This may be an over-estimate.

> This one's view of parental guidance suggests it has shit for parents.

Mine both had university degrees in chemistry. They were pretty well-read with it. Few kids are that lucky.

> Sad. Coincidentally, my mom was a teacher. Homeschooling might not work in Third World countries like Australia, but it works fine here in America.

Right wing lunatics like it a lot. They can tell their kids all sorts of stuff that any education system would work hard to correct.

> My neighborhood Internet includes 2 separate providers of gigabit through fiber, plus another provider of sub gigabit through cable. With some skill, there's very little I cannot find on the Internet.

Working out which of the information are more or less correct, and which bits are misleading propaganda takes quite a lot of skill.

John Larkin picks the climate change denial propaganda every time. Cursitor Doom goes for the right-wing alarmism.
You seem to prefer the stuff that is unkind to kids with gender uncertainty.

> But of course you must be intelligent and knowledgeable enough to understand what you see.

Or, in John Doe's case , silly enough to think you understand. He's a poster-boy for the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Phil is absolutely right there.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 04:12:08 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
<bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

>On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 7:20:24 PM UTC+10, John Doe wrote:
>>Phil Allison <palli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>whit3rd wrote:
>>>>Cursitor Doom <c...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> >> > Does it matter anymore? Maybe they need the degree, but kids who want to
>> >> > learn can learn practically EVERYTHING when they get home and hit the
>> >> > Internet.
>> >>
>> >> Oh, they can learn, all right. But that's learning with a depth measured in microns.
>> >
>> > ** So true.
>> >
>> >> Get a scientific article on some subject, and spend a day in the library looking up
>> >> the references, and THEN you have a pretty good clue. The internet just gives
>> >> a glossy screen image, not an education.
>> >
>> > ** Young students need guidance on *what to learn* without needing the skills to sift out all the chaff from the tiny bit of wheat.
>> > They need defined goals and a bit of testing now and then too.
>> > Home schooling rarely works, unless a parent is a professional teacher with heaps of spare time.
>> >
>> > Anecdote:
>> >
>> > In the 1960, a US TV program reviewer was asked to describe his job:
>> > " It's much like floating down a sewer in glass bottom boat ".
>> >
>> > Ditto for the www.
>> >
>> >> Dunning-Kruger sufferers, like John Doe, do think they can learn it all from the internet.
>> >
>> > The internet offers one limitless degrees & PhDs in " Pure and Applied Bullshit ".
>> >
>> > OTOH social media is just like the famous Babel Fish.
>>
>> Feels like conversing with Third Worlders...
>>
>> Saying the Internet has but "a tiny bit of wheat" suggests it is using smoke signals.
>
>Wrong. The explicit statement was that it also offers a lot of chaff. The communication system is brilliant. What is being communicated isn't all that reliable.
>
> > Learning how to get the most out of the Internet is an INVALUABLE skill anybody with at least half a brain should appreciate.
>
>John Doe seems to think that he has half a brain. This may be an over-estimate.
>
>> This one's view of parental guidance suggests it has shit for parents.
>
>Mine both had university degrees in chemistry. They were pretty well-read with it. Few kids are that lucky.
>
>> Sad. Coincidentally, my mom was a teacher. Homeschooling might not work in Third World countries like Australia, but it works fine here in America.
>
>Right wing lunatics like it a lot. They can tell their kids all sorts of stuff that any education system would work hard to correct.
>
>> My neighborhood Internet includes 2 separate providers of gigabit through fiber, plus another provider of sub gigabit through cable. With some skill, there's very little I cannot find on the Internet.
>
>Working out which of the information are more or less correct, and which bits are misleading propaganda takes quite a lot of skill.
>
>John Larkin picks the climate change denial propaganda every time. Cursitor Doom goes for the right-wing alarmism.
>You seem to prefer the stuff that is unkind to kids with gender uncertainty.
>
>> But of course you must be intelligent and knowledgeable enough to understand what you see.
>
>Or, in John Doe's case , silly enough to think you understand. He's a poster-boy for the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Phil is absolutely right there.

So anyway, having got your habitual insults out of the way, perhaps
you'd like to tell us what of value the children in the clip learned
from their state school 'teacher' which will be of use to them in the
real world when they eventually need to apply for jobs?
--

"In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single
sentence: abolition of private property."

- The Communist Manifesto, Marx & Engels.

> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

As ironically stated by the John Doe <always.look@message.header> troll
in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me> who has posted yet another
incorectly formatted USENET posting on Sat, 21 Aug 2021 09:20:18 -0000
(UTC) in message-id <sfqggh$k5c$1@dont-email.me>.

> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

As ironically stated by the John Doe <always.look@message.header> troll
in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me> who has posted yet another
incorectly formatted USENET posting on Sat, 21 Aug 2021 08:50:30 -0000
(UTC) in message-id <sfqeom$76s$1@dont-email.me>.

On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 12:02:07 AM UTC+10, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 04:12:08 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
> >On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 7:20:24 PM UTC+10, John Doe wrote:
> >>Phil Allison <palli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>whit3rd wrote:
> >>>>Cursitor Doom <c...@nowhere.com> wrote:

<snip>

> >> Sad. Coincidentally, my mom was a teacher. Homeschooling might not work in Third World countries like Australia, but it works fine here in America.
> >
> >Right wing lunatics like it a lot. They can tell their kids all sorts of stuff that any education system would work hard to correct.
> >
> >> My neighborhood Internet includes 2 separate providers of gigabit through fiber, plus another provider of sub gigabit through cable. With some skill, there's very little I cannot find on the Internet.
> >
> >Working out which of the information are more or less correct, and which bits are misleading propaganda takes quite a lot of skill.
> >
> >John Larkin picks the climate change denial propaganda every time. Cursitor Doom goes for the right-wing alarmism.
>
> >You seem to prefer the stuff that is unkind to kids with gender uncertainty.
> >
> >> But of course you must be intelligent and knowledgeable enough to understand what you see.
> >
> >Or, in John Doe's case , silly enough to think you understand. He's a poster-boy for the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Phil is absolutely right there.
>
> So anyway, having got your habitual insults out of the way, perhaps
> you'd like to tell us what of value the children in the clip learned
> from their state school 'teacher' which will be of use to them in the
> real world when they eventually need to apply for jobs?

Why would I spend any time on something Zero Hedge selected because it would appeal to creeps like you?

There are dumb and undiplomatic teachers, and if they say the wrong thing in front of the wrong kids they end up getting fired.

Utah spends less per head on K-12 education than any other US state - $7,478 a year - and it isn't surprising that they can't hire good teachers. The fact that the state is infested with Mormons can't help

Your subject line doesn't reflect what Zero Hedge was actually reporting, and the fact that Utah doesn't spend much on educating it's kids seems to have passed you by.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 7:53:14 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> Because this 'thing' is what passes for a teacher today.
>
> https://tinyurl.com/53ank2te

For quite some time in the U.S., education majors have ranked as the worst students on campus.

> --
>
> "In one word, you reproach us with intending to do away with your property.
> Precisely so; that is just what we intend."
>
> - The Communist Manifesto, Marx & Engels.

On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 1:21:53 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 7:53:14 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> > Because this 'thing' is what passes for a teacher today.
> >
> > https://tinyurl.com/53ank2te
>
> For quite some time in the U.S., education majors have ranked as the worst students on campus.

Pay peanuts, get monkeys. If it was better paid job, with higher prestige, better students might sign up for education courses.

Utah isn't going to get the cream of the crop. They spend less on primary education than any other US state.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 07:44:22 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
<bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

>On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 12:02:07 AM UTC+10, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 04:12:08 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
>> >On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 7:20:24 PM UTC+10, John Doe wrote:
>> >>Phil Allison <palli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>whit3rd wrote:
>> >>>>Cursitor Doom <c...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> >> Sad. Coincidentally, my mom was a teacher. Homeschooling might not work in Third World countries like Australia, but it works fine here in America.
>> >
>> >Right wing lunatics like it a lot. They can tell their kids all sorts of stuff that any education system would work hard to correct.
>> >
>> >> My neighborhood Internet includes 2 separate providers of gigabit through fiber, plus another provider of sub gigabit through cable. With some skill, there's very little I cannot find on the Internet.
>> >
>> >Working out which of the information are more or less correct, and which bits are misleading propaganda takes quite a lot of skill.
>> >
>> >John Larkin picks the climate change denial propaganda every time. Cursitor Doom goes for the right-wing alarmism.
>>
>> >You seem to prefer the stuff that is unkind to kids with gender uncertainty.
>> >
>> >> But of course you must be intelligent and knowledgeable enough to understand what you see.
>> >
>> >Or, in John Doe's case , silly enough to think you understand. He's a poster-boy for the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Phil is absolutely right there.
>>
>> So anyway, having got your habitual insults out of the way, perhaps
>> you'd like to tell us what of value the children in the clip learned
>> from their state school 'teacher' which will be of use to them in the
>> real world when they eventually need to apply for jobs?
>
>Why would I spend any time on something Zero Hedge selected because it would appeal to creeps like you?
>
>There are dumb and undiplomatic teachers, and if they say the wrong thing in front of the wrong kids they end up getting fired.
>
>Utah spends less per head on K-12 education than any other US state - $7,478 a year - and it isn't surprising that they can't hire good teachers. The fact that the state is infested with Mormons can't help
>
>Your subject line doesn't reflect what Zero Hedge was actually reporting, and the fact that Utah doesn't spend much on educating it's kids seems to have passed you by.

The article I linked to didn't even come from Zero Hedge!
--

"In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single
sentence: abolition of private property."

- The Communist Manifesto, Marx & Engels.

On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 2:20:24 AM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
> Feels like conversing with Third Worlders...
>
> Saying the Internet has but "a tiny bit of wheat" suggests it is using
> smoke signals. Learning how to get the most out of the Internet is an
> INVALUABLE skill ...

> ... My neighborhood Internet includes 2 separate providers of gigabit
> through fiber, plus another provider of sub gigabit through cable. With
> some skill, there's very little I cannot find on the Internet.

Alas, you can find every concept and also every misconception on the Internet.
Infomercials are designed to look like information, and there's
bad actors and AI technology that are churning out LOTS of infomercials.

Science has established communication channels and independent verification
habits to deal with corrupt concepts; it isn't as easy as 'use the internet'.
That internet started (and developed) largely as a science tool, but it's
NOT A TOOLKIT, only one tool.

On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 7:44:26 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 12:02:07 AM UTC+10, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> > On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 04:12:08 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
> > >On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 7:20:24 PM UTC+10, John Doe wrote:
> > >>Phil Allison <palli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>whit3rd wrote:
> > >>>>Cursitor Doom <c...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > >> Sad. Coincidentally, my mom was a teacher. Homeschooling might not work in Third World countries like Australia, but it works fine here in America.
> > >
> > >Right wing lunatics like it a lot. They can tell their kids all sorts of stuff that any education system would work hard to correct.
> > >
> > >> My neighborhood Internet includes 2 separate providers of gigabit through fiber, plus another provider of sub gigabit through cable. With some skill, there's very little I cannot find on the Internet.
> > >
> > >Working out which of the information are more or less correct, and which bits are misleading propaganda takes quite a lot of skill.
> > >
> > >John Larkin picks the climate change denial propaganda every time. Cursitor Doom goes for the right-wing alarmism.
> >
> > >You seem to prefer the stuff that is unkind to kids with gender uncertainty.
> > >
> > >> But of course you must be intelligent and knowledgeable enough to understand what you see.
> > >
> > >Or, in John Doe's case , silly enough to think you understand. He's a poster-boy for the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Phil is absolutely right there.
> >
> > So anyway, having got your habitual insults out of the way, perhaps
> > you'd like to tell us what of value the children in the clip learned
> > from their state school 'teacher' which will be of use to them in the
> > real world when they eventually need to apply for jobs?
> Why would I spend any time on something Zero Hedge selected because it would appeal to creeps like you?
>
> There are dumb and undiplomatic teachers, and if they say the wrong thing in front of the wrong kids they end up getting fired.
>
> Utah spends less per head on K-12 education than any other US state - $7,478 a year - and it isn't surprising that they can't hire good teachers. The fact that the state is infested with Mormons can't help
>
> Your subject line doesn't reflect what Zero Hedge was actually reporting, and the fact that Utah doesn't spend much on educating it's kids seems to have passed you by.
>
> --
> SL0WMAN, Sydney

As usual, SL0WMAN couldn't find his butt hole with both hands - Utah ranks in the top 10 states in the nation for school education:
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education

On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 5:40:29 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
> On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 7:44:26 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

> > Utah spends less per head on K-12 education than any other US state - $7,478 a year - and it isn't surprising that they can't hire good teachers. The fact that the state is infested with Mormons can't help

> ... - Utah ranks in the top 10 states in the nation for school education:
> https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education

How do they know? The usual metric for public education is high school SAT scores,
and Utah doesn't have much participation (3% take that test).

Cursitor Doom wrote:
==================
> Because this 'thing' is what passes for a teacher today.
>
> https://tinyurl.com/53ank2te

** All I see is an average looking, female, primary school teacher concerned about getting Covid.
That is not strange.
She is also a Dem supporter, almost compulsory to be a member of the US teacher's union.
Also not strange.

FYI

In primary school in Melbourne the 60s ( Catholic & run by nuns) the head was Sister Anita.
She told us pupils around election time that she could not abide the leader of the ( Union based) Labor Party - cos he looked ugly and spoke in a working man's voice.
OTOH she greatly admired the leader of the conservative party, Sir Robert Menzies, who was an orator, statesman like and was enamored of Queen Elizabeth.

This despite the fact that the Labor Party was promising increased funds to the Catholic school system - which educated about 25% of all school students in the various states.

........ Phil

On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 12:31:55 PM UTC+10, whit3rd wrote:
> On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 5:40:29 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 7:44:26 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
>
> > > Utah spends less per head on K-12 education than any other US state - $7,478 a year - and it isn't surprising that they can't hire good teachers. The fact that the state is infested with Mormons can't help
> > ... - Utah ranks in the top 10 states in the nation for school education:
> > https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education

It's 21st on K-12 education. It's not clear what US News used to rank the education systems. The percentage of kids who "graduate" - whatever that may mean - seems to come into it so Utah may just be less demanding. rather than better.

Flyguy is a half-wit, and never misses a chance to remind us how truly stupid he is.

> How do they know? The usual metric for public education is high school SAT scores, and Utah doesn't have much participation (3% take that test).

Don't bother asking Flyguy. He won't have clue, and won't understand why it might matter.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On a sunny day (Sat, 21 Aug 2021 13:15:58 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
<whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in
<94a31442-65b9-4623-8040-81047be4ae17n@googlegroups.com>:

>On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 2:20:24 AM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
>> Feels like conversing with Third Worlders...
>>
>> Saying the Internet has but "a tiny bit of wheat" suggests it is using
>> smoke signals. Learning how to get the most out of the Internet is an
>> INVALUABLE skill ...
>
>> ... My neighborhood Internet includes 2 separate providers of gigabit
>> through fiber, plus another provider of sub gigabit through cable. With
>> some skill, there's very little I cannot find on the Internet.
>
>Alas, you can find every concept and also every misconception on the Internet.
>Infomercials are designed to look like information, and there's
>bad actors and AI technology that are churning out LOTS of infomercials.
>
>Science has established communication channels and independent verification
>habits to deal with corrupt concepts; it isn't as easy as 'use the internet'.
>That internet started (and developed) largely as a science tool, but it's
>NOT A TOOLKIT, only one tool.

It is hard to tell, much of peer reviewed science will be proven false in a while,
starting with Neinstein of course :-).
Apart from the meta-physics I find the Internet of great value
~~of course all the wisdum you guys^H^H^H^H persons transfer to me~~
but also a lot from sources like wikipedia, and google searches.

But of course some basics are required, reading, math, basic physics,
to tell truth from fiction, one needs hands on practice too.
Some teachers I had would just make me turn away from the subject and some were very inspiring.
I had great books on electronics / radio / TV that changed the course of my life.
and I do not see how internet cannot provide that.
In the end it is the individual's brain structure, environment he grows up in,
One of the many will move further and maybe break into new science.
I am glad with the source of knowledge the internet provides, google is your answer to many questions
faster than sleeping through a frustrated teacher's parrot hour who does not answer anything.

On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 4:50:45 PM UTC+10, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Sat, 21 Aug 2021 13:15:58 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
> <94a31442-65b9-4623...@googlegroups.com>:
> >On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 2:20:24 AM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:

<snip>

> It is hard to tell, much of peer reviewed science will be proven false in a while,
> starting with Neinstein of course :-).

Unlikely. It may well prove to be over-simplfied. Einstein didn't so much prove Newton wrong as point out that there was more going on that Newton had needed to notice.

> Apart from the meta-physics I find the Internet of great value
> ~~of course all the wisdum you guys^H^H^H^H persons transfer to me~~
> but also a lot from sources like wikipedia, and google searches.
>
> But of course some basics are required, reading, math, basic physics,
> to tell truth from fiction, one needs hands on practice too.
> Some teachers I had would just make me turn away from the subject and some were very inspiring.
> I had great books on electronics / radio / TV that changed the course of my life.
> and I do not see how internet cannot provide that.
> In the end it is the individual's brain structure, environment he grows up in,
> One of the many will move further and maybe break into new science.

More likely they will extend the same old scientific method to new areas. Quantum mechanics made spectroscopy a whole lot more useful.

> I am glad with the source of knowledge the internet provides, google is your answer to many questions
> faster than sleeping through a frustrated teacher's parrot hour who does not answer anything.

Good teachers can organise the information in a way that makes it easier to understand, Bad teachers tend to leave you confused.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On a sunny day (Sun, 22 Aug 2021 08:01:25 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Anthony
William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in
<31ddef78-c221-4d62-8b4e-452b8ffddd29n@googlegroups.com>:

>On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 4:50:45 PM UTC+10, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Sat, 21 Aug 2021 13:15:58 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> <94a31442-65b9-4623...@googlegroups.com>:
>> >On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 2:20:24 AM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> It is hard to tell, much of peer reviewed science will be proven false in a while,
>> starting with Neinstein of course :-).
>
>Unlikely. It may well prove to be over-simplfied. Einstein didn't so much prove Newton wrong as point out that there was more
>going on that Newton had needed to notice.

He failed to unite graffiti with the other force, and he claimed we need no aether, no medium.
Without a mechanism it s all philosophy.

>> Apart from the meta-physics I find the Internet of great value
>> ~~of course all the wisdum you guys^H^H^H^H persons transfer to me~~
>> but also a lot from sources like wikipedia, and google searches.
>>
>> But of course some basics are required, reading, math, basic physics,
>> to tell truth from fiction, one needs hands on practice too.
>> Some teachers I had would just make me turn away from the subject and some were very inspiring.
>> I had great books on electronics / radio / TV that changed the course of my life.
>> and I do not see how internet cannot provide that.
>> In the end it is the individual's brain structure, environment he grows up in,
>> One of the many will move further and maybe break into new science.
>
>More likely they will extend the same old scientific method to new areas. Quantum mechanics made spectroscopy a whole lot more
>useful.

And the kwantuum computah is just around the corner.

>> I am glad with the source of knowledge the internet provides, google is your answer to many questions
>> faster than sleeping through a frustrated teacher's parrot hour who does not answer anything.
>
>Good teachers can organise the information in a way that makes it easier to understand, Bad teachers tend to leave you
>confused.

A simple example, recently there are a series of painting programs on TV featuring Bob Ross
He makes an oil painting in 30 minutes, one that I actually would but ,
while I would not give 10 cent for an Appel or Rembrandt or Dali ... Not even Mona Lisa.

So got a bit interested and the idea of painting a wall using that technique came to me,
looked up "Bobb Ross wikipedia' and amazing!

Now we had a high school art teacher who I got into a fight with about a drawing I made ..
He gave us a figure for drawings of an object.... I won the fight and got an extra point...

But before the internet you would have to go to a library and if you were LUCKY find some references.
Now it took 1 minute to find it and half an hour or so to read and an other hour perhaps to digest it.
And a reference to a youtube channel about his work (have not seen it yet, but recorded the programs from BBC4
and now also from NPO2-extra (Netherlands).

It is the same for 'tronics, so many things I found online.

On Monday, August 23, 2021 at 1:51:56 AM UTC+10, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Sun, 22 Aug 2021 08:01:25 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Anthony
> William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote in
> <31ddef78-c221-4d62...@googlegroups.com>:
> >On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 4:50:45 PM UTC+10, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >> On a sunny day (Sat, 21 Aug 2021 13:15:58 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
> >> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> <94a31442-65b9-4623...@googlegroups.com>:
> >> >On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 2:20:24 AM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> >> It is hard to tell, much of peer reviewed science will be proven false in a while,
> >> starting with Neinstein of course :-).
> >
> >Unlikely. It may well prove to be over-simplfied. Einstein didn't so much prove Newton wrong as point out that there was more
> >going on that Newton had needed to notice.
>
> He failed to unite graffiti with the other force, and he claimed we need no aether, no medium.

We seem to be able to get by without an aether. It's like "dark matter" - useful even if it doesn't actually exist. It would be nice if we could pull gravity into the theory of everything, but Einstein isn't the only guy who hasn't been able to manage it

> Without a mechanism its all philosophy.

But what we are talking about is philosophy anyway. Your demand for a "mechanism" is just part of the philosophy that sort of works for you.

> >> Apart from the meta-physics I find the Internet of great value
> >> ~~of course all the wisdum you guys^H^H^H^H persons transfer to me~~
> >> but also a lot from sources like wikipedia, and google searches.
> >>
> >> But of course some basics are required, reading, math, basic physics,
> >> to tell truth from fiction, one needs hands on practice too.
> >> Some teachers I had would just make me turn away from the subject and some were very inspiring.
> >> I had great books on electronics / radio / TV that changed the course of my life.
> >> and I do not see how internet cannot provide that.
> >> In the end it is the individual's brain structure, environment he grows up in,
> >> One of the many will move further and maybe break into new science.
> >
> >More likely they will extend the same old scientific method to new areas. Quantum mechanics made spectroscopy a whole lot more
> >useful.
>
> And the kwantuum computah is just around the corner.

Not quite the same thing.

> >> I am glad with the source of knowledge the internet provides, google is your answer to many questions
> >> faster than sleeping through a frustrated teacher's parrot hour who does not answer anything.
> >
> >Good teachers can organise the information in a way that makes it easier to understand, Bad teachers tend to leave you
> >confused.

<snip>

> But before the internet you would have to go to a library and if you were LUCKY find some references.
> Now it took 1 minute to find it and half an hour or so to read and an other hour perhaps to digest it.

But, like the library, a lot of what you do find is useless.

> It is the same for 'tronics, so many things I found online.

But never the ones you actually need.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Sun, 22 Aug 2021 06:49:52 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On a sunny day (Sat, 21 Aug 2021 13:15:58 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
><whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in
><94a31442-65b9-4623-8040-81047be4ae17n@googlegroups.com>:
>
>>On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 2:20:24 AM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
>>> Feels like conversing with Third Worlders...
>>>
>>> Saying the Internet has but "a tiny bit of wheat" suggests it is using
>>> smoke signals. Learning how to get the most out of the Internet is an
>>> INVALUABLE skill ...
>>
>>> ... My neighborhood Internet includes 2 separate providers of gigabit
>>> through fiber, plus another provider of sub gigabit through cable. With
>>> some skill, there's very little I cannot find on the Internet.
>>
>>Alas, you can find every concept and also every misconception on the Internet.
>>Infomercials are designed to look like information, and there's
>>bad actors and AI technology that are churning out LOTS of infomercials.
>>
>>Science has established communication channels and independent verification
>>habits to deal with corrupt concepts; it isn't as easy as 'use the internet'.
>>That internet started (and developed) largely as a science tool, but it's
>>NOT A TOOLKIT, only one tool.
>
>It is hard to tell, much of peer reviewed science will be proven false in a while,
>starting with Neinstein of course :-).
>Apart from the meta-physics I find the Internet of great value
>~~of course all the wisdum you guys^H^H^H^H persons transfer to me~~
>but also a lot from sources like wikipedia, and google searches.
>
>But of course some basics are required, reading, math, basic physics,
>to tell truth from fiction, one needs hands on practice too.
>Some teachers I had would just make me turn away from the subject and some were very inspiring.
>I had great books on electronics / radio / TV that changed the course of my life.
>and I do not see how internet cannot provide that.
>In the end it is the individual's brain structure, environment he grows up in,
>One of the many will move further and maybe break into new science.
>I am glad with the source of knowledge the internet provides, google is your answer to many questions
>faster than sleeping through a frustrated teacher's parrot hour who does not answer anything.
>
>

What I would do: sack all the teachers as they cost a fortune and just
spend all their time trying to brainwash students, like that fat lump
in the video I linked to. So - what to replace them with? Well, how
about THIS: https://www.youtube.com/user/Leah4SciTutorials

The kids can watch her vids and learn a damn sight better via this
medium than any state teacher can ever aspire to school them.
Other online tutors are available...
--

"The Communists are further reproached with desiring to abolish countries
and nationality."

- The Communist Manifesto, Marx & Engels

On a sunny day (Sun, 22 Aug 2021 09:19:53 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Anthony
William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in
<d2be8912-27a9-4381-bc7b-29085c596b7fn@googlegroups.com>:

>On Monday, August 23, 2021 at 1:51:56 AM UTC+10, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Sun, 22 Aug 2021 08:01:25 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Anthony
>> William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote in
>> <31ddef78-c221-4d62...@googlegroups.com>:
>> >On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 4:50:45 PM UTC+10, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> >> On a sunny day (Sat, 21 Aug 2021 13:15:58 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
>> >> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >> <94a31442-65b9-4623...@googlegroups.com>:
>> >> >On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 2:20:24 AM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
>> >
>> ><snip>
>> >
>> >> It is hard to tell, much of peer reviewed science will be proven false in a while,
>> >> starting with Neinstein of course :-).
>> >
>> >Unlikely. It may well prove to be over-simplfied. Einstein didn't so much prove Newton wrong as point out that there was more
>> >
>> >going on that Newton had needed to notice.
>>
>> He failed to unite graffiti with the other force, and he claimed we need no aether, no medium.
>
>We seem to be able to get by without an aether. It's like "dark matter" - useful even if it doesn't actually exist. It would be
>nice if we could pull gravity into the theory of everything, but Einstein isn't the only guy who hasn't been able to manage it
>
>> Without a mechanism its all philosophy.
>
>But what we are talking about is philosophy anyway. Your demand for a "mechanism" is just part of the philosophy that sort of
>works for you.

That is true, goes back to my family history perhaps, one uncle watch maker jeweler.

>> >> Apart from the meta-physics I find the Internet of great value
>> >> ~~of course all the wisdum you guys^H^H^H^H persons transfer to me~~
>> >> but also a lot from sources like wikipedia, and google searches.
>> >>
>> >> But of course some basics are required, reading, math, basic physics,
>> >> to tell truth from fiction, one needs hands on practice too.
>> >> Some teachers I had would just make me turn away from the subject and some were very inspiring.
>> >> I had great books on electronics / radio / TV that changed the course of my life.
>> >> and I do not see how internet cannot provide that.
>> >> In the end it is the individual's brain structure, environment he grows up in,
>> >> One of the many will move further and maybe break into new science.
>> >
>> >More likely they will extend the same old scientific method to new areas. Quantum mechanics made spectroscopy a whole lot
>> >more
>> >useful.
>>
>> And the kwantuum computah is just around the corner.
>
>Not quite the same thing.

Many of those papers have as last line (or there about) "This -with more funding- will bring the Quantum Computer much closer"
As somebody here mentioned: 'do the math it works' and 'cats that are both alive and dead' and already there it went wrong.
The whole Copenhagen fiasco (or what was it called?).

>> >> I am glad with the source of knowledge the internet provides, google is your answer to many questions
>> >> faster than sleeping through a frustrated teacher's parrot hour who does not answer anything.
>> >
>> >Good teachers can organise the information in a way that makes it easier to understand, Bad teachers tend to leave you
>> >confused.
>
><snip>
>
>> But before the internet you would have to go to a library and if you were LUCKY find some references.
>> Now it took 1 minute to find it and half an hour or so to read and an other hour perhaps to digest it.
>
>But, like the library, a lot of what you do find is useless.
>
>> It is the same for 'tronics, so many things I found online.
>
>But never the ones you actually need.

In my case it usually does.
Many people trying, and it is a 2 way traffic at that, you feed back what you found.