As I said before, I am 78 and now over the hump. My riding speed is now so slow that I prefer to ride alone despite the fact that it is more dangerous to do so. But experience teaches me the proper techniques and methods of riding in a safer manner than. A good average speed for a climbing ride is now 10-11 mph though if Redwood Road were to open again I would think that would rapidly improve since the climbs and the steepness of them are properly spaced to give you performance workouts that otherwise you need a special training regime for.

Flat rides are now averaging a little over 11 mph since there are no fast descents and you have to continuously pedal.

I am continuously irked by people riding on the roads with black kit. Team Sky started that and in because the in thing rather than bright noticeable colors. How many cyclist deaths do you suppose could be attributed to drivers already somewhat distracted by radios and cell phones and navigation aids simply not noticing a dark kit on the road until it is too late?

My one accident with a car taught me that I should not try to be nice to people driving distracted and should immediately get a lawyer. The only thing that works is the fear of losing their license which they will do if they cannot buy insurance.

My route today goes over a dangerous route and is often jammed with traffic and with people in a hurry often trying to pass in the bike lane. Being aware of those people is helpful and my rear view mirror is part of that. I was unaware of the rear approach radar that Lou spoke of and I will have to look into it. But I suspect that it will notify of cars approaching normally which doesn't make it very useful.

I have been watching the sorts of people that continue riding into the ages of me and the people I often ride with (70-90) and none of them were racers unless you can say that I was a serious racer which I wouldn't.

So maybe a focus on speed is not going to do you well in the long run.

On Thu, 25 May 2023 07:42:39 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>As I said before, I am 78 and now over the hump. My riding speed is now so slow that I prefer to ride alone despite the fact that it is more dangerous to do so. But experience teaches me the proper techniques and methods of riding in a safer manner than. A good average speed for a climbing ride is now 10-11 mph though if Redwood Road were to open again I would think that would rapidly improve since the climbs and the steepness of them are properly spaced to give you performance workouts that otherwise you need a special training regime for.
>
>Flat rides are now averaging a little over 11 mph since there are no fast descents and you have to continuously pedal.
>
>I am continuously irked by people riding on the roads with black kit. Team Sky started that and in because the in thing rather than bright noticeable colors. How many cyclist deaths do you suppose could be attributed to drivers already somewhat distracted by radios and cell phones and navigation aids simply not noticing a dark kit on the road until it is too late?
>
>My one accident with a car taught me that I should not try to be nice to people driving distracted and should immediately get a lawyer. The only thing that works is the fear of losing their license which they will do if they cannot buy insurance.
>
>My route today goes over a dangerous route and is often jammed with traffic and with people in a hurry often trying to pass in the bike lane. Being aware of those people is helpful and my rear view mirror is part of that. I was unaware of the rear approach radar that Lou spoke of and I will have to look into it. But I suspect that it will notify of cars approaching normally which doesn't make it very useful.
>
>I have been watching the sorts of people that continue riding into the ages of me and the people I often ride with (70-90) and none of them were racers unless you can say that I was a serious racer which I wouldn't.
>
>So maybe a focus on speed is not going to do you well in the long run.

I'm 78 years old, too, and I gave up pushing myself for speed a couple
of years ago. Nowdays, I usually ride 40 miles and I'm averaging
btween 12 and 13 MPH on the mostly flat trails I ride.

76 here, and still trying to ride, but I have lost a lot of stamina, so I can't do those long rides anymore, and wind, so I can't climb the really steep hills anymore, either. I never was a racer, only a tourist.

On 5/25/2023 10:42 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> I am continuously irked by people riding on the roads with black kit.

Let them have their choice.

I'm irked by people who claim riding a bike is dangerous unless done in
garishly colored faux team kit - AKA "full mating plumage."

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thu, 25 May 2023 09:22:31 -0700 (PDT), William Crowell
<retroguybilly@gmail.com> wrote:

>76 here, and still trying to ride, but I have lost a lot of stamina, so I can't do those long rides anymore, and wind, so I can't climb the really steep hills anymore, either. I never was a racer, only a tourist.

Just wait... it gets worse (:-(
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 12:16:34 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 25 May 2023 09:22:31 -0700 (PDT), William Crowell
> <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >76 here, and still trying to ride, but I have lost a lot of stamina, so I can't do those long rides anymore, and wind, so I can't climb the really steep hills anymore, either. I never was a racer, only a tourist.
> Just wait... it gets worse (:-(
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.
I am 61 and about 8 years ago I could go out and pretty much nail 18mph on most rides of 25-50 miles without too much thought. If I pushed I could average 19. I think my solo century time was around 19mph. These days 18mph is a quick pace and I now seem to run 16.5 mph to 17.5. If I go above 18 it is because I felt good and was able to push the pace. I ride a lot of miles so some of it is just not having fresh legs and energy but I cannot do what I did that is for sure.
Deacon mark

On 2023-05-25, William Crowell <retroguybilly@gmail.com> wrote:
> 76 here, and still trying to ride, but I have lost a lot of stamina, so I can't do those long rides anymore, and wind, so I can't climb the really steep hills anymore, either. I never was a racer, only a tourist.

And I'm in my mid 60's.
Hmm.....I'm seeing a subtle pattern here in Usenet usage!
I hope that it catches on again w/ the kids.

How knows, maybe it'll be so popular that we'll have moderated groups
again...I wonder if any of those are left....

pH in Aptos

On 5/25/2023 11:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 5/25/2023 10:42 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> I am continuously irked by people riding on the roads with
>> black kit.
>
> Let them have their choice.
>
> I'm irked by people who claim riding a bike is dangerous
> unless done in garishly colored faux team kit - AKA "full
> mating plumage."
>

Maybe you could spend a nice Sunday afternoon with Mr Kunich
commenting on other people's cycle clothing together. Or (as
a popular bar in my old neighborhood did for girls walking
by the window), hold up ratings cards as they ride past.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 5/25/2023 1:06 PM, pH wrote:
> On 2023-05-25, William Crowell <retroguybilly@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 76 here, and still trying to ride, but I have lost a lot of stamina, so I can't do those long rides anymore, and wind, so I can't climb the really steep hills anymore, either. I never was a racer, only a tourist.
>
> And I'm in my mid 60's.
> Hmm.....I'm seeing a subtle pattern here in Usenet usage!
> I hope that it catches on again w/ the kids.
>
> How knows, maybe it'll be so popular that we'll have moderated groups
> again...I wonder if any of those are left....
>
> pH in Aptos
>

If anyone considers our little usenet chat thing uncivil or
sharp or snarky, ask to see what young people are reading
all day long. Social media is an absolute toilet if not a
cesspool. I do not subscribe but daughter sends screenshots
of things found on grandsons' telephones (yes she monitors
them).

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 11:08:07 AM UTC-7, pH wrote:
> On 2023-05-25, William Crowell <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 76 here, and still trying to ride, but I have lost a lot of stamina, so I can't do those long rides anymore, and wind, so I can't climb the really steep hills anymore, either. I never was a racer, only a tourist.
> And I'm in my mid 60's.
> Hmm.....I'm seeing a subtle pattern here in Usenet usage!
> I hope that it catches on again w/ the kids.
>
> How knows, maybe it'll be so popular that we'll have moderated groups
> again...I wonder if any of those are left....
>
> pH in Aptos
pH, I hate moderated groups and refuse to participate in any. I have better things to do than to have a bunch of freakin', easily-triggered airheads tell me what I can say.

On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 9:22:33 AM UTC-7, William Crowell wrote:
> 76 here, and still trying to ride, but I have lost a lot of stamina, so I can't do those long rides anymore, and wind, so I can't climb the really steep hills anymore, either. I never was a racer, only a tourist.

I haven't felt in shape this year since early February before the rains started and I could do the 37 mile 3300 feet of climbing ride. I was just getting back into somewhat shape when the rains came and drowned that ride completely out.

Since I haven't been able to get in shape, the metric centuries I normally do have been out of the question. Now I don't know if I could even get back there again. I do note that a lot of people I rode with have had worse trouble than I. They are now down to only the Saturday ride.

On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 10:28:00 AM UTC-7, Mark Cleary wrote:
> On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 12:16:34 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> > On Thu, 25 May 2023 09:22:31 -0700 (PDT), William Crowell
> > <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >76 here, and still trying to ride, but I have lost a lot of stamina, so I can't do those long rides anymore, and wind, so I can't climb the really steep hills anymore, either. I never was a racer, only a tourist.
> > Just wait... it gets worse (:-(
> > --
> > Cheers,
> >
> > John B.
> I am 61 and about 8 years ago I could go out and pretty much nail 18mph on most rides of 25-50 miles without too much thought. If I pushed I could average 19. I think my solo century time was around 19mph. These days 18mph is a quick pace and I now seem to run 16.5 mph to 17.5. If I go above 18 it is because I felt good and was able to push the pace. I ride a lot of miles so some of it is just not having fresh legs and energy but I cannot do what I did that is for sure.
> Deacon mark
Punk kid!

On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 2:03:23 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/25/2023 11:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 5/25/2023 10:42 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>
> >> I am continuously irked by people riding on the roads with
> >> black kit.
> >
> > Let them have their choice.
> >
> > I'm irked by people who claim riding a bike is dangerous
> > unless done in garishly colored faux team kit - AKA "full
> > mating plumage."
> >
> Maybe you could spend a nice Sunday afternoon with Mr Kunich
> commenting on other people's cycle clothing together. Or (as
> a popular bar in my old neighborhood did for girls walking
> by the window), hold up ratings cards as they ride past.
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I am concerned about their safety and not what they look like. People might not miss you if they can't see you. I wore my bright orange togs today and people gave me more than enough clearance even in the dangerous places.

On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 5:19:46 p.m. UTC-5, William Crowell wrote:
> On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 11:08:07 AM UTC-7, pH wrote:
> > On 2023-05-25, William Crowell <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > 76 here, and still trying to ride, but I have lost a lot of stamina, so I can't do those long rides anymore, and wind, so I can't climb the really steep hills anymore, either. I never was a racer, only a tourist.
> > And I'm in my mid 60's.
> > Hmm.....I'm seeing a subtle pattern here in Usenet usage!
> > I hope that it catches on again w/ the kids.
> >
> > How knows, maybe it'll be so popular that we'll have moderated groups
> > again...I wonder if any of those are left....
> >
> > pH in Aptos
> pH, I hate moderated groups and refuse to participate in any. I have better things to do than to have a bunch of freakin', easily-triggered airheads tell me what I can say.

But it's so nice to open a thread (that hasn't been hijacked) and see On Topic posts related to the Subject Title of the thread.

Cheers

On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 3:19:46 PM UTC-7, William Crowell wrote:
> On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 11:08:07 AM UTC-7, pH wrote:
> > On 2023-05-25, William Crowell <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > 76 here, and still trying to ride, but I have lost a lot of stamina, so I can't do those long rides anymore, and wind, so I can't climb the really steep hills anymore, either. I never was a racer, only a tourist.
> > And I'm in my mid 60's.
> > Hmm.....I'm seeing a subtle pattern here in Usenet usage!
> > I hope that it catches on again w/ the kids.
> >
> > How knows, maybe it'll be so popular that we'll have moderated groups
> > again...I wonder if any of those are left....
> >
> > pH in Aptos
> pH, I hate moderated groups and refuse to participate in any. I have better things to do than to have a bunch of freakin', easily-triggered airheads tell me what I can say.

+1

I am banned from the Bicycling Magazine forum. But you aren't missing much. The questions and answers are all from airheads like Frank and John. Jeff and Flunky aren't exactly airheads but they want to be.

On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 3:25:50 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 5:19:46 p.m. UTC-5, William Crowell wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 11:08:07 AM UTC-7, pH wrote:
> > > On 2023-05-25, William Crowell <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > 76 here, and still trying to ride, but I have lost a lot of stamina, so I can't do those long rides anymore, and wind, so I can't climb the really steep hills anymore, either. I never was a racer, only a tourist.
> > > And I'm in my mid 60's.
> > > Hmm.....I'm seeing a subtle pattern here in Usenet usage!
> > > I hope that it catches on again w/ the kids.
> > >
> > > How knows, maybe it'll be so popular that we'll have moderated groups
> > > again...I wonder if any of those are left....
> > >
> > > pH in Aptos
> > pH, I hate moderated groups and refuse to participate in any. I have better things to do than to have a bunch of freakin', easily-triggered airheads tell me what I can say.
> But it's so nice to open a thread (that hasn't been hijacked) and see On Topic posts related to the Subject Title of the thread.
>
> Cheers

But invariably they are like this group used to be when Jobst was still alive - little more than personality groups with a head personality and little else. That's OK if the forum leader is a person interested in only talking about the subject, but many of them are not and it all becomes about them. There are a LOT of moderated bicycling forums. Just do a search and see if you like them better than here. It gets really tiresome explaining to people over and over why American bottom brackets are reverse threaded.

On Thu, 25 May 2023 16:01:35 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 5/25/2023 11:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 5/25/2023 10:42 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> I am continuously irked by people riding on the roads with
>>> black kit.
>>
>> Let them have their choice.
>>
>> I'm irked by people who claim riding a bike is dangerous
>> unless done in garishly colored faux team kit - AKA "full
>> mating plumage."
>>
>
>Maybe you could spend a nice Sunday afternoon with Mr Kunich
>commenting on other people's cycle clothing together. Or (as
>a popular bar in my old neighborhood did for girls walking
>by the window), hold up ratings cards as they ride past.

Chesty's and/or The Pub...

On Thu, 25 May 2023 15:19:44 -0700 (PDT), William Crowell
<retroguybilly@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 11:08:07?AM UTC-7, pH wrote:
>> On 2023-05-25, William Crowell <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > 76 here, and still trying to ride, but I have lost a lot of stamina, so I can't do those long rides anymore, and wind, so I can't climb the really steep hills anymore, either. I never was a racer, only a tourist.
>> And I'm in my mid 60's.
>> Hmm.....I'm seeing a subtle pattern here in Usenet usage!
>> I hope that it catches on again w/ the kids.
>>
>> How knows, maybe it'll be so popular that we'll have moderated groups
>> again...I wonder if any of those are left....
>>
>> pH in Aptos
>pH, I hate moderated groups and refuse to participate in any. I have better things to do than to have a bunch of freakin', easily-triggered airheads tell me what I can say.

+1

On 5/25/2023 5:19 PM, William Crowell wrote:
> On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 11:08:07 AM UTC-7, pH wrote:
>> On 2023-05-25, William Crowell <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 76 here, and still trying to ride, but I have lost a lot of stamina, so I can't do those long rides anymore, and wind, so I can't climb the really steep hills anymore, either. I never was a racer, only a tourist.
>> And I'm in my mid 60's.
>> Hmm.....I'm seeing a subtle pattern here in Usenet usage!
>> I hope that it catches on again w/ the kids.
>>
>> How knows, maybe it'll be so popular that we'll have moderated groups
>> again...I wonder if any of those are left....
>>
>> pH in Aptos
> pH, I hate moderated groups and refuse to participate in any. I have better things to do than to have a bunch of freakin', easily-triggered airheads tell me what I can say.
>

I'm with you.
No invective or expletive is as offensive as censorship.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 25 May 2023 15:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 2:03:23?PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 5/25/2023 11:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > On 5/25/2023 10:42 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I am continuously irked by people riding on the roads with
>> >> black kit.
>> >
>> > Let them have their choice.
>> >
>> > I'm irked by people who claim riding a bike is dangerous
>> > unless done in garishly colored faux team kit - AKA "full
>> > mating plumage."
>> >
>> Maybe you could spend a nice Sunday afternoon with Mr Kunich
>> commenting on other people's cycle clothing together. Or (as
>> a popular bar in my old neighborhood did for girls walking
>> by the window), hold up ratings cards as they ride past.
>>
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
>I am concerned about their safety and not what they look like. People might not miss you if they can't see you. I wore my bright orange togs today and people gave me more than enough clearance even in the dangerous places.

I almost always wear black because that's what I want to wear.

On Thu, 25 May 2023 15:29:39 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 3:19:46?PM UTC-7, William Crowell wrote:
>> On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 11:08:07?AM UTC-7, pH wrote:
>> > On 2023-05-25, William Crowell <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > 76 here, and still trying to ride, but I have lost a lot of stamina, so I can't do those long rides anymore, and wind, so I can't climb the really steep hills anymore, either. I never was a racer, only a tourist.
>> > And I'm in my mid 60's.
>> > Hmm.....I'm seeing a subtle pattern here in Usenet usage!
>> > I hope that it catches on again w/ the kids.
>> >
>> > How knows, maybe it'll be so popular that we'll have moderated groups
>> > again...I wonder if any of those are left....
>> >
>> > pH in Aptos
>> pH, I hate moderated groups and refuse to participate in any. I have better things to do than to have a bunch of freakin', easily-triggered airheads tell me what I can say.
>
>+1
>
>I am banned from the Bicycling Magazine forum. But you aren't missing much. The questions and answers are all from airheads like Frank and John. Jeff and Flunky aren't exactly airheads but they want to be.

And this from a bloke that one of the pundits of cycling described as:

"rude and obnoxious, always carping while offering no
useful information."
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 5/25/2023 5:58 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Thu, 25 May 2023 16:01:35 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 5/25/2023 11:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 5/25/2023 10:42 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am continuously irked by people riding on the roads with
>>>> black kit.
>>>
>>> Let them have their choice.
>>>
>>> I'm irked by people who claim riding a bike is dangerous
>>> unless done in garishly colored faux team kit - AKA "full
>>> mating plumage."
>>>
>>
>> Maybe you could spend a nice Sunday afternoon with Mr Kunich
>> commenting on other people's cycle clothing together. Or (as
>> a popular bar in my old neighborhood did for girls walking
>> by the window), hold up ratings cards as they ride past.
>
>
> Chesty's and/or The Pub...
>

Schwegler's The Pub.

The Inter Webs didn't archive an image of the iconic girl
rating cards.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 5/25/2023 6:03 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Thu, 25 May 2023 15:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 2:03:23?PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 5/25/2023 11:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 5/25/2023 10:42 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I am continuously irked by people riding on the roads with
>>>>> black kit.
>>>>
>>>> Let them have their choice.
>>>>
>>>> I'm irked by people who claim riding a bike is dangerous
>>>> unless done in garishly colored faux team kit - AKA "full
>>>> mating plumage."
>>>>
>>> Maybe you could spend a nice Sunday afternoon with Mr Kunich
>>> commenting on other people's cycle clothing together. Or (as
>>> a popular bar in my old neighborhood did for girls walking
>>> by the window), hold up ratings cards as they ride past.
>>>

>> I am concerned about their safety and not what they look like. People might not miss you if they can't see you. I wore my bright orange togs today and people gave me more than enough clearance even in the dangerous places.
>
> I almost always wear black because that's what I want to wear.
>

That's as good a reason as any.
I also wear mostly black.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 5/25/2023 8:24 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> I also wear mostly black.

The last three times we went to Europe, my only jacket was black. Much
of my riding was in black cycling tights as well. I never noticed a
visibility problem.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thu, 25 May 2023 19:21:47 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 5/25/2023 5:58 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 May 2023 16:01:35 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/25/2023 11:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 5/25/2023 10:42 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I am continuously irked by people riding on the roads with
>>>>> black kit.
>>>>
>>>> Let them have their choice.
>>>>
>>>> I'm irked by people who claim riding a bike is dangerous
>>>> unless done in garishly colored faux team kit - AKA "full
>>>> mating plumage."
>>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe you could spend a nice Sunday afternoon with Mr Kunich
>>> commenting on other people's cycle clothing together. Or (as
>>> a popular bar in my old neighborhood did for girls walking
>>> by the window), hold up ratings cards as they ride past.
>>
>>
>> Chesty's and/or The Pub...
>>
>
>Schwegler's The Pub.
>
>The Inter Webs didn't archive an image of the iconic girl
>rating cards.

Back in the early sixties, I visited a few of the State Street's 18-YO
bars. I don't remember the girl rating cards, but I remember sitting
in the window watching girls walk by. The cards must have come later.