On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 10:33:03 -0800 (PST), Dean Hoffman
<deanh6929@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, December 11, 2021 at 11:07:39 AM UTC-6, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, December 11, 2021 at 11:01:31 AM UTC-5, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
>> > Rick C wrote:
>> > > 50 dead and it may rise to 100.
>> > How many are below 75.
>> > > Yet KY is seeing 60 deaths every day from Covid
>> > How many are below 75.
>> What are you talking about???
>>
>> --
>>
>> Rick C.
>>
>> + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
>> + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
>
> Add Dixie Alley to the long list of things I haven't heard of.
><https://strangesounds.org/2019/09/us-tornado-map-these-twister-risk-maps-show-where-you-can-get-killed-by-a-tornado.html>

Wow, Fred will love that web site. Hardcore disaster porn.

--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

On 15/12/21 17:04, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2021 14:14:06 +0000, Tom Gardner
> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 15/12/21 13:55, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>> On 15/12/21 11:11, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>> On 15-Dec-21 9:04 pm, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>>> On 15/12/21 07:42, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12-Dec-21 1:01 am, Rick C wrote:
>>>>>>>> 50 dead and it may rise to 100.  Yet KY is seeing 60 deaths every day from
>>>>>>>> Covid and the count is on the rise again.  KY only has a 53% fully
>>>>>>>> vaccinated rate.  I suppose they don't fear a deadly disease.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So it stands to reason they don't fear tornadoes much either.  I wonder if
>>>>>>>> they have anything in their building code that requires protection from
>>>>>>>> tornadoes?  Most likely too many people demand their freedom from
>>>>>>>> intrusive building codes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I saw that some people were praying to God outside their destroyed church.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Were they praying for a miracle or because there had been a miracle?
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, I suppose they could have been thanking God for finally showing very
>>>>> clearly that he doesn't give a stuff about them, so that in future they can
>>>>> stop with the whole praying thing, and use their time for something they
>>>>> actually like doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> But probably not.
>>>>
>>>> It is easy to imagine other possibilities, e.g. they were
>>>> thanking God for destroying the evil heretics from another
>>>> denomination. Ditto Godless people in general.
>>>
>>> Gee, you atheist folks are so compassionate.  How about, they love God and love
>>> their church, and are praying for His aid and comfort in their distress?
>>
>> Er - no. I think such any behaviour is reprehensible.
>>
>> I'm just reporting what some religious people actually do
>> to other groups, in the name of their religion. For examples,
>> see history books and newspapers.
>>
>> But an omnipotent God could have prevented them being in
>> distress in the first place.
>
> Nasty people sneer at everything that's available.

Nasty people prefer ad-hominem attacks that ignore the points
other people are making.

In article <mi7krg1efotoadl5tcejvr40kkgcdvtr3o@4ax.com>,
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com says...
>
> On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 10:33:03 -0800 (PST), Dean Hoffman
> <deanh6929@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I was in one of those red dots, in Louisiana. It lifted the roof off
> our house about an inch and dropped it back down. I had to go into the
> attic and pound down about a hundred nail heads sticking up.

Using screws would be far too expensive! And would not give stress-
relieving give, I suppose...

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 9:55:49 AM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> Tom Gardner wrote:
> > On 15/12/21 11:11, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >> On 15-Dec-21 9:04 pm, Tom Gardner wrote:
> >>> On 15/12/21 07:42, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >>>> On 12-Dec-21 1:01 am, Rick C wrote:
> >>>>> 50 dead and it may rise to 100. Yet KY is seeing 60 deaths every
> >>>>> day from Covid and the count is on the rise again. KY only has a
> >>>>> 53% fully vaccinated rate. I suppose they don't fear a deadly
> >>>>> disease.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So it stands to reason they don't fear tornadoes much either. I
> >>>>> wonder if they have anything in their building code that requires
> >>>>> protection from tornadoes? Most likely too many people demand
> >>>>> their freedom from intrusive building codes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I saw that some people were praying to God outside their destroyed
> >>>> church.
> >>>
> >>> Were they praying for a miracle or because there had been a miracle?
> >>
> >> Well, I suppose they could have been thanking God for finally showing
> >> very clearly that he doesn't give a stuff about them, so that in
> >> future they can stop with the whole praying thing, and use their time
> >> for something they actually like doing.
> >>
> >> But probably not.
> >
> > It is easy to imagine other possibilities, e.g. they were
> > thanking God for destroying the evil heretics from another
> > denomination. Ditto Godless people in general.
> Gee, you atheist folks are so compassionate. How about, they love God
> and love their church, and are praying for His aid and comfort in their
> distress?

Hmmm... Seems like you don't understand that it was God who created that distress, no? Or was it the devil? Or maybe Flip Wilson?

Just like when watching a lot of sci-fi movies, to believe in God requires a very large dose of "willing suspension of disbelief". That is to say, you must turn off scientific thought. The two are irrevocably incompatible.

Combine that with the total lack of unequivocal evidence of the existence of God and it is much easier to suspend belief in god.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 10:14:12 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 15/12/21 13:55, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> > Tom Gardner wrote:
> >> On 15/12/21 11:11, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >>> On 15-Dec-21 9:04 pm, Tom Gardner wrote:
> >>>> On 15/12/21 07:42, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >>>>> On 12-Dec-21 1:01 am, Rick C wrote:
> >>>>>> 50 dead and it may rise to 100. Yet KY is seeing 60 deaths every day from
> >>>>>> Covid and the count is on the rise again. KY only has a 53% fully
> >>>>>> vaccinated rate. I suppose they don't fear a deadly disease.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So it stands to reason they don't fear tornadoes much either. I wonder if
> >>>>>> they have anything in their building code that requires protection from
> >>>>>> tornadoes? Most likely too many people demand their freedom from
> >>>>>> intrusive building codes.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I saw that some people were praying to God outside their destroyed church.
> >>>>
> >>>> Were they praying for a miracle or because there had been a miracle?
> >>>
> >>> Well, I suppose they could have been thanking God for finally showing very
> >>> clearly that he doesn't give a stuff about them, so that in future they can
> >>> stop with the whole praying thing, and use their time for something they
> >>> actually like doing.
> >>>
> >>> But probably not.
> >>
> >> It is easy to imagine other possibilities, e.g. they were
> >> thanking God for destroying the evil heretics from another
> >> denomination. Ditto Godless people in general.
> >
> > Gee, you atheist folks are so compassionate. How about, they love God and love
> > their church, and are praying for His aid and comfort in their distress?
> Er - no. I think such any behaviour is reprehensible.
>
> I'm just reporting what some religious people actually do
> to other groups, in the name of their religion. For examples,
> see history books and newspapers.
>
> But an omnipotent God could have prevented them being in
> distress in the first place.

Well, sure! But He has a master plan and your suffering is of no consequence. That is the point of Randy Newman's song.

"Man means nothing he means less to me
Than the lowliest cactus flower
Or the humblest yucca tree"

"Lord, if you won't take care of us
Won't you please please let us be?"

"I burn down your cities--how blind you must be
I take from you your children and you say how blessed are we
You must all be crazy to put your faith in me
That's why i love mankind"

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 1:04:43 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2021 14:14:06 +0000, Tom Gardner
> <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >On 15/12/21 13:55, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> >> Tom Gardner wrote:
> >>> On 15/12/21 11:11, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >>>> On 15-Dec-21 9:04 pm, Tom Gardner wrote:
> >>>>> On 15/12/21 07:42, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >>>>>> On 12-Dec-21 1:01 am, Rick C wrote:
> >>>>>>> 50 dead and it may rise to 100. Yet KY is seeing 60 deaths every day from
> >>>>>>> Covid and the count is on the rise again. KY only has a 53% fully
> >>>>>>> vaccinated rate. I suppose they don't fear a deadly disease.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So it stands to reason they don't fear tornadoes much either. I wonder if
> >>>>>>> they have anything in their building code that requires protection from
> >>>>>>> tornadoes? Most likely too many people demand their freedom from
> >>>>>>> intrusive building codes.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I saw that some people were praying to God outside their destroyed church.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Were they praying for a miracle or because there had been a miracle?
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, I suppose they could have been thanking God for finally showing very
> >>>> clearly that he doesn't give a stuff about them, so that in future they can
> >>>> stop with the whole praying thing, and use their time for something they
> >>>> actually like doing.
> >>>>
> >>>> But probably not.
> >>>
> >>> It is easy to imagine other possibilities, e.g. they were
> >>> thanking God for destroying the evil heretics from another
> >>> denomination. Ditto Godless people in general.
> >>
> >> Gee, you atheist folks are so compassionate. How about, they love God and love
> >> their church, and are praying for His aid and comfort in their distress?
> >
> >Er - no. I think such any behaviour is reprehensible.
> >
> >I'm just reporting what some religious people actually do
> >to other groups, in the name of their religion. For examples,
> >see history books and newspapers.
> >
> >But an omnipotent God could have prevented them being in
> >distress in the first place.
> Nasty people sneer at everything that's available.

You mean like life saving vaccines during a pandemic? Yes, they do.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 11:02:59 AM UTC-6, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 10:33:03 -0800 (PST), Dean Hoffman
> <dean...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, December 11, 2021 at 11:07:39 AM UTC-6, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Saturday, December 11, 2021 at 11:01:31 AM UTC-5, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> >> > Rick C wrote:
> >> > > 50 dead and it may rise to 100.
> >> > How many are below 75.
> >> > > Yet KY is seeing 60 deaths every day from Covid
> >> > How many are below 75.
> >> What are you talking about???
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Rick C.
> >>
> >> + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
> >> + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
> >
> > Add Dixie Alley to the long list of things I haven't heard of.
> ><https://strangesounds.org/2019/09/us-tornado-map-these-twister-risk-maps-show-where-you-can-get-killed-by-a-tornado.html>
> I was in one of those red dots, in Louisiana. It lifted the roof off
> our house about an inch and dropped it back down. I had to go into the
> attic and pound down about a hundred nail heads sticking up.
>
> It wasn't bad otherwise, some fence damage and some shingles ripped
> off the roof. Down there, the real killers are hurricanes.
>
> The US gets a lot of dramatic weather. A couple of feet of snow in the
> sierras yesterday.
>
>
>
> --
>
> I yam what I yam - Popeye

The weather guys are talking about a couple tornadoes in south central Nebraska right now. It's really unusual
for us this time of year.

>> >>> Were they praying for a miracle or because there had been a miracle?
>> >>
>> >> Well, I suppose they could have been thanking God for finally showing
>> >> very clearly that he doesn't give a stuff about them, so that in
>> >> future they can stop with the whole praying thing, and use their time
>> >> for something they actually like doing.
>> >>
>> >> But probably not.
>> >
>> > It is easy to imagine other possibilities, e.g. they were
>> > thanking God for destroying the evil heretics from another
>> > denomination. Ditto Godless people in general.
>> Gee, you atheist folks are so compassionate. How about, they love God
>> and love their church, and are praying for His aid and comfort in their
>> distress?
>
> Hmmm... Seems like you don't understand that it was God who created
> that distress, no? Or was it the devil? Or maybe Flip Wilson?
>
> Just like when watching a lot of sci-fi movies, to believe in God
> requires a very large dose of "willing suspension of disbelief". That
> is to say, you must turn off scientific thought. The two are
> irrevocably incompatible.
>
> Combine that with the total lack of unequivocal evidence of the
> existence of God and it is much easier to suspend belief in god.

And add the problem of if you want to believe then which god and
protocol do you choose? There are so many, and advocates for each are
equally convinced they are the only ones that are right! They can't all
be right, now can they?

Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 15/12/21 13:55, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> Tom Gardner wrote:
>>> On 15/12/21 11:11, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 15-Dec-21 9:04 pm, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>> On 15/12/21 07:42, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>> On 12-Dec-21 1:01 am, Rick C wrote:
>>>>>>> 50 dead and it may rise to 100.  Yet KY is seeing 60 deaths every
>>>>>>> day from Covid and the count is on the rise again.  KY only has a
>>>>>>> 53% fully vaccinated rate.  I suppose they don't fear a deadly
>>>>>>> disease.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So it stands to reason they don't fear tornadoes much either.  I
>>>>>>> wonder if they have anything in their building code that requires
>>>>>>> protection from tornadoes?  Most likely too many people demand
>>>>>>> their freedom from intrusive building codes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I saw that some people were praying to God outside their destroyed
>>>>>> church.
>>>>>
>>>>> Were they praying for a miracle or because there had been a miracle?
>>>>
>>>> Well, I suppose they could have been thanking God for finally
>>>> showing very clearly that he doesn't give a stuff about them, so
>>>> that in future they can stop with the whole praying thing, and use
>>>> their time for something they actually like doing.
>>>>
>>>> But probably not.
>>>
>>> It is easy to imagine other possibilities, e.g. they were
>>> thanking God for destroying the evil heretics from another
>>> denomination. Ditto Godless people in general.
>>
>> Gee, you atheist folks are so compassionate.  How about, they love God
>> and love their church, and are praying for His aid and comfort in
>> their distress?
>
> Er - no. I think such any behaviour is reprehensible.
>
> I'm just reporting what some religious people actually do
> to other groups, in the name of their religion. For examples,
> see history books and newspapers.

Are you proposing to take responsibility for all the evil done by
atheists? Such as the Holocaust, Holodomor, Great Leap Forward, Uighur
genocide....

Because, being such a rational guy, you'd obviously see the logic of
your position.

>
> But an omnipotent God could have prevented them being in
> distress in the first place.

And a merciful God is very patient even with His enemies.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 4:50:55 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> Tom Gardner wrote:
> > On 15/12/21 13:55, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> >> Tom Gardner wrote:
> >>> On 15/12/21 11:11, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >>>> On 15-Dec-21 9:04 pm, Tom Gardner wrote:
> >>>>> On 15/12/21 07:42, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >>>>>> On 12-Dec-21 1:01 am, Rick C wrote:
> >>>>>>> 50 dead and it may rise to 100. Yet KY is seeing 60 deaths every
> >>>>>>> day from Covid and the count is on the rise again. KY only has a
> >>>>>>> 53% fully vaccinated rate. I suppose they don't fear a deadly
> >>>>>>> disease.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So it stands to reason they don't fear tornadoes much either. I
> >>>>>>> wonder if they have anything in their building code that requires
> >>>>>>> protection from tornadoes? Most likely too many people demand
> >>>>>>> their freedom from intrusive building codes.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I saw that some people were praying to God outside their destroyed
> >>>>>> church.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Were they praying for a miracle or because there had been a miracle?
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, I suppose they could have been thanking God for finally
> >>>> showing very clearly that he doesn't give a stuff about them, so
> >>>> that in future they can stop with the whole praying thing, and use
> >>>> their time for something they actually like doing.
> >>>>
> >>>> But probably not.
> >>>
> >>> It is easy to imagine other possibilities, e.g. they were
> >>> thanking God for destroying the evil heretics from another
> >>> denomination. Ditto Godless people in general.
> >>
> >> Gee, you atheist folks are so compassionate. How about, they love God
> >> and love their church, and are praying for His aid and comfort in
> >> their distress?
> >
> > Er - no. I think such any behaviour is reprehensible.
> >
> > I'm just reporting what some religious people actually do
> > to other groups, in the name of their religion. For examples,
> > see history books and newspapers.
> Are you proposing to take responsibility for all the evil done by
> atheists? Such as the Holocaust, Holodomor, Great Leap Forward, Uighur
> genocide....
>
> Because, being such a rational guy, you'd obviously see the logic of
> your position.

That's an interesting statement coming from someone who just compared atheists who have no belief in god to religious fanatics acting in the name of their god. Do you really not understand your fallacy? I don't think I've ever heard of an atheist committing any acts in the name of the god he doesn't believe in. I guess to you all atheists have some common bond of not believing in the same thing, or maybe they don't believe in different gods? I'll let you sort that out since it is your irrational generalization at issue.

> > But an omnipotent God could have prevented them being in
> > distress in the first place.
> And a merciful God is very patient even with His enemies.

I like the way you turn a comment on the lack of God's protection for his believers into a statement about his enemies.

Why would a God have any enemies? If God is all powerful no one can cause him harm and He would have no reason to let anyone cause His believers harm.. So God's "enemies" would be impotent and of no consequence, in essence, not enemies at all really. Just creatures to be pitied.

Now if God were as merciful with his followers as he is with his "enemies".

I always love it when people ascribe a horrendous event to "God's wrath" toward some group when many, many others were harmed as well. God's mercy indeed.

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Wed, 15 Dec 2021 15:50:43 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>Tom Gardner wrote:
>> On 15/12/21 13:55, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>> On 15/12/21 11:11, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>> On 15-Dec-21 9:04 pm, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>>> On 15/12/21 07:42, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12-Dec-21 1:01 am, Rick C wrote:
>>>>>>>> 50 dead and it may rise to 100.  Yet KY is seeing 60 deaths every
>>>>>>>> day from Covid and the count is on the rise again.  KY only has a
>>>>>>>> 53% fully vaccinated rate.  I suppose they don't fear a deadly
>>>>>>>> disease.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So it stands to reason they don't fear tornadoes much either.  I
>>>>>>>> wonder if they have anything in their building code that requires
>>>>>>>> protection from tornadoes?  Most likely too many people demand
>>>>>>>> their freedom from intrusive building codes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I saw that some people were praying to God outside their destroyed
>>>>>>> church.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Were they praying for a miracle or because there had been a miracle?
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, I suppose they could have been thanking God for finally
>>>>> showing very clearly that he doesn't give a stuff about them, so
>>>>> that in future they can stop with the whole praying thing, and use
>>>>> their time for something they actually like doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> But probably not.
>>>>
>>>> It is easy to imagine other possibilities, e.g. they were
>>>> thanking God for destroying the evil heretics from another
>>>> denomination. Ditto Godless people in general.
>>>
>>> Gee, you atheist folks are so compassionate.  How about, they love God
>>> and love their church, and are praying for His aid and comfort in
>>> their distress?
>>
>> Er - no. I think such any behaviour is reprehensible.
>>
>> I'm just reporting what some religious people actually do
>> to other groups, in the name of their religion. For examples,
>> see history books and newspapers.
>
>Are you proposing to take responsibility for all the evil done by
>atheists? Such as the Holocaust, Holodomor, Great Leap Forward, Uighur
>genocide....
>
>Because, being such a rational guy, you'd obviously see the logic of
>your position.
>
>>
>> But an omnipotent God could have prevented them being in
>> distress in the first place.
>
>And a merciful God is very patient even with His enemies.
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs

As a practical matter, Christians are more peaceful, more productive,
and more charitable than nons.

But maybe God might be a little more patient with His friends?

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

On 15/12/2021 21:50, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> Tom Gardner wrote:

>> Er - no. I think such any behaviour is reprehensible.
>>
>> I'm just reporting what some religious people actually do
>> to other groups, in the name of their religion. For examples,
>> see history books and newspapers.
>
> Are you proposing to take responsibility for all the evil done by
> atheists?  Such as the Holocaust, Holodomor, Great Leap Forward, Uighur
> genocide....
>
> Because, being such a rational guy, you'd obviously see the logic of
> your position.
>

Hitler referred to himself as a Christian (for the most part), as did
most Nazis. Regardless, /people/ are responsible for the evil acts they
commit, not religions, gods or lack thereof. Religion is merely a
popular excuse for many acts of evil, and it is a tool used by evil
people to control others. It is entirely clear that neither religion
nor belief in any god or other supernatural idea, nor lack of such
beliefs, gives any guarantees of someone being either a good or a bad
person.

No one is suggesting that religious people, simply by following a
particular religion, are directly responsible for any kind of evil act.
Whatever evil they do themselves, support or condone, is a matter for
the individual.

On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 9:39:23 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2021 15:50:43 -0500, Phil Hobbs
> <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
> >Tom Gardner wrote:
> >> On 15/12/21 13:55, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> >>> Tom Gardner wrote:
> >>>> On 15/12/21 11:11, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >>>>> On 15-Dec-21 9:04 pm, Tom Gardner wrote:
> >>>>>> On 15/12/21 07:42, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 12-Dec-21 1:01 am, Rick C wrote:

<snip>

> >> But an omnipotent God could have prevented them being in
> >> distress in the first place.
> >
> >And a merciful God is very patient even with His enemies.
> >
> As a practical matter, Christians are more peaceful, more productive, and more charitable than nons.

I'm sure Christians somewhere have produced statistics to that effect. I wouldn't like their chances of getting them published in a peer-reviewed journal.

John hasn't told us where he got this information, and I'm not hopeful that he will post a link to whatever evidence he thinks he has got.
<snip>

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On 15/12/21 22:50, David Brown wrote:
> On 15/12/2021 21:50, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> Tom Gardner wrote:
>
>>> Er - no. I think such any behaviour is reprehensible.
>>>
>>> I'm just reporting what some religious people actually do
>>> to other groups, in the name of their religion. For examples,
>>> see history books and newspapers.
>>
>> Are you proposing to take responsibility for all the evil done by
>> atheists?  Such as the Holocaust, Holodomor, Great Leap Forward, Uighur
>> genocide....
>>
>> Because, being such a rational guy, you'd obviously see the logic of
>> your position.

Religious people want to ascribe everything good to
their omnipotent God, and everything bad to something/body
else. That's willful blindness and/or hypocrisy.

> Hitler referred to himself as a Christian (for the most part), as did
> most Nazis. Regardless, /people/ are responsible for the evil acts they
> commit, not religions, gods or lack thereof. Religion is merely a
> popular excuse for many acts of evil, and it is a tool used by evil
> people to control others. It is entirely clear that neither religion
> nor belief in any god or other supernatural idea, nor lack of such
> beliefs, gives any guarantees of someone being either a good or a bad
> person.

Precisely. Mensch is mensch.

> No one is suggesting that religious people, simply by following a
> particular religion, are directly responsible for any kind of evil act.
> Whatever evil they do themselves, support or condone, is a matter for
> the individual.

It becomes less clear when religious authorities condone,
turn a blind eye, or even cover up despicable acts.

On 15/12/21 22:39, John Larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2021 15:50:43 -0500, Phil Hobbs
> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
>> Tom Gardner wrote:
>>> On 15/12/21 13:55, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>> Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>> On 15/12/21 11:11, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>> On 15-Dec-21 9:04 pm, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>>>> On 15/12/21 07:42, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 12-Dec-21 1:01 am, Rick C wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 50 dead and it may rise to 100.  Yet KY is seeing 60 deaths every
>>>>>>>>> day from Covid and the count is on the rise again.  KY only has a
>>>>>>>>> 53% fully vaccinated rate.  I suppose they don't fear a deadly
>>>>>>>>> disease.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So it stands to reason they don't fear tornadoes much either.  I
>>>>>>>>> wonder if they have anything in their building code that requires
>>>>>>>>> protection from tornadoes?  Most likely too many people demand
>>>>>>>>> their freedom from intrusive building codes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I saw that some people were praying to God outside their destroyed
>>>>>>>> church.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Were they praying for a miracle or because there had been a miracle?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, I suppose they could have been thanking God for finally
>>>>>> showing very clearly that he doesn't give a stuff about them, so
>>>>>> that in future they can stop with the whole praying thing, and use
>>>>>> their time for something they actually like doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But probably not.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is easy to imagine other possibilities, e.g. they were
>>>>> thanking God for destroying the evil heretics from another
>>>>> denomination. Ditto Godless people in general.
>>>>
>>>> Gee, you atheist folks are so compassionate.  How about, they love God
>>>> and love their church, and are praying for His aid and comfort in
>>>> their distress?
>>>
>>> Er - no. I think such any behaviour is reprehensible.
>>>
>>> I'm just reporting what some religious people actually do
>>> to other groups, in the name of their religion. For examples,
>>> see history books and newspapers.
>>
>> Are you proposing to take responsibility for all the evil done by
>> atheists? Such as the Holocaust, Holodomor, Great Leap Forward, Uighur
>> genocide....
>>
>> Because, being such a rational guy, you'd obviously see the logic of
>> your position.
>>
>>>
>>> But an omnipotent God could have prevented them being in
>>> distress in the first place.
>>
>> And a merciful God is very patient even with His enemies.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Phil Hobbs
>
> As a practical matter, Christians are more peaceful, more productive,
> and more charitable than nons.

No they aren't - and I've got anecdotes to prove it.

> But maybe God might be a little more patient with His friends?

And a little less nasty towards some people?

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 1:50:07 PM UTC-6, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 9:55:49 AM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> > Tom Gardner wrote:
> > > On 15/12/21 11:11, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > >> On 15-Dec-21 9:04 pm, Tom Gardner wrote:
> > >>> On 15/12/21 07:42, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > >>>> On 12-Dec-21 1:01 am, Rick C wrote:
> > >>>>> 50 dead and it may rise to 100. Yet KY is seeing 60 deaths every
> > >>>>> day from Covid and the count is on the rise again. KY only has a
> > >>>>> 53% fully vaccinated rate. I suppose they don't fear a deadly
> > >>>>> disease.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> So it stands to reason they don't fear tornadoes much either. I
> > >>>>> wonder if they have anything in their building code that requires
> > >>>>> protection from tornadoes? Most likely too many people demand
> > >>>>> their freedom from intrusive building codes.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I saw that some people were praying to God outside their destroyed
> > >>>> church.
> > >>>
> > >>> Were they praying for a miracle or because there had been a miracle?
> > >>
> > >> Well, I suppose they could have been thanking God for finally showing
> > >> very clearly that he doesn't give a stuff about them, so that in
> > >> future they can stop with the whole praying thing, and use their time
> > >> for something they actually like doing.
> > >>
> > >> But probably not.
> > >
> > > It is easy to imagine other possibilities, e.g. they were
> > > thanking God for destroying the evil heretics from another
> > > denomination. Ditto Godless people in general.
> > Gee, you atheist folks are so compassionate. How about, they love God
> > and love their church, and are praying for His aid and comfort in their
> > distress?
> Hmmm... Seems like you don't understand that it was God who created that distress, no? Or was it the devil? Or maybe Flip Wilson?
>
> Just like when watching a lot of sci-fi movies, to believe in God requires a very large dose of "willing suspension of disbelief". That is to say, you must turn off scientific thought. The two are irrevocably incompatible.
>
> Combine that with the total lack of unequivocal evidence of the existence of God and it is much easier to suspend belief in god.
>
> --
>
> Rick C.
>
> -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
> -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

If you're interested:
<https://www.gotquestions.org/search.php?zoom_sort=0&zoom_query=proof+of+god%5C>
And Jesus?
<https://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-exist.html>

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 10:02:12 PM UTC-4, dean...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 1:50:07 PM UTC-6, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 9:55:49 AM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> > > Tom Gardner wrote:
> > > > On 15/12/21 11:11, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > > >> On 15-Dec-21 9:04 pm, Tom Gardner wrote:
> > > >>> On 15/12/21 07:42, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > > >>>> On 12-Dec-21 1:01 am, Rick C wrote:
> > > >>>>> 50 dead and it may rise to 100. Yet KY is seeing 60 deaths every
> > > >>>>> day from Covid and the count is on the rise again. KY only has a
> > > >>>>> 53% fully vaccinated rate. I suppose they don't fear a deadly
> > > >>>>> disease.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> So it stands to reason they don't fear tornadoes much either. I
> > > >>>>> wonder if they have anything in their building code that requires
> > > >>>>> protection from tornadoes? Most likely too many people demand
> > > >>>>> their freedom from intrusive building codes.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I saw that some people were praying to God outside their destroyed
> > > >>>> church.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Were they praying for a miracle or because there had been a miracle?
> > > >>
> > > >> Well, I suppose they could have been thanking God for finally showing
> > > >> very clearly that he doesn't give a stuff about them, so that in
> > > >> future they can stop with the whole praying thing, and use their time
> > > >> for something they actually like doing.
> > > >>
> > > >> But probably not.
> > > >
> > > > It is easy to imagine other possibilities, e.g. they were
> > > > thanking God for destroying the evil heretics from another
> > > > denomination. Ditto Godless people in general.
> > > Gee, you atheist folks are so compassionate. How about, they love God
> > > and love their church, and are praying for His aid and comfort in their
> > > distress?
> > Hmmm... Seems like you don't understand that it was God who created that distress, no? Or was it the devil? Or maybe Flip Wilson?
> >
> > Just like when watching a lot of sci-fi movies, to believe in God requires a very large dose of "willing suspension of disbelief". That is to say, you must turn off scientific thought. The two are irrevocably incompatible.
> >
> > Combine that with the total lack of unequivocal evidence of the existence of God and it is much easier to suspend belief in god.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Rick C.
> >
> > -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
> > -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
> If you're interested:
> <https://www.gotquestions.org/search.php?zoom_sort=0&zoom_query=proof+of+god%5C>

That link pretty well sucks. No sign of intelligent life here.

> And Jesus?
> <https://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-exist.html>

Yeah, not much better.

These pages would get an 'F' in any logic class.

--

Rick C.

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On 15/12/21 22:39, John Larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2021 15:50:43 -0500, Phil Hobbs
> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
>> Tom Gardner wrote:
>>> On 15/12/21 13:55, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>> Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>> On 15/12/21 11:11, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>> On 15-Dec-21 9:04 pm, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>>>> On 15/12/21 07:42, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 12-Dec-21 1:01 am, Rick C wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 50 dead and it may rise to 100.  Yet KY is seeing 60 deaths every
>>>>>>>>> day from Covid and the count is on the rise again.  KY only has a
>>>>>>>>> 53% fully vaccinated rate.  I suppose they don't fear a deadly
>>>>>>>>> disease.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So it stands to reason they don't fear tornadoes much either.  I
>>>>>>>>> wonder if they have anything in their building code that requires
>>>>>>>>> protection from tornadoes?  Most likely too many people demand
>>>>>>>>> their freedom from intrusive building codes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I saw that some people were praying to God outside their destroyed
>>>>>>>> church.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Were they praying for a miracle or because there had been a miracle?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, I suppose they could have been thanking God for finally
>>>>>> showing very clearly that he doesn't give a stuff about them, so
>>>>>> that in future they can stop with the whole praying thing, and use
>>>>>> their time for something they actually like doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But probably not.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is easy to imagine other possibilities, e.g. they were
>>>>> thanking God for destroying the evil heretics from another
>>>>> denomination. Ditto Godless people in general.
>>>>
>>>> Gee, you atheist folks are so compassionate.  How about, they love God
>>>> and love their church, and are praying for His aid and comfort in
>>>> their distress?
>>>
>>> Er - no. I think such any behaviour is reprehensible.
>>>
>>> I'm just reporting what some religious people actually do
>>> to other groups, in the name of their religion. For examples,
>>> see history books and newspapers.
>>
>> Are you proposing to take responsibility for all the evil done by
>> atheists? Such as the Holocaust, Holodomor, Great Leap Forward, Uighur
>> genocide....
>>
>> Because, being such a rational guy, you'd obviously see the logic of
>> your position.
>>
>>>
>>> But an omnipotent God could have prevented them being in
>>> distress in the first place.
>>
>> And a merciful God is very patient even with His enemies.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Phil Hobbs
>
> As a practical matter, Christians are more peaceful, more productive,
> and more charitable than nons.
>
> But maybe God might be a little more patient with His friends?

Remind me... how many billion dollars has the catholic
church in the US been forced to give its victims as
compensation? (As if there could be be any meaningful
form of compensation for what they did).

On 15/12/2021 23:39, John Larkin wrote:

> As a practical matter, Christians are more peaceful, more productive,
> and more charitable than nons.
>
> But maybe God might be a little more patient with His friends?
>

Are you basing that on anything factual, or merely wishful thinking?

The percentage of people who call themselves "Christian" who actually
follow the main teachings of Jesus, as given in the Gospels, is /tiny/.
"Love God" ? They may go to church on Sundays, but that's not
impressive dedication. "Love thy neighbour" ? That doesn't mean
chatting over the garden fence or helping out at a school fundraiser.
"Love your enemies" ? Not a chance. "Turn the other cheek" ? Only
while you are reloading.

In the USA, there is a strong correlation between being violent, angry,
ignorant, bigoted, gun-loving, conspiracy-theorist and identifying as
strongly "Christian".

Being religious certainly does not make a person violent, greedy or
evil. But being religious can give such people an excuse - it makes
them think that what they are doing and how they are acting is "right"
because they are doing what their god wants (based on whatever
interpretation or misinterpretation they have made themselves or been
fed by others).

It is a little like being drunk. Alcohol does not make people violent,
angry or unpleasant - it reduces the inhibitions of people that were
already violent and unpleasant, so that they cannot repress those
aspects of themselves.

Basically, people use religion as an excuse not to think, not to make
their own decisions and take responsibility for themselves. But it does
not really change the kind of person you are - for better or for worse.

On 16/12/2021 01:53, Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 15/12/21 22:50, David Brown wrote:
>> On 15/12/2021 21:50, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> Tom Gardner wrote:
>>
>>>> Er - no. I think such any behaviour is reprehensible.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just reporting what some religious people actually do
>>>> to other groups, in the name of their religion. For examples,
>>>> see history books and newspapers.
>>>
>>> Are you proposing to take responsibility for all the evil done by
>>> atheists?  Such as the Holocaust, Holodomor, Great Leap Forward, Uighur
>>> genocide....
>>>
>>> Because, being such a rational guy, you'd obviously see the logic of
>>> your position.
>
> Religious people want to ascribe everything good to
> their omnipotent God, and everything bad to something/body
> else. That's willful blindness and/or hypocrisy.
>

It is something we all do - though our "god" may vary. As rational and
logical people, we must constantly be aware of this effect, which is a
variation of "confirmation bias". Some alternatives are clearly as
irrational as any religious gods, such as wearing your lucky socks for
an exam. But even the most Spock-like of us will do the same thing
regarding political parties, countries, education, friends and family.

>
>> Hitler referred to himself as a Christian (for the most part), as did
>> most Nazis.  Regardless, /people/ are responsible for the evil acts they
>> commit, not religions, gods or lack thereof.  Religion is merely a
>> popular excuse for many acts of evil, and it is a tool used by evil
>> people to control others.  It is entirely clear that neither religion
>> nor belief in any god or other supernatural idea, nor lack of such
>> beliefs, gives any guarantees of someone being either a good or a bad
>> person.
>
> Precisely. Mensch is mensch.
>
>
>> No one is suggesting that religious people, simply by following a
>> particular religion, are directly responsible for any kind of evil act.
>>   Whatever evil they do themselves, support or condone, is a matter for
>> the individual.
>
> It becomes less clear when religious authorities condone,
> turn a blind eye, or even cover up despicable acts.
>

A willingness to tolerate evil in order to protect your own position or
organisation, when you could do something about it, is also evil. You
might think that exposing things would be worse overall, however -
people in power are always faced with "lesser of two evils" decisions
and they are never easy. Remember, when we hear about these things it
is usually from the outside, with only partial information, with
hindsight, and viewed with the morals and standards of today rather than
of the time of the event. (That doesn't mean any given cover-up was a
good or excusable thing - merely that reality is complicated.)

You get the same thing in any organisation - political parties are a
fine example, but it applies to companies, schools, sports clubs, and
pretty much any organisation. Mensch is mensch, and religions are not
special here.

On 16/12/21 08:08, David Brown wrote:
> On 16/12/2021 01:53, Tom Gardner wrote:
>> On 15/12/21 22:50, David Brown wrote:
>>> On 15/12/2021 21:50, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>> Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Er - no. I think such any behaviour is reprehensible.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just reporting what some religious people actually do
>>>>> to other groups, in the name of their religion. For examples,
>>>>> see history books and newspapers.
>>>>
>>>> Are you proposing to take responsibility for all the evil done by
>>>> atheists?  Such as the Holocaust, Holodomor, Great Leap Forward, Uighur
>>>> genocide....
>>>>
>>>> Because, being such a rational guy, you'd obviously see the logic of
>>>> your position.
>>
>> Religious people want to ascribe everything good to
>> their omnipotent God, and everything bad to something/body
>> else. That's willful blindness and/or hypocrisy.
>>
>
> It is something we all do - though our "god" may vary. As rational and
> logical people, we must constantly be aware of this effect, which is a
> variation of "confirmation bias". Some alternatives are clearly as
> irrational as any religious gods, such as wearing your lucky socks for
> an exam. But even the most Spock-like of us will do the same thing
> regarding political parties, countries, education, friends and family.
>
>>
>>> Hitler referred to himself as a Christian (for the most part), as did
>>> most Nazis.  Regardless, /people/ are responsible for the evil acts they
>>> commit, not religions, gods or lack thereof.  Religion is merely a
>>> popular excuse for many acts of evil, and it is a tool used by evil
>>> people to control others.  It is entirely clear that neither religion
>>> nor belief in any god or other supernatural idea, nor lack of such
>>> beliefs, gives any guarantees of someone being either a good or a bad
>>> person.
>>
>> Precisely. Mensch is mensch.
>>
>>
>>> No one is suggesting that religious people, simply by following a
>>> particular religion, are directly responsible for any kind of evil act.
>>>   Whatever evil they do themselves, support or condone, is a matter for
>>> the individual.
>>
>> It becomes less clear when religious authorities condone,
>> turn a blind eye, or even cover up despicable acts.
>>
>
> A willingness to tolerate evil in order to protect your own position or
> organisation, when you could do something about it, is also evil.

That's something the Catholic church has done, and is
being severely financially penalised in the US.

The CofE has a similar problem, but perhaps not to the
same extent.

Given their behaviour, /neither/ has any moral authority
to assert what is bad behaviour in others.

> You
> might think that exposing things would be worse overall, however -
> people in power are always faced with "lesser of two evils" decisions
> and they are never easy. Remember, when we hear about these things it
> is usually from the outside, with only partial information, with
> hindsight, and viewed with the morals and standards of today rather than
> of the time of the event. (That doesn't mean any given cover-up was a
> good or excusable thing - merely that reality is complicated.)

The "partial information" issue is real, but even taking that
into account the Catholic church and CofE are delinquent.

> You get the same thing in any organisation - political parties are a
> fine example, but it applies to companies, schools, sports clubs, and
> pretty much any organisation. Mensch is mensch, and religions are not
> special here.

Just so.

I expect all other religious organisations have similar problems, whether or not
they are recognised.

On 16/12/2021 11:33, Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 16/12/21 08:08, David Brown wrote:
>> On 16/12/2021 01:53, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>> On 15/12/21 22:50, David Brown wrote:

>>>
>>>> No one is suggesting that religious people, simply by following a
>>>> particular religion, are directly responsible for any kind of evil act.
>>>>    Whatever evil they do themselves, support or condone, is a matter
>>>> for
>>>> the individual.
>>>
>>> It becomes less clear when religious authorities condone,
>>> turn a blind eye, or even cover up despicable acts.
>>>
>>
>> A willingness to tolerate evil in order to protect your own position or
>> organisation, when you could do something about it, is also evil. 
>
> That's something the Catholic church has done, and is
> being severely  financially penalised in the US.
>

Yes, and in other countries - and other organisations too.

> The CofE has a similar problem, but perhaps not to the
> same extent.
>
> Given their behaviour, /neither/ has any moral authority
> to assert what is bad behaviour in others.
>

No church or religion has moral authority over anyone who is not a
member of that church or religion. But some religious groups /think/
they have moral authority over others.

>
>> You
>> might think that exposing things would be worse overall, however -
>> people in power are always faced with "lesser of two evils" decisions
>> and they are never easy.  Remember, when we hear about these things it
>> is usually from the outside, with only partial information, with
>> hindsight, and viewed with the morals and standards of today rather than
>> of the time of the event.  (That doesn't mean any given cover-up was a
>> good or excusable thing - merely that reality is complicated.)
>
> The "partial information" issue is real, but even taking that
> into account the Catholic church and CofE are delinquent.
>
>
>> You get the same thing in any organisation - political parties are a
>> fine example, but it applies to companies, schools, sports clubs, and
>> pretty much any organisation.  Mensch is mensch, and religions are not
>> special here.
>
> Just so.
>
> I expect all other religious organisations have similar problems,
> whether or not they are recognised.
>

/Every/ organisation of a certain size has its bad apples. You should
not blame the entire organisation or all its members for the misdeeds of
certain members. But you /should/ expect the organisation to deal
appropriately with those bad members, rather than covering things up.

On 16/12/21 12:56, David Brown wrote:
> On 16/12/2021 11:33, Tom Gardner wrote:
>> On 16/12/21 08:08, David Brown wrote:
>>> On 16/12/2021 01:53, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>> On 15/12/21 22:50, David Brown wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>>> No one is suggesting that religious people, simply by following a
>>>>> particular religion, are directly responsible for any kind of evil act.
>>>>>    Whatever evil they do themselves, support or condone, is a matter
>>>>> for
>>>>> the individual.
>>>>
>>>> It becomes less clear when religious authorities condone,
>>>> turn a blind eye, or even cover up despicable acts.
>>>>
>>>
>>> A willingness to tolerate evil in order to protect your own position or
>>> organisation, when you could do something about it, is also evil.
>>
>> That's something the Catholic church has done, and is
>> being severely  financially penalised in the US.
>>
>
> Yes, and in other countries - and other organisations too.
>
>> The CofE has a similar problem, but perhaps not to the
>> same extent.
>>
>> Given their behaviour, /neither/ has any moral authority
>> to assert what is bad behaviour in others.
>>
>
> No church or religion has moral authority over anyone who is not a
> member of that church or religion. But some religious groups /think/
> they have moral authority over others.

Indeed.

But in those circumstances I'd term it immoral authority
over their adherents.

>>> You
>>> might think that exposing things would be worse overall, however -
>>> people in power are always faced with "lesser of two evils" decisions
>>> and they are never easy.  Remember, when we hear about these things it
>>> is usually from the outside, with only partial information, with
>>> hindsight, and viewed with the morals and standards of today rather than
>>> of the time of the event.  (That doesn't mean any given cover-up was a
>>> good or excusable thing - merely that reality is complicated.)
>>
>> The "partial information" issue is real, but even taking that
>> into account the Catholic church and CofE are delinquent.
>>
>>
>>> You get the same thing in any organisation - political parties are a
>>> fine example, but it applies to companies, schools, sports clubs, and
>>> pretty much any organisation.  Mensch is mensch, and religions are not
>>> special here.
>>
>> Just so.
>>
>> I expect all other religious organisations have similar problems,
>> whether or not they are recognised.
>>
>
> /Every/ organisation of a certain size has its bad apples. You should
> not blame the entire organisation or all its members for the misdeeds of
> certain members. But you /should/ expect the organisation to deal
> appropriately with those bad members, rather than covering things up.

Precisely.

As with engineering, how things fail is at least as important
as how they work.

Churches (etc) perform as badly as commercial and political
organisations.

Phil Hobbs wrote:
> Tom Gardner wrote:
>> I'm just reporting what some religious people actually do to other groups,
>> in the name of their religion. For examples, see history books and
>> newspapers.
>
> Are you proposing to take responsibility for all the evil done by atheists?
> Such as the Holocaust, Holodomor, Great Leap Forward, Uighur genocide....

You do understand the difference betwen "in the name of" and "by"?

> Because, being such a rational guy, you'd obviously see the logic of
> your position.

He does. You don't.

On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 3:57:49 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> On 15/12/2021 23:39, John Larkin wrote:
>
> > As a practical matter, Christians are more peaceful, more productive,
> > and more charitable than nons.
> >
> > But maybe God might be a little more patient with His friends?
> >
> Are you basing that on anything factual, or merely wishful thinking?

Duh! This is "I don't need no proof" Larkin!

--

Rick C.

-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209