On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 3:05:10 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 14:29:32 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 10:53:17 -0800, John Larkin
> ><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Thu, 16 Dec 2021 14:28:26 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>>The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get
> >>>"dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides
> >>>deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and
> >>>microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels.
> >>>
> >>>So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing
> >>>(if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too
> >>>much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the
> >>>rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits,
> >>>I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid.
> >>>
> >>>Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through
> >>>some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process
> >>>described.
> >>
> >>Just curious, why would grown men play with model trains?
> >
> >It's sorta like grown men chasing picoseconds through components the
> >size of peppercorns?
> Designing electronics is continuously interesting, and makes money as
> opposed to spending it.
>
> The trains go round and round. Is that amusing, or is the construction
> the whole point?
>
> We wouldn't have enough room anyhow.
> >
> >(I outgrew trains, and gave what remained to my nephew, who didn't
> >stay interested all that long.)
> I had a train set as a kid, but mostly took them apart.
> >
> >
> >>(I expect that few women do.) F
> >
> >I bet there is at least one unsuspecting girl who inherited her
> >father's passion for model trains.
> >
> >I've seen lots of youtube videos of young women running metal working
> >lathes, and clearly know what they are doing - probably grew up with
> >it, often on a farm.
> One extremely expensive private high school near here has mandatory
> courses in electronics and welding.
> --
>
> If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
> but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
> Francis Bacon
For a period of time (mid 70s-mid 80's) it was often a senior project for EE's - the application of micros to control somewhat elaborate HO train layouts. Things grew beyond sensing discrete position and coordinating switching to techniques to PWM a signal on the tracks to address various trains to control some event. More challenging scenarios would include consideration of various faults.
With the advent of IoT devices, all sorts of various use scenarios could be thought out and applied by Jr and Sr EE students.

....
> very much so. A big cap across the motor helps.

Ones using electronic control (DCC) frequently do put as a large a capacitor as can be fitted. Ones without electronics on-board have a difficulty in that the track could be of either polarity.

>A flywheel would help too.

The better locos do have as large a flywheel as can be fitted.

>Don't know if lead in the loco might improve contact too.

Any spare space is usually filled with lead to increase the weight, there is just not much room in the loco to provide much weight.

> I'm no model train fan, but IIUC arcing burns away some of the crud causing arcing, so it's not a one sided thing.

kw

On Friday, 24 December 2021 at 06:10:24 UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
....
> >I'm no model train fan, but IIUC arcing burns away some of the crud causing arcing, so it's not a one sided thing.
> Why not gold plate everything?

Wouldn't help - the issue is contamination. It is not feasible to gold-plate the nickel-silver track anyway.

kw
>

On Fri, 24 Dec 2021 10:38:25 -0800 (PST), "ke...@kjwdesigns.com"
<keith@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

>On Friday, 24 December 2021 at 06:10:24 UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>...
>> >I'm no model train fan, but IIUC arcing burns away some of the crud causing arcing, so it's not a one sided thing.
>> Why not gold plate everything?
>
>Wouldn't help - the issue is contamination. It is not feasible to gold-plate the nickel-silver track anyway.
>
>kw
>>

Our PCBs are all ENIG now, gold over nickel.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

On Friday, December 24, 2021 at 4:11:42 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Dec 2021 10:38:25 -0800 (PST), "ke...@kjwdesigns.com"
> <ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, 24 December 2021 at 06:10:24 UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >...
> >> >I'm no model train fan, but IIUC arcing burns away some of the crud causing arcing, so it's not a one sided thing.
> >> Why not gold plate everything?
> >
> >Wouldn't help - the issue is contamination. It is not feasible to gold-plate the nickel-silver track anyway.
> >
> >kw
> >>
> Our PCBs are all ENIG now, gold over nickel.

The gold is microinches thick. It would wear away quickly from model railroad use. Even so, the cost would not be insignificant. They charge for gold even on small PCBs. Some yards of track would add some dollars to the cost.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Friday, 24 December 2021 at 18:37:17 UTC, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
> ...
> > very much so. A big cap across the motor helps.
> Ones using electronic control (DCC) frequently do put as a large a capacitor as can be fitted. Ones without electronics on-board have a difficulty in that the track could be of either polarity.

2 caps, each with 2 diodes would solve that.

> >A flywheel would help too.
> The better locos do have as large a flywheel as can be fitted.
> >Don't know if lead in the loco might improve contact too.
> Any spare space is usually filled with lead to increase the weight, there is just not much room in the loco to provide much weight.
> > I'm no model train fan, but IIUC arcing burns away some of the crud causing arcing, so it's not a one sided thing.
> kw

On a sunny day (Fri, 24 Dec 2021 10:38:25 -0800 (PST)) it happened
"ke...@kjwdesigns.com" <keith@kjwdesigns.com> wrote in
<73b264cd-5d11-4957-a8f2-0b6eebcd7bedn@googlegroups.com>:

>On Friday, 24 December 2021 at 06:10:24 UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>...
>> >I'm no model train fan, but IIUC arcing burns away some of the crud causing arcing, so it's not a one sided thing.
>> Why not gold plate everything?
>
>Wouldn't help - the issue is contamination. It is not feasible to gold-plate the nickel-silver track anyway.
>
>kw

Why not put a big lipo in the locomotive, and do inductive charging at points where the train stops?
Add WiFi or something to control speed.
Or solar cells on the roofs of the carriages and a big spotlight above.
you have to go with the times.... ;-)

That said, I never had an electric toy train.

On Fri, 24 Dec 2021 15:45:14 -0800 (PST), Rick C
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, December 24, 2021 at 4:11:42 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Dec 2021 10:38:25 -0800 (PST), "ke...@kjwdesigns.com"
>> <ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Friday, 24 December 2021 at 06:10:24 UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> >...
>> >> >I'm no model train fan, but IIUC arcing burns away some of the crud causing arcing, so it's not a one sided thing.
>> >> Why not gold plate everything?
>> >
>> >Wouldn't help - the issue is contamination. It is not feasible to gold-plate the nickel-silver track anyway.
>> >
>> >kw
>> >>
>> Our PCBs are all ENIG now, gold over nickel.
>
>The gold is microinches thick. It would wear away quickly from model railroad use. Even so, the cost would not be insignificant. They charge for gold even on small PCBs. Some yards of track would add some dollars to the cost.

Silver plating the tracks could work. But multiple sliding/rolling
contacts per real is still needed.

Joe Gwinn

On Saturday, December 25, 2021 at 11:03:15 AM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Dec 2021 15:45:14 -0800 (PST), Rick C
> <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, December 24, 2021 at 4:11:42 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Fri, 24 Dec 2021 10:38:25 -0800 (PST), "ke...@kjwdesigns.com"
> >> <ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Friday, 24 December 2021 at 06:10:24 UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >> >...
> >> >> >I'm no model train fan, but IIUC arcing burns away some of the crud causing arcing, so it's not a one sided thing.
> >> >> Why not gold plate everything?
> >> >
> >> >Wouldn't help - the issue is contamination. It is not feasible to gold-plate the nickel-silver track anyway.
> >> >
> >> >kw
> >> >>
> >> Our PCBs are all ENIG now, gold over nickel.
> >
> >The gold is microinches thick. It would wear away quickly from model railroad use. Even so, the cost would not be insignificant. They charge for gold even on small PCBs. Some yards of track would add some dollars to the cost.
> Silver plating the tracks could work. But multiple sliding/rolling
> contacts per real is still needed.

I don't think silver is an improvement over nickle is it? It's not like silver doesn't tarnish.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

In article <335a5b40-bd95-4111-8c6a-da6128561fafn@googlegroups.com>,
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com says...
>
> I don't think silver is an improvement over nickle is it? It's not like silver doesn't tarnish.
>
>
>

Silver will tarnish but silver oxide is suppose to be a good conductor
where other oxides are not good condctors.

Silver costs too much and silver plate will ware off too soon.

On Friday, 24 December 2021 at 18:48:40 UTC-8, Tabby wrote:
....
> > > very much so. A big cap across the motor helps.
> > Ones using electronic control (DCC) frequently do put as a large a capacitor as can be fitted. Ones without electronics on-board have a difficulty in that the track could be of either polarity.
> 2 caps, each with 2 diodes would solve that.

In the smaller scales that suffer from track connectivity it is difficult (maybe impossible) to find space for a single cap, let alone 2 of adequate value.

kw

On Saturday, 25 December 2021 at 08:03:15 UTC-8, Joe Gwinn wrote:
....
> >The gold is microinches thick. It would wear away quickly from model railroad use. Even so, the cost would not be insignificant. They charge for gold even on small PCBs. Some yards of track would add some dollars to the cost.
> Silver plating the tracks could work.

Most model railway track is made of nickel-silver that possesses the useful characteristic that the oxide is (somewhat conductive). Silver is similar.

> But multiple sliding/rolling contacts per real is still needed.

The better quality locomotives already use all the weight bearing wheels as current collectors.

kw
....

On Saturday, 25 December 2021 at 10:25:47 UTC-8, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <335a5b40-bd95-4111...@googlegroups.com>,
> gnuarm.del...@gmail.com says...
> >
> > I don't think silver is an improvement over nickle is it? It's not like silver doesn't tarnish.
> >
> >
> >
> Silver will tarnish but silver oxide is suppose to be a good conductor
> where other oxides are not good condctors.

Nickel-silver that the tracks are made of is similar. Nickel silver is mainly copper together with nickel and zinc.
....
kw

On Saturday, 25 December 2021 at 18:54:33 UTC, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
> On Friday, 24 December 2021 at 18:48:40 UTC-8, Tabby wrote:
> ...
> > > > very much so. A big cap across the motor helps.
> > > Ones using electronic control (DCC) frequently do put as a large a capacitor as can be fitted. Ones without electronics on-board have a difficulty in that the track could be of either polarity.
> > 2 caps, each with 2 diodes would solve that.
> In the smaller scales that suffer from track connectivity it is difficult (maybe impossible) to find space for a single cap, let alone 2 of adequate value.
>
> kw

Custom shaped caps could help, but it all ups the price.
I suspect pouring a little lead into any vacant spaces would have more effect, IIUC the problem really stems from inadequate downforce.

On 17/12/2021 5:28 am, bitrex wrote:
> The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get
> "dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides
> deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and
> microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels.
>
> So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing
> (if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too
> much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the
> rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits,
> I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid.
>
> Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through
> some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process
> described.
>
I cant see any reason why a snubber across the tracks (and maybe one in
the engine for good measure) wouldn't work a treat.

On Thursday, 30 December 2021 at 00:44:30 UTC, David Eather wrote:
> On 17/12/2021 5:28 am, bitrex wrote:
> > The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get
> > "dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides
> > deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and
> > microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels.
> >
> > So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing
> > (if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too
> > much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the
> > rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits,
> > I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid.
> >
> > Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through
> > some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process
> > described.
> >
> I cant see any reason why a snubber across the tracks (and maybe one in
> the engine for good measure) wouldn't work a treat.

I can't see a track snubber helping.

On Thursday, December 30, 2021 at 5:18:22 PM UTC-8, Tabby wrote:
> On Thursday, 30 December 2021 at 00:44:30 UTC, David Eather wrote:
> > On 17/12/2021 5:28 am, bitrex wrote:
> > > The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get
> > > "dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides
> > > deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and
> > > microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels.
> > >
> > > So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing
> > > (if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too
> > > much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the
> > > rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits,
> > > I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid.
> > >
> > > Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through
> > > some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process
> > > described.
> > >
> > I cant see any reason why a snubber across the tracks (and maybe one in
> > the engine for good measure) wouldn't work a treat.
> I can't see a track snubber helping.

Or you can skip power transmission thru the rails altogether and have on-board batteries with radio control:
https://www.s-cab.com/
You can have multiple locomotives operate simultaneously on the same track.

On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 12:53:10 AM UTC-5, Flyguy wrote:
> On Thursday, December 30, 2021 at 5:18:22 PM UTC-8, Tabby wrote:
> > On Thursday, 30 December 2021 at 00:44:30 UTC, David Eather wrote:
> > > On 17/12/2021 5:28 am, bitrex wrote:
> > > > The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get
> > > > "dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides
> > > > deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and
> > > > microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels.
> > > >
> > > > So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing
> > > > (if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too
> > > > much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the
> > > > rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits,
> > > > I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid.
> > > >
> > > > Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through
> > > > some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process
> > > > described.
> > > >
> > > I cant see any reason why a snubber across the tracks (and maybe one in
> > > the engine for good measure) wouldn't work a treat.
> > I can't see a track snubber helping.
> Or you can skip power transmission thru the rails altogether and have on-board batteries with radio control:
> https://www.s-cab.com/
> You can have multiple locomotives operate simultaneously on the same track.

That's what I was thinking. It would be more like a real train having to stop at a filling point to get fuel. The power connection could be wireless, or it could emulate a fuel hose and be plugged into the fuel tank on the engine. Charge up the battery and it's ready for another trip. I guess you need someplace to put the batteries. Diesel trains don't have hopper cars anymore. They don't even have cabooses. The caboose is a red light fastened to the last car. I think it monitors pressure in the air hose.

Is there space in the locomotive for a battery or two? The engine control could be RF which could be very small, a single 8 pin MCU plus the RF receiver which can be a single transistor and a coil I believe. They probably already have the remote RF and MCU unit. I expect the only real issue will be where to put the battery.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Friday, 31 December 2021 at 09:01:01 UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
....
> Is there space in the locomotive for a battery or two? The engine control could be RF which could be very small, a single 8 pin MCU plus the RF receiver which can be a single transistor and a coil I believe. They probably already have the remote RF and MCU unit. I expect the only real issue will be where to put the battery.
>
....
The commercial units are a bit more sophisticated than that with full superhet 2.4GHz receivers and an H-bridge to operate the motor. The smallest are about 1cm square and about 2mm thick. Additional output channels are often available for controlling lights etc.

The battery is a space issue in the smaller scales such but the smallest single cell at a bit larger than the receiver can often be squeezed in.

http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/rx_dt_land_v5.html

Multiple trains can be run on the same track without resorting to this approach using Digital Command Control (DCC) where the track is fed a coded signal that is used to provide both power and data.

kw

On 2021-12-31 18:42, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
> On Friday, 31 December 2021 at 09:01:01 UTC-8,
> gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: ...
>> Is there space in the locomotive for a battery or two? The engine
>> control could be RF which could be very small, a single 8 pin MCU
>> plus the RF receiver which can be a single transistor and a coil I
>> believe. They probably already have the remote RF and MCU unit. I
>> expect the only real issue will be where to put the battery.
>>
> ... The commercial units are a bit more sophisticated than that with
> full superhet 2.4GHz receivers and an H-bridge to operate the motor.
> The smallest are about 1cm square and about 2mm thick. Additional
> output channels are often available for controlling lights etc.
>
[...]
>
> http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/rx_dt_land_v5.html

Where does it say that these are superhets?

Jeroen Belleman

On Friday, 31 December 2021 at 09:55:35 UTC-8, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
....
> >
> > http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/rx_dt_land_v5.html
>
> Where does it say that these are superhets?
....
These days nobody would implement anything other than a superhet in an IC. The requirements for frequency accuracy and emissions mean that super-regenerative receivers are not appropriate. The receivers do typically use either zero IF with I/Q demodulation or a low IF in the couple of hundred kHz region as that can avoid the need for external LC or ceramic filters.

I think this is the data sheet for the receivers I linked to:

https://www.digikey.sg/htmldatasheets/production/836363/0/0/1/cyrf6936.html

kw

On 2021-12-31 19:11, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
> On Friday, 31 December 2021 at 09:55:35 UTC-8, Jeroen Belleman
> wrote: ...
>>>
>>> http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/rx_dt_land_v5.html
>>
>> Where does it say that these are superhets?
> ... These days nobody would implement anything other than a superhet
> in an IC. The requirements for frequency accuracy and emissions mean
> that super-regenerative receivers are not appropriate. The receivers
> do typically use either zero IF with I/Q demodulation or a low IF in
> the couple of hundred kHz region as that can avoid the need for
> external LC or ceramic filters.
>
> I think this is the data sheet for the receivers I linked to:
>
> https://www.digikey.sg/htmldatasheets/production/836363/0/0/1/cyrf6936.html
>
> kw
>

Ah, I see the 12MHz crystal in the pictures now. OK, superhets.

Jeroen Belleman

On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 9:01:01 AM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 12:53:10 AM UTC-5, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 30, 2021 at 5:18:22 PM UTC-8, Tabby wrote:
> > > On Thursday, 30 December 2021 at 00:44:30 UTC, David Eather wrote:
> > > > On 17/12/2021 5:28 am, bitrex wrote:
> > > > > The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get
> > > > > "dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides
> > > > > deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and
> > > > > microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels.
> > > > >
> > > > > So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing
> > > > > (if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too
> > > > > much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the
> > > > > rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits,
> > > > > I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through
> > > > > some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process
> > > > > described.
> > > > >
> > > > I cant see any reason why a snubber across the tracks (and maybe one in
> > > > the engine for good measure) wouldn't work a treat.
> > > I can't see a track snubber helping.
> > Or you can skip power transmission thru the rails altogether and have on-board batteries with radio control:
> > https://www.s-cab.com/
> > You can have multiple locomotives operate simultaneously on the same track.
> That's what I was thinking. It would be more like a real train having to stop at a filling point to get fuel. The power connection could be wireless, or it could emulate a fuel hose and be plugged into the fuel tank on the engine. Charge up the battery and it's ready for another trip. I guess you need someplace to put the batteries. Diesel trains don't have hopper cars anymore. They don't even have cabooses. The caboose is a red light fastened to the last car. I think it monitors pressure in the air hose.
>
> Is there space in the locomotive for a battery or two? The engine control could be RF which could be very small, a single 8 pin MCU plus the RF receiver which can be a single transistor and a coil I believe. They probably already have the remote RF and MCU unit. I expect the only real issue will be where to put the battery.
>
> --
>
> Rick C.
>
> +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
> +- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

The link provided details all of this. The batteries are rechargeable lithium's and recharging can be done on any electrified portion of the track. Control is by RF, again shown in the link. It is more expensive than the old way but eliminates a lot of problems. And if you are a serious hobbyist the cost is irrelevant.

On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 11:40:19 PM UTC-5, Flyguy wrote:
> On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 9:01:01 AM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 12:53:10 AM UTC-5, Flyguy wrote:
> > > On Thursday, December 30, 2021 at 5:18:22 PM UTC-8, Tabby wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, 30 December 2021 at 00:44:30 UTC, David Eather wrote:
> > > > > On 17/12/2021 5:28 am, bitrex wrote:
> > > > > > The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get
> > > > > > "dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides
> > > > > > deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and
> > > > > > microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing
> > > > > > (if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too
> > > > > > much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the
> > > > > > rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits,
> > > > > > I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid..
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through
> > > > > > some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process
> > > > > > described.
> > > > > >
> > > > > I cant see any reason why a snubber across the tracks (and maybe one in
> > > > > the engine for good measure) wouldn't work a treat.
> > > > I can't see a track snubber helping.
> > > Or you can skip power transmission thru the rails altogether and have on-board batteries with radio control:
> > > https://www.s-cab.com/
> > > You can have multiple locomotives operate simultaneously on the same track.
> > That's what I was thinking. It would be more like a real train having to stop at a filling point to get fuel. The power connection could be wireless, or it could emulate a fuel hose and be plugged into the fuel tank on the engine. Charge up the battery and it's ready for another trip. I guess you need someplace to put the batteries. Diesel trains don't have hopper cars anymore. They don't even have cabooses. The caboose is a red light fastened to the last car. I think it monitors pressure in the air hose.
> >
> > Is there space in the locomotive for a battery or two? The engine control could be RF which could be very small, a single 8 pin MCU plus the RF receiver which can be a single transistor and a coil I believe. They probably already have the remote RF and MCU unit. I expect the only real issue will be where to put the battery.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Rick C.
> >
> > +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
> > +- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
> The link provided details all of this. The batteries are rechargeable lithium's and recharging can be done on any electrified portion of the track. Control is by RF, again shown in the link. It is more expensive than the old way but eliminates a lot of problems. And if you are a serious hobbyist the cost is irrelevant.

The link is of a design using modules rather than an integrated design. But they manage to cram it into an HO gauge so I guess it's not all that large. It would seem they charge through the rails? I guess you can do that with a stationary unit and not have the problem with the tarnish impacting the connection.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 8:51:17 PM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 11:40:19 PM UTC-5, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 9:01:01 AM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 12:53:10 AM UTC-5, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, December 30, 2021 at 5:18:22 PM UTC-8, Tabby wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, 30 December 2021 at 00:44:30 UTC, David Eather wrote:
> > > > > > On 17/12/2021 5:28 am, bitrex wrote:
> > > > > > > The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get
> > > > > > > "dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides
> > > > > > > deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and
> > > > > > > microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing
> > > > > > > (if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too
> > > > > > > much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the
> > > > > > > rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits,
> > > > > > > I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through
> > > > > > > some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process
> > > > > > > described.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > I cant see any reason why a snubber across the tracks (and maybe one in
> > > > > > the engine for good measure) wouldn't work a treat.
> > > > > I can't see a track snubber helping.
> > > > Or you can skip power transmission thru the rails altogether and have on-board batteries with radio control:
> > > > https://www.s-cab.com/
> > > > You can have multiple locomotives operate simultaneously on the same track.
> > > That's what I was thinking. It would be more like a real train having to stop at a filling point to get fuel. The power connection could be wireless, or it could emulate a fuel hose and be plugged into the fuel tank on the engine. Charge up the battery and it's ready for another trip. I guess you need someplace to put the batteries. Diesel trains don't have hopper cars anymore. They don't even have cabooses. The caboose is a red light fastened to the last car. I think it monitors pressure in the air hose.
> > >
> > > Is there space in the locomotive for a battery or two? The engine control could be RF which could be very small, a single 8 pin MCU plus the RF receiver which can be a single transistor and a coil I believe. They probably already have the remote RF and MCU unit. I expect the only real issue will be where to put the battery.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Rick C.
> > >
> > > +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
> > > +- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
> > The link provided details all of this. The batteries are rechargeable lithium's and recharging can be done on any electrified portion of the track.. Control is by RF, again shown in the link. It is more expensive than the old way but eliminates a lot of problems. And if you are a serious hobbyist the cost is irrelevant.
> The link is of a design using modules rather than an integrated design. But they manage to cram it into an HO gauge so I guess it's not all that large. It would seem they charge through the rails? I guess you can do that with a stationary unit and not have the problem with the tarnish impacting the connection.
>
> --
>
> Rick C.
>
> ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
> ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

They are no different from your Tesla - it doesn't charge while you're driving, either.