Over the next two weeks the Di2 components for the Ridley will be coming in.. I got the front derailleur today. I went down into the garage and dug out the ProLite deep aluminum wheels ready to install the tubeless Vittoria tires on when they come in. I would have bought the Rubino Pros if they had been available but they weren't so I got the Corsa's. A little worse wear but a better grip on the road.

Tubeless simply because I'm going for lighter weight. But now that I watch the road closer for broken bottles, the small punctures do seal themselves.

There were several forks that I would have preferred but I settled for a new Pinarello fork. Funny thing is that the Pinarello fork doesn't break but the Specialized SL6 Tarmac that tapers out to 1 1/2" does. One of the major changes to the latest Specialized was to make the steering tube stouter.

While my Colnago C50 was not a light carbon bike it felt as solid as a rock and was one of the better riding bikes I had. I have no intentions of riding the Ridley to destruction so it will mainly be used in the hard climbing rides like Mt Hamilton (4,000 feet in 7 miles) and this time I will be sure to carry some power bars. Running out of nutrition makes what should have been a nice ride into a slog.

On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 3:05:02 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> Over the next two weeks the Di2 components for the Ridley will be coming in.

Get some popcorn it will be an entertaining build again.
>
> There were several forks that I would have preferred but I settled for a new Pinarello fork. Funny thing is that the Pinarello fork doesn't break but the Specialized SL6 Tarmac that tapers out to 1 1/2" does. One of the major changes to the latest Specialized was to make the steering tube stouter.

Didn’t the frame came with a fork? Modern frames come as a frameset today. This includes a fork, headset and often a seatpost. This is what you get if you want a Canyon Aeroad frame instead of a complete bike:

https://www.canyon.com/nl-nl/racefietsen/aero-racefietsen/aeroad/cfr/aeroad-cfr-disc-frame-and-brake-kit/3943.html?dwvar_3943_pv_rahmenfarbe=BK%2FBK

Lou

On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 10:01:16 AM UTC-4, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 3:05:02 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > Over the next two weeks the Di2 components for the Ridley will be coming in.
> Get some popcorn it will be an entertaining build again.
> >
> > There were several forks that I would have preferred but I settled for a new Pinarello fork. Funny thing is that the Pinarello fork doesn't break but the Specialized SL6 Tarmac that tapers out to 1 1/2" does. One of the major changes to the latest Specialized was to make the steering tube stouter.
> Didn’t the frame came with a fork? Modern frames come as a frameset today. This includes a fork, headset and often a seatpost. This is what you get if you want a Canyon Aeroad frame instead of a complete bike:
>
> https://www.canyon.com/nl-nl/racefietsen/aero-racefietsen/aeroad/cfr/aeroad-cfr-disc-frame-and-brake-kit/3943.html?dwvar_3943_pv_rahmenfarbe=BK%2FBK
>
> Lou
There's also the issue of the fork being compatible with the frame. Tom mentioned that this model has cable routing specific to electronic shifting, so it must be relatively new (2020 or later according to the Ridley website).. If that's the case, it may be designed for their own fork dimensions, iow a Pinarello fork might throw off the intended geometry, or even not fit at all, but I could be wrong.

Popcorn, indeed!

On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 7:01:16 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 3:05:02 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > Over the next two weeks the Di2 components for the Ridley will be coming in.
> Get some popcorn it will be an entertaining build again.
> >
> > There were several forks that I would have preferred but I settled for a new Pinarello fork. Funny thing is that the Pinarello fork doesn't break but the Specialized SL6 Tarmac that tapers out to 1 1/2" does. One of the major changes to the latest Specialized was to make the steering tube stouter.
> Didn’t the frame came with a fork? Modern frames come as a frameset today. This includes a fork, headset and often a seatpost. This is what you get if you want a Canyon Aeroad frame instead of a complete bike:
>
> https://www.canyon.com/nl-nl/racefietsen/aero-racefietsen/aeroad/cfr/aeroad-cfr-disc-frame-and-brake-kit/3943.html?dwvar_3943_pv_rahmenfarbe=BK%2FBK

Well, most of the frames being sold on Ebay have forks, but a surprisingly high percentage don't have forks. In some cases I suspect that it is because the carbon fiber fork was showing signs of breaking. In others, like the Ridley, to buy the stock fork would triple the price I paid. A 3T fork would cost $400. The latest Specialized Tarmac is an "improvement" over last year's because the forks don't break.

They are making forks with all sorts of weird size steering tubes so it is difficult to find the size your new frame takes. This makes for special forks and headsets for new carbon fiber bikes.

On 8/10/2023 8:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> Over the next two weeks the Di2 components for the Ridley will be coming in. I got the front derailleur today. I went down into the garage and dug out the ProLite deep aluminum wheels ready to install the tubeless Vittoria tires on when they come in. I would have bought the Rubino Pros if they had been available but they weren't so I got the Corsa's. A little worse wear but a better grip on the road.
>
> Tubeless simply because I'm going for lighter weight. But now that I watch the road closer for broken bottles, the small punctures do seal themselves.
>
> There were several forks that I would have preferred but I settled for a new Pinarello fork. Funny thing is that the Pinarello fork doesn't break but the Specialized SL6 Tarmac that tapers out to 1 1/2" does. One of the major changes to the latest Specialized was to make the steering tube stouter.
>
> While my Colnago C50 was not a light carbon bike it felt as solid as a rock and was one of the better riding bikes I had. I have no intentions of riding the Ridley to destruction so it will mainly be used in the hard climbing rides like Mt Hamilton (4,000 feet in 7 miles) and this time I will be sure to carry some power bars. Running out of nutrition makes what should have been a nice ride into a slog.
>
Not clear to me at all.

With same tire on same wheel, Michelin tube 65g and Torelli
or Ritchey rim liner 15g vs heavier bolt-in valve, heavier
tubeless rim liner and a couple ounces of latex (in Chalo
Cholina's colorful description, 'frog snot').

If you prefer tubeless, ride them but for road wheels
'tubeless for lighter weight' is probably not logical.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 4:54:25 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 7:01:16 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 3:05:02 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > Over the next two weeks the Di2 components for the Ridley will be coming in.
> > Get some popcorn it will be an entertaining build again.
> > >
> > > There were several forks that I would have preferred but I settled for a new Pinarello fork. Funny thing is that the Pinarello fork doesn't break but the Specialized SL6 Tarmac that tapers out to 1 1/2" does. One of the major changes to the latest Specialized was to make the steering tube stouter.
> > Didn’t the frame came with a fork? Modern frames come as a frameset today. This includes a fork, headset and often a seatpost. This is what you get if you want a Canyon Aeroad frame instead of a complete bike:
> >
> > https://www.canyon.com/nl-nl/racefietsen/aero-racefietsen/aeroad/cfr/aeroad-cfr-disc-frame-and-brake-kit/3943.html?dwvar_3943_pv_rahmenfarbe=BK%2FBK
> Well, most of the frames being sold on Ebay have forks, but a surprisingly high percentage don't have forks.

In that case I would not trust the frame because offering a frame without a fork is suspicious.

Lou

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 8/10/2023 8:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> Over the next two weeks the Di2 components for the Ridley will be coming
>> in. I got the front derailleur today. I went down into the garage and
>> dug out the ProLite deep aluminum wheels ready to install the tubeless
>> Vittoria tires on when they come in. I would have bought the Rubino Pros
>> if they had been available but they weren't so I got the Corsa's. A
>> little worse wear but a better grip on the road.
>>
>> Tubeless simply because I'm going for lighter weight. But now that I
>> watch the road closer for broken bottles, the small punctures do seal themselves.
>>
>> There were several forks that I would have preferred but I settled for a
>> new Pinarello fork. Funny thing is that the Pinarello fork doesn't break
>> but the Specialized SL6 Tarmac that tapers out to 1 1/2" does. One of
>> the major changes to the latest Specialized was to make the steering tube stouter.
>>
>> While my Colnago C50 was not a light carbon bike it felt as solid as a
>> rock and was one of the better riding bikes I had. I have no intentions
>> of riding the Ridley to destruction so it will mainly be used in the
>> hard climbing rides like Mt Hamilton (4,000 feet in 7 miles) and this
>> time I will be sure to carry some power bars. Running out of nutrition
>> makes what should have been a nice ride into a slog.
>>
> Not clear to me at all.
>
> With same tire on same wheel, Michelin tube 65g and Torelli
> or Ritchey rim liner 15g vs heavier bolt-in valve, heavier
> tubeless rim liner and a couple ounces of latex (in Chalo
> Cholina's colorful description, 'frog snot').
>
> If you prefer tubeless, ride them but for road wheels
> 'tubeless for lighter weight' is probably not logical.
>
Well most weight saving aren’t bar I guess bragging rights, though inner
tubes unless one wants to go exotic ie thermoplastic will be heavier than
the sealant and valve, tubes are 125g valves are 20 something sealant 30/45
plus possibly slightly more heavy tape either way few grams.

Roger Merriman

On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 6:12:17 PM UTC+2, Roger Meriman wrote:
> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > On 8/10/2023 8:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> Over the next two weeks the Di2 components for the Ridley will be coming
> >> in. I got the front derailleur today. I went down into the garage and
> >> dug out the ProLite deep aluminum wheels ready to install the tubeless
> >> Vittoria tires on when they come in. I would have bought the Rubino Pros
> >> if they had been available but they weren't so I got the Corsa's. A
> >> little worse wear but a better grip on the road.
> >>
> >> Tubeless simply because I'm going for lighter weight. But now that I
> >> watch the road closer for broken bottles, the small punctures do seal themselves.
> >>
> >> There were several forks that I would have preferred but I settled for a
> >> new Pinarello fork. Funny thing is that the Pinarello fork doesn't break
> >> but the Specialized SL6 Tarmac that tapers out to 1 1/2" does. One of
> >> the major changes to the latest Specialized was to make the steering tube stouter.
> >>
> >> While my Colnago C50 was not a light carbon bike it felt as solid as a
> >> rock and was one of the better riding bikes I had. I have no intentions
> >> of riding the Ridley to destruction so it will mainly be used in the
> >> hard climbing rides like Mt Hamilton (4,000 feet in 7 miles) and this
> >> time I will be sure to carry some power bars. Running out of nutrition
> >> makes what should have been a nice ride into a slog.
> >>
> > Not clear to me at all.
> >
> > With same tire on same wheel, Michelin tube 65g and Torelli
> > or Ritchey rim liner 15g vs heavier bolt-in valve, heavier
> > tubeless rim liner and a couple ounces of latex (in Chalo
> > Cholina's colorful description, 'frog snot').
> >
> > If you prefer tubeless, ride them but for road wheels
> > 'tubeless for lighter weight' is probably not logical.
> >
> Well most weight saving aren’t bar I guess bragging rights, though inner
> tubes unless one wants to go exotic ie thermoplastic will be heavier than
> the sealant and valve, tubes are 125g valves are 20 something sealant 30/45
> plus possibly slightly more heavy tape either way few grams.
>
> Roger Merriman

If you want light weight you don’t put in 125 gr tubes. Don’t you have to renew that ‘frog snot’ from time to time? Were does the old snot go? Does it evaporate? You simply don’t put tubeless tires on and go to all that trouble for the weight savings. There is no weight saving.

Lou

On 8/10/2023 12:41 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 6:12:17 PM UTC+2, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> On 8/10/2023 8:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> Over the next two weeks the Di2 components for the Ridley will be coming
>>>> in. I got the front derailleur today. I went down into the garage and
>>>> dug out the ProLite deep aluminum wheels ready to install the tubeless
>>>> Vittoria tires on when they come in. I would have bought the Rubino Pros
>>>> if they had been available but they weren't so I got the Corsa's. A
>>>> little worse wear but a better grip on the road.
>>>>
>>>> Tubeless simply because I'm going for lighter weight. But now that I
>>>> watch the road closer for broken bottles, the small punctures do seal themselves.
>>>>
>>>> There were several forks that I would have preferred but I settled for a
>>>> new Pinarello fork. Funny thing is that the Pinarello fork doesn't break
>>>> but the Specialized SL6 Tarmac that tapers out to 1 1/2" does. One of
>>>> the major changes to the latest Specialized was to make the steering tube stouter.
>>>>
>>>> While my Colnago C50 was not a light carbon bike it felt as solid as a
>>>> rock and was one of the better riding bikes I had. I have no intentions
>>>> of riding the Ridley to destruction so it will mainly be used in the
>>>> hard climbing rides like Mt Hamilton (4,000 feet in 7 miles) and this
>>>> time I will be sure to carry some power bars. Running out of nutrition
>>>> makes what should have been a nice ride into a slog.
>>>>
>>> Not clear to me at all.
>>>
>>> With same tire on same wheel, Michelin tube 65g and Torelli
>>> or Ritchey rim liner 15g vs heavier bolt-in valve, heavier
>>> tubeless rim liner and a couple ounces of latex (in Chalo
>>> Cholina's colorful description, 'frog snot').
>>>
>>> If you prefer tubeless, ride them but for road wheels
>>> 'tubeless for lighter weight' is probably not logical.
>>>
>> Well most weight saving aren’t bar I guess bragging rights, though inner
>> tubes unless one wants to go exotic ie thermoplastic will be heavier than
>> the sealant and valve, tubes are 125g valves are 20 something sealant 30/45
>> plus possibly slightly more heavy tape either way few grams.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> If you want light weight you don’t put in 125 gr tubes. Don’t you have to renew that ‘frog snot’ from time to time? Were does the old snot go? Does it evaporate? You simply don’t put tubeless tires on and go to all that trouble for the weight savings. There is no weight saving.
>
> Lou
>

+1
There are applications for which tubeless has distinct
advantages.

Saving weight on road wheels is not one of them.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 10:41:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 6:12:17 PM UTC+2, Roger Meriman wrote:
> > AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > > On 8/10/2023 8:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >> Over the next two weeks the Di2 components for the Ridley will be coming
> > >> in. I got the front derailleur today. I went down into the garage and
> > >> dug out the ProLite deep aluminum wheels ready to install the tubeless
> > >> Vittoria tires on when they come in. I would have bought the Rubino Pros
> > >> if they had been available but they weren't so I got the Corsa's. A
> > >> little worse wear but a better grip on the road.
> > >>
> > >> Tubeless simply because I'm going for lighter weight. But now that I
> > >> watch the road closer for broken bottles, the small punctures do seal themselves.
> > >>
> > >> There were several forks that I would have preferred but I settled for a
> > >> new Pinarello fork. Funny thing is that the Pinarello fork doesn't break
> > >> but the Specialized SL6 Tarmac that tapers out to 1 1/2" does. One of
> > >> the major changes to the latest Specialized was to make the steering tube stouter.
> > >>
> > >> While my Colnago C50 was not a light carbon bike it felt as solid as a
> > >> rock and was one of the better riding bikes I had. I have no intentions
> > >> of riding the Ridley to destruction so it will mainly be used in the
> > >> hard climbing rides like Mt Hamilton (4,000 feet in 7 miles) and this
> > >> time I will be sure to carry some power bars. Running out of nutrition
> > >> makes what should have been a nice ride into a slog.
> > >>
> > > Not clear to me at all.
> > >
> > > With same tire on same wheel, Michelin tube 65g and Torelli
> > > or Ritchey rim liner 15g vs heavier bolt-in valve, heavier
> > > tubeless rim liner and a couple ounces of latex (in Chalo
> > > Cholina's colorful description, 'frog snot').
> > >
> > > If you prefer tubeless, ride them but for road wheels
> > > 'tubeless for lighter weight' is probably not logical.
> > >
> > Well most weight saving aren’t bar I guess bragging rights, though inner
> > tubes unless one wants to go exotic ie thermoplastic will be heavier than
> > the sealant and valve, tubes are 125g valves are 20 something sealant 30/45
> > plus possibly slightly more heavy tape either way few grams.
> >
> > Roger Merriman
> If you want light weight you don’t put in 125 gr tubes. Don’t you have to renew that ‘frog snot’ from time to time? Were does the old snot go? Does it evaporate? You simply don’t put tubeless tires on and go to all that trouble for the weight savings. There is no weight saving.
>
> Lou
I just had to renew the sealant. Don't ask me where the initial sealant went because it wasn't in the tire. And it didn't leak out around the tire through imperfections in the rim.

On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 11:57:27 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/10/2023 12:41 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 6:12:17 PM UTC+2, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>> On 8/10/2023 8:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> Over the next two weeks the Di2 components for the Ridley will be coming
> >>>> in. I got the front derailleur today. I went down into the garage and
> >>>> dug out the ProLite deep aluminum wheels ready to install the tubeless
> >>>> Vittoria tires on when they come in. I would have bought the Rubino Pros
> >>>> if they had been available but they weren't so I got the Corsa's. A
> >>>> little worse wear but a better grip on the road.
> >>>>
> >>>> Tubeless simply because I'm going for lighter weight. But now that I
> >>>> watch the road closer for broken bottles, the small punctures do seal themselves.
> >>>>
> >>>> There were several forks that I would have preferred but I settled for a
> >>>> new Pinarello fork. Funny thing is that the Pinarello fork doesn't break
> >>>> but the Specialized SL6 Tarmac that tapers out to 1 1/2" does. One of
> >>>> the major changes to the latest Specialized was to make the steering tube stouter.
> >>>>
> >>>> While my Colnago C50 was not a light carbon bike it felt as solid as a
> >>>> rock and was one of the better riding bikes I had. I have no intentions
> >>>> of riding the Ridley to destruction so it will mainly be used in the
> >>>> hard climbing rides like Mt Hamilton (4,000 feet in 7 miles) and this
> >>>> time I will be sure to carry some power bars. Running out of nutrition
> >>>> makes what should have been a nice ride into a slog.
> >>>>
> >>> Not clear to me at all.
> >>>
> >>> With same tire on same wheel, Michelin tube 65g and Torelli
> >>> or Ritchey rim liner 15g vs heavier bolt-in valve, heavier
> >>> tubeless rim liner and a couple ounces of latex (in Chalo
> >>> Cholina's colorful description, 'frog snot').
> >>>
> >>> If you prefer tubeless, ride them but for road wheels
> >>> 'tubeless for lighter weight' is probably not logical.
> >>>
> >> Well most weight saving aren’t bar I guess bragging rights, though inner
> >> tubes unless one wants to go exotic ie thermoplastic will be heavier than
> >> the sealant and valve, tubes are 125g valves are 20 something sealant 30/45
> >> plus possibly slightly more heavy tape either way few grams.
> >>
> >> Roger Merriman
> >
> > If you want light weight you don’t put in 125 gr tubes. Don’t you have to renew that ‘frog snot’ from time to time? Were does the old snot go? Does it evaporate? You simply don’t put tubeless tires on and go to all that trouble for the weight savings. There is no weight saving.
> >
> > Lou
> >
>
> +1
> There are applications for which tubeless has distinct
> advantages.
>
> Saving weight on road wheels is not one of them.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I probably have to agree with you. Silca implies that a tire with a latex tube and a tubeless tire weigh about the same.

Lou Holtman <lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 6:12:17 PM UTC+2, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> On 8/10/2023 8:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> Over the next two weeks the Di2 components for the Ridley will be coming
>>>> in. I got the front derailleur today. I went down into the garage and
>>>> dug out the ProLite deep aluminum wheels ready to install the tubeless
>>>> Vittoria tires on when they come in. I would have bought the Rubino Pros
>>>> if they had been available but they weren't so I got the Corsa's. A
>>>> little worse wear but a better grip on the road.
>>>>
>>>> Tubeless simply because I'm going for lighter weight. But now that I
>>>> watch the road closer for broken bottles, the small punctures do seal themselves.
>>>>
>>>> There were several forks that I would have preferred but I settled for a
>>>> new Pinarello fork. Funny thing is that the Pinarello fork doesn't break
>>>> but the Specialized SL6 Tarmac that tapers out to 1 1/2" does. One of
>>>> the major changes to the latest Specialized was to make the steering tube stouter.
>>>>
>>>> While my Colnago C50 was not a light carbon bike it felt as solid as a
>>>> rock and was one of the better riding bikes I had. I have no intentions
>>>> of riding the Ridley to destruction so it will mainly be used in the
>>>> hard climbing rides like Mt Hamilton (4,000 feet in 7 miles) and this
>>>> time I will be sure to carry some power bars. Running out of nutrition
>>>> makes what should have been a nice ride into a slog.
>>>>
>>> Not clear to me at all.
>>>
>>> With same tire on same wheel, Michelin tube 65g and Torelli
>>> or Ritchey rim liner 15g vs heavier bolt-in valve, heavier
>>> tubeless rim liner and a couple ounces of latex (in Chalo
>>> Cholina's colorful description, 'frog snot').
>>>
>>> If you prefer tubeless, ride them but for road wheels
>>> 'tubeless for lighter weight' is probably not logical.
>>>
>> Well most weight saving aren’t bar I guess bragging rights, though inner
>> tubes unless one wants to go exotic ie thermoplastic will be heavier than
>> the sealant and valve, tubes are 125g valves are 20 something sealant 30/45
>> plus possibly slightly more heavy tape either way few grams.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> If you want light weight you don’t put in 125 gr tubes. Don’t you have to
> renew that ‘frog snot’ from time to time? Were does the old snot go?
> Does it evaporate? You simply don’t put tubeless tires on and go to all
> that trouble for the weight savings. There is no weight saving.
>
> Lou
>
You do need to remove and replace the sealant yes.

For absolute lightest thermoplastic tubes are where it’s at which are very
light and expensive and they will work out at about the same weight as
sealant and valve. Possibly slightly lighter, depending on amount of
sealant. But slower rolling resistance apparently on the drum.

Latex though the only tubes able to compete on drum tests with tubeless ie
slower but by so little but they do loose air, and expensive and yes
heavier than tubeless.

Same for lightweight butyl which are broadly in latex tube weights.

Essentially unless you want to use TPU tubeless is lighter though we are
talking what 20grams or so difference between lightweight tubes Butyl/Latex
so well into marginal gains for weight!

Roger Merriman

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 9:15:25 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 6:12:17 PM UTC+2, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>> On 8/10/2023 8:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> Over the next two weeks the Di2 components for the Ridley will be coming
> >>>> in. I got the front derailleur today. I went down into the garage and
> >>>> dug out the ProLite deep aluminum wheels ready to install the tubeless
> >>>> Vittoria tires on when they come in. I would have bought the Rubino Pros
> >>>> if they had been available but they weren't so I got the Corsa's. A
> >>>> little worse wear but a better grip on the road.
> >>>>
> >>>> Tubeless simply because I'm going for lighter weight. But now that I
> >>>> watch the road closer for broken bottles, the small punctures do seal themselves.
> >>>>
> >>>> There were several forks that I would have preferred but I settled for a
> >>>> new Pinarello fork. Funny thing is that the Pinarello fork doesn't break
> >>>> but the Specialized SL6 Tarmac that tapers out to 1 1/2" does. One of
> >>>> the major changes to the latest Specialized was to make the steering tube stouter.
> >>>>
> >>>> While my Colnago C50 was not a light carbon bike it felt as solid as a
> >>>> rock and was one of the better riding bikes I had. I have no intentions
> >>>> of riding the Ridley to destruction so it will mainly be used in the
> >>>> hard climbing rides like Mt Hamilton (4,000 feet in 7 miles) and this
> >>>> time I will be sure to carry some power bars. Running out of nutrition
> >>>> makes what should have been a nice ride into a slog.
> >>>>
> >>> Not clear to me at all.
> >>>
> >>> With same tire on same wheel, Michelin tube 65g and Torelli
> >>> or Ritchey rim liner 15g vs heavier bolt-in valve, heavier
> >>> tubeless rim liner and a couple ounces of latex (in Chalo
> >>> Cholina's colorful description, 'frog snot').
> >>>
> >>> If you prefer tubeless, ride them but for road wheels
> >>> 'tubeless for lighter weight' is probably not logical.
> >>>
> >> Well most weight saving aren’t bar I guess bragging rights, though inner
> >> tubes unless one wants to go exotic ie thermoplastic will be heavier than
> >> the sealant and valve, tubes are 125g valves are 20 something sealant 30/45
> >> plus possibly slightly more heavy tape either way few grams.
> >>
> >> Roger Merriman
> >
> > If you want light weight you don’t put in 125 gr tubes. Don’t you have to
> > renew that ‘frog snot’ from time to time? Were does the old snot go?
> > Does it evaporate? You simply don’t put tubeless tires on and go to all
> > that trouble for the weight savings. There is no weight saving.
> >
> > Lou
> >
> You do need to remove and replace the sealant yes.
>
> For absolute lightest thermoplastic tubes are where it’s at which are very
> light and expensive and they will work out at about the same weight as
> sealant and valve. Possibly slightly lighter, depending on amount of
> sealant. But slower rolling resistance apparently on the drum.
>
> Latex though the only tubes able to compete on drum tests with tubeless ie
> slower but by so little but they do loose air, and expensive and yes
> heavier than tubeless.
>
> Same for lightweight butyl which are broadly in latex tube weights.
>
> Essentially unless you want to use TPU tubeless is lighter though we are
> talking what 20grams or so difference between lightweight tubes Butyl/Latex
> so well into marginal gains for weight!

The big advantage of tubeless is they don't get pinch flats and if you've ever been 20 miles from home and gotten a pinch flat and used your last tube and CO2 you know how worried you can get about pinch flats.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 9:15:25 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 6:12:17 PM UTC+2, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 8/10/2023 8:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> Over the next two weeks the Di2 components for the Ridley will be coming
>>>>>> in. I got the front derailleur today. I went down into the garage and
>>>>>> dug out the ProLite deep aluminum wheels ready to install the tubeless
>>>>>> Vittoria tires on when they come in. I would have bought the Rubino Pros
>>>>>> if they had been available but they weren't so I got the Corsa's. A
>>>>>> little worse wear but a better grip on the road.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tubeless simply because I'm going for lighter weight. But now that I
>>>>>> watch the road closer for broken bottles, the small punctures do seal themselves.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There were several forks that I would have preferred but I settled for a
>>>>>> new Pinarello fork. Funny thing is that the Pinarello fork doesn't break
>>>>>> but the Specialized SL6 Tarmac that tapers out to 1 1/2" does. One of
>>>>>> the major changes to the latest Specialized was to make the steering tube stouter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While my Colnago C50 was not a light carbon bike it felt as solid as a
>>>>>> rock and was one of the better riding bikes I had. I have no intentions
>>>>>> of riding the Ridley to destruction so it will mainly be used in the
>>>>>> hard climbing rides like Mt Hamilton (4,000 feet in 7 miles) and this
>>>>>> time I will be sure to carry some power bars. Running out of nutrition
>>>>>> makes what should have been a nice ride into a slog.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Not clear to me at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> With same tire on same wheel, Michelin tube 65g and Torelli
>>>>> or Ritchey rim liner 15g vs heavier bolt-in valve, heavier
>>>>> tubeless rim liner and a couple ounces of latex (in Chalo
>>>>> Cholina's colorful description, 'frog snot').
>>>>>
>>>>> If you prefer tubeless, ride them but for road wheels
>>>>> 'tubeless for lighter weight' is probably not logical.
>>>>>
>>>> Well most weight saving aren’t bar I guess bragging rights, though inner
>>>> tubes unless one wants to go exotic ie thermoplastic will be heavier than
>>>> the sealant and valve, tubes are 125g valves are 20 something sealant 30/45
>>>> plus possibly slightly more heavy tape either way few grams.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> If you want light weight you don’t put in 125 gr tubes. Don’t you have to
>>> renew that ‘frog snot’ from time to time? Were does the old snot go?
>>> Does it evaporate? You simply don’t put tubeless tires on and go to all
>>> that trouble for the weight savings. There is no weight saving.
>>>
>>> Lou
>>>
>> You do need to remove and replace the sealant yes.
>>
>> For absolute lightest thermoplastic tubes are where it’s at which are very
>> light and expensive and they will work out at about the same weight as
>> sealant and valve. Possibly slightly lighter, depending on amount of
>> sealant. But slower rolling resistance apparently on the drum.
>>
>> Latex though the only tubes able to compete on drum tests with tubeless ie
>> slower but by so little but they do loose air, and expensive and yes
>> heavier than tubeless.
>>
>> Same for lightweight butyl which are broadly in latex tube weights.
>>
>> Essentially unless you want to use TPU tubeless is lighter though we are
>> talking what 20grams or so difference between lightweight tubes Butyl/Latex
>> so well into marginal gains for weight!
>
> The big advantage of tubeless is they don't get pinch flats and if you've
> ever been 20 miles from home and gotten a pinch flat and used your last
> tube and CO2 you know how worried you can get about pinch flats.
>
Can’t say on the road had many pinch flats, for road I’d probably go tubes
though depends on the type of riding, ie Sunday best club runs tubes all
day.

Gritty lanes mid winter? Tubeless sounds more appealing or rather fixing a
puncture in the falling light in the rain in a wet gritty lane doesn’t
appeal! Though I used to average 2 a year.

Roger Merriman

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 6:45:32 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 9:15:25 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> > Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 6:12:17 PM UTC+2, Roger Meriman wrote:
> > >> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > >>> On 8/10/2023 8:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>>> Over the next two weeks the Di2 components for the Ridley will be coming
> > >>>> in. I got the front derailleur today. I went down into the garage and
> > >>>> dug out the ProLite deep aluminum wheels ready to install the tubeless
> > >>>> Vittoria tires on when they come in. I would have bought the Rubino Pros
> > >>>> if they had been available but they weren't so I got the Corsa's. A
> > >>>> little worse wear but a better grip on the road.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Tubeless simply because I'm going for lighter weight. But now that I
> > >>>> watch the road closer for broken bottles, the small punctures do seal themselves.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> There were several forks that I would have preferred but I settled for a
> > >>>> new Pinarello fork. Funny thing is that the Pinarello fork doesn't break
> > >>>> but the Specialized SL6 Tarmac that tapers out to 1 1/2" does. One of
> > >>>> the major changes to the latest Specialized was to make the steering tube stouter.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> While my Colnago C50 was not a light carbon bike it felt as solid as a
> > >>>> rock and was one of the better riding bikes I had. I have no intentions
> > >>>> of riding the Ridley to destruction so it will mainly be used in the
> > >>>> hard climbing rides like Mt Hamilton (4,000 feet in 7 miles) and this
> > >>>> time I will be sure to carry some power bars. Running out of nutrition
> > >>>> makes what should have been a nice ride into a slog.
> > >>>>
> > >>> Not clear to me at all.
> > >>>
> > >>> With same tire on same wheel, Michelin tube 65g and Torelli
> > >>> or Ritchey rim liner 15g vs heavier bolt-in valve, heavier
> > >>> tubeless rim liner and a couple ounces of latex (in Chalo
> > >>> Cholina's colorful description, 'frog snot').
> > >>>
> > >>> If you prefer tubeless, ride them but for road wheels
> > >>> 'tubeless for lighter weight' is probably not logical.
> > >>>
> > >> Well most weight saving aren’t bar I guess bragging rights, though inner
> > >> tubes unless one wants to go exotic ie thermoplastic will be heavier than
> > >> the sealant and valve, tubes are 125g valves are 20 something sealant 30/45
> > >> plus possibly slightly more heavy tape either way few grams.
> > >>
> > >> Roger Merriman
> > >
> > > If you want light weight you don’t put in 125 gr tubes. Don’t you have to
> > > renew that ‘frog snot’ from time to time? Were does the old snot go?
> > > Does it evaporate? You simply don’t put tubeless tires on and go to all
> > > that trouble for the weight savings. There is no weight saving.
> > >
> > > Lou
> > >
> > You do need to remove and replace the sealant yes.
> >
> > For absolute lightest thermoplastic tubes are where it’s at which are very
> > light and expensive and they will work out at about the same weight as
> > sealant and valve. Possibly slightly lighter, depending on amount of
> > sealant. But slower rolling resistance apparently on the drum.
> >
> > Latex though the only tubes able to compete on drum tests with tubeless ie
> > slower but by so little but they do loose air, and expensive and yes
> > heavier than tubeless.
> >
> > Same for lightweight butyl which are broadly in latex tube weights.
> >
> > Essentially unless you want to use TPU tubeless is lighter though we are
> > talking what 20grams or so difference between lightweight tubes Butyl/Latex
> > so well into marginal gains for weight!
> The big advantage of tubeless is they don't get pinch flats and if you've ever been 20 miles from home and gotten a pinch flat and used your last tube and CO2 you know how worried you can get about pinch flats.

Can’t remember my last pinchflat, but hey everyone is welcome to go tubeless. As long as good clicher tires are available I won’t complain.

Lou

On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 10:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
<lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 6:45:32?PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 9:15:25?AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> > Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 6:12:17?PM UTC+2, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> > >> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> > >>> On 8/10/2023 8:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > >>>> Over the next two weeks the Di2 components for the Ridley will be coming
>> > >>>> in. I got the front derailleur today. I went down into the garage and
>> > >>>> dug out the ProLite deep aluminum wheels ready to install the tubeless
>> > >>>> Vittoria tires on when they come in. I would have bought the Rubino Pros
>> > >>>> if they had been available but they weren't so I got the Corsa's. A
>> > >>>> little worse wear but a better grip on the road.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Tubeless simply because I'm going for lighter weight. But now that I
>> > >>>> watch the road closer for broken bottles, the small punctures do seal themselves.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> There were several forks that I would have preferred but I settled for a
>> > >>>> new Pinarello fork. Funny thing is that the Pinarello fork doesn't break
>> > >>>> but the Specialized SL6 Tarmac that tapers out to 1 1/2" does. One of
>> > >>>> the major changes to the latest Specialized was to make the steering tube stouter.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> While my Colnago C50 was not a light carbon bike it felt as solid as a
>> > >>>> rock and was one of the better riding bikes I had. I have no intentions
>> > >>>> of riding the Ridley to destruction so it will mainly be used in the
>> > >>>> hard climbing rides like Mt Hamilton (4,000 feet in 7 miles) and this
>> > >>>> time I will be sure to carry some power bars. Running out of nutrition
>> > >>>> makes what should have been a nice ride into a slog.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>> Not clear to me at all.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> With same tire on same wheel, Michelin tube 65g and Torelli
>> > >>> or Ritchey rim liner 15g vs heavier bolt-in valve, heavier
>> > >>> tubeless rim liner and a couple ounces of latex (in Chalo
>> > >>> Cholina's colorful description, 'frog snot').
>> > >>>
>> > >>> If you prefer tubeless, ride them but for road wheels
>> > >>> 'tubeless for lighter weight' is probably not logical.
>> > >>>
>> > >> Well most weight saving aren’t bar I guess bragging rights, though inner
>> > >> tubes unless one wants to go exotic ie thermoplastic will be heavier than
>> > >> the sealant and valve, tubes are 125g valves are 20 something sealant 30/45
>> > >> plus possibly slightly more heavy tape either way few grams.
>> > >>
>> > >> Roger Merriman
>> > >
>> > > If you want light weight you don’t put in 125 gr tubes. Don’t you have to
>> > > renew that ‘frog snot’ from time to time? Were does the old snot go?
>> > > Does it evaporate? You simply don’t put tubeless tires on and go to all
>> > > that trouble for the weight savings. There is no weight saving.
>> > >
>> > > Lou
>> > >
>> > You do need to remove and replace the sealant yes.
>> >
>> > For absolute lightest thermoplastic tubes are where it’s at which are very
>> > light and expensive and they will work out at about the same weight as
>> > sealant and valve. Possibly slightly lighter, depending on amount of
>> > sealant. But slower rolling resistance apparently on the drum.
>> >
>> > Latex though the only tubes able to compete on drum tests with tubeless ie
>> > slower but by so little but they do loose air, and expensive and yes
>> > heavier than tubeless.
>> >
>> > Same for lightweight butyl which are broadly in latex tube weights.
>> >
>> > Essentially unless you want to use TPU tubeless is lighter though we are
>> > talking what 20grams or so difference between lightweight tubes Butyl/Latex
>> > so well into marginal gains for weight!
>> The big advantage of tubeless is they don't get pinch flats and if you've ever been 20 miles from home and gotten a pinch flat and used your last tube and CO2 you know how worried you can get about pinch flats.
>
>Can’t remember my last pinchflat, but hey everyone is welcome to go tubeless. As long as good clicher tires are available I won’t complain.
>
>Lou

+1

On 8/11/2023 12:45 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> The big advantage of tubeless is they don't get pinch flats and if you've ever been 20 miles from home and gotten a pinch flat and used your last tube and CO2 you know how worried you can get about pinch flats.

If only they would invent a portable tire pump!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 9:54:27 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 9:15:25 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 6:12:17 PM UTC+2, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>>> On 8/10/2023 8:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>> Over the next two weeks the Di2 components for the Ridley will be coming
> >>>>>> in. I got the front derailleur today. I went down into the garage and
> >>>>>> dug out the ProLite deep aluminum wheels ready to install the tubeless
> >>>>>> Vittoria tires on when they come in. I would have bought the Rubino Pros
> >>>>>> if they had been available but they weren't so I got the Corsa's. A
> >>>>>> little worse wear but a better grip on the road.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Tubeless simply because I'm going for lighter weight. But now that I
> >>>>>> watch the road closer for broken bottles, the small punctures do seal themselves.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There were several forks that I would have preferred but I settled for a
> >>>>>> new Pinarello fork. Funny thing is that the Pinarello fork doesn't break
> >>>>>> but the Specialized SL6 Tarmac that tapers out to 1 1/2" does. One of
> >>>>>> the major changes to the latest Specialized was to make the steering tube stouter.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> While my Colnago C50 was not a light carbon bike it felt as solid as a
> >>>>>> rock and was one of the better riding bikes I had. I have no intentions
> >>>>>> of riding the Ridley to destruction so it will mainly be used in the
> >>>>>> hard climbing rides like Mt Hamilton (4,000 feet in 7 miles) and this
> >>>>>> time I will be sure to carry some power bars. Running out of nutrition
> >>>>>> makes what should have been a nice ride into a slog.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Not clear to me at all.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> With same tire on same wheel, Michelin tube 65g and Torelli
> >>>>> or Ritchey rim liner 15g vs heavier bolt-in valve, heavier
> >>>>> tubeless rim liner and a couple ounces of latex (in Chalo
> >>>>> Cholina's colorful description, 'frog snot').
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you prefer tubeless, ride them but for road wheels
> >>>>> 'tubeless for lighter weight' is probably not logical.
> >>>>>
> >>>> Well most weight saving aren’t bar I guess bragging rights, though inner
> >>>> tubes unless one wants to go exotic ie thermoplastic will be heavier than
> >>>> the sealant and valve, tubes are 125g valves are 20 something sealant 30/45
> >>>> plus possibly slightly more heavy tape either way few grams.
> >>>>
> >>>> Roger Merriman
> >>>
> >>> If you want light weight you don’t put in 125 gr tubes. Don’t you have to
> >>> renew that ‘frog snot’ from time to time? Were does the old snot go?
> >>> Does it evaporate? You simply don’t put tubeless tires on and go to all
> >>> that trouble for the weight savings. There is no weight saving.
> >>>
> >>> Lou
> >>>
> >> You do need to remove and replace the sealant yes.
> >>
> >> For absolute lightest thermoplastic tubes are where it’s at which are very
> >> light and expensive and they will work out at about the same weight as
> >> sealant and valve. Possibly slightly lighter, depending on amount of
> >> sealant. But slower rolling resistance apparently on the drum.
> >>
> >> Latex though the only tubes able to compete on drum tests with tubeless ie
> >> slower but by so little but they do loose air, and expensive and yes
> >> heavier than tubeless.
> >>
> >> Same for lightweight butyl which are broadly in latex tube weights.
> >>
> >> Essentially unless you want to use TPU tubeless is lighter though we are
> >> talking what 20grams or so difference between lightweight tubes Butyl/Latex
> >> so well into marginal gains for weight!
> >
> > The big advantage of tubeless is they don't get pinch flats and if you've
> > ever been 20 miles from home and gotten a pinch flat and used your last
> > tube and CO2 you know how worried you can get about pinch flats.
> >
> Can’t say on the road had many pinch flats, for road I’d probably go tubes
> though depends on the type of riding, ie Sunday best club runs tubes all
> day.
>
> Gritty lanes mid winter? Tubeless sounds more appealing or rather fixing a
> puncture in the falling light in the rain in a wet gritty lane doesn’t
> appeal! Though I used to average 2 a year.
>
> Roger Merriman

I used tubeless for quite some time and then since I wasn't getting flats I figured I didn't need them. And on new tires you don't. But it doesn't take much wear before tubeless makes more sense.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 10:02:25 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 6:45:32 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 9:15:25 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> > > Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 6:12:17 PM UTC+2, Roger Meriman wrote:
> > > >> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > > >>> On 8/10/2023 8:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > >>>> Over the next two weeks the Di2 components for the Ridley will be coming
> > > >>>> in. I got the front derailleur today. I went down into the garage and
> > > >>>> dug out the ProLite deep aluminum wheels ready to install the tubeless
> > > >>>> Vittoria tires on when they come in. I would have bought the Rubino Pros
> > > >>>> if they had been available but they weren't so I got the Corsa's.. A
> > > >>>> little worse wear but a better grip on the road.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Tubeless simply because I'm going for lighter weight. But now that I
> > > >>>> watch the road closer for broken bottles, the small punctures do seal themselves.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> There were several forks that I would have preferred but I settled for a
> > > >>>> new Pinarello fork. Funny thing is that the Pinarello fork doesn't break
> > > >>>> but the Specialized SL6 Tarmac that tapers out to 1 1/2" does. One of
> > > >>>> the major changes to the latest Specialized was to make the steering tube stouter.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> While my Colnago C50 was not a light carbon bike it felt as solid as a
> > > >>>> rock and was one of the better riding bikes I had. I have no intentions
> > > >>>> of riding the Ridley to destruction so it will mainly be used in the
> > > >>>> hard climbing rides like Mt Hamilton (4,000 feet in 7 miles) and this
> > > >>>> time I will be sure to carry some power bars. Running out of nutrition
> > > >>>> makes what should have been a nice ride into a slog.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>> Not clear to me at all.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> With same tire on same wheel, Michelin tube 65g and Torelli
> > > >>> or Ritchey rim liner 15g vs heavier bolt-in valve, heavier
> > > >>> tubeless rim liner and a couple ounces of latex (in Chalo
> > > >>> Cholina's colorful description, 'frog snot').
> > > >>>
> > > >>> If you prefer tubeless, ride them but for road wheels
> > > >>> 'tubeless for lighter weight' is probably not logical.
> > > >>>
> > > >> Well most weight saving aren’t bar I guess bragging rights, though inner
> > > >> tubes unless one wants to go exotic ie thermoplastic will be heavier than
> > > >> the sealant and valve, tubes are 125g valves are 20 something sealant 30/45
> > > >> plus possibly slightly more heavy tape either way few grams.
> > > >>
> > > >> Roger Merriman
> > > >
> > > > If you want light weight you don’t put in 125 gr tubes. Don’t you have to
> > > > renew that ‘frog snot’ from time to time? Were does the old snot go?
> > > > Does it evaporate? You simply don’t put tubeless tires on and go to all
> > > > that trouble for the weight savings. There is no weight saving.
> > > >
> > > > Lou
> > > >
> > > You do need to remove and replace the sealant yes.
> > >
> > > For absolute lightest thermoplastic tubes are where it’s at which are very
> > > light and expensive and they will work out at about the same weight as
> > > sealant and valve. Possibly slightly lighter, depending on amount of
> > > sealant. But slower rolling resistance apparently on the drum.
> > >
> > > Latex though the only tubes able to compete on drum tests with tubeless ie
> > > slower but by so little but they do loose air, and expensive and yes
> > > heavier than tubeless.
> > >
> > > Same for lightweight butyl which are broadly in latex tube weights.
> > >
> > > Essentially unless you want to use TPU tubeless is lighter though we are
> > > talking what 20grams or so difference between lightweight tubes Butyl/Latex
> > > so well into marginal gains for weight!
> > The big advantage of tubeless is they don't get pinch flats and if you've ever been 20 miles from home and gotten a pinch flat and used your last tube and CO2 you know how worried you can get about pinch flats.
> Can’t remember my last pinchflat, but hey everyone is welcome to go tubeless. As long as good clicher tires are available I won’t complain.
>
> Lou

One week after I said that on here I rode over the RR tracks four blocks from here and pinch flatted both wheels. Good thing it was a short walk home.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 2:09:01 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 8/11/2023 12:45 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> > The big advantage of tubeless is they don't get pinch flats and if you've ever been 20 miles from home and gotten a pinch flat and used your last tube and CO2 you know how worried you can get about pinch flats.
> If only they would invent a portable tire pump!
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

We understand that you ride with saddlebags and multiple spare parts for every occasion. I don't and won't

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 9:54:27 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 9:15:25 AM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 6:12:17 PM UTC+2, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/10/2023 8:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>> Over the next two weeks the Di2 components for the Ridley will be coming
>>>>>>>> in. I got the front derailleur today. I went down into the garage and
>>>>>>>> dug out the ProLite deep aluminum wheels ready to install the tubeless
>>>>>>>> Vittoria tires on when they come in. I would have bought the Rubino Pros
>>>>>>>> if they had been available but they weren't so I got the Corsa's. A
>>>>>>>> little worse wear but a better grip on the road.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tubeless simply because I'm going for lighter weight. But now that I
>>>>>>>> watch the road closer for broken bottles, the small punctures do seal themselves.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There were several forks that I would have preferred but I settled for a
>>>>>>>> new Pinarello fork. Funny thing is that the Pinarello fork doesn't break
>>>>>>>> but the Specialized SL6 Tarmac that tapers out to 1 1/2" does. One of
>>>>>>>> the major changes to the latest Specialized was to make the steering tube stouter.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While my Colnago C50 was not a light carbon bike it felt as solid as a
>>>>>>>> rock and was one of the better riding bikes I had. I have no intentions
>>>>>>>> of riding the Ridley to destruction so it will mainly be used in the
>>>>>>>> hard climbing rides like Mt Hamilton (4,000 feet in 7 miles) and this
>>>>>>>> time I will be sure to carry some power bars. Running out of nutrition
>>>>>>>> makes what should have been a nice ride into a slog.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not clear to me at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With same tire on same wheel, Michelin tube 65g and Torelli
>>>>>>> or Ritchey rim liner 15g vs heavier bolt-in valve, heavier
>>>>>>> tubeless rim liner and a couple ounces of latex (in Chalo
>>>>>>> Cholina's colorful description, 'frog snot').
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you prefer tubeless, ride them but for road wheels
>>>>>>> 'tubeless for lighter weight' is probably not logical.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well most weight saving aren’t bar I guess bragging rights, though inner
>>>>>> tubes unless one wants to go exotic ie thermoplastic will be heavier than
>>>>>> the sealant and valve, tubes are 125g valves are 20 something sealant 30/45
>>>>>> plus possibly slightly more heavy tape either way few grams.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want light weight you don’t put in 125 gr tubes. Don’t you have to
>>>>> renew that ‘frog snot’ from time to time? Were does the old snot go?
>>>>> Does it evaporate? You simply don’t put tubeless tires on and go to all
>>>>> that trouble for the weight savings. There is no weight saving.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lou
>>>>>
>>>> You do need to remove and replace the sealant yes.
>>>>
>>>> For absolute lightest thermoplastic tubes are where it’s at which are very
>>>> light and expensive and they will work out at about the same weight as
>>>> sealant and valve. Possibly slightly lighter, depending on amount of
>>>> sealant. But slower rolling resistance apparently on the drum.
>>>>
>>>> Latex though the only tubes able to compete on drum tests with tubeless ie
>>>> slower but by so little but they do loose air, and expensive and yes
>>>> heavier than tubeless.
>>>>
>>>> Same for lightweight butyl which are broadly in latex tube weights.
>>>>
>>>> Essentially unless you want to use TPU tubeless is lighter though we are
>>>> talking what 20grams or so difference between lightweight tubes Butyl/Latex
>>>> so well into marginal gains for weight!
>>>
>>> The big advantage of tubeless is they don't get pinch flats and if you've
>>> ever been 20 miles from home and gotten a pinch flat and used your last
>>> tube and CO2 you know how worried you can get about pinch flats.
>>>
>> Can’t say on the road had many pinch flats, for road I’d probably go tubes
>> though depends on the type of riding, ie Sunday best club runs tubes all
>> day.
>>
>> Gritty lanes mid winter? Tubeless sounds more appealing or rather fixing a
>> puncture in the falling light in the rain in a wet gritty lane doesn’t
>> appeal! Though I used to average 2 a year.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> I used tubeless for quite some time and then since I wasn't getting flats
> I figured I didn't need them. And on new tires you don't. But it doesn't
> take much wear before tubeless makes more sense.
>

For the gravel bike it’s really solved multiples punctures from well the
gravel!

On the road bikes, I used to run the tires mosty training type so stuff
like conti 4 seasons which would last maybe 2k on the rear and get maybe 2
punctures per year so generally not a huge problem.

The advantages seem less so for road, mind you I’ve not bothered for the
MTB as well tubes just work and I can’t be bothered with the maintenance,
where as with the Gravel bike which has had multiple independent punctures
before now on one ride it’s the easier system to live with.

Roger Merriman

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 5:15:45 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 2:09:01 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 8/11/2023 12:45 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >
> > > The big advantage of tubeless is they don't get pinch flats and if you've ever been 20 miles from home and gotten a pinch flat and used your last tube and CO2 you know how worried you can get about pinch flats.
> > If only they would invent a portable tire pump!
> >
> > --
> > - Frank Krygowski
> We understand that you ride with saddlebags and multiple spare parts for every occasion. I don't and won't

That's fine, do what you like. I wouldn't like to walk my bikes home, and I've never had to.

- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 7:00:44 PM UTC-4, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I used tubeless for quite some time and then since I wasn't getting flats
> > I figured I didn't need them. And on new tires you don't. But it doesn't
> > take much wear before tubeless makes more sense.
> >
> For the gravel bike it’s really solved multiples punctures from well the
> gravel!
>
> On the road bikes, I used to run the tires mosty training type so stuff
> like conti 4 seasons which would last maybe 2k on the rear and get maybe 2
> punctures per year so generally not a huge problem.
>
> The advantages seem less so for road, mind you I’ve not bothered for the
> MTB as well tubes just work and I can’t be bothered with the maintenance,
> where as with the Gravel bike which has had multiple independent punctures
> before now on one ride it’s the easier system to live with.

Two good friends of ours recently got back from some sort of guided or supported
tour in New Mexico. I don't know which it was, but they were in Taos and Santa Fe,
either on the ride or while they were out there. I guess the riding was quite hot,
even in the mountains.

Anyway, I asked about flats and yes, they had many, from some sort of thorns. "Goat
heads?" "No, that was before we got to the goat heads."

I think if I were riding in territory with flat-causing thorns, I'd certainly consider some
sort of solution - sealant inside the tube, protective liners, whatever. But I think the
problem would have to be extreme before I'd go with tubeless .YMMV, of course.

- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 6:17:42 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 5:15:45 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 2:09:01 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > On 8/11/2023 12:45 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The big advantage of tubeless is they don't get pinch flats and if you've ever been 20 miles from home and gotten a pinch flat and used your last tube and CO2 you know how worried you can get about pinch flats.
> > > If only they would invent a portable tire pump!
> > >
> > > --
> > > - Frank Krygowski
> > We understand that you ride with saddlebags and multiple spare parts for every occasion. I don't and won't
> That's fine, do what you like. I wouldn't like to walk my bikes home, and I've never had to.
>
> - Frank Krygowski

The reason for that is that you either don't ride, or you always ride in a group that can supply back up support. Frank - you grow tiresome pretending that you're Mr. Bicycle. It is like your crap that you disagreed with Jobst. You kissed his ass and never did one thing other than mirror his statements as if they were yours. Though I hate to talk badly of the dead, especially since his son may be watching, but I am the only one here that actually knew him and he was very far from perfect. When he got so angry for being criticized that he publish what he thought was my address, it showed just what sort of jerk he really was. Essentially he was sic'ing his attack dogs on what turned out to be my mother. This also led to others of his ilk publishing the address of another Tom Kunich who also lived in San Leandro and his mother Mary Kunich who was no relation of any kind. You may not have approved of that but you said NOTHING.

How does it feel to be nothing more than a punk?

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 7:00:44 PM UTC-4, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I used tubeless for quite some time and then since I wasn't getting flats
>>> I figured I didn't need them. And on new tires you don't. But it doesn't
>>> take much wear before tubeless makes more sense.
>>>
>> For the gravel bike it’s really solved multiples punctures from well the
>> gravel!
>>
>> On the road bikes, I used to run the tires mosty training type so stuff
>> like conti 4 seasons which would last maybe 2k on the rear and get maybe 2
>> punctures per year so generally not a huge problem.
>>
>> The advantages seem less so for road, mind you I’ve not bothered for the
>> MTB as well tubes just work and I can’t be bothered with the maintenance,
>> where as with the Gravel bike which has had multiple independent punctures
>> before now on one ride it’s the easier system to live with.
>
> Two good friends of ours recently got back from some sort of guided or supported
> tour in New Mexico. I don't know which it was, but they were in Taos and Santa Fe,
> either on the ride or while they were out there. I guess the riding was quite hot,
> even in the mountains.
>
> Anyway, I asked about flats and yes, they had many, from some sort of thorns. "Goat
> heads?" "No, that was before we got to the goat heads."
>
> I think if I were riding in territory with flat-causing thorns, I'd certainly consider some
> sort of solution - sealant inside the tube, protective liners, whatever. But I think the
> problem would have to be extreme before I'd go with tubeless .YMMV, of course.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>
It depends personally the MTB tires are burly enough or at least the trail
type stuff, which is 1kg or so and armoured against sharp rocks and what
not. And well it’s works tubes that is, and easy enough to put a new tube
in. Though such tires do require a fair bit of man handling.

For the gravel bike you could fit heavyweight touring tires ie
marathon/Land Cruiser plus touring say or similar. But at that point your
making other compromises.

in terms of comfort ie running tubes the risk of a impact impacting a tube,
means you need higher pressures and such tires have a rather uncomfortable
wooden feel on tarmac let alone off road.

Grip though you’ll have mechanical grip possible more as Gravel tires tend
to the lower profile knobs. But wet surfaces will be fairly iffy as you the
compound is hard wearing rather than grippy plus the high pressures and
stiff sidewalls mean the tire will ping rather than conform to the
surfaces.

Rolling resistance is worse less so on tarmac but off road it’s heavy going
with such tires.

Some folks do make that choice, but you do miss out on the speed/grip that
gravel bikes have. For example one steep chalky climb if wet such tires (a
friend does this) will struggle with traction so ends up being a hike a
bike.

Roger Merriman