On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 4:57:01 PM UTC-5, Kimberly Richards wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 21:54:44 -0000, Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 19:12:36 -0000, Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 1:48:58 PM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 17:56:41 -0000, Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 11:43:59 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >>> >> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 15:21:24 -0000, Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 2:06:28 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >>> >> >> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 14:51:37 -0000, Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail..com> wrote:
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> > On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 4:56:32 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >>> >> >> >> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 06:24:16 -0000, Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >> >> >>
> >>> >> >> >> > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 11:53:34 PM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >>> >> >> >> >> On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 15:28:11 -0000, Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >> >> >> >>
> >>> >> >> >> >> > Yes, exactly. That's why it was disingenuous to post about the switched supplies. Saying, "nowadays they're electronic" would appear to be saying the transformerless supplies are not in use which is not correct.
> >>> >> >> >> >> Never looked inside one in great detail. I assumed they were switched mode, since a £4 LED bulb from China is. Never tried looking inside a tiny one, like a plug in USB PSU.
> >>> >> >> >> >
> >>> >> >> >> > The light bulb has to be a switched device. Transformerless units waste a fair amount of power. Lightbulbs need to be efficient as they consume a fair amount of power and they also need to regulate the current.
> >>> >> >> >> Actually I have an old one which is just a capacitor dropper.. The capacitor recently exploded so I opened it up and replaced it with a larger one.
> >>> >> >> >> > The lightbulbs are sold through retail establishments that expect a level of quality and safety.
> >>> >> >> >> I'm not stupid enough to buy anything through an expensive retail establishment.
> >>> >> >> >> > A typical wall wart isn't and doesn't regulate anything very well. The junk that are sold on the Internet are literally death traps. Watch one of Big Clive's tear-downs on various products. He finds dangerous stuff all the time.
> >>> >> >> >> >
> >>> >> >> >> > https://www.youtube.com/c/Bigclive/videos
> >>> >> >> >> I've watched a lot of his stuff, but I've never had a problem with a cheapo Chinese USB supply like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303876456847
> >>> >> >> >> Mind you I'm not scared of electricity.
> >>> >> >> >
> >>> >> >> > Yeah, sure. Enjoy.
> >>> >> >> I've had several 240V shocks. That's all they are, a shock. Your muscles jump. Big fucking deal.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Wow! It's not often you find people who are so ignorant. You didn't have the electricity pass through your heart. If it goes in one finger and out another on the same hand, no big deal, but in one hand and out the other or in a hand and out the feet, you may end up a dead duck.
> >>> >> I've had it in all directions. In one hand the hand gets warm, no muscles in your hand. One hand to the other, your arms do a Mexican wave, it's quite funny. Not painful at all.
> >>> >> > What is the lethal current, 10 mA or so?
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > You strike me as a particularly ignorant person. Willfully ignorant, you might say. Is that right?
> >>> >> You're the ignorant one, it's 80mA (and only with a weak heart), why do you think breakers trip at 30mA? Which by the way means you cannot die if you have breakers. I have fuses because I'm not a girl.
> >>> >
> >>> > Yes, willfully ignorant. Not only do you appear to ignore safety advice,
> >>> Safety advice is for the weak and frail scaredycats.
> >>> > you don't understand the difference between a "breaker" and a GFCI.
> >>> They tend to go together, you either have them both in the box, or they're part of the same unit.
> >>
> >> Complete rubbish. I have several houses, all with GFCI and none have it in the circuit breaker panels. GFCI outlets can protect the entire string of outlets.
> >>
> >> https://www.google.com/search?q=GFCI+outlets
> >
> > Just because you're too stupid to install it in the fusebox doesn't mean they don't exist. The entire UK has one of these (apart from houses like mine which have fuses):
> > https://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00ZJIQhmgWwwoj/2p-25A-30mA-Hyundai-RCCB-Residual-Current-Circuit-Breaker-ELCB.jpg
> > Protects against overcurrent and earth leakage.
> >
> > Perhaps the USA is behind the times, perhaps you don't realise there are countries, better countries, outside of yours.
> >
> >>> > A GFCI will protect you if the current is flowing through you to ground, but not if you are in a live circuit with both hands, one on each conductor.
> >>> That is very unlikely to happen, although I've done it and I'm still here.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately...
> >
> > It proves it's not dangerous.
> >
> >>> > Yes, you are not a girl. Girls can understand science, engineering and medicine.
> >>> They also shriek at the slightest pain.
> >>
> >> Certainly they shriek at an attempt to communicate with you.
> >
> > They shriek at everything.
> >
> >> I'm done here. It is seldom that even in s.e.d anyone appears to be as willfully ignorant as you.
> >
> > Then why the fuck did you reply? That's utterly childish, replying THEN killfiling me. No doubt you've got one of those shit killfiles that doesn't block responses to me, so you'll read this when someone else replies.
> Like me.

That shows how stupid he is. I never said anything about kill filing him. I just said I won't be responding to him. He has to be one of the most stupid people here and that includes the likes of DLUNU and Cursitor Dumb.

--

Rick C.

+-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 22:37:43 -0000, Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 4:57:01 PM UTC-5, Kimberly Richards wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 21:54:44 -0000, Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 19:12:36 -0000, Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 1:48:58 PM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >>> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 17:56:41 -0000, Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 11:43:59 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >>> >> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 15:21:24 -0000, Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 2:06:28 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >>> >> >> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 14:51:37 -0000, Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> > On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 4:56:32 AM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >>> >> >> >> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 06:24:16 -0000, Rick C <gnuarm.del....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 11:53:34 PM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >>> >> >> >> >> On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 15:28:11 -0000, Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > Yes, exactly. That's why it was disingenuous to post about the switched supplies. Saying, "nowadays they're electronic" would appear to be saying the transformerless supplies are not in use which is not correct.
>> >>> >> >> >> >> Never looked inside one in great detail. I assumed they were switched mode, since a £4 LED bulb from China is. Never tried looking inside a tiny one, like a plug in USB PSU.
>> >>> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> > The light bulb has to be a switched device. Transformerless units waste a fair amount of power. Lightbulbs need to be efficient as they consume a fair amount of power and they also need to regulate the current.
>> >>> >> >> >> Actually I have an old one which is just a capacitor dropper. The capacitor recently exploded so I opened it up and replaced it with a larger one.
>> >>> >> >> >> > The lightbulbs are sold through retail establishments that expect a level of quality and safety.
>> >>> >> >> >> I'm not stupid enough to buy anything through an expensive retail establishment.
>> >>> >> >> >> > A typical wall wart isn't and doesn't regulate anything very well. The junk that are sold on the Internet are literally death traps. Watch one of Big Clive's tear-downs on various products. He finds dangerous stuff all the time.
>> >>> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> > https://www.youtube.com/c/Bigclive/videos
>> >>> >> >> >> I've watched a lot of his stuff, but I've never had a problem with a cheapo Chinese USB supply like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303876456847
>> >>> >> >> >> Mind you I'm not scared of electricity.
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> > Yeah, sure. Enjoy.
>> >>> >> >> I've had several 240V shocks. That's all they are, a shock. Your muscles jump. Big fucking deal.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > Wow! It's not often you find people who are so ignorant. You didn't have the electricity pass through your heart. If it goes in one finger and out another on the same hand, no big deal, but in one hand and out the other or in a hand and out the feet, you may end up a dead duck.
>> >>> >> I've had it in all directions. In one hand the hand gets warm, no muscles in your hand. One hand to the other, your arms do a Mexican wave, it's quite funny. Not painful at all.
>> >>> >> > What is the lethal current, 10 mA or so?
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > You strike me as a particularly ignorant person. Willfully ignorant, you might say. Is that right?
>> >>> >> You're the ignorant one, it's 80mA (and only with a weak heart), why do you think breakers trip at 30mA? Which by the way means you cannot die if you have breakers. I have fuses because I'm not a girl.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Yes, willfully ignorant. Not only do you appear to ignore safety advice,
>> >>> Safety advice is for the weak and frail scaredycats.
>> >>> > you don't understand the difference between a "breaker" and a GFCI.
>> >>> They tend to go together, you either have them both in the box, or they're part of the same unit.
>> >>
>> >> Complete rubbish. I have several houses, all with GFCI and none have it in the circuit breaker panels. GFCI outlets can protect the entire string of outlets.
>> >>
>> >> https://www.google.com/search?q=GFCI+outlets
>> >
>> > Just because you're too stupid to install it in the fusebox doesn't mean they don't exist. The entire UK has one of these (apart from houses like mine which have fuses):
>> > https://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00ZJIQhmgWwwoj/2p-25A-30mA-Hyundai-RCCB-Residual-Current-Circuit-Breaker-ELCB.jpg
>> > Protects against overcurrent and earth leakage.
>> >
>> > Perhaps the USA is behind the times, perhaps you don't realise there are countries, better countries, outside of yours.
>> >
>> >>> > A GFCI will protect you if the current is flowing through you to ground, but not if you are in a live circuit with both hands, one on each conductor.
>> >>> That is very unlikely to happen, although I've done it and I'm still here.
>> >>
>> >> Unfortunately...
>> >
>> > It proves it's not dangerous.
>> >
>> >>> > Yes, you are not a girl. Girls can understand science, engineering and medicine.
>> >>> They also shriek at the slightest pain.
>> >>
>> >> Certainly they shriek at an attempt to communicate with you.
>> >
>> > They shriek at everything.
>> >
>> >> I'm done here. It is seldom that even in s.e.d anyone appears to be as willfully ignorant as you.
>> >
>> > Then why the fuck did you reply? That's utterly childish, replying THEN killfiling me. No doubt you've got one of those shit killfiles that doesn't block responses to me, so you'll read this when someone else replies.
>> Like me.
>
> That shows how stupid he is. I never said anything about kill filing him. I just said I won't be responding to him. He has to be one of the most stupid people here and that includes the likes of DLUNU and Cursitor Dumb.

Why are you referring to me in the third person?

If you don't use a killfile to get rid of people you don't like, you're an idiot.

On 2022-02-19, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 20:08:31 -0000, Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-02-18, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 12:13:35 -0000, Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-02-17, Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 7:01:03 AM UTC-5, Jasen Betts wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-02-17, Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > Yes, exactly. That's why it was disingenuous to post about the switched supplies. Saying, "nowadays they're electronic" would appear to be saying the transformerless supplies are not in use which is not correct.
>>>>>> >> Never looked inside one in great detail. I assumed they were switched mode, since a £4 LED bulb from China is. Never tried looking inside a tiny one, like a plug in USB PSU.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > The light bulb has to be a switched device. Transformerless units
>>>>>> > waste a fair amount of power. Lightbulbs need to be efficient as they
>>>>>> > consume a fair amount of power and they also need to regulate the
>>>>>> > current.
>>>>>> They consume a few watts, tens at most. not a lot of power.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a capacitive dropper is inherently current limited.
>>>>>
>>>>> "A few watts" in most light bulbs is a lot more than a cell phone charger puts out.
>>>>
>>>> Phone charger 2.5W to 15W. LED lamp 3W to 30W. Same ballpark.
>>>
>>> A phone battery is 4V. 15 W would be charging it at 4A, you'd get an explosion.
>>
>> the phone "charger" label says 15W but when I measured it was closer to 13w, I guess
>> that's why it hasn't exploded yet.
>
> Even my high spec 18650 cells recommend charging at 1.5A. And those aren't enclosed in a phone.

Well it's a fast charger. so it charges at about 1C (which seems to
also be the fast-charge rate for lithium ion)

>>>>> The purpose of LED light bulbs is to save power. Giving up 20% or
>>>>> more to the dissipative elements in a dropper makes the bulb
>>>>> significantly less efficient.
>>>>
>>>> So does overdriving the LEDs, but they do that to save money.
>>>
>>> It doesn't save money. I bought Cree (shittest company ever) bulbs, they lasted 1 month due to getting so fucking hot they couldn't be touched comfortably for even half a second. I sent them back 5 times, costing them a fortune.
>>
>> Saves the manufacturer money. they can achieve brihtness while using
>> less material, also they can sell more if they don't last too long.
>
> They won't sell more. They either get them returned costing them
> money, or the customer never uses that brand again.

Maybe if the customer can remember when they purchased the lamp,
and notices the gradual dimming. pretty much the only place that has
high efficiency LED lamps is Dubai.

--
Jasen.

On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 03:52:52 -0000, Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

> On 2022-02-19, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 20:08:31 -0000, Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip..org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-02-18, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 12:13:35 -0000, Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2022-02-17, Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 7:01:03 AM UTC-5, Jasen Betts wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2022-02-17, Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> > Yes, exactly. That's why it was disingenuous to post about the switched supplies. Saying, "nowadays they're electronic" would appear to be saying the transformerless supplies are not in use which is not correct.
>>>>>>> >> Never looked inside one in great detail. I assumed they were switched mode, since a £4 LED bulb from China is. Never tried looking inside a tiny one, like a plug in USB PSU.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > The light bulb has to be a switched device. Transformerless units
>>>>>>> > waste a fair amount of power. Lightbulbs need to be efficient as they
>>>>>>> > consume a fair amount of power and they also need to regulate the
>>>>>>> > current.
>>>>>>> They consume a few watts, tens at most. not a lot of power.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a capacitive dropper is inherently current limited.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "A few watts" in most light bulbs is a lot more than a cell phone charger puts out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Phone charger 2.5W to 15W. LED lamp 3W to 30W. Same ballpark.
>>>>
>>>> A phone battery is 4V. 15 W would be charging it at 4A, you'd get an explosion.
>>>
>>> the phone "charger" label says 15W but when I measured it was closer to 13w, I guess
>>> that's why it hasn't exploded yet.
>>
>> Even my high spec 18650 cells recommend charging at 1.5A. And those aren't enclosed in a phone.
>
> Well it's a fast charger. so it charges at about 1C (which seems to
> also be the fast-charge rate for lithium ion)

Ah ok, mine were 1/2C, Panasonic so I assumed the best.

It's really hard to get 18650 in the UK. Ebay banned them (but not other Li Ion sizes!) and I could only find 1 other place that sold them, and three others at triple price! The place I got the tabbed ones from had a notice saying "Samsung has publicly denounced the selling of tagged batteries to end users", but they sold me them anyway. Do Samsung think we're idiots? The batteries even have on the side "this must not be installed or used by a customer". Er mustn't be used?!

>>>>>> The purpose of LED light bulbs is to save power. Giving up 20% or
>>>>>> more to the dissipative elements in a dropper makes the bulb
>>>>>> significantly less efficient.
>>>>>
>>>>> So does overdriving the LEDs, but they do that to save money.
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't save money. I bought Cree (shittest company ever) bulbs, they lasted 1 month due to getting so fucking hot they couldn't be touched comfortably for even half a second. I sent them back 5 times, costing them a fortune.
>>>
>>> Saves the manufacturer money. they can achieve brihtness while using
>>> less material, also they can sell more if they don't last too long.
>>
>> They won't sell more. They either get them returned costing them
>> money, or the customer never uses that brand again.
>
> Maybe if the customer can remember when they purchased the lamp,
> and notices the gradual dimming. pretty much the only place that has
> high efficiency LED lamps is Dubai.

LED don't gradually dim, they just go off.

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 11:01:00 PM UTC-5, Jasen Betts wrote:
> On 2022-02-19, Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >
> > Even my high spec 18650 cells recommend charging at 1.5A. And those aren't enclosed in a phone.
> Well it's a fast charger. so it charges at about 1C (which seems to
> also be the fast-charge rate for lithium ion)

For small devices they aren't going to spend too much effort on designing the charger. With lithium-ion batteries you can charge at faster rates if you tailor the rate to the state of charge during the charging process. With EVs they put a lot more effort into the design of the battery management system. There they tailor the charging rate to the temperature and the state of charge so the battery charge rate balances time to charge with battery life under all conditions. My car can reach 1.5C charging rate and other Tesla models reach 3C.

--

Rick C.

+-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209