On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 07:31:50 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 9/17/2023 9:53 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 20:50:10 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/17/2023 8:36 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 19:34:29 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/17/2023 7:14 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 18:12:49 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/17/2023 5:50 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 09:08:17 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 9/17/2023 7:59 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 05:22:15 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
>>>>>>>>>> <fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2023/09/16/video-of-teens-allegedly-intentionally-hitting-and-killing-biker-with-car-tells-us-we-have-big-problems-n2163887
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Alongside the tragedy, personal and societal, note that the victim's Apple watch informed his wife and daughter that he was down. That's a good use of simple AI.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, when it comes to Chinese technology monitering our
>>>>>>>>>> lives, how much is too much?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A robot message on your wrist, "You have just been killed."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Priceless.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But the answer is simple. Refuse to use anything manufactured by a
>>>>>>>> Chinese company no matter where it is actually made.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm generally OK with that. Works for me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You might want to read
>>>>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/01/11/reminder-most-what-you-pay-made-china-product-goes-us-workers-businesses/
>>>>>> It tells us, in part, that more then half what you pay for "Chinese
>>>>>> made" actually stays in the U.S.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But on the other hand I read that about 85% of bicycles sold are
>>>>>> either made in China or made from components made in China. Shimano,
>>>>>> for example, has at least 3 large factories in China.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Most', not all.
>>>>> Bianchi sold in USA are switching now to Italian built, will
>>>>> be all Italian production by end of year. SOMA are Free
>>>>> China ROC built with Japanese tube. And others.
>>>>
>>>> Re "free China". Years ago I read an article about "Horns" - Trumpets,
>>>> Bugles, Trombones, etc., and apparently the majority came from Taiwan.
>>>> The author of the article visited Taiwan and discovered that while the
>>>> horns were sold to the U.S. by Taiwanese companies that the actual
>>>> manufacture of the horns was in mainland China.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, historically "Free China" was a military dictatorship from
>>>> 1949 to 1987 and during the "White Terror", as the period is known,
>>>> 140,000 people were imprisoned or executed for being perceived as
>>>> anti-KMT or pro-Communist
>>>
>>> Some guilty and some not but the danger of CCP fifth
>>> columnists was real.
>>>
>>> During which time Mao dispatched some 60 million chinese,
>>> some large proportion in his Great Leap Forward famine.
>>
>> Ah but you are forgetting. The KMT were the "good Guys".
>>
>> Mrs. Chiang Kai-shek parading around the U.S. and the U.S. financing
>> the KMT to the tune of $1.4 billion over the period 1951-1965. And
>> meanwhile the KMT was killing their own people - see "White Terror.
>> Some 3 - 4,000 executed, not including the 18,000 - 28,000 killed in
>> the 228 "Incident", and the 140,000 imprisoned.
>>
>
>And yet ROC became a wealthy peaceable successful state
>while PRC remains a kleptocracy of thugs.

Well, the mainland is the second largest economy in the world, I
believe. Certainly the most successful "communist" country in history.
They currently export more to the U.S. then any other country.

Which certainly would lead one to believe that there is some success
there somewhere.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 9/18/2023 8:24 AM, John B. wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 07:31:50 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 9/17/2023 9:53 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 20:50:10 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/17/2023 8:36 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 19:34:29 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/17/2023 7:14 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 18:12:49 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 9/17/2023 5:50 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 09:08:17 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 9/17/2023 7:59 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 05:22:15 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
>>>>>>>>>>> <fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2023/09/16/video-of-teens-allegedly-intentionally-hitting-and-killing-biker-with-car-tells-us-we-have-big-problems-n2163887
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alongside the tragedy, personal and societal, note that the victim's Apple watch informed his wife and daughter that he was down. That's a good use of simple AI.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, when it comes to Chinese technology monitering our
>>>>>>>>>>> lives, how much is too much?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A robot message on your wrist, "You have just been killed."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Priceless.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But the answer is simple. Refuse to use anything manufactured by a
>>>>>>>>> Chinese company no matter where it is actually made.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm generally OK with that. Works for me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You might want to read
>>>>>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/01/11/reminder-most-what-you-pay-made-china-product-goes-us-workers-businesses/
>>>>>>> It tells us, in part, that more then half what you pay for "Chinese
>>>>>>> made" actually stays in the U.S.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But on the other hand I read that about 85% of bicycles sold are
>>>>>>> either made in China or made from components made in China. Shimano,
>>>>>>> for example, has at least 3 large factories in China.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 'Most', not all.
>>>>>> Bianchi sold in USA are switching now to Italian built, will
>>>>>> be all Italian production by end of year. SOMA are Free
>>>>>> China ROC built with Japanese tube. And others.
>>>>>
>>>>> Re "free China". Years ago I read an article about "Horns" - Trumpets,
>>>>> Bugles, Trombones, etc., and apparently the majority came from Taiwan.
>>>>> The author of the article visited Taiwan and discovered that while the
>>>>> horns were sold to the U.S. by Taiwanese companies that the actual
>>>>> manufacture of the horns was in mainland China.
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, historically "Free China" was a military dictatorship from
>>>>> 1949 to 1987 and during the "White Terror", as the period is known,
>>>>> 140,000 people were imprisoned or executed for being perceived as
>>>>> anti-KMT or pro-Communist
>>>>
>>>> Some guilty and some not but the danger of CCP fifth
>>>> columnists was real.
>>>>
>>>> During which time Mao dispatched some 60 million chinese,
>>>> some large proportion in his Great Leap Forward famine.
>>>
>>> Ah but you are forgetting. The KMT were the "good Guys".
>>>
>>> Mrs. Chiang Kai-shek parading around the U.S. and the U.S. financing
>>> the KMT to the tune of $1.4 billion over the period 1951-1965. And
>>> meanwhile the KMT was killing their own people - see "White Terror.
>>> Some 3 - 4,000 executed, not including the 18,000 - 28,000 killed in
>>> the 228 "Incident", and the 140,000 imprisoned.
>>>
>>
>> And yet ROC became a wealthy peaceable successful state
>> while PRC remains a kleptocracy of thugs.
>
> Well, the mainland is the second largest economy in the world, I
> believe. Certainly the most successful "communist" country in history.
> They currently export more to the U.S. then any other country.
>
> Which certainly would lead one to believe that there is some success
> there somewhere.
>

At great cost including a massive program of vivisection -
selling organs from living human beings. On a lesser note,
state industrial policy is a predation and abuse of WTO and
the feckless if not complicit administrators of partially
free markets worldwide. Despite a pretty out-facing
appearance it's a brutal totalitarian regime.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 1:34:31 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> On 9/17/2023 7:14 PM, John B. wrote:
> > On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 18:12:49 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On 9/17/2023 5:50 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 09:08:17 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 9/17/2023 7:59 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 05:22:15 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> >>>>> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2023/09/16/video-of-teens-allegedly-intentionally-hitting-and-killing-biker-with-car-tells-us-we-have-big-problems-n2163887
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Alongside the tragedy, personal and societal, note that the victim's Apple watch informed his wife and daughter that he was down. That's a good use of simple AI.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On the other hand, when it comes to Chinese technology monitering our
> >>>>> lives, how much is too much?
> >>>>
> >>>> A robot message on your wrist, "You have just been killed."
> >>>>
> >>>> Priceless.
> >>>
> >>> But the answer is simple. Refuse to use anything manufactured by a
> >>> Chinese company no matter where it is actually made.
> >>
> >> I'm generally OK with that. Works for me.
> >
> > You might want to read
> > https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/01/11/reminder-most-what-you-pay-made-china-product-goes-us-workers-businesses/
> > It tells us, in part, that more then half what you pay for "Chinese
> > made" actually stays in the U.S.
> >
> > But on the other hand I read that about 85% of bicycles sold are
> > either made in China or made from components made in China. Shimano,
> > for example, has at least 3 large factories in China.
> >
> 'Most', not all.
> Bianchi sold in USA are switching now to Italian built, will
> be all Italian production by end of year. SOMA are Free
> China ROC built with Japanese tube. And others.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
A big seller of commuter and other bikes in the EU is Giant, but they have a a couple or three EU factories in addition to the factories in Taiwan.. -- AJ

On 9/18/2023 9:13 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 1:34:31 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 9/17/2023 7:14 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 18:12:49 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/17/2023 5:50 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 09:08:17 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/17/2023 7:59 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 05:22:15 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
>>>>>>> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2023/09/16/video-of-teens-allegedly-intentionally-hitting-and-killing-biker-with-car-tells-us-we-have-big-problems-n2163887
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alongside the tragedy, personal and societal, note that the victim's Apple watch informed his wife and daughter that he was down. That's a good use of simple AI.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On the other hand, when it comes to Chinese technology monitering our
>>>>>>> lives, how much is too much?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A robot message on your wrist, "You have just been killed."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Priceless.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the answer is simple. Refuse to use anything manufactured by a
>>>>> Chinese company no matter where it is actually made.
>>>>
>>>> I'm generally OK with that. Works for me.
>>>
>>> You might want to read
>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/01/11/reminder-most-what-you-pay-made-china-product-goes-us-workers-businesses/
>>> It tells us, in part, that more then half what you pay for "Chinese
>>> made" actually stays in the U.S.
>>>
>>> But on the other hand I read that about 85% of bicycles sold are
>>> either made in China or made from components made in China. Shimano,
>>> for example, has at least 3 large factories in China.
>>>
>> 'Most', not all.
>> Bianchi sold in USA are switching now to Italian built, will
>> be all Italian production by end of year. SOMA are Free
>> China ROC built with Japanese tube. And others.
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> a...@yellowjersey.org
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>
> A big seller of commuter and other bikes in the EU is Giant, but they have a a couple or three EU factories in addition to the factories in Taiwan.. -- AJ

Yes but it's complex:
https://brandcritica.com/where-are-giant-bikes-made/

--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 08:30:08 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 9/18/2023 8:24 AM, John B. wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 07:31:50 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/17/2023 9:53 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 20:50:10 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/17/2023 8:36 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 19:34:29 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/17/2023 7:14 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 18:12:49 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 9/17/2023 5:50 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 09:08:17 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/17/2023 7:59 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 05:22:15 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
>>>>>>>>>>>> <fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2023/09/16/video-of-teens-allegedly-intentionally-hitting-and-killing-biker-with-car-tells-us-we-have-big-problems-n2163887
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alongside the tragedy, personal and societal, note that the victim's Apple watch informed his wife and daughter that he was down. That's a good use of simple AI.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, when it comes to Chinese technology monitering our
>>>>>>>>>>>> lives, how much is too much?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A robot message on your wrist, "You have just been killed."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Priceless.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But the answer is simple. Refuse to use anything manufactured by a
>>>>>>>>>> Chinese company no matter where it is actually made.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm generally OK with that. Works for me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You might want to read
>>>>>>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/01/11/reminder-most-what-you-pay-made-china-product-goes-us-workers-businesses/
>>>>>>>> It tells us, in part, that more then half what you pay for "Chinese
>>>>>>>> made" actually stays in the U.S.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But on the other hand I read that about 85% of bicycles sold are
>>>>>>>> either made in China or made from components made in China. Shimano,
>>>>>>>> for example, has at least 3 large factories in China.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 'Most', not all.
>>>>>>> Bianchi sold in USA are switching now to Italian built, will
>>>>>>> be all Italian production by end of year. SOMA are Free
>>>>>>> China ROC built with Japanese tube. And others.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Re "free China". Years ago I read an article about "Horns" - Trumpets,
>>>>>> Bugles, Trombones, etc., and apparently the majority came from Taiwan.
>>>>>> The author of the article visited Taiwan and discovered that while the
>>>>>> horns were sold to the U.S. by Taiwanese companies that the actual
>>>>>> manufacture of the horns was in mainland China.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By the way, historically "Free China" was a military dictatorship from
>>>>>> 1949 to 1987 and during the "White Terror", as the period is known,
>>>>>> 140,000 people were imprisoned or executed for being perceived as
>>>>>> anti-KMT or pro-Communist
>>>>>
>>>>> Some guilty and some not but the danger of CCP fifth
>>>>> columnists was real.
>>>>>
>>>>> During which time Mao dispatched some 60 million chinese,
>>>>> some large proportion in his Great Leap Forward famine.
>>>>
>>>> Ah but you are forgetting. The KMT were the "good Guys".
>>>>
>>>> Mrs. Chiang Kai-shek parading around the U.S. and the U.S. financing
>>>> the KMT to the tune of $1.4 billion over the period 1951-1965. And
>>>> meanwhile the KMT was killing their own people - see "White Terror.
>>>> Some 3 - 4,000 executed, not including the 18,000 - 28,000 killed in
>>>> the 228 "Incident", and the 140,000 imprisoned.
>>>>
>>>
>>> And yet ROC became a wealthy peaceable successful state
>>> while PRC remains a kleptocracy of thugs.
>>
>> Well, the mainland is the second largest economy in the world, I
>> believe. Certainly the most successful "communist" country in history.
>> They currently export more to the U.S. then any other country.
>>
>> Which certainly would lead one to believe that there is some success
>> there somewhere.
>>
>
>At great cost including a massive program of vivisection -
>selling organs from living human beings. On a lesser note,
>state industrial policy is a predation and abuse of WTO and
>the feckless if not complicit administrators of partially
>free markets worldwide. Despite a pretty out-facing
>appearance it's a brutal totalitarian regime.

Certainly sounds terrible.

But, on the other hand Chinese tourists are visiting Thailand in vast
numbers, far more then any other nationality. And, they spend more
money per day then any other nationality. Strange isn't it that these
people from this horrible country that you describe don't seem to seek
Asylum here. In fact they are so law abiding that Thailand has
initiated a 30 day, "no visa", program for Chinese.

And don't forget your are disparaging a country with a crime rate
about half that of your country and Intentional Murder rate 13 times
lower then your country. And it might also be noted that your country
has the highest incarceration rate in the world.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 05:22:15 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> <fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2023/09/16/video-of-teens-allegedly-intentionally-hitting-and-killing-biker-with-car-tells-us-we-have-big-problems-n2163887
>>>
>> Alongside the tragedy, personal and societal, note that the victim's
>> Apple watch informed his wife and daughter that he was down. That's a
>> good use of simple AI.
>>
>
> On the other hand, when it comes to Chinese technology monitering our
> lives, how much is too much?
>
Apple is while the hardware is largely made in China it’s largely American
technology, doesn’t appear to be snooping, other companies that have very
close ties to Chinese government that kit is rather suspect. Though this is
more telco kit than smart watches.

I’d be less concerned about the Chinese government more western countries
who have attempted to get back doors.

Roger Merriman

On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 11:24:20 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 05:22:15 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
>> <fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2023/09/16/video-of-teens-allegedly-intentionally-hitting-and-killing-biker-with-car-tells-us-we-have-big-problems-n2163887
>>>>
>>> Alongside the tragedy, personal and societal, note that the victim's
>>> Apple watch informed his wife and daughter that he was down. That's a
>>> good use of simple AI.
>>>
>>
>> On the other hand, when it comes to Chinese technology monitering our
>> lives, how much is too much?
>>
>Apple is while the hardware is largely made in China it’s largely American
>technology, doesn’t appear to be snooping, other companies that have very
>close ties to Chinese government that kit is rather suspect. Though this is
>more telco kit than smart watches.
>
>I’d be less concerned about the Chinese government more western countries
>who have attempted to get back doors.
>
>Roger Merriman

Indeed, the robo emails and robo phone calls I get is ample proof that
I'm being spied on. Not much I can do about it unless I want to live
like a hermit in a cave.

On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 07:36:42 -0400, Catrike Rider
<soloman@drafting.not> wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 11:24:20 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 05:22:15 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
>>> <fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2023/09/16/video-of-teens-allegedly-intentionally-hitting-and-killing-biker-with-car-tells-us-we-have-big-problems-n2163887
>>>>>
>>>> Alongside the tragedy, personal and societal, note that the victim's
>>>> Apple watch informed his wife and daughter that he was down. That's a
>>>> good use of simple AI.
>>>>
>>>
>>> On the other hand, when it comes to Chinese technology monitering our
>>> lives, how much is too much?
>>>
>>Apple is while the hardware is largely made in China it’s largely American
>>technology, doesn’t appear to be snooping, other companies that have very
>>close ties to Chinese government that kit is rather suspect. Though this is
>>more telco kit than smart watches.
>>
>>I’d be less concerned about the Chinese government more western countries
>>who have attempted to get back doors.
>>
>>Roger Merriman
>
>Indeed, the robo emails and robo phone calls I get is ample proof that
>I'm being spied on. Not much I can do about it unless I want to live
>like a hermit in a cave.

But is that the telephone? Or the telephone network?

Her, the only unasked for messages or calls I get are from the
telephone service with offers of improved service. the latest says
"Super value non stop data 8 mbps for 30 GB. Buy Now..."

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 18:49:21 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 07:36:42 -0400, Catrike Rider
><soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 11:24:20 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 05:22:15 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
>>>> <fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2023/09/16/video-of-teens-allegedly-intentionally-hitting-and-killing-biker-with-car-tells-us-we-have-big-problems-n2163887
>>>>>>
>>>>> Alongside the tragedy, personal and societal, note that the victim's
>>>>> Apple watch informed his wife and daughter that he was down. That's a
>>>>> good use of simple AI.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, when it comes to Chinese technology monitering our
>>>> lives, how much is too much?
>>>>
>>>Apple is while the hardware is largely made in China it’s largely American
>>>technology, doesn’t appear to be snooping, other companies that have very
>>>close ties to Chinese government that kit is rather suspect. Though this is
>>>more telco kit than smart watches.
>>>
>>>I’d be less concerned about the Chinese government more western countries
>>>who have attempted to get back doors.
>>>
>>>Roger Merriman
>>
>>Indeed, the robo emails and robo phone calls I get is ample proof that
>>I'm being spied on. Not much I can do about it unless I want to live
>>like a hermit in a cave.
>
>But is that the telephone? Or the telephone network?
>
>Her, the only unasked for messages or calls I get are from the
>telephone service with offers of improved service. the latest says
>"Super value non stop data 8 mbps for 30 GB. Buy Now..."

It's likely both, plus the third party apps I've installed on the
phone. Our e-mail adresses and phone numbers are being sold.

On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 08:09:16 -0400, Catrike Rider
<soloman@drafting.not> wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 18:49:21 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 07:36:42 -0400, Catrike Rider
>><soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 11:24:20 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 05:22:15 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
>>>>> <fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2023/09/16/video-of-teens-allegedly-intentionally-hitting-and-killing-biker-with-car-tells-us-we-have-big-problems-n2163887
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alongside the tragedy, personal and societal, note that the victim's
>>>>>> Apple watch informed his wife and daughter that he was down. That's a
>>>>>> good use of simple AI.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On the other hand, when it comes to Chinese technology monitering our
>>>>> lives, how much is too much?
>>>>>
>>>>Apple is while the hardware is largely made in China it’s largely American
>>>>technology, doesn’t appear to be snooping, other companies that have very
>>>>close ties to Chinese government that kit is rather suspect. Though this is
>>>>more telco kit than smart watches.
>>>>
>>>>I’d be less concerned about the Chinese government more western countries
>>>>who have attempted to get back doors.
>>>>
>>>>Roger Merriman
>>>
>>>Indeed, the robo emails and robo phone calls I get is ample proof that
>>>I'm being spied on. Not much I can do about it unless I want to live
>>>like a hermit in a cave.
>>
>>But is that the telephone? Or the telephone network?
>>
>>Her, the only unasked for messages or calls I get are from the
>>telephone service with offers of improved service. the latest says
>>"Super value non stop data 8 mbps for 30 GB. Buy Now..."
>
>It's likely both, plus the third party apps I've installed on the
>phone. Our e-mail adresses and phone numbers are being sold.

(:-) I can't get all that excepted about phone numbers being sold as
I'm old enough to remember "Telephone Books",that listed both one's
telephone number and address for all the world to see (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 20 Sep 2023 05:06:17 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 08:09:16 -0400, Catrike Rider
><soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 18:49:21 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 07:36:42 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>><soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 11:24:20 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 05:22:15 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
>>>>>> <fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2023/09/16/video-of-teens-allegedly-intentionally-hitting-and-killing-biker-with-car-tells-us-we-have-big-problems-n2163887
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alongside the tragedy, personal and societal, note that the victim's
>>>>>>> Apple watch informed his wife and daughter that he was down. That's a
>>>>>>> good use of simple AI.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the other hand, when it comes to Chinese technology monitering our
>>>>>> lives, how much is too much?
>>>>>>
>>>>>Apple is while the hardware is largely made in China it’s largely American
>>>>>technology, doesn’t appear to be snooping, other companies that have very
>>>>>close ties to Chinese government that kit is rather suspect. Though this is
>>>>>more telco kit than smart watches.
>>>>>
>>>>>I’d be less concerned about the Chinese government more western countries
>>>>>who have attempted to get back doors.
>>>>>
>>>>>Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>>Indeed, the robo emails and robo phone calls I get is ample proof that
>>>>I'm being spied on. Not much I can do about it unless I want to live
>>>>like a hermit in a cave.
>>>
>>>But is that the telephone? Or the telephone network?
>>>
>>>Her, the only unasked for messages or calls I get are from the
>>>telephone service with offers of improved service. the latest says
>>>"Super value non stop data 8 mbps for 30 GB. Buy Now..."
>>
>>It's likely both, plus the third party apps I've installed on the
>>phone. Our e-mail adresses and phone numbers are being sold.
>
>
>
>(:-) I can't get all that excepted about phone numbers being sold as
>I'm old enough to remember "Telephone Books",that listed both one's
>telephone number and address for all the world to see (:-)

That was back before robocalls.

On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 18:52:36 -0400, Catrike Rider
<soloman@drafting.not> wrote:

>On Wed, 20 Sep 2023 05:06:17 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 08:09:16 -0400, Catrike Rider
>><soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 18:49:21 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 07:36:42 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>>><soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 11:24:20 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 05:22:15 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
>>>>>>> <fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2023/09/16/video-of-teens-allegedly-intentionally-hitting-and-killing-biker-with-car-tells-us-we-have-big-problems-n2163887
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alongside the tragedy, personal and societal, note that the victim's
>>>>>>>> Apple watch informed his wife and daughter that he was down. That's a
>>>>>>>> good use of simple AI.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On the other hand, when it comes to Chinese technology monitering our
>>>>>>> lives, how much is too much?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Apple is while the hardware is largely made in China it’s largely American
>>>>>>technology, doesn’t appear to be snooping, other companies that have very
>>>>>>close ties to Chinese government that kit is rather suspect. Though this is
>>>>>>more telco kit than smart watches.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I’d be less concerned about the Chinese government more western countries
>>>>>>who have attempted to get back doors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>>>>Indeed, the robo emails and robo phone calls I get is ample proof that
>>>>>I'm being spied on. Not much I can do about it unless I want to live
>>>>>like a hermit in a cave.
>>>>
>>>>But is that the telephone? Or the telephone network?
>>>>
>>>>Her, the only unasked for messages or calls I get are from the
>>>>telephone service with offers of improved service. the latest says
>>>>"Super value non stop data 8 mbps for 30 GB. Buy Now..."
>>>
>>>It's likely both, plus the third party apps I've installed on the
>>>phone. Our e-mail adresses and phone numbers are being sold.
>>
>>
>>
>>(:-) I can't get all that excepted about phone numbers being sold as
>>I'm old enough to remember "Telephone Books",that listed both one's
>>telephone number and address for all the world to see (:-)
>
>That was back before robocalls.

Well, yes. But there were companies with automated systems to dial
numbers and play a recorded advert.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 12:36:48 PM UTC+1, Catrike Rider wrote:
>
> Indeed, the robo emails and robo phone calls I get is ample proof that
> I'm being spied on. Not much I can do about it unless I want to live
> like a hermit in a cave.
>
Or you could take a wow of poverty and live on top of a pillar like Simeon Stylites. He didn't have a phone on his pillar or in his pocket, presumably because he had no pocket..
>
I get an unsolicited call once in a blue moon on the landline. If it's a woman, she's in tears before I put the phone down, if it's a man he's soon reduced to foul language, which I record and send to the government enforcer of phone privacy. The reason I get so few calls is that I'm on a blacklist that these people maintain because they don't want their staff's confidence undermined.
>
As for my mobile phones, I receive no unsolicited calls on them. This is simple to arrange. First, buy what here is called a "pay as you go phone", which isn't tied to any network. Now choose your network but do it at one remove by buying a SIM card for that network on Ebay. This gives you a phone number you can use on any phone of your choosing without the provider having a record of your name. As the final step, at any store buy a slip of paper with a code on it which gives you x amount of credit with the network the SIM belongs to. Tell nobody except your close family and trusted business associates the number of your pocket phone. When the credit runs out, buy more. At the network side, you're just a number with a legal claim to make calls up to the limit you paid for; they don't know your name and can't call you to ask because then you dob them in to the enforcer. Next, get a VPN and load its app and associated shell apps onto your phone; be careful to set the VPN up to use only servers in your own country, otherwise you can get hit with "roaming charges" levied on foreign calls. Use the VPN to stop the phone company tracking your precise position, so that they can't sell your phone number and your address by socio-economic class even if they don't have your name. All of this sounds like a lot to do, but you need only spend the ten minutes once for the life of the phone, and I tend to use the same phone for many years (I favour the unfashionably cheap but extremely sturdy Apple SE and tank-quality anti-shock D30-packed leather cases), and anyway, if you buy a phone with a competently programmed OS like an Apple, the transfer of software including VPN is painless because automated.
>
Andre Jute
It ain't rocket science. Even Slow Joni the Thai Turd can probably get it right at his nineteenth try.
>

On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 03:37:58 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
<fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 12:36:48?PM UTC+1, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>
>> Indeed, the robo emails and robo phone calls I get is ample proof that
>> I'm being spied on. Not much I can do about it unless I want to live
>> like a hermit in a cave.
>>
>Or you could take a wow of poverty and live on top of a pillar like Simeon Stylites. He didn't have a phone on his pillar or in his pocket, presumably because he had no pocket..
>>
>I get an unsolicited call once in a blue moon on the landline. If it's a woman, she's in tears before I put the phone down, if it's a man he's soon reduced to foul language, which I record and send to the government enforcer of phone privacy. The reason I get so few calls is that I'm on a blacklist that these people maintain because they don't want their staff's confidence undermined.
>>
>As for my mobile phones, I receive no unsolicited calls on them. This is simple to arrange. First, buy what here is called a "pay as you go phone", which isn't tied to any network. Now choose your network but do it at one remove by buying a SIM card for that network on Ebay. This gives you a phone number you can use on any phone of your choosing without the provider having a record of your name. As the final step, at any store buy a slip of paper with a code on it which gives you x amount of credit with the network the SIM belongs to. Tell nobody except your close family and trusted business associates the number of your pocket phone. When the credit runs out, buy more. At the network side, you're just a number with a legal claim to make calls up to the limit you paid for; they don't know your name and can't call you to ask because then you dob them in to the enforcer. Next, get a VPN and load its app and associated shell apps onto your phone; be careful to set the VPN up to use
only
>servers in your own country, otherwise you can get hit with "roaming charges" levied on foreign calls. Use the VPN to stop the phone company tracking your precise position, so that they can't sell your phone number and your address by socio-economic class even if they don't have your name. All of this sounds like a lot to do, but you need only spend the ten minutes once for the life of the phone, and I tend to use the same phone for many years (I favour the unfashionably cheap but extremely sturdy Apple SE and tank-quality anti-shock D30-packed leather cases), and anyway, if you buy a phone with a competently programmed OS like an Apple, the transfer of software including VPN is painless because automated.
>>
>Andre Jute
>It ain't rocket science. Even Slow Joni the Thai Turd can probably get it right at his nineteenth try.
>>

It's easier for me to simply ignore the robocalls and e-mails than to
try to hide from them. If I answer or respond to them, it tells them
that there is a real person at that number or e-mail address.