Coming back from my ride today as I left the donut shop there was a growing group of cyclists that obviously were using the shop as a starting point of their ride. One of them was looking at me as I was leaving and said, "Be careful out there among the crazy drivers". I thanked him and 5 blocks later some asshole woman made a sharp right turn into a shopping area. I was alert but not that alert and actually hit her door as I made the turn JUST inside of the car. I maintained control other than cursing her out and all of her predecessors forever.

My intent was to follow her into the parking lots and then mark her parking spot and call the cops. Then it dawned on me - this is the NEW Democrat controlled California and there AREN'T any cops to call. All of the county cops are busy handling real crimes and Castro Valley doesn't have any cops because they aren't incorporated. I can only hope that sharp striking of my front wheel on her door put a large dent in the door.

IK wasn't hurt but anyone that didn't have my handling skills would have probably fallen down and there was a curb in just the right spot to hit your head.

On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 14:02:03 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>Coming back from my ride today as I left the donut shop there was a growing group of cyclists that obviously were using the shop as a starting point of their ride. One of them was looking at me as I was leaving and said, "Be careful out there among the crazy drivers". I thanked him and 5 blocks later some asshole woman made a sharp right turn into a shopping area. I was alert but not that alert and actually hit her door as I made the turn JUST inside of the car. I maintained control other than cursing her out and all of her predecessors forever.
>
>My intent was to follow her into the parking lots and then mark her parking spot and call the cops. Then it dawned on me - this is the NEW Democrat controlled California and there AREN'T any cops to call. All of the county cops are busy handling real crimes and Castro Valley doesn't have any cops because they aren't incorporated. I can only hope that sharp striking of my front wheel on her door put a large dent in the door.
>
>IK wasn't hurt but anyone that didn't have my handling skills would have probably fallen down and there was a curb in just the right spot to hit your head.

See Tom, you should listen to Frank and you'd learn something. He'd
teach you how to "jump" your bike and instead of running into the car
you could have jumped right over it.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 12/5/2023 7:14 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 14:02:03 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Coming back from my ride today as I left the donut shop there was a growing group of cyclists that obviously were using the shop as a starting point of their ride. One of them was looking at me as I was leaving and said, "Be careful out there among the crazy drivers". I thanked him and 5 blocks later some asshole woman made a sharp right turn into a shopping area. I was alert but not that alert and actually hit her door as I made the turn JUST inside of the car. I maintained control other than cursing her out and all of her predecessors forever.
>>
>> My intent was to follow her into the parking lots and then mark her parking spot and call the cops. Then it dawned on me - this is the NEW Democrat controlled California and there AREN'T any cops to call. All of the county cops are busy handling real crimes and Castro Valley doesn't have any cops because they aren't incorporated. I can only hope that sharp striking of my front wheel on her door put a large dent in the door.
>>
>> IK wasn't hurt but anyone that didn't have my handling skills would have probably fallen down and there was a curb in just the right spot to hit your head.
>
> See Tom, you should listen to Frank and you'd learn something. He'd
> teach you how to "jump" your bike and instead of running into the car
> you could have jumped right over it.

It sounds to me like Tom minimized his crash by making a snap turn -
something that you, John, mocked rather mercilessly.

It's good he had the skill to do that. The strategy some less skilled
cyclists use is to clamp on the brakes and go over the bars.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 23:08:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 12/5/2023 7:14 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 14:02:03 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Coming back from my ride today as I left the donut shop there was a growing group of cyclists that obviously were using the shop as a starting point of their ride. One of them was looking at me as I was leaving and said, "Be careful out there among the crazy drivers". I thanked him and 5 blocks later some asshole woman made a sharp right turn into a shopping area. I was alert but not that alert and actually hit her door as I made the turn JUST inside of the car. I maintained control other than cursing her out and all of her predecessors forever.
>>>
>>> My intent was to follow her into the parking lots and then mark her parking spot and call the cops. Then it dawned on me - this is the NEW Democrat controlled California and there AREN'T any cops to call. All of the county cops are busy handling real crimes and Castro Valley doesn't have any cops because they aren't incorporated. I can only hope that sharp striking of my front wheel on her door put a large dent in the door.
>>>
>>> IK wasn't hurt but anyone that didn't have my handling skills would have probably fallen down and there was a curb in just the right spot to hit your head.
>>
>> See Tom, you should listen to Frank and you'd learn something. He'd
>> teach you how to "jump" your bike and instead of running into the car
>> you could have jumped right over it.
>
>It sounds to me like Tom minimized his crash by making a snap turn -
>something that you, John, mocked rather mercilessly.

NObody mocked making a quick turn, only the claim to have someone
teach you how to do it.

>It's good he had the skill to do that.

I doubt that, like most bicyclists, he needed someone o teach him how
to do it.

>The strategy some less skilled
>cyclists use is to clamp on the brakes and go over the bars.

I've heard of people running straight on into dogs that have come out
to greet them.

On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 04:42:07 -0500, Catrike Rider
<soloman@drafting.not> wrote:

>On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 23:08:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>On 12/5/2023 7:14 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 14:02:03 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Coming back from my ride today as I left the donut shop there was a growing group of cyclists that obviously were using the shop as a starting point of their ride. One of them was looking at me as I was leaving and said, "Be careful out there among the crazy drivers". I thanked him and 5 blocks later some asshole woman made a sharp right turn into a shopping area. I was alert but not that alert and actually hit her door as I made the turn JUST inside of the car. I maintained control other than cursing her out and all of her predecessors forever.
>>>>
>>>> My intent was to follow her into the parking lots and then mark her parking spot and call the cops. Then it dawned on me - this is the NEW Democrat controlled California and there AREN'T any cops to call. All of the county cops are busy handling real crimes and Castro Valley doesn't have any cops because they aren't incorporated. I can only hope that sharp striking of my front wheel on her door put a large dent in the door.
>>>>

>>>> IK wasn't hurt but anyone that didn't have my handling skills would have probably fallen down and there was a curb in just the right spot to hit your head.
>>>
>>> See Tom, you should listen to Frank and you'd learn something. He'd
>>> teach you how to "jump" your bike and instead of running into the car
>>> you could have jumped right over it.
>>
>>It sounds to me like Tom minimized his crash by making a snap turn -
>>something that you, John, mocked rather mercilessly.
>
>NObody mocked making a quick turn, only the claim to have someone
>teach you how to do it.
>
>>It's good he had the skill to do that.
>
>I doubt that, like most bicyclists, he needed someone o teach him how
>to do it.
>
>>The strategy some less skilled
>>cyclists use is to clamp on the brakes and go over the bars.
>
>I've heard of people running straight on into dogs that have come out
>to greet them.

To be honest I'm a bit doubtful about Tom's "accident".

As I read his post it seem that he was riding down the side of the
road between a curb and (would you call it "lane"), portion of the
road where cars go, any way, and this car apparently came up beside
him and then turned, right,in front of him.

What was Tom doing? A car drives up beside you, and you ignore it?
Sort of a "F--K you, its my road", attitude? People in the States
don't pay attention to what is happening around them? The car must
have been traveling faster then Tom, wasn't he aware of cars speeding
up behind him? Didn't try to anticipate what other traffic will do?

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 17:40:08 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 04:42:07 -0500, Catrike Rider
><soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 23:08:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On 12/5/2023 7:14 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 14:02:03 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Coming back from my ride today as I left the donut shop there was a growing group of cyclists that obviously were using the shop as a starting point of their ride. One of them was looking at me as I was leaving and said, "Be careful out there among the crazy drivers". I thanked him and 5 blocks later some asshole woman made a sharp right turn into a shopping area. I was alert but not that alert and actually hit her door as I made the turn JUST inside of the car. I maintained control other than cursing her out and all of her predecessors forever.
>>>>>
>>>>> My intent was to follow her into the parking lots and then mark her parking spot and call the cops. Then it dawned on me - this is the NEW Democrat controlled California and there AREN'T any cops to call. All of the county cops are busy handling real crimes and Castro Valley doesn't have any cops because they aren't incorporated. I can only hope that sharp striking of my front wheel on her door put a large dent in the door.
>>>>>
>
>>>>> IK wasn't hurt but anyone that didn't have my handling skills would have probably fallen down and there was a curb in just the right spot to hit your head.
>>>>
>>>> See Tom, you should listen to Frank and you'd learn something. He'd
>>>> teach you how to "jump" your bike and instead of running into the car
>>>> you could have jumped right over it.
>>>
>>>It sounds to me like Tom minimized his crash by making a snap turn -
>>>something that you, John, mocked rather mercilessly.
>>
>>NObody mocked making a quick turn, only the claim to have someone
>>teach you how to do it.
>>
>>>It's good he had the skill to do that.
>>
>>I doubt that, like most bicyclists, he needed someone o teach him how
>>to do it.
>>
>>>The strategy some less skilled
>>>cyclists use is to clamp on the brakes and go over the bars.
>>
>>I've heard of people running straight on into dogs that have come out
>>to greet them.
>
>To be honest I'm a bit doubtful about Tom's "accident".
>
>As I read his post it seem that he was riding down the side of the
>road between a curb and (would you call it "lane"), portion of the
>road where cars go, any way, and this car apparently came up beside
>him and then turned, right,in front of him.
>
>What was Tom doing? A car drives up beside you, and you ignore it?
>Sort of a "F--K you, its my road", attitude? People in the States
>don't pay attention to what is happening around them? The car must
>have been traveling faster then Tom, wasn't he aware of cars speeding
>up behind him? Didn't try to anticipate what other traffic will do?

I've had that happen when I was riding a "sidepath" (a bike path
several feet from the street, running parallel to it) That's why I
consider riding against the traffic much safer when on such a path, as
I was just yesterday.

I don't like having people behind me, especially people in cars and
trucks.

Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 17:40:08 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 04:42:07 -0500, Catrike Rider
>> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 23:08:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/5/2023 7:14 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 14:02:03 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Coming back from my ride today as I left the donut shop there was a
>>>>>> growing group of cyclists that obviously were using the shop as a
>>>>>> starting point of their ride. One of them was looking at me as I was
>>>>>> leaving and said, "Be careful out there among the crazy drivers". I
>>>>>> thanked him and 5 blocks later some asshole woman made a sharp right
>>>>>> turn into a shopping area. I was alert but not that alert and
>>>>>> actually hit her door as I made the turn JUST inside of the car. I
>>>>>> maintained control other than cursing her out and all of her predecessors forever.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My intent was to follow her into the parking lots and then mark her
>>>>>> parking spot and call the cops. Then it dawned on me - this is the
>>>>>> NEW Democrat controlled California and there AREN'T any cops to
>>>>>> call. All of the county cops are busy handling real crimes and
>>>>>> Castro Valley doesn't have any cops because they aren't
>>>>>> incorporated. I can only hope that sharp striking of my front wheel
>>>>>> on her door put a large dent in the door.
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>> IK wasn't hurt but anyone that didn't have my handling skills would
>>>>>> have probably fallen down and there was a curb in just the right
>>>>>> spot to hit your head.
>>>>>
>>>>> See Tom, you should listen to Frank and you'd learn something. He'd
>>>>> teach you how to "jump" your bike and instead of running into the car
>>>>> you could have jumped right over it.
>>>>
>>>> It sounds to me like Tom minimized his crash by making a snap turn -
>>>> something that you, John, mocked rather mercilessly.
>>>
>>> NObody mocked making a quick turn, only the claim to have someone
>>> teach you how to do it.
>>>
>>>> It's good he had the skill to do that.
>>>
>>> I doubt that, like most bicyclists, he needed someone o teach him how
>>> to do it.
>>>
>>>> The strategy some less skilled
>>>> cyclists use is to clamp on the brakes and go over the bars.
>>>
>>> I've heard of people running straight on into dogs that have come out
>>> to greet them.
>>
>> To be honest I'm a bit doubtful about Tom's "accident".
>>
>> As I read his post it seem that he was riding down the side of the
>> road between a curb and (would you call it "lane"), portion of the
>> road where cars go, any way, and this car apparently came up beside
>> him and then turned, right,in front of him.
>>
>> What was Tom doing? A car drives up beside you, and you ignore it?
>> Sort of a "F--K you, its my road", attitude? People in the States
>> don't pay attention to what is happening around them? The car must
>> have been traveling faster then Tom, wasn't he aware of cars speeding
>> up behind him? Didn't try to anticipate what other traffic will do?
>
> I've had that happen when I was riding a "sidepath" (a bike path
> several feet from the street, running parallel to it) That's why I
> consider riding against the traffic much safer when on such a path, as
> I was just yesterday.
>
> I don't like having people behind me, especially people in cars and
> trucks.
>

I’ve never had it make contact, but I’ve certainly had to brake/manoeuvre
to avoid cars over the years,somewhat rare to be honest!

Roger Merriman

On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 15:06:37 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>> On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 17:40:08 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 04:42:07 -0500, Catrike Rider
>>> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 23:08:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/5/2023 7:14 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 14:02:03 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Coming back from my ride today as I left the donut shop there was a
>>>>>>> growing group of cyclists that obviously were using the shop as a
>>>>>>> starting point of their ride. One of them was looking at me as I was
>>>>>>> leaving and said, "Be careful out there among the crazy drivers". I
>>>>>>> thanked him and 5 blocks later some asshole woman made a sharp right
>>>>>>> turn into a shopping area. I was alert but not that alert and
>>>>>>> actually hit her door as I made the turn JUST inside of the car. I
>>>>>>> maintained control other than cursing her out and all of her predecessors forever.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My intent was to follow her into the parking lots and then mark her
>>>>>>> parking spot and call the cops. Then it dawned on me - this is the
>>>>>>> NEW Democrat controlled California and there AREN'T any cops to
>>>>>>> call. All of the county cops are busy handling real crimes and
>>>>>>> Castro Valley doesn't have any cops because they aren't
>>>>>>> incorporated. I can only hope that sharp striking of my front wheel
>>>>>>> on her door put a large dent in the door.
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> IK wasn't hurt but anyone that didn't have my handling skills would
>>>>>>> have probably fallen down and there was a curb in just the right
>>>>>>> spot to hit your head.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See Tom, you should listen to Frank and you'd learn something. He'd
>>>>>> teach you how to "jump" your bike and instead of running into the car
>>>>>> you could have jumped right over it.
>>>>>
>>>>> It sounds to me like Tom minimized his crash by making a snap turn -
>>>>> something that you, John, mocked rather mercilessly.
>>>>
>>>> NObody mocked making a quick turn, only the claim to have someone
>>>> teach you how to do it.
>>>>
>>>>> It's good he had the skill to do that.
>>>>
>>>> I doubt that, like most bicyclists, he needed someone o teach him how
>>>> to do it.
>>>>
>>>>> The strategy some less skilled
>>>>> cyclists use is to clamp on the brakes and go over the bars.
>>>>
>>>> I've heard of people running straight on into dogs that have come out
>>>> to greet them.
>>>
>>> To be honest I'm a bit doubtful about Tom's "accident".
>>>
>>> As I read his post it seem that he was riding down the side of the
>>> road between a curb and (would you call it "lane"), portion of the
>>> road where cars go, any way, and this car apparently came up beside
>>> him and then turned, right,in front of him.
>>>
>>> What was Tom doing? A car drives up beside you, and you ignore it?
>>> Sort of a "F--K you, its my road", attitude? People in the States
>>> don't pay attention to what is happening around them? The car must
>>> have been traveling faster then Tom, wasn't he aware of cars speeding
>>> up behind him? Didn't try to anticipate what other traffic will do?
>>
>> I've had that happen when I was riding a "sidepath" (a bike path
>> several feet from the street, running parallel to it) That's why I
>> consider riding against the traffic much safer when on such a path, as
>> I was just yesterday.
>>
>> I don't like having people behind me, especially people in cars and
>> trucks.
>>
>
>I’ve never had it make contact, but I’ve certainly had to brake/manoeuvre
>to avoid cars over the years,somewhat rare to be honest!
>
>Roger Merriman

I don't even tolerate bicycles riding too close behind me. By "too
close" I means being less than about twenty feet for more than about
30 seconds. I won't follow anyone like that either. Actually I won't
follow anyone for any reason, anywhere.

On 12/6/2023 5:40 AM, John B. wrote:
>
> To be honest I'm a bit doubtful about Tom's "accident".

Of course. You're among those here who refuse to believe anything that
conflicts with your previously stated views.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 15:06:37 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 17:40:08 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 04:42:07 -0500, Catrike Rider
>>>> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 23:08:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/5/2023 7:14 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 14:02:03 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Coming back from my ride today as I left the donut shop there was a
>>>>>>>> growing group of cyclists that obviously were using the shop as a
>>>>>>>> starting point of their ride. One of them was looking at me as I was
>>>>>>>> leaving and said, "Be careful out there among the crazy drivers". I
>>>>>>>> thanked him and 5 blocks later some asshole woman made a sharp right
>>>>>>>> turn into a shopping area. I was alert but not that alert and
>>>>>>>> actually hit her door as I made the turn JUST inside of the car. I
>>>>>>>> maintained control other than cursing her out and all of her predecessors forever.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My intent was to follow her into the parking lots and then mark her
>>>>>>>> parking spot and call the cops. Then it dawned on me - this is the
>>>>>>>> NEW Democrat controlled California and there AREN'T any cops to
>>>>>>>> call. All of the county cops are busy handling real crimes and
>>>>>>>> Castro Valley doesn't have any cops because they aren't
>>>>>>>> incorporated. I can only hope that sharp striking of my front wheel
>>>>>>>> on her door put a large dent in the door.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> IK wasn't hurt but anyone that didn't have my handling skills would
>>>>>>>> have probably fallen down and there was a curb in just the right
>>>>>>>> spot to hit your head.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> See Tom, you should listen to Frank and you'd learn something. He'd
>>>>>>> teach you how to "jump" your bike and instead of running into the car
>>>>>>> you could have jumped right over it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It sounds to me like Tom minimized his crash by making a snap turn -
>>>>>> something that you, John, mocked rather mercilessly.
>>>>>
>>>>> NObody mocked making a quick turn, only the claim to have someone
>>>>> teach you how to do it.
>>>>>
>>>>>> It's good he had the skill to do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I doubt that, like most bicyclists, he needed someone o teach him how
>>>>> to do it.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The strategy some less skilled
>>>>>> cyclists use is to clamp on the brakes and go over the bars.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've heard of people running straight on into dogs that have come out
>>>>> to greet them.
>>>>
>>>> To be honest I'm a bit doubtful about Tom's "accident".
>>>>
>>>> As I read his post it seem that he was riding down the side of the
>>>> road between a curb and (would you call it "lane"), portion of the
>>>> road where cars go, any way, and this car apparently came up beside
>>>> him and then turned, right,in front of him.
>>>>
>>>> What was Tom doing? A car drives up beside you, and you ignore it?
>>>> Sort of a "F--K you, its my road", attitude? People in the States
>>>> don't pay attention to what is happening around them? The car must
>>>> have been traveling faster then Tom, wasn't he aware of cars speeding
>>>> up behind him? Didn't try to anticipate what other traffic will do?
>>>
>>> I've had that happen when I was riding a "sidepath" (a bike path
>>> several feet from the street, running parallel to it) That's why I
>>> consider riding against the traffic much safer when on such a path, as
>>> I was just yesterday.
>>>
>>> I don't like having people behind me, especially people in cars and
>>> trucks.
>>>
>>
>> I’ve never had it make contact, but I’ve certainly had to brake/manoeuvre
>> to avoid cars over the years,somewhat rare to be honest!
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> I don't even tolerate bicycles riding too close behind me. By "too
> close" I means being less than about twenty feet for more than about
> 30 seconds. I won't follow anyone like that either. Actually I won't
> follow anyone for any reason, anywhere.
>

I’m not wild on folks being that close but sometimes just is.

More normally right/left hook is due to a car overtaking and then
forgetting/not looking that there is bike who they are turning into the
path, some areas are more prone to this than others.

Roger Merriman

On Wednesday, December 6, 2023 at 3:20:58 AM UTC-8, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 17:40:08 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 04:42:07 -0500, Catrike Rider
> ><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >
> >>On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 23:08:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >><frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>>On 12/5/2023 7:14 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>> On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 14:02:03 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> >>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Coming back from my ride today as I left the donut shop there was a growing group of cyclists that obviously were using the shop as a starting point of their ride. One of them was looking at me as I was leaving and said, "Be careful out there among the crazy drivers". I thanked him and 5 blocks later some asshole woman made a sharp right turn into a shopping area. I was alert but not that alert and actually hit her door as I made the turn JUST inside of the car. I maintained control other than cursing her out and all of her predecessors forever.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My intent was to follow her into the parking lots and then mark her parking spot and call the cops. Then it dawned on me - this is the NEW Democrat controlled California and there AREN'T any cops to call. All of the county cops are busy handling real crimes and Castro Valley doesn't have any cops because they aren't incorporated. I can only hope that sharp striking of my front wheel on her door put a large dent in the door.
> >>>>>
> >
> >>>>> IK wasn't hurt but anyone that didn't have my handling skills would have probably fallen down and there was a curb in just the right spot to hit your head.
> >>>>
> >>>> See Tom, you should listen to Frank and you'd learn something. He'd
> >>>> teach you how to "jump" your bike and instead of running into the car
> >>>> you could have jumped right over it.
> >>>
> >>>It sounds to me like Tom minimized his crash by making a snap turn -
> >>>something that you, John, mocked rather mercilessly.
> >>
> >>NObody mocked making a quick turn, only the claim to have someone
> >>teach you how to do it.
> >>
> >>>It's good he had the skill to do that.
> >>
> >>I doubt that, like most bicyclists, he needed someone o teach him how
> >>to do it.
> >>
> >>>The strategy some less skilled
> >>>cyclists use is to clamp on the brakes and go over the bars.
> >>
> >>I've heard of people running straight on into dogs that have come out
> >>to greet them.
> >
> >To be honest I'm a bit doubtful about Tom's "accident".
> >
> >As I read his post it seem that he was riding down the side of the
> >road between a curb and (would you call it "lane"), portion of the
> >road where cars go, any way, and this car apparently came up beside
> >him and then turned, right,in front of him.
> >
> >What was Tom doing? A car drives up beside you, and you ignore it?
> >Sort of a "F--K you, its my road", attitude? People in the States
> >don't pay attention to what is happening around them? The car must
> >have been traveling faster then Tom, wasn't he aware of cars speeding
> >up behind him? Didn't try to anticipate what other traffic will do?
> I've had that happen when I was riding a "sidepath" (a bike path
> several feet from the street, running parallel to it) That's why I
> consider riding against the traffic much safer when on such a path, as
> I was just yesterday.
>
> I don't like having people behind me, especially people in cars and
> trucks.

Slocomb can't understand what occurred yet more proof that despite his bald faced lies he hasn't ridden a bicycle since he was a kid and cars hadn't yet been invented.

On Wednesday, December 6, 2023 at 8:05:40 AM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> > On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 15:06:37 GMT, Roger Merriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 17:40:08 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 04:42:07 -0500, Catrike Rider
> >>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 23:08:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 12/5/2023 7:14 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 14:02:03 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> >>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Coming back from my ride today as I left the donut shop there was a
> >>>>>>>> growing group of cyclists that obviously were using the shop as a
> >>>>>>>> starting point of their ride. One of them was looking at me as I was
> >>>>>>>> leaving and said, "Be careful out there among the crazy drivers".. I
> >>>>>>>> thanked him and 5 blocks later some asshole woman made a sharp right
> >>>>>>>> turn into a shopping area. I was alert but not that alert and
> >>>>>>>> actually hit her door as I made the turn JUST inside of the car. I
> >>>>>>>> maintained control other than cursing her out and all of her predecessors forever.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> My intent was to follow her into the parking lots and then mark her
> >>>>>>>> parking spot and call the cops. Then it dawned on me - this is the
> >>>>>>>> NEW Democrat controlled California and there AREN'T any cops to
> >>>>>>>> call. All of the county cops are busy handling real crimes and
> >>>>>>>> Castro Valley doesn't have any cops because they aren't
> >>>>>>>> incorporated. I can only hope that sharp striking of my front wheel
> >>>>>>>> on her door put a large dent in the door.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>> IK wasn't hurt but anyone that didn't have my handling skills would
> >>>>>>>> have probably fallen down and there was a curb in just the right
> >>>>>>>> spot to hit your head.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> See Tom, you should listen to Frank and you'd learn something. He'd
> >>>>>>> teach you how to "jump" your bike and instead of running into the car
> >>>>>>> you could have jumped right over it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It sounds to me like Tom minimized his crash by making a snap turn -
> >>>>>> something that you, John, mocked rather mercilessly.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> NObody mocked making a quick turn, only the claim to have someone
> >>>>> teach you how to do it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> It's good he had the skill to do that.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I doubt that, like most bicyclists, he needed someone o teach him how
> >>>>> to do it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> The strategy some less skilled
> >>>>>> cyclists use is to clamp on the brakes and go over the bars.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I've heard of people running straight on into dogs that have come out
> >>>>> to greet them.
> >>>>
> >>>> To be honest I'm a bit doubtful about Tom's "accident".
> >>>>
> >>>> As I read his post it seem that he was riding down the side of the
> >>>> road between a curb and (would you call it "lane"), portion of the
> >>>> road where cars go, any way, and this car apparently came up beside
> >>>> him and then turned, right,in front of him.
> >>>>
> >>>> What was Tom doing? A car drives up beside you, and you ignore it?
> >>>> Sort of a "F--K you, its my road", attitude? People in the States
> >>>> don't pay attention to what is happening around them? The car must
> >>>> have been traveling faster then Tom, wasn't he aware of cars speeding
> >>>> up behind him? Didn't try to anticipate what other traffic will do?
> >>>
> >>> I've had that happen when I was riding a "sidepath" (a bike path
> >>> several feet from the street, running parallel to it) That's why I
> >>> consider riding against the traffic much safer when on such a path, as
> >>> I was just yesterday.
> >>>
> >>> I don't like having people behind me, especially people in cars and
> >>> trucks.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I’ve never had it make contact, but I’ve certainly had to brake/manoeuvre
> >> to avoid cars over the years,somewhat rare to be honest!
> >>
> >> Roger Merriman
> >
> > I don't even tolerate bicycles ridipl;.,,,,,,,,,,,edsng too close behind me. By "too
> > close" I means being less than about twenty feet for more than about
> > 30 seconds. I won't follow anyone like that either. Actually I won't
> > follow anyone for any reason, anywhere.
> >
> I’m not wild on folks being that close but sometimes just is.
>
> More normally right/left hook is due to a car overtaking and then
> forgetting/not looking that there is bike who they are turning into the
> path, some areas are more prone to this than others.
>
> Roger Merriman
She quite purposely tried to cut me off. There was a car in front of her that paused and looked back at me to be sure he had clearance and then safely proceeded. So there is no doubt that she knew I was there.

On 12/6/2023 11:05 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>
> More normally right/left hook is due to a car overtaking and then
> forgetting/not looking that there is bike who they are turning into the
> path, some areas are more prone to this than others.

Bike lanes that hide cyclists off to the curb side probably exacerbate
this problem. Cyclists who ride near lane center are pretty immune to
right hooks.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 16:05:37 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>> On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 15:06:37 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 17:40:08 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 04:42:07 -0500, Catrike Rider
>>>>> <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 23:08:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/5/2023 7:14 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 14:02:03 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Coming back from my ride today as I left the donut shop there was a
>>>>>>>>> growing group of cyclists that obviously were using the shop as a
>>>>>>>>> starting point of their ride. One of them was looking at me as I was
>>>>>>>>> leaving and said, "Be careful out there among the crazy drivers". I
>>>>>>>>> thanked him and 5 blocks later some asshole woman made a sharp right
>>>>>>>>> turn into a shopping area. I was alert but not that alert and
>>>>>>>>> actually hit her door as I made the turn JUST inside of the car. I
>>>>>>>>> maintained control other than cursing her out and all of her predecessors forever.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My intent was to follow her into the parking lots and then mark her
>>>>>>>>> parking spot and call the cops. Then it dawned on me - this is the
>>>>>>>>> NEW Democrat controlled California and there AREN'T any cops to
>>>>>>>>> call. All of the county cops are busy handling real crimes and
>>>>>>>>> Castro Valley doesn't have any cops because they aren't
>>>>>>>>> incorporated. I can only hope that sharp striking of my front wheel
>>>>>>>>> on her door put a large dent in the door.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IK wasn't hurt but anyone that didn't have my handling skills would
>>>>>>>>> have probably fallen down and there was a curb in just the right
>>>>>>>>> spot to hit your head.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> See Tom, you should listen to Frank and you'd learn something. He'd
>>>>>>>> teach you how to "jump" your bike and instead of running into the car
>>>>>>>> you could have jumped right over it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It sounds to me like Tom minimized his crash by making a snap turn -
>>>>>>> something that you, John, mocked rather mercilessly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NObody mocked making a quick turn, only the claim to have someone
>>>>>> teach you how to do it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's good he had the skill to do that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I doubt that, like most bicyclists, he needed someone o teach him how
>>>>>> to do it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The strategy some less skilled
>>>>>>> cyclists use is to clamp on the brakes and go over the bars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've heard of people running straight on into dogs that have come out
>>>>>> to greet them.
>>>>>
>>>>> To be honest I'm a bit doubtful about Tom's "accident".
>>>>>
>>>>> As I read his post it seem that he was riding down the side of the
>>>>> road between a curb and (would you call it "lane"), portion of the
>>>>> road where cars go, any way, and this car apparently came up beside
>>>>> him and then turned, right,in front of him.
>>>>>
>>>>> What was Tom doing? A car drives up beside you, and you ignore it?
>>>>> Sort of a "F--K you, its my road", attitude? People in the States
>>>>> don't pay attention to what is happening around them? The car must
>>>>> have been traveling faster then Tom, wasn't he aware of cars speeding
>>>>> up behind him? Didn't try to anticipate what other traffic will do?
>>>>
>>>> I've had that happen when I was riding a "sidepath" (a bike path
>>>> several feet from the street, running parallel to it) That's why I
>>>> consider riding against the traffic much safer when on such a path, as
>>>> I was just yesterday.
>>>>
>>>> I don't like having people behind me, especially people in cars and
>>>> trucks.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I?ve never had it make contact, but I?ve certainly had to brake/manoeuvre
>>> to avoid cars over the years,somewhat rare to be honest!
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> I don't even tolerate bicycles riding too close behind me. By "too
>> close" I means being less than about twenty feet for more than about
>> 30 seconds. I won't follow anyone like that either. Actually I won't
>> follow anyone for any reason, anywhere.
>>
>
>I’m not wild on folks being that close but sometimes just is.
>
>More normally right/left hook is due to a car overtaking and then
>forgetting/not looking that there is bike who they are turning into the
>path, some areas are more prone to this than others.
>
>Roger Merriman

If I can't drop a tailgater, which is often the case nowdays, I'll
just pull over and take a rest stop.

On Wed, 6 Dec 2023 10:44:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 12/6/2023 5:40 AM, John B. wrote:
>>
>> To be honest I'm a bit doubtful about Tom's "accident".
>
>Of course. You're among those here who refuse to believe anything that
>conflicts with your previously stated views.

I think that Frankie is unhappy that people are sticking with their
own opinions and choices and not being persuaded by his rhetoric, but
then, he certainly hasn't displayed much of an open mind himself.

On Wed, 6 Dec 2023 08:07:28 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, December 6, 2023 at 3:20:58?AM UTC-8, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 17:40:08 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 04:42:07 -0500, Catrike Rider
>> ><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 23:08:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> >><frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>On 12/5/2023 7:14 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >>>> On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 14:02:03 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> >>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Coming back from my ride today as I left the donut shop there was a growing group of cyclists that obviously were using the shop as a starting point of their ride. One of them was looking at me as I was leaving and said, "Be careful out there among the crazy drivers". I thanked him and 5 blocks later some asshole woman made a sharp right turn into a shopping area. I was alert but not that alert and actually hit her door as I made the turn JUST inside of the car. I maintained control other than cursing her out and all of her predecessors forever.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> My intent was to follow her into the parking lots and then mark her parking spot and call the cops. Then it dawned on me - this is the NEW Democrat controlled California and there AREN'T any cops to call. All of the county cops are busy handling real crimes and Castro Valley doesn't have any cops because they aren't incorporated. I can only hope that sharp striking of my front wheel on her door put a large dent in the door.
>> >>>>>
>> >
>> >>>>> IK wasn't hurt but anyone that didn't have my handling skills would have probably fallen down and there was a curb in just the right spot to hit your head.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> See Tom, you should listen to Frank and you'd learn something. He'd
>> >>>> teach you how to "jump" your bike and instead of running into the car
>> >>>> you could have jumped right over it.
>> >>>
>> >>>It sounds to me like Tom minimized his crash by making a snap turn -
>> >>>something that you, John, mocked rather mercilessly.
>> >>
>> >>NObody mocked making a quick turn, only the claim to have someone
>> >>teach you how to do it.
>> >>
>> >>>It's good he had the skill to do that.
>> >>
>> >>I doubt that, like most bicyclists, he needed someone o teach him how
>> >>to do it.
>> >>
>> >>>The strategy some less skilled
>> >>>cyclists use is to clamp on the brakes and go over the bars.
>> >>
>> >>I've heard of people running straight on into dogs that have come out
>> >>to greet them.
>> >
>> >To be honest I'm a bit doubtful about Tom's "accident".
>> >
>> >As I read his post it seem that he was riding down the side of the
>> >road between a curb and (would you call it "lane"), portion of the
>> >road where cars go, any way, and this car apparently came up beside
>> >him and then turned, right,in front of him.
>> >
>> >What was Tom doing? A car drives up beside you, and you ignore it?
>> >Sort of a "F--K you, its my road", attitude? People in the States
>> >don't pay attention to what is happening around them? The car must
>> >have been traveling faster then Tom, wasn't he aware of cars speeding
>> >up behind him? Didn't try to anticipate what other traffic will do?
>> I've had that happen when I was riding a "sidepath" (a bike path
>> several feet from the street, running parallel to it) That's why I
>> consider riding against the traffic much safer when on such a path, as
>> I was just yesterday.
>>
>> I don't like having people behind me, especially people in cars and
>> trucks.
>
>Slocomb can't understand what occurred yet more proof that despite his bald faced lies he hasn't ridden a bicycle since he was a kid and cars hadn't yet been invented.

Nice one Tommy. Now tell us how you know that I haven't ridden a bike
since I was a kid?

Or is this just one more of you multitude of lies? What's the count
now? The last time I looked the count was that you had told the truth
only 3 (or was it 4) times in the past 18 years.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 13:51:22 -0500, Catrike Rider
<soloman@drafting.not> wrote:

>On Wed, 6 Dec 2023 10:44:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski
><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>On 12/6/2023 5:40 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>
>>> To be honest I'm a bit doubtful about Tom's "accident".
>>
>>Of course. You're among those here who refuse to believe anything that
>>conflicts with your previously stated views.
>
>
>I think that Frankie is unhappy that people are sticking with their
>own opinions and choices and not being persuaded by his rhetoric, but
>then, he certainly hasn't displayed much of an open mind himself.

I find Frank's statement a bit.... well not a bit, rather greatly..
humorous as this is exactly the attitude he displays.
Ranging from the terrifying black pickups to his vast knowledge of
firearms (I shot a .22 a few times) he has repeatedly shown that as an
bigot he knows no peers.

bigot ~ noun - A prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions
differing from his own

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 07 Dec 2023 08:22:52 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 13:51:22 -0500, Catrike Rider
><soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 6 Dec 2023 10:44:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On 12/6/2023 5:40 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> To be honest I'm a bit doubtful about Tom's "accident".
>>>
>>>Of course. You're among those here who refuse to believe anything that
>>>conflicts with your previously stated views.
>>
>>
>>I think that Frankie is unhappy that people are sticking with their
>>own opinions and choices and not being persuaded by his rhetoric, but
>>then, he certainly hasn't displayed much of an open mind himself.
>
>I find Frank's statement a bit.... well not a bit, rather greatly..
>humorous as this is exactly the attitude he displays.
>Ranging from the terrifying black pickups to his vast knowledge of
>firearms (I shot a .22 a few times) he has repeatedly shown that as an
>bigot he knows no peers.
>
>bigot ~ noun - A prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions
>differing from his own

Narcissistic projection is a behavior that manifests when someone with
a narcissistic personality projects a trait or behavior onto another
person. It can happen in any relationship but may be common between
people with narcissism and very empathetic people, also called
empaths.

The tricky thing about projection is that most people aren’t aware
they’re doing it. And since narcissism is linked to lower emotional
intelligence, someone with a narcissistic personality may be
especially unlikely to recognize that they’re projecting.
https://psychcentral.com/disorders/narcissistic-projection#narcissistic-projection-defined

More interesting reading here:

What is emotional intelligence?

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-emotional-intelligence-2795423

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 12/6/2023 11:05 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>
>> More normally right/left hook is due to a car overtaking and then
>> forgetting/not looking that there is bike who they are turning into the
>> path, some areas are more prone to this than others.
>
> Bike lanes that hide cyclists off to the curb side probably exacerbate
> this problem. Cyclists who ride near lane center are pretty immune to
> right hooks.
>

The painted ones certainly, though even then the area seems to make more
effect.

I pass one on the commute but since the side roads are just the estate and
can’t be used for rat running etc, as the railway/river/parks so traffic is
all heading along the road it’s a rubbish and pointless cycle lane but it
is benign, unlike some other places where get a lot of turning traffic, and
such painted cyclelanes are a net negative. Road near my wife’s work is
like that or used to be they have put in a LTN ie large planters which has
stopped the rat running traffic. Which has calmed that sort of stuff a
touch.

Roger Merriman

On Thursday, December 7, 2023 at 4:20:19 AM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > On 12/6/2023 11:05 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>
> >> More normally right/left hook is due to a car overtaking and then
> >> forgetting/not looking that there is bike who they are turning into the
> >> path, some areas are more prone to this than others.
> >
> > Bike lanes that hide cyclists off to the curb side probably exacerbate
> > this problem. Cyclists who ride near lane center are pretty immune to
> > right hooks.
> >
> The painted ones certainly, though even then the area seems to make more
> effect.
>
> I pass one on the commute but since the side roads are just the estate and
> can’t be used for rat running etc, as the railway/river/parks so traffic is
> all heading along the road it’s a rubbish and pointless cycle lane but it
> is benign, unlike some other places where get a lot of turning traffic, and
> such painted cyclelanes are a net negative. Road near my wife’s work is
> like that or used to be they have put in a LTN ie large planters which has
> stopped the rat running traffic. Which has calmed that sort of stuff a
> touch.
>
> Roger Merriman

Yet another proof that Frank takes the entire lane in traffic. But of course he doesn't because some insane driver would run him over. So again he is so full of it, it is coming out of this ears. Without bike lanes bikes ride in the same position on the streets but they don't have a white line reminding drivers to beware. I don't know how long I can take Frank claiming he rides when every comment he makes proves he doesn't.

On 12/6/2023 8:22 PM, John B. wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 6 Dec 2023 10:44:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/6/2023 5:40 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> To be honest I'm a bit doubtful about Tom's "accident".
>>>
>>> Of course. You're among those here who refuse to believe anything that
>>> conflicts with your previously stated views.
>
> I find Frank's statement a bit.... well not a bit, rather greatly..
> humorous as this is exactly the attitude he displays.
> Ranging from the terrifying black pickups to his vast knowledge of
> firearms (I shot a .22 a few times)...

In other words, what John just said in this discussion didn't convince
anyone, so he's returning to lying about previous discussions where he
pretends he did better.

Quit the straw man bullshit, John. Quote me, don't use imaginary
paraphrasing. And try to stay on topic.

You expressed skepticism about the value of doing a quick turn to avoid
or minimize a crash. But Tom just had such an incident, and he's not
generally been an ally of mine in these discussions.

Deal with it.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 12/7/2023 10:40 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, December 7, 2023 at 4:20:19 AM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> On 12/6/2023 11:05 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> More normally right/left hook is due to a car overtaking and then
>>>> forgetting/not looking that there is bike who they are turning into the
>>>> path, some areas are more prone to this than others.
>>>
>>> Bike lanes that hide cyclists off to the curb side probably exacerbate
>>> this problem. Cyclists who ride near lane center are pretty immune to
>>> right hooks.
>>>
>> The painted ones certainly, though even then the area seems to make more
>> effect.
>>
>> I pass one on the commute but since the side roads are just the estate and
>> can’t be used for rat running etc, as the railway/river/parks so traffic is
>> all heading along the road it’s a rubbish and pointless cycle lane but it
>> is benign, unlike some other places where get a lot of turning traffic, and
>> such painted cyclelanes are a net negative. Road near my wife’s work is
>> like that or used to be they have put in a LTN ie large planters which has
>> stopped the rat running traffic. Which has calmed that sort of stuff a
>> touch.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> Yet another proof that Frank takes the entire lane in traffic. But of course he doesn't because some insane driver would run him over. So again he is so full of it, it is coming out of this ears. Without bike lanes bikes ride in the same position on the streets but they don't have a white line reminding drivers to beware.

I don't _always_ ride lane center; but it is my default position. (In
Britain, they call it the "primary position," the one a cyclist should
normally use.)

If a lane is wide enough to safely share, I share it; but that takes
much more lane width than most people realize. See
https://cyclingsavvy.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/large-vehicles-and-lane-width.png.webp

On some roads, if "safely share" is marginal, I ride lane center until I
see motorists slowing down a bit behind me. At that point I move right.
It's called "control and release" and it works well.

We have relatively few bike lanes around here, thankfully. We do have
lots of rural roads with shoulders delineated by fog lines. I noticed
long, long ago that if I ride just to the right of the fog line, many
motorists don't adjust their lane position at all. They assume that I'll
stay to the right of the line and they pass quite closely. On the same
road, if I ride just left of the line, they'll shift leftward and give
me more room.

But I'll note that in my state and I believe most states, a cyclist does
have full rights to the road by law. If a lane is too narrow to safely
share, he is not legally required to share it. In that instance, riding
lane center is both legal and safer. Motorists can pass by moving
leftward when it's safe.

Those who dispute that are anti-cycling.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, December 7, 2023 at 4:20:19 AM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> On 12/6/2023 11:05 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> More normally right/left hook is due to a car overtaking and then
>>>> forgetting/not looking that there is bike who they are turning into the
>>>> path, some areas are more prone to this than others.
>>>
>>> Bike lanes that hide cyclists off to the curb side probably exacerbate
>>> this problem. Cyclists who ride near lane center are pretty immune to
>>> right hooks.
>>>
>> The painted ones certainly, though even then the area seems to make more
>> effect.
>>
>> I pass one on the commute but since the side roads are just the estate and
>> can’t be used for rat running etc, as the railway/river/parks so traffic is
>> all heading along the road it’s a rubbish and pointless cycle lane but it
>> is benign, unlike some other places where get a lot of turning traffic, and
>> such painted cyclelanes are a net negative. Road near my wife’s work is
>> like that or used to be they have put in a LTN ie large planters which has
>> stopped the rat running traffic. Which has calmed that sort of stuff a
>> touch.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> Yet another proof that Frank takes the entire lane in traffic. But of
> course he doesn't because some insane driver would run him over. So again
> he is so full of it, it is coming out of this ears. Without bike lanes
> bikes ride in the same position on the streets but they don't have a
> white line reminding drivers to beware. I don't know how long I can take
> Frank claiming he rides when every comment he makes proves he doesn't.
>

No some bike lanes are remarkably narrow and really are in the gutter, this
being london such stuff is disappearing though plenty of WTF where they
thinking if one has the time to look.

My position like a lot of cyclists depends on the situation, unlike Frank
I’m pragmatic rather than dogmatic about cycle infrastructure or lack of
it.

Roger Merriman

On Thu, 7 Dec 2023 07:40:57 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, December 7, 2023 at 4:20:19?AM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> > On 12/6/2023 11:05 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> >>
>> >> More normally right/left hook is due to a car overtaking and then
>> >> forgetting/not looking that there is bike who they are turning into the
>> >> path, some areas are more prone to this than others.
>> >
>> > Bike lanes that hide cyclists off to the curb side probably exacerbate
>> > this problem. Cyclists who ride near lane center are pretty immune to
>> > right hooks.
>> >
>> The painted ones certainly, though even then the area seems to make more
>> effect.
>>
>> I pass one on the commute but since the side roads are just the estate and
>> can’t be used for rat running etc, as the railway/river/parks so traffic is
>> all heading along the road it’s a rubbish and pointless cycle lane but it
>> is benign, unlike some other places where get a lot of turning traffic, and
>> such painted cyclelanes are a net negative. Road near my wife’s work is
>> like that or used to be they have put in a LTN ie large planters which has
>> stopped the rat running traffic. Which has calmed that sort of stuff a
>> touch.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
>Yet another proof that Frank takes the entire lane in traffic. But of course he doesn't because some insane driver would run him over. So again he is so full of it, it is coming out of this ears. Without bike lanes bikes ride in the same position on the streets but they don't have a white line reminding drivers to beware. I don't know how long I can take Frank claiming he rides when every comment he makes proves he doesn't.

Frank's statement doesn't make much sense although it probably does
prevent right hook crashes.

But "Lane center"? The roads I ride on are 4 to 6 lane with traffic
in the 100 - 120 KPH range with, some times, long lines of trucks,
some of which are truck with trailer and two 40 ft shipping containers
loaded, a total load of, perhaps, 67 tons plus the 17 tons of truck
and trailer, a total gross weight of 85 tons, coming down the hill at
100 KPH. Yes Sir! A really great idea! Ride right out in the middle of
the lane! Gives the guy a good excuse to check his brakes.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 12/7/2023 7:24 PM, John B. wrote:
>
> Frank's statement doesn't make much sense although it probably does
> prevent right hook crashes.
>
> But "Lane center"? The roads I ride on are 4 to 6 lane with traffic
> in the 100 - 120 KPH range with, some times, long lines of trucks,
> some of which are truck with trailer and two 40 ft shipping containers
> loaded, a total load of, perhaps, 67 tons plus the 17 tons of truck
> and trailer, a total gross weight of 85 tons, coming down the hill at
> 100 KPH. Yes Sir! A really great idea! Ride right out in the middle of
> the lane! Gives the guy a good excuse to check his brakes.

I ride on residential streets, fairly quiet country roads, city and
suburban arterials and other city streets. On any of those, I share the
lane with motor vehicles when I decide its safe. In my state "safe" is
legally defined as a minimum three feet of clearance. In the next state
(the border's about five miles away) it's defined as four feet of clearance.

Let's do some math. On my bike, I'm roughly two feet wide. Three feet
minimum legal clearance puts the right mirror of a passing vehicle at
least five feet from the road's edge even if I'm riding just a foot from
the lane's edge. My small car is about 7 feet wide including mirrors,
but trucks can legally be 8.5 feet wide.

By state law, I do not have to share a lane that's too narrow to safely
share. Almost all lanes, by my measurements (yes, I've checked) are less
than 12 feet wide.

Do the math. (I can help, if you need it.) Then tell me what _you_ would
do when riding in a ten foot lane when an 8.5 foot truck comes up behind
you.

I've asked that question of you a dozen times over the years. You, John,
have never had the courage or honesty to answer.

What I do is ride at lane center, as the law allows. I've done it
countless times, whether the approaching vehicle has been a private car,
a dump truck, a tractor trailer rig, a police car or whatever. I've
never been run over, never been ticketed.

Maybe this will help: https://youtu.be/rVMCz7UJZvM Pay special
attention at 1:10

Again, 10 foot lane, 8.5 foot truck. What would _you_ do? Ride only on a
bike path? Pull over every time a car approaches? What would you do?

--
- Frank Krygowski