Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/18/2024 7:54 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 6:08:39 AM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Catrike Ryder <Sol...@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 20:21:49 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/17/2024 6:00 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 11:49:02?PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 5:17:01?AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As I've explained, I didn't buy the EV to save money. It was entirely
>>>>>>>>> based on environmental conscience.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And in my case driver experience.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>> I'm not clear what you mean. Have you experienced EV batteries refusing
>>>>>>> to charge in sub zero temperatures? Having range drop from 330 miles to
>>>>>>> under 75 miles because of temperature effects on batteries is real and
>>>>>>> a problem. Most especially with EV's on a freeway with a longer commute
>>>>>>> as they can be in the US. Unless you've had direct experience with this
>>>>>>> you might not believe that it is real.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom, you've so far failed to tell us about your "direct experience" with
>>>>>> EVs. Did you forget?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My direct experience today: It was about 15 degrees Fahrenheit when I
>>>>>> got in my car, having charged it overnight in my detached unheated
>>>>>> garage. The predicted range was 220 miles, IIRC. That's a bit less than
>>>>>> the EPA rated range of 239 mlles. I drove roughly 20 miles, and the
>>>>>> predicted range at the end was just under 200 miles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your "from 330 miles to under 75 miles" is certainly not my "direct
>>>>>> experience." So please tell us in detail about your "direct experience"
>>>>>> with EVs in cold temperatures!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Another undocumented anecdote from Krygowsky.
>>>>>
>>>> Be that as it may it corresponds with my 2nd experience and folks reporting
>>>> experiences. Tom’s is click bate type of reporting, clearly the range takes
>>>> a hit at motorway speeds and cold, for example MG5 estate (about only EV
>>>> estate) has a + 300 mile range but at motorways drops to just sub 200 which
>>>> for my uses would be a bit tedious as I’d need to stop and give it at least
>>>> a 30min charge, rural wales isn’t known for its availability of chargers!
>>>>
>>>> But Toms range drop is frankly unbelievable, ie just because you don’t like
>>>> Frank is colouring your views.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teslas-electric-vehicles-cold-weather/
>>>
>>> With cars going dead on the freeway, that is hardly click bait. And this
>>> is mostly pro-EV reporting. 2 hours to charge because it is pulling so
>>> much electricity to heat the battery means that charging stations are
>>> only charging the vehicles to 70 or 80% This means that it is NOT 150
>>> miles but 105 to 120 miles.at best and that is cut way the hell down
>>> because the battery heaters are drawing off a lot of energy.
>>>
>> But remarkably this only happens to Americans not the Nordic countries…..
>
> It doesn't happen to americans any more than it happens anywhere else in
> the world. As usual, tom is full of shit.

Does like his clickbate articles as ever though not the only to be honest!
>
>>
>>> Or perhaps you can reference Krygowski's +15 instead of -15 as some sort
>>> of proof of whatever the hell he thinks he's trying to prove.
>>>
>>> If you recall, I said that there is a time and a place for EV's. That
>>> they have so few moving parts that the ONLY thing they have to replace is
>>> batteries but that is so expensive that it makes EV's only for the people
>>> that have money to burn. I really doubt that Krygowski does and the
>>> resale value of a 5 year old EV is near zero.
>>>
>>> Toyota has announced that they are canceling EV production and are about
>>> to start marketing a water fueled engine.
>>>
>>
>> Toyota do like to look at alternatives from memory they produce hydrogen
>> fuel cell powered cars and so on.
>
> They aren't ceasing EV production at all, in fact they're increasing it.
> Refer to the links in my response to tom.
>
Yes I do know it’s more they did push make hydrogen cars and may still I
guess?
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>>
>
Roger Merriman

Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/18/2024 7:21 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 10:28:13 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 12:00:37 AM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 11:49:02 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 5:17:01 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/16/2024 9:56 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/16/2024 8:44 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 1/16/2024 5:55 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/16/2024 4:47 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The winter freeze is impacting residents across Chicagoland, but some
>>>>>>>>>>> EV drivers are facing an additional handful of problems as they deal
>>>>>>>>>>> with long lines at charging stations and reduced battery life.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9AXRW_UjZg
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> pffft. They should get all they signed up for.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm doing perfectly fine. I've got plenty of range even on my long
>>>>>>>>> driving days.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I heard a news report that the troubles in the Strait of Hormuz could
>>>>>>>>> cause gas prices to surge. I thought "Really? [Yawn]"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I had not looked at comparisons lately but it is still not all that
>>>>>>>> dramatic:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2022:
>>>>>>>> https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs-gas-cheaper-to-own/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Last month:
>>>>>>>> https://www.electrichunter.com/ev-news/electric-vs-gasoline-which-cars-are-more-cost-effective
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lots of data but both frankly state there are big assumptions regarding
>>>>>>>> 'average' and individual cases will be well outside those numbers. I'm
>>>>>>>> happy that you're happy, but there is probably more personal
>>>>>>>> taste/personal expectations/personal behavior involved than strictly
>>>>>>>> economics.
>>>>>>> As I've explained, I didn't buy the EV to save money. It was entirely
>>>>>>> based on environmental conscience.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> And in my case driver experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lou
>>>>> I'm not clear what you mean. Have you experienced EV batteries refusing
>>>>> to charge in sub zero temperatures? Having range drop from 330 miles to
>>>>> under 75 miles because of temperature effects on batteries is real and
>>>>> a problem. Most especially with EV's on a freeway with a longer commute
>>>>> as they can be in the US. Unless you've had direct experience with this
>>>>> you might not believe that it is real.
>>>> Batteries are fine. An EV drives differently than a ICE especially in
>>>> city traffic.I like that. Instant torque, no jerky gearshifts, nor
>>>> reving motor before every gearshift, very and very
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>> Lou, my Ford Taurus X is a SUV type of vehicle though smaller than most.
>>> It has an automatic in it. I have to be careful pressing the gas because
>>> it spins the wheels. Is that "instant torque" enough for you?
>>>
>> Compare it to a equivalent sized EV even diesel engines don’t win this top
>> trumps and it’s not just that it’s higher but it’s not a curve but flat,
>> hence they can get up and go off the mark so well.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> There's also the issue of throttle response. Very few ICE cars I've
> driven compare to the response of the battery powered vehicles I've
> driven. Can my father in-laws 2015 Z28 light up the rear wheels from a
> dead stop? sure, but the throttle response isn't near as quick, smooth,
> and predictable, as the chevy volt I test drove or my friends Tesla he
> let me drive one afternoon. I definitely see the appeal.

Indeed seems more useable performance ie ability to pull away smartly or
build speed on motorways or so on.

Roger Merriman

On Friday, January 19, 2024 at 8:04:55 PM UTC+1, Zen Cycle wrote:
> On 1/18/2024 7:21 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 10:28:13 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 12:00:37 AM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 11:49:02 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 5:17:01 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>> On 1/16/2024 9:56 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 1/16/2024 8:44 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 1/16/2024 5:55 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 1/16/2024 4:47 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The winter freeze is impacting residents across Chicagoland, but some
> >>>>>>>>>> EV drivers are facing an additional handful of problems as they deal
> >>>>>>>>>> with long lines at charging stations and reduced battery life.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9AXRW_UjZg
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> pffft. They should get all they signed up for.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I'm doing perfectly fine. I've got plenty of range even on my long
> >>>>>>>> driving days.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I heard a news report that the troubles in the Strait of Hormuz could
> >>>>>>>> cause gas prices to surge. I thought "Really? [Yawn]"
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I had not looked at comparisons lately but it is still not all that
> >>>>>>> dramatic:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 2022:
> >>>>>>> https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs-gas-cheaper-to-own/
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Last month:
> >>>>>>> https://www.electrichunter.com/ev-news/electric-vs-gasoline-which-cars-are-more-cost-effective
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Lots of data but both frankly state there are big assumptions regarding
> >>>>>>> 'average' and individual cases will be well outside those numbers.. I'm
> >>>>>>> happy that you're happy, but there is probably more personal
> >>>>>>> taste/personal expectations/personal behavior involved than strictly
> >>>>>>> economics.
> >>>>>> As I've explained, I didn't buy the EV to save money. It was entirely
> >>>>>> based on environmental conscience.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> And in my case driver experience.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Lou
> >>>> I'm not clear what you mean. Have you experienced EV batteries refusing
> >>>> to charge in sub zero temperatures? Having range drop from 330 miles to
> >>>> under 75 miles because of temperature effects on batteries is real and
> >>>> a problem. Most especially with EV's on a freeway with a longer commute
> >>>> as they can be in the US. Unless you've had direct experience with this
> >>>> you might not believe that it is real.
> >>> Batteries are fine. An EV drives differently than a ICE especially in
> >>> city traffic.I like that. Instant torque, no jerky gearshifts, nor
> >>> reving motor before every gearshift, very and very
> >>>
> >>> Lou
> >> Lou, my Ford Taurus X is a SUV type of vehicle though smaller than most.
> >> It has an automatic in it. I have to be careful pressing the gas because
> >> it spins the wheels. Is that "instant torque" enough for you?
> >>
> > Compare it to a equivalent sized EV even diesel engines don’t win this top
> > trumps and it’s not just that it’s higher but it’s not a curve but flat,
> > hence they can get up and go off the mark so well.
> >
> > Roger Merriman
> There's also the issue of throttle response. Very few ICE cars I've
> driven compare to the response of the battery powered vehicles I've
> driven. Can my father in-laws 2015 Z28 light up the rear wheels from a
> dead stop? sure, but the throttle response isn't near as quick, smooth,
> and predictable, as the chevy volt I test drove or my friends Tesla he
> let me drive one afternoon. I definitely see the appeal.
> --
> Add xx to reply

Throttle response is availability of torque. With an EV it is instant, smooth, for city traffic speeds constant and all this without making the noise of an ICE. There are people that are into noise though, hence all the tricks they do with the exhaust valves to make a specific noise. They should stick to an ICE or an EV with fake noises, but that is pathetic imho.

Lou

On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 12:34:52 AM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Zen Cycle <funkm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On 1/18/2024 7:54 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 6:08:39 AM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>> Catrike Ryder <Sol...@old.bikers.org> wrote:
> >>>>> On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 20:21:49 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 1/17/2024 6:00 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 11:49:02?PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 5:17:01?AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> As I've explained, I didn't buy the EV to save money. It was entirely
> >>>>>>>>> based on environmental conscience.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> And in my case driver experience.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Lou
> >>>>>>> I'm not clear what you mean. Have you experienced EV batteries refusing
> >>>>>>> to charge in sub zero temperatures? Having range drop from 330 miles to
> >>>>>>> under 75 miles because of temperature effects on batteries is real and
> >>>>>>> a problem. Most especially with EV's on a freeway with a longer commute
> >>>>>>> as they can be in the US. Unless you've had direct experience with this
> >>>>>>> you might not believe that it is real.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Tom, you've so far failed to tell us about your "direct experience" with
> >>>>>> EVs. Did you forget?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My direct experience today: It was about 15 degrees Fahrenheit when I
> >>>>>> got in my car, having charged it overnight in my detached unheated
> >>>>>> garage. The predicted range was 220 miles, IIRC. That's a bit less than
> >>>>>> the EPA rated range of 239 mlles. I drove roughly 20 miles, and the
> >>>>>> predicted range at the end was just under 200 miles.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Your "from 330 miles to under 75 miles" is certainly not my "direct
> >>>>>> experience." So please tell us in detail about your "direct experience"
> >>>>>> with EVs in cold temperatures!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Another undocumented anecdote from Krygowsky.
> >>>>>
> >>>> Be that as it may it corresponds with my 2nd experience and folks reporting
> >>>> experiences. Tom’s is click bate type of reporting, clearly the range takes
> >>>> a hit at motorway speeds and cold, for example MG5 estate (about only EV
> >>>> estate) has a + 300 mile range but at motorways drops to just sub 200 which
> >>>> for my uses would be a bit tedious as I’d need to stop and give it at least
> >>>> a 30min charge, rural wales isn’t known for its availability of chargers!
> >>>>
> >>>> But Toms range drop is frankly unbelievable, ie just because you don’t like
> >>>> Frank is colouring your views.
> >>>>
> >>>> Roger Merriman
> >>> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teslas-electric-vehicles-cold-weather/
> >>>
> >>> With cars going dead on the freeway, that is hardly click bait. And this
> >>> is mostly pro-EV reporting. 2 hours to charge because it is pulling so
> >>> much electricity to heat the battery means that charging stations are
> >>> only charging the vehicles to 70 or 80% This means that it is NOT 150
> >>> miles but 105 to 120 miles.at best and that is cut way the hell down
> >>> because the battery heaters are drawing off a lot of energy.
> >>>
> >> But remarkably this only happens to Americans not the Nordic countries…..
> >
> > It doesn't happen to americans any more than it happens anywhere else in
> > the world. As usual, tom is full of shit.
> Does like his clickbate articles as ever though not the only to be honest!
> >
> >>
> >>> Or perhaps you can reference Krygowski's +15 instead of -15 as some sort
> >>> of proof of whatever the hell he thinks he's trying to prove.
> >>>
> >>> If you recall, I said that there is a time and a place for EV's. That
> >>> they have so few moving parts that the ONLY thing they have to replace is
> >>> batteries but that is so expensive that it makes EV's only for the people
> >>> that have money to burn. I really doubt that Krygowski does and the
> >>> resale value of a 5 year old EV is near zero.
> >>>
> >>> Toyota has announced that they are canceling EV production and are about
> >>> to start marketing a water fueled engine.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Toyota do like to look at alternatives from memory they produce hydrogen
> >> fuel cell powered cars and so on.
> >
> > They aren't ceasing EV production at all, in fact they're increasing it..
> > Refer to the links in my response to tom.
> >
> Yes I do know it’s more they did push make hydrogen cars and may still I
> guess?
> >>
> >> Roger Merriman
> >>
> >
> Roger Merriman

Toyota’s hydrogen car is not a commercial succes. Building a charging infrastructure for EV’s is much easier that for hydrogen cars. For some time here in the Netherlands cars running on LPG were quite popular because it was very cheap if your annual mileage was above a certain level.. The infrastructure here in the Netherlands was OK’ish but if your crossed the border it became already tricky.

Lou

On Friday, January 19, 2024 at 12:38:55 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 10:20:25 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 10:28:13 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 12:00:37 AM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 11:49:02 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 5:17:01 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > On 1/16/2024 9:56 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > > On 1/16/2024 8:44 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > >> On 1/16/2024 5:55 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > >>> On 1/16/2024 4:47 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> The winter freeze is impacting residents across Chicagoland, but some
> > > > > > >>>> EV drivers are facing an additional handful of problems as they deal
> > > > > > >>>> with long lines at charging stations and reduced battery life.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9AXRW_UjZg
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> pffft. They should get all they signed up for.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I'm doing perfectly fine. I've got plenty of range even on my long
> > > > > > >> driving days.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I heard a news report that the troubles in the Strait of Hormuz could
> > > > > > >> cause gas prices to surge. I thought "Really? [Yawn]"
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I had not looked at comparisons lately but it is still not all that
> > > > > > > dramatic:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2022:
> > > > > > > https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs-gas-cheaper-to-own/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Last month:
> > > > > > > https://www.electrichunter.com/ev-news/electric-vs-gasoline-which-cars-are-more-cost-effective
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Lots of data but both frankly state there are big assumptions regarding
> > > > > > > 'average' and individual cases will be well outside those numbers. I'm
> > > > > > > happy that you're happy, but there is probably more personal
> > > > > > > taste/personal expectations/personal behavior involved than strictly
> > > > > > > economics.
> > > > > > As I've explained, I didn't buy the EV to save money. It was entirely
> > > > > > based on environmental conscience.
> > > > > >
> > > > > And in my case driver experience.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lou
> > > > I'm not clear what you mean. Have you experienced EV batteries refusing to charge in sub zero temperatures? Having range drop from 330 miles to under 75 miles because of temperature effects on batteries is real and a problem. Most especially with EV's on a freeway with a longer commute as they can be in the US. Unless you've had direct experience with this you might not believe that it is real.
> > > Batteries are fine. An EV drives differently than a ICE especially in city traffic.I like that. Instant torque, no jerky gearshifts, nor reving motor before every gearshift, very and very
> > >
> > > Lou
> > Lou, my Ford Taurus X is a SUV type of vehicle though smaller than most.. It has an automatic in it. I have to be careful pressing the gas because it spins the wheels. Is that "instant torque" enough for you?
> Tom I suggest you testdrive an EV and report back. Torque is zero at 0 rpm with any ICE car. I’m waiting for a stoplight with my foot on the brake and the car is complete silent. Next to me a car enthusiast with a manuel (that is what car enthousiasts drive around here) with his foot on the clutch reving his engine to 2000-3000 rpm to get some torque when he lifts his foot from the clutch. If I wanted a dragrace the car enthusiast would loose from 0-50 km/hr (city traffic) That is the difference. I’m not into drag racing but the instant torque makes driving in city traffic with a lot of accelerating and decelerating extremely smooth and quiet. I like that. You don’t have to justify your car of choice for me. I don’t care.
>
> Lou

Why would I have to even try an EV when the car I have has better performance than I need? If you think that you can improve enough over an automatic with a stick to be worthwhile, then go ahead and buy one. Or drive an EV as if there were no traffic laws. I can spin my rear wheels in a heavy SUV by simply pushing on the accelerator too hard. Can you somehow improve on that?

On Friday, January 19, 2024 at 12:57:43 AM UTC-8, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> Am Thu, 18 Jan 2024 14:08:35 GMT schrieb Roger Merriman
> <ro...@sarlet.com>:
>
> >Wolfgang Strobl <ne...@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >> Sometimes I get the impression that rec.bicylcles.tech could renamed to
> >> rec.bicycles.talk.carsnguns.
> >>
> >> Don't know about you people, but we use our 25 years old Citroen Break
> >> essentially once or twice a year only, for our vacation somewhere in
> >> Europe, mostly south of France. Locally, we can easily do all of our
> >> transport with bicycles. We even didn't own a car while we were raising
> >> our two children, both of us working, me fulltime, she halftime.
> >>
> >>
> >I certainly have had no cars or rather wasn’t able to drive for fair amount
> >of time, which was fine, even now I don’t use the car much as well London
> >has public transportation and it’s generally a royal pain by car vs bike.
>
> Public transport is good enough to get around without a car in German
> towns, too. It is even good enough to get to other towns in Germany.
>
> Public transport has its weaknesses, the railroad has been almost
> destroyed by incompetent politicians and administrators in favor of car
> traffic, in Germany. But it has worked and it still works reasonably
> well.
>
> However, international connections have deteriorated and cross-border
> bicycle transportation is only for young people with good nerves.
>
> There are a lot of car sharing options for getting around, for those who
> aren't able to ride a bike or don't want to. But this is now. Car
> sharing wasn't available 40 years ago, wouldn't be viable for commuting
> even now. Commuting is getting a lot more difficult if both parents work
> and one parent (me, that is) has a fulltime job in another municipality,
> on the other side of a river and there on a hill in a rural area.
>
> The timetable often didn't work out, terminus stops were fragile and
> sometimes closed. After the car and motorcycle, the bicycle was the only
> option to avoid spending around two hours commuting per day.
>
> After the car and motorcycle, the bicycle was the only reliable option
> to avoid spending two hours or sometimes even longer, for commuting
> every work day. But it took more than one attempt and years, to build up
> enough strength and versality to be able to take it easy.
>
> >
> >I keep the car for longer distances which is generally the better choice,
> >plus transportation of the MTB.
>
> Alas, we so far haven't found a viable way to do get to our vacation
> destination, without a car we own. Car sharing doesn't cover it,
> renting a car that is big enough to carry our bikes inside is more
> expensive than just using our old car for getting to France and back
> again, once a year.
>
>
> --
> Thank you for observing all safety precautions

Public transit doesn't work well around here. The distances are too far, too expensive and simply not close enough to work locations. I should saw "was" since Silicon Valley has been completely destroyed by the Democrat Party here. SV was a center for generating technology on a par with nothing else in the world. So the Democrats placed every conceivable restriction and tax on them until they either died or left. But when SV was still red hot, the only way to commute was via automobile. And from my home that was bare minimum 45 minutes one way. Working 10 or 11 hours and then commuting for another hour and a half is why I normally worked in the central bay rather than at the south end in Silicon Valley except when I lived in Fremont which is 15 miles further south from my present home and more when I lived on my boat in Alameda.

So although it would be nice to use public transportation, the distances are prohibitive.

On 1/20/2024 5:59 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, January 19, 2024 at 12:38:55 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>
>> Tom I suggest you testdrive an EV and report back. Torque is zero at 0 rpm with any ICE car. I’m waiting for a stoplight with my foot on the brake and the car is complete silent. Next to me a car enthusiast with a manuel (that is what car enthousiasts drive around here) with his foot on the clutch reving his engine to 2000-3000 rpm to get some torque when he lifts his foot from the clutch. If I wanted a dragrace the car enthusiast would loose from 0-50 km/hr (city traffic) That is the difference. I’m not into drag racing but the instant torque makes driving in city traffic with a lot of accelerating and decelerating extremely smooth and quiet. I like that. You don’t have to justify your car of choice for me. I don’t care.
>>
>> Lou
>
> Why would I have to even try an EV when the car I have has better performance than I need?

Why? So you might perhaps quit making false and even nonsensical
statements about EVs, that's why.

You're famous for claiming others know nothing about bikes because they
choose a different style bike than you do. (As if that fact changes all
the laws of physics!) Yet you rant on about EVs despite zero experience
with one - not to mention your usual negative technical knowledge.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 11:59:35 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:

> Why would I have to even try an EV

for educational reasons. You need that.

Lou

On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 21:23:33 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 1/20/2024 5:59 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Friday, January 19, 2024 at 12:38:55?AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>
>>> Tom I suggest you testdrive an EV and report back. Torque is zero at 0 rpm with any ICE car. I’m waiting for a stoplight with my foot on the brake and the car is complete silent. Next to me a car enthusiast with a manuel (that is what car enthousiasts drive around here) with his foot on the clutch reving his engine to 2000-3000 rpm to get some torque when he lifts his foot from the clutch. If I wanted a dragrace the car enthusiast would loose from 0-50 km/hr (city traffic) That is the difference. I’m not into drag racing but the instant torque makes driving in city traffic with a lot of accelerating and decelerating extremely smooth and quiet. I like that. You don’t have to justify your car of choice for me. I don’t care.
>>>
>>> Lou
>>
>> Why would I have to even try an EV when the car I have has better performance than I need?
>
>Why? So you might perhaps quit making false and even nonsensical
>statements about EVs, that's why.
>
>You're famous for claiming others know nothing about bikes because they
>choose a different style bike than you do. (As if that fact changes all
>the laws of physics!) Yet you rant on about EVs despite zero experience
>with one - not to mention your usual negative technical knowledge.

That's from a guy that rants about guns despite zero experience
with one - not to mention his usual negative technical knowledge about
them.

On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 4:40:46 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 11:59:35 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
>
> > Why would I have to even try an EV
> for educational reasons. You need that.
>
> Lou
So you can't learn from the errors of others? I certainly can.

On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 09:21:23 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 4:40:46?AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 11:59:35?PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > Why would I have to even try an EV

>> for educational reasons. You need that.
>> Lou

>So you can't learn from the errors of others? I certainly can.

It's very difficult to learn anything from your continuous stream of
lies and errors.

You should test drive an EV because there's a tiny but finite chance
that it might spontaneously catch fire or explode.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 1/21/2024 7:40 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 11:59:35 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
>
>> Why would I have to even try an EV
>
> for educational reasons. You need that.
>
> Lou

+1,000,000

--
Add xx to reply

On 1/21/2024 1:14 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 09:21:23 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 4:40:46?AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>> On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 11:59:35?PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> Why would I have to even try an EV
>
>>> for educational reasons. You need that.
>>> Lou
>
>> So you can't learn from the errors of others? I certainly can.
>
> It's very difficult to learn anything from your continuous stream of
> lies and errors.
>
> You should test drive an EV because there's a tiny but finite chance
> that it might spontaneously catch fire or explode.
>

LOL

--
Add xx to reply

On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 7:42:24 AM UTC-8, Zen Cycle wrote:
> On 1/21/2024 1:14 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 09:21:23 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 4:40:46?AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 11:59:35?PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> Why would I have to even try an EV
> >
> >>> for educational reasons. You need that.
> >>> Lou
> >
> >> So you can't learn from the errors of others? I certainly can.
> >
> > It's very difficult to learn anything from your continuous stream of
> > lies and errors.
> >
> > You should test drive an EV because there's a tiny but finite chance
> > that it might spontaneously catch fire or explode.
> >
> LOL
> --
> Add xx to reply
As Lou might have noticed and commented on was the fact that Liebermann and Flunky comment so much on EV's because of their extensive personal experience with them.

On 1/22/2024 12:01 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 7:42:24 AM UTC-8, Zen Cycle wrote:
>> On 1/21/2024 1:14 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 09:21:23 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 4:40:46?AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 11:59:35?PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> Why would I have to even try an EV
>>>
>>>>> for educational reasons. You need that.
>>>>> Lou
>>>
>>>> So you can't learn from the errors of others? I certainly can.
>>>
>>> It's very difficult to learn anything from your continuous stream of
>>> lies and errors.
>>>
>>> You should test drive an EV because there's a tiny but finite chance
>>> that it might spontaneously catch fire or explode.
>>>
>> LOL
>> --
>> Add xx to reply
> As Lou might have noticed and commented on was the fact that Liebermann and Flunky comment so much on EV's because of their extensive personal experience with them.

I don't need to have a lot of personal experience on any subject to know
you're completely full of shit.

--
Add xx to reply

On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 09:01:21 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 7:42:24?AM UTC-8, Zen Cycle wrote:
>> On 1/21/2024 1:14 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> > On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 09:21:23 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 4:40:46?AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >>> On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 11:59:35?PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>> Why would I have to even try an EV
>> >
>> >>> for educational reasons. You need that.
>> >>> Lou
>> >
>> >> So you can't learn from the errors of others? I certainly can.
>> >
>> > It's very difficult to learn anything from your continuous stream of
>> > lies and errors.
>> >
>> > You should test drive an EV because there's a tiny but finite chance
>> > that it might spontaneously catch fire or explode.
>> >
>> LOL
>> --
>> Add xx to reply

>As Lou might have noticed and commented on was the fact that
>Liebermann and Flunky comment so much on EV's because of their
>extensive personal experience with them.

I was under the impression that the purpose of RBT was to exchange
technical information on bicycles. Presumably, this information is so
that the readers will not repeat the mistakes of others, prevent
future mistakes and generally avoid problems. Buying something
without first researching other peoples experiences, is a recipe for
difficulties (unless it has a really good return policy).

Since you comment on literally everything that appears in RBT, could
you make things easier by disclosing in RBT your personal experience
with it before passing judgement?

It also seems odd that you rarely provide the source(s) of your
amazing facts. The few times that you have provided a URL, it either
contradicts your claims or has nothing to do with your claim. That's
much like claiming you had prior experience with something, only to
discover that it's a lie.

Photos are always helpful. I'm still waiting for photos of the
multiple Ford Taurus models and years that you have had personal
experience destroying:
<https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:6912346811772932096/>
"I got a severe concussion in 2010 that led to a type of seizures that
I didn't remember afterwards. This wasn't discovered and treated
properly until 2012 after 4 car wrecks luckily without any injuries."

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 09:01:21 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 7:42:24?AM UTC-8, Zen Cycle wrote:
>> On 1/21/2024 1:14 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> > On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 09:21:23 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 4:40:46?AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >>> On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 11:59:35?PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>> Why would I have to even try an EV
>> >
>> >>> for educational reasons. You need that.
>> >>> Lou
>> >
>> >> So you can't learn from the errors of others? I certainly can.
>> >
>> > It's very difficult to learn anything from your continuous stream of
>> > lies and errors.
>> >
>> > You should test drive an EV because there's a tiny but finite chance
>> > that it might spontaneously catch fire or explode.
>> >
>> LOL
>> --
>> Add xx to reply
>As Lou might have noticed and commented on was the fact that Liebermann and Flunky comment so much on EV's because of their extensive personal experience with them.

By gorry! you are right,

Now it's your turn. Please post your experience owning and driving
electric autos.

--
Cheers,

John B.