On 2/9/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 12:09:40 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/9/2022 2:20 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:49:00 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 2/9/2022 12:32 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:24:08 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/9/2022 12:06 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 6:31:18 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 8 Feb 2022 15:52:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 2:16 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 6:10:25 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 12:03:48 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2022 9:22 AM, Tim R wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 3:24:24 PM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 06 Feb 2022 13:52:24 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's no reason to make things up. First result in a search:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.schradertpms.com/en/company/schrader-history/historical-timeline
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nothing in the timeline that mentions air guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, because airguns predate inflatable rubber tires.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The airgun hammer opened valve operates precisely the way the Schrader valve does. Pressure holds it closed, the hammer strike opens it enough to let the correct amount of air escape. The mass of the hammer and the spring that drives it have to be carefully calculated to get consistent velocity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither CO2 nor Precharged airguns exhaust the entire reservoir, unlike those inexpensive pumpup air rifles most of us had as kids. You get multiple shots. But either way uses a striker to open the valve, exactly how you release air from a Schrader valve. Since the internal pressure is what holds the valve closed, if you pump up one of those multipump Crosmans too far the striker can't release all the air and velocity starts to decrease. Also your arm gets tired.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The idea was that the airgun valve was the inspiration for the Schrader valve, and the working principle is the same, not that the Schrader valve itself is used on both. Airguns date to the 1500s although there is a claim for one about 1430, and the earliest pumped reservoir type in 1600, so a bit earlier than bicycles. (reference Robert Beeman, Airgun Digest, 1967) I don't remember where I read about the valves but will look for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lewis & Clark took a large air rifle on their expedition to the Pacific.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> They used it primarily (maybe only?) in demonstrations before each new
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Native American tribe they encountered. Apparently, it was quite
>>>>>>>>>>>>> powerful, and as opposed to a muzzle loader the Indians were familiar
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with, it could be fire rounds every couple seconds or so. It generated a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot of respect.
>>>>>>>>>>>> In about 1790 the Girandoni air rifle carried twenty-two .51 caliber
>>>>>>>>>>>> (13 mm) lead balls in a tubular magazine. A skilled shooter could fire
>>>>>>>>>>>> off one magazine in about thirty seconds and a shot from this air gun
>>>>>>>>>>>> could penetrate an inch thick wooden board at a hundred paces, an
>>>>>>>>>>>> effect roughly equal to that of a modern 9×19mm or .45 ACP caliber
>>>>>>>>>>>> pistol.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In contrast a muzzle loading, smooth bore, musket of the times could
>>>>>>>>>>>> be fired, by an expert, some 3 to 4 shots a minute.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> John B.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Guessing this 1790 air gun did not take over gun powder for a propellant in firearms due to the complexity of reloading it? Required a large cumbersome stationary machine to reload the air gun with compressed air? Whereas black powder guns at the time could be loaded individually by the shooter almost anywhere by a flask of gunpowder carried easily by the shooter.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Something like that. IIRC they were used to some degree by some European
>>>>>>>>>> armies. I guess maintenance was quite tricky, requiring an unusually
>>>>>>>>>> skilled technician. Those guys were in short supply.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, to an extent, firearms required a skilled technician. Remember
>>>>>>>>> that this was long before the days if interchangeable parts.
>>>>>>>> True, but a flintlock (for instance) is pretty obvious in its operation.
>>>>>>>> My understanding is that the valving in those early air rifles was much
>>>>>>>> more complex than a flintlock, much less easy for men of the time to
>>>>>>>> understand, and probably difficult to work on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Frank, do you know HOW that "air gun" was charged? Since there is a cap lock, it appears that it was charged not by a pump but via an explosive charge.
>>>>>> <sigh> Sorry, Tom, you're wrong again.
>>>>>
>>>>> And yet you didn't have the slightest idea of how it was charged.
>>>> Wrong yet again, Tom!
>>>>
>>>> FWIW, I knew about the Girandoni for years. I've long been a Lewis &
>>>> Clark fan. (That's why we followed most of their route when we rode
>>>> coast to coast.) I've got Ambrose's _Undaunted Courage_ (and several
>>>> other relevant books) on the shelf just behind me. The rifle was
>>>> described in many of those.
>>>>
>>>> But I learned finer details of the Girandoni just a few weeks ago, when
>>>> a good friend asked me to consult on his purchase of an air rifle. One
>>>> conversation led to another, and I eventually read up on the Girandoni
>>>> mechanism and operation.
>>>>
>>>> See, I tend to read and research. You tend to spout whatever nonsense
>>>> first pops into your mind.
>>>>
>>>> Education. It's amazingly useful! Try it!
>>>
>>> Tell me about this ultra-vast education of yours Frank. According to the citation of Jeff you had to have a large wheel drawn air pump to charge that air gun. Explain to us how they carried a wheeled horse drawn air pump on the terrain they covered? How did they carry it on the Canoe's they were forced to use for river crossings? Is there one thing in your head except hate and envy for me for being successful while you made a failing grade?
>> SMH
>
> I know that you know little to nothing about the history of the United States but the Lewis and Clark Expedition traveled almost entirely by river making the carrying of a heavy wheeled pump for charging mechanism very difficult in the early part of the trip up the Missouri River difficult and the later parts on the later parts past Fort Mandan impossible. When you don't know about things why are you continuously attempting to act like you do?
>

I don't know but their various journals and correspondence
are published*. I have not read them but this is a knowable
thing; one need not guess.

https://lewisandclarkjournals.unl.edu/item/lc.jrn.introduction.general

*There are gaps, but still a huge amount of detailed material.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971