On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 07:13:49 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 8:36:00 PM UTC-8, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 11:32:43 AM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:24:08 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > > On 2/9/2022 12:06 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > > > On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 6:31:18 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > > >> On 2/8/2022 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
>> > > >>> On Tue, 8 Feb 2022 15:52:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> > > >>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>> On 2/8/2022 2:16 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > > >>>>> On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 6:10:25 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
>> > > >>>>>> On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 12:03:48 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> > > >>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> > > >>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>> On 2/7/2022 9:22 AM, Tim R wrote:
>> > > >>>>>>>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 3:24:24 PM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > >>>>>>>>> On Sun, 06 Feb 2022 13:52:24 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>> There's no reason to make things up. First result in a search:
>> > > >>>>>>>>>> https://www.schradertpms.com/en/company/schrader-history/historical-timeline
>> > > >>>>>>>>> Nothing in the timeline that mentions air guns.
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> No, because airguns predate inflatable rubber tires.
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> The airgun hammer opened valve operates precisely the way the Schrader valve does. Pressure holds it closed, the hammer strike opens it enough to let the correct amount of air escape. The mass of the hammer and the spring that drives it have to be carefully calculated to get consistent velocity.
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> Neither CO2 nor Precharged airguns exhaust the entire reservoir, unlike those inexpensive pumpup air rifles most of us had as kids. You get multiple shots. But either way uses a striker to open the valve, exactly how you release air from a Schrader valve. Since the internal pressure is what holds the valve closed, if you pump up one of those multipump Crosmans too far the striker can't release all the air and velocity starts to decrease. Also your arm gets tired.
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> The idea was that the airgun valve was the inspiration for the Schrader valve, and the working principle is the same, not that the Schrader valve itself is used on both. Airguns date to the 1500s although there is a claim for one about 1430, and the earliest pumped reservoir type in 1600, so a bit earlier than bicycles. (reference Robert Beeman, Airgun Digest, 1967) I don't remember where I read about the valves but will look for it.
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>> Lewis & Clark took a large air rifle on their expedition to the Pacific.
>> > > >>>>>>> They used it primarily (maybe only?) in demonstrations before each new
>> > > >>>>>>> Native American tribe they encountered. Apparently, it was quite
>> > > >>>>>>> powerful, and as opposed to a muzzle loader the Indians were familiar
>> > > >>>>>>> with, it could be fire rounds every couple seconds or so. It generated a
>> > > >>>>>>> lot of respect.
>> > > >>>>>> In about 1790 the Girandoni air rifle carried twenty-two .51 caliber
>> > > >>>>>> (13 mm) lead balls in a tubular magazine. A skilled shooter could fire
>> > > >>>>>> off one magazine in about thirty seconds and a shot from this air gun
>> > > >>>>>> could penetrate an inch thick wooden board at a hundred paces, an
>> > > >>>>>> effect roughly equal to that of a modern 9×19mm or .45 ACP caliber
>> > > >>>>>> pistol.
>> > > >>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> In contrast a muzzle loading, smooth bore, musket of the times could
>> > > >>>>>> be fired, by an expert, some 3 to 4 shots a minute.
>> > > >>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> --
>> > > >>>>>> Cheers,
>> > > >>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> John B.
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> Guessing this 1790 air gun did not take over gun powder for a propellant in firearms due to the complexity of reloading it? Required a large cumbersome stationary machine to reload the air gun with compressed air? Whereas black powder guns at the time could be loaded individually by the shooter almost anywhere by a flask of gunpowder carried easily by the shooter.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Something like that. IIRC they were used to some degree by some European
>> > > >>>> armies. I guess maintenance was quite tricky, requiring an unusually
>> > > >>>> skilled technician. Those guys were in short supply.
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> Well, to an extent, firearms required a skilled technician. Remember
>> > > >>> that this was long before the days if interchangeable parts.
>> > > >> True, but a flintlock (for instance) is pretty obvious in its operation.
>> > > >> My understanding is that the valving in those early air rifles was much
>> > > >> more complex than a flintlock, much less easy for men of the time to
>> > > >> understand, and probably difficult to work on.
>> > > >
>> > > > Frank, do you know HOW that "air gun" was charged? Since there is a cap lock, it appears that it was charged not by a pump but via an explosive charge.
>> > > <sigh> Sorry, Tom, you're wrong again.
>> > And yet you didn't have the slightest idea of how it was charged. Tell me Frank. Why do you make comments when you haven't even a clue what this was all about.
>> > "supported by wheeled air pumps and wagons of pre-charged air bottles. These air guns easily were put of service and needed constant and expert tending. A Girandoni air rifle was predestined to give inexperienced users trouble and charging with individual hand pumps was punishing to the user. The dependability of the gun for lethal combat, under field conditions, especially without the backup of dozens of other airguns, was not high."
>> > Tell is all how the Lewis and Clark expedition moved wheeled air pumps along waterways with boats often no bigger than Indian canoes? When you are ignorant perhaps your (sigh)ing simply shows your ignorance.
>> "Hand-operated air pumps (it took some 1,500 strokes to fill each air canister) were issued one per two riflemen with additional large scale, wheeled air-pumping carts placed behind the lines."
>> https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2016/12/13/lewis-and-clarks-girandoni-air-rifle/
>>
>> Above is a quote from Andy's link about the air rifle used on the Lewis Clark expedition. Anyone with any common sense or intelligence at all, (not you), would guess the Lewis Clark expedition carried along one of the hand operated air pumps. And it was laboriously charged in the evening after supper. Lewis Clark did not use the wheeled air pumps on their expedition. The wheeled air pumps were only used at forts or in battles with a large number of extra personnel in the caravans that accompanied the soldiers in battle. Just like every fighting army today has lots of extra staff driving trucks with supplies and cooking meals behind the fighting lines.
>>
>> Tommy, I know the answer to this question, but, do you ever think at all?
>Russy, plainly you don't know anything about guns, While you are being attacked by Indians I want you to pump up a pressure vessel with 1500 pumps. It is plain that you were never in the military but pretty soon you'll wish you were when your city turns into little El Salvador.

And tommy knows something about being attacked by Indians?

But of course tommy was in the military... yup, he carried a tool box
for a qualified repairman and the closest he ever got to "fighting"
was about 2500 miles so obviously tommy is fully qualified to talk
about fighting.... Indians or otherwise.
--
Cheers,

John B.