On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 18:24:16 -0800 (PST), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 7:05:28 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 02:10:45 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 11:56:43 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 20:04:26 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>> >> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 6:34:14 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> For Remington Arms, the charges alleged incitement in their
>> >> >> advertising, an unique CT statute and I agree it was poorly
>> >> >> done (although I didn't see it as criminal, merely stupid. I
>> >> >> am not a CT legislator).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Trouble is, Remington Arms is in bankruptcy (a regular
>> >> >> process in the boom-bust arms industry) so the four
>> >> >> insurance carriers decided it was in their best interests to
>> >> >> settle. I do not know their analyses. Nor do you.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Interesting side note: The AR-15 style rifle was chambered
>> >> >> .22LR.
>> >> >
>> >> >Fired fast enough, .22 LR can kill a lot of kids.
>> >> >
>> >> >- Frank Krygowski
>> >> I think that is a fundamental difference between the U.S., today, and
>> >> some other countries.
>> >>
>> >> About a year an Thai Army Sergeant checked a M-16 out of the armory
>> >> and went into Korat City and first went to a Buddhist Temple and shot
>> >> some people and then went to a large shopping complex and shot some
>> >> more. The final score was 30 dead and (I believe) 50 wounded.
>> >>
>> >> And nobody even mentioned the rifle, rather the entire blame was
>> >> placed squarely on the shoulders of the guy that did the shooting. In
>> >> the U.S., as in the case of the Remington Rifle, the blame seems to be
>> >> somehow attributed to the inert object rather then the human that
>> >> actually did the deed.
>> >
>> >I am assuming your second "paragraph" above should be "About a year ago a Thai Army Sergeant..."
>> >
>> >Thailand (you ae in Thailand right?) has about 70 million people. A little under one fourth the USA population of 330 million. A year ago you had a big mass killing. In the USA we have had a similar mass killing every few years. Double yours in 2017. One and half times more in 2016. Equal to yours in 2007, 2012, 2017. And half or so in many other years.
>> >
>> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
>> >
>> >Looking at the number of mass killings in the USA, and the body count at each, I'd bet the USA is still way ahead of Thailand in mass killing events. And because the USA is so far ahead of Thailand, we look at why that is so. Is it real easy to do a mass killing in the USA because its so easy to get a good gun to go mass killing with? I bet if Thailand has one or two or three of similar mass killings every single year, then Thailand would also look at why its so easy to do these mass killings. And if its determined that all the perpetrators are using M-16 rifles, then the government might restrict the access to these good mass killing guns. Also, because your mass killing was an Army Sergeant using an Army M-16 rifle, focusing on the gun would be analogous to focusing on the speed or racing car in a crash at the Indianapolis 500 race. The Army M-16 rifle used in wars by soldiers is too good at killing people? Why would you have any questions about the rifle? Access to it by
>> >an Army Sergeant? No. Ability to take it off base without lots of checks and balances and paperwork and explanations? Yes.
>> You are rationalizing things. But, if you wish to do that then:
>>
>> Using your reference there have been, from 1949 until 2018 some 442
>> killed in mass shootings while during the same period there were
>> 51,613 killed while riding bicycles.
>>
>> If you want to talk about devices that kill people I do believe that
>> you really do need to consider bicycles... 116.77 times as many deaths
>> as deaths in mass shootings. and on an annual basis in 2018 rifles
>> killed 305 while bicycles killed 854.
>>
>> I and certainly Andrew have pointed out that homicides committed with
>> these incredibly dangerious semi-automatic rifles is only a bit more
>> then half those committed with hands and feet.
>> https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls
>>
>> But, of course, that wasn't the point at all. I was pointing out the
>> fallacy, in the U.S. of pointing at some inanimate object and saying,
>> "Gee if we just get rid of those dangerious things, why, there'd be no
>> crime at all."
>> >
>> >>
>> >> And this attributing a crime to an inert object instead of the
>> >> individual that actually carried out the act seems to be a relatively
>> >> recent phenomena,
>> >
>> >No. In the USA the government banned machine guns from civilians back in 1934 with the National Firearms Act. The federal government thought that inert object (machine gun) was too deadly for non military to have at their disposal. Mobsters back in the 1920s and 30s thought machine guns were real good at killing people. And they were. Government thought they could reduce the ease of killing by banning that inert object.
>> Nope, they didn't ban machine guns. Read the act. They required a $100
>> license to poses a "machine gun"
>
>OK. Its $200 for the National Firearms Act stamp. And a whole lot of federal forms and investigation too.
>https://www.therange702.com/blog/can-you-legally-own-a-machine-gun/

My mistake. I had thought it was $100
>
>But the USA licenses and regulates explosives too. Everyone buying, selling, using explosives has to have federal license. Why do we do that? Shouldn't everyone have the right to use explosives whenever they want? Isn't it a constitutional right? Explosives are inert objects too. Why should they be regulated and controlled? I don't recall anytime in history where the bad guys were blowing everyone and everything up with dynamite. FREEDOM to BLOW things UP!!!!!!!!!!!
>https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-explosives-united-states

While your reference is certainly true in part is it true in dealing
with gun powder? Does one require a license to poses or use gun power
either Black or smokeless?

As an aside, as a kid I and a buddy used to make nitroglycerine,
generally unsuccessfully. We used to put the "nitroglycerine" in empty
rifle cases and throw them down into an abandoned mine... and every
once in a while one of them would go "bang". Note: "bang" not "!BANG!"

>Or did some freedom hating government bureaucrat decide to take that freedom away from Americans? He thought blowing things up was not a good thing for the average Joe on the street to do. Even though explosives are an inert object. And do lots of good things in activities like mining. Kind of like M-16 and AR-15 are appropriate for the military to have and use because they are good at killing people. Which the military does. But do bums walking on the street need to be able to kill people so easily? Or blow people and things up easily with explosives?

Well, the M-16's being capable of full-automatic firing are banned or
at least you need a $200 license to own one and the AK's not being
anything but a "semi-automatic" require no license. But why should
they. After all, semi automatic firearms, to my knowledge, have been
available for more then 100 years - the Remington Model 8 was first
sold in 1905.

And "big Magazines" Oh Horrors!
But of course the Luger pistol had a 30 round magazine way back in WW
I days and several current pistols, the Glock 18 comes standard with a
20 round capacity and 31 round magazines are available and the Glock
17 can also be fitted with a 30 round magazine, and the Kel-Tec PMR 30
has a standard capacity of 30 rounds.

So, apparently semi automatic rifles aren't inherent scary and 30
round magazines aren't scary so why when you combing a small bore semi
automatic rifle with a 30 round magazine does it become such a
fearsome weapon.

I might comment that a full length magazines for a 12 gauge shotguns
are available. In fact the "Century Arms Catamount Fury II" is a 12
gauge shotgun that comes standard with a 30 round magazine, and I'm
pretty sure that 30 rounds of 12 gauge buckshot is are more lethal
then 30 rounds of .22 bullets.

My own supposition is that those who rush about waving their hands in
the air and screaming "Oh! My God! an AR! are people who, in fact,
know very, very, little or nothing at all, about firearms.

As Andrew mentions, there are something like 20 million AR type rifles
in the U.S. If they were inherent dangerous then we should have a
substantial number of rifle homicides each year and in fact the FBI
tells us that we have about 300. Which is, I might add, some .0015% of
the AR's or about 1 out of every 66,666 AR's . Or maybe another way of
putting it might be that in 2018 there were 305 murders committed with
all types of rifles and 854 died on bicycles.

Danger! Danger!
--
Cheers,

John B.