On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 11:18:45 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/20/2022 3:10 AM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 12:51:58 AM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 19:50:25 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 5:23:08 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 12:05:56 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/19/2022 12:16 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And "big Magazines" Oh Horrors!
>>>>>>> But of course the Luger pistol had a 30 round magazine way back in WW
>>>>>>> I days and several current pistols, the Glock 18 comes standard with a
>>>>>>> 20 round capacity and 31 round magazines are available and the Glock
>>>>>>> 17 can also be fitted with a 30 round magazine, and the Kel-Tec PMR 30
>>>>>>> has a standard capacity of 30 rounds.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, apparently semi automatic rifles aren't inherent scary and 30
>>>>>>> round magazines aren't scary so why when you combing a small bore semi
>>>>>>> automatic rifle with a 30 round magazine does it become such a
>>>>>>> fearsome weapon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I might comment that a full length magazines for a 12 gauge shotguns
>>>>>>> are available. In fact the "Century Arms Catamount Fury II" is a 12
>>>>>>> gauge shotgun that comes standard with a 30 round magazine, and I'm
>>>>>>> pretty sure that 30 rounds of 12 gauge buckshot is are more lethal
>>>>>>> then 30 rounds of .22 bullets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your argument does not prove high capacity magazines are perfectly fine.
>>>>>> I'd say it indicates the need for laws against high capacity magazines
>>>>>> on any firearm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Advantages vs. disadvantages, John! A disadvantage of a high capacity
>>>>>> magazine is that it enables mass shootings and rapid fire gun battles,
>>>>>> including between gang members and against cops.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are the advantages of high capacity magazines for non-criminal gun
>>>>>> users? Do hunters really need to put more than (say) ten bullets into a
>>>>>> rabbit or deer? Do target shooters really need fewer pauses to reload?
>>>>> And you know all this? How?
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you an experienced target shooter? I am, USAF Rifle and Pistol
>>>>> Teams, both Base and Major command. In later years I did considerable
>>>>> Trap Shooting, and participated in many Trap Shooting computations (In
>>>>> Ohio too).
>>>>>
>>>>> You are an experienced hunter? I am, I've owned a rifle since I was 12
>>>>> years old and hunted critters ranging from rabbets to Moose.
>>>>>
>>>>> In addition I worked as a gun smith for a number of years and as a
>>>>> result came in contact with a very large number of "shooters".
>>>>
>>>> I don't doubt that you've done what you say. Therefore, you should be able to answer my question!
>>>> What are the great advantages of 30 round magazines? Who needs them? Why?
>>>>
>>>> (Besides people in combat or pretend combat, that is.)
>>>>
>>>> The disadvantages seem obvious: abetting mass shootings. What are the real advantages?
>>>>
>>>> Your answer?
>>>>
>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>> Well, I guess the most obvious answer is "because someone wants one".
>>> Rather like the answer "why does someone want a plastic bicycle?" Or
>>> Why does one want a bicycle at all?"
>>>
>>> You argue that "big magazines abetting mass shootings" and yet
>>> statistics don't seem to justify that statement.
>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/
>>> Rifles were used in 26% of the shootings and pistols in 61%
>>> So shouldn't you be crying about pistols.
>>>
>>> Or FBI data which shows that in 2019 pistols were used in 62% of all
>>> shooting homicides.
>>> In fact the same statistics show that only 3% of shooting homicides
>>> were carried out with rifles which might, or might not, have large
>>> magazines.
>>>
>>> As I said, you are becoming a Crotchety Old Man and rather then argue
>>> facts you continue with these "delusions" - there is no other name for
>>> them - just as Tom does.
>>> --
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> John B.
>>
>> Frank did say "abetting mass shootings".
>> This from Wikipedia:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
>> "Gun Violence Archive, frequently cited by the press, defines a mass shooting as firearm violence resulting in at least four people being shot at roughly the same time and location, excluding the perpetrator. Using this definition, there have been 2,128 mass shootings since 2013, roughly one per day."
>> "The United States has had more mass shootings than any other country."
>> "Several types of guns have been used in mass shootings in the United States. A 2014 study conducted by Dr. James Fox of 142 shootings found that 88 (62%) were committed with handguns of all types; 68 (48%) with semi-automatic handguns, 20 (14%) with revolvers, 35 (25%) with semi-automatic rifles, and 19 (13%) with shotguns. The study was conducted using the Mother Jones database of mass shootings from 1982 to 2018. High capacity magazines were used in approximately half of mass shootings. Semi-automatic rifles have been used in six of the ten deadliest mass shooting events."
>>
>> Key points in the above quotes are (1) "High capacity magazines were used in approximately half of mass shootings." AND (2) "Semi-automatic rifles have been used in six of the ten DEADLIEST mass shooting events."
>>
>> The best (worst) mass shooting in the USA was the Las Vegas concert hotel killing in 2017. 60 dead.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting
>> "Twenty-four firearms, a large quantity of ammunition, and numerous high-capacity magazines capable of holding up to 100 rounds apiece were found in the suite.[142][143] Fourteen of the firearms were .223-caliber AR-15-type semi-automatic rifles..........The others were eight .308-caliber AR-10-type rifles.............Paddock was found to have fired a total of 1,058 rounds from fifteen of the firearms: 1,049 from twelve AR-15-style rifles, eight from two AR-10-style rifles, and the round used to kill himself from the Smith & Wesson revolver."
>>
>> Slightly humorous he used the revolver to kill himself.
>>
>
>And then there are definitions of terms.
>
>If 'mass shooting' is 'four hit' that's known in Chicago as
>'Wednesday'. pfft.
>
>What's 'high capacity' in a world where 30 rounds is a
>standard magazine? You might argue that what people like is
>evil (and that's an argument. I think you're mistaken but
>you could argue it) but what people actually buy are
>30-round magazines, both rifle and pistol. They're the
>700-25PV tube of the firearms industry.

Well.... it might be noted that in the period from 1949 to 2021 the
number of mass shooting deaths
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
was 502 people.

In 1949 alone there were
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclist_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year
550 bicycle deaths.
And, by 2018 there had been 49,953 more deaths.

And before anyone argues that Oh, my goodness there are so many
cyclists let me add that

https://www.statista.com/statistics/249740/percentage-of-households-in-the-united-states-owning-a-firearm/
42% if families have access to firearms and

there are some128.45 (million) families
https://financesonline.com/number-of-us-households/
and
there seem to be abut 2.6 persons to each family
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/HSD410219
so 128.45 x ,42 = 53.949 x 2.6 = 140.267 million
with access to guns,

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191204/participants-in-bicycling-in-the-us-since-2006/
says that there are some 53.73 million cyclists.

So 53.73 million contribute 50,000 deaths while 140.267 million
contribute 502.

Oh.... ain't them there mass shootings terrifying!

--
Cheers,

John B.