On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 10:00:29 AM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 6:03:38 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 2/22/2022 8:50 PM, John B. wrote:
> > > On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:57:12 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 2/22/2022 6:50 PM, John B. wrote:
> > >>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 14:38:59 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> On 2/22/2022 12:56 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > >>>>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 10:11:43 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On 2/22/2022 1:21 AM, John B. wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> <snip>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Yes, I was being unduly sarcastic but I do maintain that Nurses are
> > >>>>>>> not qualified to either diagnose nor proscribe treatment.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Depends on the type of nurse.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> In the U.S., an LVN or LPN (Licensed Vocational Nurse/Licensed Practical
> > >>>>>> Nurse) is probably not qualified to diagnose. An experienced RN is
> > >>>>>> probably qualified, but legally can't diagnose or proscribe treatment. A
> > >>>>>> NP (Nurse practitioner) is both qualified and allowed to diagnose and
> > >>>>>> proscribe treatment, and depending on the state, is allowed to write
> > >>>>>> prescriptions.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Diagnosis is not a problem. We now have online web sites and AI
> > >>>>> algorithms that can diagnose many common ailments. For example:
> > >>>>> <https://symptoms.webmd.com>
> > >>>>> <https://www.mayoclinic.org/symptom-checker/select-symptom/itt-20009075>
> > >>>>> More:
> > >>>>> <https://openmd.com/directory/symptoms>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Treatment is a different story. The medical establishment has a very
> > >>>>> effective monopoly on drugs and procedures, which is probably a good
> > >>>>> thing from the safety standpoint. There are databases of commonly
> > >>>>> prescribed drugs and treatments, but those are not easily
> > >>>>> understandable or accessible to the GUM (great unwashed masses). The
> > >>>>> Star Trek Tricorder is a probably a decade in the future. An open
> > >>>>> source medication replicator, maybe 20 years.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I'm as critical as anyone of our recently diminished Medical
> > >>>> Billing Industry (formerly medical services). That said,
> > >>>> diagnosis is a refined art requiring both great skill and
> > >>>> deep knowledge, ideally after thousands of iterations. MDs
> > >>>> who are good are very good (although that group is
> > >>>> retiring/quitting at dramatic rates). The news is filled
> > >>>> with idiots who (wrongly) self-diagnose from web pages.
> > >>>> Something to keep in mind- seek an informed opinion besides
> > >>>> your own.
> > >>>
> > >>> I believe I've posted about the chap I knew -Special Forces trained
> > >>> Medic - who described some of the testing that he went through before
> > >>> he graduated from Medic Training. One was to be presented a list of
> > >>> the patients complaints and then diagnose the most likely problem.
> > >>>
> > >>> Something along the line of, A bloke comes in and with a slight fever
> > >>> and a small cough, his right hip hurts and he had loose bowels
> > >>> yesterday.
> > >>>
> > >>> What is the most likely problem and what is the recommended treatment?
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Try appendicitis, most commonly seen in military age young
> > >> men and notoriously difficult to diagnose. Not slighting
> > >> Navy Medical Corpsmen but there's a lot more to this.
> > >
> > >
> > > Nope. The bloke had "had drink taken" the previous evening and the
> > > fall that hurt the hip, headache and loose bowels was the result. The
> > > treatment was two APC pills and "come back tomorrow if you don't feel
> > > better" (:-)
> > >
> > My point was that medical diagnoses can be difficult at
> > times with high stakes.
> Medics are little more than nurses without the education. More than half of the standard treatments in hospitals are performed by nurses.

I doubt that. The treatments part. Not the medics being nurses. Or nurses in training. That makes sense. The military takes volunteers or picks people to be medics. Nurses on the battlefield and front line. Then trains them to perform this task. The military trains everyone for whatever task they assign to the person. My uncle was a medic in the Navy in the 1970s and became a RN nurse with a college degree afterwards. But as for treatments in hospitals, official doctors are involved. Maybe not too involved. Maybe the nurse writes up a report and preliminary diagnosis, and the doctor looks at it and looks at the patient and says OK. But a doctor is always involved. Not a nurse only.

> My just retired sister in law ran the entire diabetes treatments for Alameda County. She had other nurses below her that would connect each patient up to the blood treatment machines for the proper period of time.

Tommy, Tommy, Tommy. Why oh why do you write about things you do not know anything at all about? You have no idea what the diabetes treatment for patients with this disease is. Why write nonsense about it? I know this is one of your trademarks. Just like you wrote about navigation and Jeff and John I believe corrected you on a sextant and how to navigate. But making up stuff on how diabetes is treated? Blood treatment machines are not used to treat diabetes.

Diabetes is an endocrine disease. The endocrine gland called the pancreas does not work. The Islets of Langerhans inside the pancreas create insulin.. Insulin is a hormone that binds with sugar in the bloodstream and allows it to be received by the cells in the body. When diabetes is diagnosed, these cells inside the pancreas are not working. Thus allowing sugar to build up in the blood stream. Now when a diabetic is first diagnosed, or whenever they have very poor control of their diabetes, DKA Diabetic Ketoacidosis may develop. A diabetes treatment place/doctor/clinic (as you sister-in-law ran) will receive the first diagnosed patient and put him/her on an IV.. This IV will have saline (water to dilute the blood) and insulin in it. Insulin is used to get the sugar out of the blood and into the cells. Water/saline is to dilute the blood and make it less acidic. When first diagnosed and with DKA, the diabetic is literally starving to death because the body cells are not able to get any sugar from the blood. They are starving.. The body tries to fix this problem by breaking down fats and this causes acids to go into the blood. I guess breaking down fat causes acid. This can be deadly.

Thus the IV to dilute the blood with saline and the insulin to get the sugar into the cells and cause the body to stop using fat as fake fuel and putting acid into the blood. This initial diagnosis and DKA would be the ONLY time a diabetic is hooked up to a "blood treatment machine" as you stated. But I don't think anyone except you would say an IV is a machine. Diabetics do not use machines that filter the blood like kidney dialysis or chemotherapy.

Again Tommy, stop talking about stuff you are completely clueless of. Now I know that means you would have absolutely nothing on earth to talk about. Because you seem to be clueless on everything under the sun. But don't make up nonsensical lies.

>
> Idiots like Russell and Slow Johnny think that a nurse is nothing more than a receptionist.

No Tommy. I have many nurses in my family. And have met many at clinics and hospitals. I have watched what they do. Receptionist was not one of their duties. HOWEVER, I do wonder if the receptionists at the numerous clinics I have been to do have nurses working the receptionist chair. Maybe the nurses in the clinic rotate between seeing patients and working the receptionist chair. And doing the other administrative tasks in the office. Like scheduling appointments and filling out forms on the computer. Anyone know people who work at a clinic and can answer this?