On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 12:07:31 AM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 21:28:01 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 9:30:12 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> >> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 18:32:56 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 12:47:35 AM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> >> >> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 22:13:45 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:39:36 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> >> >> >> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 21:16:32 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >On 2/27/2022 8:20 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> >> >> >> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 4:19:21 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:02:52 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>> On 2/27/2022 11:47 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>> On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 9:17:29 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>> On 2/27/2022 2:28 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 3:32:24 PM UTC-6, cycl....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:05:17 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 9:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2022 1:47 AM, John B. wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:32:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:02:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/24/2022 11:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:49:51 PM UTC-8,
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 7:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 8:31 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, of course I was ridiculing Franks
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion, at
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least as I
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood him, that somehow one would be more,
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or less,
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken by
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grief depending on the cause of death.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're being totally unrealistic, in a foolish
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursue a nonsense argument.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither individuals nor society treat all deaths
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as equal,
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor have identical feelings about all deaths.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death of an elderly person who has lived a
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full life is
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one thing. Perhaps it is regrettable depending on
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions, but often people remark "Well, it
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was time" or
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something similar.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death from natural causes of a middle aged
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or younger
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is generally treated as a bit more
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regrettable. A
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar death of a child even more so.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An accidental death of those people triggers yet
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regret, and may lead to anger at how such a
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing could be
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to happen.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a person rightfully triggers
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outrage and
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal prosecution.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The murder of a child, even more outrage.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The killing of 20 children sitting in school is
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly heinous. At least, by people who are not
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid fans of
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the weapon used.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I understand you and you're not wrong in
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle but policy
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on anomalies doesn't always work out well.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A British-born engineer and colleague of mine in
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970s used to
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mock
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slogan the NRA promoted in those days. He said
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And when bombs are
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlawed, only outlaws will have bombs."
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if today's pretend soldiers will use the
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second Amendment to
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call for free use and possession of bombs?
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are slipping right down into the throes of
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silly ness.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your colleague's mocking comment is pretty silly as
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, in the
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S., several states with rather severe hand gun
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control laws are
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finding more and more being smuggled into the
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state. So it is a truism
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when guns are outlawed only criminals will
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have guns.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You might try a google search on "gun+smuggle". I
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get 15,600,000
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hits".
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/gun-trafficking-ring-ohio-camden-new-jersey-weapons-arrests/205248/
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Out here in the actual world it's the same market
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as dope. Prohibition or hyper regulatory tax schemes
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guarantee a higher profit to contraband.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you guys have convinced me! Laws never work, so
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should outlaw
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all laws. Got it!
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Since this is Usenet, I may have to say that was
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm.)
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions welcome.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canadian laws.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> British laws.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> French laws.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heck, Swiss laws. Lots of guns, but in "well regulated
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> militias." And
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> far, far less gun crime than the U.S.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Very few developed nations emulate the U.S.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Re Canadian laws...
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I did a bit of research and Canada has a far lower
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> incident of violent
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> crime, i.e. law breaking, then the U.S.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you suppose that this is a matter of better laws or
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> is it a matter
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of a more law abiding people?
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And, I suspect the same applies to The British, and the
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Swiss.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Got it. It has nothing to do with laws or national
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> policies! The people
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> in (say) Windsor, Ontario are a different species than
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> those in (say)
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Detroit, Michigan. Their motivations, morals, reflexes
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> and behaviors are
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> all very, very different. And the people south of that
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> border can never,
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> ever be expected to stop trying to kill one another..
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm learning so much here!
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> (Again, please note the sarcasm.)
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Be as sarcastic as you will but reality shows a very
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> different
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> picture:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Crime
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population Canada
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Offences / 100,000 population U.S.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Rape
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Canada 1.69
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 27.31
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Assault
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Canada 150.81
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 246.84
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Incarcerated
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Canada 104
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. 629
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> And your explanation for the differences, please? Is it
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> genetics? Are Canadians (like Brits, Irish, French, Dutch
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> etc.) are born with some special law abiding gene that's
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> missing in Americans?
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Or is there a chance that a nation's policies and laws
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> actually affect citizens' behaviors?
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> Laws and policies are dynamic and (more or less) reflect the
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> culture. Where there is significant conflict (i.e.,
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> Prohibition) the laws and/or policies change, not the culture.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> You may well argue that alcohol is an anomaly and you meant
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> well understood crimes of long standing such as theft and
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> robbery and that those are different. You'd be wrong.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-yorks-no-bail-law-leaves-a-trail-of-violence/ar-BB1gmfaq
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/us/alvin-bragg-manhattan-district-attorney-crimes-prosecution/index.html
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> https://www.foxla.com/news/gascon-launches-diversion-program-for-minors-who-commit-felony-burglary-vehicle-theft-robbery
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/meet-chesa-boudin-the-rogue-prosecutor-wreaking-havoc-san-francisco
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> You need only look at the massive increase in the most violent crimes under the Democrats to see that they have played directly into the hands of the criminals.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/27/what-we-know-about-the-increase-in-u-s-murders-in-2020/ft_21-010-19_murderrate_3a/
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> Shows murders from about 1968 to 2020. Up with Nixon, down a bit with Ford, then up with Carter, then down and up with Reagan and Bush1, then down down down with Clinton, Bush2, Obama first term, then up Obama second term and UP UP UP at the end of Trump term. Trump had the HIGHEST increase in history for murders during his final year.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>> Yes that's true but you miss the state/local differences
> >> >> >> >>>>>> which are critical because Federal murder prosecution is
> >> >> >> >>>>>> extremely rare:
> >> >> >> >>>>>> https://qz.com/162289/217-years-of-homicide-in-new-york/
> >> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>> Typically (shows local differences)
> >> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>> https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/08/us/us-murder-rates-1473385452240/us-murder-rates-1473385452240-videoSixteenByNine3000.png?year=2016&h=1687&w=3000&sig=0xa5fc7ca9d975cc8f21d29a25deecab99&tw=1
> >> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>> Can't find comparative charts through 2021, a year in which
> >> >> >> >>>>>> many cities gave up on law enforcement (or actively promoted
> >> >> >> >>>>>> arson riot and looting) but here's a resource through 2019:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>> https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm
> >> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>> Do you really believe those statistics? They are plainly being manipulated by using numbers per 100,000 rather than actual numbers. Exactly how much are they rounding off and in which direction? It is all BS if you ask me.
> >> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>> OK.
> >> >> >> >>>> Time is finite and I spent as much of it as I thought
> >> >> >> >>>> appropriate on a web search. Find better data and link it
> >> >> >> >>>> when you find it, THX.
> >> >> >> >>> I don't quite understand the problem here Andrew. The Democrats simply hide the numbers of deaths by putting them in a context in which they don't look "that bad".
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> For instance, there were almost three times as many people murdered in New York City in 2021 than have fallen so far in the Ukraine!
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Russia attacked Ukraine on Wednesday last week. So Russia has been attacking Ukraine for 5 days now. I saw an article on Yahoo that said 352 dead Ukrainians so far. About 70 per day killed by Russians. New York City had 365 days during 2021. 365 x 70 = 25,500. I'm not too surprised New York City had more people murdered in 2021 than have died in Ukraine so far. Heck, if they only murdered one person per day in New York City in 2021, they would still outnumber the amount of Ukrainians killed by Russia. But Tommy boy is claiming three times as many murdered in New York City than in Ukraine. I have 352 murdered in Ukraine by Russia. So three times that is about 1056. I used Google to look up the murders in New York City in 2021.. 485 is the total. So New York City in all of 2021 had 38% more murders than the number of people killed in Ukraine by Russia. Tommy, did you get your "three times" number by dividing 1 by 38% and getting 2.63 and then rounded up to 3?
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> https://nypost.com/2022/01/01/nyc-recorded-485-murders-in-2021/
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> There were MORE Americans murdered in Chicago over the length of the Iraq War than there were in Iraq! If you allow these morons to continue to pay games with statistics no one knows or can understand anything. What is going on in Democrat led cities and states is nothing less than a war.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> Of course we could be stupid like Frank and blame it on guns.. Or we can face the facts that the Democrats make condition of hatred in groups in order to foment support simply to obtain control of the masses. Don't you think we should stop playing their games?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Well, how about some pleasant numbers instead?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >The 'inadequate' Ukraine military with large numbers of
> >> >> >> >'unskilled' citizenry have dispatched a few thousand Russian
> >> >> >> >conscripts and taken prisoners, wrecked hundreds of vehicles
> >> >> >> >(including with molotovs) and shown great courage along with
> >> >> >> >their resourcefulness.
> >> >> >> Is that from the current escapade?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I tried looking up "Deaths in Ukraine War" and found that there has
> >> >> >> been considerable unrest in the Ukraine since 2014, at least, with
> >> >> >> quite a bit of pro Russian sentiment and anti Russian sentiment
> >> >> >> occurring.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Apparently the current situation is really not as isolated an event
> >> >> >> as the news, or at least the news here, might have it.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Which, of course, doesn't justify anything but it is interesting to
> >> >> >> see that the current "war" has an 8 year history of discord.
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> John B.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >As Andy replied, this week. Since last Wednesday or Thursday I believe. Crimea peninsula was taken over by Russia in 2014. I forget how much battle occurred then. And the two areas of Ukraine in the SE corner in which Putin said now belong to Russia last week, there has been fighting between pro Russia and pro Ukraine forces there for several years now. But I don't believe they have been shooting and bombing non stop every day for several years now. I think its more of a shooting breaks out every now and then situation. Not non stop shooting. I think the current invasion is non stop shooting and bombing going on. All over Ukraine. Especially Kyiv Ukraine where 3 million people live.
> >> >> The article I read talked about 2200 fatalities since 2014. And there
> >> >> are, apparently, a substantial number of people living in the Ukraine
> >> >> who would prefer to "be Russians".
> >> >
> >> >I'm pretty sure there is a substantial number of Hispanic, Mexican, people living in the California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, who would prefer to "be Mexicans".
> >> Well, if the "Hispanic, Mexican people" want to be Mexican it is only
> >> a short trip to Mexico where I'd guess they would be made welcome, so
> >> why don't they go?
> >
> >One could easily, and correctly say the exact same thing about the Donetsk and Luhansk provinces in Ukraine. They border Russia itself. Yet Putin declared the Russians living in these areas were being persecuted and sent in peace keeping troops to keep the peace and allow the regions to separate from Ukraine. There has been fighting in these regions for a number of years now. Separatists and nationalists, etc. But why didn't all the people who wanted to be Russians just walk across the border into Russia? Why did Putin send in troops? Couldn't he have just put up a Welcome sign on the border? And gotten some people with megaphones on the border yelling "Come on in!".
> I think that you are talking about two different things. Relatively
> recent immigrants in the case of the Spanish speakers in the U.S. and
> people who have lived for generations in the case of the Ukraine. The
> Ukraine was "Russian" since what? The 1920's?
> Certainly a large number were born and grew up as Russians.

You do know Texas was MEXICAN until the 1830s or 1840s? I am sure lots of Texans, of Hispanic origin, have been in Texas far longer than any Caucasians have been in Texas. Yet I suspect many are told to go home to Mexico on a daily basis. And are considered immigrants. I do not know anything about the Ukraine provinces where there is a predominant amount of Russians. They probably have been there since shortly after Lenin took control in the late 1910s. Put there by Lenin and/or Stalin during the 1920s and 1930s and 1940s and 1950s. So they have ties to Russia the mother country. But they lived their whole lives in Ukraine. They were born in Ukraine. As for the Mexicans born and raised in Texas, should they take the bottom half of Texas to Mexico? Seems there is much more of a rational and logical rationale for sending the bottom half of Texas to Mexico than for sending the south portion of Ukraine to Russia.

>
> Which, doesn't have any relationship to what Putin says or does. Given
> that Putin certainly is not a stupid individual I would assume that
> there was to be some gain for Russia in acquiring the Ukraine. Coal
> and steel in the Western part? More direct access to the Black Sea? Or
> simply to prevent the country from joining NATO?

I fully agree Putin is not stupid. Maybe irrational in some respects and maybe a bit mentally unstable too. But not stupid. Russia had some reasons for invading Ukraine. Like the ones you listed. But will it work out for them? Don't know. Right now it appears to not be working out too well. And I would guess over the long term and the short term, it will not be judged a wise Russian move. But I could be wrong. It might end up being a smart strategic move by Russia. Or the beginning of the end of Russia as a whole.

> >
> >>
> >> But, I've worked with a number of Spanish speaking blokes, mostly from
> >> California and certainly they didn't seem to want to "go back to
> >> Mexico", or where ever their family originated. And I grew up in a
> >> small New England town where, roughly, half the population had
> >> relatively recently come from Canada - some, the older folk - couldn't
> >> speak much if any English, and they didn't seem to want to go back.
> >>
> >> I think you are wrong and I'd guess that most recent immigrants would
> >> fight, tooth and nail, of you tried to force them to go "back home".
> >> >There are also lots and lots of white supremacists, neo Nazi followers in the USA would love to kill all the Jews and blacks and Mexicans.
> >> So what? There are any number of "rabid" people in the U.S.
> >> Tom Kunich, right here, is foretelling the slaughter of all the
> >> Democrats just as soon as the Republicans can gain power again.
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> John B.
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.