On 3/2/2022 6:16 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/2/2022 12:37 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 3/2/2022 10:10 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 3/1/2022 8:40 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 19:40:29 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/1/2022 4:34 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/1/2022 2:52 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/1/2022 3:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/1/2022 1:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/1/2022 11:47 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/1/2022 10:04 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When you explain to me _why_ you think Canadians
>>>>>>>>>>> are ...
>>>>>>>>>>> inherently? genetically? ... more civilized than
>>>>>>>>>>> Americans,
>>>>>>>>>>> you'll have a point.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> BTW, your explanation should also apply to Brits,
>>>>>>>>>>> Irish,
>>>>>>>>>>> French, Swedes and so many other countries that
>>>>>>>>>>> have far
>>>>>>>>>>> fewer gun deaths than the U.S. (Since you brought
>>>>>>>>>>> up the
>>>>>>>>>>> subject, I'll rely on you to look up their rates of
>>>>>>>>>>> rape and
>>>>>>>>>>> other violent crimes.)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Until you come up with a better explanation, I'm
>>>>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>>>>> assume that differences in gun death rates have a
>>>>>>>>>>> lot
>>>>>>>>>>> to do
>>>>>>>>>>> with their national policies, as implemented by
>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>> laws,
>>>>>>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Briefly, my view is that national policies make a
>>>>>>>>>>> big
>>>>>>>>>>> difference in how people behave.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Your view is, apparently, "Americans are just bad."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Feel free to restate your view if it's different.
>>>>>>>>>>> And
>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>> change the subject, John. This is what we are
>>>>>>>>>>> talking
>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>> _now_.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When Andrew Cuomo was Mr Cinton's HUD Secretary, he
>>>>>>>>>> announced a firearm buyback program for residents of
>>>>>>>>>> public housing. Reporter asked if firearms made
>>>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>>>> housing dangerous or if residents felt a need to arm
>>>>>>>>>> themselves for  protection because their
>>>>>>>>>> hallways and
>>>>>>>>>> neighborhoods had become more dangerous.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Which doesn't address John's implication that
>>>>>>>>> Americans are
>>>>>>>>> just fundamentally evil. I guess that's his way of
>>>>>>>>> saying
>>>>>>>>> that laws and policies make no difference.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But I wonder what those public housing residents are
>>>>>>>>> afraid
>>>>>>>>> of? Is it punks with slingshots? Or punks with some
>>>>>>>>> different weaponry?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What do people in violent neighborhoods fear? Knives,
>>>>>>>> beatings, assaults of various severity and yes
>>>>>>>> firearms.
>>>>>>>> Get rid of firearms and you have the same vicious
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> then add in an incitement to tyranny of an unarmed
>>>>>>>> population.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For an elderly woman with some guy coming through her
>>>>>>>> bedroom window, a knife or club is of limited utility.
>>>>>>>> When seconds matter, 911 is just twenty minutes away.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As usual, I wonder about other countries. Do they not
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> the problems you describe to the degree Americans do? If
>>>>>>> they don't, why not? Is it genetics? Or is it laws and
>>>>>>> policies?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If they do have the problems, how do they manage them
>>>>>>> without every elderly woman owning an AR rifle or rapid
>>>>>>> fire
>>>>>>> handgun?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you mean by 'rapid fire' ? Typical home defense
>>>>>> pistols are
>>>>>> revolvers and striker type 9mm (or .380 /.40). Those all
>>>>>> fire at the
>>>>>> same speed[1].
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll bet you can't find even one police or news report
>>>>>> in the past year
>>>>>> in USA where a full-auto pistol was used for home
>>>>>> self-defense.
>>>>>
>>>>> I did not say "full auto." And I'd say even nine rounds
>>>>> at two rounds
>>>>> per second qualifies as "rapid fire." Hunters don't do
>>>>> that. Target
>>>>> shooters do that only if they're pretending to be in
>>>>> combat.
>>>>>
>>>>>> OTOH which of these scenarios would you prefer for your
>>>>>> relative or
>>>>>> yourself?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A) This common crime?
>>>>>> https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-wordle-mother-saved-lincolnwood-20220211-ecz5istdfrhvzdin4kibdwyrmi-story.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> B) or more like this?
>>>>>> https://www.foxnews.com/us/elderly-man-shoots-kills-half-naked-home-intruder-who-assaulted-his-wife
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Common crime"?? Talk about a "Danger! Danger!" statement!
>>>>>
>>>>> Somehow, the universe I live in is not nearly so scary,
>>>>> at least to me
>>>>> and mine.
>>>>>
>>>>> But yet again: Why is it necessary for each U.S.
>>>>> household to be armed
>>>>> for protection? Why is it not necessary in Canada,
>>>>> Britain, Norway,
>>>>> Portugal...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> {1} in the real world.
>>>>>> In TeeVee world, firearms are magic lead-spraying
>>>>>> devices which always
>>>>>> hit the intended target such as the bad guy's wrist when
>>>>>> wielded by good
>>>>>> guy. Bad guy firearms also spray huge quantities just
>>>>>> over good guy's
>>>>>> head with magic sound effects.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm well aware of that silly glorification of gun culture.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, I read that from 1949 to 2021 there were some 512
>>>> homicides in
>>>> mass shootings and from 1949 until 2018 there were 51,403
>>>> killed on
>>>> bicycles.
>>>
>>> Benefits vs. detriments, John. Benefits vs. detriments. I
>>> can list the benefits of bicycling (again!) if necessary.
>>> They've repeatedly been shown to tremendously outweigh the
>>> detriments.
>>>
>>> What are the practical benefits of letting any macho nutcase
>>> buy things like AR rifles? I don't believe you've ever
>>> answered that question!
>>>
>>> You also haven't answered the closely related question of
>>> how you manage to get by without owning one. ISTM that's
>>> proof these guns are far from essential.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> For a roughly similar price range and a roughly similar
>> installed base of both products ( bicycles and firearms)
>> your personal bias seems at least out of step with general
>> USA opinion. Which is fine, but you're not the arbiter and
>> a large number of people see the problem differently.
>
> That statement avoided answering the question. What are the
> practical benefits of letting any macho nutcase by things
> like AR rifles? After all, we can count the detriments,
> starting with body counts.
>
> The most cogent answer I've heard is here:
> https://youtu.be/0rR9IaXH1M0?t=101 up to 2:00
>
> although the rest of that is certainly worth attention. Lots
> of good points.
>

Assault rifles? As in full auto sturmgewehr? Really? Good
luck with that FFL process:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/apply-license

Misapplying terms does not help his argument.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971