On 3/4/2022 6:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/4/2022 6:30 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 11:44:48 AM UTC-6, Frank
>> Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 3/3/2022 11:32 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 21:16:42 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/2/2022 9:27 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 19:52:58 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You seem to have set up a couple of weird
>>>>>>> comparisons. You've alluded to
>>>>>>> all owners of bikes, then a small subset of cyclists,
>>>>>>> then the owners of
>>>>>>> one type of gun.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No Frank, you talk about benefits and I'm simply
>>>>>> demonstrating that
>>>>>> there are less then a million people in the U.S. who
>>>>>> are actually
>>>>>> benefited by bicycles. Your imagined benefits are
>>>>>> simply "Oh! I wanna
>>>>>> do dat!"
>>>>>
>>>>> You're off by a factor of over 40.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.statista.com/topics/1686/cycling/
>>>>>> You, have posted here, if I'm not mistaken, that you
>>>>>> own a bicycle, a
>>>>>> motorcycle and a car so obviously the bicycle is not
>>>>>> your "must have
>>>>>> it" means of transportation. So what is it? Simply an
>>>>>> adult - Oh, I
>>>>>> want to do that - toy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In fact the actual hard, cold, I got to have it to get
>>>>>> to work,
>>>>>> benefit of bicycles amounts to what? Perhaps 0.3% of
>>>>>> the population.
>>>>>> (That is about 1/3 of 1 percent)
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't pretend that bicycles benefit ONLY bike
>>>>> commuters. I'm retired, so
>>>>> no longer commute by bike; but I still use the bike to
>>>>> get groceries,
>>>>> library books, visit friends and yes, just ride for
>>>>> exercise and fun.
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe you do at least the latter. You therefore
>>>>> must perceive _some_
>>>>> benefit from that activity.
>>>>>
>>>>> And as I've alluded to many times, many researchers who
>>>>> take this very
>>>>> seriously have determined the benefits of bicycling are
>>>>> real, and
>>>>> greatly outweigh its risks.
>>>>
>>>> Certainly cycling has benefits. After all, anything that
>>>> get you up
>>>> off the couch, even walking to the front door to check
>>>> for mail has
>>>> some "bennies".
>>>>
>>>> As for most of your assertions - you ride to the
>>>> library, etc., while,
>>>> yes, the benefits are better then sitting in a rocking
>>>> chair but they
>>>> aren't as great as they might be. Or to put it another
>>>> way, they could
>>>> be greater for the time spent.
>>>>
>>>> So, what you are really saying is. "Well, it is a nice
>>>> day. I guess
>>>> I'll ride my bike to the library rather then taking the
>>>> car or the
>>>> motorcycle"
>>>>
>>>>> 20:1 benefit: Mayer Hillman, "Cycling and the Promotion
>>>>> of Health,"
>>>>> Policy Studies, Summer 1993, Vol. 14 (2) states that
>>>>> the years of life
>>>>> gained through cycling exceeds the years of life lost
>>>>> through cycling by
>>>>> "around 20 to one." Hillman's computation was for not
>>>>> only the cyclists
>>>>> themselves, but also for those not cycling, but still
>>>>> benefitting from
>>>>> reduced pollution, reduced risk of being struck by a
>>>>> car, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Interesting that you quote him as he also wrote
>>>> "Given that helmets are very effective, cyclists would
>>>> have to
>>>> increase their risk taking fourfold to overcome the
>>>> protective effect
>>>> of helmets. This seems unlikely."
>>>>
>>>> Which you have posted innumerable times that you
>>>> disagree with.
>>>>
>>>>> 7:1 benefit: Jeroen J. de Hartog, "Do the Health
>>>>> Benefits of Cycling
>>>>> Outweigh the Risks?", Environmental Health
>>>>> Perspectives, 118(8), Aug.
>>>>> 2010 found a benefit to risk ratio of seven to one for
>>>>> cyclists
>>>>> themselves in Britain, and nine to one for cyclists in
>>>>> Holland.
>>>>>
>>>>> 77:1 benefit: David Rojas-Rueda, "The health risks and
>>>>> benefits of
>>>>> cycling in urban environments compared with car use",
>>>>> British Medical
>>>>> Journal 2011: 343: d4512 found years of life gained
>>>>> outweighed years of
>>>>> life lost by a 77 to one margin, for those who chose to
>>>>> use Barcelona's
>>>>> bike share system instead of using a car.
>>>>>
>>>>> 18:1 benefit: Ari Rabl, "Benefits of shift from car to
>>>>> active
>>>>> transport", Transport Policy 19 (2012) 121-131 computed
>>>>> benefits versus
>>>>> risks in terms of "mortality cost" in Euros for the
>>>>> person cycling.
>>>>> Cycling was found to confer an average of 1310 € per
>>>>> year due to health
>>>>> gains, versus 72 € detriments due to pollution
>>>>> exposure and crash risk.
>>>>> Thus benefits exceeded risks by 18 to one.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are more, but I won't bother citing. I know
>>>>> you'll ignore those
>>>>> and change the subject.
>>>>
>>>> All of which say essentially the same thing that
>>>> bicycling is better
>>>> then nothing.
>>>>
>>>> Back in my younger days I used to get up and run 5 miles
>>>> every
>>>> morning, except Sunday, before breakfast and even now I
>>>> walk every
>>>> morning and the number of calories expended - I don't
>>>> know how to
>>>> measure the work done any other way - is greater then
>>>> bicycling for
>>>> the same period.
>>> We may bicycle to get groceries later today. We
>>> frequently do that. It's
>>> a 6.2 mile round trip.
>>>
>>> Would you walk or run six miles to carry home
>>> 20-something pounds of
>>> groceries? Of course not. You'd drive.
>>
>> Where I used to live, I walked 1.5 miles round trip to the
>> grocery store. Carrying heavy groceries home was
>> unpleasant. Many times I carried home 2 liter bottles of
>> soda pop. 6 or 8 bottles total. 25 to 35 pounds
>> roughly. My arms were longer when I got home. I have a
>> touring bike with panniers and a rack bag. So I could
>> have easily used that bike and bags to carry 9 bottles
>> home. But that seemed like too much work to get that bike
>> and bags out and use it for such a short walk.
>
> The last bike I built up was specifically made to be super
> easy to use, so no ride is too short. Three speed hub, front
> Dynohub, upright bars, flat pedals work even with my hiking
> boots, front basket, handlebar mirror so I don't even have
> to clip on an eyeglass mirror, an old 52 tooth chainring
> with teeth removed to use as a chainguard so I don't have to
> clip my pants cuffs. I carry it up ~5 steps out the back
> basement door and jump on.
>
> I think in marketing terms, this is called "reducing
> friction" - i.e. making an operation as easy as possible.
>
>

+1

Although the bike I've owned longest is my much beloved
Raleigh Sports (like yours, 3x with DynoHub) my fixed gear
bike, built sort of on a lark in 1992, has proved even more
useful, exactly because I don't love it- so I don't fret
about salt water, dings and scratches, etc. It just always
works and it's always ready to ride- so I do.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971