On Sun, 6 Mar 2022 14:28:46 -0800 (PST), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:09:32 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
>> On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 17:17:01 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 11:54:38 AM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >> On 3/4/2022 8:43 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >> > On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 20:02:22 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> >> > <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On 3/4/2022 7:03 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >> >>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 12:58:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> >> >>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> On 3/3/2022 9:47 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >> >>>>> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 20:48:51 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> >> >>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> On 3/3/2022 8:29 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>> "Assault rifles" as in commonly used language - rifles with
>> >> >>>>>>>>> multiple design features originally and purposely included
>> >> >>>>>>>>> for effectiveness in assault or other combat.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>> Yes, some people prefer to restrict the definition to those
>> >> >>>>>>>>> guns having built in full auto capability. Some do not use
>> >> >>>>>>>>> that restriction.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>> If accessories are readily available to allow emptying a 30
>> >> >>>>>>>>> round magazine in much less than ten seconds, I think the
>> >> >>>>>>>>> restricted definition is worthless. That capability is
>> >> >>>>>>>>> intended for combat or assault.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> The thing is that nearly all "improvements" in firearm design was
>> >> >>>>>>> intended to make them a more effective combat weapon.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> John, IIRC you've said you used to hunt. I assume you used a shotgun or
>> >> >>>>>> a rifle, as is typical with most hunters.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Care to tell us what models, and what design features it had that made
>> >> >>>>>> it a "more effective combat weapon," as opposed to a better hunting weapon?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Well, tell me what a "better hunting weapon" is.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> But your argue is ridiculous at best. I say that nearly all
>> >> >>>>> improvements were intended to make then more effective combat weapons"
>> >> >>>>> and you start talking about hunting.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> My first rifle was a ,22 single shot bolt action Winchester rifle. the
>> >> >>>>> first single shot bolt action rifle was developed by von Dreyse and
>> >> >>>>> used by the army of Prussia in 1841.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> In later years I built "varmint rifles" based on the "short mauser"
>> >> >>>>> actions - all surplus from some army or another, a bolt action, action
>> >> >>>>> with a magazine, developed by Peter Paul and Wilhelm Mauser and
>> >> >>>>> accepted by the Prussian government on 2 December 1871.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> I could go on but why bother as just about any firearm you can mention
>> >> >>>>> is, or has been, used by the military or law enforcement and with the
>> >> >>>>> exception of the early "Elephant Rifles" I can think of no "guns"
>> >> >>>>> developed solely for hunting,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Tell us more about your hunting rifles. Did they have a shorter barrel
>> >> >>>> length, like an AR, or longer barrel length like most other rifles?
>> >> >>>> Barrels as short as 15 inches are great for street warfare. Most hunters
>> >> >>>> want something well over 20 inches.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Did your hunting rifles have pistol grips? They're very handy if you've
>> >> >>>> got to jump and dodge around to avoid real or pretend enemy fire. Did
>> >> >>>> the squirrels and woodchucks fire back at you, making that grip necessary?
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> How big was the magazine, and how fast was the action on your hunting
>> >> >>>> rifle? Could you empty a 30 round magazine into a rabbit in less than
>> >> >>>> ten seconds? And hey, could you fit a drum magazine in case 30 rounds
>> >> >>>> didn't take down that rabbit?
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Did you use a "red dot" sight? You can get on target SO much faster,
>> >> >>>> which is handy if the deer you're after is also shooting back at you.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I could go on, but I'd appreciate answers to those questions instead of
>> >> >>>> evasions.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> You know Frank, I believe that you have really "gone right round the
>> >> >>> bend" as they used to say. A 15" barrel is great for street fighting?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> But o.k. Barrel lengths:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Barrel length, from a technical view point, is based on two things.
>> >> >>> (1) the necessary length to allow for burning the majority of the
>> >> >>> powder charge.
>> >> >>> This is the reason that slow burning black powder weapons had a much
>> >> >>> long barrel then is necessary for modern fast burning smokeless powder
>> >> >>> weapons. And:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> (2) to provide, with "iron sights", the necessary length between the
>> >> >>> front and rear sight to produce accuracy.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Oh yes, I forget, with a military weapon a longer barrel was thought
>> >> >>> to make a better weapon when the bayonet was attached as in years gone
>> >> >>> by the basic Infantry tactic was to march, in formation, up to,
>> >> >>> perhaps 50 yards, or even closer, to the enemy. Present the musket,
>> >> >>> fire, and charge with the bayonet.
>> >> >>> This was highly successful in wars from about 1420 until the invention
>> >> >>> of the Minne Bullet, in the mid 1800's.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Next question, big magazines... Well, rifles and pistols have had
>> >> >>> "large" magazines for years and years. .22 rifles have had magazines
>> >> >>> that extended the full length of the barrel, certainly as ling as I've
>> >> >>> been around. And, as I have repeatedly mentioned 30 round magazines
>> >> >>> have been available for the German Luger, since WW I days.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Lets see... Red Dot sights. That is a subject abut which I have no
>> >> >>> personal knowledge but optical sights, in general were first made
>> >> >>> because it allowed the shooter to see better and thus aim more
>> >> >>> accurately then with the so called "iron sights".
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> But more to the point.
>> >> >>> Why this irrational terror regarding modern firearms? After all you
>> >> >>> are, statistically, in twice as much danger from a Black man with
>> >> >>> his fist clenched then you are from the terrifying AR type of firearm.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> John, you carefully avoided answering each question.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Based on that, I assume not one of the features I asked about was on
>> >> >> your hunting guns.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Which is not surprising. Those features, common on ARs, are rarely worth
>> >> >> having on a gun used for hunting. Their value is for combat situations.
>> >> >> Or for pretending to be in a combat situation.
>> >> >
>> >> > Yes, you did state "hunting rifles" and I replied to you giving you
>> >> > the technically answers to your questions - with the exception of the
>> >> > red dot things which I'm not familiar with.
>> >> You replied by assiduously evading my direct questions about your
>> >> specific guns. Can't you be man enough to own up to it?
>> >
>> >Not to take John's side or your side in this rousing argument. But I do not think wise, intelligent, thinking people talk about their own personal guns in public. That is something only done by YouTube idiots and other senseless braggarts. There are some things, like your social security number, or your favorite sex positions, that should not be talked about in public. Detailed gun ownership is one of them.
>> Well, I wouldn't exactly say that. It is quite common for, target
>> shooters, for example to extol the advantages or bemoan the decencies
>> of the gun that they are using.
>
>Yes in certain situations, a person can and does brag about his equipment. As you state, sharp shooting rifles with twelve different scopes and lenses on them and various adjustable weights hanging on them to counter balance the rotation of the earth and gravity. Used exclusively by target shooters in competitions. Or Revolutionary war or Daniel Boone recreators. They may wax eloquently about their flintlock rifle and authentic hand made black powder and hand cast lead bullets they fire out of their beloved rifles. But for the average, general public citizen, it is very unwise to publicly discuss and disclose the guns they own. And for your target shooters, they are carrying on their conversations exclusively with other target shooters.

Well, I'm not sure about the home made black powder. I've actually
made some and discovered why "grained" or "corned" gunpowder became so
popular (:-)

But why ever not talk about guns? Or girls? Or how much whiskey you
drank at the party last Saturday night? All of which, I might note, I
have heard discussed in various groups.

Or even bicycles, for that matter?
--
Cheers,

John B.