On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 10:15:24 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 21:57:55 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >On 3/8/2022 6:06 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 11:34:26 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 3/8/2022 9:24 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 3/7/2022 11:58 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>> On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 7:02:44 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>> On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 08:14:53 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Stolen weapons used in crime are more common in areas where
> >>>>>>> legal ownership is most restricted:
> >>>>>>> https://cwbchicago.com/
> >>>>>> I would guess that a rather limited number of people commit crimes
> >>>>>> with a legally procured and licensed (where required) weapon. (:-)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> John B.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> No.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting
> >>>>> The Las Vegas murder of 60 concert goers and wounding of 411 was done
> >>>>> with legally purchased guns and ammunition.
> >>>>> "During the subsequent investigation, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
> >>>>> Firearms and Explosives determined that the firearms found in his
> >>>>> hotel room, along with more guns found in his homes, had been legally
> >>>>> purchased in Nevada, California, Texas, and Utah."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Atlanta_spa_shootings
> >>>>> "The suspect, Robert Aaron Long, legally purchased a 9mm handgun at
> >>>>> Big Woods Goods, a firearms store and indoor gun range in Holly
> >>>>> Springs, hours before the shooting. Like most states, Georgia does not
> >>>>> have a waiting period to buy a gun."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_nightclub_shooting#Weapons
> >>>>> "Federal officials said a SIG Sauer MCX semi-automatic rifle and a 9mm
> >>>>> Glock 17 semi-automatic pistol were recovered from Mateen's body,
> >>>>> along with additional rounds. Mateen had legally purchased the two
> >>>>> guns used in the shooting from a shop in Port St. Lucie: the SIG Sauer
> >>>>> MCX rifle on June 4 and the Glock 17 pistol on June 5."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_shooting
> >>>>> "The shooting prompted the state of Virginia to close legal loopholes
> >>>>> that had allowed individuals adjudicated as mentally unsound to
> >>>>> purchase handguns without detection by the National Instant Criminal
> >>>>> Background Check System (NICS)."
> >>>>> "Cho used two pistols during the attacks: a .22-caliber Walther P22
> >>>>> semi-automatic handgun and a 9 mm semi-automatic Glock 19 handgun."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting
> >>>>> "Under Connecticut law at the time, the 20-year-old Lanza was old
> >>>>> enough to carry a long gun, such as a rifle or shotgun, but too young
> >>>>> to own or carry handguns. The guns he used had been purchased legally
> >>>>> by his mother."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutherland_Springs_church_shooting
> >>>>> "Kelley purchased the semi-automatic rifle used in the shooting from
> >>>>> an Academy Sports + Outdoors store in San Antonio on April 7, 2016.
> >>>>> He filled out the required ATF Form 4473 and falsely indicated that he
> >>>>> did not have a disqualifying criminal history."
> >>>>> In this one instance, the guns were purchased illegally.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> So we can agree that laws, no matter how restrictive and punitive to the
> >>>> general population, are not effective against psychopaths, jihadis and
> >>>> the like.
> >>>
> >>> No, we cannot! As mentioned previously in detail, Canada doubtlessly has
> >>> a psychopath/jihadi density similar to the U.S. But they have far, far
> >>> fewer gun deaths. The same can be said for Britain, Ireland, Australia,
> >>> France, Germany, etc. etc.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Nope. Wrong again Tommy, err Franky.
> >> https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/16-countries-with-the-highest-mental-illness-rates-in-the-world-649757/?singlepage=1
> >>
> >> The U.S. seems to be #3 in the world while Canada isn't even
> >> mentioned.
> >
> >Nice try, John! You had me almost ready to say "OK, you're right." But
> >that went away as soon as I began reading your link.
> >
> >Two points: First, my statement which echoed Andrew's was about
> >"psychopaths" and "jihadis." The link you gave seemed to concentrate on
> >things like simple depression. Those are very different maladies or
> >mental states. Your typical depressed individual can't get motivated to
> >make the bed, let alone acquire arms and commit an act of terrorism.
> >
> >Second, if you think Switzerland, France, Germany etc. are comparable to
> >the U.S. in mental problems, then why don't they have America's gun
> >violence problem?
> >
> >The obvious answer is what I've been saying: The U.S. problem isn't
> >population insanity or some inherent evil in Americans.
> >
> >National policies and laws DO make a big difference. We just have crappy
> >gun laws, and many thousands of lives are ruined each year because of them.
> Gee Frank, I do believe that you have "gone right round the bend" as
> the saying goes. Jihads are gun criminals?
>
> And here I had always understood that Jihads were the extensively
> religious people. The word "jihad", in Arabic, simply means to strive
> or struggle and is generally used in the sense of striving or
> struggling against the non-believers.
> I might add that I spent many years in Indonesia the largest
> (population wise) Islamic country in the world.
>
> And now you are telling me that they are just gun criminals.

I'm sure you already know this John, but just in case I will spell it out. In the USA, a "Jihadi" or "Jihadist" or whatever the proper term is, means an Arab Muslim brown skinned black haired terrorist who murders white Caucasian Christians. That is the definition. Just like "Coke" means any and all carbonated soft drinks. Doesn't matter if its officially a Coca Cola product or a Pepsi Cola or a Mountain Dew or a 7-Up. Its all Coke. All Jihadis are Arab Muslim terrorists.

>
> But if bad gun laws are really the cause of the levels of crime in the
> U.S. how do you explain the fact that some states, Vermont comes to
> mind here, have very, very lax, or non existent, gun laws and a very
> low level of gun crime. The "upper" New England States, New Hampshire,
> Vermont and Maine have gun ownership of 41.10%, 50.5% and 46.80% and a
> gun homicide rate of 0.6/100,000, 1.3 and 1.2. And these states are
> not unique. Oregon has gun ownership of 50,8% and a firearm homicide
> rate of 0.8.
>
> But Louisiana has a gun ownership rate of 53.1% and a firearm homicide
> rate of 8.1. roughly 3% more guns then Vermont and Oregon and as much
> as 10 times the gun crime.
>
> Your arguments don't seem to reflect realism.

Andy in a prior post mentioned having different laws for different areas of the USA. He said rural Wisconsin needs different laws than Milwaukee I believe. And that may be true. But for a country as diverse as the USA, with free travel between all regions, we need one law and rule for everywhere. So doesn't it make sense to implement a law that results in the best outcome, least deaths, for all of USA combined? An analogy: Speeding laws. Some people are able to drive 100 mph and be safe. Others can easily handle 120 mph. Yet most road highways in the USA have 55 or 65 or so speed limits. For the collective good of everyone, we decided to "harm" the fast drivers.

>
> But that is the nice thing about bigotry isn't it. One doesn't have to
> mess about with logic, data or facts. Just seize onto any old idea and
> you are set for life.
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.