On 3/8/2022 8:31 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/8/2022 8:02 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 14:26:52 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/8/2022 12:37 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 3/8/2022 10:09 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 3/8/2022 4:23 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 22:31:47 -0800 (PST),
>>>>>> "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
>>>>>> <ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 8:23:53 PM UTC-6, John B.
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 15:47:26 -0800 (PST),
>>>>>>>> "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>>>>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 4:58:25 PM UTC-6, John B.
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 11:17:12 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/6/2022 10:52 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Mar 2022 19:21:13 -0800 (PST),
>>>>>>>>>>>> "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unlike women, girls, whiskey, alcohol, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bicycles,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> guns are used to kill people. ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yup... and knives are used in mass killings...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Numbers, please? Will you tell us the body count for
>>>>>>>>>>> "mass killings" by
>>>>>>>>>>> knife wielders in the U.S., compared to those
>>>>>>>>>>> perpetrated by those
>>>>>>>>>>> shooting guns?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Feel free to give your own definition of a "mass
>>>>>>>>>>> killing," but one
>>>>>>>>>>> accepted definition (U.S. Dept. of Justice) is
>>>>>>>>>>> killing three or more
>>>>>>>>>>> people in close proximity and within a short time
>>>>>>>>>>> period.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Compare with these:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/mass-murder-without-guns/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/another-california-mass-murder-knife-rampage-kills-4-wounds-2/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regarding your second link, the knife, machete killer
>>>>>>>>> of 4 people in southern California. He killed these
>>>>>>>>> people at a half dozen or so different locations over
>>>>>>>>> several hours. Not your typical mass killing to be
>>>>>>>>> sure. He also drove a silver Mercedes. This occurred a
>>>>>>>>> day or so after an El Paso Texas gunman killed 22 at a
>>>>>>>>> WalMart. With guns. And a killer in Dayton Ohio
>>>>>>>>> shot to
>>>>>>>>> death 9 people before police shot him to death.
>>>>>>>> Well, why penalize a bloke that works hard. Running up
>>>>>>>> and down the
>>>>>>>> street hacking and slashing is pretty strenuous work,
>>>>>>>> you know.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But in a more serious vein which is preferable? To
>>>>>>>> get hit,
>>>>>>>> unexpectedly, and fall down or to have to watch some
>>>>>>>> maniac running
>>>>>>>> down the street hacking and slashing and you know that
>>>>>>>> you can't out
>>>>>>>> run him?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And yes we have "mass shootings here. An Army Sergeant
>>>>>>>> "went mad" and
>>>>>>>> shot a number of people in Korat, Thailand's second (I
>>>>>>>> think) largest
>>>>>>>> city.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes you told us about him a little while ago. And
>>>>>>> if my
>>>>>>> memory is correct, it may not be of course, we talked
>>>>>>> about since this guy was an official Army sergeant, him
>>>>>>> taking an official M16 military rifle off base was not
>>>>>>> too crazy. Of course it was illegal since military
>>>>>>> guns
>>>>>>> can only be taken off base for official military
>>>>>>> operations. And him murdering people was not official
>>>>>>> military protocol.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In fact I think I mentioned this some time ago to
>>>>>>>> illustrate the
>>>>>>>> difference in attitudes between here and there. Had
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> happened in
>>>>>>>> the U.S. Frank would have been hollering and screaming
>>>>>>>> about them
>>>>>>>> there deadly army guns". Here people asked, "What was
>>>>>>>> the matter with
>>>>>>>> Him"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In Thailand does this mass murdering by an Army sergeant
>>>>>>> happen once or twice every single year for the past
>>>>>>> 20-30
>>>>>>> years? If it happens once, as in your example, then
>>>>>>> chalk it up to random events. But if it happens
>>>>>>> regularly as in the USA, then maybe something needs
>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>> studied and a solution found.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope. Not to say that we don't have shootings. I'm not
>>>>>> sure the strict
>>>>>> U.S. definition of "mass shootings" but we do have cases
>>>>>> of people
>>>>>> shooting a whole family.
>>>>>
>>>>> Russell's point is good: The numbers make a difference.
>>>>>
>>>>> You've given ONE example of a mass shooting in
>>>>> Thailand. As
>>>>> Andrew has noted, in the U.S. "That's Wednesday."
>>>>>
>>>>> See
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> As somebody said years ago, "guns don't shoot people,
>>>>>> people shoot
>>>>>> people". So why blame guns?
>>>>>
>>>>> We're blaming _policies_ that allow almost unfettered
>>>>> access
>>>>> to rapid fire weapons optimized for combat. Yes, a person
>>>>> must pull the trigger to shoot someone; but in other
>>>>> nations
>>>>> with more rational policies, people don't shoot people
>>>>> nearly as often.
>>>>>
>>>>> And their daily lives are not negatively impacted by the
>>>>> lack of rapid fire arms. That's because things like ARs
>>>>> have
>>>>> no practical advantages for civilians.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Except you have no explanation for the staggeringly
>>>> large numbers of
>>>> legally owned weapons (more than humans in USA)...
>>>
>>> My explanation would be fashion driven by decades of
>>> subtle marketing
>>> hype. Fear mongering like "You may have to defend your
>>> home," product
>>> placement in countless NCIS TV shows, ludicrous fantasy
>>> posters of a
>>> heavily muscled Trump brandishing one...
>>>
>>>> ... whose owners/operators
>>>> are civil, responsible and not engaged in violence.
>>>
>>> I don't want to give bonus points to the gun culture by
>>> saying "Only a
>>> small percentage murder people." That's way beyond the
>>> liberal "Gold
>>> medal for participating!" given to every kid in class.
>>>
>>> "And Johnny gets a special trophy because he didn't
>>> assault his teacher
>>> this year!"
>>>
>>> If we passed out a hand grenade to every household, only
>>> a minority
>>> would explode them. But it would still be a really stupid
>>> idea.
>>
>> But you are just making things up. No gold medals for
>> participating
>> true... but no gold medals for not stealing cars, and no
>> gold medal
>> for not robbing banks, and on and on.
>>
>> I pointed out that bicycles had killed more people - some
>> hundred
>> times more, then the terrible "mass shootings" and you
>> dismissed them
>> although they were higher then the combat deaths in
>> Vietnam which I
>> remind you so terrified the youth of American that they
>> fled the
>> country.
>>
>> And you will leap into the fray, shouting "BUT bicycles
>> have an
>> advantage!" Yup, I agree, an advantage in killing people.
>> Think of it,
>> 100 times as many dead on bicycles as died in mass shootings.
>>
>> I think I'll let you keep those advantages. I don't want
>> any part of
>> them.
>
> Do you ride a bike? You have claimed to.
>
> That indicates you judge the benefits of riding to be
> greater than the detriments. And as I've indicated via many
> citations, you'd be right.
>
> So are you now arguing against your own behavior?? Really??
>

Benefit for whom? How much benefit? And in Milton Friedman's
pithy and poignant query, "Who Decides?"

https://www.alibris.com/Free-to-Choose-Milton-Friedman/book/2450309?matches=44

As with work trucks, people can look at the same facts and
draw radically different conclusions.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971