On 3/8/2022 9:02 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 21:31:53 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 3/8/2022 8:02 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 14:26:52 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/8/2022 12:37 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 3/8/2022 10:09 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/8/2022 4:23 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 22:31:47 -0800 (PST),
>>>>>>> "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
>>>>>>> <ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 8:23:53 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 15:47:26 -0800 (PST),
>>>>>>>>> "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>>>>>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 4:58:25 PM UTC-6, John B.
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 11:17:12 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/6/2022 10:52 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Mar 2022 19:21:13 -0800 (PST),
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unlike women, girls, whiskey, alcohol, or bicycles,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guns are used to kill people. ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yup... and knives are used in mass killings...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Numbers, please? Will you tell us the body count for
>>>>>>>>>>>> "mass killings" by
>>>>>>>>>>>> knife wielders in the U.S., compared to those
>>>>>>>>>>>> perpetrated by those
>>>>>>>>>>>> shooting guns?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Feel free to give your own definition of a "mass
>>>>>>>>>>>> killing," but one
>>>>>>>>>>>> accepted definition (U.S. Dept. of Justice) is
>>>>>>>>>>>> killing three or more
>>>>>>>>>>>> people in close proximity and within a short time
>>>>>>>>>>>> period.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Compare with these:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/mass-murder-without-guns/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/another-california-mass-murder-knife-rampage-kills-4-wounds-2/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regarding your second link, the knife, machete killer
>>>>>>>>>> of 4 people in southern California. He killed these
>>>>>>>>>> people at a half dozen or so different locations over
>>>>>>>>>> several hours. Not your typical mass killing to be
>>>>>>>>>> sure. He also drove a silver Mercedes. This occurred a
>>>>>>>>>> day or so after an El Paso Texas gunman killed 22 at a
>>>>>>>>>> WalMart. With guns. And a killer in Dayton Ohio shot to
>>>>>>>>>> death 9 people before police shot him to death.
>>>>>>>>> Well, why penalize a bloke that works hard. Running up
>>>>>>>>> and down the
>>>>>>>>> street hacking and slashing is pretty strenuous work,
>>>>>>>>> you know.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But in a more serious vein which is preferable? To get hit,
>>>>>>>>> unexpectedly, and fall down or to have to watch some
>>>>>>>>> maniac running
>>>>>>>>> down the street hacking and slashing and you know that
>>>>>>>>> you can't out
>>>>>>>>> run him?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And yes we have "mass shootings here. An Army Sergeant
>>>>>>>>> "went mad" and
>>>>>>>>> shot a number of people in Korat, Thailand's second (I
>>>>>>>>> think) largest
>>>>>>>>> city.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes you told us about him a little while ago. And if my
>>>>>>>> memory is correct, it may not be of course, we talked
>>>>>>>> about since this guy was an official Army sergeant, him
>>>>>>>> taking an official M16 military rifle off base was not
>>>>>>>> too crazy. Of course it was illegal since military guns
>>>>>>>> can only be taken off base for official military
>>>>>>>> operations. And him murdering people was not official
>>>>>>>> military protocol.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In fact I think I mentioned this some time ago to
>>>>>>>>> illustrate the
>>>>>>>>> difference in attitudes between here and there. Had this
>>>>>>>>> happened in
>>>>>>>>> the U.S. Frank would have been hollering and screaming
>>>>>>>>> about them
>>>>>>>>> there deadly army guns". Here people asked, "What was
>>>>>>>>> the matter with
>>>>>>>>> Him"?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In Thailand does this mass murdering by an Army sergeant
>>>>>>>> happen once or twice every single year for the past 20-30
>>>>>>>> years? If it happens once, as in your example, then
>>>>>>>> chalk it up to random events. But if it happens
>>>>>>>> regularly as in the USA, then maybe something needs to be
>>>>>>>> studied and a solution found.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope. Not to say that we don't have shootings. I'm not
>>>>>>> sure the strict
>>>>>>> U.S. definition of "mass shootings" but we do have cases
>>>>>>> of people
>>>>>>> shooting a whole family.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Russell's point is good: The numbers make a difference.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You've given ONE example of a mass shooting in Thailand. As
>>>>>> Andrew has noted, in the U.S. "That's Wednesday."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As somebody said years ago, "guns don't shoot people,
>>>>>>> people shoot
>>>>>>> people". So why blame guns?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We're blaming _policies_ that allow almost unfettered access
>>>>>> to rapid fire weapons optimized for combat. Yes, a person
>>>>>> must pull the trigger to shoot someone; but in other nations
>>>>>> with more rational policies, people don't shoot people
>>>>>> nearly as often.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And their daily lives are not negatively impacted by the
>>>>>> lack of rapid fire arms. That's because things like ARs have
>>>>>> no practical advantages for civilians.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Except you have no explanation for the staggeringly large numbers of
>>>>> legally owned weapons (more than humans in USA)...
>>>>
>>>> My explanation would be fashion driven by decades of subtle marketing
>>>> hype. Fear mongering like "You may have to defend your home," product
>>>> placement in countless NCIS TV shows, ludicrous fantasy posters of a
>>>> heavily muscled Trump brandishing one...
>>>>
>>>>> ... whose owners/operators
>>>>> are civil, responsible and not engaged in violence.
>>>>
>>>> I don't want to give bonus points to the gun culture by saying "Only a
>>>> small percentage murder people." That's way beyond the liberal "Gold
>>>> medal for participating!" given to every kid in class.
>>>>
>>>> "And Johnny gets a special trophy because he didn't assault his teacher
>>>> this year!"
>>>>
>>>> If we passed out a hand grenade to every household, only a minority
>>>> would explode them. But it would still be a really stupid idea.
>>>
>>> But you are just making things up. No gold medals for participating
>>> true... but no gold medals for not stealing cars, and no gold medal
>>> for not robbing banks, and on and on.
>>>
>>> I pointed out that bicycles had killed more people - some hundred
>>> times more, then the terrible "mass shootings" and you dismissed them
>>> although they were higher then the combat deaths in Vietnam which I
>>> remind you so terrified the youth of American that they fled the
>>> country.
>>>
>>> And you will leap into the fray, shouting "BUT bicycles have an
>>> advantage!" Yup, I agree, an advantage in killing people. Think of it,
>>> 100 times as many dead on bicycles as died in mass shootings.
>>>
>>> I think I'll let you keep those advantages. I don't want any part of
>>> them.
>>
>> Do you ride a bike? You have claimed to.
>>
>
> For about 25 years until my hip got so bad - I broke my pelvis (one of
> your fabled advantages of a bicycle I guess) and now I walk with a
> cane.
>
>> That indicates you judge the benefits of riding to be greater than the
>> detriments. And as I've indicated via many citations, you'd be right.
>>
>> So are you now arguing against your own behavior?? Really??
>
> Nope Frank. I rode a bicycle simply because I enjoyed riding it. Just
> as I ran in foot races because I enjoyed it. I can honestly say that I
> never sat down and added up the advantages and disadvantages of
> either. Or spending 20 years in the Air Force, or working in foreign
> countries. I just did as I damned pleased.
>
> And I believe that is why most people do things. Do you really think
> that people sit there counting advantages on their fingers - Eeny,
> meeny, miny, moe - Yes Siree Bob, that there one got all them
> advantages. Yup, I'll do that.
>

Or more clearly, people make decisions for their own reasons
or for no reason. Which is fine, it's their choice.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971