On 3/8/2022 10:02 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 21:31:53 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 3/8/2022 8:02 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 14:26:52 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/8/2022 12:37 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 3/8/2022 10:09 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/8/2022 4:23 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 22:31:47 -0800 (PST),
>>>>>>> "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
>>>>>>> <ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 8:23:53 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 15:47:26 -0800 (PST),
>>>>>>>>> "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>>>>>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 4:58:25 PM UTC-6, John B.
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 11:17:12 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/6/2022 10:52 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Mar 2022 19:21:13 -0800 (PST),
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unlike women, girls, whiskey, alcohol, or bicycles,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guns are used to kill people. ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yup... and knives are used in mass killings...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Numbers, please? Will you tell us the body count for
>>>>>>>>>>>> "mass killings" by
>>>>>>>>>>>> knife wielders in the U.S., compared to those
>>>>>>>>>>>> perpetrated by those
>>>>>>>>>>>> shooting guns?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Feel free to give your own definition of a "mass
>>>>>>>>>>>> killing," but one
>>>>>>>>>>>> accepted definition (U.S. Dept. of Justice) is
>>>>>>>>>>>> killing three or more
>>>>>>>>>>>> people in close proximity and within a short time
>>>>>>>>>>>> period.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Compare with these:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/mass-murder-without-guns/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/another-california-mass-murder-knife-rampage-kills-4-wounds-2/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regarding your second link, the knife, machete killer
>>>>>>>>>> of 4 people in southern California. He killed these
>>>>>>>>>> people at a half dozen or so different locations over
>>>>>>>>>> several hours. Not your typical mass killing to be
>>>>>>>>>> sure. He also drove a silver Mercedes. This occurred a
>>>>>>>>>> day or so after an El Paso Texas gunman killed 22 at a
>>>>>>>>>> WalMart. With guns. And a killer in Dayton Ohio shot to
>>>>>>>>>> death 9 people before police shot him to death.
>>>>>>>>> Well, why penalize a bloke that works hard. Running up
>>>>>>>>> and down the
>>>>>>>>> street hacking and slashing is pretty strenuous work,
>>>>>>>>> you know.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But in a more serious vein which is preferable? To get hit,
>>>>>>>>> unexpectedly, and fall down or to have to watch some
>>>>>>>>> maniac running
>>>>>>>>> down the street hacking and slashing and you know that
>>>>>>>>> you can't out
>>>>>>>>> run him?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And yes we have "mass shootings here. An Army Sergeant
>>>>>>>>> "went mad" and
>>>>>>>>> shot a number of people in Korat, Thailand's second (I
>>>>>>>>> think) largest
>>>>>>>>> city.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes you told us about him a little while ago.  And if my
>>>>>>>> memory is correct, it may not be of course, we talked
>>>>>>>> about since this guy was an official Army sergeant, him
>>>>>>>> taking an official M16 military rifle off base was not
>>>>>>>> too crazy.  Of course it was illegal since military guns
>>>>>>>> can only be taken off base for official military
>>>>>>>> operations.  And him murdering people was not official
>>>>>>>> military protocol.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In fact I think I mentioned this some time ago to
>>>>>>>>> illustrate the
>>>>>>>>> difference in attitudes between here and there. Had this
>>>>>>>>> happened in
>>>>>>>>> the U.S. Frank would have been hollering and screaming
>>>>>>>>> about them
>>>>>>>>> there deadly army guns". Here people asked, "What was
>>>>>>>>> the matter with
>>>>>>>>> Him"?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In Thailand does this mass murdering by an Army sergeant
>>>>>>>> happen once or twice every single year for the past 20-30
>>>>>>>> years?  If it happens once, as in your example, then
>>>>>>>> chalk it up to random events.  But if it happens
>>>>>>>> regularly as in the USA, then maybe something needs to be
>>>>>>>> studied and a solution found.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope. Not to say that we don't have shootings. I'm not
>>>>>>> sure the strict
>>>>>>> U.S. definition of "mass shootings" but we do have cases
>>>>>>> of people
>>>>>>> shooting a whole family.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Russell's point is good: The numbers make a difference.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You've given ONE example of a mass shooting in Thailand. As
>>>>>> Andrew has noted, in the U.S. "That's Wednesday."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As somebody said years ago, "guns don't shoot people,
>>>>>>> people shoot
>>>>>>> people". So why blame guns?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We're blaming _policies_ that allow almost unfettered access
>>>>>> to rapid fire weapons optimized for combat. Yes, a person
>>>>>> must pull the trigger to shoot someone; but in other nations
>>>>>> with more rational policies, people don't shoot people
>>>>>> nearly as often.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And their daily lives are not negatively impacted by the
>>>>>> lack of rapid fire arms. That's because things like ARs have
>>>>>> no practical advantages for civilians.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Except you have no explanation for the staggeringly large numbers of
>>>>> legally owned weapons (more than humans in USA)...
>>>>
>>>> My explanation would be fashion driven by decades of subtle marketing
>>>> hype. Fear mongering like "You may have to defend your home," product
>>>> placement in countless NCIS TV shows, ludicrous fantasy posters of a
>>>> heavily muscled Trump brandishing one...
>>>>
>>>>> ... whose owners/operators
>>>>> are civil, responsible and not engaged in violence.
>>>>
>>>> I don't want to give bonus points to the gun culture by saying "Only a
>>>> small percentage murder people." That's way beyond the liberal "Gold
>>>> medal for participating!" given to every kid in class.
>>>>
>>>> "And Johnny gets a special trophy because he didn't assault his teacher
>>>> this year!"
>>>>
>>>> If we passed out a hand grenade to every household, only a minority
>>>> would explode them. But it would still be a really stupid idea.
>>>
>>> But you are just making things up. No gold medals for participating
>>> true... but no gold medals for not stealing cars, and no gold medal
>>> for not robbing banks, and on and on.
>>>
>>> I pointed out that bicycles had killed more people - some hundred
>>> times more, then the terrible "mass shootings" and you dismissed them
>>> although they were higher then the combat deaths in Vietnam which I
>>> remind you so terrified the youth of American that they fled the
>>> country.
>>>
>>> And you will leap into the fray, shouting "BUT bicycles have an
>>> advantage!" Yup, I agree, an advantage in killing people. Think of it,
>>> 100 times as many dead on bicycles as died in mass shootings.
>>>
>>> I think I'll let you keep those advantages. I don't want any part of
>>> them.
>>
>> Do you ride a bike? You have claimed to.
>>
>
> For about 25 years until my hip got so bad - I broke my pelvis (one of
> your fabled advantages of a bicycle I guess) and now I walk with a
> cane.
>
>> That indicates you judge the benefits of riding to be greater than the
>> detriments. And as I've indicated via many citations, you'd be right.
>>
>> So are you now arguing against your own behavior?? Really??
>
> Nope Frank. I rode a bicycle simply because I enjoyed riding it. Just
> as I ran in foot races because I enjoyed it. I can honestly say that I
> never sat down and added up the advantages and disadvantages of
> either. Or spending 20 years in the Air Force, or working in foreign
> countries. I just did as I damned pleased.
>
> And I believe that is why most people do things. Do you really think
> that people sit there counting advantages on their fingers - Eeny,
> meeny, miny, moe - Yes Siree Bob, that there one got all them
> advantages. Yup, I'll do that.

Most people do not do that in any formal way, but they certainly TRY to
evaluate advantages and disadvantages informally or subconsciously!

What's rather unique is to do what you're doing: After behaving in a
certain way for years and years, to argue incessantly that it's stupid
for others to do the same.

Some reformed drug addicts do that. Very few others.

--
- Frank Krygowski