On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 4:12:27 PM UTC-4, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 9:23:09 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 5/14/2022 2:01 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 8:55:39 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > >> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 4:57:58 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>> On 5/13/2022 9:30 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > >>>> "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Did Sweden WIN by not locking down? Their GDP dropped similar to
> > >>>>>> their neighbors. So no economic win. They had a lot WORSE death rate
> > >>>>>> than their neighbors. I think deaths is kind of important. And their
> > >>>>>> sick/infections was similar to Finland and Norway so cost of people
> > >>>>>> going to the hospital was about the same. Denmark was an outlier
> > >>>>>> with sick people so throw them out.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> If the goal was to kill people with no economic benefits, then
> > >>>>>> Sweden won by not locking down and having no Covid
> > >>>>>> restrictions. Yeah Sweden. Kill em, kill em, kill em.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The world economy is all tied together these days. At work I'm
> > >>>> constantly reminded of things that are very hard to buy any more because
> > >>>> of troubles in China. When your trading partners' economies suffer,
> > >>>> yours will tend to suffer as well.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> But, it's really not all about the GDP. Consider the children and young
> > >>>> people that have missed educational and employment opportunities they
> > >>>> can never really make up -- they and their country will be somewhat
> > >>>> worse off for as long as they live.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Consider health care. My neighbor died of cancer during the covid
> > >>>> fiasco. Normally she would have been in hospital taking chemotherapy,
> > >>>> but that was not allowed. Her husband certainly believes that was
> > >>>> responsible for her death, and I suspect he's right. Cancer and high
> > >>>> blood pressure screening, psychiatric care, routine vaccinations like
> > >>>> measles, polio, and chickenpox all declined markedly during the covid
> > >>>> NPIs; far from being swamped, hospitals laid off workers and lost a lot
> > >>>> of money. If you believe medical care does any good, you can see that
> > >>>> this is a bad thing. Measles or chickenpox in a naive population would
> > >>>> make covid look like a walk in the park. Drug overdose deaths, the
> > >>>> panic du jour before covid, are also way up.
> > >>> How are we to judge those problems? One simple way is body counts, no?
> > >>> The increased deaths due to drug overdoses or delayed chemo are nowhere
> > >>> near the COVID body counts. Psych care, vaccinations etc. were delayed,
> > >>> not prohibited forever.
> > >>>
> > >>> And some, perhaps most, of the delayed procedures were voluntary choices
> > >>> made by individuals. I currently have one good friend in serious need of
> > >>> bypass surgery. He's delayed for many months, against his doctor's
> > >>> advice. Part (not all) of his reasoning is a fear of catching COVID in
> > >>> the hospital. His doctor and another physician who's a mutual friend say
> > >>> that's a negligible risk compared to his heart attack potential, but
> > >>> still he delays. He somehow ignores the risk he's incurring daily.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Then there is the normal enjoyment of life. How much is it worth to be
> > >>>> able to attend a wedding, a graduation, a funeral? How much to be able
> > >>>> to hold a new grandchild? Be with a dying parent? How about just
> > >>>> riding down to the local coffee house to have a coffee, or the one four
> > >>>> towns and a state over, if you feel like it? That's worth something to
> > >>>> me.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> How much do you suppose you would have to pay Mr. Krygowski to give up
> > >>>> religious services and playing music with his friends for a year? I'll
> > >>>> bet it's a check I don't want to write.
> > >>> You've lost that bet already. We stayed away from church during the
> > >>> worst of the pandemic. We had no music gigs, and our informal sessions
> > >>> were extremely sparse and held only when we could play outdoors,
> > >>> distanced from each other.
> > >>>> How about Mr. Muzi, to remain
> > >>>> celibate, assuming he's not allowed out of the house? That's what got
> > >>>> Neil Ferguson, he couldn't stay away from his mistress all the while he
> > >>>> was telling everyone in the UK they had to stay home. For that matter,
> > >>>> how much would you have to pay the median well-coiffed individual to
> > >>>> give up hair cuts for a year?
> > >>> A friend of mine has a term for those horrors. He calls them "First
> > >>> World Problems" as in, "This coffee isn't as quite as good as the $6 cup
> > >>> from my favorite artisan roaster. I want my money back!"
> > >>>
> > >>> Compare that with a Third World Problem: "How will we get any water today??"
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm deeply sorry about people who may have missed their pedicures, or
> > >>> whatever frivolities they consider necessary for life. But we enjoyed
> > >>> riding roads that were nearly empty of traffic, bicycling areas that
> > >>> were normally much less accessible. (One local golf course was closed,
> > >>> so we rode every golf cart track and while there spotted bird species we
> > >>> seldom see.) It was nice to see a greatly increased number of locals
> > >>> bicycling or walking around neighborhoods, and to chat with them. I
> > >>> pulled out vinyl albums I hadn't played for years and refreshed those
> > >>> memories. I finished a years-long sundial project and had an article
> > >>> about it published. I learned to play a new musical instrument. Oh, and
> > >>> we never once ran out of toilet paper.
> > >>>
> > >>> Perhaps you have more exacting standards for what constitutes a good
> > >>> life. But again, remember that low standards are the key to happiness.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> - Frank Krygowski
> > >> I often wonder what the people that got depressed because they couldn’t attend a music festival or visit a museum/theatre for a while would do when facing the problems the Ukrainers facing now.
> > >>
> > >> Lou
> > >
> > > In the middle of the largest war in history Benny Goodman and Glenn Miller and others were playing for the troops both in Europe and the Pacific and we have people saying that there can't be much war in the Ukraine because way back of the front lines they are having old Rock Groups playing for their entertainment and to help retain their morale. But I suppose when you're stupid nothing can help you. I heard that it is possible that Belarus is going to declare war against Russia. If the other ex-satellite border countries also chip in Russia will never again dare to attack any one of them for any reasons at all,
> > >
> > I'll take that bet.
> > For whatever amount you like, I'll bet that if Belarus
> > declares war formally it will be as a Russian ally, against
> > any country or alliance except Russia.
> >
> > Void at one year and if no declaration by then, the bet's off.
> >
> > OK with you?
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> The people have to kick out Lukashenko first. First thing first. It can take a while but it can’t last forever. One year seems to be too soon I’m afraid. Even Poetin has to go someday.
>
> Lou

One glaring obstacle seems to have escaped tom:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=russian+troops+staged+in+beylarus

To clarify: That's one glaring obstacle on just this issue, not to suggest he doesn't miss glaring obstacles for nearly every claim he posts.