On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 5:31:15 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/25/2022 6:16 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 12:47:02 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> On Tue, 24 May 2022 20:54:43 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Tuesday, May 24, 2022 at 8:43:55 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>>> On Tue, 24 May 2022 19:44:24 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 5/24/2022 6:29 PM, sms wrote:
> >>>>>> On 5/24/2022 3:43 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Tue, 24 May 2022 07:39:52 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 4:08:13 AM UTC-7,
> >>>>>>>> purushottam gaurav wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> The global electric vehicle charging infrastructure
> >>>>>>>>> market size reached USD 5.64 Billion in 2020 and is
> >>>>>>>>> expected to register a revenue CAGR of 38.6%. This will
> >>>>>>>>> keep growing as multiple countries are investing in EV
> >>>>>>>>> vehicle to reduce pollution and decrease dependency on
> >>>>>>>>> gas and fuels.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Read more@
> >>>>>>>>> https://www.emergenresearch.com/industry-report/electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-market
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 1. I have shown the numbers - electric vehicles save NO
> >>>>>>>> pollution. They just cixplace it to another area.
> >>>>>>>> Toyora's latest motor is actually 4% more efficient and
> >>>>>>>> creates less pollution than EV's.
> >>>>>>>> 2. Anyone that was interested in actual pollutionless
> >>>>>>>> vehicles would be driving and promoting hydrogen powered
> >>>>>>>> cars. Since hydrogen can be made pretty cheaply from
> >>>>>>>> seawater, and water is nearly everywhere and the results
> >>>>>>>> of hydrogen combustion is water and heat, Perhaps you'd
> >>>>>>>> like to explain why we should use either an EV or a gas
> >>>>>>>> powered more efficient Toyota high efficiency gas motor?
> >>>>>>>> 3. We really don't need stock brokers pushing a stock in
> >>>>>>>> order to make money off of a group that knows what you are.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> And "Tommy the Failure" tells us all about how "He
> >>>>>>> Showed".... A chap
> >>>>>>> that wasn't intelligent enough to be capable of completing
> >>>>>>> high
> >>>>>>> school?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Tommy, you are possible capable of "showing" how to put
> >>>>>>> your trousers
> >>>>>>> on "right side front" but nothing more complex.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Tom is wrong of courseâ„¢, on multiple counts.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The reality is that the production of hydrogen is highly
> >>>>>> dependent on the use of fossil fuel, either natural gas for
> >>>>>> the SMR process, or electricity for the costlier
> >>>>>> electrolysis of water process. Generating electricity to
> >>>>>> produce hydrogen, then using the hydrogen in a fuel cell to
> >>>>>> generate electricity for an electric motor, is less
> >>>>>> efficient than just charging batteries with electricity. The
> >>>>>> big advantage of hydrogen is that it's much faster to refuel
> >>>>>> a fuel cell vehicle, minutes instead of hours.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The other issue with hydrogen is the distribution network.
> >>>>>> The distribution network for electricity is already in
> >>>>>> place, plus it's relatively easy for a house in much of the
> >>>>>> country to generate all the electricity that they require
> >>>>>> from solar. In other areas wind, hydro, and solar do not
> >>>>>> produce GHGs.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Given the average daily mileage of drivers in the U.S., even
> >>>>>> recharging overnight with a Level 1 charger (120 volts)
> >>>>>> would give sufficient range for daily use. For long trips
> >>>>>> there is a need for charging infrastructure. The problem
> >>>>>> that charging station companies are having is that the
> >>>>>> demand for public charging stations to be available is very
> >>>>>> high, because of range anxiety, but because the cost per KWH
> >>>>>> is high at those stations most EV owners eschew the paid
> >>>>>> public charging stations and charge at home instead.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> According to an MIT study, electric vehicle production
> >>>>>> generates greater emissions than the production of internal
> >>>>>> combustion or diesel powered cars, but this is offset by the
> >>>>>> lower emissions per mile over the life of the car, even if
> >>>>>> fossil fuel is used to generate the electricity.
> >>>>>> <https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/lifetime-emissions-of-evs-are-lower-than-gasoline-cars-experts-say.html>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There's one more problem in that hydrogen is maddeningly
> >>>>> difficult to contain. Customers who work with it report that
> >>>>> everything leaks and the cost (money & time) of storing it
> >>>>> are way out of scale to other compressed gases.
> >>>> Years and years ago Mercedes experimented with building hydrogen
> >>>> fueled cars and abandoned the project as impractical largely because
> >>>> the damned stuff leaks so badly.
> >>>>
> >>>> More recently they tried again and I believe have given up a second
> >>>> time
> >>>> --
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>>
> >>>> John B.
> >>>
> >>> Not to give any credit whatsoever to Tommy, but I have seen articles about some companies using hydrogen powered vehicles. Delivery fleets or vehicles used at mining operations or on company property. So hydrogen is possible to use as a vehicle fuel source. In certain controlled enterprises. But likely not practical on a wide scale use.
> >> Not to start an argument but can you post a reference to company(s)
> >> using hydrogen? I'm sincerely interested as it would seem to me that
> >> procuring, storing and using hydrogen would be a gigantic "pain in the
> >> arse" and I wonder about why someone would bother.
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> John B.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_vehicle#Fork_trucks
> > https://electrek.co/2022/05/06/the-worlds-largest-hydrogen-battery-hybrid-mine-haul-truck-starts-work/
> > The Wikipedia mentions hydrogen used in many different vehicles.
> >
> > I thought I had read about hydrogen mining trucks a long time ago. But it seems to be very very very recent. I am very worried my mind is becoming like Tommy's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> You probably did read it long ago. Hydrogen fuel has been
> 'the next thing' since at least the 1960s but implementation
> is extremely difficult.

Most people don't have the chemistry to understand hydrogen combustion. Energy fhrough chemical means requires mass and hydrogen has very little mass and hence is a bad idea for internal combustion engines. That is why it has always been the next great thing that never was. Frank could have told you that if he had any education at all but plainly he hasn't or whatever he did have disappeared long ago during some boring lecture he was giving to put his students to sleep.

However, hydrogen is a good means of storing energy that can be converted to electicity via fuel cells and that makes a light means of carrying a superior battery that can be replentished at the nearest "gas" station which can use power line electricity to convery water into O and H2. Because of the small but present danger, a perfect battery or super capacitor might be a better means but at the moment I haven't actually seen these batteries and they are selling stock in several companies that say they have the perfect battery but haven't actually demonstrated them.