The global electric vehicle charging infrastructure market size reached USD 5.64 Billion in 2020 and is expected to register a revenue CAGR of 38.6%. This will keep growing as multiple countries are investing in EV vehicle to reduce pollution and decrease dependency on gas and fuels.

Read more@ https://www.emergenresearch.com/industry-report/electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-market

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 4:08:13 AM UTC-7, purushottam gaurav wrote:
> The global electric vehicle charging infrastructure market size reached USD 5.64 Billion in 2020 and is expected to register a revenue CAGR of 38.6%.. This will keep growing as multiple countries are investing in EV vehicle to reduce pollution and decrease dependency on gas and fuels.
>
> Read more@ https://www.emergenresearch.com/industry-report/electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-market
1. I have shown the numbers - electric vehicles save NO pollution. They just cixplace it to another area. Toyora's latest motor is actually 4% more efficient and creates less pollution than EV's.
2. Anyone that was interested in actual pollutionless vehicles would be driving and promoting hydrogen powered cars. Since hydrogen can be made pretty cheaply from seawater, and water is nearly everywhere and the results of hydrogen combustion is water and heat, Perhaps you'd like to explain why we should use either an EV or a gas powered more efficient Toyota high efficiency gas motor?
3. We really don't need stock brokers pushing a stock in order to make money off of a group that knows what you are.

On Tue, 24 May 2022 07:39:52 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 4:08:13 AM UTC-7, purushottam gaurav wrote:
>> The global electric vehicle charging infrastructure market size reached USD 5.64 Billion in 2020 and is expected to register a revenue CAGR of 38.6%. This will keep growing as multiple countries are investing in EV vehicle to reduce pollution and decrease dependency on gas and fuels.
>>
>> Read more@ https://www.emergenresearch.com/industry-report/electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-market
>1. I have shown the numbers - electric vehicles save NO pollution. They just cixplace it to another area. Toyora's latest motor is actually 4% more efficient and creates less pollution than EV's.
>2. Anyone that was interested in actual pollutionless vehicles would be driving and promoting hydrogen powered cars. Since hydrogen can be made pretty cheaply from seawater, and water is nearly everywhere and the results of hydrogen combustion is water and heat, Perhaps you'd like to explain why we should use either an EV or a gas powered more efficient Toyota high efficiency gas motor?
>3. We really don't need stock brokers pushing a stock in order to make money off of a group that knows what you are.

And "Tommy the Failure" tells us all about how "He Showed".... A chap
that wasn't intelligent enough to be capable of completing high
school?

Tommy, you are possible capable of "showing" how to put your trousers
on "right side front" but nothing more complex.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 5/24/2022 3:43 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 24 May 2022 07:39:52 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 4:08:13 AM UTC-7, purushottam gaurav wrote:
>>> The global electric vehicle charging infrastructure market size reached USD 5.64 Billion in 2020 and is expected to register a revenue CAGR of 38.6%. This will keep growing as multiple countries are investing in EV vehicle to reduce pollution and decrease dependency on gas and fuels.
>>>
>>> Read more@ https://www.emergenresearch.com/industry-report/electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-market
>> 1. I have shown the numbers - electric vehicles save NO pollution. They just cixplace it to another area. Toyora's latest motor is actually 4% more efficient and creates less pollution than EV's.
>> 2. Anyone that was interested in actual pollutionless vehicles would be driving and promoting hydrogen powered cars. Since hydrogen can be made pretty cheaply from seawater, and water is nearly everywhere and the results of hydrogen combustion is water and heat, Perhaps you'd like to explain why we should use either an EV or a gas powered more efficient Toyota high efficiency gas motor?
>> 3. We really don't need stock brokers pushing a stock in order to make money off of a group that knows what you are.
>
> And "Tommy the Failure" tells us all about how "He Showed".... A chap
> that wasn't intelligent enough to be capable of completing high
> school?
>
> Tommy, you are possible capable of "showing" how to put your trousers
> on "right side front" but nothing more complex.

Tom is wrong of course™, on multiple counts.

The reality is that the production of hydrogen is highly dependent on
the use of fossil fuel, either natural gas for the SMR process, or
electricity for the costlier electrolysis of water process. Generating
electricity to produce hydrogen, then using the hydrogen in a fuel cell
to generate electricity for an electric motor, is less efficient than
just charging batteries with electricity. The big advantage of hydrogen
is that it's much faster to refuel a fuel cell vehicle, minutes instead
of hours.

The other issue with hydrogen is the distribution network. The
distribution network for electricity is already in place, plus it's
relatively easy for a house in much of the country to generate all the
electricity that they require from solar. In other areas wind, hydro,
and solar do not produce GHGs.

Given the average daily mileage of drivers in the U.S., even recharging
overnight with a Level 1 charger (120 volts) would give sufficient range
for daily use. For long trips there is a need for charging
infrastructure. The problem that charging station companies are having
is that the demand for public charging stations to be available is very
high, because of range anxiety, but because the cost per KWH is high at
those stations most EV owners eschew the paid public charging stations
and charge at home instead.

According to an MIT study, electric vehicle production generates greater
emissions than the production of internal combustion or diesel powered
cars, but this is offset by the lower emissions per mile over the life
of the car, even if fossil fuel is used to generate the electricity.
<https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/lifetime-emissions-of-evs-are-lower-than-gasoline-cars-experts-say.html>

On 5/24/2022 6:29 PM, sms wrote:
> On 5/24/2022 3:43 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 May 2022 07:39:52 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 4:08:13 AM UTC-7,
>>> purushottam gaurav wrote:
>>>> The global electric vehicle charging infrastructure
>>>> market size reached USD 5.64 Billion in 2020 and is
>>>> expected to register a revenue CAGR of 38.6%. This will
>>>> keep growing as multiple countries are investing in EV
>>>> vehicle to reduce pollution and decrease dependency on
>>>> gas and fuels.
>>>>
>>>> Read more@
>>>> https://www.emergenresearch.com/industry-report/electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-market
>>>>
>>> 1. I have shown the numbers - electric vehicles save NO
>>> pollution. They just cixplace it to another area.
>>> Toyora's latest motor is actually 4% more efficient and
>>> creates less pollution than EV's.
>>> 2. Anyone that was interested in actual pollutionless
>>> vehicles would be driving and promoting hydrogen powered
>>> cars. Since hydrogen can be made pretty cheaply from
>>> seawater, and water is nearly everywhere and the results
>>> of hydrogen combustion is water and heat, Perhaps you'd
>>> like to explain why we should use either an EV or a gas
>>> powered more efficient Toyota high efficiency gas motor?
>>> 3. We really don't need stock brokers pushing a stock in
>>> order to make money off of a group that knows what you are.
>>
>> And "Tommy the Failure" tells us all about how "He
>> Showed".... A chap
>> that wasn't intelligent enough to be capable of completing
>> high
>> school?
>>
>> Tommy, you are possible capable of "showing" how to put
>> your trousers
>> on "right side front" but nothing more complex.
>
> Tom is wrong of courseâ„¢, on multiple counts.
>
> The reality is that the production of hydrogen is highly
> dependent on the use of fossil fuel, either natural gas for
> the SMR process, or electricity for the costlier
> electrolysis of water process. Generating electricity to
> produce hydrogen, then using the hydrogen in a fuel cell to
> generate electricity for an electric motor, is less
> efficient than just charging batteries with electricity. The
> big advantage of hydrogen is that it's much faster to refuel
> a fuel cell vehicle, minutes instead of hours.
>
> The other issue with hydrogen is the distribution network.
> The distribution network for electricity is already in
> place, plus it's relatively easy for a house in much of the
> country to generate all the electricity that they require
> from solar. In other areas wind, hydro, and solar do not
> produce GHGs.
>
> Given the average daily mileage of drivers in the U.S., even
> recharging overnight with a Level 1 charger (120 volts)
> would give sufficient range for daily use. For long trips
> there is a need for charging infrastructure. The problem
> that charging station companies are having is that the
> demand for public charging stations to be available is very
> high, because of range anxiety, but because the cost per KWH
> is high at those stations most EV owners eschew the paid
> public charging stations and charge at home instead.
>
> According to an MIT study, electric vehicle production
> generates greater emissions than the production of internal
> combustion or diesel powered cars, but this is offset by the
> lower emissions per mile over the life of the car, even if
> fossil fuel is used to generate the electricity.
> <https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/lifetime-emissions-of-evs-are-lower-than-gasoline-cars-experts-say.html>
>

There's one more problem in that hydrogen is maddeningly
difficult to contain. Customers who work with it report that
everything leaks and the cost (money & time) of storing it
are way out of scale to other compressed gases.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 24 May 2022 19:44:24 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 5/24/2022 6:29 PM, sms wrote:
>> On 5/24/2022 3:43 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Tue, 24 May 2022 07:39:52 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 4:08:13 AM UTC-7,
>>>> purushottam gaurav wrote:
>>>>> The global electric vehicle charging infrastructure
>>>>> market size reached USD 5.64 Billion in 2020 and is
>>>>> expected to register a revenue CAGR of 38.6%. This will
>>>>> keep growing as multiple countries are investing in EV
>>>>> vehicle to reduce pollution and decrease dependency on
>>>>> gas and fuels.
>>>>>
>>>>> Read more@
>>>>> https://www.emergenresearch.com/industry-report/electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-market
>>>>>
>>>> 1. I have shown the numbers - electric vehicles save NO
>>>> pollution. They just cixplace it to another area.
>>>> Toyora's latest motor is actually 4% more efficient and
>>>> creates less pollution than EV's.
>>>> 2. Anyone that was interested in actual pollutionless
>>>> vehicles would be driving and promoting hydrogen powered
>>>> cars. Since hydrogen can be made pretty cheaply from
>>>> seawater, and water is nearly everywhere and the results
>>>> of hydrogen combustion is water and heat, Perhaps you'd
>>>> like to explain why we should use either an EV or a gas
>>>> powered more efficient Toyota high efficiency gas motor?
>>>> 3. We really don't need stock brokers pushing a stock in
>>>> order to make money off of a group that knows what you are.
>>>
>>> And "Tommy the Failure" tells us all about how "He
>>> Showed".... A chap
>>> that wasn't intelligent enough to be capable of completing
>>> high
>>> school?
>>>
>>> Tommy, you are possible capable of "showing" how to put
>>> your trousers
>>> on "right side front" but nothing more complex.
>>
>> Tom is wrong of course™, on multiple counts.
>>
>> The reality is that the production of hydrogen is highly
>> dependent on the use of fossil fuel, either natural gas for
>> the SMR process, or electricity for the costlier
>> electrolysis of water process. Generating electricity to
>> produce hydrogen, then using the hydrogen in a fuel cell to
>> generate electricity for an electric motor, is less
>> efficient than just charging batteries with electricity. The
>> big advantage of hydrogen is that it's much faster to refuel
>> a fuel cell vehicle, minutes instead of hours.
>>
>> The other issue with hydrogen is the distribution network.
>> The distribution network for electricity is already in
>> place, plus it's relatively easy for a house in much of the
>> country to generate all the electricity that they require
>> from solar. In other areas wind, hydro, and solar do not
>> produce GHGs.
>>
>> Given the average daily mileage of drivers in the U.S., even
>> recharging overnight with a Level 1 charger (120 volts)
>> would give sufficient range for daily use. For long trips
>> there is a need for charging infrastructure. The problem
>> that charging station companies are having is that the
>> demand for public charging stations to be available is very
>> high, because of range anxiety, but because the cost per KWH
>> is high at those stations most EV owners eschew the paid
>> public charging stations and charge at home instead.
>>
>> According to an MIT study, electric vehicle production
>> generates greater emissions than the production of internal
>> combustion or diesel powered cars, but this is offset by the
>> lower emissions per mile over the life of the car, even if
>> fossil fuel is used to generate the electricity.
>> <https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/lifetime-emissions-of-evs-are-lower-than-gasoline-cars-experts-say.html>
>>
>
>There's one more problem in that hydrogen is maddeningly
>difficult to contain. Customers who work with it report that
>everything leaks and the cost (money & time) of storing it
>are way out of scale to other compressed gases.

Years and years ago Mercedes experimented with building hydrogen
fueled cars and abandoned the project as impractical largely because
the damned stuff leaks so badly.

More recently they tried again and I believe have given up a second
time
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, May 24, 2022 at 8:43:55 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 24 May 2022 19:44:24 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> >On 5/24/2022 6:29 PM, sms wrote:
> >> On 5/24/2022 3:43 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 24 May 2022 07:39:52 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 4:08:13 AM UTC-7,
> >>>> purushottam gaurav wrote:
> >>>>> The global electric vehicle charging infrastructure
> >>>>> market size reached USD 5.64 Billion in 2020 and is
> >>>>> expected to register a revenue CAGR of 38.6%. This will
> >>>>> keep growing as multiple countries are investing in EV
> >>>>> vehicle to reduce pollution and decrease dependency on
> >>>>> gas and fuels.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Read more@
> >>>>> https://www.emergenresearch.com/industry-report/electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-market
> >>>>>
> >>>> 1. I have shown the numbers - electric vehicles save NO
> >>>> pollution. They just cixplace it to another area.
> >>>> Toyora's latest motor is actually 4% more efficient and
> >>>> creates less pollution than EV's.
> >>>> 2. Anyone that was interested in actual pollutionless
> >>>> vehicles would be driving and promoting hydrogen powered
> >>>> cars. Since hydrogen can be made pretty cheaply from
> >>>> seawater, and water is nearly everywhere and the results
> >>>> of hydrogen combustion is water and heat, Perhaps you'd
> >>>> like to explain why we should use either an EV or a gas
> >>>> powered more efficient Toyota high efficiency gas motor?
> >>>> 3. We really don't need stock brokers pushing a stock in
> >>>> order to make money off of a group that knows what you are.
> >>>
> >>> And "Tommy the Failure" tells us all about how "He
> >>> Showed".... A chap
> >>> that wasn't intelligent enough to be capable of completing
> >>> high
> >>> school?
> >>>
> >>> Tommy, you are possible capable of "showing" how to put
> >>> your trousers
> >>> on "right side front" but nothing more complex.
> >>
> >> Tom is wrong of course™, on multiple counts.
> >>
> >> The reality is that the production of hydrogen is highly
> >> dependent on the use of fossil fuel, either natural gas for
> >> the SMR process, or electricity for the costlier
> >> electrolysis of water process. Generating electricity to
> >> produce hydrogen, then using the hydrogen in a fuel cell to
> >> generate electricity for an electric motor, is less
> >> efficient than just charging batteries with electricity. The
> >> big advantage of hydrogen is that it's much faster to refuel
> >> a fuel cell vehicle, minutes instead of hours.
> >>
> >> The other issue with hydrogen is the distribution network.
> >> The distribution network for electricity is already in
> >> place, plus it's relatively easy for a house in much of the
> >> country to generate all the electricity that they require
> >> from solar. In other areas wind, hydro, and solar do not
> >> produce GHGs.
> >>
> >> Given the average daily mileage of drivers in the U.S., even
> >> recharging overnight with a Level 1 charger (120 volts)
> >> would give sufficient range for daily use. For long trips
> >> there is a need for charging infrastructure. The problem
> >> that charging station companies are having is that the
> >> demand for public charging stations to be available is very
> >> high, because of range anxiety, but because the cost per KWH
> >> is high at those stations most EV owners eschew the paid
> >> public charging stations and charge at home instead.
> >>
> >> According to an MIT study, electric vehicle production
> >> generates greater emissions than the production of internal
> >> combustion or diesel powered cars, but this is offset by the
> >> lower emissions per mile over the life of the car, even if
> >> fossil fuel is used to generate the electricity.
> >> <https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/lifetime-emissions-of-evs-are-lower-than-gasoline-cars-experts-say.html>
> >>
> >
> >There's one more problem in that hydrogen is maddeningly
> >difficult to contain. Customers who work with it report that
> >everything leaks and the cost (money & time) of storing it
> >are way out of scale to other compressed gases.
> Years and years ago Mercedes experimented with building hydrogen
> fueled cars and abandoned the project as impractical largely because
> the damned stuff leaks so badly.
>
> More recently they tried again and I believe have given up a second
> time
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

Not to give any credit whatsoever to Tommy, but I have seen articles about some companies using hydrogen powered vehicles. Delivery fleets or vehicles used at mining operations or on company property. So hydrogen is possible to use as a vehicle fuel source. In certain controlled enterprises. But likely not practical on a wide scale use.

On Tue, 24 May 2022 20:54:43 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, May 24, 2022 at 8:43:55 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 May 2022 19:44:24 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>> >On 5/24/2022 6:29 PM, sms wrote:
>> >> On 5/24/2022 3:43 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >>> On Tue, 24 May 2022 07:39:52 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 4:08:13 AM UTC-7,
>> >>>> purushottam gaurav wrote:
>> >>>>> The global electric vehicle charging infrastructure
>> >>>>> market size reached USD 5.64 Billion in 2020 and is
>> >>>>> expected to register a revenue CAGR of 38.6%. This will
>> >>>>> keep growing as multiple countries are investing in EV
>> >>>>> vehicle to reduce pollution and decrease dependency on
>> >>>>> gas and fuels.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Read more@
>> >>>>> https://www.emergenresearch.com/industry-report/electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-market
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> 1. I have shown the numbers - electric vehicles save NO
>> >>>> pollution. They just cixplace it to another area.
>> >>>> Toyora's latest motor is actually 4% more efficient and
>> >>>> creates less pollution than EV's.
>> >>>> 2. Anyone that was interested in actual pollutionless
>> >>>> vehicles would be driving and promoting hydrogen powered
>> >>>> cars. Since hydrogen can be made pretty cheaply from
>> >>>> seawater, and water is nearly everywhere and the results
>> >>>> of hydrogen combustion is water and heat, Perhaps you'd
>> >>>> like to explain why we should use either an EV or a gas
>> >>>> powered more efficient Toyota high efficiency gas motor?
>> >>>> 3. We really don't need stock brokers pushing a stock in
>> >>>> order to make money off of a group that knows what you are.
>> >>>
>> >>> And "Tommy the Failure" tells us all about how "He
>> >>> Showed".... A chap
>> >>> that wasn't intelligent enough to be capable of completing
>> >>> high
>> >>> school?
>> >>>
>> >>> Tommy, you are possible capable of "showing" how to put
>> >>> your trousers
>> >>> on "right side front" but nothing more complex.
>> >>
>> >> Tom is wrong of course™, on multiple counts.
>> >>
>> >> The reality is that the production of hydrogen is highly
>> >> dependent on the use of fossil fuel, either natural gas for
>> >> the SMR process, or electricity for the costlier
>> >> electrolysis of water process. Generating electricity to
>> >> produce hydrogen, then using the hydrogen in a fuel cell to
>> >> generate electricity for an electric motor, is less
>> >> efficient than just charging batteries with electricity. The
>> >> big advantage of hydrogen is that it's much faster to refuel
>> >> a fuel cell vehicle, minutes instead of hours.
>> >>
>> >> The other issue with hydrogen is the distribution network.
>> >> The distribution network for electricity is already in
>> >> place, plus it's relatively easy for a house in much of the
>> >> country to generate all the electricity that they require
>> >> from solar. In other areas wind, hydro, and solar do not
>> >> produce GHGs.
>> >>
>> >> Given the average daily mileage of drivers in the U.S., even
>> >> recharging overnight with a Level 1 charger (120 volts)
>> >> would give sufficient range for daily use. For long trips
>> >> there is a need for charging infrastructure. The problem
>> >> that charging station companies are having is that the
>> >> demand for public charging stations to be available is very
>> >> high, because of range anxiety, but because the cost per KWH
>> >> is high at those stations most EV owners eschew the paid
>> >> public charging stations and charge at home instead.
>> >>
>> >> According to an MIT study, electric vehicle production
>> >> generates greater emissions than the production of internal
>> >> combustion or diesel powered cars, but this is offset by the
>> >> lower emissions per mile over the life of the car, even if
>> >> fossil fuel is used to generate the electricity.
>> >> <https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/lifetime-emissions-of-evs-are-lower-than-gasoline-cars-experts-say.html>
>> >>
>> >
>> >There's one more problem in that hydrogen is maddeningly
>> >difficult to contain. Customers who work with it report that
>> >everything leaks and the cost (money & time) of storing it
>> >are way out of scale to other compressed gases.
>> Years and years ago Mercedes experimented with building hydrogen
>> fueled cars and abandoned the project as impractical largely because
>> the damned stuff leaks so badly.
>>
>> More recently they tried again and I believe have given up a second
>> time
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
>
>Not to give any credit whatsoever to Tommy, but I have seen articles about some companies using hydrogen powered vehicles. Delivery fleets or vehicles used at mining operations or on company property. So hydrogen is possible to use as a vehicle fuel source. In certain controlled enterprises. But likely not practical on a wide scale use.

Not to start an argument but can you post a reference to company(s)
using hydrogen? I'm sincerely interested as it would seem to me that
procuring, storing and using hydrogen would be a gigantic "pain in the
arse" and I wonder about why someone would bother.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 5/25/2022 12:46 AM, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 24 May 2022 20:54:43 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
> <ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, May 24, 2022 at 8:43:55 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>> On Tue, 24 May 2022 19:44:24 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/24/2022 6:29 PM, sms wrote:
>>>>> On 5/24/2022 3:43 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 24 May 2022 07:39:52 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 4:08:13 AM UTC-7,
>>>>>>> purushottam gaurav wrote:
>>>>>>>> The global electric vehicle charging infrastructure
>>>>>>>> market size reached USD 5.64 Billion in 2020 and is
>>>>>>>> expected to register a revenue CAGR of 38.6%. This will
>>>>>>>> keep growing as multiple countries are investing in EV
>>>>>>>> vehicle to reduce pollution and decrease dependency on
>>>>>>>> gas and fuels.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Read more@
>>>>>>>> https://www.emergenresearch.com/industry-report/electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-market
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. I have shown the numbers - electric vehicles save NO
>>>>>>> pollution. They just cixplace it to another area.
>>>>>>> Toyora's latest motor is actually 4% more efficient and
>>>>>>> creates less pollution than EV's.
>>>>>>> 2. Anyone that was interested in actual pollutionless
>>>>>>> vehicles would be driving and promoting hydrogen powered
>>>>>>> cars. Since hydrogen can be made pretty cheaply from
>>>>>>> seawater, and water is nearly everywhere and the results
>>>>>>> of hydrogen combustion is water and heat, Perhaps you'd
>>>>>>> like to explain why we should use either an EV or a gas
>>>>>>> powered more efficient Toyota high efficiency gas motor?
>>>>>>> 3. We really don't need stock brokers pushing a stock in
>>>>>>> order to make money off of a group that knows what you are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And "Tommy the Failure" tells us all about how "He
>>>>>> Showed".... A chap
>>>>>> that wasn't intelligent enough to be capable of completing
>>>>>> high
>>>>>> school?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tommy, you are possible capable of "showing" how to put
>>>>>> your trousers
>>>>>> on "right side front" but nothing more complex.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom is wrong of course™, on multiple counts.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reality is that the production of hydrogen is highly
>>>>> dependent on the use of fossil fuel, either natural gas for
>>>>> the SMR process, or electricity for the costlier
>>>>> electrolysis of water process. Generating electricity to
>>>>> produce hydrogen, then using the hydrogen in a fuel cell to
>>>>> generate electricity for an electric motor, is less
>>>>> efficient than just charging batteries with electricity. The
>>>>> big advantage of hydrogen is that it's much faster to refuel
>>>>> a fuel cell vehicle, minutes instead of hours.
>>>>>
>>>>> The other issue with hydrogen is the distribution network.
>>>>> The distribution network for electricity is already in
>>>>> place, plus it's relatively easy for a house in much of the
>>>>> country to generate all the electricity that they require
>>>>> from solar. In other areas wind, hydro, and solar do not
>>>>> produce GHGs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Given the average daily mileage of drivers in the U.S., even
>>>>> recharging overnight with a Level 1 charger (120 volts)
>>>>> would give sufficient range for daily use. For long trips
>>>>> there is a need for charging infrastructure. The problem
>>>>> that charging station companies are having is that the
>>>>> demand for public charging stations to be available is very
>>>>> high, because of range anxiety, but because the cost per KWH
>>>>> is high at those stations most EV owners eschew the paid
>>>>> public charging stations and charge at home instead.
>>>>>
>>>>> According to an MIT study, electric vehicle production
>>>>> generates greater emissions than the production of internal
>>>>> combustion or diesel powered cars, but this is offset by the
>>>>> lower emissions per mile over the life of the car, even if
>>>>> fossil fuel is used to generate the electricity.
>>>>> <https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/lifetime-emissions-of-evs-are-lower-than-gasoline-cars-experts-say.html>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There's one more problem in that hydrogen is maddeningly
>>>> difficult to contain. Customers who work with it report that
>>>> everything leaks and the cost (money & time) of storing it
>>>> are way out of scale to other compressed gases.
>>> Years and years ago Mercedes experimented with building hydrogen
>>> fueled cars and abandoned the project as impractical largely because
>>> the damned stuff leaks so badly.
>>>
>>> More recently they tried again and I believe have given up a second
>>> time
>>> --
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> John B.
>>
>> Not to give any credit whatsoever to Tommy, but I have seen articles about some companies using hydrogen powered vehicles. Delivery fleets or vehicles used at mining operations or on company property. So hydrogen is possible to use as a vehicle fuel source. In certain controlled enterprises. But likely not practical on a wide scale use.
>
> Not to start an argument but can you post a reference to company(s)
> using hydrogen? I'm sincerely interested as it would seem to me that
> procuring, storing and using hydrogen would be a gigantic "pain in the
> arse" and I wonder about why someone would bother.
>

Many barriers to hydrogen. Add to those mentioned the
containment weight to fuel weight penalty:

https://advancedfleetmanagementconsulting.com/eng/2021/01/10/hydrogen-9/

Yikes! 36kg tank weight per 1kg fuel. That's severe.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 5/24/2022 6:43 PM, John B. wrote:

<snip>

> Years and years ago Mercedes experimented with building hydrogen
> fueled cars and abandoned the project as impractical largely because
> the damned stuff leaks so badly.
>
> More recently they tried again and I believe have given up a second
> time

Toyota has one hydrogen model. Surprisingly, Toyota which is the world's
largest or second largest automaker (it goes back and forth with VW) has
only one EV available the BZ4X, if it's really available at all:
<https://www.toyota.com/bz4x/> with a mediocre range.

On Tuesday, May 24, 2022 at 5:44:24 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/24/2022 6:29 PM, sms wrote:
> > On 5/24/2022 3:43 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> On Tue, 24 May 2022 07:39:52 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 4:08:13 AM UTC-7,
> >>> purushottam gaurav wrote:
> >>>> The global electric vehicle charging infrastructure
> >>>> market size reached USD 5.64 Billion in 2020 and is
> >>>> expected to register a revenue CAGR of 38.6%. This will
> >>>> keep growing as multiple countries are investing in EV
> >>>> vehicle to reduce pollution and decrease dependency on
> >>>> gas and fuels.
> >>>>
> >>>> Read more@
> >>>> https://www.emergenresearch.com/industry-report/electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-market
> >>>>
> >>> 1. I have shown the numbers - electric vehicles save NO
> >>> pollution. They just cixplace it to another area.
> >>> Toyora's latest motor is actually 4% more efficient and
> >>> creates less pollution than EV's.
> >>> 2. Anyone that was interested in actual pollutionless
> >>> vehicles would be driving and promoting hydrogen powered
> >>> cars. Since hydrogen can be made pretty cheaply from
> >>> seawater, and water is nearly everywhere and the results
> >>> of hydrogen combustion is water and heat, Perhaps you'd
> >>> like to explain why we should use either an EV or a gas
> >>> powered more efficient Toyota high efficiency gas motor?
> >>> 3. We really don't need stock brokers pushing a stock in
> >>> order to make money off of a group that knows what you are.
> >>
> >> And "Tommy the Failure" tells us all about how "He
> >> Showed".... A chap
> >> that wasn't intelligent enough to be capable of completing
> >> high
> >> school?
> >>
> >> Tommy, you are possible capable of "showing" how to put
> >> your trousers
> >> on "right side front" but nothing more complex.
> >
> > Tom is wrong of courseâ„¢, on multiple counts.
> >
> > The reality is that the production of hydrogen is highly
> > dependent on the use of fossil fuel, either natural gas for
> > the SMR process, or electricity for the costlier
> > electrolysis of water process. Generating electricity to
> > produce hydrogen, then using the hydrogen in a fuel cell to
> > generate electricity for an electric motor, is less
> > efficient than just charging batteries with electricity. The
> > big advantage of hydrogen is that it's much faster to refuel
> > a fuel cell vehicle, minutes instead of hours.
> >
> > The other issue with hydrogen is the distribution network.
> > The distribution network for electricity is already in
> > place, plus it's relatively easy for a house in much of the
> > country to generate all the electricity that they require
> > from solar. In other areas wind, hydro, and solar do not
> > produce GHGs.
> >
> > Given the average daily mileage of drivers in the U.S., even
> > recharging overnight with a Level 1 charger (120 volts)
> > would give sufficient range for daily use. For long trips
> > there is a need for charging infrastructure. The problem
> > that charging station companies are having is that the
> > demand for public charging stations to be available is very
> > high, because of range anxiety, but because the cost per KWH
> > is high at those stations most EV owners eschew the paid
> > public charging stations and charge at home instead.
> >
> > According to an MIT study, electric vehicle production
> > generates greater emissions than the production of internal
> > combustion or diesel powered cars, but this is offset by the
> > lower emissions per mile over the life of the car, even if
> > fossil fuel is used to generate the electricity.
> > <https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/lifetime-emissions-of-evs-are-lower-than-gasoline-cars-experts-say.html>
> >
> There's one more problem in that hydrogen is maddeningly
> difficult to contain. Customers who work with it report that
> everything leaks and the cost (money & time) of storing it
> are way out of scale to other compressed gases.

Andrew - electricity is FAR more maddeningly difficuolt to store safely than hydrogen. If you have a leak it goes nearly straight up even in heavy winds. Jointless containers are now EASILY made and testing them for leaks is fantastically easy. You do not run an ICE on hydrogen, you run a fuel cell on hydrogen and Tesla's engines are now the way to go. Fuel to go 400 miles of more will ALWAYS be impossible on a battery car because the weight and size goes up faster than the mileage gains. But they are far easier with a hydrogen fuel cell car which would be smaller and lighter than a present Tesla sedan.

Northern California has seen what trying to contain electricity causes. Is hydrogen perfectly safe? Don't be led by the nose by Frank's theory that if it isn't perfect it isn't any good at all. I could go on all day about the sick six and their profound misunderstanding of the world around them but that would benefit no one. Frank is not a real engineer and all he has to pass on is garbage.

On 5/25/2022 12:01 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> Fuel to go 400 miles of more will ALWAYS be impossible on a battery car because the weight and size goes up faster than the mileage gains.

https://electrek.co/2022/01/05/tesla-model-s-752-miles-range-one-energy-dense-battery-pack/

https://www.tesla.com/blog/model-s-long-range-plus-building-first-400-mile-electric-vehicle
"Starting today, all North American Model S Long Range Plus vehicles
have an official EPA-rated range of 402 miles..."

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 12:47:02 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 24 May 2022 20:54:43 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, May 24, 2022 at 8:43:55 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> On Tue, 24 May 2022 19:44:24 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 5/24/2022 6:29 PM, sms wrote:
> >> >> On 5/24/2022 3:43 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> >>> On Tue, 24 May 2022 07:39:52 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> >>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 4:08:13 AM UTC-7,
> >> >>>> purushottam gaurav wrote:
> >> >>>>> The global electric vehicle charging infrastructure
> >> >>>>> market size reached USD 5.64 Billion in 2020 and is
> >> >>>>> expected to register a revenue CAGR of 38.6%. This will
> >> >>>>> keep growing as multiple countries are investing in EV
> >> >>>>> vehicle to reduce pollution and decrease dependency on
> >> >>>>> gas and fuels.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Read more@
> >> >>>>> https://www.emergenresearch.com/industry-report/electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-market
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>> 1. I have shown the numbers - electric vehicles save NO
> >> >>>> pollution. They just cixplace it to another area.
> >> >>>> Toyora's latest motor is actually 4% more efficient and
> >> >>>> creates less pollution than EV's.
> >> >>>> 2. Anyone that was interested in actual pollutionless
> >> >>>> vehicles would be driving and promoting hydrogen powered
> >> >>>> cars. Since hydrogen can be made pretty cheaply from
> >> >>>> seawater, and water is nearly everywhere and the results
> >> >>>> of hydrogen combustion is water and heat, Perhaps you'd
> >> >>>> like to explain why we should use either an EV or a gas
> >> >>>> powered more efficient Toyota high efficiency gas motor?
> >> >>>> 3. We really don't need stock brokers pushing a stock in
> >> >>>> order to make money off of a group that knows what you are.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> And "Tommy the Failure" tells us all about how "He
> >> >>> Showed".... A chap
> >> >>> that wasn't intelligent enough to be capable of completing
> >> >>> high
> >> >>> school?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Tommy, you are possible capable of "showing" how to put
> >> >>> your trousers
> >> >>> on "right side front" but nothing more complex.
> >> >>
> >> >> Tom is wrong of course™, on multiple counts.
> >> >>
> >> >> The reality is that the production of hydrogen is highly
> >> >> dependent on the use of fossil fuel, either natural gas for
> >> >> the SMR process, or electricity for the costlier
> >> >> electrolysis of water process. Generating electricity to
> >> >> produce hydrogen, then using the hydrogen in a fuel cell to
> >> >> generate electricity for an electric motor, is less
> >> >> efficient than just charging batteries with electricity. The
> >> >> big advantage of hydrogen is that it's much faster to refuel
> >> >> a fuel cell vehicle, minutes instead of hours.
> >> >>
> >> >> The other issue with hydrogen is the distribution network.
> >> >> The distribution network for electricity is already in
> >> >> place, plus it's relatively easy for a house in much of the
> >> >> country to generate all the electricity that they require
> >> >> from solar. In other areas wind, hydro, and solar do not
> >> >> produce GHGs.
> >> >>
> >> >> Given the average daily mileage of drivers in the U.S., even
> >> >> recharging overnight with a Level 1 charger (120 volts)
> >> >> would give sufficient range for daily use. For long trips
> >> >> there is a need for charging infrastructure. The problem
> >> >> that charging station companies are having is that the
> >> >> demand for public charging stations to be available is very
> >> >> high, because of range anxiety, but because the cost per KWH
> >> >> is high at those stations most EV owners eschew the paid
> >> >> public charging stations and charge at home instead.
> >> >>
> >> >> According to an MIT study, electric vehicle production
> >> >> generates greater emissions than the production of internal
> >> >> combustion or diesel powered cars, but this is offset by the
> >> >> lower emissions per mile over the life of the car, even if
> >> >> fossil fuel is used to generate the electricity.
> >> >> <https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/lifetime-emissions-of-evs-are-lower-than-gasoline-cars-experts-say.html>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >There's one more problem in that hydrogen is maddeningly
> >> >difficult to contain. Customers who work with it report that
> >> >everything leaks and the cost (money & time) of storing it
> >> >are way out of scale to other compressed gases.
> >> Years and years ago Mercedes experimented with building hydrogen
> >> fueled cars and abandoned the project as impractical largely because
> >> the damned stuff leaks so badly.
> >>
> >> More recently they tried again and I believe have given up a second
> >> time
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> John B.
> >
> >Not to give any credit whatsoever to Tommy, but I have seen articles about some companies using hydrogen powered vehicles. Delivery fleets or vehicles used at mining operations or on company property. So hydrogen is possible to use as a vehicle fuel source. In certain controlled enterprises. But likely not practical on a wide scale use.
> Not to start an argument but can you post a reference to company(s)
> using hydrogen? I'm sincerely interested as it would seem to me that
> procuring, storing and using hydrogen would be a gigantic "pain in the
> arse" and I wonder about why someone would bother.
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_vehicle#Fork_trucks
https://electrek.co/2022/05/06/the-worlds-largest-hydrogen-battery-hybrid-mine-haul-truck-starts-work/
The Wikipedia mentions hydrogen used in many different vehicles.

I thought I had read about hydrogen mining trucks a long time ago. But it seems to be very very very recent. I am very worried my mind is becoming like Tommy's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On 5/25/2022 6:16 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 12:47:02 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 May 2022 20:54:43 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, May 24, 2022 at 8:43:55 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 24 May 2022 19:44:24 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/24/2022 6:29 PM, sms wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/24/2022 3:43 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 24 May 2022 07:39:52 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 4:08:13 AM UTC-7,
>>>>>>>> purushottam gaurav wrote:
>>>>>>>>> The global electric vehicle charging infrastructure
>>>>>>>>> market size reached USD 5.64 Billion in 2020 and is
>>>>>>>>> expected to register a revenue CAGR of 38.6%. This will
>>>>>>>>> keep growing as multiple countries are investing in EV
>>>>>>>>> vehicle to reduce pollution and decrease dependency on
>>>>>>>>> gas and fuels.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Read more@
>>>>>>>>> https://www.emergenresearch.com/industry-report/electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-market
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. I have shown the numbers - electric vehicles save NO
>>>>>>>> pollution. They just cixplace it to another area.
>>>>>>>> Toyora's latest motor is actually 4% more efficient and
>>>>>>>> creates less pollution than EV's.
>>>>>>>> 2. Anyone that was interested in actual pollutionless
>>>>>>>> vehicles would be driving and promoting hydrogen powered
>>>>>>>> cars. Since hydrogen can be made pretty cheaply from
>>>>>>>> seawater, and water is nearly everywhere and the results
>>>>>>>> of hydrogen combustion is water and heat, Perhaps you'd
>>>>>>>> like to explain why we should use either an EV or a gas
>>>>>>>> powered more efficient Toyota high efficiency gas motor?
>>>>>>>> 3. We really don't need stock brokers pushing a stock in
>>>>>>>> order to make money off of a group that knows what you are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And "Tommy the Failure" tells us all about how "He
>>>>>>> Showed".... A chap
>>>>>>> that wasn't intelligent enough to be capable of completing
>>>>>>> high
>>>>>>> school?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tommy, you are possible capable of "showing" how to put
>>>>>>> your trousers
>>>>>>> on "right side front" but nothing more complex.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom is wrong of courseâ„¢, on multiple counts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The reality is that the production of hydrogen is highly
>>>>>> dependent on the use of fossil fuel, either natural gas for
>>>>>> the SMR process, or electricity for the costlier
>>>>>> electrolysis of water process. Generating electricity to
>>>>>> produce hydrogen, then using the hydrogen in a fuel cell to
>>>>>> generate electricity for an electric motor, is less
>>>>>> efficient than just charging batteries with electricity. The
>>>>>> big advantage of hydrogen is that it's much faster to refuel
>>>>>> a fuel cell vehicle, minutes instead of hours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The other issue with hydrogen is the distribution network.
>>>>>> The distribution network for electricity is already in
>>>>>> place, plus it's relatively easy for a house in much of the
>>>>>> country to generate all the electricity that they require
>>>>>> from solar. In other areas wind, hydro, and solar do not
>>>>>> produce GHGs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given the average daily mileage of drivers in the U.S., even
>>>>>> recharging overnight with a Level 1 charger (120 volts)
>>>>>> would give sufficient range for daily use. For long trips
>>>>>> there is a need for charging infrastructure. The problem
>>>>>> that charging station companies are having is that the
>>>>>> demand for public charging stations to be available is very
>>>>>> high, because of range anxiety, but because the cost per KWH
>>>>>> is high at those stations most EV owners eschew the paid
>>>>>> public charging stations and charge at home instead.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> According to an MIT study, electric vehicle production
>>>>>> generates greater emissions than the production of internal
>>>>>> combustion or diesel powered cars, but this is offset by the
>>>>>> lower emissions per mile over the life of the car, even if
>>>>>> fossil fuel is used to generate the electricity.
>>>>>> <https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/lifetime-emissions-of-evs-are-lower-than-gasoline-cars-experts-say.html>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There's one more problem in that hydrogen is maddeningly
>>>>> difficult to contain. Customers who work with it report that
>>>>> everything leaks and the cost (money & time) of storing it
>>>>> are way out of scale to other compressed gases.
>>>> Years and years ago Mercedes experimented with building hydrogen
>>>> fueled cars and abandoned the project as impractical largely because
>>>> the damned stuff leaks so badly.
>>>>
>>>> More recently they tried again and I believe have given up a second
>>>> time
>>>> --
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> John B.
>>>
>>> Not to give any credit whatsoever to Tommy, but I have seen articles about some companies using hydrogen powered vehicles. Delivery fleets or vehicles used at mining operations or on company property. So hydrogen is possible to use as a vehicle fuel source. In certain controlled enterprises. But likely not practical on a wide scale use.
>> Not to start an argument but can you post a reference to company(s)
>> using hydrogen? I'm sincerely interested as it would seem to me that
>> procuring, storing and using hydrogen would be a gigantic "pain in the
>> arse" and I wonder about why someone would bother.
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_vehicle#Fork_trucks
> https://electrek.co/2022/05/06/the-worlds-largest-hydrogen-battery-hybrid-mine-haul-truck-starts-work/
> The Wikipedia mentions hydrogen used in many different vehicles.
>
> I thought I had read about hydrogen mining trucks a long time ago. But it seems to be very very very recent. I am very worried my mind is becoming like Tommy's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>

You probably did read it long ago. Hydrogen fuel has been
'the next thing' since at least the 1960s but implementation
is extremely difficult.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wed, 25 May 2022 16:16:10 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 12:47:02 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 May 2022 20:54:43 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tuesday, May 24, 2022 at 8:43:55 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 24 May 2022 19:44:24 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On 5/24/2022 6:29 PM, sms wrote:
>> >> >> On 5/24/2022 3:43 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >> >>> On Tue, 24 May 2022 07:39:52 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> >> >>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 4:08:13 AM UTC-7,
>> >> >>>> purushottam gaurav wrote:
>> >> >>>>> The global electric vehicle charging infrastructure
>> >> >>>>> market size reached USD 5.64 Billion in 2020 and is
>> >> >>>>> expected to register a revenue CAGR of 38.6%. This will
>> >> >>>>> keep growing as multiple countries are investing in EV
>> >> >>>>> vehicle to reduce pollution and decrease dependency on
>> >> >>>>> gas and fuels.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Read more@
>> >> >>>>> https://www.emergenresearch.com/industry-report/electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-market
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>> 1. I have shown the numbers - electric vehicles save NO
>> >> >>>> pollution. They just cixplace it to another area.
>> >> >>>> Toyora's latest motor is actually 4% more efficient and
>> >> >>>> creates less pollution than EV's.
>> >> >>>> 2. Anyone that was interested in actual pollutionless
>> >> >>>> vehicles would be driving and promoting hydrogen powered
>> >> >>>> cars. Since hydrogen can be made pretty cheaply from
>> >> >>>> seawater, and water is nearly everywhere and the results
>> >> >>>> of hydrogen combustion is water and heat, Perhaps you'd
>> >> >>>> like to explain why we should use either an EV or a gas
>> >> >>>> powered more efficient Toyota high efficiency gas motor?
>> >> >>>> 3. We really don't need stock brokers pushing a stock in
>> >> >>>> order to make money off of a group that knows what you are.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> And "Tommy the Failure" tells us all about how "He
>> >> >>> Showed".... A chap
>> >> >>> that wasn't intelligent enough to be capable of completing
>> >> >>> high
>> >> >>> school?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Tommy, you are possible capable of "showing" how to put
>> >> >>> your trousers
>> >> >>> on "right side front" but nothing more complex.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Tom is wrong of course™, on multiple counts.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The reality is that the production of hydrogen is highly
>> >> >> dependent on the use of fossil fuel, either natural gas for
>> >> >> the SMR process, or electricity for the costlier
>> >> >> electrolysis of water process. Generating electricity to
>> >> >> produce hydrogen, then using the hydrogen in a fuel cell to
>> >> >> generate electricity for an electric motor, is less
>> >> >> efficient than just charging batteries with electricity. The
>> >> >> big advantage of hydrogen is that it's much faster to refuel
>> >> >> a fuel cell vehicle, minutes instead of hours.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The other issue with hydrogen is the distribution network.
>> >> >> The distribution network for electricity is already in
>> >> >> place, plus it's relatively easy for a house in much of the
>> >> >> country to generate all the electricity that they require
>> >> >> from solar. In other areas wind, hydro, and solar do not
>> >> >> produce GHGs.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Given the average daily mileage of drivers in the U.S., even
>> >> >> recharging overnight with a Level 1 charger (120 volts)
>> >> >> would give sufficient range for daily use. For long trips
>> >> >> there is a need for charging infrastructure. The problem
>> >> >> that charging station companies are having is that the
>> >> >> demand for public charging stations to be available is very
>> >> >> high, because of range anxiety, but because the cost per KWH
>> >> >> is high at those stations most EV owners eschew the paid
>> >> >> public charging stations and charge at home instead.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> According to an MIT study, electric vehicle production
>> >> >> generates greater emissions than the production of internal
>> >> >> combustion or diesel powered cars, but this is offset by the
>> >> >> lower emissions per mile over the life of the car, even if
>> >> >> fossil fuel is used to generate the electricity.
>> >> >> <https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/lifetime-emissions-of-evs-are-lower-than-gasoline-cars-experts-say.html>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >There's one more problem in that hydrogen is maddeningly
>> >> >difficult to contain. Customers who work with it report that
>> >> >everything leaks and the cost (money & time) of storing it
>> >> >are way out of scale to other compressed gases.
>> >> Years and years ago Mercedes experimented with building hydrogen
>> >> fueled cars and abandoned the project as impractical largely because
>> >> the damned stuff leaks so badly.
>> >>
>> >> More recently they tried again and I believe have given up a second
>> >> time
>> >> --
>> >> Cheers,
>> >>
>> >> John B.
>> >
>> >Not to give any credit whatsoever to Tommy, but I have seen articles about some companies using hydrogen powered vehicles. Delivery fleets or vehicles used at mining operations or on company property. So hydrogen is possible to use as a vehicle fuel source. In certain controlled enterprises. But likely not practical on a wide scale use.
>> Not to start an argument but can you post a reference to company(s)
>> using hydrogen? I'm sincerely interested as it would seem to me that
>> procuring, storing and using hydrogen would be a gigantic "pain in the
>> arse" and I wonder about why someone would bother.
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_vehicle#Fork_trucks
>https://electrek.co/2022/05/06/the-worlds-largest-hydrogen-battery-hybrid-mine-haul-truck-starts-work/
>The Wikipedia mentions hydrogen used in many different vehicles.
>
>I thought I had read about hydrogen mining trucks a long time ago. But it seems to be very very very recent. I am very worried my mind is becoming like Tommy's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The reference to Hydrogen seems to be largely in reference to
something called "fuel cells" which seem to be a device to make
electricity which powers the device. I had been thinking of directly
burning hydrogen in an internal combustion engine.
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 25 May 2022 16:16:10 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
> <ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 12:47:02 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>> On Tue, 24 May 2022 20:54:43 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, May 24, 2022 at 8:43:55 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 24 May 2022 19:44:24 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/24/2022 6:29 PM, sms wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/24/2022 3:43 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 24 May 2022 07:39:52 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 4:08:13 AM UTC-7,
>>>>>>>>> purushottam gaurav wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> The global electric vehicle charging infrastructure
>>>>>>>>>> market size reached USD 5.64 Billion in 2020 and is
>>>>>>>>>> expected to register a revenue CAGR of 38.6%. This will
>>>>>>>>>> keep growing as multiple countries are investing in EV
>>>>>>>>>> vehicle to reduce pollution and decrease dependency on
>>>>>>>>>> gas and fuels.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Read more@
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.emergenresearch.com/industry-report/electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-market
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. I have shown the numbers - electric vehicles save NO
>>>>>>>>> pollution. They just cixplace it to another area.
>>>>>>>>> Toyora's latest motor is actually 4% more efficient and
>>>>>>>>> creates less pollution than EV's.
>>>>>>>>> 2. Anyone that was interested in actual pollutionless
>>>>>>>>> vehicles would be driving and promoting hydrogen powered
>>>>>>>>> cars. Since hydrogen can be made pretty cheaply from
>>>>>>>>> seawater, and water is nearly everywhere and the results
>>>>>>>>> of hydrogen combustion is water and heat, Perhaps you'd
>>>>>>>>> like to explain why we should use either an EV or a gas
>>>>>>>>> powered more efficient Toyota high efficiency gas motor?
>>>>>>>>> 3. We really don't need stock brokers pushing a stock in
>>>>>>>>> order to make money off of a group that knows what you are.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And "Tommy the Failure" tells us all about how "He
>>>>>>>> Showed".... A chap
>>>>>>>> that wasn't intelligent enough to be capable of completing
>>>>>>>> high
>>>>>>>> school?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tommy, you are possible capable of "showing" how to put
>>>>>>>> your trousers
>>>>>>>> on "right side front" but nothing more complex.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tom is wrong of course™, on multiple counts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The reality is that the production of hydrogen is highly
>>>>>>> dependent on the use of fossil fuel, either natural gas for
>>>>>>> the SMR process, or electricity for the costlier
>>>>>>> electrolysis of water process. Generating electricity to
>>>>>>> produce hydrogen, then using the hydrogen in a fuel cell to
>>>>>>> generate electricity for an electric motor, is less
>>>>>>> efficient than just charging batteries with electricity. The
>>>>>>> big advantage of hydrogen is that it's much faster to refuel
>>>>>>> a fuel cell vehicle, minutes instead of hours.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The other issue with hydrogen is the distribution network.
>>>>>>> The distribution network for electricity is already in
>>>>>>> place, plus it's relatively easy for a house in much of the
>>>>>>> country to generate all the electricity that they require
>>>>>>> from solar. In other areas wind, hydro, and solar do not
>>>>>>> produce GHGs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given the average daily mileage of drivers in the U.S., even
>>>>>>> recharging overnight with a Level 1 charger (120 volts)
>>>>>>> would give sufficient range for daily use. For long trips
>>>>>>> there is a need for charging infrastructure. The problem
>>>>>>> that charging station companies are having is that the
>>>>>>> demand for public charging stations to be available is very
>>>>>>> high, because of range anxiety, but because the cost per KWH
>>>>>>> is high at those stations most EV owners eschew the paid
>>>>>>> public charging stations and charge at home instead.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> According to an MIT study, electric vehicle production
>>>>>>> generates greater emissions than the production of internal
>>>>>>> combustion or diesel powered cars, but this is offset by the
>>>>>>> lower emissions per mile over the life of the car, even if
>>>>>>> fossil fuel is used to generate the electricity.
>>>>>>> <https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/lifetime-emissions-of-evs-are-lower-than-gasoline-cars-experts-say.html>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's one more problem in that hydrogen is maddeningly
>>>>>> difficult to contain. Customers who work with it report that
>>>>>> everything leaks and the cost (money & time) of storing it
>>>>>> are way out of scale to other compressed gases.
>>>>> Years and years ago Mercedes experimented with building hydrogen
>>>>> fueled cars and abandoned the project as impractical largely because
>>>>> the damned stuff leaks so badly.
>>>>>
>>>>> More recently they tried again and I believe have given up a second
>>>>> time
>>>>> --
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> John B.
>>>>
>>>> Not to give any credit whatsoever to Tommy, but I have seen articles
>>>> about some companies using hydrogen powered vehicles. Delivery fleets
>>>> or vehicles used at mining operations or on company property. So
>>>> hydrogen is possible to use as a vehicle fuel source. In certain
>>>> controlled enterprises. But likely not practical on a wide scale use.
>>> Not to start an argument but can you post a reference to company(s)
>>> using hydrogen? I'm sincerely interested as it would seem to me that
>>> procuring, storing and using hydrogen would be a gigantic "pain in the
>>> arse" and I wonder about why someone would bother.
>>> --
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> John B.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_vehicle#Fork_trucks
>> https://electrek.co/2022/05/06/the-worlds-largest-hydrogen-battery-hybrid-mine-haul-truck-starts-work/
>> The Wikipedia mentions hydrogen used in many different vehicles.
>>
>> I thought I had read about hydrogen mining trucks a long time ago. But
>> it seems to be very very very recent. I am very worried my mind is
>> becoming like Tommy's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> The reference to Hydrogen seems to be largely in reference to
> something called "fuel cells" which seem to be a device to make
> electricity which powers the device. I had been thinking of directly
> burning hydrogen in an internal combustion engine.

Yup, there is a few though not many such cars around here, as london does
have a hydrogen fuel station, only a handful in the county.

Plenty more EV’s including one in the street.

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 5/25/2022 12:01 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> Fuel to go 400 miles of more will ALWAYS be impossible on a battery car
>> because the weight and size goes up faster than the mileage gains.
>
> https://electrek.co/2022/01/05/tesla-model-s-752-miles-range-one-energy-dense-battery-pack/
>
> https://www.tesla.com/blog/model-s-long-range-plus-building-first-400-mile-electric-vehicle
>
> "Starting today, all North American Model S Long Range Plus vehicles
> have an official EPA-rated range of 402 miles..."
>
>
>
Tesla used to have a range calculator with temp/speed to calculate range.

I’m told that stop start traffic EV’s do well ie maximum range, vs
motorways where the range can drop, which to a extent is reverse for ICE
cars, certainly my old Volvo it’s estimated range will extend once it’s
rolling along at 70ish on the motorways where as shorter urban drives will
really pull the range down.

Though it’s favoured is slower cross country drives ie 50/60mph on smaller
roads which I’d expect both types to do well at.

Uk has lots motorway charging though they are still unreliable vs fuel
pumps.

Roger Merriman

On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 5:31:15 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/25/2022 6:16 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 12:47:02 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> On Tue, 24 May 2022 20:54:43 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Tuesday, May 24, 2022 at 8:43:55 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>>> On Tue, 24 May 2022 19:44:24 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 5/24/2022 6:29 PM, sms wrote:
> >>>>>> On 5/24/2022 3:43 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Tue, 24 May 2022 07:39:52 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 4:08:13 AM UTC-7,
> >>>>>>>> purushottam gaurav wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> The global electric vehicle charging infrastructure
> >>>>>>>>> market size reached USD 5.64 Billion in 2020 and is
> >>>>>>>>> expected to register a revenue CAGR of 38.6%. This will
> >>>>>>>>> keep growing as multiple countries are investing in EV
> >>>>>>>>> vehicle to reduce pollution and decrease dependency on
> >>>>>>>>> gas and fuels.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Read more@
> >>>>>>>>> https://www.emergenresearch.com/industry-report/electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-market
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 1. I have shown the numbers - electric vehicles save NO
> >>>>>>>> pollution. They just cixplace it to another area.
> >>>>>>>> Toyora's latest motor is actually 4% more efficient and
> >>>>>>>> creates less pollution than EV's.
> >>>>>>>> 2. Anyone that was interested in actual pollutionless
> >>>>>>>> vehicles would be driving and promoting hydrogen powered
> >>>>>>>> cars. Since hydrogen can be made pretty cheaply from
> >>>>>>>> seawater, and water is nearly everywhere and the results
> >>>>>>>> of hydrogen combustion is water and heat, Perhaps you'd
> >>>>>>>> like to explain why we should use either an EV or a gas
> >>>>>>>> powered more efficient Toyota high efficiency gas motor?
> >>>>>>>> 3. We really don't need stock brokers pushing a stock in
> >>>>>>>> order to make money off of a group that knows what you are.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> And "Tommy the Failure" tells us all about how "He
> >>>>>>> Showed".... A chap
> >>>>>>> that wasn't intelligent enough to be capable of completing
> >>>>>>> high
> >>>>>>> school?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Tommy, you are possible capable of "showing" how to put
> >>>>>>> your trousers
> >>>>>>> on "right side front" but nothing more complex.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Tom is wrong of courseâ„¢, on multiple counts.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The reality is that the production of hydrogen is highly
> >>>>>> dependent on the use of fossil fuel, either natural gas for
> >>>>>> the SMR process, or electricity for the costlier
> >>>>>> electrolysis of water process. Generating electricity to
> >>>>>> produce hydrogen, then using the hydrogen in a fuel cell to
> >>>>>> generate electricity for an electric motor, is less
> >>>>>> efficient than just charging batteries with electricity. The
> >>>>>> big advantage of hydrogen is that it's much faster to refuel
> >>>>>> a fuel cell vehicle, minutes instead of hours.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The other issue with hydrogen is the distribution network.
> >>>>>> The distribution network for electricity is already in
> >>>>>> place, plus it's relatively easy for a house in much of the
> >>>>>> country to generate all the electricity that they require
> >>>>>> from solar. In other areas wind, hydro, and solar do not
> >>>>>> produce GHGs.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Given the average daily mileage of drivers in the U.S., even
> >>>>>> recharging overnight with a Level 1 charger (120 volts)
> >>>>>> would give sufficient range for daily use. For long trips
> >>>>>> there is a need for charging infrastructure. The problem
> >>>>>> that charging station companies are having is that the
> >>>>>> demand for public charging stations to be available is very
> >>>>>> high, because of range anxiety, but because the cost per KWH
> >>>>>> is high at those stations most EV owners eschew the paid
> >>>>>> public charging stations and charge at home instead.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> According to an MIT study, electric vehicle production
> >>>>>> generates greater emissions than the production of internal
> >>>>>> combustion or diesel powered cars, but this is offset by the
> >>>>>> lower emissions per mile over the life of the car, even if
> >>>>>> fossil fuel is used to generate the electricity.
> >>>>>> <https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/lifetime-emissions-of-evs-are-lower-than-gasoline-cars-experts-say.html>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There's one more problem in that hydrogen is maddeningly
> >>>>> difficult to contain. Customers who work with it report that
> >>>>> everything leaks and the cost (money & time) of storing it
> >>>>> are way out of scale to other compressed gases.
> >>>> Years and years ago Mercedes experimented with building hydrogen
> >>>> fueled cars and abandoned the project as impractical largely because
> >>>> the damned stuff leaks so badly.
> >>>>
> >>>> More recently they tried again and I believe have given up a second
> >>>> time
> >>>> --
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>>
> >>>> John B.
> >>>
> >>> Not to give any credit whatsoever to Tommy, but I have seen articles about some companies using hydrogen powered vehicles. Delivery fleets or vehicles used at mining operations or on company property. So hydrogen is possible to use as a vehicle fuel source. In certain controlled enterprises. But likely not practical on a wide scale use.
> >> Not to start an argument but can you post a reference to company(s)
> >> using hydrogen? I'm sincerely interested as it would seem to me that
> >> procuring, storing and using hydrogen would be a gigantic "pain in the
> >> arse" and I wonder about why someone would bother.
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> John B.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_vehicle#Fork_trucks
> > https://electrek.co/2022/05/06/the-worlds-largest-hydrogen-battery-hybrid-mine-haul-truck-starts-work/
> > The Wikipedia mentions hydrogen used in many different vehicles.
> >
> > I thought I had read about hydrogen mining trucks a long time ago. But it seems to be very very very recent. I am very worried my mind is becoming like Tommy's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> You probably did read it long ago. Hydrogen fuel has been
> 'the next thing' since at least the 1960s but implementation
> is extremely difficult.

Most people don't have the chemistry to understand hydrogen combustion. Energy fhrough chemical means requires mass and hydrogen has very little mass and hence is a bad idea for internal combustion engines. That is why it has always been the next great thing that never was. Frank could have told you that if he had any education at all but plainly he hasn't or whatever he did have disappeared long ago during some boring lecture he was giving to put his students to sleep.

On 5/28/2022 5:44 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:

<snip>

> Tesla used to have a range calculator with temp/speed to calculate range.
>
> I’m told that stop start traffic EV’s do well ie maximum range, vs
> motorways where the range can drop, which to a extent is reverse for ICE
> cars, certainly my old Volvo it’s estimated range will extend once it’s
> rolling along at 70ish on the motorways where as shorter urban drives will
> really pull the range down.
>
> Though it’s favoured is slower cross country drives ie 50/60mph on smaller
> roads which I’d expect both types to do well at.
>
> Uk has lots motorway charging though they are still unreliable vs fuel
> pumps.
>
> Roger Merriman

Tom is wrong of course™ regarding the range of electric cars.

There are already models with over 500 miles of range, as well as a
bunch with 400 miles of range. The range is comparable to gasoline
powered vehicles. The big difference is 5 minutes to completely refuel a
gasoline powered car versus a little more than an hour to charge a Tesla
to 100% on a supercharger. On a trip from San Francisco to Los Angeles
you'd definitely need to charge an electric vehicle once, at least
partially.

On Sat, 28 May 2022 11:31:18 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>On 5/28/2022 5:44 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> Tesla used to have a range calculator with temp/speed to calculate range.
>>
>> I’m told that stop start traffic EV’s do well ie maximum range, vs
>> motorways where the range can drop, which to a extent is reverse for ICE
>> cars, certainly my old Volvo it’s estimated range will extend once it’s
>> rolling along at 70ish on the motorways where as shorter urban drives will
>> really pull the range down.
>>
>> Though it’s favoured is slower cross country drives ie 50/60mph on smaller
>> roads which I’d expect both types to do well at.
>>
>> Uk has lots motorway charging though they are still unreliable vs fuel
>> pumps.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
>Tom is wrong of course™ regarding the range of electric cars.
>
>There are already models with over 500 miles of range, as well as a
>bunch with 400 miles of range. The range is comparable to gasoline
>powered vehicles. The big difference is 5 minutes to completely refuel a
>gasoline powered car versus a little more than an hour to charge a Tesla
>to 100% on a supercharger. On a trip from San Francisco to Los Angeles
>you'd definitely need to charge an electric vehicle once, at least
>partially.
>

If, one sets out on a drive, say from New York City to Sam Francisco,
is it a problem finding re-charge stations.
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 28 May 2022 11:31:18 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 5/28/2022 5:44 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Tesla used to have a range calculator with temp/speed to calculate range.
>>>
>>> I’m told that stop start traffic EV’s do well ie maximum range, vs
>>> motorways where the range can drop, which to a extent is reverse for ICE
>>> cars, certainly my old Volvo it’s estimated range will extend once it’s
>>> rolling along at 70ish on the motorways where as shorter urban drives will
>>> really pull the range down.
>>>
>>> Though it’s favoured is slower cross country drives ie 50/60mph on smaller
>>> roads which I’d expect both types to do well at.
>>>
>>> Uk has lots motorway charging though they are still unreliable vs fuel
>>> pumps.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> Tom is wrong of course™ regarding the range of electric cars.
>>
>> There are already models with over 500 miles of range, as well as a
>> bunch with 400 miles of range. The range is comparable to gasoline
>> powered vehicles. The big difference is 5 minutes to completely refuel a
>> gasoline powered car versus a little more than an hour to charge a Tesla
>> to 100% on a supercharger. On a trip from San Francisco to Los Angeles
>> you'd definitely need to charge an electric vehicle once, at least
>> partially.
>>
>
> If, one sets out on a drive, say from New York City to Sam Francisco,
> is it a problem finding re-charge stations.

I’d assume that most folks realistically wouldn’t chose to drive for x
days, unless it’s a road trip say.

I guess you’d pick hotels with charging? Uk has charging at services so is
distance assuming it’s not one of the early 100 ish mile cars isn’t such a
problem, ie sooner or later you are going to need to stop anyway. The
gotchas from folks I know with EV’s are occasionally the charger doesn’t
work plus faff using the apps etc.

Personally the absolute range is enough but not having off street parking
charging locally isn’t a option so any EV would need the occasional trip to
charge which i suspect would get tedious!

Trips west to wales etc, not so much a problem due to the above chargers on
the motorways but locally would be less fun.

Roger Merriman

On 5/28/2022 7:13 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sat, 28 May 2022 11:31:18 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 5/28/2022 5:44 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Tesla used to have a range calculator with temp/speed to calculate range.
>>>
>>> I’m told that stop start traffic EV’s do well ie maximum range, vs
>>> motorways where the range can drop, which to a extent is reverse for ICE
>>> cars, certainly my old Volvo it’s estimated range will extend once it’s
>>> rolling along at 70ish on the motorways where as shorter urban drives will
>>> really pull the range down.
>>>
>>> Though it’s favoured is slower cross country drives ie 50/60mph on smaller
>>> roads which I’d expect both types to do well at.
>>>
>>> Uk has lots motorway charging though they are still unreliable vs fuel
>>> pumps.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> Tom is wrong of course™ regarding the range of electric cars.
>>
>> There are already models with over 500 miles of range, as well as a
>> bunch with 400 miles of range. The range is comparable to gasoline
>> powered vehicles. The big difference is 5 minutes to completely refuel a
>> gasoline powered car versus a little more than an hour to charge a Tesla
>> to 100% on a supercharger. On a trip from San Francisco to Los Angeles
>> you'd definitely need to charge an electric vehicle once, at least
>> partially.
>>
>
> If, one sets out on a drive, say from New York City to Sam Francisco,
> is it a problem finding re-charge stations.

https://www.engadget.com/2017-07-09-electric-car-coast-to-coast-us-record.html

It takes planning, much more than with a gasoline vehicle. But there are
numerous apps that help locate charging stations, and even make
recommendations on when, where and how long you should stop to recharge
based on the characteristics of your particular electric vehicle.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 5/28/2022 4:13 PM, John B. wrote:

<snip>

> If, one sets out on a drive, say from New York City to Sam Francisco,
> is it a problem finding re-charge stations.

Not really, but you need to plan your route, see
<https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/find/nearest?fuel=ELEC>.

Of course this kind of trip is pretty rare.

On 5/28/2022 6:13 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sat, 28 May 2022 11:31:18 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 5/28/2022 5:44 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Tesla used to have a range calculator with temp/speed to calculate range.
>>>
>>> I’m told that stop start traffic EV’s do well ie maximum range, vs
>>> motorways where the range can drop, which to a extent is reverse for ICE
>>> cars, certainly my old Volvo it’s estimated range will extend once it’s
>>> rolling along at 70ish on the motorways where as shorter urban drives will
>>> really pull the range down.
>>>
>>> Though it’s favoured is slower cross country drives ie 50/60mph on smaller
>>> roads which I’d expect both types to do well at.
>>>
>>> Uk has lots motorway charging though they are still unreliable vs fuel
>>> pumps.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> Tom is wrong of course™ regarding the range of electric cars.
>>
>> There are already models with over 500 miles of range, as well as a
>> bunch with 400 miles of range. The range is comparable to gasoline
>> powered vehicles. The big difference is 5 minutes to completely refuel a
>> gasoline powered car versus a little more than an hour to charge a Tesla
>> to 100% on a supercharger. On a trip from San Francisco to Los Angeles
>> you'd definitely need to charge an electric vehicle once, at least
>> partially.
>>
>
> If, one sets out on a drive, say from New York City to Sam Francisco,
> is it a problem finding re-charge stations.
>

end of 2021 it was Audi 25h 39min, Tesla at 42h 17min.

https://autowise.com/cannonball-run-record/

Both have since been broken but I couldn't find those times
quickly.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Am 29.05.2022 um 01:42 schrieb Roger Merriman:
> Personally the absolute range is enough but not having off street parking
> charging locally isn’t a option so any EV would need the occasional trip to
> charge which i suspect would get tedious!

It turns out not to be a problem, with the wife shopping at ALDI once a
week. 30 mins fast-charge while shopping is good for 150 miles or so.