On 6/5/2022 5:28 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Sunday, June 5, 2022 at 9:47:08 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 6/5/2022 2:37 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Sunday, June 5, 2022 at 12:31:37 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 4 Jun 2022 21:02:15 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 11:14:52 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/28/2022 2:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But more relevant, the NRA and manufacturers of deadly
>>>>>>> combat-optimized weaponry support each other heavily and
>>>>>>> mutually. Our nation's obscene mass shootings and gun death
>>>>>>> numbers are the direct result.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 'Combat-optimized' my ass. There's no nation on earth who
>>>>>> issues their military with .223 repeaters.
>>>>>
>>>>> About that:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Major General Eaton was the commander in charge of training Iraqi soldiers during Operation Iraqi Freedom, so he definitely knows what he’s talking about when it comes to weaponry. " ...
>>>>>
>>>>> [He said on Twitter]: “As the former Commanding General of the Infantry Center at Fort Benning and Chief of Infantry, I know a bit about weapons. Let me state unequivocally — For all intents and purposes, the AR-15 and rifles like it are weapons of war. "
>>>>>
>>>>> "Those opposed to assault weapon bans continue to play games with AR-15 semantics, pretending there’s some meaningful differences between it and the M4 carbine that the military carries. There really aren’t."
>>>>>
>>>>> "The military began a transition from the M16 to the M4, an improved M16, some years ago. The AR-15 is essentially the civilian version of the M16. The M4 is really close to the M16, and the AR-15."
>>>>>
>>>>> ... "But our troops usually use single shot, not burst fire. You’re able to fire a much more accurate (deadly) shot, that way. Note: you can buy our Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight on Amazon. So troops usually select the same fire option available on AR-15."
>>>>>
>>>>> "That is why the AR-15 is ACCURATELY CALLED a ‘weapon of war.’ It is a very deadly weapon with the same basic functionality that our troops use to kill the enemy. Don’t take the bait when anti-gun-safety folks argue about it. They know it’s true. Now you do too."
>>>>>
>>>>> He sounds fairly well qualified to speak on this issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>> Yup. A weapon of war...
>>>> Just like
>>>>
>>>> The U.S. Musket Model 1795
>>>> The U.S. Model 1842 Musket
>>>> The Caliber .54, Model 1841 Rifle
>>>> The 1855 .58 caliber rifled musket.
>>>> The Sharps Rifle, which fired a .54 Caliber paper cartridge
>>>> The Spenser which fired a metallic cartridge
>>>> The Burnside, which used a unique tapered .54 Caliber metallic
>>>> cartridge
>>>> Note: more than 95,000 Sharps, 80,000 Spencer, and 54,000 Burnside
>>>> Carbines were purchased by the Army
>>>> The .45 caliber Model 1884
>>>> The 1896 .30 caliber Krag-Jorgensen
>>>> The Model 1899 Krag-Jorgensen
>>>> The 1903 Springfield
>>>> The M1 Garand Rifle
>>>> The Thompson submachine gun
>>>> The M3 submachine gun
>>>> The Browning Automatic Rifle (commonly known as the BAR)
>>>> The M4 rifle
>>>> The "M-16"
>>>>
>>>> For want of space I haven't listed special purpose sidearms nor
>>>> pistols
>>>>
>>>> So, obviously both you and your reference's singling out the AR type
>>>> of weapon as some sort of unique "military weapon" simply illustrates
>>>> a level of stupidity, or to be kind, perhaps a lack of knowledge, that
>>>> is nearly unbelievable.
>>>
>>> Not really sure what your argument here is John. The BAR was developed by John Browning for the military. And it was never sold to civilians. Although Bonnie and Clyde did use it I believe. They must have gotten ahold of one somehow. I think they cut off the stock. Probably Clyde since I doubt Bonnie could fire the 30-06 in auto mode. Which is the only mode the BAR had. Full machine gun. There was no semi auto single shooting with the BAR. The Thompson was invented by a Army general. After WW1 ended. Designed for trench fighting. Kill lots of soldiers quick in the trenches with a machine gun. Thompson was full auto only too. M3 was obviously for the military only. It replaced the Thompson.
>>>
>>> As for the AR-15, it was invented by Armalite in the mid 1950s by Eugene Stoner. He was the leader of the team. ArmaLite submitted the AR-15 (and its predecessor the AR-10) to the military when the military issued a request for proposal, product. The military wanted companies to make and submit a military rifle for them to evaluate whether they would buy them. So I am having a hard time understanding why anyone would argue the AR-15 is not a military weapon.
>>>
>>> John, you forgot to add the Colt M1911 pistol to your list. It was designed by Colt and John Browning back in the early 1900s for the military. The military wanted a 45 caliber pistol in semi auto. Colt and John Browning were the winners of the trials. Pistol for the military.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> And, I might add, the claim that "Oh! I was a General I know" is
>>>> factious at best. People of that rank are almost totally divorced from
>>>> the nitty-gritty of the every day job. It isn't their job.
>>>
>>> Yes, the day to day intricate details of training are not General work. But he would have a good understanding of the overall plan. Better than the detail trainers. Because he sees all the pieces coming together to execute the master plan. Unlike the daily trainer guys who only see their one small piece of the plan. So I give him a lot more credit than you do. What he said makes a whole lot of sense.
>>>
>>> And why are you objecting to his claim that the military uses its M4 and M16 rifles on semi auto mode? Because they want to be accurate. Are you aware that the military modified their M16 and M4 rifles to have a three round burst mode? Because the military discovered firing on full machine gun mode just wasted bullets and did not hit anything. They quickly realized shooting fewer shots with more control makes them more accurate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> But, I will admit, the General does make a very useful addition to
>>>> your anti-gun arguments. After it sounds pretty important..."The
>>>> General says...". Particularly to those who know nothing about the
>>>> Military.
>>>
>>> I am going to give some credence to the General. He made the military his life's work. I suspect he learned something about the military. Now he was only a one star General. Not a five star General. So he was not smart enough to rise up too high. So maybe he doesn't know anything about the military. Maybe the military makes so many Generals that only the smart ones are able to get out of the dumb one star General pool.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> John B.
>> Clyde Barrow was killed before the 1934 Firearms Act was put
>> into effect. His BAR was as legal as Mr Capone's Thompson,
>> at the time.
>
> OK. Seems odd today that we did not regulate military firearms a bit better. Did the US also allow anyone and everyone to go buy hand grenades and mortars?
>
>
>
>>
>> Regarding M1911 pistols, they're perfectly fine in .45. El
>> Jefe says the danger is from smaller 9mm.
>>
>> https://www.nraila.org/articles/20220602/biden-pushes-9mm-handgun-ban-harris-wants-to-ban-common-semi-autos
>
> I suspect Biden mentioned 9mm pistols because they are the most common caliber pistol in the whole world. Far outpacing the 45 ACP. Kind of like AR-15 rifles seems to be the most common rifle in the USA. And the most common used in mass killings. 9mm pistols are popular because of their high capacity magazines. Full size models have 18-19-20 rounds. With a 45 ACP in double stack magazine, you would only get about 13 rounds or so. And then you would need the hands of an NBA center to hold it because the grip, with the magazine inside, would be the diameter of a soda can. So high capacity 45 ACP pistols is not a worry. But high capacity 9mm pistols is with us today.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> As for semi light rifles, so was the M1 Garand in its day
>> and presently no one is more deadly than US snipers with
>> Barrett single shot rifles.
>
> The Barret 50 caliber sniper rifles are NOT single shot rifles. Unless you mean semi auto one pull of the trigger, one shot fired. Barrett 50 caliber rifles have a box magazine of 5 or so shells. And yes I know you can as an individual citizen, buy a Barrett sniper rifle in 50 caliber. A military weapon owned by non military citizens. I could and would argue that is wrong. But you could also argue the sniper rifle is basically a hunting rifle. So....
>
> As for single shot rifles, in the old time days, the US Army Springfield single shot rifle was used. And buffalo hunters used the Sharps rifle. Today, the most common, or famous single shot, is the Ruger #1.
>
> Bolt action rifles, with magazines, were used for sniper rifles in all of the wars in the 20th century. Although maybe the Barrett had made it to Iraq.
>
>
>
> They can 'reach out and touch' a
>> man at 1000+ yards. Which doesn't make those a 'sturmgewehr'
>> either.

ATF regulates .50 caliber firearms in the same protocol as
full-auto. Extensive paperwork for your permit, after
permitting, each item has tax stamps, ATF may (and they
actually do) make surprise inspections at any time. You may
not sell, lend or transfer your item, nor any part of it,
without ATF permission.

As with much other regulation, it's daunting for the law
abiding collector but no problem whatsoever for organized crime.

https://vpc.org/regulating-the-gun-industry/criminal-use-of-50-caliber/

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/17/nyregion/brooklyn-motorcycle-gang-members-arrested-on-weapons-charges.html?ref=nyregion&_r=0

https://www.funker530.com/video/gang-shootout-erupts-at-traffic-light-in-dense-traffic/
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971