On 15/03/22 12:47, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> The only difference between your news media (or the US) and Russia's
> is how subtle they are. They're all propaganda.
>
> You just believe what you want to be true, like most people.
>

I agree without reservation because that is why political discussions
are of no value so we should stay more on topic.

"pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote in
news:fd7d38a2-004d-41d1-85dd-fdc05a3568d7n@googlegroups.com:

> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 2:35:25 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> "pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:98bee50f-449c-4f00...@googlegroups.com:
>> > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 1:00:19 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
>> > Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> >> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>> >> news:25a8b1ae-462f-495c...@googlegroups.com:
>> >> > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 9:34:28 AM UTC-6, Paul S
>> >> > Person wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Would being blackmailed count? That is, does the payment
>> >> >> have to be a something one is given rather than something
>> >> >> that is not done to one?
>> >> >
>> >> > Yes, it would. The essential element of being a foreign
>> >> > agent is acting on behalf of a foreign government;
>> >> Not acting is sometimes an act.
>> >>
>> >> Unlike you, it's not so simple.
>> >> --
>> >> Terry Austin
>> >>
>> >> Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even
>> >> stupider than Lynn:
>> >> https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
>> >> (May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United
>> >> States illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest
>> >> border.)
>> >>
>> >> Vacation photos from Iceland:
>> >> https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
>> >
>> > Here's an MSNBC clip calling out Carlson's lying on Russian
>> > claims of Ukrainian bioweapons.
>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqwfbKrU3Eo
>> >
>> Do you have any evidence that he knows it's untrue? Because if
>> he believes it (which seems entirely plausible, it *is* an
>> idiot), it's not a lie.
>
> That's irrelevant. Regardless of whether he believes it or not,
> he's spreading Russian disinformation, and acting in Russias
> interest.
>
The issue isn't wheter or not it's true. Quaddie used the word
"lying." It's only lying if he *knows* it's not true. If he
believes it, it's not a lie, he's just a tool.

Try to pay attetion. Words matter.

(And if one is talking about the legalities of criminal
prosecution, intent *does* matter.)

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On 2022-03-14 7:11 p.m., pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 2:35:25 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> "pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:98bee50f-449c-4f00...@googlegroups.com:
>>> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 1:00:19 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
>>> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>>> news:25a8b1ae-462f-495c...@googlegroups.com:
>>>>> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 9:34:28 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Would being blackmailed count? That is, does the payment
>>>>>> have to be a something one is given rather than something
>>>>>> that is not done to one?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, it would. The essential element of being a foreign agent
>>>>> is acting on behalf of a foreign government;
>>>> Not acting is sometimes an act.
>>>>
>>>> Unlike you, it's not so simple.
>>>> --
>>>> Terry Austin
>>>>
>>>> Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider
>>>> than Lynn:
>>>> https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
>>>> (May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United
>>>> States illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest
>>>> border.)
>>>>
>>>> Vacation photos from Iceland:
>>>> https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
>>>
>>> Here's an MSNBC clip calling out Carlson's lying on Russian
>>> claims of Ukrainian bioweapons.
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqwfbKrU3Eo
>>>
>> Do you have any evidence that he knows it's untrue? Because if he
>> believes it (which seems entirely plausible, it *is* an idiot),
>> it's not a lie.
>
> That's irrelevant. Regardless of whether he believes it or not,
> he's spreading Russian disinformation, and acting in Russias
> interest.
>
> Pt

Moreover, if he knows he has no factual basis for what he purports to
believe...

....then it's still a lie to promulgate it.

Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:t0p334$p74$1@dont-email.me:

> On 15/03/22 12:47, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> The only difference between your news media (or the US) and
>> Russia's is how subtle they are. They're all propaganda.
>>
>> You just believe what you want to be true, like most people.
>>
>
> I agree without reservation because that is why political
> discussions are of no value

And yet, they happen a hell of a lot.

>so we should stay more on topic.
>
Like there's enough of that to be worth the effort to read the group.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On 2022-03-14 9:41 p.m., Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> "pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:fd7d38a2-004d-41d1-85dd-fdc05a3568d7n@googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 2:35:25 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
>> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> "pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:98bee50f-449c-4f00...@googlegroups.com:
>>>> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 1:00:19 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
>>>> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>>>> news:25a8b1ae-462f-495c...@googlegroups.com:
>>>>>> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 9:34:28 AM UTC-6, Paul S
>>>>>> Person wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would being blackmailed count? That is, does the payment
>>>>>>> have to be a something one is given rather than something
>>>>>>> that is not done to one?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, it would. The essential element of being a foreign
>>>>>> agent is acting on behalf of a foreign government;
>>>>> Not acting is sometimes an act.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unlike you, it's not so simple.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Terry Austin
>>>>>
>>>>> Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even
>>>>> stupider than Lynn:
>>>>> https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
>>>>> (May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United
>>>>> States illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest
>>>>> border.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Vacation photos from Iceland:
>>>>> https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
>>>>
>>>> Here's an MSNBC clip calling out Carlson's lying on Russian
>>>> claims of Ukrainian bioweapons.
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqwfbKrU3Eo
>>>>
>>> Do you have any evidence that he knows it's untrue? Because if
>>> he believes it (which seems entirely plausible, it *is* an
>>> idiot), it's not a lie.
>>
>> That's irrelevant. Regardless of whether he believes it or not,
>> he's spreading Russian disinformation, and acting in Russias
>> interest.
>>
> The issue isn't wheter or not it's true. Quaddie used the word
> "lying." It's only lying if he *knows* it's not true. If he
> believes it, it's not a lie, he's just a tool.

Ummmmmm....no.

It's a lie to state as truth that which you know you can't know is true.

>
> Try to pay attetion. Words matter.

Indeed they do.

>
> (And if one is talking about the legalities of criminal
> prosecution, intent *does* matter.)
>

On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 5:34:27 PM UTC-6, David Johnston wrote:

> It doesn't apply to people who aren't getting paid by the country they
> support but just do it because they admire the oppressive dictator's
> style. That is simply free speech.

In any case, _Mother Jones_ has obtained a Russian memo... that is
of related interest, even if it is insufficient to serve as decisive evidence
of Tucker Carlson being a foreign agent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lSgEJNW8B4

The memo refers to Tucker Carlson as being "essential" to Russia's
disinformation strategy with respect to the U.S..

John Savard

On 2022-03-14 9:50 p.m., Titus G wrote:
> On 15/03/22 16:14, David Johnston wrote:
>> On 2022-03-14 11:55 a.m., J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 09:00:40 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 9:34:28 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Would being blackmailed count? That is, does the payment have to be a
>>>>> something one is given rather than something that is not done to one?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, it would. The essential element of being a foreign agent is acting
>>>> on behalf of a foreign government; why one is doing so, whether for
>>>> money,
>>>> due to blackmail, or even quite voluntarily (so evidence of taking
>>>> directions
>>>> is enough) is not important.
>>>
>>> So you're saying that someone who is acting on behalf of a foreign
>>> government due to blackmail should be considered a criminal due to
>>> failure to register as a foreign agent?
>>>
>>> That's blaming the victim, and playing into the foreign government's
>>> hands.
>>
>> If you are blackmailed into committing a crime, you are still committing
>> a crime.
>
> The grand old Duke of York
> He had 12 million quid
> He gave it to someone he never met
> For something he never did.
>
> Don't mention Bill Clinton, Bill Gates etc, ad infinitum...

Donald Trump

But what the hell does that have to do with anything?

On 2022-03-15 12:15 a.m., Quadibloc wrote:
> On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 5:34:27 PM UTC-6, David Johnston wrote:
>
>> It doesn't apply to people who aren't getting paid by the country they
>> support but just do it because they admire the oppressive dictator's
>> style. That is simply free speech.
>
> In any case, _Mother Jones_ has obtained a Russian memo... that is
> of related interest, even if it is insufficient to serve as decisive evidence
> of Tucker Carlson being a foreign agent:

It isn't any kind of evidence of him being a foreign agent rather than
what used to be called a "useful idiot".

>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lSgEJNW8B4
>
> The memo refers to Tucker Carlson as being "essential" to Russia's
> disinformation strategy with respect to the U.S..
>
> John Savard

On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 9:50:45 PM UTC-6, Titus G wrote:

> Don't mention Bill Clinton, Bill Gates etc, ad infinitum...

Bill Gates? What does he have to do with anything? One
might as well mention the visionary and public benefactor
George Soros.

At least if one is a certain kind of kook.

John Savard

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> schrieb:
> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 9:50:45 PM UTC-6, Titus G wrote:
>
>> Don't mention Bill Clinton, Bill Gates etc, ad infinitum...
>
> Bill Gates? What does he have to do with anything?

Regarding Epstein? The New York Times (surely not somebody who
would smear Gates groundlessly) reported on that, and Gates's
ex-wife cited the Gates-Epstein relationship as one of the reasons
for their divorce. Just google "Gates Epstein", you'll find
it immediately.

On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 12:41:36 AM UTC-4, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> "pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:fd7d38a2-004d-41d1...@googlegroups.com:
> > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 2:35:25 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
> > Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> >> "pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> news:98bee50f-449c-4f00...@googlegroups.com:
> >> > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 1:00:19 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
> >> > Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> >> >> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
> >> >> news:25a8b1ae-462f-495c...@googlegroups.com:
> >> >> > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 9:34:28 AM UTC-6, Paul S
> >> >> > Person wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Would being blackmailed count? That is, does the payment
> >> >> >> have to be a something one is given rather than something
> >> >> >> that is not done to one?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Yes, it would. The essential element of being a foreign
> >> >> > agent is acting on behalf of a foreign government;
> >> >> Not acting is sometimes an act.
> >> >>
> >> >> Unlike you, it's not so simple.
> >> >> --
> >> >> Terry Austin
> >> >>
> >> >> Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even
> >> >> stupider than Lynn:
> >> >> https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
> >> >> (May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United
> >> >> States illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest
> >> >> border.)
> >> >>
> >> >> Vacation photos from Iceland:
> >> >> https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
> >> >
> >> > Here's an MSNBC clip calling out Carlson's lying on Russian
> >> > claims of Ukrainian bioweapons.
> >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqwfbKrU3Eo
> >> >
> >> Do you have any evidence that he knows it's untrue? Because if
> >> he believes it (which seems entirely plausible, it *is* an
> >> idiot), it's not a lie.
> >
> > That's irrelevant. Regardless of whether he believes it or not,
> > he's spreading Russian disinformation, and acting in Russias
> > interest.
> >
> The issue isn't wheter or not it's true. Quaddie used the word
> "lying." It's only lying if he *knows* it's not true. If he
> believes it, it's not a lie, he's just a tool.

Tucker knows he tells lies. He's said so himself, in interviews:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/media/2021/09/15/tucker-carlson-lies/8336612002/

> Try to pay attetion. Words matter.
>
> (And if one is talking about the legalities of criminal
> prosecution, intent *does* matter.)

We're not doing that. We're discussing if he's acting as
a Russian agent. The bar is a lot lower.

Pt

On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 5:07:19 PM UTC, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 12:41:36 AM UTC-4, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> > "pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
> > news:fd7d38a2-004d-41d1...@googlegroups.com:
> > > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 2:35:25 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
> > > Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> > >> "pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
> > >> news:98bee50f-449c-4f00...@googlegroups.com:
> > >> > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 1:00:19 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
> > >> > Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> > >> >> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
> > >> >> news:25a8b1ae-462f-495c...@googlegroups.com:
> > >> >> > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 9:34:28 AM UTC-6, Paul S
> > >> >> > Person wrote:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >> Would being blackmailed count? That is, does the payment
> > >> >> >> have to be a something one is given rather than something
> > >> >> >> that is not done to one?
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Yes, it would. The essential element of being a foreign
> > >> >> > agent is acting on behalf of a foreign government;
> > >> >> Not acting is sometimes an act.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Unlike you, it's not so simple.
> > >> >> --
> > >> >> Terry Austin
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even
> > >> >> stupider than Lynn:
> > >> >> https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
> > >> >> (May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United
> > >> >> States illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest
> > >> >> border.)
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Vacation photos from Iceland:
> > >> >> https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
> > >> >
> > >> > Here's an MSNBC clip calling out Carlson's lying on Russian
> > >> > claims of Ukrainian bioweapons.
> > >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqwfbKrU3Eo
> > >> >
> > >> Do you have any evidence that he knows it's untrue? Because if
> > >> he believes it (which seems entirely plausible, it *is* an
> > >> idiot), it's not a lie.
> > >
> > > That's irrelevant. Regardless of whether he believes it or not,
> > > he's spreading Russian disinformation, and acting in Russias
> > > interest.
> > >
> > The issue isn't wheter or not it's true. Quaddie used the word
> > "lying." It's only lying if he *knows* it's not true. If he
> > believes it, it's not a lie, he's just a tool.
> Tucker knows he tells lies. He's said so himself, in interviews:
>
> https://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/media/2021/09/15/tucker-carlson-lies/8336612002/
> > Try to pay attetion. Words matter.
> >
> > (And if one is talking about the legalities of criminal
> > prosecution, intent *does* matter.)
> We're not doing that. We're discussing if he's acting as
> a Russian agent. The bar is a lot lower.
>
> Pt
Since Soviet times the Russian M.O. has been to illuminate whichever troublemakers they could find, almost regardless of the particular brand of trouble they are making. If you are going to apply the standard you are setting out in the case of Tucker Carlson consistently you will end up regarding almost everybody who has a complaint they want to publicise as a Russian agent. I do not believe this sort of general attack on protest would be reasonable, or even wise.

On 15/03/22 21:04, David Johnston wrote:
> On 2022-03-14 9:50 p.m., Titus G wrote:
>> On 15/03/22 16:14, David Johnston wrote:
>>> On 2022-03-14 11:55 a.m., J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 09:00:40 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 9:34:28 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Would being blackmailed count? That is, does the payment have to be a
>>>>>> something one is given rather than something that is not done to one?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, it would. The essential element of being a foreign agent is
>>>>> acting
>>>>> on behalf of a foreign government; why one is doing so, whether for
>>>>> money,
>>>>> due to blackmail, or even quite voluntarily (so evidence of taking
>>>>> directions
>>>>> is enough) is not important.
>>>>
>>>> So you're saying that someone who is acting on behalf of a foreign
>>>> government due to blackmail should be considered a criminal due to
>>>> failure to register as a foreign agent?
>>>>
>>>> That's blaming the victim, and playing into the foreign government's
>>>> hands.
>>>
>>> If you are blackmailed into committing a crime, you are still committing
>>> a crime.
>>
>> The grand old Duke of York
>> He had 12 million quid
>> He gave it to someone he never met
>> For something he never did.
>>
>> Don't mention Bill Clinton, Bill Gates etc, ad infinitum...
>
> Donald Trump
>
> But what the hell does that have to do with anything?

All those featured in Epstein and Maxwell's home videos are prime
candidates to qualify as acting on behalf of a foreign government due to
blackmail.

"pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote in
news:90487cad-2247-4de4-bfb6-93901f44022bn@googlegroups.com:

> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 12:41:36 AM UTC-4, Ninapenda
> Jibini wrote:
>> "pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:fd7d38a2-004d-41d1...@googlegroups.com:
>> > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 2:35:25 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
>> > Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> >> "pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >> news:98bee50f-449c-4f00...@googlegroups.com:
>> >> > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 1:00:19 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
>> >> > Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> >> >> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>> >> >> news:25a8b1ae-462f-495c...@googlegroups.com:
>> >> >> > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 9:34:28 AM UTC-6, Paul S
>> >> >> > Person wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Would being blackmailed count? That is, does the
>> >> >> >> payment have to be a something one is given rather
>> >> >> >> than something that is not done to one?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Yes, it would. The essential element of being a foreign
>> >> >> > agent is acting on behalf of a foreign government;
>> >> >> Not acting is sometimes an act.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Unlike you, it's not so simple.
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Terry Austin
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even
>> >> >> stupider than Lynn:
>> >> >> https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
>> >> >> (May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the
>> >> >> United States illegally is over 132,000 for just the
>> >> >> southwest border.)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Vacation photos from Iceland:
>> >> >> https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
>> >> >
>> >> > Here's an MSNBC clip calling out Carlson's lying on
>> >> > Russian claims of Ukrainian bioweapons.
>> >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqwfbKrU3Eo
>> >> >
>> >> Do you have any evidence that he knows it's untrue? Because
>> >> if he believes it (which seems entirely plausible, it *is*
>> >> an idiot), it's not a lie.
>> >
>> > That's irrelevant. Regardless of whether he believes it or
>> > not, he's spreading Russian disinformation, and acting in
>> > Russias interest.
>> >
>> The issue isn't wheter or not it's true. Quaddie used the word
>> "lying." It's only lying if he *knows* it's not true. If he
>> believes it, it's not a lie, he's just a tool.
>
> Tucker knows he tells lies. He's said so himself, in interviews:
>
> https://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/media/2021/09/15/tu
> cker-carlson-lies/8336612002/

There's a whole raft of credibility problems there, and no evidence
of what the context is. At all.
>
>
>> Try to pay attetion. Words matter.
>>
>> (And if one is talking about the legalities of criminal
>> prosecution, intent *does* matter.)
>
> We're not doing that.

In this particular discussion, yes, we are. Or at least, the grown
ups are.

> We're discussing if he's acting as
> a Russian agent. The bar is a lot lower.
>
Only in your diseased fantasy land. The legal definition is not all
that obscure, no matter how furiously you masturbate over your
instane, violent revenge fantasies.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in
news:sam13h95relhr2qnlur4a3ri52bc9518ec@4ax.com:

> On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 10:07:16 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
> <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 12:41:36 AM UTC-4, Ninapenda
>>Jibini wrote:
>>> "pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:fd7d38a2-004d-41d1...@googlegroups.com:
>>> > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 2:35:25 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
>>> > Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> >> "pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> >> news:98bee50f-449c-4f00...@googlegroups.com:
>>> >> > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 1:00:19 PM UTC-4, Jibini
>>> >> > Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> >> >> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>> >> >> news:25a8b1ae-462f-495c...@googlegroups.com:
>>> >> >> > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 9:34:28 AM UTC-6, Paul S
>>> >> >> > Person wrote:
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> Would being blackmailed count? That is, does the
>>> >> >> >> payment have to be a something one is given rather
>>> >> >> >> than something that is not done to one?
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Yes, it would. The essential element of being a
>>> >> >> > foreign agent is acting on behalf of a foreign
>>> >> >> > government;
>>> >> >> Not acting is sometimes an act.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Unlike you, it's not so simple.
>>> >> >> --
>>> >> >> Terry Austin
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even
>>> >> >> stupider than Lynn:
>>> >> >> https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
>>> >> >> (May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the
>>> >> >> United States illegally is over 132,000 for just the
>>> >> >> southwest border.)
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Vacation photos from Iceland:
>>> >> >> https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Here's an MSNBC clip calling out Carlson's lying on
>>> >> > Russian claims of Ukrainian bioweapons.
>>> >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqwfbKrU3Eo
>>> >> >
>>> >> Do you have any evidence that he knows it's untrue? Because
>>> >> if he believes it (which seems entirely plausible, it *is*
>>> >> an idiot), it's not a lie.
>>> >
>>> > That's irrelevant. Regardless of whether he believes it or
>>> > not, he's spreading Russian disinformation, and acting in
>>> > Russias interest.
>>> >
>>> The issue isn't wheter or not it's true. Quaddie used the word
>>> "lying." It's only lying if he *knows* it's not true. If he
>>> believes it, it's not a lie, he's just a tool.
>>
>>Tucker knows he tells lies. He's said so himself, in interviews:
>>
>>https://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/media/2021/09/15/tu
>>cker-carlson-lies/8336612002/
>>
>>
>>> Try to pay attetion. Words matter.
>>>
>>> (And if one is talking about the legalities of criminal
>>> prosecution, intent *does* matter.)
>>
>>We're not doing that. We're discussing if he's acting as
>>a Russian agent. The bar is a lot lower.
>
> I thought the argument was whether he should be required to
> _register_ as a Russian agent. That gets to legal distincions,
> not philosophical ones.
>
Petey isn't interested in facts, only in his violent revenge
fantasies. Like most lefties.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Andrew McDowell <mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote in
news:2b560fc2-3ca5-4993-9775-eff7b1cffc16n@googlegroups.com:

> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 5:07:19 PM UTC, pete...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 12:41:36 AM UTC-4, Ninapenda
>> Jibini wrote:
>
>> > "pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> > news:fd7d38a2-004d-41d1...@googlegroups.com:
>> > > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 2:35:25 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
>> > > Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> > >> "pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> > >> news:98bee50f-449c-4f00...@googlegroups.com:
>> > >> > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 1:00:19 PM UTC-4, Jibini
>> > >> > Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> > >> >> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>> > >> >> news:25a8b1ae-462f-495c...@googlegroups.com:
>> > >> >> > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 9:34:28 AM UTC-6, Paul S
>> > >> >> > Person wrote:
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >> Would being blackmailed count? That is, does the
>> > >> >> >> payment have to be a something one is given rather
>> > >> >> >> than something that is not done to one?
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > Yes, it would. The essential element of being a
>> > >> >> > foreign agent is acting on behalf of a foreign
>> > >> >> > government;
>> > >> >> Not acting is sometimes an act.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Unlike you, it's not so simple.
>> > >> >> --
>> > >> >> Terry Austin
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even
>> > >> >> stupider than Lynn:
>> > >> >> https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
>> > >> >> (May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the
>> > >> >> United States illegally is over 132,000 for just the
>> > >> >> southwest border.)
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Vacation photos from Iceland:
>> > >> >> https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Here's an MSNBC clip calling out Carlson's lying on
>> > >> > Russian claims of Ukrainian bioweapons.
>> > >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqwfbKrU3Eo
>> > >> >
>> > >> Do you have any evidence that he knows it's untrue?
>> > >> Because if he believes it (which seems entirely plausible,
>> > >> it *is* an idiot), it's not a lie.
>> > >
>> > > That's irrelevant. Regardless of whether he believes it or
>> > > not, he's spreading Russian disinformation, and acting in
>> > > Russias interest.
>> > >
>> > The issue isn't wheter or not it's true. Quaddie used the
>> > word "lying." It's only lying if he *knows* it's not true. If
>> > he believes it, it's not a lie, he's just a tool.
>> Tucker knows he tells lies. He's said so himself, in
>> interviews:
>>
>> https://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/media/2021/09/15/t
>> ucker-car
> lson-lies/8336612002/
>> > Try to pay attetion. Words matter.
>> >
>> > (And if one is talking about the legalities of criminal
>> > prosecution, intent *does* matter.)
>> We're not doing that. We're discussing if he's acting as
>> a Russian agent. The bar is a lot lower.
>>
>> Pt
> Since Soviet times the Russian M.O. has been to illuminate
> whichever troublemakers they could find, almost regardless of
> the particular brand of trouble they are making.

A time honored tradition. For a long time, the Soviets financed
both the US Communist Party and thet KKK.

>If you are
> going to apply the standard you are setting out in the case of
> Tucker Carlson consistently you will end up regarding almost
> everybody who has a complaint they want to publicise as a
> Russian agent. I do not believe this sort of general attack on
> protest would be reasonable, or even wise.
>
Or of any use whatsoever outside of one's revenge fantasies.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in
news:2au03hp1k430sv8k8c1cqcsgcjm8nde688@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 19:11:27 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
> <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 2:35:25 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
>>Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> "pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:98bee50f-449c-4f00...@googlegroups.com:
>>> > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 1:00:19 PM UTC-4, Jibini Kula
>>> > Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> >> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>> >> news:25a8b1ae-462f-495c...@googlegroups.com:
>>> >> > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 9:34:28 AM UTC-6, Paul S
>>> >> > Person wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> Would being blackmailed count? That is, does the payment
>>> >> >> have to be a something one is given rather than
>>> >> >> something that is not done to one?
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Yes, it would. The essential element of being a foreign
>>> >> > agent is acting on behalf of a foreign government;
>>> >> Not acting is sometimes an act.
>>> >>
>>> >> Unlike you, it's not so simple.
>>> >> --
>>> >> Terry Austin
>>> >>
>>> >> Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even
>>> >> stupider than Lynn:
>>> >> https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
>>> >> (May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United
>>> >> States illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest
>>> >> border.)
>>> >>
>>> >> Vacation photos from Iceland:
>>> >> https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
>>> >
>>> > Here's an MSNBC clip calling out Carlson's lying on Russian
>>> > claims of Ukrainian bioweapons.
>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqwfbKrU3Eo
>>> >
>>> Do you have any evidence that he knows it's untrue? Because if
>>> he believes it (which seems entirely plausible, it *is* an
>>> idiot), it's not a lie.
>>
>>That's irrelevant. Regardless of whether he believes it or not,
>>he's spreading Russian disinformation, and acting in Russias
>>interest.
>
> Do you propose to do something about it or are you merely making
> an observation?
>
Is it technically an observation if he only sees it in his own
imagination?

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 12:41:34 PM UTC-6, mcdow...@sky.com wrote:

> If you are going to apply the standard you are setting out in
> the case of Tucker Carlson consistently you will end up
> regarding almost everybody who has a complaint they
> want to publicise as a Russian agent. I do not believe
> this sort of general attack on protest would be reasonable,
> or even wise.

I don't know if this was a fair charge to level against the person
to whom you were replying.

However, on the general point on applying that kind of standard:
certainly, if you want to find the actual Russian agents who are
menacing your country, such an indiscriminate approach is
foolish.

However, if what you want to do is to suppress protest, then,
for example, stirring up public hysteria against Black Lives
Matter on the basis that they're making it more difficult for the
police to fight crime, and so they're clearly working for Moscow
to destroy America... is just the thing. It worked fine and dandy
during the McCarthy era.

John Savard

On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 2:43:19 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:

> Petey isn't interested in facts, only in his violent revenge
> fantasies. Like most lefties.

It's good to hear that I have a lot of company.

John Savard

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:918d7709-c058-48b9-9bfd-5216b34ae07cn@googlegroups.com:

> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 2:43:19 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>
>> Petey isn't interested in facts, only in his violent revenge
>> fantasies. Like most lefties.
>
> It's good to hear that I have a lot of company.
>
Sadly, you do.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 5:21:24 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
> news:918d7709-c058-48b9...@googlegroups.com:
> > On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 2:43:19 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
> > Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> >
> >> Petey isn't interested in facts, only in his violent revenge
> >> fantasies. Like most lefties.
> >
> > It's good to hear that I have a lot of company.
> >
> Sadly, you do.

Speaking of violent revenge fantasies, I was using Google to look
up a model for the future fate of a post-Putin Russia, if the West
had to exert itself to bring that about.

I had thought that perhaps the Morgenthau Plan was a fiction cooked
up by Nazi propagandists... but I was disappointed to learn otherwise.

None the less, even in my plans, while I might want to remove some heavy
industry and high-tech industry from Russia, I would leave enough in there
so that they could earn the money to feed themselves. Having Russians
starve, when most of them aren't even culpable, is unreasonable. Even if
they're not needed as cannon fodder for a war against China.

John Savard

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:09fe809a-3049-44eb-b77c-77629ec4499fn@googlegroups.com:

> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 5:21:24 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
> Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>> news:918d7709-c058-48b9...@googlegroups.com:
>> > On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 2:43:19 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula
>> > Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> >
>> >> Petey isn't interested in facts, only in his violent revenge
>> >> fantasies. Like most lefties.
>> >
>> > It's good to hear that I have a lot of company.
>> >
>> Sadly, you do.
>
> Speaking of violent revenge fantasies, I was using Google to
> look up a model for the future fate of a post-Putin Russia, if
> the West had to exert itself to bring that about.
>
> I had thought that perhaps the Morgenthau Plan was a fiction
> cooked up by Nazi propagandists... but I was disappointed to
> learn otherwise.
>
> None the less, even in my plans, while I might want to remove
> some heavy industry and high-tech industry from Russia, I would
> leave enough in there so that they could earn the money to feed
> themselves. Having Russians starve, when most of them aren't
> even culpable, is unreasonable. Even if they're not needed as
> cannon fodder for a war against China.
>
Excessive requirements for reparations imposed on Germany at the
end of WWI was a major contributor to WWII.

I have zero doubt that the US will, if it can, excatly duplicate
this genocidal mistake.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

On 2022-03-15 1:20 p.m., Titus G wrote:
> On 15/03/22 21:04, David Johnston wrote:
>> On 2022-03-14 9:50 p.m., Titus G wrote:
>>> On 15/03/22 16:14, David Johnston wrote:
>>>> On 2022-03-14 11:55 a.m., J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 09:00:40 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 9:34:28 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would being blackmailed count? That is, does the payment have to be a
>>>>>>> something one is given rather than something that is not done to one?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, it would. The essential element of being a foreign agent is
>>>>>> acting
>>>>>> on behalf of a foreign government; why one is doing so, whether for
>>>>>> money,
>>>>>> due to blackmail, or even quite voluntarily (so evidence of taking
>>>>>> directions
>>>>>> is enough) is not important.
>>>>>
>>>>> So you're saying that someone who is acting on behalf of a foreign
>>>>> government due to blackmail should be considered a criminal due to
>>>>> failure to register as a foreign agent?
>>>>>
>>>>> That's blaming the victim, and playing into the foreign government's
>>>>> hands.
>>>>
>>>> If you are blackmailed into committing a crime, you are still committing
>>>> a crime.
>>>
>>> The grand old Duke of York
>>> He had 12 million quid
>>> He gave it to someone he never met
>>> For something he never did.
>>>
>>> Don't mention Bill Clinton, Bill Gates etc, ad infinitum...
>>
>> Donald Trump
>>
>> But what the hell does that have to do with anything?
>
> All those featured in Epstein and Maxwell's home videos are prime
> candidates to qualify as acting on behalf of a foreign government due to
> blackmail.

The idea that everyone in Epstein's immense circle of acquaintances was
on video molesting his under-age playmates is the height of absurdity
and Clinton and Gates haven't been giving any noticeable support to
foreign powers in the United States anyway. +

David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> schrieb:
> On 2022-03-15 1:20 p.m., Titus G wrote:
>> On 15/03/22 21:04, David Johnston wrote:
>>> On 2022-03-14 9:50 p.m., Titus G wrote:
>>>> On 15/03/22 16:14, David Johnston wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-03-14 11:55 a.m., J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 09:00:40 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 9:34:28 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Would being blackmailed count? That is, does the payment have to be a
>>>>>>>> something one is given rather than something that is not done to one?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, it would. The essential element of being a foreign agent is
>>>>>>> acting
>>>>>>> on behalf of a foreign government; why one is doing so, whether for
>>>>>>> money,
>>>>>>> due to blackmail, or even quite voluntarily (so evidence of taking
>>>>>>> directions
>>>>>>> is enough) is not important.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So you're saying that someone who is acting on behalf of a foreign
>>>>>> government due to blackmail should be considered a criminal due to
>>>>>> failure to register as a foreign agent?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's blaming the victim, and playing into the foreign government's
>>>>>> hands.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are blackmailed into committing a crime, you are still committing
>>>>> a crime.
>>>>
>>>> The grand old Duke of York
>>>> He had 12 million quid
>>>> He gave it to someone he never met
>>>> For something he never did.
>>>>
>>>> Don't mention Bill Clinton, Bill Gates etc, ad infinitum...
>>>
>>> Donald Trump
>>>
>>> But what the hell does that have to do with anything?
>>
>> All those featured in Epstein and Maxwell's home videos are prime
>> candidates to qualify as acting on behalf of a foreign government due to
>> blackmail.
>
> The idea that everyone in Epstein's immense circle of acquaintances was
> on video molesting his under-age playmates is the height of absurdity

Not everybody (probably).

Quite a few: Possibly.

Which ones: That is an interesting quesion.

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote in
news:0e743hp5vp3im3hrfu31inmt8uu9qot5da@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 09:58:39 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>But Ukraine is *certainly* winning the propaganda war, and Putin
>>has been batshit crazy and dangerous for decades.
>>
> Very true - and is there any doubt at all that NATO would be in
> there with bells if Putin didn't have nukes and Ukraine didn't?

Quite a bit of doubt, actually, since many NATO members are notable
for their cowardice and incompetent leadership.
>
> Fact is there were western promises made to Ukraine when she
> gave up her nukes - to what extent have these been honored?
>
IIRC, Russia made those promised as well.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB