On Monday, 6 March 2023 at 16:00:49 UTC, Marc S wrote:
blah blah blah... rubbish deleted.

OK so what do you want me to do in response to months of posts about my so-called “antisemitism”?

Do you want me to spend the next 3 months calling you, Dan and Frank “racists” for your continued aggression towards anyone who doesn’t buy your particular views on the Israeli state?

Do you want me to add “and, of course racists like Frank, Dan and Marc would…..blah blah blah” to every thread about anything?

Because I assure you that’s what’s happening right now.

Dan Koren schrieb am Montag, 6. März 2023 um 14:26:01 UTC+1:
> On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 9:20:18 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
> > Just as a general reminder:
> >
> > Henk, Andy and Herman are antisemites -
> You left me out of this august liszt? What
> did I do? Or not do?!? I ask the question....
You still defend Israel when it comes down to it, but what you said about "Rabies" was antisemitic as well, and this makes you an antisemite.

The thing is, imo you are troubled. It's mindboggling to me that you can't see what you are doing with what you are writing.

> > Take some of their comments about Israel
> > to the IHRA and the IHRA will tell you that
> > these comments are indeed antisemitic.
> One does not need validation by 3rd parties.

Well, that's true, but only if one understands what antisemtism is, how it is defined etc - an understanding in psychology also helps; you mostly go by "feelings", the way you worded things to Herman (not saying everything was wrong), shows that you are not really knowledgeable about this topic (not saying you have absolutely no knowledge, but no "academic" knowledge about antisemtiism - now you will say "I don't need one because I am a Jew and I know it"... well... you still need to able to put your feelings into words; you need to understand antisemitism concretely - and not just the most extreme forms of antisemitic behaviour, but the behaviour that leads to the most extreme forms and how this is related... how demonizing Netanyahu and Chabad is related to the antisemitic incident I posted above, and how you are adding further fuel to fire.). People who are knowledgeable about this topic just handle this differently - that's my experience.

> > It does not matter what I think, it does not
> > matter what 82 year old Frank thinks, or what
> > Henk, Andy and Herman think.
> You left me out of the liszt again? What does
> it mean? Are you implying my opinion matters?
> Or at least at does not dis-matter? That would
> be very high praise indeed for a physicist! ;-)
>
> dk

On Monday, 6 March 2023 at 16:21:55 UTC, Marc S wrote:
>>>rubbish deleted as usual....

OK - so if you want to go on name calling that's what you, Frank and Dan will get back.

Oh - I forgot to say "racists like you, Frank and Dan"

In article <0e488974-8597-41b2-ba87-cac0644d5cd2n@googlegroups.com>,
Andy Evans <performanceandmedia@gmail.com> wrote:
>I have to keep reminding myself that there are people outside this
>forum who have nothing to do with the bullying and garbage that
>goes on here ....

Do note that there are plenty of people *inside* this forum who do
not participate in these topics. Unfortunately, I cannot include
myself, since I've been making posts such as this.... However, it
really is only a few people who pursue these topics.

On Monday, 6 March 2023 at 17:32:44 UTC, Todd M. McComb wrote:
>
> Do note that there are plenty of people *inside* this forum who do
> not participate in these topics. Unfortunately, I cannot include
> myself, since I've been making posts such as this.... However, it
> really is only a few people who pursue these topics.

Thanks Todd. This name calling on the ng has gone on and on and on to the point where I feel like vomiting when I read yet another post accusing whoever of antisemitism. I see no reason why we have to accept this kind of behaviour. It's simply unacceptable. I don't know if the perpetrators think they're being clever about displaying their vast knowledge of what is or isn't in the definition, but the truth is they're all behaving like badly behaved 9 year old kids. Astonishing.

On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 6:50:07 PM UTC+1, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 6 March 2023 at 17:32:44 UTC, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> >
> > Do note that there are plenty of people *inside* this forum who do
> > not participate in these topics. Unfortunately, I cannot include
> > myself, since I've been making posts such as this.... However, it
> > really is only a few people who pursue these topics.
> Thanks Todd. This name calling on the ng has gone on and on and on to the point where I feel like vomiting when I read yet another post accusing whoever of antisemitism. I see no reason why we have to accept this kind of behaviour. It's simply unacceptable. I don't know if the perpetrators think they're being clever about displaying their vast knowledge of what is or isn't in the definition, but the truth is they're all behaving like badly behaved 9 year old kids. Astonishing.

The main problem is that these people have more time to carpet-post their crap than people who don't post crap.
So in effect RMCR is getting overwhelmed by crap, which makes Rational Frank's 'post something productive' completely useless.
RMCR hasn't got a chance.

In article <79c204ec-d5bd-40da-865c-43d33e25c437n@googlegroups.com>,
Andy Evans <performanceandmedia@gmail.com> wrote:
>I see no reason why we have to accept this kind of behaviour.

I'm not actually sure what accepting it looks like versus not
accepting it, but we don't have to take these comments seriously....

>I don't know if the perpetrators think they're being clever ....

"Marc S" definitely thinks he's being clever. And it did take him
a few tries to get a really good troll going here, but he stuck
with it, and now look. So in that sense, he's a very successful
person/bot, and I'm sure he's proud.

On Monday, 6 March 2023 at 17:58:25 UTC, Herman wrote:
> The main problem is that these people have more time to carpet-post their crap than people who don't post crap.
> So in effect RMCR is getting overwhelmed by crap, which makes Rational Frank's 'post something productive' completely useless.
> RMCR hasn't got a chance.

When the reality is surreal, one escape is into the surreal itself. This happened at the end of WW1 when surrealism flourished in response to the atrocities that had been committed by the so-called bastions of European culture.

So I'm all for the "acte gratuite" on this ng. Utterly unmotivated behaviour that defies normal explanations. No point in being sensible any more.....

Or to put it in engineering terms, rubbish in, rubbish out. Who cares any more.

On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 7:21:27 PM UTC+1, Andy Evans wrote:
>
> Or to put it in engineering terms, rubbish in, rubbish out. Who cares any more.

well, I got things to do. There are a couple of people out here I like, but I'm not sure I should be spending too much time getting rubbished and rubbishing back.

On Monday, 6 March 2023 at 18:31:52 UTC, Herman wrote:
> On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 7:21:27 PM UTC+1, Andy Evans wrote:
> > There are a couple of people out here I like, but I'm not sure I should be spending too much time getting rubbished and rubbishing back.

I'm sure you're right. There are decent people on this ng including yourself, Melmoth and gggg despite the names you all get called.

On 3/6/2023 9:36 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 6 March 2023 at 14:27:40 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:
>
>> Get a grip.
>
> You, Marc S and Dan Koren can individually and collectively fuck off. I've had months and months of insults and I'm done with all three of you.
>
> I was never an antisemite but I can assure you that your collective aggressive name calling makes me sorely tempted. I have to keep reminding myself that there are people outside this forum who >have nothing to do with the bullying and garbage that goes on here, and will keep on going on here because none of you are going to learn, open your eyes or change.

Hmm. Interesting that you lump me in with Dan and Marc S (whose posts I only read accidentally). As far as I know, I have never called you a name, aggressively or otherwise. I don't even have negative feelings towards you, despite our disagreements on many things. You know well that you have on more than one occasion flipped your lid at me and subsequently apologized. I don't know that I care if you do it again.

When I said "Get a grip" I meant it for your benefit. I recommend you quit RMCR, if what you see here upsets you so much. Why beat your head against a wall? Or at least, simply stop reading the posts that upset you.

On Monday, 6 March 2023 at 20:34:57 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> When I said "Get a grip" I meant it for your benefit. I recommend you quit RMCR, if what you see here upsets you so much. Why beat your head against a wall? Or at least, simply stop reading the posts that upset you.

People who call me names are never going to make me quit a newsgroup. Not going to happen.

If you want to continue good relations, stop calling people antisemitic and stop contributing to posts about antisemitism. People have had enough.

As you say, "I mean it for your benefit". Make the world a happier place.

On Monday, 6 March 2023 at 20:44:36 UTC, HT wrote:

> Henk
> > PS I hope this will be me last post on the subject. I'm tired of it. Too many people I like are involved in a dirty fight.

Thanks for reaching out, Henk. I'm sick of all the name calling. I never want to see the word "antisemite" again on this ng. It's time all the name calling stopped. I'm a very easy going and tolerant guy but there are limits. And I hate bullies in any shape or form.

But thanks again. I appreciate it.

On 3/6/2023 3:50 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 6 March 2023 at 20:34:57 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:
>>
>> When I said "Get a grip" I meant it for your benefit. I recommend you quit RMCR, if what you see here upsets you so much. Why beat your head against a wall? Or at least, simply stop reading the posts that upset you.
>
> People who call me names are never going to make me quit a newsgroup. Not going to happen.
>
> If you want to continue good relations, stop calling people antisemitic and stop contributing to posts about antisemitism. People have had enough.
>

Who did I call antisemitic?

> As you say, "I mean it for your benefit". Make the world a happier place.

I.E., make you happier. Reduce YOUR boredom, boredom, boredom....

I taught my kids (or tried) not to say things like, "That's disgusting," or I suppose, "That's boring" and the like because those are universal statements that are true for the speaker, but not necessarily anyone else. In fact, it's sort of insulting to those who disagree as it doesn't allow for reasonable disagreement. It seems rather juvenile to tell people to stop talking about stuff that you find boring. Better rail at them to stop discussing non-musical topics.

On 3/6/2023 3:55 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 6 March 2023 at 20:44:36 UTC, HT wrote:
>
>> Henk
>>> PS I hope this will be me last post on the subject. I'm tired of it. Too many people I like are involved in a dirty fight.
>
> Thanks for reaching out, Henk. I'm sick of all the name calling. I never want to see the word "antisemite" again on this ng.

Good luck with that. Why would anyone care that you want that? This isn't your personal space.

It's time all the name calling stopped.

You accused me of calling you an antisemite. I did not. Considering how personally offended people get being called antisemites, I consider this name-calling by you.

>I'm a very easy going and tolerant guy but there are limits.

Which you comfortable setting.

And I hate bullies in any shape or form.

Bully for you.

>
> But thanks again. I appreciate it.

On Monday, 6 March 2023 at 23:00:10 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:

> You accused me of calling you an antisemite. I did not. Considering how personally offended people get being called antisemites, I consider this name-calling by you........

What was that word again... anti something? Does it mean anything? Should I know about it?

On Tuesday, 7 March 2023 at 04:50:07 UTC+11, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 6 March 2023 at 17:32:44 UTC, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> >
> > Do note that there are plenty of people *inside* this forum who do
> > not participate in these topics. Unfortunately, I cannot include
> > myself, since I've been making posts such as this.... However, it
> > really is only a few people who pursue these topics.
> Thanks Todd. This name calling on the ng has gone on and on and on to the point where I feel like vomiting when I read yet another post accusing whoever of antisemitism. I see no reason why we have to accept this kind of behaviour. It's simply unacceptable. I don't know if the perpetrators think they're being clever about displaying their vast knowledge of what is or isn't in the definition, but the truth is they're all behaving like badly behaved 9 year old kids. Astonishing.

Andy, if the village idiot and chief clown keeps calling you names, just remember to take your own advice, and ignore him/her. Eventually they might get professional psychological help, but I wouldn't necessarily hold my breath. But it is clear to me that they need help badly.

Ray Hall, Taree

On Tuesday, 7 March 2023 at 00:17:37 UTC, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> Andy, if the village idiot and chief clown keeps calling you names, just remember to take your own advice, and ignore him/her. Eventually they might get professional psychological help, but I wouldn't necessarily hold my breath. But it is clear to me that they need help badly.
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

Hello Ray! Always good to hear from you. You're probably right.

But this endless name calling has gone on for months and I just want to make it perfectly clear that it needs to stop. It's not acceptable and I won't accept it. Enough.

On 3/6/2023 6:55 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 6 March 2023 at 23:00:10 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:
>
>> You accused me of calling you an antisemite. I did not. Considering how personally offended people get being called antisemites, I consider this name-calling by you........
>
> What was that word again... anti something? Does it mean anything? Should I know about it?

Show me where I called you an antisemite, before I start calling you a liar.

On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 4:29:44 PM UTC-8, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Tuesday, 7 March 2023 at 00:17:37 UTC, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Andy, if the village idiot and chief clown keeps calling you names,
> > just remember to take your own advice, and ignore him/her.
> > Eventually they might get professional psychological help,
> > but I wouldn't necessarily hold my breath. But it is clear
> > to me that they need help badly.
>
> Hello Ray! Always good to hear from you. You're probably right.
>
> But this endless name calling has gone on for months and
> I just want to make it perfectly clear that it needs to stop.
> It's not acceptable and I won't accept it. Enough.

Then why do you object to having the group moderated?

You sound like a kid who keeps complaing about a fever
and a sore throat while refusing to take cough syrup.

dk

On Tuesday, 7 March 2023 at 03:47:29 UTC, Dan Koren wrote:

> > But this endless name calling has gone on for months and
> > I just want to make it perfectly clear that it needs to stop.
> > It's not acceptable and I won't accept it. Enough.
> Then why do you object to having the group moderated?
> dk

I never said anything one way or the other about the group being moderated.

Moderate yourself and the question won't arise.

On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 8:05:54 PM UTC-8, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Tuesday, 7 March 2023 at 03:47:29 UTC, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> > > But this endless name calling has gone on for months and
> > > I just want to make it perfectly clear that it needs to stop.
> > > It's not acceptable and I won't accept it. Enough.
> >
> > Then why do you object to having the group moderated?
>
> I never said anything one way or the other about the group being moderated.

Then say something.

> Moderate yourself and the question won't arise.

Nope. We can either have a moderated group based
on an actionable enforceable agreement, or one that
is free in every sense of the word. We can't have it
both ways. We all have different boundaries and
different notions of what is acceptable behavior
and what isn't. Show me one instance in 5000
years of history where self moderation and/or
self restraint solved a single conflict -- and I
will show you another planet.

dk

On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 5:05:54 AM UTC+1, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Tuesday, 7 March 2023 at 03:47:29 UTC, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> > > But this endless name calling has gone on for months and
> > > I just want to make it perfectly clear that it needs to stop.
> > > It's not acceptable and I won't accept it. Enough.
> > Then why do you object to having the group moderated?
> > dk
>
> I never said anything one way or the other about the group being moderated.
>
> Moderate yourself and the question won't arise.

These DK questions are 100% disingenuous.
He knows RMCR is per definition unmoderated, so it'll never happen.
And he'll be able to continue till he's the last man standing.

On Tuesday, 7 March 2023 at 06:27:04 UTC, Herman wrote:

> These DK questions are 100% disingenuous.
> He knows RMCR is per definition unmoderated, so it'll never happen.
> And he'll be able to continue till he's the last man standing.

That sounds about right to me. So looks like the name calling continues.........

On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 10:27:04 PM UTC-8, Herman wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 5:05:54 AM UTC+1, Andy Evans wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 7 March 2023 at 03:47:29 UTC, Dan Koren wrote:
> >
> > > > But this endless name calling has gone on for months and
> > > > I just want to make it perfectly clear that it needs to stop.
> > > > It's not acceptable and I won't accept it. Enough.
> > > Then why do you object to having the group moderated?
> >
> > I never said anything one way or the other about the group being moderated.
> >
> > Moderate yourself and the question won't arise.
>
> These DK questions are 100% disingenuous.
> He knows RMCR is per definition unmoderated,

There is no "definition" that makes RMCR
unmoderated or unmoderable. Why don't
you stop spreading nonsense and hate?

> so it'll never happen.

It can happen as soon as we draft a
plan and take a vote. This isn't rocket
science.

dk