On 11/17/2021 6:47 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <15d5ece4-1ce9-4aa3-9415-5ffec3e894efn@googlegroups.com>,
> Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> moviePig
>>>> Ed Stasiak
>>>>
>>>> Rittenhouse was trying to put out a fire in a dumpster that Rosenbaum
>>>> had started and was trying to push into a gas station when he was
>>>> chased down, cornered and violently attacked by Rosenbaum.
>>>>
>>>> How the fuck is that “picking a fight”?
>>>
>>> For the record (if anyone cares) I make no comment on events at the
>>> riot, but only on Rittenhouse's being there, armed, in the first place.
>>
>> So Rittenhouse simply being there is "picking a fight" but BLM/ANTIFA
>> burn, looting and murderously attacking people is "mostly peaceful
>> protesting".
>>
>> Got it...
>
> Yes, Pig earlier decreed that we should just mind our own business when
> a mob of thugs descend on our cities, loot, trash, and burn them, and
> violently assault anyone who gets in their way.

It sounds like you're shitheaded enough to believe we should just "mind
our or own business" when you try and insurrect a govt. entity too. I
realize, of course, you lack the balls to discuss such a topic.

TomBenton@agent.com wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Nov 2021 23:58:09 -0600, trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
>> On 11/15/2021 6:18 PM, EGK wrote:
>>> Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>> KENOSHA, Wis. � The judge at Kyle Rittenhouse�s murder trial on Monday
>>>> dismissed a count of possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under
>>>> 18, a misdemeanor that had appeared to be among the likeliest of the
>>>> charges to net a conviction for prosecutors.
>>>>
>>>> So the only charge I figured Rittenhouse might get convicted for, was
>>>> just thrown out the window by the judge.
>>>
>>> All depends on whether the jury actually listens to the evidence and
>>> instructions.
>>
>>Or if the jury thinks murderers are assholes who belong in prison.
>
>The issue isn't what they think of him but what the state has proven.
>The juries for the Casey Anthony and OJ trials may have thought the
>accused were murders who belong in prison but didn't think the state
>proved it beyond a reasonable doubt.

Actually, in the OJ trials, they knew he did it but wanted to "stick it to
the man". I guess we would call it "social justice" today.

--
Let's go Brandon!

On 11/18/2021 7:07 AM, trotsky wrote:
> On 11/17/2021 9:54 PM, moviePig wrote:
>> On 11/17/2021 7:47 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <15d5ece4-1ce9-4aa3-9415-5ffec3e894efn@googlegroups.com>,
>>>   Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> moviePig
>>>>>> Ed Stasiak
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rittenhouse was trying to put out a fire in a dumpster that Rosenbaum
>>>>>> had started and was trying to push into a gas station when he was
>>>>>> chased down, cornered and violently attacked by Rosenbaum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How the fuck is that “picking a fight”?
>>>>>
>>>>> For the record (if anyone cares) I make no comment on events at the
>>>>> riot, but only on Rittenhouse's being there, armed, in the first
>>>>> place.
>>>>
>>>> So Rittenhouse simply being there is "picking a fight" but BLM/ANTIFA
>>>> burn, looting and murderously attacking people is "mostly peaceful
>>>> protesting".
>>>>
>>>> Got it...
>>>
>>> Yes, Pig earlier decreed that we should just mind our own business when
>>> a mob of thugs descend on our cities, loot, trash, and burn them, and
>>> violently assault anyone who gets in their way.
>>
>> Only after you said that blacks should be deported along with Latinos.
>
>
> Derpshit said that?  What's next, insurrect the govt. so they can bring
> back slavery?

He said Jan. 6 should be a national holiday, celebrated in blackface...

On 11/18/2021 9:27 AM, moviePig wrote:
> On 11/18/2021 7:07 AM, trotsky wrote:
>> On 11/17/2021 9:54 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>> On 11/17/2021 7:47 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>> In article <15d5ece4-1ce9-4aa3-9415-5ffec3e894efn@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>   Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> moviePig
>>>>>>> Ed Stasiak
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rittenhouse was trying to put out a fire in a dumpster that
>>>>>>> Rosenbaum
>>>>>>> had started and was trying to push into a gas station when he was
>>>>>>> chased down, cornered and violently attacked by Rosenbaum.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How the fuck is that “picking a fight”?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the record (if anyone cares) I make no comment on events at the
>>>>>> riot, but only on Rittenhouse's being there, armed, in the first
>>>>>> place.
>>>>>
>>>>> So Rittenhouse simply being there is "picking a fight" but BLM/ANTIFA
>>>>> burn, looting and murderously attacking people is "mostly peaceful
>>>>> protesting".
>>>>>
>>>>> Got it...
>>>>
>>>> Yes, Pig earlier decreed that we should just mind our own business when
>>>> a mob of thugs descend on our cities, loot, trash, and burn them, and
>>>> violently assault anyone who gets in their way.
>>>
>>> Only after you said that blacks should be deported along with Latinos.
>>
>>
>> Derpshit said that?  What's next, insurrect the govt. so they can
>> bring back slavery?
>
> He said Jan. 6 should be a national holiday, celebrated in blackface...

Ironically he primarily has egg on his face.

On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 12:58:40 -0500, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
wrote:

>>I don't agree with you. To me it seems clear he was intentionally
>>picking a fight. Which is something he LEGALLY has the right to do but
>>99.99999% of decent moral people (who also have that right) choose not
>>to.
>
>That's been disproven.

What has been disproven?
(1) That he cross a state line armed in the expectation of trouble or
(2) That he accidentally went to Kenosha?

I think we can take it as a given that with very few carefully limited
exceptions a US citizen has the right to go anywhere in the US
carrying whatever equipment he/she is legally allowed to posess to
bring with him/her.

For instance if police officers apprehended somebody carrying a jerry
can of gasoline at a fire one would hope they would have the sense to
make an arrest even if said person was subsequently released without
charges.

Similarly one would HOPE police would pull over the lady I personally
saw at the filling station in a minivan (two years ago just before the
first Covid lockdown) with 3 children in child car seats and no fewer
than 4 'jerry cans' one of which I saw her filling at the pumps) in
the back section of her mini-van.

Naturally she had multiple "baby on board" stickers on her back
window.....(I say again, I was filling my tank at the pump immediately
behind her and wouldn't have believed it had I not seen it with my own
eyes.) In my world this is called "one rear end collision away from a
tragedy" - definitely legal but equally definitely remarkably bad
judgment!

(In the case of firearms I have strong reservations about this but I
don't think it's reasonably disputable that he/she has a right to go
to where he chose - for instance I don't think I'd want to be in
Sunday services with a group whose weapons would outfit an infantry
company but unless there are specific laws I am unaware of that's
legal in all or nearly all states)

On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 02:30:12 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>Wed, 17 Nov 2021 16:23:56 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>:
>
>>>Ahem
>
>>>Greenwich had a highly-accurate clock. This was not coincidental as they
>>>were already key for navigation purposes with respect to latitude.
>
>>No one could possibly visit the present day Greenwich observatory and
>>not know that in the 17th - 19th century they were world leaders on
>>that. But ahem yourself - you said that 'with respect to latitude'
>>required accurate clocks. I'm going to assume you misspoke yourself
>>and meant longitude.
>
>I meant latitude. I'm assuming Greenwich helped with star charts.

Hmm. OK yes I would expect an observatory particularly in the post
renaissance early modern era (which I think fairly describes 1675 when
the observatory was built) to be interested in star charts
particularly in the interests of assisting navigation in the ships of
an important naval power who was in the midst of creating a colonial
expire in the Caribbean, eastern North America and elsewhere

Bear in mind that when Sir Francis Drake seized the Spanish bullion
fleet he chose his latitude (which turned out to be a correct guess
based on where he expected the Spanish fleet to be) then sailed
directly east to where he correctly guessed their fleet would be
sailing. Before longitude was determined (roughly 250 years after
Drake) that was the best they had and Drake was considered to be a
superior navigator.

(snip)
>>Yes though "standard time" and the division of the world into time
>>zones was a Canadian invention.
>
>Sandford Fleming! Although he was born in Scotland.

As were Canada's first two prime ministers. Can't remember when the
Canadian government purchased the house Sir John A Macdonald was born
in (1815) but it was in the post WW2 era.

On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 23:03:41 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
wrote:

>His "crime" is that, for probably infantile motives, he embarked on a
>mission to make a bad situation worse. My concern isn't that he won't
>be punished for it, or even that he'll ever consider doing it again. My
>concern is that infantile behavior is contagious.

In other words you are concerned about the likely backlash should he
be found not guilty on all counts.

There have been numerous cases in US history when rioting occured
after unpopular court verdicts.

That said convicting a man simply to avoid a riot is the definition of
'mob rule'

On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 23:07:38 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
wrote:

>
>If he hadn't been armed, he might well have stayed home. Meanwhile, I
>don't know whether Rosenbaum saw Rittenhouse was armed, but it seems
>relevant to any such speculation...

I would think that would be obvious given that all pretence of self
defence goes out the window when one aims a firearm (as Rosenbaum
apparently DID do) at Rittenhouse. And rightly or wrongly it now seems
clear who was faster on the draw.

On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 23:13:31 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
wrote:

>On 11/17/2021 9:01 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 10:54:05 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/17/2021 6:26 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 16 Nov 2021 14:27:27 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hell, I'm personally "soft" enough that I'd likely cut Rittenhouse some
>>>>> slack just for being a garden variety 'asshole teenager'. But, afaics,
>>>>> complete forgiveness (and, make no mistake, he *is* culpable) would be
>>>>> about as socially disastrous as the electric chair.
>>>>
>>>> I would agree with you IN FACT on all those points, but whether he is
>>>> IN LAW is the $64,000 question and why we pay judges fancy salaries to
>>>> distinguish.
>>>>
>>>> There I'm not at all sure and don't pretend to have all the facts.
>>>
>>> He's likely guilty of some weapons charge or other that would -- in
>>> isolation -- earn him a slap on the wrist. But someone *died*, who
>>> wouldn't have died but for Rittenhouse's "minor infraction", and our
>>> legal system traditionally penalizes result rather than intent. Plus,
>>> look at the various very real and consequential "messages" that'll be
>>> dispatched by any verdict whatsoever. A "socially responsible" judge
>>> might find a way to extend this trial until the public loses interest...
>>
>> He's arguing that despite much provocation he DIDN'T open fire and
>> only fired when his victim's weapon was first aimed at him and that
>> therefore it's self-defence.
>
>I can't rule that out ...especially since I'd expect that, in those
>moments, he was already regretting a few of his earlier decisions, and
>thus not disposed to keep raising the ante.
>
>
>> If only the evidence presented in this newsgroup had been admitted I'd
>> agree he'd made that case.
>>
>> I would however not want to live in a world where one's liberty
>> depended on what people said about you on rec.arts.tv!
>
>Indeed, abandon all hope ye who enter there...

Au contraire - one of the reasons I've been coming here for 20+ years
is in the hope of learning new things. Even if the poster is an
obnoxious idiot (EvpuN V'z gnyxvat nobhg lbh!) they might well post a
useful link as the culprit in my ROT13 has done several times even if
the link isn't making the case the poster meant it!

(Nf gur yvaxf EvpuN unf cbfgrq bsgra unir qbar!)

On 11/18/2021 6:45 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 23:03:41 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
> wrote:
>
>> His "crime" is that, for probably infantile motives, he embarked on a
>> mission to make a bad situation worse. My concern isn't that he won't
>> be punished for it, or even that he'll ever consider doing it again. My
>> concern is that infantile behavior is contagious.
>
> In other words you are concerned about the likely backlash should he
> be found not guilty on all counts.
>
> There have been numerous cases in US history when rioting occured
> after unpopular court verdicts.
>
> That said convicting a man simply to avoid a riot is the definition of
> 'mob rule'.

If it matters, I'm also concerned about a 'NOT guilty' backlash...

On 11/18/2021 10:14 PM, moviePig wrote:
> On 11/18/2021 6:45 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 23:03:41 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> His "crime" is that, for probably infantile motives, he embarked on a
>>> mission to make a bad situation worse.  My concern isn't that he won't
>>> be punished for it, or even that he'll ever consider doing it again.  My
>>> concern is that infantile behavior is contagious.
>>
>> In other words you are concerned about the likely backlash should he
>> be found not guilty on all counts.
>>
>> There have been numerous cases in US history when rioting occured
>> after unpopular court verdicts.
>>
>> That said convicting a man simply to avoid a riot is the definition of
>> 'mob rule'.
>
> If it matters, I'm also concerned about a 'NOT guilty' backlash...

(Oops, the obvious typo...)

On 11/18/2021 6:47 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 23:07:38 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> If he hadn't been armed, he might well have stayed home. Meanwhile, I
>> don't know whether Rosenbaum saw Rittenhouse was armed, but it seems
>> relevant to any such speculation...
>
> I would think that would be obvious given that all pretence of self
> defence goes out the window when one aims a firearm (as Rosenbaum
> apparently DID do) at Rittenhouse. And rightly or wrongly it now seems
> clear who was faster on the draw.

"Faster on the draw" isn't all it's cracked up to be...
-Alec Baldwin

On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 10:27:50 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
wrote:

>He said Jan. 6 should be a national holiday, celebrated in blackface...

Who if anybody actually said THAT?!?

On 11/18/2021 9:14 PM, moviePig wrote:
> On 11/18/2021 6:45 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 23:03:41 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> His "crime" is that, for probably infantile motives, he embarked on a
>>> mission to make a bad situation worse.  My concern isn't that he won't
>>> be punished for it, or even that he'll ever consider doing it again.  My
>>> concern is that infantile behavior is contagious.
>>
>> In other words you are concerned about the likely backlash should he
>> be found not guilty on all counts.
>>
>> There have been numerous cases in US history when rioting occured
>> after unpopular court verdicts.
>>
>> That said convicting a man simply to avoid a riot is the definition of
>> 'mob rule'.
>
> If it matters, I'm also concerned about a 'NOT guilty' backlash...

You should be, we saw something similar with Rodney King.

On 11/19/2021 12:20 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 10:27:50 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
> wrote:
>
>> He said Jan. 6 should be a national holiday, celebrated in blackface...
>
> Who if anybody actually said THAT?!?

BTR said it, in front of witnesses!

At least, he did in my fantasy world ...which I report as though fact,
to balance BTR's ongoing reports of various bullshit *I* never said.

On 11/19/2021 3:30 AM, trotsky wrote:
> On 11/18/2021 9:14 PM, moviePig wrote:
>> On 11/18/2021 6:45 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>> On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 23:03:41 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> His "crime" is that, for probably infantile motives, he embarked on a
>>>> mission to make a bad situation worse.  My concern isn't that he won't
>>>> be punished for it, or even that he'll ever consider doing it
>>>> again.  My
>>>> concern is that infantile behavior is contagious.
>>>
>>> In other words you are concerned about the likely backlash should he
>>> be found not guilty on all counts.
>>>
>>> There have been numerous cases in US history when rioting occured
>>> after unpopular court verdicts.
>>>
>>> That said convicting a man simply to avoid a riot is the definition of
>>> 'mob rule'.
>>
>> If it matters, I'm also concerned about a 'NOT guilty' backlash...
>
>
> You should be, we saw something similar with Rodney King.

Yes, but I mis-typed. To clarify: I think *either* verdict perilous.

However, I suppose *everyone's* recall those earlier events may help...

On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 22:31:05 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
wrote:

>"Faster on the draw" isn't all it's cracked up to be...
> -Alec Baldwin

Obviously that's a fake quote - no one suggests that Baldwin feared
return fire in any way.

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 22:31:05 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

>>"Faster on the draw" isn't all it's cracked up to be...
>> -Alec Baldwin

>Obviously that's a fake quote - no one suggests that Baldwin feared
>return fire in any way.

If moviePig wrote it, it would have to be.

On 11/19/2021 2:37 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 22:31:05 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
> wrote:
>
>> "Faster on the draw" isn't all it's cracked up to be...
>> -Alec Baldwin
>
> Obviously that's a fake quote - no one suggests that Baldwin feared
> return fire in any way.

Yeah, it was supposed to be a joke ... albeit perhaps premature.
(Baldwin was allegedly smoothing his draw.)