On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 7:13:52 PM UTC-7, Pluted Pup wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Sep 2022 14:18:52 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> (in article<b940a7e7-310b-40cf...@googlegroups.com>):
> > On Sunday, September 4, 2022 at 7:47:44 PM UTC-7, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > On 8/22/22 3:54 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 10:41:33 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 7/27/22 5:17 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > > > On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 18:26:38 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And tend to assume that most in 2022 that throw those words about know
> > > > > > almost nothing about Mussolini, Franco or Hitler (e.g. the genuine
> > > > > > fascists) For them I mostly say "go read Homage to Catalonia!" to
> > > > > > educate themselves about fascism - that is the real thing not the
> > > > > > F-bomb they so freely throw about.
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you referring to how Orwell's Homage To Catalonia was branded
> > > > > as fascist when it was new, resulting in it's poor distribution?
> > > > > It's at the library so it hasn't been banned yet.
> > > >
> > > > Nope I was saying Homage to Catalonia was a very good way to learn
> > > > more about what GENUINE Fascists were like as opposed to the modern
> > > > COUNTERFEIT kind where the word basically means "anybody I disagree
> > > > with". What Orwell was dealing with in Spain were the real article -
> > > > nothing phony about them - real honest to God nasty Fascists.
> > > >
> > > > My hope was of course that anybody who actually read the book would
> > > > tend to throw the word around less as a random epithet
> > > Orwell said clearly in his book that he and his militia, the POUM,
> > > were called fascists and were put on the death list, and he was nearly
> > > killed on account of it, and his book was boycotted likewise. What
> > > was in the book that would lead readers not to use the death threat
> > > "fascist" other than that? I recall most of the book is about
> > > anti-fascists attacking people.
> >
> > They weren't "his militia". They were a left-wing party in league with
> > the organization he belonged to, the Independent Labour Party.
> Orwell was in a militia, the militia he was in was his
> militia.

You're a fucking doofus, and your "crypto" on this topic is laughable.
The POUM was a "Trotskyist" left-wing party, which Orwell had been sent
to aid as part of his role with the ILP.

On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 7:09:31 PM UTC-7, Pluted Pup wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 15:14:30 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> (in article<f324dbc0-0afc-432d...@googlegroups.com>):
> > On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 1:52:13 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 3:59:38 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-7, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > On 9/6/22 1:14 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > > > On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 22:35:45 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Orwell and POUM were anti-fascists but were labelled as fascists by
> > > > > > > other anti-fascists and condemned to death by these other anti-fascists.
> > > > > > > You find that hard to believe? Homage to Catalonia clearly describes it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Being somewhat conservative I wouldn't go along with Orwell's ideas on
> > > > > > > > socialism but no question he's extremely solid on terminology and what
> > > > > > > > is and is not Fascism. He made it quite clear that Big Brother and
> > > > > > > > Ingsoc was definitely totalitarian but not fascistic.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nope - hard to believe at all - especially since unlike so many I
> > > > > > > have< read the book.
> > > > > You completely ignored the dramatic end of the book, where Orwell
> > > > > escaped from the death squads since his militia the POUM was outlawed as
> > > > > a fascist 5th column movement. So go ahead and deny that the POUM
> > > > > were not called fascist, I and others have read Homage to Catalonia,
> > > > > a book, a person, a group described as fascist by the Communist Party.
> > > > > But thanks for reminding me to re-read the book.
> > > > So this is really... rote "anti-Communist" garbage, rather than what it seems to be?
> > > > Hmm.
> > > Interestingly, this "London Bureau" confederation of leftist parties had an influence on the reconstituted Socialist International
> > > in the later 20th century.
> > > "I'm not interested."
> > > I see.
> >
> > You didn't really have a difficulty telling them apart from Francoites, you know.
> > As the book actually puts it, there was an unfortunate internecine strife between them and the PCE.
> > "What about La Pasionaria?"
> > She was a member of the PCE.
> The Communists' (PCE) La Pasionaria also attacked El Campesino
> and he was imprisoned when he went to the Soviet Union.
>
> from the book: Life And Death in Society Russia, by El
> Campesino

Damn, dude, you must really hate Latinos.
("La Pasionaria was Spanish. She was such a huge celebrity, and her PC utterances were so strident, that you could never call her on anything.")

On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 1:08:05 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 7:09:31 PM UTC-7, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 15:14:30 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> > (in article<f324dbc0-0afc-432d...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 1:52:13 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 3:59:38 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-7, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > > On 9/6/22 1:14 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > > > > On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 22:35:45 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Orwell and POUM were anti-fascists but were labelled as fascists by
> > > > > > > > other anti-fascists and condemned to death by these other anti-fascists.
> > > > > > > > You find that hard to believe? Homage to Catalonia clearly describes it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Being somewhat conservative I wouldn't go along with Orwell's ideas on
> > > > > > > > > socialism but no question he's extremely solid on terminology and what
> > > > > > > > > is and is not Fascism. He made it quite clear that Big Brother and
> > > > > > > > > Ingsoc was definitely totalitarian but not fascistic.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nope - hard to believe at all - especially since unlike so many I
> > > > > > > > have< read the book.
> > > > > > You completely ignored the dramatic end of the book, where Orwell
> > > > > > escaped from the death squads since his militia the POUM was outlawed as
> > > > > > a fascist 5th column movement. So go ahead and deny that the POUM
> > > > > > were not called fascist, I and others have read Homage to Catalonia,
> > > > > > a book, a person, a group described as fascist by the Communist Party.
> > > > > > But thanks for reminding me to re-read the book.
> > > > > So this is really... rote "anti-Communist" garbage, rather than what it seems to be?
> > > > > Hmm.
> > > > Interestingly, this "London Bureau" confederation of leftist parties had an influence on the reconstituted Socialist International
> > > > in the later 20th century.
> > > > "I'm not interested."
> > > > I see.
> > >
> > > You didn't really have a difficulty telling them apart from Francoites, you know.
> > > As the book actually puts it, there was an unfortunate internecine strife between them and the PCE.
> > > "What about La Pasionaria?"
> > > She was a member of the PCE.
> > The Communists' (PCE) La Pasionaria also attacked El Campesino
> > and he was imprisoned when he went to the Soviet Union.
> >
> > from the book: Life And Death in Society Russia, by El
> > Campesino
> Damn, dude, you must really hate Latinos.
> ("La Pasionaria was Spanish. She was such a huge celebrity, and her PC utterances were so strident, that you could never call her on anything.")

*Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me, though, so maybe I don't know enough here.

On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 1:53:32 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 1:08:05 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 7:09:31 PM UTC-7, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 15:14:30 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> > > (in article<f324dbc0-0afc-432d...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > > On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 1:52:13 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 3:59:38 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-7, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > > > On 9/6/22 1:14 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 22:35:45 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Orwell and POUM were anti-fascists but were labelled as fascists by
> > > > > > > > > other anti-fascists and condemned to death by these other anti-fascists.
> > > > > > > > > You find that hard to believe? Homage to Catalonia clearly describes it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Being somewhat conservative I wouldn't go along with Orwell's ideas on
> > > > > > > > > > socialism but no question he's extremely solid on terminology and what
> > > > > > > > > > is and is not Fascism. He made it quite clear that Big Brother and
> > > > > > > > > > Ingsoc was definitely totalitarian but not fascistic.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Nope - hard to believe at all - especially since unlike so many I
> > > > > > > > > have< read the book.
> > > > > > > You completely ignored the dramatic end of the book, where Orwell
> > > > > > > escaped from the death squads since his militia the POUM was outlawed as
> > > > > > > a fascist 5th column movement. So go ahead and deny that the POUM
> > > > > > > were not called fascist, I and others have read Homage to Catalonia,
> > > > > > > a book, a person, a group described as fascist by the Communist Party.
> > > > > > > But thanks for reminding me to re-read the book.
> > > > > > So this is really... rote "anti-Communist" garbage, rather than what it seems to be?
> > > > > > Hmm.
> > > > > Interestingly, this "London Bureau" confederation of leftist parties had an influence on the reconstituted Socialist International
> > > > > in the later 20th century.
> > > > > "I'm not interested."
> > > > > I see.
> > > >
> > > > You didn't really have a difficulty telling them apart from Francoites, you know.
> > > > As the book actually puts it, there was an unfortunate internecine strife between them and the PCE.
> > > > "What about La Pasionaria?"
> > > > She was a member of the PCE.
> > > The Communists' (PCE) La Pasionaria also attacked El Campesino
> > > and he was imprisoned when he went to the Soviet Union.
> > >
> > > from the book: Life And Death in Society Russia, by El
> > > Campesino
> > Damn, dude, you must really hate Latinos.
> > ("La Pasionaria was Spanish. She was such a huge celebrity, and her PC utterances were so strident, that you could never call her on anything.")
> *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me, though, so maybe I don't know enough here.

(I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daughter*, but I'm not sure, I guess.)

On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 4:08:18 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 1:53:32 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 1:08:05 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 7:09:31 PM UTC-7, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 15:14:30 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> > > > (in article<f324dbc0-0afc-432d...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > > > On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 1:52:13 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 3:59:38 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-7, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > > > > On 9/6/22 1:14 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 22:35:45 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook.com>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Orwell and POUM were anti-fascists but were labelled as fascists by
> > > > > > > > > > other anti-fascists and condemned to death by these other anti-fascists.
> > > > > > > > > > You find that hard to believe? Homage to Catalonia clearly describes it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Being somewhat conservative I wouldn't go along with Orwell's ideas on
> > > > > > > > > > > socialism but no question he's extremely solid on terminology and what
> > > > > > > > > > > is and is not Fascism. He made it quite clear that Big Brother and
> > > > > > > > > > > Ingsoc was definitely totalitarian but not fascistic.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Nope - hard to believe at all - especially since unlike so many I
> > > > > > > > > > have< read the book.
> > > > > > > > You completely ignored the dramatic end of the book, where Orwell
> > > > > > > > escaped from the death squads since his militia the POUM was outlawed as
> > > > > > > > a fascist 5th column movement. So go ahead and deny that the POUM
> > > > > > > > were not called fascist, I and others have read Homage to Catalonia,
> > > > > > > > a book, a person, a group described as fascist by the Communist Party.
> > > > > > > > But thanks for reminding me to re-read the book.
> > > > > > > So this is really... rote "anti-Communist" garbage, rather than what it seems to be?
> > > > > > > Hmm.
> > > > > > Interestingly, this "London Bureau" confederation of leftist parties had an influence on the reconstituted Socialist International
> > > > > > in the later 20th century.
> > > > > > "I'm not interested."
> > > > > > I see.
> > > > >
> > > > > You didn't really have a difficulty telling them apart from Francoites, you know.
> > > > > As the book actually puts it, there was an unfortunate internecine strife between them and the PCE.
> > > > > "What about La Pasionaria?"
> > > > > She was a member of the PCE.
> > > > The Communists' (PCE) La Pasionaria also attacked El Campesino
> > > > and he was imprisoned when he went to the Soviet Union.
> > > >
> > > > from the book: Life And Death in Society Russia, by El
> > > > Campesino
> > > Damn, dude, you must really hate Latinos.
> > > ("La Pasionaria was Spanish. She was such a huge celebrity, and her PC utterances were so strident, that you could never call her on anything.")
> > *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me, though, so maybe I don't know enough here.
> (I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daughter*, but I'm not sure, I guess.)

It is pretty obvious that your explanation of Orwell's Spain years is "misdirective", though.
("Was Abraham Lincoln in the 'Abraham Lincoln Brigade'?" kinda stuff.)

On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 1:52:22 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 4:08:18 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 1:53:32 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 1:08:05 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 7:09:31 PM UTC-7, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 15:14:30 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> > > > > (in article<f324dbc0-0afc-432d...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > > > > On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 1:52:13 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > > On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 3:59:38 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-7, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On 9/6/22 1:14 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 22:35:45 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook.com>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Orwell and POUM were anti-fascists but were labelled as fascists by
> > > > > > > > > > > other anti-fascists and condemned to death by these other anti-fascists.
> > > > > > > > > > > You find that hard to believe? Homage to Catalonia clearly describes it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Being somewhat conservative I wouldn't go along with Orwell's ideas on
> > > > > > > > > > > > socialism but no question he's extremely solid on terminology and what
> > > > > > > > > > > > is and is not Fascism. He made it quite clear that Big Brother and
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ingsoc was definitely totalitarian but not fascistic.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Nope - hard to believe at all - especially since unlike so many I
> > > > > > > > > > > have< read the book.
> > > > > > > > > You completely ignored the dramatic end of the book, where Orwell
> > > > > > > > > escaped from the death squads since his militia the POUM was outlawed as
> > > > > > > > > a fascist 5th column movement. So go ahead and deny that the POUM
> > > > > > > > > were not called fascist, I and others have read Homage to Catalonia,
> > > > > > > > > a book, a person, a group described as fascist by the Communist Party.
> > > > > > > > > But thanks for reminding me to re-read the book.
> > > > > > > > So this is really... rote "anti-Communist" garbage, rather than what it seems to be?
> > > > > > > > Hmm.
> > > > > > > Interestingly, this "London Bureau" confederation of leftist parties had an influence on the reconstituted Socialist International
> > > > > > > in the later 20th century.
> > > > > > > "I'm not interested."
> > > > > > > I see.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You didn't really have a difficulty telling them apart from Francoites, you know.
> > > > > > As the book actually puts it, there was an unfortunate internecine strife between them and the PCE.
> > > > > > "What about La Pasionaria?"
> > > > > > She was a member of the PCE.
> > > > > The Communists' (PCE) La Pasionaria also attacked El Campesino
> > > > > and he was imprisoned when he went to the Soviet Union.
> > > > >
> > > > > from the book: Life And Death in Society Russia, by El
> > > > > Campesino
> > > > Damn, dude, you must really hate Latinos.
> > > > ("La Pasionaria was Spanish. She was such a huge celebrity, and her PC utterances were so strident, that you could never call her on anything.")
> > > *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me, though, so maybe I don't know enough here.
> > (I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daughter*, but I'm not sure, I guess.)
> It is pretty obvious that your explanation of Orwell's Spain years is "misdirective", though.
> ("Was Abraham Lincoln in the 'Abraham Lincoln Brigade'?" kinda stuff.)

"What about *Burmese Days*?"
It was not 100% important for me, no.

On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 2:31:59 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 1:52:22 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 4:08:18 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 1:53:32 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 1:08:05 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 7:09:31 PM UTC-7, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > > On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 15:14:30 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> > > > > > (in article<f324dbc0-0afc-432d...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > > > > > On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 1:52:13 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 3:59:38 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-7, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On 9/6/22 1:14 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 22:35:45 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Orwell and POUM were anti-fascists but were labelled as fascists by
> > > > > > > > > > > > other anti-fascists and condemned to death by these other anti-fascists.
> > > > > > > > > > > > You find that hard to believe? Homage to Catalonia clearly describes it.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Being somewhat conservative I wouldn't go along with Orwell's ideas on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > socialism but no question he's extremely solid on terminology and what
> > > > > > > > > > > > > is and is not Fascism. He made it quite clear that Big Brother and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ingsoc was definitely totalitarian but not fascistic.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Nope - hard to believe at all - especially since unlike so many I
> > > > > > > > > > > > have< read the book.
> > > > > > > > > > You completely ignored the dramatic end of the book, where Orwell
> > > > > > > > > > escaped from the death squads since his militia the POUM was outlawed as
> > > > > > > > > > a fascist 5th column movement. So go ahead and deny that the POUM
> > > > > > > > > > were not called fascist, I and others have read Homage to Catalonia,
> > > > > > > > > > a book, a person, a group described as fascist by the Communist Party.
> > > > > > > > > > But thanks for reminding me to re-read the book.
> > > > > > > > > So this is really... rote "anti-Communist" garbage, rather than what it seems to be?
> > > > > > > > > Hmm.
> > > > > > > > Interestingly, this "London Bureau" confederation of leftist parties had an influence on the reconstituted Socialist International
> > > > > > > > in the later 20th century.
> > > > > > > > "I'm not interested."
> > > > > > > > I see.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You didn't really have a difficulty telling them apart from Francoites, you know.
> > > > > > > As the book actually puts it, there was an unfortunate internecine strife between them and the PCE.
> > > > > > > "What about La Pasionaria?"
> > > > > > > She was a member of the PCE.
> > > > > > The Communists' (PCE) La Pasionaria also attacked El Campesino
> > > > > > and he was imprisoned when he went to the Soviet Union.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > from the book: Life And Death in Society Russia, by El
> > > > > > Campesino
> > > > > Damn, dude, you must really hate Latinos.
> > > > > ("La Pasionaria was Spanish. She was such a huge celebrity, and her PC utterances were so strident, that you could never call her on anything.")
> > > > *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me, though, so maybe I don't know enough here.
> > > (I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daughter*, but I'm not sure, I guess.)
> > It is pretty obvious that your explanation of Orwell's Spain years is "misdirective", though.
> > ("Was Abraham Lincoln in the 'Abraham Lincoln Brigade'?" kinda stuff.)
> "What about *Burmese Days*?"
> It was not 100% important for me, no.

*Such, Such Were the Joys* was another good one, though.

On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 3:40:20 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 2:31:59 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 1:52:22 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 4:08:18 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 1:53:32 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 1:08:05 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 7:09:31 PM UTC-7, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > > > On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 15:14:30 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> > > > > > > (in article<f324dbc0-0afc-432d...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 1:52:13 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 3:59:38 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-7, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On 9/6/22 1:14 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 22:35:45 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Orwell and POUM were anti-fascists but were labelled as fascists by
> > > > > > > > > > > > > other anti-fascists and condemned to death by these other anti-fascists.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You find that hard to believe? Homage to Catalonia clearly describes it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Being somewhat conservative I wouldn't go along with Orwell's ideas on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > socialism but no question he's extremely solid on terminology and what
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is and is not Fascism. He made it quite clear that Big Brother and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ingsoc was definitely totalitarian but not fascistic.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Nope - hard to believe at all - especially since unlike so many I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > have< read the book.
> > > > > > > > > > > You completely ignored the dramatic end of the book, where Orwell
> > > > > > > > > > > escaped from the death squads since his militia the POUM was outlawed as
> > > > > > > > > > > a fascist 5th column movement. So go ahead and deny that the POUM
> > > > > > > > > > > were not called fascist, I and others have read Homage to Catalonia,
> > > > > > > > > > > a book, a person, a group described as fascist by the Communist Party.
> > > > > > > > > > > But thanks for reminding me to re-read the book.
> > > > > > > > > > So this is really... rote "anti-Communist" garbage, rather than what it seems to be?
> > > > > > > > > > Hmm.
> > > > > > > > > Interestingly, this "London Bureau" confederation of leftist parties had an influence on the reconstituted Socialist International
> > > > > > > > > in the later 20th century.
> > > > > > > > > "I'm not interested."
> > > > > > > > > I see.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You didn't really have a difficulty telling them apart from Francoites, you know.
> > > > > > > > As the book actually puts it, there was an unfortunate internecine strife between them and the PCE.
> > > > > > > > "What about La Pasionaria?"
> > > > > > > > She was a member of the PCE.
> > > > > > > The Communists' (PCE) La Pasionaria also attacked El Campesino
> > > > > > > and he was imprisoned when he went to the Soviet Union.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > from the book: Life And Death in Society Russia, by El
> > > > > > > Campesino
> > > > > > Damn, dude, you must really hate Latinos.
> > > > > > ("La Pasionaria was Spanish. She was such a huge celebrity, and her PC utterances were so strident, that you could never call her on anything.")
> > > > > *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me, though, so maybe I don't know enough here.
> > > > (I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daughter*, but I'm not sure, I guess.)
> > > It is pretty obvious that your explanation of Orwell's Spain years is "misdirective", though.
> > > ("Was Abraham Lincoln in the 'Abraham Lincoln Brigade'?" kinda stuff.)
> > "What about *Burmese Days*?"
> > It was not 100% important for me, no.
> *Such, Such Were the Joys* was another good one, though.

And I don't know that you would think *Down and Out in Paris and London* was "pluted", but I liked that one too as a preteen.

On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 15:40:34 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
(in article<07be0792-6f9c-42da-9def-816260dd736cn@googlegroups.com>):

> > > > > > *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me, though, so maybe I don't know enough here.
> > > > > (I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daughter*, but I'm not sure, I guess.)
> > > > It is pretty obvious that your explanation of Orwell's Spain years is "misdirective", though.
> > > > ("Was Abraham Lincoln in the 'Abraham Lincoln Brigade'?" kinda stuff.)
> > > "What about *Burmese Days*?"
> > > It was not 100% important for me, no.
> > *Such, Such Were the Joys* was another good one, though.
>
> And I don't know that you would think *Down and Out in Paris and London* was "pluted", but I liked that one too as a preteen.

I’ve read that, but I haven’t read Road to Wagon Pier yet.

On Wed, 05 Oct 2022 11:02:05 -0700, Pluted Pup <plutedpup@outlook.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 15:40:34 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
>(in article<07be0792-6f9c-42da-9def-816260dd736cn@googlegroups.com>):
>
>> > > > > > *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me, though, so maybe I don't know enough here.
>> > > > > (I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daughter*, but I'm not sure, I guess.)
>> > > > It is pretty obvious that your explanation of Orwell's Spain years is "misdirective", though.
>> > > > ("Was Abraham Lincoln in the 'Abraham Lincoln Brigade'?" kinda stuff.)
>> > > "What about *Burmese Days*?"
>> > > It was not 100% important for me, no.
>> > *Such, Such Were the Joys* was another good one, though.
>>
>> And I don't know that you would think *Down and Out in Paris and London* was "pluted", but I liked that one too as a preteen.
>
>I’ve read that, but I haven’t read Road to Wagon Pier yet.
>
I haven't read that one either but I >HAVE< read The Road to Wigan
Pier (both halves of the book - the second is REALLY bleak) though in
my opinion it wasn't as good as Homage to Catalonia or Nineteen
Eighty-Four (the correct spelling - NOT the number dammit!)

On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 2:23:35 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Oct 2022 11:02:05 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook.com>
> wrote:
> >On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 15:40:34 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> >(in article<07be0792-6f9c-42da...@googlegroups.com>):
> >
> >> > > > > > *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me, though, so maybe I don't know enough here.
> >> > > > > (I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daughter*, but I'm not sure, I guess.)
> >> > > > It is pretty obvious that your explanation of Orwell's Spain years is "misdirective", though.
> >> > > > ("Was Abraham Lincoln in the 'Abraham Lincoln Brigade'?" kinda stuff.)
> >> > > "What about *Burmese Days*?"
> >> > > It was not 100% important for me, no.
> >> > *Such, Such Were the Joys* was another good one, though.
> >>
> >> And I don't know that you would think *Down and Out in Paris and London* was "pluted", but I liked that one too as a preteen.
> >
> >I’ve read that, but I haven’t read Road to Wagon Pier yet.
> >
> I haven't read that one either but I >HAVE< read The Road to Wigan
> Pier (both halves of the book - the second is REALLY bleak) though in
> my opinion it wasn't as good as Homage to Catalonia or Nineteen
> Eighty-Four (the correct spelling - NOT the number dammit!)

Well, there was an Orwell before the dystopian science fiction, and what
he was was a "major adherent" of the Independent Labour Party (which
he formally quit at some point in the... 1930s?) It was as a British socialist
of an anti-Leninist tenor that he was "working with" POUM groups in Spain,
"opposite to" American CPUSA members who joined with the PCE as
part of the "Abraham Lincoln Brigade".

"Ahem."
Those are, uh, the facts of the matter.

On Thursday, October 6, 2022 at 3:40:20 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 2:23:35 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > On Wed, 05 Oct 2022 11:02:05 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook.com>
> > wrote:
> > >On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 15:40:34 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> > >(in article<07be0792-6f9c-42da...@googlegroups.com>):
> > >
> > >> > > > > > *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me, though, so maybe I don't know enough here.
> > >> > > > > (I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daughter*, but I'm not sure, I guess.)
> > >> > > > It is pretty obvious that your explanation of Orwell's Spain years is "misdirective", though.
> > >> > > > ("Was Abraham Lincoln in the 'Abraham Lincoln Brigade'?" kinda stuff.)
> > >> > > "What about *Burmese Days*?"
> > >> > > It was not 100% important for me, no.
> > >> > *Such, Such Were the Joys* was another good one, though.
> > >>
> > >> And I don't know that you would think *Down and Out in Paris and London* was "pluted", but I liked that one too as a preteen.
> > >
> > >I’ve read that, but I haven’t read Road to Wagon Pier yet.
> > >
> > I haven't read that one either but I >HAVE< read The Road to Wigan
> > Pier (both halves of the book - the second is REALLY bleak) though in
> > my opinion it wasn't as good as Homage to Catalonia or Nineteen
> > Eighty-Four (the correct spelling - NOT the number dammit!)
> Well, there was an Orwell before the dystopian science fiction, and what
> he was was a "major adherent" of the Independent Labour Party (which
> he formally quit at some point in the... 1930s?) It was as a British socialist
> of an anti-Leninist tenor that he was "working with" POUM groups in Spain,
> "opposite to" American CPUSA members who joined with the PCE as
> part of the "Abraham Lincoln Brigade".
>
> "Ahem."
> Those are, uh, the facts of the matter.

I think Hemingway was in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, but I'm not sure.

In article <0053de6a-458f-456f-9b77-6b64f59081e7n@googlegroups.com>,
Jeffrey Rubard <jeffreydanielrubard@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, October 6, 2022 at 3:40:20 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 2:23:35 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > On Wed, 05 Oct 2022 11:02:05 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 15:40:34 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> > > >(in article<07be0792-6f9c-42da...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > >
> > > >> > > > > > *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me,
> > > >> > > > > > though, so maybe I don't know enough here.
> > > >> > > > > (I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daughter*, but I'm
> > > >> > > > > not sure, I guess.)
> > > >> > > > It is pretty obvious that your explanation of Orwell's Spain
> > > >> > > > years is "misdirective", though.
> > > >> > > > ("Was Abraham Lincoln in the 'Abraham Lincoln Brigade'?" kinda
> > > >> > > > stuff.)
> > > >> > > "What about *Burmese Days*?"
> > > >> > > It was not 100% important for me, no.
> > > >> > *Such, Such Were the Joys* was another good one, though.
> > > >>
> > > >> And I don't know that you would think *Down and Out in Paris and
> > > >> London* was "pluted", but I liked that one too as a preteen.
> > > >
> > > >I’ve read that, but I haven’t read Road to Wagon Pier yet.
> > > >
> > > I haven't read that one either but I >HAVE< read The Road to Wigan
> > > Pier (both halves of the book - the second is REALLY bleak) though in
> > > my opinion it wasn't as good as Homage to Catalonia or Nineteen
> > > Eighty-Four (the correct spelling - NOT the number dammit!)
> > Well, there was an Orwell before the dystopian science fiction, and what
> > he was was a "major adherent" of the Independent Labour Party (which
> > he formally quit at some point in the... 1930s?) It was as a British
> > socialist
> > of an anti-Leninist tenor that he was "working with" POUM groups in Spain,
> > "opposite to" American CPUSA members who joined with the PCE as
> > part of the "Abraham Lincoln Brigade".
> >
> > "Ahem."
> > Those are, uh, the facts of the matter.
>
> I think Hemingway was in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, but I'm not sure.

He was a reporter for a newspaper syndicate, North America Newspaper
Alliance (acquired by United Feature Syndicate in 1972).

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 9:46:50 PM UTC-7, Robert Woodward wrote:
> In article <0053de6a-458f-456f...@googlegroups.com>,
> Jeffrey Rubard <jeffreyda...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, October 6, 2022 at 3:40:20 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 2:23:35 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 05 Oct 2022 11:02:05 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 15:40:34 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> > > > >(in article<07be0792-6f9c-42da...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me,
> > > > >> > > > > > though, so maybe I don't know enough here.
> > > > >> > > > > (I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daughter*, but I'm
> > > > >> > > > > not sure, I guess.)
> > > > >> > > > It is pretty obvious that your explanation of Orwell's Spain
> > > > >> > > > years is "misdirective", though.
> > > > >> > > > ("Was Abraham Lincoln in the 'Abraham Lincoln Brigade'?" kinda
> > > > >> > > > stuff.)
> > > > >> > > "What about *Burmese Days*?"
> > > > >> > > It was not 100% important for me, no.
> > > > >> > *Such, Such Were the Joys* was another good one, though.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> And I don't know that you would think *Down and Out in Paris and
> > > > >> London* was "pluted", but I liked that one too as a preteen.
> > > > >
> > > > >I’ve read that, but I haven’t read Road to Wagon Pier yet.
> > > > >
> > > > I haven't read that one either but I >HAVE< read The Road to Wigan
> > > > Pier (both halves of the book - the second is REALLY bleak) though in
> > > > my opinion it wasn't as good as Homage to Catalonia or Nineteen
> > > > Eighty-Four (the correct spelling - NOT the number dammit!)
> > > Well, there was an Orwell before the dystopian science fiction, and what
> > > he was was a "major adherent" of the Independent Labour Party (which
> > > he formally quit at some point in the... 1930s?) It was as a British
> > > socialist
> > > of an anti-Leninist tenor that he was "working with" POUM groups in Spain,
> > > "opposite to" American CPUSA members who joined with the PCE as
> > > part of the "Abraham Lincoln Brigade".
> > >
> > > "Ahem."
> > > Those are, uh, the facts of the matter.
> >
> > I think Hemingway was in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, but I'm not sure.
> He was a reporter for a newspaper syndicate, North America Newspaper
> Alliance (acquired by United Feature Syndicate in 1972).

Oh, yeah, sure.

On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 2:42:23 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 9:46:50 PM UTC-7, Robert Woodward wrote:
> > In article <0053de6a-458f-456f...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Jeffrey Rubard <jeffreyda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Thursday, October 6, 2022 at 3:40:20 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 2:23:35 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, 05 Oct 2022 11:02:05 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 15:40:34 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> > > > > >(in article<07be0792-6f9c-42da...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me,
> > > > > >> > > > > > though, so maybe I don't know enough here.
> > > > > >> > > > > (I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daughter*, but I'm
> > > > > >> > > > > not sure, I guess.)
> > > > > >> > > > It is pretty obvious that your explanation of Orwell's Spain
> > > > > >> > > > years is "misdirective", though.
> > > > > >> > > > ("Was Abraham Lincoln in the 'Abraham Lincoln Brigade'?" kinda
> > > > > >> > > > stuff.)
> > > > > >> > > "What about *Burmese Days*?"
> > > > > >> > > It was not 100% important for me, no.
> > > > > >> > *Such, Such Were the Joys* was another good one, though.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> And I don't know that you would think *Down and Out in Paris and
> > > > > >> London* was "pluted", but I liked that one too as a preteen.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I’ve read that, but I haven’t read Road to Wagon Pier yet.
> > > > > >
> > > > > I haven't read that one either but I >HAVE< read The Road to Wigan
> > > > > Pier (both halves of the book - the second is REALLY bleak) though in
> > > > > my opinion it wasn't as good as Homage to Catalonia or Nineteen
> > > > > Eighty-Four (the correct spelling - NOT the number dammit!)
> > > > Well, there was an Orwell before the dystopian science fiction, and what
> > > > he was was a "major adherent" of the Independent Labour Party (which
> > > > he formally quit at some point in the... 1930s?) It was as a British
> > > > socialist
> > > > of an anti-Leninist tenor that he was "working with" POUM groups in Spain,
> > > > "opposite to" American CPUSA members who joined with the PCE as
> > > > part of the "Abraham Lincoln Brigade".
> > > >
> > > > "Ahem."
> > > > Those are, uh, the facts of the matter.
> > >
> > > I think Hemingway was in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, but I'm not sure.
> > He was a reporter for a newspaper syndicate, North America Newspaper
> > Alliance (acquired by United Feature Syndicate in 1972).
> Oh, yeah, sure.

"And Orwell was..."
A leading light of the UK social-democratic left? Or are we "high" right now?

On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 1:59:16 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 2:42:23 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 9:46:50 PM UTC-7, Robert Woodward wrote:
> > > In article <0053de6a-458f-456f...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > Jeffrey Rubard <jeffreyda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Thursday, October 6, 2022 at 3:40:20 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 2:23:35 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > > > On Wed, 05 Oct 2022 11:02:05 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook..com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 15:40:34 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> > > > > > >(in article<07be0792-6f9c-42da...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > though, so maybe I don't know enough here.
> > > > > > >> > > > > (I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daughter*, but I'm
> > > > > > >> > > > > not sure, I guess.)
> > > > > > >> > > > It is pretty obvious that your explanation of Orwell's Spain
> > > > > > >> > > > years is "misdirective", though.
> > > > > > >> > > > ("Was Abraham Lincoln in the 'Abraham Lincoln Brigade'?" kinda
> > > > > > >> > > > stuff.)
> > > > > > >> > > "What about *Burmese Days*?"
> > > > > > >> > > It was not 100% important for me, no.
> > > > > > >> > *Such, Such Were the Joys* was another good one, though.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> And I don't know that you would think *Down and Out in Paris and
> > > > > > >> London* was "pluted", but I liked that one too as a preteen.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I’ve read that, but I haven’t read Road to Wagon Pier yet.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > I haven't read that one either but I >HAVE< read The Road to Wigan
> > > > > > Pier (both halves of the book - the second is REALLY bleak) though in
> > > > > > my opinion it wasn't as good as Homage to Catalonia or Nineteen
> > > > > > Eighty-Four (the correct spelling - NOT the number dammit!)
> > > > > Well, there was an Orwell before the dystopian science fiction, and what
> > > > > he was was a "major adherent" of the Independent Labour Party (which
> > > > > he formally quit at some point in the... 1930s?) It was as a British
> > > > > socialist
> > > > > of an anti-Leninist tenor that he was "working with" POUM groups in Spain,
> > > > > "opposite to" American CPUSA members who joined with the PCE as
> > > > > part of the "Abraham Lincoln Brigade".
> > > > >
> > > > > "Ahem."
> > > > > Those are, uh, the facts of the matter.
> > > >
> > > > I think Hemingway was in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, but I'm not sure.
> > > He was a reporter for a newspaper syndicate, North America Newspaper
> > > Alliance (acquired by United Feature Syndicate in 1972).
> > Oh, yeah, sure.
> "And Orwell was..."
> A leading light of the UK social-democratic left? Or are we "high" right now?

"I don't think so."
Could you offer a *plausible* alternate suggestion, broadening the common idea that he had a "change of heart" around the time of 1984 and Animal Farm?
"Common idea?"
Maybe he didn't, really.
"That's hardly likely."
What is the particular probability metric that drives such seemingly-uninformed but highly definite suggestions?

On Tuesday, October 11, 2022 at 12:34:25 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 1:59:16 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 2:42:23 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 9:46:50 PM UTC-7, Robert Woodward wrote:
> > > > In article <0053de6a-458f-456f...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > > Jeffrey Rubard <jeffreyda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Thursday, October 6, 2022 at 3:40:20 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 2:23:35 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wed, 05 Oct 2022 11:02:05 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 15:40:34 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> > > > > > > >(in article<07be0792-6f9c-42da...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me,
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > though, so maybe I don't know enough here.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > (I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daughter*, but I'm
> > > > > > > >> > > > > not sure, I guess.)
> > > > > > > >> > > > It is pretty obvious that your explanation of Orwell's Spain
> > > > > > > >> > > > years is "misdirective", though.
> > > > > > > >> > > > ("Was Abraham Lincoln in the 'Abraham Lincoln Brigade'?" kinda
> > > > > > > >> > > > stuff.)
> > > > > > > >> > > "What about *Burmese Days*?"
> > > > > > > >> > > It was not 100% important for me, no.
> > > > > > > >> > *Such, Such Were the Joys* was another good one, though.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> And I don't know that you would think *Down and Out in Paris and
> > > > > > > >> London* was "pluted", but I liked that one too as a preteen.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >I’ve read that, but I haven’t read Road to Wagon Pier yet.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I haven't read that one either but I >HAVE< read The Road to Wigan
> > > > > > > Pier (both halves of the book - the second is REALLY bleak) though in
> > > > > > > my opinion it wasn't as good as Homage to Catalonia or Nineteen
> > > > > > > Eighty-Four (the correct spelling - NOT the number dammit!)
> > > > > > Well, there was an Orwell before the dystopian science fiction, and what
> > > > > > he was was a "major adherent" of the Independent Labour Party (which
> > > > > > he formally quit at some point in the... 1930s?) It was as a British
> > > > > > socialist
> > > > > > of an anti-Leninist tenor that he was "working with" POUM groups in Spain,
> > > > > > "opposite to" American CPUSA members who joined with the PCE as
> > > > > > part of the "Abraham Lincoln Brigade".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Ahem."
> > > > > > Those are, uh, the facts of the matter.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think Hemingway was in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, but I'm not sure.
> > > > He was a reporter for a newspaper syndicate, North America Newspaper
> > > > Alliance (acquired by United Feature Syndicate in 1972).
> > > Oh, yeah, sure.
> > "And Orwell was..."
> > A leading light of the UK social-democratic left? Or are we "high" right now?
> "I don't think so."
> Could you offer a *plausible* alternate suggestion, broadening the common idea that he had a "change of heart" around the time of 1984 and Animal Farm?
> "Common idea?"
> Maybe he didn't, really.
> "That's hardly likely."
> What is the particular probability metric that drives such seemingly-uninformed but highly definite suggestions?

"Um?
Like, why would you figure you knew better than other people about a topic they were perhaps better-informed about?

On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:14:43 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 11, 2022 at 12:34:25 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 1:59:16 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 2:42:23 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 9:46:50 PM UTC-7, Robert Woodward wrote:
> > > > > In article <0053de6a-458f-456f...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > Jeffrey Rubard <jeffreyda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Thursday, October 6, 2022 at 3:40:20 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 2:23:35 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Wed, 05 Oct 2022 11:02:05 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 15:40:34 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> > > > > > > > >(in article<07be0792-6f9c-42da...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > though, so maybe I don't know enough here.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > (I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daughter*, but I'm
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > not sure, I guess.)
> > > > > > > > >> > > > It is pretty obvious that your explanation of Orwell's Spain
> > > > > > > > >> > > > years is "misdirective", though.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > ("Was Abraham Lincoln in the 'Abraham Lincoln Brigade'?" kinda
> > > > > > > > >> > > > stuff.)
> > > > > > > > >> > > "What about *Burmese Days*?"
> > > > > > > > >> > > It was not 100% important for me, no.
> > > > > > > > >> > *Such, Such Were the Joys* was another good one, though.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> And I don't know that you would think *Down and Out in Paris and
> > > > > > > > >> London* was "pluted", but I liked that one too as a preteen.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >I’ve read that, but I haven’t read Road to Wagon Pier yet.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I haven't read that one either but I >HAVE< read The Road to Wigan
> > > > > > > > Pier (both halves of the book - the second is REALLY bleak) though in
> > > > > > > > my opinion it wasn't as good as Homage to Catalonia or Nineteen
> > > > > > > > Eighty-Four (the correct spelling - NOT the number dammit!)
> > > > > > > Well, there was an Orwell before the dystopian science fiction, and what
> > > > > > > he was was a "major adherent" of the Independent Labour Party (which
> > > > > > > he formally quit at some point in the... 1930s?) It was as a British
> > > > > > > socialist
> > > > > > > of an anti-Leninist tenor that he was "working with" POUM groups in Spain,
> > > > > > > "opposite to" American CPUSA members who joined with the PCE as
> > > > > > > part of the "Abraham Lincoln Brigade".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Ahem."
> > > > > > > Those are, uh, the facts of the matter.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think Hemingway was in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, but I'm not sure.
> > > > > He was a reporter for a newspaper syndicate, North America Newspaper
> > > > > Alliance (acquired by United Feature Syndicate in 1972).
> > > > Oh, yeah, sure.
> > > "And Orwell was..."
> > > A leading light of the UK social-democratic left? Or are we "high" right now?
> > "I don't think so."
> > Could you offer a *plausible* alternate suggestion, broadening the common idea that he had a "change of heart" around the time of 1984 and Animal Farm?
> > "Common idea?"
> > Maybe he didn't, really.
> > "That's hardly likely."
> > What is the particular probability metric that drives such seemingly-uninformed but highly definite suggestions?
> "Um?
> Like, why would you figure you knew better than other people about a topic they were perhaps better-informed about?

Is it more like you're really set on disseminating a "canard" to a particular purpose, and an alternate conjecture
(or one which is really not conjecture at all) shows you up?

On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:20:39 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:14:43 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 11, 2022 at 12:34:25 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 1:59:16 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 2:42:23 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 9:46:50 PM UTC-7, Robert Woodward wrote:
> > > > > > In article <0053de6a-458f-456f...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > > Jeffrey Rubard <jeffreyda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thursday, October 6, 2022 at 3:40:20 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 2:23:35 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Wed, 05 Oct 2022 11:02:05 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook.com>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 15:40:34 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> > > > > > > > > >(in article<07be0792-6f9c-42da...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me,
> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > though, so maybe I don't know enough here.
> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > (I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daughter*, but I'm
> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > not sure, I guess.)
> > > > > > > > > >> > > > It is pretty obvious that your explanation of Orwell's Spain
> > > > > > > > > >> > > > years is "misdirective", though.
> > > > > > > > > >> > > > ("Was Abraham Lincoln in the 'Abraham Lincoln Brigade'?" kinda
> > > > > > > > > >> > > > stuff.)
> > > > > > > > > >> > > "What about *Burmese Days*?"
> > > > > > > > > >> > > It was not 100% important for me, no.
> > > > > > > > > >> > *Such, Such Were the Joys* was another good one, though.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> And I don't know that you would think *Down and Out in Paris and
> > > > > > > > > >> London* was "pluted", but I liked that one too as a preteen.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >I’ve read that, but I haven’t read Road to Wagon Pier yet.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I haven't read that one either but I >HAVE< read The Road to Wigan
> > > > > > > > > Pier (both halves of the book - the second is REALLY bleak) though in
> > > > > > > > > my opinion it wasn't as good as Homage to Catalonia or Nineteen
> > > > > > > > > Eighty-Four (the correct spelling - NOT the number dammit!)
> > > > > > > > Well, there was an Orwell before the dystopian science fiction, and what
> > > > > > > > he was was a "major adherent" of the Independent Labour Party (which
> > > > > > > > he formally quit at some point in the... 1930s?) It was as a British
> > > > > > > > socialist
> > > > > > > > of an anti-Leninist tenor that he was "working with" POUM groups in Spain,
> > > > > > > > "opposite to" American CPUSA members who joined with the PCE as
> > > > > > > > part of the "Abraham Lincoln Brigade".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Ahem."
> > > > > > > > Those are, uh, the facts of the matter.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think Hemingway was in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, but I'm not sure.
> > > > > > He was a reporter for a newspaper syndicate, North America Newspaper
> > > > > > Alliance (acquired by United Feature Syndicate in 1972).
> > > > > Oh, yeah, sure.
> > > > "And Orwell was..."
> > > > A leading light of the UK social-democratic left? Or are we "high" right now?
> > > "I don't think so."
> > > Could you offer a *plausible* alternate suggestion, broadening the common idea that he had a "change of heart" around the time of 1984 and Animal Farm?
> > > "Common idea?"
> > > Maybe he didn't, really.
> > > "That's hardly likely."
> > > What is the particular probability metric that drives such seemingly-uninformed but highly definite suggestions?
> > "Um?
> > Like, why would you figure you knew better than other people about a topic they were perhaps better-informed about?
> Is it more like you're really set on disseminating a "canard" to a particular purpose, and an alternate conjecture
> (or one which is really not conjecture at all) shows you up?

Yeah, I really do think so. "A. Militia" is something ordered to suit in some to-me-obscure context, and hardly adequate
as regards discussing Orwell's Spain experience or the trajectory of the historical events themselves. It seems like
a "hurdy-gurdy" of a sort of sinister character.

On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 1:43:20 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:20:39 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:14:43 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, October 11, 2022 at 12:34:25 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 1:59:16 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 2:42:23 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 9:46:50 PM UTC-7, Robert Woodward wrote:
> > > > > > > In article <0053de6a-458f-456f...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > > > Jeffrey Rubard <jeffreyda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 6, 2022 at 3:40:20 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 2:23:35 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 05 Oct 2022 11:02:05 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook.com>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 15:40:34 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> > > > > > > > > > >(in article<07be0792-6f9c-42da...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me,
> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > though, so maybe I don't know enough here.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > (I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daughter*, but I'm
> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > not sure, I guess.)
> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > It is pretty obvious that your explanation of Orwell's Spain
> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > years is "misdirective", though.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > ("Was Abraham Lincoln in the 'Abraham Lincoln Brigade'?" kinda
> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > stuff.)
> > > > > > > > > > >> > > "What about *Burmese Days*?"
> > > > > > > > > > >> > > It was not 100% important for me, no.
> > > > > > > > > > >> > *Such, Such Were the Joys* was another good one, though.
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> And I don't know that you would think *Down and Out in Paris and
> > > > > > > > > > >> London* was "pluted", but I liked that one too as a preteen.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >I’ve read that, but I haven’t read Road to Wagon Pier yet.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I haven't read that one either but I >HAVE< read The Road to Wigan
> > > > > > > > > > Pier (both halves of the book - the second is REALLY bleak) though in
> > > > > > > > > > my opinion it wasn't as good as Homage to Catalonia or Nineteen
> > > > > > > > > > Eighty-Four (the correct spelling - NOT the number dammit!)
> > > > > > > > > Well, there was an Orwell before the dystopian science fiction, and what
> > > > > > > > > he was was a "major adherent" of the Independent Labour Party (which
> > > > > > > > > he formally quit at some point in the... 1930s?) It was as a British
> > > > > > > > > socialist
> > > > > > > > > of an anti-Leninist tenor that he was "working with" POUM groups in Spain,
> > > > > > > > > "opposite to" American CPUSA members who joined with the PCE as
> > > > > > > > > part of the "Abraham Lincoln Brigade".
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "Ahem."
> > > > > > > > > Those are, uh, the facts of the matter.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think Hemingway was in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, but I'm not sure.
> > > > > > > He was a reporter for a newspaper syndicate, North America Newspaper
> > > > > > > Alliance (acquired by United Feature Syndicate in 1972).
> > > > > > Oh, yeah, sure.
> > > > > "And Orwell was..."
> > > > > A leading light of the UK social-democratic left? Or are we "high" right now?
> > > > "I don't think so."
> > > > Could you offer a *plausible* alternate suggestion, broadening the common idea that he had a "change of heart" around the time of 1984 and Animal Farm?
> > > > "Common idea?"
> > > > Maybe he didn't, really.
> > > > "That's hardly likely."
> > > > What is the particular probability metric that drives such seemingly-uninformed but highly definite suggestions?
> > > "Um?
> > > Like, why would you figure you knew better than other people about a topic they were perhaps better-informed about?
> > Is it more like you're really set on disseminating a "canard" to a particular purpose, and an alternate conjecture
> > (or one which is really not conjecture at all) shows you up?
> Yeah, I really do think so. "A. Militia" is something ordered to suit in some to-me-obscure context, and hardly adequate
> as regards discussing Orwell's Spain experience or the trajectory of the historical events themselves. It seems like
> a "hurdy-gurdy" of a sort of sinister character.

It's like it's a "4chan" routine or something.

On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 4:58:07 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 1:43:20 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:20:39 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:14:43 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, October 11, 2022 at 12:34:25 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 1:59:16 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 2:42:23 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > > On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 9:46:50 PM UTC-7, Robert Woodward wrote:
> > > > > > > > In article <0053de6a-458f-456f...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > > > > Jeffrey Rubard <jeffreyda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 6, 2022 at 3:40:20 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 2:23:35 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 05 Oct 2022 11:02:05 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut....@outlook.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 15:40:34 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> > > > > > > > > > > >(in article<07be0792-6f9c-42da...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me,
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > though, so maybe I don't know enough here.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > (I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daughter*, but I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > not sure, I guess.)
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > It is pretty obvious that your explanation of Orwell's Spain
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > years is "misdirective", though.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > ("Was Abraham Lincoln in the 'Abraham Lincoln Brigade'?" kinda
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > stuff.)
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > "What about *Burmese Days*?"
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > It was not 100% important for me, no.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > *Such, Such Were the Joys* was another good one, though.
> > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> And I don't know that you would think *Down and Out in Paris and
> > > > > > > > > > > >> London* was "pluted", but I liked that one too as a preteen.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >I’ve read that, but I haven’t read Road to Wagon Pier yet.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I haven't read that one either but I >HAVE< read The Road to Wigan
> > > > > > > > > > > Pier (both halves of the book - the second is REALLY bleak) though in
> > > > > > > > > > > my opinion it wasn't as good as Homage to Catalonia or Nineteen
> > > > > > > > > > > Eighty-Four (the correct spelling - NOT the number dammit!)
> > > > > > > > > > Well, there was an Orwell before the dystopian science fiction, and what
> > > > > > > > > > he was was a "major adherent" of the Independent Labour Party (which
> > > > > > > > > > he formally quit at some point in the... 1930s?) It was as a British
> > > > > > > > > > socialist
> > > > > > > > > > of an anti-Leninist tenor that he was "working with" POUM groups in Spain,
> > > > > > > > > > "opposite to" American CPUSA members who joined with the PCE as
> > > > > > > > > > part of the "Abraham Lincoln Brigade".
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "Ahem."
> > > > > > > > > > Those are, uh, the facts of the matter.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I think Hemingway was in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, but I'm not sure.
> > > > > > > > He was a reporter for a newspaper syndicate, North America Newspaper
> > > > > > > > Alliance (acquired by United Feature Syndicate in 1972).
> > > > > > > Oh, yeah, sure.
> > > > > > "And Orwell was..."
> > > > > > A leading light of the UK social-democratic left? Or are we "high" right now?
> > > > > "I don't think so."
> > > > > Could you offer a *plausible* alternate suggestion, broadening the common idea that he had a "change of heart" around the time of 1984 and Animal Farm?
> > > > > "Common idea?"
> > > > > Maybe he didn't, really.
> > > > > "That's hardly likely."
> > > > > What is the particular probability metric that drives such seemingly-uninformed but highly definite suggestions?
> > > > "Um?
> > > > Like, why would you figure you knew better than other people about a topic they were perhaps better-informed about?
> > > Is it more like you're really set on disseminating a "canard" to a particular purpose, and an alternate conjecture
> > > (or one which is really not conjecture at all) shows you up?
> > Yeah, I really do think so. "A. Militia" is something ordered to suit in some to-me-obscure context, and hardly adequate
> > as regards discussing Orwell's Spain experience or the trajectory of the historical events themselves. It seems like
> > a "hurdy-gurdy" of a sort of sinister character.
> It's like it's a "4chan" routine or something.

"Maybe it is."
Well, the facts of Orwell's years in Spain are well-enough known separately from your "can't-miss routine", though.
Its flaws show through more easily than you think.

On Sunday, October 16, 2022 at 2:41:48 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 4:58:07 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 1:43:20 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:20:39 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:14:43 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, October 11, 2022 at 12:34:25 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 1:59:16 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 2:42:23 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 9:46:50 PM UTC-7, Robert Woodward wrote:
> > > > > > > > > In article <0053de6a-458f-456f...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > > > > > Jeffrey Rubard <jeffreyda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 6, 2022 at 3:40:20 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 2:23:35 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 05 Oct 2022 11:02:05 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 15:40:34 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> > > > > > > > > > > > >(in article<07be0792-6f9c-42da...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > though, so maybe I don't know enough here.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > (I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daughter*, but I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > not sure, I guess.)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > It is pretty obvious that your explanation of Orwell's Spain
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > years is "misdirective", though.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > ("Was Abraham Lincoln in the 'Abraham Lincoln Brigade'?" kinda
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > stuff.)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > "What about *Burmese Days*?"
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > It was not 100% important for me, no.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > *Such, Such Were the Joys* was another good one, though.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> And I don't know that you would think *Down and Out in Paris and
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> London* was "pluted", but I liked that one too as a preteen.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >I’ve read that, but I haven’t read Road to Wagon Pier yet.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I haven't read that one either but I >HAVE< read The Road to Wigan
> > > > > > > > > > > > Pier (both halves of the book - the second is REALLY bleak) though in
> > > > > > > > > > > > my opinion it wasn't as good as Homage to Catalonia or Nineteen
> > > > > > > > > > > > Eighty-Four (the correct spelling - NOT the number dammit!)
> > > > > > > > > > > Well, there was an Orwell before the dystopian science fiction, and what
> > > > > > > > > > > he was was a "major adherent" of the Independent Labour Party (which
> > > > > > > > > > > he formally quit at some point in the... 1930s?) It was as a British
> > > > > > > > > > > socialist
> > > > > > > > > > > of an anti-Leninist tenor that he was "working with" POUM groups in Spain,
> > > > > > > > > > > "opposite to" American CPUSA members who joined with the PCE as
> > > > > > > > > > > part of the "Abraham Lincoln Brigade".
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > "Ahem."
> > > > > > > > > > > Those are, uh, the facts of the matter.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I think Hemingway was in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, but I'm not sure.
> > > > > > > > > He was a reporter for a newspaper syndicate, North America Newspaper
> > > > > > > > > Alliance (acquired by United Feature Syndicate in 1972).
> > > > > > > > Oh, yeah, sure.
> > > > > > > "And Orwell was..."
> > > > > > > A leading light of the UK social-democratic left? Or are we "high" right now?
> > > > > > "I don't think so."
> > > > > > Could you offer a *plausible* alternate suggestion, broadening the common idea that he had a "change of heart" around the time of 1984 and Animal Farm?
> > > > > > "Common idea?"
> > > > > > Maybe he didn't, really.
> > > > > > "That's hardly likely."
> > > > > > What is the particular probability metric that drives such seemingly-uninformed but highly definite suggestions?
> > > > > "Um?
> > > > > Like, why would you figure you knew better than other people about a topic they were perhaps better-informed about?
> > > > Is it more like you're really set on disseminating a "canard" to a particular purpose, and an alternate conjecture
> > > > (or one which is really not conjecture at all) shows you up?
> > > Yeah, I really do think so. "A. Militia" is something ordered to suit in some to-me-obscure context, and hardly adequate
> > > as regards discussing Orwell's Spain experience or the trajectory of the historical events themselves. It seems like
> > > a "hurdy-gurdy" of a sort of sinister character.
> > It's like it's a "4chan" routine or something.
> "Maybe it is."
> Well, the facts of Orwell's years in Spain are well-enough known separately from your "can't-miss routine", though.
> Its flaws show through more easily than you think.

That would be my "presentiment" on the topic, anyhow.

On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 2:05:00 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> On Sunday, October 16, 2022 at 2:41:48 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 4:58:07 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 1:43:20 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:20:39 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:14:43 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > On Tuesday, October 11, 2022 at 12:34:25 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > > On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 1:59:16 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 2:42:23 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 9:46:50 PM UTC-7, Robert Woodward wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > In article <0053de6a-458f-456f...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > > > > > > Jeffrey Rubard <jeffreyda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 6, 2022 at 3:40:20 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 2:23:35 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 05 Oct 2022 11:02:05 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 15:40:34 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >(in article<07be0792-6f9c-42da...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > though, so maybe I don't know enough here.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > (I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daughter*, but I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > not sure, I guess.)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > It is pretty obvious that your explanation of Orwell's Spain
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > years is "misdirective", though.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > ("Was Abraham Lincoln in the 'Abraham Lincoln Brigade'?" kinda
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > stuff.)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > "What about *Burmese Days*?"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > It was not 100% important for me, no.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > *Such, Such Were the Joys* was another good one, though.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> And I don't know that you would think *Down and Out in Paris and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> London* was "pluted", but I liked that one too as a preteen.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >I’ve read that, but I haven’t read Road to Wagon Pier yet.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I haven't read that one either but I >HAVE< read The Road to Wigan
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Pier (both halves of the book - the second is REALLY bleak) though in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > my opinion it wasn't as good as Homage to Catalonia or Nineteen
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Eighty-Four (the correct spelling - NOT the number dammit!)
> > > > > > > > > > > > Well, there was an Orwell before the dystopian science fiction, and what
> > > > > > > > > > > > he was was a "major adherent" of the Independent Labour Party (which
> > > > > > > > > > > > he formally quit at some point in the... 1930s?) It was as a British
> > > > > > > > > > > > socialist
> > > > > > > > > > > > of an anti-Leninist tenor that he was "working with" POUM groups in Spain,
> > > > > > > > > > > > "opposite to" American CPUSA members who joined with the PCE as
> > > > > > > > > > > > part of the "Abraham Lincoln Brigade".
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > "Ahem."
> > > > > > > > > > > > Those are, uh, the facts of the matter.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I think Hemingway was in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, but I'm not sure.
> > > > > > > > > > He was a reporter for a newspaper syndicate, North America Newspaper
> > > > > > > > > > Alliance (acquired by United Feature Syndicate in 1972)..
> > > > > > > > > Oh, yeah, sure.
> > > > > > > > "And Orwell was..."
> > > > > > > > A leading light of the UK social-democratic left? Or are we "high" right now?
> > > > > > > "I don't think so."
> > > > > > > Could you offer a *plausible* alternate suggestion, broadening the common idea that he had a "change of heart" around the time of 1984 and Animal Farm?
> > > > > > > "Common idea?"
> > > > > > > Maybe he didn't, really.
> > > > > > > "That's hardly likely."
> > > > > > > What is the particular probability metric that drives such seemingly-uninformed but highly definite suggestions?
> > > > > > "Um?
> > > > > > Like, why would you figure you knew better than other people about a topic they were perhaps better-informed about?
> > > > > Is it more like you're really set on disseminating a "canard" to a particular purpose, and an alternate conjecture
> > > > > (or one which is really not conjecture at all) shows you up?
> > > > Yeah, I really do think so. "A. Militia" is something ordered to suit in some to-me-obscure context, and hardly adequate
> > > > as regards discussing Orwell's Spain experience or the trajectory of the historical events themselves. It seems like
> > > > a "hurdy-gurdy" of a sort of sinister character.
> > > It's like it's a "4chan" routine or something.
> > "Maybe it is."
> > Well, the facts of Orwell's years in Spain are well-enough known separately from your "can't-miss routine", though.
> > Its flaws show through more easily than you think.
> That would be my "presentiment" on the topic, anyhow.

"Do you mean 'prescience'?"
This sounds like hair-splitting, somehow.

On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 13:43:19 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
(in article<ef568055-6fe1-4cbf-bfb0-1d94eeb6be8fn@googlegroups.com>):

> On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:20:39 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:14:43 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, October 11, 2022 at 12:34:25 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 1:59:16 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 2:42:23 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 9:46:50 PM UTC-7, Robert Woodward wrote:
> > > > > > > In article<0053de6a-458f-456f...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > > > Jeffrey Rubard <jeffreyda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 6, 2022 at 3:40:20 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 2:23:35 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 05 Oct 2022 11:02:05 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@outlook.com>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 15:40:34 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> > > > > > > > > > > (in article<07be0792-6f9c-42da...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as much to me,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though, so maybe I don't know enough here.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daughter*, but I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not sure, I guess.)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is pretty obvious that your explanation of Orwell's Spain
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years is "misdirective", though.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ("Was Abraham Lincoln in the 'Abraham Lincoln Brigade'?" kinda
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stuff.)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "What about *Burmese Days*?"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was not 100% important for me, no.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > *Such, Such Were the Joys* was another good one, though.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > And I don't know that you would think *Down and Out in Paris and
> > > > > > > > > > > > London* was "pluted", but I liked that one too as a preteen.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I’ve read that, but I haven’t read Road to Wagon Pier yet.
> > > > > > > > > > I haven't read that one either but I >HAVE< read The Road to Wigan
> > > > > > > > > > Pier (both halves of the book - the second is REALLY bleak) though in
> > > > > > > > > > my opinion it wasn't as good as Homage to Catalonia or Nineteen
> > > > > > > > > > Eighty-Four (the correct spelling - NOT the number dammit!)
> > > > > > > > > Well, there was an Orwell before the dystopian science fiction, and what
> > > > > > > > > he was was a "major adherent" of the Independent Labour Party (which
> > > > > > > > > he formally quit at some point in the... 1930s?) It was as a British
> > > > > > > > > socialist
> > > > > > > > > of an anti-Leninist tenor that he was "working with" POUM groups in Spain,
> > > > > > > > > "opposite to" American CPUSA members who joined with the PCE as
> > > > > > > > > part of the "Abraham Lincoln Brigade".
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "Ahem."
> > > > > > > > > Those are, uh, the facts of the matter.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think Hemingway was in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, but I'm not sure.
> > > > > > > He was a reporter for a newspaper syndicate, North America Newspaper
> > > > > > > Alliance (acquired by United Feature Syndicate in 1972).
> > > > > > Oh, yeah, sure.
> > > > > "And Orwell was..."
> > > > > A leading light of the UK social-democratic left? Or are we "high" right now?
> > > > "I don't think so."
> > > > Could you offer a *plausible* alternate suggestion, broadening the common idea that he had a "change of heart" around the time of 1984 and Animal Farm?
> > > > "Common idea?"
> > > > Maybe he didn't, really.
> > > > "That's hardly likely."
> > > > What is the particular probability metric that drives such seemingly-uninformed but highly definite suggestions?
> > > "Um?
> > > Like, why would you figure you knew better than other people about a topic they were perhaps better-informed about?
> > Is it more like you're really set on disseminating a "canard" to a particular purpose, and an alternate conjecture
> > (or one which is really not conjecture at all) shows you up?
>
> Yeah, I really do think so. "A. Militia" is something ordered to suit in some to-me-obscure context, and hardly adequate
> as regards discussing Orwell's Spain experience or the trajectory of the historical events themselves. It seems like
> a "hurdy-gurdy" of a sort of sinister character.

"Orwell fought in a militia in Spain"
"Which militia?"
"His militia was the POUM's"

That's how the grammar works.

Now, I've read his negative review of a ghost-like novel by
Graham Green and it made me curious so I read it. It's
just not the sort of stuff that Orwell likes.

On Wed, 19 Oct 2022 22:15:25 -0700, Pluted Pup wrote
(in article<0001HW.290110ED00379A5E30F4D538F@news.giganews.com>):

> On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 13:43:19 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> (in article<ef568055-6fe1-4cbf-bfb0-1d94eeb6be8fn@googlegroups.com>):
>
> > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:20:39 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 2:14:43 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, October 11, 2022 at 12:34:25 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 1:59:16 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 2:42:23 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote

> > > > > > > On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 9:46:50 PM UTC-7, Robert Woodward
rote:
> > > > > > > > In article<0053de6a-458f-456f...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > > > > Jeffrey Rubard <jeffreyda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 6, 2022 at 3:40:20 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey Ruba
d wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 2:23:35 PM UTC-7, The Horny
Goat wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 05 Oct 2022 11:02:05 -0700, Pluted Pup <plut...@ou
look.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 02 Oct 2022 15:40:34 -0700, Jeffrey Rubard wrote
> > > > > > > > > > > > (in article<07be0792-6f9c-42da...@googlegroups.com>):
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Keep the Aspidistra Flying* was about as mu
h to me,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though, so maybe I don't know enough here.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (I always say I never read *A Clergyman's Daug
ter*, but I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not sure, I guess.)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is pretty obvious that your explanation of Or
ell's Spain
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years is "misdirective", though.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ("Was Abraham Lincoln in the 'Abraham Lincoln Br
gade'?" kinda
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stuff.)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "What about *Burmese Days*?"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was not 100% important for me, no.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Such, Such Were the Joys* was another good one, tho
gh.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > And I don't know that you would think *Down and Out in
Paris and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > London* was "pluted", but I liked that one too as a pr
teen.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I´ve read that, but I haven´t read Road to Wagon Pie
yet.
> > > > > > > > > > > I haven't read that one either but I >HAVE< read The Road
to Wigan
> > > > > > > > > > > Pier (both halves of the book - the second is REALLY bleak
though in
> > > > > > > > > > > my opinion it wasn't as good as Homage to Catalonia or Nin
teen
> > > > > > > > > > > Eighty-Four (the correct spelling - NOT the number dammit!

> > > > > > > > > > Well, there was an Orwell before the dystopian science ficti
n, and what
> > > > > > > > > > he was was a "major adherent" of the Independent Labour Part
(which
> > > > > > > > > > he formally quit at some point in the... 1930s?) It was as a
British
> > > > > > > > > > socialist
> > > > > > > > > > of an anti-Leninist tenor that he was "working with" POUM gr
ups in Spain,
> > > > > > > > > > "opposite to" American CPUSA members who joined with the PCE
as
> > > > > > > > > > part of the "Abraham Lincoln Brigade".
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "Ahem."
> > > > > > > > > > Those are, uh, the facts of the matter.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I think Hemingway was in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, but I'm
ot sure.
> > > > > > > > He was a reporter for a newspaper syndicate, North America Newsp
per
> > > > > > > > Alliance (acquired by United Feature Syndicate in 1972).
> > > > > > > Oh, yeah, sure.
> > > > > > "And Orwell was..."
> > > > > > A leading light of the UK social-democratic left? Or are we "high" r
ght now?
> > > > > "I don't think so."
> > > > > Could you offer a *plausible* alternate suggestion, broadening the com
on idea that he had a "change of heart" around the time of 1984 and Animal Farm?
> > > > > "Common idea?"
> > > > > Maybe he didn't, really.
> > > > > "That's hardly likely."
> > > > > What is the particular probability metric that drives such seemingly-u
informed but highly definite suggestions?
> > > > "Um?
> > > > Like, why would you figure you knew better than other people about a top
c they were perhaps better-informed about?
> > > Is it more like you're really set on disseminating a "canard" to a particu
ar purpose, and an alternate conjecture
> > > (or one which is really not conjecture at all) shows you up?
> >
> > Yeah, I really do think so. "A. Militia" is something ordered to suit in som
to-me-obscure context, and hardly adequate
> > as regards discussing Orwell's Spain experience or the trajectory of the his
orical events themselves. It seems like
> > a "hurdy-gurdy" of a sort of sinister character.
>
> "Orwell fought in a militia in Spain"
> "Which militia?"
> "His militia was the POUM's"
>
> That's how the grammar works.
>
> Now, I've read his negative review of a ghost-like novel by
> Graham Green and it made me curious so I read it. It's
> just not the sort of stuff that Orwell likes.

Not a Ghost Novel, but a Mystery, that had a ghost-like element
in it.