On 6/30/2022 12:38 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Jun 29, 2022 at 9:50:37 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 03:24:50 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
>> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 01:40:42 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
>>>> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> BTR1701 <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 17:16:53 -0400, shawn
>>>>>>> <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 15:35:03 -0500, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2022 at 1:13:29 PM PDT, "bruce bowser" <bruce2bowser@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Former President Donald Trump lunged for the steering wheel and
>>>>>> grabbed his
>>>>>>>>>> driver after being told that he would not be going to the Capitol
>>>> with his
>>>>>>>>>> supporters after his rally on Jan. 6. "
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> NPR - June 28, 2022
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.npr.org/2022/06/28/1108301900/witness-recalls-trump-lunging-for-the-wheel-when-told-he-couldnt-go-to-the-capit
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is a lie. It's not physically possible for the protectee in
>>>> the back of
>>>>>>>>> the Beast to grab the steering wheel.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I had that question myself but she is reporting what she heard Mr
>>>>>>>> Onato say so it is possible that Trump did try to reach forward as
>>>>>>>> though he were going for the steering wheel and that got retold as him
>>>>>>>> actually reaching for and grabbing the steering wheel. Which wouldn't
>>>>>>>> be too surprising as people often enhance events when retelling what
>>>>>>>> happened.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ah, I missed this. The vehicle in question wasn't the beast but a SUV.
>>>>>>> So he would have been easily able to reach the steering wheel if he so
>>>>>>> wished.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So either way, the NPR story was a lie.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was her telling a story second hand in her actual testimony. The NPR
>>>>> story is not a lie, even if the story appears difficult to believe.
>>>>
>>>> NPR did what a number of other media outlets did and are still doing
>>>> today and made the mistake of thinking this was with the Beast, the
>>>> stretch limo that the President often uses for formal events.
>>>
>>> I thought the claim was that it was reported as a first-hand and not a
>>> second-hand account, which would have been a lie. I listened to
>>> testimony on NPR but I didn't hear NPR report on which vehicle it was.
>>
>> Hutchinson says she heard the story from Tony Ornato, who was
>> supposedly in the SUV.
>>
>>> I can't say I've ever heard it called "the Beast" till this thread.
>>
>> Seems many stories are either referring to the vehicle (the SUV) as
>> either the Beast or as a limousine (which would be the beast).
>
> In Secret Service parlance,

Who gives a flying fuck. Trump being prosecuted doesn't hang on his
choking a security guard. Trump pulling a Charles Manson and directing
people to kill the VP seems like a good place to start. I'm sorry, I
shouldn't mention this, I know you don't have the fucking balls to talk
about it. What a tease I am!

On 6/30/2022 12:40 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Jun 29, 2022 at 10:25:12 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>
>> On 6/29/2022 7:12 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>> On 6/28/2022 6:54 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>> Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>>>>>> atropos@mac.com wrote:
>>>>>>> Someone pretending to be "bruce bowser" wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Former President Donald Trump lunged for the steering wheel and grabbed
>>>>>>>> his driver after being told that he would not be going to the Capitol with
>>>>>>>> his supporters after his rally on Jan. 6. "
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is a lie. It's not physically possible for the protectee in the back of
>>>>>>> the Beast to grab the steering wheel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I really don't have time for this nonsense, but just for giggles, I
>>>>>> looked up
>>>>>> what the inside of the "The Beast" is like.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The President sits at the back facing forward behind the passenger seat (No,
>>>>>> he doesn't get to choose that. There is a specific reason for that.).
>>>> A Secret
>>>>>> service agent sits facing him and his guests are either facing him or right
>>>>>> next to him. In front of the rear-facing seats is an armored partition
>>>>>> separating the drivers and the back of the limo that cannot be opened
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> a key and special request.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Read that last sentence again and then read her claims.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes. I've driven the Beast and no way anyone in back could lunge forward
>>>>> and grab the wheel. In addition to the partition, there's an equipment rack
>>>>> containing radios and spare ammo mags that would make grabbing the wheel
>>>>> impossible even if the partition was lowered. The wheel could be grabbed by
>>>>> someone in the front passenger seat-- typically the detail leader-- but no
>>>>> president ever rides there.
>>>>>
>>>> They weren't in the Beast, but a regular SUV. The driver and Engel were
>>>> in front, the Pres in the seat behind.
>>>
>>> Is there a partition or not?
>>>
>> No, you can see the vehicle in video taken as they were driving away.
>> It's just an ordinary SUV.
>
> There's nothing ordinary about that SUV whatsoever.
>
> Hint: It weighs more than 15,000 pounds.
>
> A normal Chevy Suburban weighs on average only 5800 lbs.

Holy fuck that's interesting.

On 6/29/2022 10:44 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Jun 29, 2022 at 7:13:08 PM PDT, "super70s" <super70s@super70s.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> In article <IrCdnarwZdxS9CH_nZ2dnUU7-dOdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Jun 29, 2022 at 5:21:42 AM PDT, "super70s" <super70s@super70s.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > This Ornato guy didn't come up through the ranks of the Secret Service
>>> > like all the other agents
>>>
>>> That's completely false. Ornato was an agent for decades, long before Trump
>>> came on the scene.
>>
>> He only got a job regularly guarding Trump at the personal behest of
>> Trump. If that hadn't happened he would've been on some other assignment.
>>
>> Normally presidents don't bother to pick and choose who their SS agents
>> are, they have more important things to worry about.
>
> Not true at all. Presidents more often than not request the detail leader of
> their campaign detail to transition to the presidential detail when they win.
> Clinton did it with Larry Cockell, Bush did it with Nick Trotta, and Obama did
> it with Joe Clancy.
>
> You speak as if you know what you're talking about but you're actually just
> pulling nonsense out of your ass.

More horseshit. Super was talking about "agents" and you're talking
about detail leader as in one agent. I suppose you could get the
benefit of the doubt here about picking "any agents" but you sure as
fuck don't deserve it so I'm going to say you were being stupid or
lying. You pick.

On 6/29/2022 10:46 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Jun 29, 2022 at 8:06:57 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 01:40:42 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
>> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> BTR1701 <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 17:16:53 -0400, shawn
>>>>> <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 15:35:03 -0500, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2022 at 1:13:29 PM PDT, "bruce bowser" <bruce2bowser@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Former President Donald Trump lunged for the steering wheel and
>>>> grabbed his
>>>>>>>> driver after being told that he would not be going to the Capitol with his
>>>>>>>> supporters after his rally on Jan. 6. "
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> NPR - June 28, 2022
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.npr.org/2022/06/28/1108301900/witness-recalls-trump-lunging-for-the-wheel-when-told-he-couldnt-go-to-the-capit
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is a lie. It's not physically possible for the protectee in the back of
>>>>>>> the Beast to grab the steering wheel.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had that question myself but she is reporting what she heard Mr
>>>>>> Onato say so it is possible that Trump did try to reach forward as
>>>>>> though he were going for the steering wheel and that got retold as him
>>>>>> actually reaching for and grabbing the steering wheel. Which wouldn't
>>>>>> be too surprising as people often enhance events when retelling what
>>>>>> happened.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah, I missed this. The vehicle in question wasn't the beast but a SUV.
>>>>> So he would have been easily able to reach the steering wheel if he so
>>>>> wished.
>>>>
>>>> So either way, the NPR story was a lie.
>>>
>>> It was her telling a story second hand in her actual testimony. The NPR
>>> story is not a lie, even if the story appears difficult to believe.
>>
>> NPR did what a number of other media outlets did and are still doing
>> today and made the mistake of thinking this was with the Beast, the
>> stretch limo that the President often uses for formal events. Instead
>> this was a SUV. Probably still an enhanced vehicle but something more
>> on the lines of a SUV that one of us might buy
>
> That SUV is *wildly* different than any one you might buy.

True, it's been customized just like a million other vehicles have been
customized, You could easily have one made if you had the dough. Elon
Musk could have a hundred of them if he wanted.

Will you ever stop spewing horseshit? I guess not.

On 6/29/2022 8:22 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Jun 28, 2022 at 3:58:26 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>
>> On 6/28/2022 3:49 PM, Neill Massello wrote:
>>> On 2022-06-28 at 14:13:29 MDT, "bruce bowser" <bruce2bowser@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Former President Donald Trump lunged for the steering wheel and grabbed his
>>>> driver after being told that he would not be going to the Capitol with his
>>>> supporters after his rally on Jan. 6. "
>>>>
>>>> NPR - June 28, 2022
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> https://www.npr.org/2022/06/28/1108301900/witness-recalls-trump-lunging-for-the-wheel-when-told-he-couldnt-go-to-the-capit
>>>
>>> "Witness recalls being told . . ."
>>>
>>> That's called hearsay. It might be true, but it's a shabby way to conduct a
>>> formal Congressional hearing.
>>>
>> The SS agent to whom it happened was right there when she was told that.
>> He didn't refute or correct what she testified to.
>
> "And then I was told by this guy who's sister's boyfriend heard from this dude
> that his cousin saw Trump jump on the hood of the Beast like TJ Hooker and
> started yelling "I'm a badass mofo!"

That's good sarcasm. Shows how scared shitless you are of the facts.
Have you tried actual begging, you might get more traction with that.

Hope this helps.

On 6/29/2022 9:36 PM, A Friend wrote:
> In article <t9j0qg$1m9if$1@dont-email.me>, Adam H. Kerman
> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>> On 6/28/2022 6:54 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>> Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>>>>> atropos@mac.com wrote:
>>>>>> Someone pretending to be "bruce bowser" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Former President Donald Trump lunged for the steering wheel and grabbed
>>>>>>> his driver after being told that he would not be going to the Capitol
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> his supporters after his rally on Jan. 6. "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a lie. It's not physically possible for the protectee in the
>>>>>> back of
>>>>>> the Beast to grab the steering wheel.
>>>>>
>>>>> I really don't have time for this nonsense, but just for giggles, I
>>>>> looked up
>>>>> what the inside of the "The Beast" is like.
>>>>>
>>>>> The President sits at the back facing forward behind the passenger seat
>>>>> (No,
>>>>> he doesn't get to choose that. There is a specific reason for that.).
>>> A Secret
>>>>> service agent sits facing him and his guests are either facing him or
>>>>> right
>>>>> next to him. In front of the rear-facing seats is an armored partition
>>>>> separating the drivers and the back of the limo that cannot be opened
>>>>> without
>>>>> a key and special request.
>>>>>
>>>>> Read that last sentence again and then read her claims.
>>>>
>>>> Yes. I've driven the Beast and no way anyone in back could lunge forward
>>>> and grab the wheel. In addition to the partition, there's an equipment rack
>>>> containing radios and spare ammo mags that would make grabbing the wheel
>>>> impossible even if the partition was lowered. The wheel could be grabbed by
>>>> someone in the front passenger seat-- typically the detail leader-- but no
>>>> president ever rides there.
>>>>
>>> They weren't in the Beast, but a regular SUV. The driver and Engel were
>>> in front, the Pres in the seat behind.
>>
>> Is there a partition or not?
>
>
> I saw a video today in which Trump, as president, was riding shotgun in
> an SUV past the White House.

That's so he can play pocket pool with the driver.

In article <t9hsrp$s3ht$1@solani.org>, suzee@imbris.com wrote:
> On 6/28/2022 9:53 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>> BTR1701 <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>> BTR1701 <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 15:35:03 -0500, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>>>>>>>> This is a lie. It's not physically possible for the protectee in the
>>>>>>>> back of the Beast to grab the steering wheel.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I had that question myself but she is reporting what she heard Mr
>>>>>>> Onato say so it is possible that Trump did try to reach forward as
>>>>>>> though he were going for the steering wheel and that got retold as him
>>>>>>> actually reaching for and grabbing the steering wheel. Which wouldn't
>>>>>>> be too surprising as people often enhance events when retelling what
>>>>>>> happened.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah, I missed this. The vehicle in question wasn't the beast but a SUV.
>>>>>> So he would have been easily able to reach the steering wheel if he so
>>>>>> wished.
>>>>>
>>>>> So either way, the NPR story was a lie.
>>>>
>>>> Not a lie, just a bad assumption.
>>>
>>> Journalists are not in the business of making assumptions. They're supposed
>>> to report verified facts.
>>
>> https://twitter.com/peteralexander/status/1541910389289635841?s=21
>>
>> Starting to sound more and more like a lie every minute.
>
> Or they're lying to cover their asses.

TROLL-O-METER
5* 6* *7
4* *8
3* *9
2* *10
1* | *stuporous
0* -*- *catatonic
* |\ *comatose
* \ *clinical death
* \ *biological death
* _\/ *demonic apparition
* * *damned for all eternity

nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com wrote:
>On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 12:54:08 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>> In article <t9hsrp$s3ht$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>> On 6/28/2022 9:53 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> > BTR1701 <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> >> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>> >>> BTR1701 <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> >>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 17:16:53 -0400, shawn
>>> >>>>> <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 15:35:03 -0500, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>>> >>>>>>> This is a lie. It's not physically possible for the protectee in the
>>> >>>>>>> back of the Beast to grab the steering wheel.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> I had that question myself but she is reporting what she heard Mr
>>> >>>>>> Onato say so it is possible that Trump did try to reach forward as
>>> >>>>>> though he were going for the steering wheel and that got retold as him
>>> >>>>>> actually reaching for and grabbing the steering wheel. Which wouldn't
>>> >>>>>> be too surprising as people often enhance events when retelling what
>>> >>>>>> happened.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Ah, I missed this. The vehicle in question wasn't the beast but a SUV.
>>> >>>>> So he would have been easily able to reach the steering wheel if he so
>>> >>>>> wished.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> So either way, the NPR story was a lie.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Not a lie, just a bad assumption.
>>> >>
>>> >> Journalists are not in the business of making assumptions. They're
>>> >> supposed to report verified facts.
>>> >
>>> > https://twitter.com/peteralexander/status/1541910389289635841?s=21
>>> >
>>> > Starting to sound more and more like a lie every minute.
>>>
>>> Or they're lying to cover their asses.
>>
>>"We must believe the Jan6 hearings! (Unless they say something that
>>contradicts the narrative.)"
>>
>>And why would the agents need to cover their asses? Whether Trump did or
>>did not try and grab the wheel, they're not going to get into trouble
>>for it. The only thing that would put their asses in jeopardy would be
>>to lie before Congress, so if you believe they want to cover their
>>asses, you'd be more inclined to believe them than not.
>
>They may not get in trouble but they clearly should not be talking
>about what their protectee did on their watch. Which is clearly what
>appears to have happened here. That doesn't mean that what was said is
>what actually happened as many people exaggerate when retelling a
>story to make it more exciting or it's just their interpretation of
>what happened.
>
>That said they can say whatever they want now since they aren't under
>oath. It will be interesting to see if they actually do testify or if
>they do what Ginni Thomas appears to be doing. Starting off by saying
>she would love to come testify before the committee and now her lawyer
>is speaking for her saying there doesn't appear to be any reason for
>her to testify.

The fact that they asked this woman instead of the people who were actually
there is all one needs to know. This commitee is banana republic bullshit.

--
Let's go Brandon!

On 6/29/2022 10:40 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Jun 29, 2022 at 10:25:12 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>
>> On 6/29/2022 7:12 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>> On 6/28/2022 6:54 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>> Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>>>>>> atropos@mac.com wrote:
>>>>>>> Someone pretending to be "bruce bowser" wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Former President Donald Trump lunged for the steering wheel and grabbed
>>>>>>>> his driver after being told that he would not be going to the Capitol with
>>>>>>>> his supporters after his rally on Jan. 6. "
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is a lie. It's not physically possible for the protectee in the back of
>>>>>>> the Beast to grab the steering wheel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I really don't have time for this nonsense, but just for giggles, I
>>>>>> looked up
>>>>>> what the inside of the "The Beast" is like.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The President sits at the back facing forward behind the passenger seat (No,
>>>>>> he doesn't get to choose that. There is a specific reason for that.).
>>>> A Secret
>>>>>> service agent sits facing him and his guests are either facing him or right
>>>>>> next to him. In front of the rear-facing seats is an armored partition
>>>>>> separating the drivers and the back of the limo that cannot be opened
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> a key and special request.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Read that last sentence again and then read her claims.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes. I've driven the Beast and no way anyone in back could lunge forward
>>>>> and grab the wheel. In addition to the partition, there's an equipment rack
>>>>> containing radios and spare ammo mags that would make grabbing the wheel
>>>>> impossible even if the partition was lowered. The wheel could be grabbed by
>>>>> someone in the front passenger seat-- typically the detail leader-- but no
>>>>> president ever rides there.
>>>>>
>>>> They weren't in the Beast, but a regular SUV. The driver and Engel were
>>>> in front, the Pres in the seat behind.
>>>
>>> Is there a partition or not?
>>>
>> No, you can see the vehicle in video taken as they were driving away.
>> It's just an ordinary SUV.
>
> There's nothing ordinary about that SUV whatsoever.
>
> Hint: It weighs more than 15,000 pounds.
>
> A normal Chevy Suburban weighs on average only 5800 lbs.
>
>
Well, reinforced yeah. But I meant its appearance.

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>On Jun 29, 2022 at 10:25:12 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>On 6/29/2022 7:12 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:

>>>>>. . .

>>>>They weren't in the Beast, but a regular SUV. The driver and Engel were
>>>>in front, the Pres in the seat behind.

>>>Is there a partition or not?

>>No, you can see the vehicle in video taken as they were driving away.
>>It's just an ordinary SUV.

>There's nothing ordinary about that SUV whatsoever.

>Hint: It weighs more than 15,000 pounds.

>A normal Chevy Suburban weighs on average only 5800 lbs.

Once you take the armoured package upgrade, it's no longer affordable to
request the extra cupholders modification.

On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 10:24:39 AM UTC-4, suzeeq wrote:
> On 6/29/2022 10:40 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> > On Jun 29, 2022 at 10:25:12 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <su...@imbris.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 6/29/2022 7:12 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> >>> suzeeq <su...@imbris.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 6/28/2022 6:54 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> >>>>> Ubiquitous <web...@polaris.net> wrote:
> >>>>>> atr...@mac.com wrote:
> >>>>>>> Someone pretending to be "bruce bowser" wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "Former President Donald Trump lunged for the steering wheel and grabbed
> >>>>>>>> his driver after being told that he would not be going to the Capitol with
> >>>>>>>> his supporters after his rally on Jan. 6. "
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This is a lie. It's not physically possible for the protectee in the back of
> >>>>>>> the Beast to grab the steering wheel.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I really don't have time for this nonsense, but just for giggles, I
> >>>>>> looked up
> >>>>>> what the inside of the "The Beast" is like.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The President sits at the back facing forward behind the passenger seat (No,
> >>>>>> he doesn't get to choose that. There is a specific reason for that.).
> >>>> A Secret
> >>>>>> service agent sits facing him and his guests are either facing him or right
> >>>>>> next to him. In front of the rear-facing seats is an armored partition
> >>>>>> separating the drivers and the back of the limo that cannot be opened
> >>>>>> without
> >>>>>> a key and special request.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Read that last sentence again and then read her claims.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yes. I've driven the Beast and no way anyone in back could lunge forward
> >>>>> and grab the wheel. In addition to the partition, there's an equipment rack
> >>>>> containing radios and spare ammo mags that would make grabbing the wheel
> >>>>> impossible even if the partition was lowered. The wheel could be grabbed by
> >>>>> someone in the front passenger seat-- typically the detail leader-- but no
> >>>>> president ever rides there.
> >>>>>
> >>>> They weren't in the Beast, but a regular SUV. The driver and Engel were
> >>>> in front, the Pres in the seat behind.
> >>>
> >>> Is there a partition or not?
> >>>
> >> No, you can see the vehicle in video taken as they were driving away.
> >> It's just an ordinary SUV.
> >
> > There's nothing ordinary about that SUV whatsoever.
> >
> > Hint: It weighs more than 15,000 pounds.
> >
> > A normal Chevy Suburban weighs on average only 5800 lbs.
>
> Well, reinforced yeah. But I meant its appearance.

The point is BTR's information is off.

On 6/30/2022 9:27 AM, bruce bowser wrote:
> On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 10:24:39 AM UTC-4, suzeeq wrote:
>> On 6/29/2022 10:40 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> On Jun 29, 2022 at 10:25:12 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <su...@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/29/2022 7:12 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>>> suzeeq <su...@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/28/2022 6:54 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>> Ubiquitous <web...@polaris.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> atr...@mac.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Someone pretending to be "bruce bowser" wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Former President Donald Trump lunged for the steering wheel and grabbed
>>>>>>>>>> his driver after being told that he would not be going to the Capitol with
>>>>>>>>>> his supporters after his rally on Jan. 6. "
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is a lie. It's not physically possible for the protectee in the back of
>>>>>>>>> the Beast to grab the steering wheel.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I really don't have time for this nonsense, but just for giggles, I
>>>>>>>> looked up
>>>>>>>> what the inside of the "The Beast" is like.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The President sits at the back facing forward behind the passenger seat (No,
>>>>>>>> he doesn't get to choose that. There is a specific reason for that.).
>>>>>> A Secret
>>>>>>>> service agent sits facing him and his guests are either facing him or right
>>>>>>>> next to him. In front of the rear-facing seats is an armored partition
>>>>>>>> separating the drivers and the back of the limo that cannot be opened
>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>> a key and special request.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Read that last sentence again and then read her claims.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes. I've driven the Beast and no way anyone in back could lunge forward
>>>>>>> and grab the wheel. In addition to the partition, there's an equipment rack
>>>>>>> containing radios and spare ammo mags that would make grabbing the wheel
>>>>>>> impossible even if the partition was lowered. The wheel could be grabbed by
>>>>>>> someone in the front passenger seat-- typically the detail leader-- but no
>>>>>>> president ever rides there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> They weren't in the Beast, but a regular SUV. The driver and Engel were
>>>>>> in front, the Pres in the seat behind.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a partition or not?
>>>>>
>>>> No, you can see the vehicle in video taken as they were driving away.
>>>> It's just an ordinary SUV.
>>>
>>> There's nothing ordinary about that SUV whatsoever.
>>>
>>> Hint: It weighs more than 15,000 pounds.
>>>
>>> A normal Chevy Suburban weighs on average only 5800 lbs.
>>
>> Well, reinforced yeah. But I meant its appearance.
>
> The point is BTR's information is off.
>
Not necessarily.

On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 9:40:46 PM UTC-4, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >shawn <nanof...@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 17:16:53 -0400, shawn
> >> <nanof...@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 15:35:03 -0500, BTR1701 <atr...@mac.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Jun 28, 2022 at 1:13:29 PM PDT, "bruce bowser" <bruce2...@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> "Former President Donald Trump lunged for the steering wheel and
> >grabbed his
> >>>>> driver after being told that he would not be going to the Capitol with his
> >>>>> supporters after his rally on Jan. 6. "
> >>>>>
> >>>>> NPR - June 28, 2022
> >>>>> --
> >>>>>
> >https://www.npr.org/2022/06/28/1108301900/witness-recalls-trump-lunging-for-the-wheel-when-told-he-couldnt-go-to-the-capit
> >>>>
> >>>> This is a lie. It's not physically possible for the protectee in the back of
> >>>> the Beast to grab the steering wheel.
> >>>
> >>> I had that question myself but she is reporting what she heard Mr
> >>> Onato say so it is possible that Trump did try to reach forward as
> >>> though he were going for the steering wheel and that got retold as him
> >>> actually reaching for and grabbing the steering wheel. Which wouldn't
> >>> be too surprising as people often enhance events when retelling what
> >>> happened.
> >>
> >> Ah, I missed this. The vehicle in question wasn't the beast but a SUV.
> >> So he would have been easily able to reach the steering wheel if he so
> >> wished.
> >
> >So either way, the NPR story was a lie.
>
> It was her telling a story second hand in her actual testimony. The NPR
> story is not a lie, even if the story appears difficult to believe.

Look, extreme-high-profile lying to fed investigators is no situation that anyone wants to be in. The clock is ticking for Agents Bob Engel and Tony Ornato to call 1-800-ADMIT-IT

In article <t9ki51$1uv30$2@dont-email.me>,
"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> >On Jun 29, 2022 at 10:25:12 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
> >>On 6/29/2022 7:12 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> >>>suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>. . .
>
> >>>>They weren't in the Beast, but a regular SUV. The driver and Engel were
> >>>>in front, the Pres in the seat behind.
>
> >>>Is there a partition or not?
>
> >>No, you can see the vehicle in video taken as they were driving away.
> >>It's just an ordinary SUV.
>
> >There's nothing ordinary about that SUV whatsoever.
>
> >Hint: It weighs more than 15,000 pounds.
>
> >A normal Chevy Suburban weighs on average only 5800 lbs.
>
> Once you take the armoured package upgrade, it's no longer affordable to
> request the extra cupholders modification.

That's actually true, but it's not the armor that edges out the
cupholders, nor the budget.

One of the most frustrating things about being the TS agent (driver) is
there's nowhere to put your coffee cup in the morning. That, and all the
backing up without use of a rearview mirror.

On 6/30/2022 10:18 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <t9ki51$1uv30$2@dont-email.me>,
> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>> On Jun 29, 2022 at 10:25:12 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>> On 6/29/2022 7:12 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>>> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> . . .
>>
>>>>>> They weren't in the Beast, but a regular SUV. The driver and Engel were
>>>>>> in front, the Pres in the seat behind.
>>
>>>>> Is there a partition or not?
>>
>>>> No, you can see the vehicle in video taken as they were driving away.
>>>> It's just an ordinary SUV.
>>
>>> There's nothing ordinary about that SUV whatsoever.
>>
>>> Hint: It weighs more than 15,000 pounds.
>>
>>> A normal Chevy Suburban weighs on average only 5800 lbs.
>>
>> Once you take the armoured package upgrade, it's no longer affordable to
>> request the extra cupholders modification.
>
> That's actually true, but it's not the armor that edges out the
> cupholders, nor the budget.
>
> One of the most frustrating things about being the TS agent (driver) is
> there's nowhere to put your coffee cup in the morning. That, and all the
> backing up without use of a rearview mirror.
>
Would it have been cheaper to armor up a Hummer? Seems like it's got a
lot of the features needed.

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>On Jun 29, 2022 at 10:25:12 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>>On 6/29/2022 7:12 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>>>suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:

>>>>>>>. . .

>>>>>>They weren't in the Beast, but a regular SUV. The driver and Engel were
>>>>>>in front, the Pres in the seat behind.

>>>>>Is there a partition or not?

>>>>No, you can see the vehicle in video taken as they were driving away.
>>>>It's just an ordinary SUV.

>>>There's nothing ordinary about that SUV whatsoever.

>>>Hint: It weighs more than 15,000 pounds.

>>>A normal Chevy Suburban weighs on average only 5800 lbs.

>>Once you take the armoured package upgrade, it's no longer affordable to
>>request the extra cupholders modification.

>That's actually true, but it's not the armor that edges out the
>cupholders, nor the budget.

>One of the most frustrating things about being the TS agent (driver) is
>there's nowhere to put your coffee cup in the morning. That, and all the
>backing up without use of a rearview mirror.

No coffee? You should have filed for workman's comp.

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:18:54 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>In article <t9ki51$1uv30$2@dont-email.me>,
> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>> >On Jun 29, 2022 at 10:25:12 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>> >>On 6/29/2022 7:12 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>> >>>suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>. . .
>>
>> >>>>They weren't in the Beast, but a regular SUV. The driver and Engel were
>> >>>>in front, the Pres in the seat behind.
>>
>> >>>Is there a partition or not?
>>
>> >>No, you can see the vehicle in video taken as they were driving away.
>> >>It's just an ordinary SUV.
>>
>> >There's nothing ordinary about that SUV whatsoever.
>>
>> >Hint: It weighs more than 15,000 pounds.
>>
>> >A normal Chevy Suburban weighs on average only 5800 lbs.
>>
>> Once you take the armoured package upgrade, it's no longer affordable to
>> request the extra cupholders modification.
>
>That's actually true, but it's not the armor that edges out the
>cupholders, nor the budget.
>
>One of the most frustrating things about being the TS agent (driver) is
>there's nowhere to put your coffee cup in the morning. That, and all the
>backing up without use of a rearview mirror.

Why don't they use one of camera rearview mirrors? They use them in
many of the super cars because there's no way a normal rear view
mirror would show anything but with the rear facing camera the driver
can clearly see behind the vehicle in the rear view mirror.

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 13:29:37 -0400, shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:18:54 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <t9ki51$1uv30$2@dont-email.me>,
>> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>> >On Jun 29, 2022 at 10:25:12 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>> >>On 6/29/2022 7:12 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>> >>>suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >>>>>. . .
>>>
>>> >>>>They weren't in the Beast, but a regular SUV. The driver and Engel were
>>> >>>>in front, the Pres in the seat behind.
>>>
>>> >>>Is there a partition or not?
>>>
>>> >>No, you can see the vehicle in video taken as they were driving away.
>>> >>It's just an ordinary SUV.
>>>
>>> >There's nothing ordinary about that SUV whatsoever.
>>>
>>> >Hint: It weighs more than 15,000 pounds.
>>>
>>> >A normal Chevy Suburban weighs on average only 5800 lbs.
>>>
>>> Once you take the armoured package upgrade, it's no longer affordable to
>>> request the extra cupholders modification.
>>
>>That's actually true, but it's not the armor that edges out the
>>cupholders, nor the budget.
>>
>>One of the most frustrating things about being the TS agent (driver) is
>>there's nowhere to put your coffee cup in the morning. That, and all the
>>backing up without use of a rearview mirror.
>
>Why don't they use one of camera rearview mirrors? They use them in
>many of the super cars because there's no way a normal rear view
>mirror would show anything but with the rear facing camera the driver
>can clearly see behind the vehicle in the rear view mirror.

BTR is retired now and older (like me). A lot of us still aren't used to
these cameras. Hell, I still hate electric windows. hahaha

The rear-view mirror thing reminds me of the 70s movie, The Gumball Rally
when the Raul Julia rips the rear view mirror off his windshield and says
"What's behind me... is not important!".

EGK <memyself@null.net> wrote:
>Thu, 30 Jun 2022 13:29:37 -0400, shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:18:54 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>On Jun 29, 2022 at 10:25:12 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>>>>On 6/29/2022 7:12 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>>>>>suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>. . .

>>>>>>>>They weren't in the Beast, but a regular SUV. The driver and Engel were
>>>>>>>>in front, the Pres in the seat behind.

>>>>>>>Is there a partition or not?

>>>>>>No, you can see the vehicle in video taken as they were driving away.
>>>>>>It's just an ordinary SUV.

>>>>>There's nothing ordinary about that SUV whatsoever.

>>>>>Hint: It weighs more than 15,000 pounds.

>>>>>A normal Chevy Suburban weighs on average only 5800 lbs.

>>>>Once you take the armoured package upgrade, it's no longer affordable to
>>>>request the extra cupholders modification.

>>>That's actually true, but it's not the armor that edges out the
>>>cupholders, nor the budget.

>>>One of the most frustrating things about being the TS agent (driver) is
>>>there's nowhere to put your coffee cup in the morning. That, and all the
>>>backing up without use of a rearview mirror.

>>Why don't they use one of camera rearview mirrors? They use them in
>>many of the super cars because there's no way a normal rear view
>>mirror would show anything but with the rear facing camera the driver
>>can clearly see behind the vehicle in the rear view mirror.

>BTR is retired now and older (like me). A lot of us still aren't used to
>these cameras. Hell, I still hate electric windows. hahaha

It's not a matter of getting used to them. I'm not going to rely up it
for my whole field of vision. I glance at the video display, but I still
look at the right side and left side mirrors and make sure I swivel my
head around. The camera's field of vision is too limiting and if I ever
got used to it and didn't check the mirrors, I might not see what I need
to see.

>The rear-view mirror thing reminds me of the 70s movie, The Gumball Rally
>when the Raul Julia rips the rear view mirror off his windshield and says
>"What's behind me... is not important!".

He has a point.

In article <59nrbhpcp0g1v1ftuac33ord01k2d0vsb5@4ax.com>,
shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:18:54 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <t9ki51$1uv30$2@dont-email.me>,
> > "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> >
> >> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> >> >On Jun 29, 2022 at 10:25:12 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
> >> >>On 6/29/2022 7:12 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> >> >>>suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >>>>>. . .
> >>
> >> >>>>They weren't in the Beast, but a regular SUV. The driver and Engel were
> >> >>>>in front, the Pres in the seat behind.
> >>
> >> >>>Is there a partition or not?
> >>
> >> >>No, you can see the vehicle in video taken as they were driving away.
> >> >>It's just an ordinary SUV.
> >>
> >> >There's nothing ordinary about that SUV whatsoever.
> >>
> >> >Hint: It weighs more than 15,000 pounds.
> >>
> >> >A normal Chevy Suburban weighs on average only 5800 lbs.
> >>
> >> Once you take the armoured package upgrade, it's no longer affordable to
> >> request the extra cupholders modification.
> >
> >That's actually true, but it's not the armor that edges out the
> >cupholders, nor the budget.
> >
> >One of the most frustrating things about being the TS agent (driver) is
> >there's nowhere to put your coffee cup in the morning. That, and all the
> >backing up without use of a rearview mirror.
>
> Why don't they use one of camera rearview mirrors? They use them in
> many of the super cars because there's no way a normal rear view
> mirror would show anything but with the rear facing camera the driver
> can clearly see behind the vehicle in the rear view mirror.

I'm talking about backing up at speed, running pursuit and evasion
drills. Those rear cameras are shit for anything like that.

In article <t9kom8$1vqfr$1@dont-email.me>,
"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> EGK <memyself@null.net> wrote:
> >Thu, 30 Jun 2022 13:29:37 -0400, shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
> >wrote:
> >>On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:18:54 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> >>>"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> >>>>BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> >>>>>On Jun 29, 2022 at 10:25:12 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>On 6/29/2022 7:12 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> >>>>>>>suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>. . .
>
> >>>>>>>>They weren't in the Beast, but a regular SUV. The driver and Engel
> >>>>>>>>were in front, the Pres in the seat behind.
>
> >>>>>>>Is there a partition or not?
>
> >>>>>>No, you can see the vehicle in video taken as they were driving away.
> >>>>>>It's just an ordinary SUV.
>
> >>>>>There's nothing ordinary about that SUV whatsoever.
>
> >>>>>Hint: It weighs more than 15,000 pounds.
>
> >>>>>A normal Chevy Suburban weighs on average only 5800 lbs.
>
> >>>> Once you take the armoured package upgrade, it's no longer affordable
> >>>> to request the extra cupholders modification.
>
> >>>That's actually true, but it's not the armor that edges out the
> >>>cupholders, nor the budget.
>
> >>>One of the most frustrating things about being the TS agent (driver) is
> >>>there's nowhere to put your coffee cup in the morning. That, and all the
> >>>backing up without use of a rearview mirror.
>
> >>Why don't they use one of camera rearview mirrors? They use them in
> >>many of the super cars because there's no way a normal rear view
> >>mirror would show anything but with the rear facing camera the driver
> >>can clearly see behind the vehicle in the rear view mirror.
>
> >BTR is retired now and older (like me). A lot of us still aren't used to
> >these cameras. Hell, I still hate electric windows. hahaha
>
> It's not a matter of getting used to them. I'm not going to rely up it
> for my whole field of vision. I glance at the video display, but I still
> look at the right side and left side mirrors and make sure I swivel my
> head around. The camera's field of vision is too limiting and if I ever
> got used to it and didn't check the mirrors, I might not see what I need
> to see.

It's also required protocol when backing up the cars in non-emergency
situations for there to be an agent outside guiding the driver. No one's
allowed to back them up by themselves.

On 6/30/2022 10:41 AM, EGK wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 13:29:37 -0400, shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:18:54 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <t9ki51$1uv30$2@dont-email.me>,
>>> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Jun 29, 2022 at 10:25:12 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/29/2022 7:12 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>>>>> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> . . .
>>>>
>>>>>>>> They weren't in the Beast, but a regular SUV. The driver and Engel were
>>>>>>>> in front, the Pres in the seat behind.
>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there a partition or not?
>>>>
>>>>>> No, you can see the vehicle in video taken as they were driving away.
>>>>>> It's just an ordinary SUV.
>>>>
>>>>> There's nothing ordinary about that SUV whatsoever.
>>>>
>>>>> Hint: It weighs more than 15,000 pounds.
>>>>
>>>>> A normal Chevy Suburban weighs on average only 5800 lbs.
>>>>
>>>> Once you take the armoured package upgrade, it's no longer affordable to
>>>> request the extra cupholders modification.
>>>
>>> That's actually true, but it's not the armor that edges out the
>>> cupholders, nor the budget.
>>>
>>> One of the most frustrating things about being the TS agent (driver) is
>>> there's nowhere to put your coffee cup in the morning. That, and all the
>>> backing up without use of a rearview mirror.
>>
>> Why don't they use one of camera rearview mirrors? They use them in
>> many of the super cars because there's no way a normal rear view
>> mirror would show anything but with the rear facing camera the driver
>> can clearly see behind the vehicle in the rear view mirror.
>
> BTR is retired now and older (like me). A lot of us still aren't used to
> these cameras. Hell, I still hate electric windows. hahaha

I love electric windows. Except when I have to go down to car late at
night to raise them when an unexpected thunderstorm rolls through.

> The rear-view mirror thing reminds me of the 70s movie, The Gumball Rally
> when the Raul Julia rips the rear view mirror off his windshield and says
> "What's behind me... is not important!".
>

In article <t9km1m$sh6g$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:

> On 6/30/2022 10:18 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> > In article <t9ki51$1uv30$2@dont-email.me>,
> > "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> >
> >> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> >>> On Jun 29, 2022 at 10:25:12 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 6/29/2022 7:12 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> >>>>> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>>> . . .
> >>
> >>>>>> They weren't in the Beast, but a regular SUV. The driver and Engel
> >>>>>> were in front, the Pres in the seat behind.
> >>
> >>>>> Is there a partition or not?
> >>
> >>>> No, you can see the vehicle in video taken as they were driving away.
> >>>> It's just an ordinary SUV.
> >>
> >>> There's nothing ordinary about that SUV whatsoever.
> >>
> >>> Hint: It weighs more than 15,000 pounds.
> >>
> >>> A normal Chevy Suburban weighs on average only 5800 lbs.
> >>
> >> Once you take the armoured package upgrade, it's no longer affordable to
> >> request the extra cupholders modification.
> >
> > That's actually true, but it's not the armor that edges out the
> > cupholders, nor the budget.
> >
> > One of the most frustrating things about being the TS agent (driver) is
> > there's nowhere to put your coffee cup in the morning. That, and all the
> > backing up without use of a rearview mirror.
> >
> Would it have been cheaper to armor up a Hummer? Seems like it's got a
> lot of the features needed.

Too militaristic looking. The limp-wrists on the White House staff have
a cow over that sort of thing.

The Obama staffers got the vapors over the ERT Team walking across the
complex with their sniper rifles slung over their shoulders, because
tourists outside the fences could see them. They forced the USSS to buy
special bags for them to hide the rifles in whenever they needed to move
from one post to another because visible rifles were just too scary
looking or something.

I was working a VP advance for Cheney in Jordan and when we were staging
the motorcade for the arrival at the airport, the Jordanian military
showed up with a Humvee that had a top-mounted mini-gun and wanted to
know where we wanted it in the motorcade. The staffers about shit
themselves. "We can't have something like that in the motorcade? My god,
what will people think? CNN will crucify us!"

So we had to tell the Jordanians thanks but no thanks. They wanted to
know what countermeasures we had for something like a cement truck
barreling toward the motorcade from a side street and the staffers were
like, "Well, that's what the motorcycle cops are for. They block the
side streets and driveways as the motorcade passes by."

The Jordanians looked at them, then looked at me, and I just shrugged as
if to say, "Do you see what we have to deal with?"

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 18:06:00 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
wrote:

>EGK <memyself@null.net> wrote:
>>Thu, 30 Jun 2022 13:29:37 -0400, shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:18:54 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>>BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>On Jun 29, 2022 at 10:25:12 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>On 6/29/2022 7:12 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>>>>>>suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>>>. . .
>
>>>>>>>>>They weren't in the Beast, but a regular SUV. The driver and Engel were
>>>>>>>>>in front, the Pres in the seat behind.
>
>>>>>>>>Is there a partition or not?
>
>>>>>>>No, you can see the vehicle in video taken as they were driving away.
>>>>>>>It's just an ordinary SUV.
>
>>>>>>There's nothing ordinary about that SUV whatsoever.
>
>>>>>>Hint: It weighs more than 15,000 pounds.
>
>>>>>>A normal Chevy Suburban weighs on average only 5800 lbs.
>
>>>>>Once you take the armoured package upgrade, it's no longer affordable to
>>>>>request the extra cupholders modification.
>
>>>>That's actually true, but it's not the armor that edges out the
>>>>cupholders, nor the budget.
>
>>>>One of the most frustrating things about being the TS agent (driver) is
>>>>there's nowhere to put your coffee cup in the morning. That, and all the
>>>>backing up without use of a rearview mirror.
>
>>>Why don't they use one of camera rearview mirrors? They use them in
>>>many of the super cars because there's no way a normal rear view
>>>mirror would show anything but with the rear facing camera the driver
>>>can clearly see behind the vehicle in the rear view mirror.
>
>>BTR is retired now and older (like me). A lot of us still aren't used to
>>these cameras. Hell, I still hate electric windows. hahaha
>
>It's not a matter of getting used to them. I'm not going to rely up it
>for my whole field of vision. I glance at the video display, but I still
>look at the right side and left side mirrors and make sure I swivel my
>head around. The camera's field of vision is too limiting and if I ever
>got used to it and didn't check the mirrors, I might not see what I need
>to see.

I was mostly kidding. Some years ago my brother got a new SUV and drove
into my driveway. I was watching him try to back up and it was obvious he
was using the camera and trying to get used to it rather than the mirrors.
It was funny as hell. I told him he looked like he was trying to dock the
space shuttle. :)

>>The rear-view mirror thing reminds me of the 70s movie, The Gumball Rally
>>when the Raul Julia rips the rear view mirror off his windshield and says
>>"What's behind me... is not important!".
>
>He has a point.

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 11:20:55 -0700, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:

>On 6/30/2022 10:41 AM, EGK wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 13:29:37 -0400, shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:18:54 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <t9ki51$1uv30$2@dont-email.me>,
>>>> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Jun 29, 2022 at 10:25:12 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/29/2022 7:12 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>>>>>> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> . . .
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They weren't in the Beast, but a regular SUV. The driver and Engel were
>>>>>>>>> in front, the Pres in the seat behind.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is there a partition or not?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, you can see the vehicle in video taken as they were driving away.
>>>>>>> It's just an ordinary SUV.
>>>>>
>>>>>> There's nothing ordinary about that SUV whatsoever.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hint: It weighs more than 15,000 pounds.
>>>>>
>>>>>> A normal Chevy Suburban weighs on average only 5800 lbs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once you take the armoured package upgrade, it's no longer affordable to
>>>>> request the extra cupholders modification.
>>>>
>>>> That's actually true, but it's not the armor that edges out the
>>>> cupholders, nor the budget.
>>>>
>>>> One of the most frustrating things about being the TS agent (driver) is
>>>> there's nowhere to put your coffee cup in the morning. That, and all the
>>>> backing up without use of a rearview mirror.
>>>
>>> Why don't they use one of camera rearview mirrors? They use them in
>>> many of the super cars because there's no way a normal rear view
>>> mirror would show anything but with the rear facing camera the driver
>>> can clearly see behind the vehicle in the rear view mirror.
>>
>> BTR is retired now and older (like me). A lot of us still aren't used to
>> these cameras. Hell, I still hate electric windows. hahaha
>
>I love electric windows. Except when I have to go down to car late at
>night to raise them when an unexpected thunderstorm rolls through.

I've just owned two many cars where they decided to quit on me in the middle
of winter. It's no fun to roll one down when pulling up to an ATM or
something then it fails to go back up again.